robust with the transition to auto, a.i. and data centers and the street is warning that the upcoming rally may be a rally in risk. >> kristina, thank you very much kristina partsinevelos that does it for "the exchange," everybody. a very busy hour of "power lunch qwe lunch," begins right now >> indeed it does. welcome, everybody, with "power lunch. i'm tyler matheson we begin with big news from the white house. president biden's doctors to hold a briefing on his condition after he tests positive for covid. that briefing should start in 15 minutes and we will take you there. meantime, though, let's take you straight away to shep smith with what we know and what to expect. >> the white house has told us to expect this briefing on the president's condition, his treatment, how this will impact -- keep going, how this will impact his schedule and day

to day schedule. it's going to keep going the president is doing well, considering. he has symptoms that they described as very mild they gave some specifics, runny nose, fatigue, a dry cough that all started last night and kevin o'connor, mr. biden didn't sleep well last night and he had a rapid test that was positive this morning followed by a pcr test, also positive. the president's in a relatively high-risk group at 79 years old. so the doctors have put him on paxlovid as meg tirrell will tell us that's the antiviral therapy used to lessen the symptoms the doctor says he expects the president to respond favorably because he's vaccinated and had not one, but two boosters and he's quarantined in the residence and canceled a planned trip to pennsylvania, but the spokesperson car karine st.

pierre responded, and the level of transmission is extraordinary according to dr. peter hotez the rules there are quite strict everybody around the president's tested daily everyone who meets with him gets a test first and those in close contact at the white house are all masked, but he's been out and about frequently, lately and worked a rope line yesterday so they figured this would happen at some point and now it has they seemed really transparent about it all day as we mentioned we expect to have more information when the briefing begins at 2:15 eastern, or that's the plan >> thank you very much >> as we await the briefing let's turn to the markets and the economy where we are seeing signs of a slowdown. jobless claims touched their highest levels since november 2021, and it's the third straight weekly gain and the philly region contracted in july

for the second straight month falling to its lowest levels and the conference board fell more than expected and consumer pessimism drove the index lower and there's more cautious commentaries from ceos the homebuilder, d.r. horton is seeing a moderation in housing demand the ceo of at&t says the lower end consumer is stressed ford is reportedly adding its need to the companies slowing hiring microsoft, google, lyft, meta and netflix all among the others smart management or an overreaction joining us now is bill george, former professor and medtronic ceo and he's also a cnbc contributor. bill, we know with inflation doing what it's doing that we need some slowing in the economy. is this too much or is this appropriate, the a prppropriate reset that's needed? >> think it is very important ceos get ahead of it it's obvious the recession is coming and the question is how

long will it be and when will it start? demand is up strongly and the prudent ceos as you've seen jim farley are starting to trim up right now. i know goldman is holding back on its hiring. i think the smart thing to do is to get in front of this and to trim up employees who report performers and maybe some early retirements and really look hard at your supply chain with shortages, but still, i think the opportunity to take out infrastructure in your company, so i think that's what you should do. farley said this morning, you want to be lean and agile, and i agree with that 100% and sometimes as he said, smaller is better and this is a great time to get ahead of the recession and maybe you have to put the price increases through because i think inflation will be with us a long time i hate to say it >> that was going to be my question, bill on the one side, you can -- you can moderate expense growth,

labor and other things and on the other side you have inflation. is now the time that smart executives go to the extent they have pricing power, and push through those price hikes because it may only get tougher if a recession gets going? >> i think you're 100% correct, tyler. now is the time to push through the price hike i realize in saying that that it encouraged more inflation. i think they should get in front of it because this inflation is not going away because a lot of it is coming out of the russia-ukraine war, challenges in china and food -- real food shortages and food inflation so core inflation will be with us for a long time even with higher interest rates. >> bill, it's interesting to hear you describing that ceos have to get ahead of inflation more so than they have to get

ahead of recession that's a pretty confusing environment. can they get ahead of both >> i think -- i think you can get ahead of recession by cutting off an essential step, but being lean and agile and getting ahead of it by letting poor performers go and trimming your infrastructure. i would, frankly, never advise someone to cut strategic investments at this stage, but you certainly can roll back on some necessary investments and you certainly can cut infrastructure i think you've got to do that today and cut expenses, and if you do that, no matter what happens you're going to be in good shape if you're going to make more money if the economy keeps more money and you won't have the deficits and downturns that people are predicting. >> the word of the year last year was transitory in the -- with respect to inflation. it now sounds like the word of the year is persistent that seems to be what you are saying here.

