a slew of factors including losing subscribers in the u.s. and competition, tons of things working against netflix. >> maybe the fed minutes helped some of the big names. >> thanks for watching "power lunch. "closing bell" with sara eisen starts right now >> thank you, dom and courtney a late day rally here. the most important hour of trading starts now welcome, everyone, to "closing bell." i'm sara eisen where we stand in the market, not too far off session highs. we got as far as 200 on the dow, up about 150 or so most sectors are working the nasdaq up 0.7%

it's building on yesterday's gains. the energy exposure and the banks down half a percent. coming up this hour an early investor in coin base. first let's get to elon muoy >> reporter: officials agreed that another rate hike of 50 to 75 basis points would likely be appropriate at its meeting and, in fact, they even acknowledged that a more restrictive stance could be appropriate if inflation remains high inflation becoming entrenched. officials believe the fed's credibility in shifting to tighter policy and they viewed raising rates as meeting the legislative mandate.

the resilience of the labor market though some officials did note there could be clouds on the horizon. they would spend more on food, energy, housing. they stressed persistently high inflation could stay in the way of maximum employment. it could result in slower economic growth and dampen the labor market and indicated the fed could deliver a strong labor market this soft landing the fed is trying to pull off could be very difficult. back over to you >> it is stale, right? since that meeting they did raise by a triple hike the economic data has turned worse commodities are well off their highs, more than 20% in the case of oil and increasing concerns in europe and the united states

is there anything that would give us a clue in july >> reporter: i think it's interesting they specifically pointed to a 50 or 75 point increase it will be interesting to see whether that is even on the table and sort of what the range of rate hikes will be that they're discussing i think the concern at the last meeting was that there was this tradeoff the higher rates could have on the market esther george was arguing for the 50-point increase and not as high as 75 we'll see if there's a bias toward an even bigger one. ylam mui, a sign of recession

against the two year straight to the market move. joining us ally mccartney. the last few days have felt bullish. this very hawkish fed minutes is being dismissed by the market. is that the right move >> i think everything you said is right on in terms of the stalemate of the commentary since we've had testimony and a strong dollar and global fed follows suit we have had a risk reversal in the last number of days. this rotation focusing on the impact of higher sustained inflation versus a global slowing has really changed that's evidenced in three ways first what has outperformed. we've had profitless tech outperform value

second we have seen the fed funds move from pricing a terminal rate of four to 3.4 and an 80 basis points of decrease next year and then the third is what we've seen in the commodities market the last three days i don't think you can say they're telling a totally different narrative but that's where the focus is we'll see if that can be sustained. >> if they truly are data dependent and truly are aiming for a soft landing wouldn't that argue for a lesser rate hike i know we have to wait to get the cp ireport the tightest part they were aiming for is starting to cool off. >> policy is working there's no question about it they are not going to explicitly say they're data dependent

that is not part of the narrative. it's interesting when you go back to these minutes a little while ago, back on june 15th they were debating 50 or 75. obviously, lo and behold, we've seen break evens collapse. we've seen what we believe to be the most important inflation indicator, the price of gasoline collapsed and importantly today for the first time really in quis some weeks with weakness in the energy markets you are seeing credit spreads tighten meaning the concern is incrementally smaller than it was yesterday. >> although, wow, easy come, easy go. the energy sector is off 25% from the highs still up more than 25% for the year what are you telling your clients to do? you've been bearish when you've been on with us before saying

wait it out, sit it out. are you changing your tune given the changing fundamentals? >> i don't know they're fundamental so that's the issue. we have so little flow in the market right now our desk said this morning, i thought it was cute, we're getting a lot of calls, not trades, questions. everybody is trying to figure out what's going on. it's a slow week because we're in the everybody is both emotionally and market level exhausted. i think we still have a summer of watching for what the fed does, for what happens in international policy, watching for the directionality of cpi. we still see a world in which there's stagflation, calling for slowflation. there are some major issues and hangovers in the market that

don't make me more incrementally bullish but a set of scenarios >> do you still see 4300 year end target >> we do when we think of the dynamics coming in on july the 27th, the combination of the tradeoff in commodity prices alongside you saw the economic numbers this morning, the pmis were better than expected, weaker as the fed wants but still not recession territory. a very good chance of a rally that could get near 4300

