dollar some of the names we always talk about end up being names like mcdonald's and nike overall. so it would be something to take a look at. >> canadian pacific? >> no, it should have been colgate. i think there was a typo in there. >> that would never happen around here. thanks for watching "power lunch. dom, thanks for being here. >> "closing bell" starts right now. stocks making a big comeback what's leading the way here's something we haven't said too often, it's the nasdaq and beaten-down tech stocks. the most important hour of trading starts now welcome to "closing bell." i'm sara eisen here's where we stand in the market right now the nasdaq composite has turned green, up 1.2% or so the s&p 500 only down a third of 1% at the lows it was down 83 points so you can see it's been a strong recovery. the dow is still down about a percent. the cyclical groups getting hurt the hardest into today's

session, energy, utilities, materials and industrials. financials aren't having a great day. it's communication services, consumer discretionary and technology that is all green in the s&p the low of the day for the dow is down 742. we're down just about 200, a little more than 200 points right now. we've got a big lineup of guests for you to help break down today's action richard bernstein, helema croft and rashir charma. we'll start with today's market dashboard. mike santoli is here looking at what the credit market is telling us, mike, amid all these recession worries. >> yeah, sara. it's a pretty consistent story no matter what market you look at this wave of economic anxiety washing in overnight, mostly from europe, really pressured our markets. we kind of absorbed it and recovered but still dollar up,

credit market not looking great. the s&p 500 still holding above these lows 3666the closing low. 3636 the nothing to get excited about. this is however you slice it a pretty well defined downtrend there. so until it rallies above that, you're not really talking about much, but it's still probably encouraging to see some traction in the noncyclical parts of the market which have a tremendous amount of market cap it feeds into the idea of exactly how much has been priced in here is a look at high-yield credit spreads, so junk bond risk spreads this is in basis points above treasuries so this is going back about a dozen years. the reason is if i just showed you two years of this, that looks really scary the level this has gotten to when this goes up, there's much more worry about credit worthiness, default risk this was the flash recession in 2020 with covid. here, no recession but an industrial recession globally

and earnings recession, in 2015 and '16 when oil crashed similarly here, we had another growth scare so we're up at these levels that's kind of on the border of a normal financial tightening that the fed wants and something that gets a little out of handin so you'd like to e that calm down. >> so we're gearing up for earnings season and the big question is how much has been discounted into stocks in terms of the weakness we're going to get. dan ives just writing from wedbush, look at micron and tesla, also pretty weak numbers. both stocks are up today. >> i've been talking about micron since last thursday when we got those numbers it was a very kind of a clanging revenue guidance miss. it really was dramatic, a couple billion dollars, and it's gotten some traction on the way up. i don't want to extrapolate from two stocks there's probably plenty of adjustment to the downside that has to happen in the official

numbers. but the fact that the equal weighted s&p is trading below 14 times earnings tells me the market doesn't believe the published numbers. if it did, it probably would not be trading there. >> a lot of that bad news is already in the print. >> and second quarter is not going to be make or break. we want to see the guidance and how much pain was felt but it realliey is, $250 for s&p earnings next year seems too high but it's an art, not a science to figure out what's in the price. >> mike, thank you let's bring in richard bernstein and jim paulsen. rich, you have been pretty negative for a while even last fall on tech you've been right about that is the tide turning, though? are we now going into an environment where it's recessionary or slowdown and you want higher growth stocks? >> so, sara, it's interesting to watch what's going on today. i don't think that the action you're seeing with nasdaq up is

a recession call i think it's rather a call that we're going back to 2018 we can all speculate again if you look at what's there, it's the bubble stocks that are leading the charge again today so, you know, you've mentioned the dollar it's pretty ironic, the most foreign exposed sector is technology we all know the dollar has been strong but yet technology is leading. we know that a lot of technology doesn't do well during a recession. so i think, yes, cyclicals are underperforming, but again you're getting this notion that it's either got to be cyclicals or growth. nobody is talking about defenses which is really the group that works the best if you were worried there was going to be a recession. >> utilities, which group do you like the best? >> staples would be number one number two would be health care, number three, utilities. they're not performing really