how long do you think it's going to take before we get control over inflation and is a recession really a predicate for that >> i think it is going to take time and i think the high are interest rates -- i'm concerned, tyler, that the fed can overreact and send us into a deeper recession that's my fear right now that's why i want to see the business community get ahead of it so we can have a mild recession and not go too sharp, but i think the factors that are causing in some ways out of the fed's control. >> right >> i think interest rates, people still have to drive to work and they still have to eat ask put food on the table and it will cost more money to do it. i think you're right it's going to be persistent. i saw these in the '70s and of course, you had a massive recession because interest rates were so high and yent predict

that will happen, tyler, but i do think it will be with us, so get in front of it now and keep your concession still going. >> it's been a while thank so much for being with us. >> thanks for having me, tyler good to be back. >> you bet. >> a volatile trading session. has there been any other kind, lately the nasdaq is the big winner as the averages remain on pace for the biggest monthly gain of the year it's been a hot july so far. earnings catalysts are, and sky-high inflation as high as earnings keep meeting street expectations and the path of least resistance for stocks is up let's welcome david wagner, portfolio manager at capital advisers you're not too worried, it seems, about earnings falling off, are you >> no, tyler, i fully disagree with you i do think that the market's

path of least resistance is up in the near-term until we get more clarity on the speculated earnings apocalypse. i think this earning's apocalypse while it's not new news for the market, look at performance since may. the more recession-proof sectors have outperformed while energy has underperformed so the market i think understands a potential for a recession now. i think heading into the s&p 500 reporting is how much of this is already priced in, but i would first like to say they've been behind the curve right now in updatingest plats and you've seen them scramble ahead of q2 earnings season and we saw in the last five days 500 companies get some type of downgrade, and you haven't seen that magnitude in the financial crisis. >> i do not know what the

drawdown will be for the s&p 500 and what i do know is over the last five recessions the average pullback has been about 20%. so let's just say we have a mild recession, 15% to 17%, eps pullback, if you put it toward 2023 eps target that gives you a valuation for next year on the index of 19 times. i would leave it up to everyone else to determine if this market is expensive heading into earnings next week i would probably side on the -- yeah we probably are expensive. >> a little bit expensive if you're saying if they have the kind of earnings pullback you described there, 17% and a little less than normal in a recession at today's prices you would still be trading at what did you say? 19 times earnings? >> 19 times. >> why has growth been -- why has growth been outperforming value lately what's that tell you >> that's definitely been occurring really since may what i think it is, it's a

flight to safety we know a lot of these growth companies have recurring revenue right now. people want earnings stability and that's what historically growth has been doing right now, but more importantly, i think that might be telling you that the market is starting to believe that we could get some type of fed pivot right now and become more dovish we're pricing in rate cuts this year and that's with the market telling you that the market believes that we will obtain some type of rate cuts and you've seen, what? 15% to 20% just month to date. >> david, it's kelly here because my obsession is about the homebuilders if i'm not mistaken, you guys like pulte here? >> we very much like pulte >> d.r. horton came out with their earnings this morning. when i looked at them on the computer, i sent a message to my team, wow! that's horrible and that played into our book that you have to start looking at valuation i think a lot of the new investors in the market they

didn't care about valuations for probably the last five years, but right now you have to start looking at valuation d.r. horton was trading at 80% of next year's book value. pulte which i think is a higher quality book value, and they're more diverse with the entry level such as d.r. horton that they're more quality in my mind and still trading at more than book value i see that in the performance as it is priced in. >> david, we appreciate your perspective and there are a couple of soarities that david favors. >> cheers. coming up, a regional banking powerhouse and huntington bancshares up today they're up 10% this month. we have the ceo talking rates, growth and his view of the economy. we are live from frankfurt on what europe's largest economy is doing to end its addition to russian gas. as we head to break, a look at

the top performing stocks in today's top-performing sector which is consumer discretionary and we have tesla, las vegas sands and bath and bodyworks leading the way. we are awaiting the news conference from the white house with the president's health and testing positive for covid we'll bring it to you as soon as it begins.