>> it's changed so much. today is a funky day where utilities and technology are the best performing sector >> for us it's two things. across the entire space of the russell 1,000 there are a number of companies that have very high free cash flow yields. they come in technology. they come in consumer. they come in the energy space. things do not move in a straight line forever in this kind of market and this is the time for the nasdaq to outperform you've had this significant backup in yield and an expectation coming into earnings season these names will be under pressure but that's already in the price. >> what about you, alli? i think were you interested in chinese stocks

>> we're definitely interested in chinese stocks in terms of the lags pub foblt algyou have % of stocks beat their estimate by about 4% the question is how -- if that happens, "a," what forecasting looks like and, "b," does the market react i think we need real data on how companies are holding up especially with the strong dollar the dollar, i mean, you look at a friend of mine called from paris and said everything is on sale think about what that is doing to these u.s. companies that are already facing such higher prices and margin costs. i still like it. >> the euro is weakening again

today. another half a percentage point higher for the dollar. thank you both for joining me. check out bitcoin. another crypto firm collapses. up next early coin base investor bradley tusk on how much worse this crypto winter could get the dow up 153 you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc.

check out today's stealth mover. shares of the wood and paper products maker skyrocketing up more than 60% after being acquired by paper excellence group in cash. that deal helping the company expand in north america which is experiencing tight supplies of paper products like so many other industries meantime, more crypto damage brokerage firm voyager filing for bankruptcy so prex just look at the time line the price began to fall. in may tariff stable coin collapsed that led to companies like celsius to pause withdrawals and hedge fund three arrows capital went bust

joining us now tusk venture, bradley tusk bradley, have there been any others have you had any changes in positions? >> luckily not yet within crypto. i've had plenty of others blow up in the last few months. not specifically in crypto i think what happened with voyager today is not particularly surprising, not that voyager was clearly a company destined to fail the industry got too expansive, too big, too creative with too few kind of fundamentals and just like we've seen generally with private tech startups that are way overvalued and the market cuts them down considerably, this is another version of that. >> what's the issue here it just wasn't a mature industry is it there wasn't enough regulation people are losing money. they're not getting it back. >> crypto is an asset class based on nothing but momentum

and ideology different than any other commodity or stock or anything else. with 2,500 different tokens, there's literally nothing to distinguish and as a result people end up making choices that feel random and they can lose a lot of money. what i would like to see why we identify the currencies, the tokens that have intrinsic value. it could be a bitcoin and that creates underlying value or ethereum where you can build new protocols on top of it but find the tokens and the currencies -- >> bitcoin has gone from almost 70,000 in a matter of months to under 20 >> i think part of that is because they're suffering from

the entire industry collapsing and i think if you didn't have 2,500 different tokens each with sort of its own different story and narrative it would be a lot less volatile. the vast number combined with a lack of regulation is what creates the volatility and the way to limit that going forward is fewer tokens. and then as the s.e.c. and the ftc and whoever else have regulations around crypto take that into account. they could say, yes, normally we wouldn't let the exchanges come together and these are what we will offer >> it sounds like you're not losing conviction and see this almost in the dot-com crash where something stable is born out of it. what opportunities are there are you investing around things you think will stick around in the crash? >> to me it's the really basic

fundamental tokens and currency that makes sense right now overall, if you take half a step back, onereason crypto really took off other than sort of people bored during covid, there's a fundamental lack of trusts in this country and across the world if you look at every poll trust in government, in the church, in wall street, in the media, they've all plummeted. that trust has to go somewhere one of the places it went to is bitcoin and ethereum and the notion of i would rather take my chances with like-minded people than with a central bank who rigs the game against me i don't think trust in institutions is anytime soon it's going to get worse and worse. it degrades by the day if you agree it means

fundamentally cryptocurrency and the key tokens will be fine long term but they need a better ecosystem with more protection and more regulation than we have right now. >> though there's a lot of trust in the dollar right now. it goes up every single day. you mentioned you've had other busts in the portfolio i think you've been fund-raising in this tough environment. what feels, if any, are getting done >> luckily we finished raising our third venture fund in late march and were able to basically kind of avoid the current cycle. in terms of deals, all we're seeing are internal financing from existing vcs, and even the deals we are looking at we don't see a reason to pay more than they might have been valued because that's where the market now lies we were all paying vastly

inflated prices because that's where the market was there are good companies that have strong fundamentals and have gotten caught up in the broader spac downward momentum and some are really good that will be successful once weep get past this sort of thought of spacs. >> what's been the biggest blowup >> bird. >> the scooter >> yeah. it was a company that i think was the fastest ever to a billion dollar valuation was it ever a $3 billion company? no last i checked it was trading at 43 cents it's more valuable than that it is a company that has a product consumers really like. there's a clear need for it in the transportation market. we think they have strong