well today it's really the bubble stocks that are leading the charge. >> jim, do you agree or do you think it's time for a rethink of tech, given a lot of the bad news has already been factored in and you see it in some of the reactions here we've gotten early to earnings and numbers. >> i just recently turned positive again with growth in tech in general, sara. i think we're going to avoid recession. i think this is more of a mid-cycle slowdown that we're experiencing the key here is in order for the market to rally, it seems to me that the market has to get an e inkling here or a feeling that the fed is about done raising the rate the fed takes its messages from the economy and the bond market. and inflation is saying the fed needs to wind it up. real growth is saying the fed needs to take a pause and

anything from two years to 30 years just gave a 60 basis point rate cut suggesting that bond veg lan tees also think the fed has done enough. i see another 50 basis point rise, maybe 75, and then we could be done for a while. if that's the case, i think we could have an early cycle stock run. get back to early cycle growth stocks, early cycle cyclicals and dump the stocks rich was talking about which have done well this year their relative values are pretty high if you've been there, like rich has, that's been great i'd pat myself on the back and take some profits. >> wow, he went completely the other way as you, rich why do you disagree? >> well, i would say, sara, i think we're too focused on an economic recession i love jim jim and i have known each other for a bazillion years and we're great friends. but as many a senator says, my good friend from minnesota, i

have to disagree with him on >> why not what if we do manage to escape -- what if we do manage to avoid a recession and there's been enough pain the fed takes a pause? >> i think what people are missing, though, is it's pretty much baked in we're going to see a profits recession. not an economic recession but a profits recession as we head toward the end of '22 and into '23. i think that's pretty inevitable i don't think we're going to skirt that i think it's very difficult to skirt a profits recession. but look, if we do and everything is fine and inflation really does go away, then it's 2018 all over again and i agree with jim you'd want to be in tech i just don't think we're going back to 2018 i think the world has changed and portfolios have been very slow to change if we do have a mild recession, inflation is not going to go away we need something that's really going to stymie demand so that we really kill inflation

if we don't, it's just going to be a process every time the economy comes back you're going to see a little more inflation, a little more inflation, a little more inflation. i think that's a very different world than people are used to. >> jim, that is the counterargument. we don't know that inflation has peaked and we don't know how fast it will come down if we manage to avoid recession, the fed is squarely focused on inflation right now. >> well, i think the evidence of inflation rolling over is becoming pretty strong in my view we have lost the entire thrust of commodity prices. industrials are down to their lowest levels in over a year egg prices have rolled over and now energy prices and so the entire commodity thrust is in reverse. cpi, ppi, pce have rolled over for two months, core pce is under a 4% rate. wage inflation is 3.75 in the last four months retail inventories are going to

bring discounts. freight shipping has fallen in half from its recent highs to me it's pretty compelling the biggest thing is break-even rates in the bond market, the one-year break-even rate hit 4% today. that's down from 6% just three months ago that could be back to 2% by the end of summer. i think the economy is slowing, inflation is slowing, the bond market is already telling you this i think the fed will stop pretty soon if they do, if we just take a pause, there's a lot of revaluation that looks pretty attractive here to own in the next several months after a fed pause. >> rich, the final word. you can't deny the fact that we have seen these commodity prices weaken wti is now below 100, 99.68 and down 20% off the highs we've seen it across the commodity space. >> so, sara, my response would be we have to remember inflation is a lagging indicator china has been in lockdown for the past three to six months

and it may be premature to count inflation out. if china comes back and they come out of their hazmat suits and commodity prices stay weak, the worst inflation is probably behind us. i think it's a little premature to make that judgment given they're just coming out of their hazmat suits. >> well, they don't have an inflation problem, you can say that for them. rich, jim, we'll leave it there. two very different sides of the debate, which is playing out in the market today. still ahead, helima croft on whether recession fears will continue to put pressure on oil and commodity prices. plus ruchir sharma sees a big opportunity for overseas investors. the dow is down a little over 200. you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc.