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raise when it meets next week. it is outperforming the kbw bank this year as rates rise. huntington bancshares benefitting from the jump in rates. ohio based bank rising today as second-quarter earnings beat on strong loan growth there you see it up nearly 9% for a month. here for our "power lunch exclusive," the company's ceo mr. stephen steinauer. >> good to be with you >> the numbers looking back are very nice. what are they here 36 cents a share versus an estimate of 34 cents i'm wondering, though, as we got numbers earlier this week about a rapid decline in mortgage applications how that affects your business and how do you comp -- if mortgage applications and mortgage loans are rising

how do you compensate? >> mortgage rates started to move and the refi bubble ran out of steam so it's all home purchase now and that's already in the numbers so we compensated for the changes in mortgage. we have a number of growth industries and our card business and our treasury businesses all generate fee income that subplants the loss of mortgage revenue. okay you are seeing more, and i guess on the other hand, higher mortgage rates you get a little bit more probably with the net interest margin as those rates go up. let's talk about the corporate loan market which you cited as being particularly strong. do you see that continuing as we spend just the last few minutes talking with bill george about the possibility of a recession coming >> right for us, again -- the midwest regional bank with national specialties are large with

equipment finance number seven nationally and we have a very large inventory finance and a host of other national businesses, and they're all doing well and our lending activity across the bore has been strong through the second quarter and as we shared, our pipelines are strong going into the third quarter. typically for us because we're a large equipment finance retailer, the fourth quarter is a large quarter. our outlook is bullish in terms of loan demand and it's being driven by onshoring and by inflation impact on inventory so dollar adjusted and same volume and it's working capital and there's a continuing labor shortage and it's still a significant issue for business as it's been for the last several years particularly here in the midwest and there's a lot of capital investment going on, and we are extraordinarily large in that financing capagibility

>> i hope jim lebenthal was listening with capital investment and everything that you said you've been on the fed board in your regional fed board before and it sounds like a beige book that would paint a much healthier version of the economy than we have here on wall street. so inventory finance, can you speak to that? that's such a hot-button issue, and what does it reveal with the supply chains? >> you look at autos and our plan, if it were normalized, we have another $2 billion in outstanding loans. so we have an evolving situation that a bit episodic right now. china shuts down delivery out of the port and that has another round of disruption and we've seen that so far this year it's certainly what's going on in ukraine and the aftereffects of that are disruptive, as well. so historic supply chain efforts are improving and the is up play chain is getting better and

there are a new set of issues that have to be contended with >> stephen, thank you very much for the update and glad to hear the midwest are doing nicely >> go ahead. >> there's a bullishness and a concern about inflation and what that's going to mean for the economy. so there is a more cautionsary outlook, but businesses are doing well here and expanding. >> great to hear >> stephen, thank you so much. >> appreciate it >> that's why we like getting that on the ground perspective a major announcing spanning both climate and real estate, fifth wall just announced commitments of half a million to close the inaugural fund diana olick is here with more. >> fifth wall is the largest private fund specifically to decarbonize the industry according to a firm space that is wildly underfunded. >> the real estate industry over the last ten years has only

invested $100 million into the tech to decarbonize it, and that's kind of surprising because the numbers that are required to decarbonize the industry are staggering. so its estimated that in the u.s. alone to decarbonize the existing commercial building stocks, forget homes and infrastructure, just commercial buildings will cost $18 trillion >> the fund aims to invest in smart buildings, renewable energy, hardware, sort of wear, energy storage and carbon sequestration technologies its backers include big public names in commercial real estate from rental reits like camden property trust, equity financial and american homes for rent to hospitality like hilton, host hotels and mgm >> they're investing because they want actos to these technologies they see the investment to the real estate side of things and financial investors and in --