products and strong demand once we get past this period we'll rebound and do pretty well >> we rode scooters outside the exchange a few years ago we were safe, thank god. let's check in on the markets. financials have just turned green. the only sector lower on the day would be energy. we're building on gains. we're near session highs and the nasdaq continues its march up 1% as we head into the close. mike santoli looking at the flight to quality and whether defense will continue to be one of the best performing sectors for investors in this environment. as we head to break check out some of today's top searched tickers. ten-year treasury right on top as it always is. wti crude is there below $99 a barrel

tesla slightly higher. amazon has really climbed during the session and the s&p does continue to hit sessn ghiohis. e! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it... like one's that re-opened! hi, we have an appointment. and every new business that just opened! like aromatherapy rugs! i'll take one in blue please! it's not complicated. at&t is giving new and existing business customers our best deals on every iphone. ♪ ♪

♪ music ♪ ♪ dream, dream when you're feeling blue ♪ ♪ dream, dream that's the thing to do ♪ ♪ music ♪ when you see value in all directions, you add value in all directions. accenture. let there be change.

(torstein vo) when you really philosophize about it, there's only one thing you don't have enough of. time is the only truly scarce commodity. when you come to that realization, i think it's very important that you spend your time wisely. and what better way of spending time than traveling, continuing to educate ourselves and broaden our minds? (woman vo) viking. exploring the world in comfort.

time now for today's market dashboard. mike santoli with a look at the flight to quality taking place it's weird to see technology and utilities outperforming. that's what's happening today. >> both definitions and it's happening within sectors not just among sectors here are pharmaceuticals and biotech. people have said friendlier things about biotech the bifurcation of the market within pharma. the drug stocks, the big pharma names, are cheaper there's two versions of biotech etfs heavily traded. this is market cap weighted. they're outperforming the equal waited version

and then you have aerospace and defense which is considered more predictable. lower beta and volatility and transports which are more cyclical financials as well insurance, nobody talks about it insurance is beating banks which is beating capital markets the question, i think, sara, it makes sense from a macro and risk management perspective to say go to quality right now. the issue is what if the market starts to get back to risk on if we get some clarity on and you're in the high quality stuff. >> is that what you're saying? >> i'm saying be prepared for the opportunity cost if you're all in boring quality because, guess what, garbage rallies fast when we return >> progressive up 17% year to date >> pricing power

>> thank you up next, wall street buzzing about recession-proof stock ideas. sort of to follow mike and here is a hint, love don't cost a thing

space. the boundary of human achievement. the new frontier. ♪♪ eh. ♪♪ it's not time to escape. it's time to engage.

it's time to plant more trees. hoo! ♪♪ time to build more trust. time to make more space for all of us. so while the others look to the metaverse and mars, let's stay here and restore ours. yeah, it's time to blaze our trail. 'cause the new frontier? it ain't rocket science. ♪♪ it's right here. ♪♪ so... i know you and george were struggling with the possibility of having to move. how's that going? we found a way to make bathing safer

with a kohler walk-in bath. a kohler walk-in bath provides a secure, spa-like bathing experience in the comfort of your own home. a kohler walk-in bath has one of the lowest step-ins of any walk-in bath for easy entry and exit. it features textured surfaces, convenient handrails for more stability, and a wide door for easier mobility. kohler® walk-in baths include two hydrotherapies— whirlpool jets and our patented bubblemassage™ to help soothe sore muscles in your feet, legs, and back. a kohler-certified installer will install everything quickly and conveniently in as little as a day. they made us feel completely comfortable in our home. and, yes, it's affordable. i wish we would have looked into it sooner. think i might look into one myself. stay in the home and life you've built for years to come. call... to receive fifteen hundred dollars off your kohler® walk-in bath. and take advantage of our special offer of no payments for eighteen months.