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check out today's stealth mover. it's crocs up 11%. one of the few bright spots on wall street today. they were citing upbeat channel checks and valuation crocs shares have plunged more than 60% this year after being one of the biggest winners during the pandemic. the analyst noting the brand heat is still there with younger consumers. meantime that is a theme today, gig and pandemic stock winners are winners today after being trashed the past year or so.

deirdre bosa is looking at how these stocks hold up names like zoom video and docusign up big. >> they have been trashed this year so it is the most oversold growth names in today's session leading the nasdaq 100, zoom, docusign, datadog have been hit hard since the start of the year now investors are dipping back in just ahead of the earnings parade they're also less sensitive to the big multi nationals that make up the dow. you mentioned the gig economy. check out doordash other big names also doing quite well today and then there's coinbase down 80% year to date that's also up more than 10% or almost 10% in today's session. maybe the cherry on top is that 10-year yield which we watched so closely briefing dipping below 2.8 today. higher rates based on future profits and easing of yields that may be helping to ease the

selling in these names take note of bitcoin, though it has acted like a risk asset and it is less today than some of the other risk names, peaking above 20,000 just in the last hour or so back to you. >> so you've studied and covered a lot of these names during the pandemic the pelotons and docusigns, the ones that had such a big surge who has taken the opportunity of the market downturn to really reposition the business in a way that investors can like? because so many of those names are thought of now to be one-hit wonders. >> it's such a good point, sara. i would say that what they pride themselves on is being so-called best of breed. so they do something specific very, very well, like a snowflake. it does data analytics and it's tried to broaden it out. you've got a name like zoom, that's seen as a missed opportunity. these names are left being

one-trick ponies at a time when some argue that companies, enterprises wanting to go with suites and more complete picture like a microsoft or alphabet so how are they going to be able to you take docusign, its ceo stepping down to let swuomeone else figure that out are they platforms or products that could be absorbed and used in a bigger company. >> the ark innovation etf is up 7% right now it turned positive this morning. let's check on the markets right now broadly. we are seeing the dow still lower by 252 points or so. it's cyclical names getting hit the hardest. those that are tied to the economy, that's why the dow is down more. it's also the multi nationals that are hit by a stronger dollar the s&p down a third of a percent. the russell is positive. commodities getting crushed today on recession fears

up next, helima croft on whether this sell-off is a buying opportunity for investors. as we head to break, check out some of the top search tickers 10-year yield taking the top spot there's buying of treasuries on worries about the economy, certainly over in europe and the u.s. as well tesla is up there. it's turned around, up 1 sp.5% despite disappointing numbers on deliveries crude is below $100 a barrel we'll talk about it next what if you were a global energy company? with operations in scotland, technologists in india, and customers all on different systems. you need to pull it together. so you call in ibm and red hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform.

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recession fears mounting as oil trades below $100 a barrel lowest level since may 11th. the energy sector is falling

hard on the back of the oil prices the xle that tracks those stocks nearly 5% lower today. joining us now is helima croft retail gas prices, helima, fallen for 21 consecutive days it's not just oil. copper prices are at 19-month lows talk to us about what's happening. these recession fears starting to overcome the tight supply which had been driving oil prices most of the year. >> this was a macro driven fall-off the entire complex was hit today except for european natural gas. clearly they are pricing in concerns about recession, about demand destruction we are seeing consumers starting to change behaviors, using public transportation more, driving to cheaper gas stations, putting off discretionary travel but we're not seeing a major hit to demand yet. the fundamental backdrop for oil remains strong but macro sell-off can be very brutal. >> has it made you change your

minding about where prices are headed you've been pretty bullish on this idea that with russia out, it's going to be very tight supply and very high prices. >> i mean we haven't changed our fundamental story on the market. we look out for the back half of the year we do see a market with a shock absorber we'll look for signs of demand destruction, but demand destruction events are relatively rare. if we look at 2008, there was far less discretionary spending that consumers had when that actually hit, and so we think the consumer is in a better position but again, this macro story can overwhelm fundamentals and that's what's happening right now. >> how bad is it getting in europe as far as gas and lack of access, and what do you expect to see here? >> sara, this is a really serious economic story for europe we already have the russians slashing flows through the all-important nordstream 1

pipeline there was concern about what would happen if norwegian supplies came off the market they're the second largest supplier into europe that strike has been settled but the russia story will continue to weigh on markets in europe they're real concerned that nord stream 1 will not restart and europe may have to brace for a full russian gas cutoff this winter when we look at europe, they are the front lines in terms of the economic fallout from this war >> what do you think is going to happen there are they going to have to seriously ration gas is there any other source they can get it from? >> no, i mean this is the problem. there's no spr for natural gas at this point, sara. so basically there really is not another supplier that can backfill russian losses on a significant scale. and so, yes, we're going to have to potentially look at rationing, industrial curtailment. that's why you have european