this is a generational investment opportunity >> in addition from the rooftops from a marketing standpoint, this is what his residents value most back to you guys. >> wow diana, thank you very much diana olick with that report we are awaiting a news conference from the white house on the latest after the president tested positive for covid. you see preparations there our shepard smith is standing by with more details. we know karine cest. pierre and dr. ashish jha for covid response will speak. they tweeted a video of him. it's short here, look at it >> hey, folks. guess you heard, this morning i tested positive for covid. i'm double vaccinated and double boosted. symptoms are mild, and i appreciate your concerns, but

i'm doing well i'm getting a lot of work done, and i continue to get it done, and in the meantime, thanks for your concern and keep the faith. it's going to be okay. >> it's going to be okay >> casual, on the balcony. just kind of letting people know he's all right they tell us day to day work is going to continue, but of course, the president will have to quarantine in the residence kayla tausche is with us, our senior white house correspondent. they've been really transparent all morning and i'm guessing he told the kids and grandkids first, but we learned mighty fast >> they've been transparent, but the protocol at the white house has been pretty strict even despite relaxed regulations on masking and distancing outside of the white house grounds, but here on campus, anyone who has been meeting with the president directly has been masked and distanced for months now one of the reasons why when there have been cases that have come out of the white house in the west wing in the past they were never considered to be a close contact of the president's because of those protocols even just this week i met with

someone in person who regularly meets with the president and the suggestion was that meeting would have to be masked. so that is one of the ways that this administration is keeping the trains running even as some of these cases continue popping up the white house has said for months that it would be a substantial possibility given such high community transmission that the president at some point would contract covid-19 and shep, we now know that day is today. >> he's on paxlovid which makes sense. it sort of fits the cdc guidelines he's, you know, 79 years old and a relatively high-risk category and he's been vaccinated, twice boosted and the white house doctors decided to go ahead and put him on paxlovid which is the antiviral which diminishes the symptoms i do wonder about the schedule going forward. he does have to be quarantined according to the white house until he tests negative, whenever that is >> we know, shep, that today is day zero for his car aquarantins

you know some of those trips will be cancelled and here's karine st. pierre along with ashish jha let's listen. >> in the interest of transparency i have the letter here, and i just want to read it through so we can get started -- before we get started. this morning as part of our routine screening program for the president the sars cov2 virus was detected by antigen testing. this result was subsequently confirmed by a pcr test. on questioning, president biden is currently experiencing mild symptoms, mostly a runny nose and fatigue with an occasional dry cough which started yesterday evening. given that he meets usa food and drug administration, fda, emergency use authority criteria for paxlovid, i have recommended initiating such treatment.

the president is fully vaccinated and twice boosted so i anticipate that he will respond favorably as most max mlly protected patients do early use of paxlovid in this case provides additional protection against severe disease. he will isolate in accordance to cdc recommendations. i will keep your office updated with any changes in his condition or treatment plan. i also wanted to provide you with a brief readout of the president's activities today the president has been working from the residence like so many of us have during this pandemic, doing calls with senior staff including the chief of staff, myself and dr. jha who is here with us. as we read out, the president also called senator casey, representative cartwright, mayors of scranton and mayor of

wilkesboro and representative clyburn, and the president called some of his cousins in scranton who were set to attend today's, vents in pennsylvania, and he speak with ambassador gidenstein and corn in you all have seen the photo and the video that was just released to all of you in transparency moments ago. the president will continue to work from the residence. today, as you all know and as i mentioned, dr. ashish jha our covid-19 response coordinator is joining us today in the briefing room, and as i tweeted out earlier, dr. jha and i spoke to the president this morning, and he said he's feeling fine, and he has a dry cough as i mentioned from the doctor's letter and a little runny nose, he's feeling tired, but he's working very hard on behalf of the american people and with that, dr. jha? >> good afternoon, everybody