what is wall street buzzing about? love, actually turns out love is all you need, especially in a recession. morgan stanley out with a new note saying the need for human connection even during an economic pullback makes online dating stocks recession proof. it's something bumble ceo heard talked about last week on "tech check. >> regardless of macroeconomic trends and ups and downs, people don't stop meeting each other. people don't stop the quest for love >> it's not just the quest for love, though that is listed as one of the reasons they're confident? online dating stocks, the firm expects limited to no increase in subscription turn and believes the cost mad model across the internet space. the top pick is match because of the market share and diverse portfolio. the stock is down about 45% so far this year. morgan stanley says investors

could find love in a hopeless place. here is where we stand in the markets. we've been rallying throughout the final hour of trade up more than 200 points on the dow the s&p up almost a full percent. you have technology, utilities leading. down sharply, 1.5% the nasdaq doing well, building on yesterday's gains up another percent. small caps lag up next a top strategist on how you should be putting money to work as the fed raises interest rates into this slowing economic environment. and a reminder you can listen to "closing bell" on the go e w 217

let's get a check on the markets, it's been a little volatile after the fed minutes that did show officials anticipate more rate hikes again, more restrictive policy initially stocks dipped and they basically have been jumping straight up into this final hour of trade we are at session highs up more than 200 on the dow. joining us is oksana aronov for fixed income at jpmorgan asset management what do you expect the fed's next move to be? >> i think today's minutes were quite interesting, sara. we saw 90 mentions of the word inflation and zero mention of the word recession which is, of course, what's on everyone's minds these days the market is kind of swinging back and forth at least in rates. we saw quite a bit of a move today from an early morning rally now back into the high 29s. they will continue to choose

inflation over growth and that is the name of the game and that's why i think investors have to continue to be focused on preservation here >> you're not buying into inflation has peaked and so have hawkish expectations from the fed? >> not at this time. there's expectation it will moderate and this magical thinking if the market thinks about it hard enough maybe it will happen. the components are stickier. we don't know where wages are going to come in we saw continuously very tight labor market picture with two vacancies for every one employee and so there are just very sticky components to the inflation figure and really no

telling that it is, in fact, moderating and i think jumping into either duration risk or credit risk here is way, way premature. and let's not forget we still do not know what quantitative tightening will bring us that is somewhat of a wild card. we expect 1.5 billion through the end of next year that in itself is almost three-quarter percent hikes. a 2.9 on the ten year not a bargain yet. >> i take your point on the quantitative tightening. a huge unknown we've never really done it before hard to figure out what that's going to do to financial assets. but on the inflation front, oksana, increasing signs we are seeing lower commodity prices, everything from oil to wheat, even some new reports that brent prices are falling, that the jobs market is getting less tight. so adding that together and some

of the economic signals we're seeing along with financial conditions tightening, why are you not sold on that idea? >> we see the stickier numbers, i will call a wild card. my expectation they will continue to surprise on the outside. let's zoom out and consider the fact that for the fed to stop being aggressive here they need to see more than an inflation number that falls from 8.6 to 8.2. they need a meaningful, and this is what powell underscored again today and in the past press conferences, they need a meaningful turnaround to the inflation story to stop being as aggressive as they have. the other point i would make is with respect to credit, and there is a lot of appetite i think right now, or at least i'm hearing a lot of calls to get back into credit, back into risk the reality is we have no experience or very little experience what it means for an

aggressive fed into a slower earnings environment a fed who is hiking interest earnings environment and i think that's a reason to be cautious on credit here i think credit will continue to widen. and we will have significantly better opportunities as the prospect of average defaults, which we haven't seen yet. the historic average is at 3.5%. it is reasonable to expect the market to move towards that historic average and spreads will reflect that. maybe the interest rate here is close to done, maybe, but certainly not the spread widening certainly not the credit fundamentals that is not done yet we need to see that happen for capitulation to come through and in order for the bargains we are looking for. >> cash, is that what you're saying cash, capital preservation >> capital preservation is the

name of the game whether you do it through liquidity, we like to do it through a combination of liquidity and also high-quality floating rate instruments that are really going together to be really a free option, almost, on any asset class in the world as we continue to see this reprising. there are parts of the market that are starting to look increasingly interesting for us as credit watchers we are looking at the edges of things like convertibles, for example, that have suffered significantly in the sell-off and that is maybe at the top of our shopping list. our shopping list is growing, but without a doubt we're going to see much better entry points than the one we're observing now. >> interesting bearish view. thank you for joining us >> thank you $82. that's goldman sachs new case scenario for apple stock

complying could drop more than 40% from its current price up next, we will discuss whether the shine is officially off apple. that story plus energy slide and amazon getting back into the food delivery wars when we take you inside the "market zone. dow up 179 ♪ ♪ wow, we're crunching tons of polygons here! what's going on? where's regina? hi, i'm ladonna. i invest in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to the nasdaq-100 innovations, like real time cgi. okay... yeah... oh. don't worry i got it! become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq

hon? woo-hoo. you've gotta see this. the weathertech's here. (wow, that was fast.) [helicopter hovering] weathertech is the ultimate protection for your vehicle. laser-measured floorliners, no drill mudflaps, cargoliner, bumpstep, seat protector and cupfone. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ weathertech. as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig.