governments coming out and talking to consumers about ratcheting down consumption. we're not really having that conversation on the scale in the united states that it's happening in europe at this point. but again, for both europe and the united states, it's going to be demand that really balances this market. >> no, i think it's why the european recession worries are at a fever pitch today in the market the euro is plunging finally i wanted to ask you about this tweet from president biden and the counter tweet from jeff bezos because he continues to put political pressure on oil companies saying my message to companies running gas stations is simple, this is a time of war and global peril bring down the price you are charging at the pump to reflect the cost you're paying for the product and do it now. and then bezos calls him out for saying it's either straight ahead misdirection or deep misunderstanding of the basic market dynamics. i assume, helima, you agree with jeff bezos, but i do wonder what

you think the president is after here and what that relationship is going to look like? >> i think for president biden, the challenge he has faced is there is no easy supply fix to this market. again, we keep saying it's going to have to be demand that balances this market because we really have a shortage of spare capacity and so i do think as we look out into the midterms, the president is trying to find a way to show voters that he is sensitive to the concerns about inflation but again, going after oil companies or talking about gas stations, that's not going to fix the fundamental issue in the oil market of a shortage of capacity again, demand will balance this market. >> do the companies have any ability to affect the price at the pump >> here's the issue, sara, is that most gas stations, the vast maj majority, are independently operated i mean what president biden has been trying to do is trying to get oil companies to basically produce more but that's not going to be an

immediate fix, as we all know. you can't just turn this on quickly. he's going to saudi arabia, trying to get more oil from saudi arabia the saudis have potentially between around opec maybe 2 million barrels. not a lot if this market remains tight and we do not see a major fall-off in demand >> helima croft, thank you good to talk to you as always. up necxt, the big picture on the stocks that could be most impacted by the plunge in the euro two-decade low today against the dollar we'll be right back.

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well, earlier it looked like it was going to be one of those ugly days, but it has been a big reversal intraday and we are coming back. the dow down 192 it was down 742 at the low nike has been an outperformer all day but now you've got names like salesforce, apple, home depot, walmart, microsoft, disney all on the list and other winners as well following a lot of these consumer, communication service stocks higher with the nasdaq up 1.5% perhaps it's the reversal in treasury yields which are under pressure on worries about the economy. bitcoin is higher. a lot of the seemingly riskier

parts of the market doing better today. today's big picture is the euro dollar inching closer and closer to parity, one dollar to one euro it hasn't happened since 2002. back early in the whole euro experiment the euro has weakened more than 9% in the last six months. it's now at a 20-year low. why? because the european economy is in worse shape than the u.s. economy. it's more dependient on russian oil and gas. like the fed, the ecb is tightening into this slowdown because inflation there has been soaring as well of the that's a bad mix. so the fed has more room to tighten. it already has done so and that makes the dollar a much better bet but that strong dollar is bad news for u.s. stocks that do business in europe from tech to pharma to consumer, think mondelez, estay lauder,

microsoft, j&j most investors do tend to give these companies a pass on earnings on days like this because the dollar usually does eventually go the other way, but it will be a big problem as earnings season gets under way and it is only getting worse with moves like today. we'll keep an eye out for parity up next, ruchir sharma explains why he is so bullish on emerging markets despite facing several headwinds. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ well would you look at that? ♪ ♪ jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks it gets a little old. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! [golf ball bounces off rover] unbelievable. ugh. [ding]

emerging markets underperforming the s&p over the past 12 months or so, but is now the time to jump in?

ruchir sharma writing emerging markets are in better shape than you think, and ruchir joins us now. i don't know, if europe and maybe the u.s. go into recession, that typically does not bode well for the emerging world. >> well, that's correct, sara. but i think if you look at what's happened this year, i'm very intrigued by how emerging markets are proving to be quite resilient. had you told me at the beginning of this year that the u.s. stock market is going to be down 20%, how much do you think emerging markets are going to be down i think most people would have answered they'll be down 30% instead this year at least emerging markets are outperforming. if you look at the world's ten best performing markets in general, all ten are emerging markets. so it is very difficult for any asset class to generate positive returns, particularly in the equity space with the stock market behaving this way but the relative resilient of