pleased to be with you so as karine mentioned, i spoke to the president earlier, and i also spoke at length to dr. o'connor who is the president's personal physician, and i am happy to share the readout of these conversations with you, and then i'm happy to take questions. in terms of my conversation with the president, he sounded great. i asked him, you know, mr. president, how are you feeling he said i'm feeling fine he said he was feeling fine. he'd been working all morning. he hadn't been able to finish his breakfast because he'd been busy i encouraged him to finish his breakfast. in terms of my conversation with dr. o'connor, we talked at length about what happened this morning as karine mentioned, the president got his regular testing that he does on his regular cadence. after he tested positive, he reported these symptoms that have been described, dr. o'connor examined him thoroughly and found his exam to be normal,

to be at his baseline, and then obviously he recommended that the president take paxlovid and the president accepted that recommendation and has accepted paxlovid and has taken his first course already i want to also just take a minute to sort of mark this moment because the president is fully vaccinated and double boosted, his risk of serious illness is dramatically lower he is also getting treated with a very powerful antiviral, and that further reduces his risk of serious illness, and it's a reminder of the reason that we all work so hard to make sure that every american has the same level of protection that the president has, that every american has the same level of immunity and why we have worked so hard to make sure that people have access to life-saving treatments like paxlovid

these are incredibly important things for the president to have they're incredibly important things for every american to have, and we have worked very hard over the last 18 months to make sure we have plenty of vaccines, that we have plenty of therapies, that people can get tested on a regular basis as the president does because testing allows you to identify an infection early and get started with treatment early, and we all know from medicine that early treatment is always better let me also take a moment to talk about ba.5, if you listened to me at all in the last couple of weeks if you heard me talk about the subvariant of omicron which is now 78% of all infects iions inh united states. it's a reminder to everyone, if you are over 50, the way i am and many of you may be, if you're over 50 and have not gotten a vaccine shot, you need to go get one and go get one now

because it will dramatically improve your level of protection, reduce your rick of having serious illness it's the best thing that people can be doing let me just finish by saying, obviously, we work hard to protect the president, make sure that he's been vaccinated and boosted, has access to treatments we also have been very, very hard to make sure every american has access to the same things because every american deserves access to the best vaccines, the best treatments, and they are widely available, and i want to use this moment to remind everybody of that and to remind everyone to avail themselves of that get vaccinated if you have a breakthrough infection, get treated it's the best thing you can do to protect yourselves. let me stop and take questions, and i know you will, as well >> we'll both take questions go ahead, nancy. >> thank you dr. jha, has the president been tested to determine which variant? is it ba.5 what does that say about the

prognosis? >> the virus has been sent out for sequencing and it takes about a week and that's normal circumstances. he's the president, and he'll be prioritized and we'll have an answer sooner than that, but you can't tell which variant and the sequencing will be back in less than a week. >> has the president had to halt any of his regular medications now that he's taking pks layoff paxlovid and what are you doing to mitigate this >> i had a conversation with this with dr. o'connor he's onneler quist and a blood thinner for atrial fibrillation. both need to be stopped when taking paxlovid and it's a standard thing when taking paxlovid and you don't need to do anything under the circumstances and they get stopped and then they get started and then fine and pretty normal practice.

[ inaudible question ] >> where was he infected i don't think we know. i certainly don't know, if you have any thoughts on it? >> i don't think that matters, right? i think what matters is we prepared for this moment i think what matters is what dr. jha just laid out. if we look at where we were a year and a half ago, this is a president -- when he walked in one of his first priorities was to make sure we had a com pro hencive plan to get people vaccinated and now look to today, more and more people are getting closer to having a more normal life. vaccines are available and as dr. jha said if you have not gotten vaccinated, please do if you've not gotten boosted, please do. these are -- these are treatments that are going to keep you safe, and i think that's what matters here is making sure that we continue to do the work and the good thing is that the president, again, has been vaccinated and double boosted. >> we know that rebound covid

cases have been a concern in some individuals who take paxlovid are there precautions you can take to prevent that and how concerned are you that that could potentially hinder his return to the office >> great question. let me tell you what we know about rebounds so we've looked at the clinical data on this because if you -- if you look at twitter, it feels like everybody has rebound, but it turns out there's clinical data if you look at major health systems that have given out paxlovid to tens of thousands of people, rebound rates are around 5% some say 8%, some say 2%, but it's in the single digits, so it happens, but not thatty freque. when people end up with a rebound they don't end up in the hospital and too sick. paxlovid keeps people from getting seriously ill. his physician is in charge of taking care of him and obviously the president will continue to be monitored as he is, but