all on the most reliable 5g network with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. (vo) while you may not be a pediatric surgeon volunteering your topiary talents at a children's hospital — your life is just as unique.

your raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your passions, and the way you give back. so you can live your life. that's life well planned. we are now in the "closing bell" market zone. here to break down the crucial

moments of the trading day, pippa stevens and deirdre. we are seeing a rally and a strong session for the second day in a row besides energy, most of the other sectors are working. it's utilities and technology at the top of the market. i don't know what to think you come into a day like today after we've seen a few days with traders thinking maybe the worst is over as far as inflation, as far as the federal reserve hiking interest rates so aggressively but then we just heard from oksana aronov at jpmorgan saying it's too short term in terms of the thinking and inflation is quite sticky so what do you do? >> i think this is the big conundrum for the whole year the cross currents are pretty deep and in the short term these rallies and sell-offs are white noise because you really can't discern what the next move is for the markets, but i will say

this we decided a couple weeks ago to start adding risk back into our portfolio. i think you've seen other investors stepping back in, not the stay-at-home bubble pop names but the kind of long-term technology that can deliver reliable growth, have strong balance sheets, free cash flow but to your question, i don't think it's over. i think we continue to see choppiness the fed has done a remarkable job, and i've been a big critic but they've done a remarkable job using rhetoric to have markets do the heavy lifting for them that's what you're seeing in the bond markets and they may have overdiscounted a recession and how hard the fed is going to fight inflation. >> let's talk energy crude oil is below $99 a barrel. energy stocks are the worst performing right now in the s&p 500. cnbc's pippa stevens joins us.

a fast unwind of that winning trade. >> really fast unwind, sara, and recession fears are front and center with the idea any type of economic slowdown will curtail demand for oil on petroleum products there are a number of other factors weighing as well including the stronger dollar as well as an unwind of the oil as an inflation hedge trade but on the demand side, i think it's natural to look at prior downturns in prior recessions to try to gauge where demand might come in, if there is a slowdown. but experts say that kind of ignores the supply situation right now which is so tight and also the consumer is a lot stronger today than, say, in 2008 meaning we might not have that same kind of slowdown if we do get an economic downturn. it was noted the xle, which tracks the energy sector, fell below its 200-day moving average. it's only done that three other

times in the past year and each was able to regain the level in a matter of days and so this time around if they can't regain the key technical level that could be a sign of concern for the energy stock bulls >> thank you nancy, would you be a buyer? >> we have a pretty full position we've been trimming into the strength we are still overweight energy i think this is more a dollar story than a demand story. we know we have supply constraints and the president has been going to other countries to ask them to increase supply. that's not going to happen opec is pretty well constrained from a capacity and delivery standpoint i think you'll see a return to this trade, but i don't think it goes on for years as many do i think it's a six to nine month imbalance that will ultimately get sorted out, and i think as

china continues to reopen we'll see a return to higher energy prices, unfortunately. >> some of the energy utilities doing well today constellation energy, wec energy group at the top of the market meantime let's talk tech goldman sachs cut apple from 157 to 130, maintained a neutral rating on the stock because of increasing recession risk to consumer electronic demand rod hall also did issue a bear case scenario where he says that apple could plunge to $82 if recession turns out to be worse than the mild economic slowdown. steve kovac joins us steve, how strong right now is demand for apple products? is it a safe haven in recession, or is rod hall right that it really suffers on consumer electronic demand falling off? >> this is a really big question going into the earnings season with apple, where is demand standing

we get tons of different signals from apple they signaled demand is so high we just can't make enough stuff to get out to people they prioritize their iphone development as those shutdowns in china kind of hurt products like the mac and ipad business we're hearing from apple and people like qualcomm which puts chips that demand is great micron came out and said demand is about to fall off a cliff goldman laid out the bear case saying, look, if we do hit a recession demand will likely fall off for pricey phones we'll get a test of demand in a different way starting next week, sarah, when the new macbook air, a hot product for apple, starts going on sale.