emerging markets where you expect them to do poorly is i think something worthy of note and worth asking the question why is this happening. my answer is that the fundamentals of emerging markets have improved significantly compared to the last few years >> well, let's get into that, but why isn't it that they're more tied to china now than they ever have been, than they are with the u.s., and china doesn't have the same inflation problems and they do have a pent-up demand story to get to once they get rid of all the lockdowns from covid >> yes, that's correct but i think that the links with china have been weakening a lot. despite the price action that we are seeing today with the carnage in the commodity markets, a lot of these emerging markets are dependent on commodity exports. even as china has been quite soft, demand-wise over the last few months, many commodity prices and even commodity exporting con done much better

so i think the link with china is weakening because what's happening here is just how supply constrained the commodity markets have been. so the few nations that have been able to produce commodities have done quite well those currencies have also done relatively well to this carnage, notwithstanding. so i think that the link of china to many of these emerging markets has been weakening as china has turned much more inward. >> so which countries do you like the best right now, and what is a good way for investors to play them should they buy the etfs, for instance, that track those markets? >> i think the etf is the wrong way to do it because it is concentrated in three countries, which is basically china, korea and taiwan that's nearly 60%. there are so many other emerging markets out there so it has to be much more specific. talking about country examples, i like indonesia quite a bit, i like southeast asia in general i think indonesia, philippines, vietnam all look quite interesting to me. i think some of the commodity

exporting markets of latin america such as brazil, especially with the currency where it is now and even mexico i think look interesting and there's always india, which is a country that consistently disappoints the optimist and the pessimist, but i think that foreigners have been selling india quite aggressively over the last few months. but very interestingly, the domestic investors in india have been buying that market and usually the domestic investors in general across markets have a better track record of what's going to happen in their country than foreigners do so i would back the domestic over foreign investors any day in terms of their price behavior and their buying in these emerging markets. >> we've got to leave it there and there are individual country etfs and eido is only down 5% thank you. and we are seeing session highs. the dow is only down 175 or so big comeback look at micron, up 6%.

also big comeback after last week's disappointment on guidance we will dive into what is guiding that rebound straight ahead. that story plus a rough day for the banks. bitcoin also makes a comeback ene keounse e market zone, next. researchers believe the first person to live to 150 has already been born. it could be you! wow. really? of course, you'll have to eat your greens, watch your stress, wear sunscreen... but to live to 150, we're developing solutions that help doctors listen to your heartbeat while

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dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity we are now in the "closing bell" market zone. charlie is back to break down these crucial moments of the trading day. plus kristina partsinevelos on micron and leslie picker on the banks, weaker today. the major averages rebounding from their worst levels of the session.

the nasdaq the clear outperformer for a change. charlie, it's not your kind of day. it's the kind of day where datadog and bitcoin look better than some of the things that you favor. >> i almost called you to reschedule because this is not my kind of day clearly this is a day the market got more confident we're going into recession i acknowledge the possibility of a recession but don't think it's 100% the market has predicted nine of the last ten recessions. i think the market is excessively confident of a recession. but if it's right and we go into recession, then some of the consumer discretionary names, some of the banks, some of the financials that i own are not going to do so well and some of the growth stocks have a chance of outperforming there's just no way to deny that. >> are there any value stocks in that growth stock basket that would do well that you might be interested in? >> sure. we have lots of names that are

growing at very nice rates but by definition, value stocks and growth stocks tend to get separated by valuation our names tend to trade at a low multiple of book, low multiple of earnings. we're having lots of opportunities in that world. i talk to you about mohawk carpets trading at eight times earnings mosaic trading at four times earnings, so our names are very cheap. the one thing you do pay is there's sometimes short-term headwinds. what aerial is all about is trying to look past those headwinds to long-term opportunity. right now the market is extremely focused on short-term headwinds. >> jpmorgan cutting its price target and earnings estimate for tesla after the ev company announced disappointing second quarter deliveries the stock turned around. ford announced a sales increase by just 1.8% and stellantis could slash