paxlovid is, working very well, rebound or no rebound and that's why he was offered it and that's why he took it. >> the symptoms -- >> there you go. the update is the president is doing pretty well. he's vaxed and double boosted and he'll keep working and stay away and from everybody else and sounds like our house and so many people at cnbc. the virus comes and the virus goes and kelly and tyler, we're learning. >> exactly, shep so many people these days are coming down with it and it's a very transmissible variant and the most recent ba.5 variant is the one these come down with we'll have more on the news with you tonight. >> yes, r.si >> back to what we do is follow the markets and we'll do some of that after this short break.

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welcome back, everybody. let's take a glance at the markets with 90 minutes to go here into the bell we want to get caught up across stocks, bonds, commodities and the latest on europe's energy

crisis let's start down with bob pisani at the new york stock exchange where stocks have erased -- the dow has erased a pretty sizeable loss, bob. >> that's right. the s&p has been positive since 11:00 eastern time the dow is now flat on the day here's what's important. they are continuing to pick at the growth story this has been just huge in the last week or so. all of the growth sectors and the s&p has been going up. cathie woods' ark funds have had a great one or two weeks they're up and that's an inflationary indicator and that's moving to the down side as far as what else is moving, travel stocks having a tough time of it and think, we had the airlines reporting, but they've had a very nice run in the last couple of weeks. so that's not surprising, perhaps they're down today on their earnings report. travel, of course, we said

carnival a billion dollars in new stock sales out there, and that was a little bit of a surprise to the market, i think, but again, both of the cruise lines have been doing very well, recently. as far as what's going on with energy stocks. i want to show you now, three up days and now a down day and the bears want that, because that's the indication that we'll have some kind of move in oil today oil's at $96 right now and the key also, kelly, mega-cap tech stocks holding up very well throughout the day back to you. >> big move lower in oil and we'll have that in a moment, bob, thanks. we saw yields drop significantly and then kind of stabilize rick santelli, what can you tell us >> they stabilized double digits we'll have double digits from twos all of the wait down to tens and look at the two-day chart below yesterday's lows and look at the two-day charts of tens and below yesterday's lows

and, ell, consider the philly index, at an eight-month low and we see the leading economic indicators have four consecutive negative months in a row and it hasn't happened since the end of '15 and the beginning of '16 let's shift gears in just a bit. let's look at a year to date of boons and they settled their third session in a row lower in yield and if you look at it intraday of euro versus dollar, lagarde said in her press conference that the euro was below parity in the intraday basis and it was to juice up the currency, but it didn't get juice. it failed. it fell sharply as you look at the intraday chart from the intraday highs and? and energy prices on the verge of recession at 50 and it sounded good until you think about it the transmission protection instrument and that's

the secret tool, the crisis tool, but it wasn't explained very well and that was really the reason the traders i talked to didn't stay long the euro and started buying boons back to you. kelly, back to you. >> thank you very much let's get all of the details there as it's down $96 a barrel and we're watching nat gas, as well pippa stephens, what's the latest >> oil is dipping and nat gas is as well into the close and still hovering around the $8 level you can see on the chart the jump off the lows at 11:00 a.m. and that was after the inventory report that showed a smaller than expected build during the prior week and it is still on here 13% of track and over in europe, nat gas prices have retreated and are down for the week and in the uk surging another 16% today, and up 56% for the week energy stocks underperforming today, as well, but there are notable outperformers in the last week including, kelly, lng

plays like eqt and cheniere. >> pippa, thanks let's pick it up with europe's growing energy crisis. you know nat gas flows have re-started from russia to germany and it doesn't solve russia's problem which is permanently getting off the russian gas. brian has more >> decades former german chancellor helmut coal said we shouldn't do gas, russia ended up being more than half just before putin started the war cheap natural gas too hard for germany to ignore and russian dependence on russian gas would be higher if the nord stream 2 pipeline, and it may never operate and we'll see, time will tell now germany realizes, obviously way too late that it has a big