we'll see if they can keep up with that. >> telecom and cloud based companies are more resilient you have been nibbling at tech stocks, is apple one of them >> no. we've been raging bulls from 2014 to about 2021 and we game net sellers. we still own it, but it's expensive. i understand it's a scenario that they are suggesting but i do think if you get a sell-off and we would be stepping in and accumulating more shares it's a great iconic brand and the ecosystem is what you're buying hand set demands can decline and the ecosystem can still grow

we would be buyers we're done selling for now >> it's up today it's up 2.5% for the week. take a look at shares of grub hub parent just eat take away soaring today after news of a deal with amazon which will bring restaurant delivery to prime members via a one-year subscription to grub hub plus. amazon has the option to take a 2% stake in u.s.-based grub hub. just eat said amazon could bump its stake to 15% based on performance terms of the deal. look at door dash down 8%. uber, which has uber eats down 5. it feels like we've been here before what do you do >> we have been here before. amazon was in this business. it closed in 2019. it was called amazon

restaurants. they closed it and the pandemic hit. people really bought into food delivery and amazon was out of the game they've seen these habits are sticky door dash was even able to become profitable on an adjusted ebitda process this is a way of amazon able to dip its toe back in and keep tabs on what looks like its competitors. they're moving into beauty and cosmetics, into convenience, into grocery and this is where amazon is pouring money into in terms of its own grocery offerings. so it's kind of a way of amazon saying, hey, i see you and now i'm going to help your third competitor get a leg up in this market >> can't beat them, join them. amazon started out down. now higher, rivian after the ev maker announced it produced --

announced it produced more than 4,000. they say it's on track to build 25,000 vehicles this year in line with its previously reduced guidance clearly this was a big surprise. what were the expectations and what do weexpect now >> reporter: there were limited expectations most were expecting 3,500, maybe 3,900 vehicles in the second quarter. came in at 4,401 look at the weekly production and how it has grown investors confidence today, 191 vehicles a week, picked up in the second part of the quarter, picked up may 10 to the end of the second quarter they need to average 694 built per week for the rest of the year to hit their guidance of 25,000 vehicles and, remember,

that's an average. if they add a second shift, most believe they will hit that 25,000 mark, sara. >> we've seen a return to the beaten down names. where does the street stand on these companies? lucid is getting a nice surge today. >> reporter: right i would say with rivian they're cautiously optimistic. many believe if they can get past these initial growing stages, the pain that goes with ramping up production, look, we saw this with tesla ten years ago. and at the time tesla was not getting as much attention. there is so much attention on rivian, you get past this period and gradually increase production and deliveries, the stock should grow. that's the expectation out there. >> got it, phil. phil lebeau. the s&p 500, we've actually lost a bit of steam in the last few

moments. we were trading at the highs of the day. we're still higher on the southwest but lower than we were not just energy now, consumer discretionary has joined in the red column along with financials and real estate. check out the cruise lines norwegian, carnival, some of the casinos as well. nancy, is it still dangerous if you want to be buying profitless tech and some of the other stocks that are 60% to 80% off their highs? >> i absolutely believe it is, sarah. i think you want to stay away from the very speculative end and we know that as investors when growth slows investors turn to reliable growers. historically that has not been tech now we have names that are delivering especially in the cloud and cyber security i think you want to give a wide berth to these volatile short-term travel names. we're playing the reopen and return to travel through american express

we think we have other levers to pull there i don't want to own any of those stocks they're up 6% one day and down 7 the next >> right nancy, thank you, nancy tengler. as we head to the bell, the s&p higher by a third of a percent you still have really some nice strength today in groups like utilities up a percent again, energy stocks hit down 2% when it comes to the nasdaq you do have strength in the big cap tech that is certainly helping. it's up a third of a percent well off the session highs moderna, lucid group and some of the other harder hit pockets of technology united health care is the biggest positive contribution along with microsoft, travelers and procter & gamble

there's the russell 2000 small caps down almost a percent the biggest drags on the dow there goes the bell. the dow up 70 points, the s&p up a third. off the highs but another positive session for the holiday trading week that's it for me now to "overtime" with mike santoli. >>welcome to "overtime" i'm mike santoli in for scott wapner we're just getting started we'll speak with sofi's liz young about whether she thinks now is a good time to buy this market and how to go about it. where she might be seeing the most upside. we start with our talk of the tape the big shrug. stocks posting modest gains today as the fed reiterates it will do whatever it takes to bring inflation down even if that means slowing the economy joining us now to discuss, josh brown, co-founder and ce