production by 200,000 vehicles because of the global chip shortage phil lebeau joins us what about production and the ability to increase how much evs they can build >> well, that's the big question and i think that's one reason why you don't see a whole lot of love for the auto stocks right now. everybody knows evs are coming and yet at the same time we know it's going to be a longer and bumpier road than many were hoping for as you take a look at ford and tesla and stellantis, when you look at the tesla deliveries, 254,000 vehicles, yeah, a little bit light of some of the analysts' expectations, but not dramatically so. we knew what was happening in china. in fact many believe the second half they're going to ramp production the ford june sales is a year over year comparison, but a year ago in june, they had a drop of 27% because of the chip crisis so people look at it and say, okay, you had an easy comparison

there. and stellantis, there is a report year-to-date production down 14% for the automakers, ford, gm, stellantis, honda, they all hit 52-week lows today and that is primarily because there's not a whole lot of optimism in this group despite the record pricing that they have right now. >> typically pretty cyclical and also tied to those loans, phil, thank you. anything you like here, charlie, in the auto space? >> we love borg warner if you drive around and look at lots, dealer lots, there is nothing for sale that is going to get fixed the chip problem is going to get fixed. when it does, there is tremendous backup. there's tremendous demand that's going to get filled eventually we'll go back to 17 million cars a year and names like borg warner will do very well. >> they are down 30% or so in

the last 12 months. micron plunged last week after issuing disappointing guidance but the stock is rebounding after the ceo gave investors some reasons to be bullish about the long-term outlook. listen >> near-term headwinds related to consumer demand and adjustments by our customers are impacting our outlook, but the long-term trending of ai, of 5g, of electric vehicles and of course cloud computing, all of these trends really need more memory, more storage >> kristinea partsinevelos join us china could also be helpful and also i think it shows you the positioning around these stocks into earnings and just how bearish the street got. >> yeah, how bearish but i think a lot of investors underestimated how much of an impact china does have micron said overall sales in china dropped 33%, but that created a 10% impact on overall revenue for the company. that is a substantial number

so even if there is a slowdown in china and they eventually get back online, fewer lockdowns, to answer your question, yes, it will be a tailwind one other point too talking about the overreliance on china, just today there was a report that the united states is asking netherlands to ban asml from sharing its data and technology with china because they don't want china to be the leader in chip making. so we have an email out to the commerce department and asml, as an example, the stock is down 4% today. so there's a lot of moving parts over here but of course the united states with the chip stock going nowhere is trying its best to maintain its footing on the global stage. >> i learned a lot about that in aspen last week talking to intel ceo pat gelsinger. it's pretty scary stuff if we don't pass that bill

is that a sector you should continue to steer clear from because they are cyclically oriented >> so chips are to the u.s. what oil and gas is to europe we both -- europe let itself get too reliant on an undependable supplier in russia, and we let ourselves get too reliant on an undependable suppliers throughout asia. it was just a strategic mistake. i think we realize it. frankly, i didn't think it would take two years to fix, but it has and it continues to be a problem. everybody's you talk to in the space says it is not going to get fixed in the next six months so this is a tough industry, it's a competitive industry, it's a capital intensive industry it's billions of dollars to open up a new plant, but we need to bring this technology back home. relying on these unpredictable suppliers is just devastating. >> well, the national security impact here looms large. and the money is going to go

elsewhere. even europe is subsidizing its chip makers and others let's hit bitcoin because it made a late-day bounceback it's now back above $20,000. it's hovered around there much of the past three weeks. we're also seeing more consolidation talks in the crypto universe. yesterday singapore based lender vold suspending all withdrawals and a company wants to buy them. they get 60 days for talks charlie, you're not a fan but it is interesting to see how this industry is lifting itself up. ftx, sam bankman-fried bailing out some of the competitors. there's a question about what the future looks like of bitcoin because it is being stress tested >> look, you have to invest based on underlying value and use case what we have founding is that

bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and i'm going to get lots of angry letters at me, this is not a currency, it's not a safe haven for value. there is a wonderful currency if you're trying to engage in illegal behavior but just as the u.s. government cut down on gold transactions because people were evading taxes in the '30s and '40s, they are going to continue to regulate this space and make it harder for people trying to do illicit activity i think this is frankly an area that has a lot farther to go down there are going to be a lot of these companies that have liquidity problems there is no underlying value here. >> do you think we need to see more pain in the price as all these skeletons come out of the closet before we see a real bottom for the stock market? >> we've already had one hell of a crash, sara. the underlying currency is down 75% and some of the currency, some of the nfts are down 95%.