russia problem, but germany needs the power that natural gas provides and it is the biggest consumer of nat gas, and german homes have nat gas which means that 20% of the homes injewelr for heat during the winter in it seems insane given the history. so what is germany doing in the short term and long term to get off the russian gas addiction? a couple of things consumption, it will import lng and you were talking about teleyou are onand all of that is on the gas side and what about the other types of ways to make electricity? renewables, of course, are a big and growing part wind and solar make up, depending on the day, 40 to 45 of the power generation mixed with the goal of getting 80% in just eight years some of that will be hydrogen or maybe rooftop solar and some

will be utility scale solar, but you know what? that can't come online in the short term germany is doing anything it doesn't want to, but it has to do and that is bringing coal back online. it's converting some gas plants to oil, and there is even now talk of not shutting down the final three nuclear power plants that are scheduled to go offline at the end of the year one sad, but true fact, much the wind power and the north part of germany and they're having trouble getting power lines built to run the power from the north to the south because, get this, wealthier people who tend to be in the south don't want ugly power lines to be built nimbyism, not in my backyard, apparently, not just an american issue. >> that doesn't shock me and it's a reminder of the challenges they face thank you very much, brian

sullivan let's talk about nat gas prices. where do they go from here our next guest says it's the best time. bill, this thing whipsaws, though are you suggesting it's only going higher from here >> no. i'm not suggesting that. natural gas is a dangerous game and you have to get a handle on many fundamentals to get the direction right both on the short term and the long term the upside risk, particularly in yours is much greater than a downside risk. whap about renew abs and plan some doing and they're not on lng imports and things break and take down, but a profitable gain. >> you've shown that with gains

of 182% last year on one of your funds and year to date so far this year and 100% last year if i am an individual investor who -- who is of the mind that the price of natural gas is going to rise over the next nine months because of the various complex of influences that are at work, how is the smartest way for me to play it if i don't have the skills of a bill perkins or the capital of skylark? >> well, i think you can look at -- if you're interested in the gas, unhedged producers that are out there, occidental petroleum and people that have run an efficient operation or simply an etf on gas there are gas etfs out there that you you can purchase and limit, and put these small amount of capital at work with the commodity that natural gas

is and feel safe at night that clearing houses will not call you and wake you up and bust you out of your position >> because you bought futures and you were way things go horribly wrong we have the break down and blow up when things were extremely bullish and then things looked bearish for a minute and then we had pretty much record heat in the past two weeks basically erasing all of the things brought back to the united states of america or not exported, rather from chinniere going wrong. things do happen and it's not for the faint of heart, but it's a wonderful product to trade >> where, bill, is it going next >> wow you know, if you talked to me before the freeport lng plant

had blown up, i would have said it's going straight up that relief to the american consumer back in the usa kind of threw a wet blanket on the bulk trade. although the weather has got me slightly bullish again in the short term and in the long term, never bet against the american producer they will be growing supply steadily throughout the year through the winter and into next year and so i would say that the tail end of domestic prices seem to be going lower on the flip side, in europe i would have a bullish tinge for quite some time. >> that's saying something our prices have doubled and they can keep going >> phil, it's good to check in with you we appreciate it >> bill perkins with skylar

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welcome back, everybody. time for today's three stock lunch. we'll focus on three movers that are also double-digit losers so far this year. carnival sinking after saying it would sell a billion dollars worth of new stock docusign lower after a downgrade to underweight from piper sandler and amazon higher after announcing it will buy one medical for nearly $4 billion. jeff kilberg, cnbc contributor, here live in studio. jeff, it is great to have you here let's start with carnival, shall we whenever a company has to raise capital, particularly one that raised debt not that long ago, you start to wonder. >> very expensive, ty, no doubt about it wonderful to be here in person with you and kelly carnival the last five years is

down 85% so i don't want to be using the same you don't want to buy a sinking ship so i'm not touching this you see a overreaction today this is very expensive capital rates but they have 2023 debt maturities they have to meet so that's a tough chart, ty. >> so this is a -- if you own it, what do you do if you don't own it, stay away from it. >> if you own it, i think you stay buoyed here otherwise you sell and don't touch this until you get a little certainty. >> let's see if you get a little more positive on docusign. what about that one? >> i was just over in short hills, new jersey, with my lovely folks at sky path wealth. what we talk about in every wealth management or banking and lending, everything is secure and transacted on docusign i know this is a tough chart year to date, down 77% on a one-year perspective if you look at the value here, but with a 39 times forward pe ratio, it makes a ton of sense

i continue to see docusign being utilized in every possible way no matter what the sector is it's part of the fabric in wealth management. >> still kind of high. >> very expensive. let's move on to one that is in a lot of people's portfolios, amazon announcing a deal today to buy a major medical provider. it's a multi-billion dollar deal as they try to nibble into the medical care market. >> well, they're the disruptor, right? so i want to be a buyer here of amazon own amazon we think it's an essential name. at the end of the day, this is fascinating. when you talk about one medical, the bricks and mortar component, they're going to try to reconfigure and reimagine the way we consume health care i really like this i will take a drink of this third stock here without a doubt. am amazon, it's going to be interesting how they move forward. to your pyour point, a lot morel own this after the stock split.

>> so have a shot of amazon, huh? >> yes, indeed >> great to see you. >> great to see you. is it time to panic or time to party the price of ethereum may be under pressure but that's not stopping crypto developers from throwing a very lively gig in paris. joining us live from the paris ethereum community conference is mckenzie segalos how hot is it in paris >> reporter: it's wonderful. >> take it away. tell us about this conference and what's going on. >> reporter: so the vibe here is overwhelmingly positive. people are thrilled that the grifters have been washed out and the developers left behind are building real utility. there's a lot of optimism around the fact this is years in the making and it's actually happening in september so today the creator of ethereum gave a keynote on the main stage

pointing to all the benefits of the merge, as it's called, including that it will make ethereum so much faster, scaleable, more energy efficient and lower the price of gas fees. >> so we've got a situation where i'm sensing that people are more encouraged than not are there some there who are worried there are more shoes to drop in the industry >> no. no so much of the conversation is not about the market, it's about the underlying fundamentals. the conversation that i've had with virtually every single person at this point is that the crypto contagion effect has been contained. so we're talking about centralized finance and decentralized finance. celsius and digital voyager, their yields weren't real so 20% apy with no collateral involved. and your platforms like ave and

compound that are overcollateralized and this is where you're seeing real yield in the market. people here aren't worried about the recent erosion of confidence among investors because even though there's less liquidity flowing, the bankruptcies are cleaning out the system and exposing vulnerabilities. >> what's the general mood on a topic where we see each day bringing new information about insider trading and lawsuits and bankruptcies and all the rest of it what's the atmosphere like >> reporter: it hasn't fazed people they're just so confident in the fact that those people looking to make an easy buck have been washed out so what you're leaving are developers and crypt gr cryptographers -- nobody has been sleeping this week. they're bouncing to all of these ancillary events there are dozens of blockchain parties happening across the city folks snuck into the catacombs

tonight the hot ticket to have is rave's party. if i get a ticket i'll report back on how that goes. >> i find a certain irony amidst all the turmoil in cryptocurrency that they would have a party in the catacombs where the bones reside that feels a little ironic to me. >> reporter: that's the thing, they're so completely separate we're talking about the top developers and cryptographers on the planet what is the latest in tech, what is being developed that people aren't talking about yet so there are no panels or opining it's about getting into the weeds of the code. >> next time, take us along.

>> reporter: what can i bring back what do you want >> a croissant there is never a bad time to visit paris. you can read all of her stories from paris on cnbc.com. >> i'm still chuckling i hope she gets into the party with the defi degens thanks for watching "power lunch. everybody. >> "closing bell" starts right now. see you tomorrow. the nasdaq once again driving the market action as the major averages build on a solid week of gains here the dow is lagging, just turning positive, up 4 points as we head into the close the most important hour of trading starts now welcome, everyone, to "closing bell." i'm sara eisen take a look at where we stand in the market the nasdaq adding another percent. it's up 5% this week heading into a friday. s&p up half a percent. the losers, energy, because oil prices are down today. communication services, at&t's a big part of that story, consumer staples and utilities. check ou