there is no there, there, and so i think there's a lot of pain to be had there i know there are a lot of true believers in the space but there's just no underlying value to the currency yourself. >> well, you're in good company at least warren buffett and charlie munger agree with you. let's talk about the banks because recession fears and falling bond yields are a double whammy for bank stocks today leslie picker joins us we've got the yield curve about to invert again. not good for banks. >> that's right, sara. so recession fears have really been the bulk of the concern surrounding banks for much of the year, probably dating back to when russia first invaded ukraine. but they have had this force of rising yields, and that's true because banks do become more profitable by charging more deposit than they pay out to

depo depositors now that yields are sliding as well creating a double whammy for banks, that's creating some pressure on the sector, although it's bounced back a little bit with the broader market, well off their lows of the session. there were also a few price cuts, price target cuts on friday before the holiday weekend. investors may be doing some repositioning ahead of bank earnings, which believe it or not kick off next week. >> leslie, thank you charlie, we're going to get bank earnings as leslie mentioned can these stocks work if the yield curve is inverted? >> yeah, this has not been good for those stocks some of them are so cheap, sara, i think there's real opportunity here. >> like who? >> my grandfather taught me a lot of things when i was a boy one of the things he taught me is buy banks at less than one times book that was one of the things he told goldman sachs at less than book. citi at 50% of book. jpmorgan is getting down close to book.

these stocks are very cheap. and frankly, the credit situation is very good we may be going into a recession, but individual investors have very strong balance sheets corporate america is in very good shape i'm actually pretty bullish on the outlook for banks over the next 12 months. >> which one is your favorite? who looks the cheapest >> goldman at under book is such a spectacular franchise. trading revenue is spectacular investment banking revenue will be a little softer but trading revenue will be excellent. to value the company at less than the value of the securities that it holds just means you're giving no value to the franchise, which makes no sense. >> turning out to be a better close than certainly expected earlier. we're actually at session highs, down 157 on the dow. s&p 500 has gone positive, just, for the first time today it was sharply lower this morning. the nasdaq has been positive for much of the afternoon now. look at the comeback we've seen,

down more than 740 at the low of the day. when i came in this morning, i actually thought it was going to be an up day because there was a high-level discussion between treasury secretary yellen and the vice premier in china, and some reports that the biden administration is looking at getting rid of the tariffs on more than $300 billion of chinese goods. isn't that something that the market would like? isn't that bullish and then the european recession concerns seemed to overshadow everything. >> yeah, this is something where the market has evolved a little bit, sara. i would have said eight years ago the market has table pounding free traders. they really hated the tariffs that were being put on china and then that view evolved over the trump administration to the point where there are now people that buy the argument that we, using the semiconductor example, need to defend and need to bring some business back to the u.s. so i would agree with you that reducing tariffs should be good

for reducing inflation which should be good for the market but there's more of mixed feelings about tariffs today than there would have been eight years ago. >> there, charlie. a final thought as we head into the close with this comeback stick with value stick with cyclical? >> value stocks are extremely cheap. you can get lots of names that are assuming a recession for less than ten times earnings we calculate the value of our stocks and they're now close to 40% discount, one of the highest we've seen in the last 15 years. now is a great time to buy value stocks. >> charlie, consistent as we head into the close, take a look at where we are in the market the dow is only down, i don't know, 150, 156 points right now. earlier this morning there was only one dow stock higher and that was nike. now there are a bunch. you've got even some of the cyclical names that were under pressure doing well. salesforce, apple, home depot, walmart, disney is doing okay, intel turned positive, 3m and merck. the s&p 500 has gone positive on

the session. again, at the low of the day we were down about 29 points -- excuse me, 83 points on the s&p 500. we're now up 3.5 and the nasdaq is the leader up 1 sp 1.7% lower treasury yields, increasing concerns about recession but that has led to a bid in some of the beaten-down growthy names in technology. at the close up almost 2%. that's it for me now into "overtime" with mike santoli. welcome to "overtime." i'm mike santoli in for scott wapner you just heard the bells but we're just getting started and we begin with our talk of the tape the tech-led turn around stocks finishing the session well off their lows with the nasdaq posting solid gains the s&p 500 nosing into the green after a 2% morning decline. the move coming despite the recession trade remaining in full force with yields retreating and oil dropping back below $100 a barrel. in