to finish. oh, well >> i thought they came out well but i always got complaints at home that there wasn't enough food that's no way to make money in the long run. >> it's been a great week. >> it has. >> nice to be you. >> i will see you next week. thanks for watching "power lunch," everybody. >> "closing bell" starts right now. stocks are at session highs here, pacing for another winning week, the fourth in a row for the nasdaq and s&p 500 the most important hour of trading starts now welcome, everyone, to "closing bell." happy friday i'm sara eisen take a look at where we standing, 58 points higher on the s&p is the high of the day as i mentioned, every sector is higher, up 1.4% on the s&p 500 the best performing sector is information technology but consumer discretionary is right behind there's a number of sectors up 1% materials, communication services, financials, utilities, all up 1%. real estate and health care too.

energy is the laggard but it's higher by a third of 1%. check out some of the biggest winners on the dow this week disneys wa twas the biggest winner dow chemical, travelers, caterpillar and goldman sachs. coming up today, eric jackson is bringing his growth stock shopping list. he'll tell us whether he thinks a tech comeback has more room to run. remember, he said we saw bottom a month ago back in june so far that's looking like a good call. plus jp goldman chief economist michael feroli, the economic impact on the inflation reduction act and whether it will help ease inflation the house is meeting today to vote on this legislation, which has already made its way through the senate our kayla tausche is in washington with the latest do we expect a vote here, kayla? >> well, we are waiting on that, sara the house is currently debating the bill and is expected to vote to pass it this hour the impact on inflation of this

specific bill is still years away according to moody's. economists at penn wharton wrote the impact on inflation is statistically indistinguishable than zero. last week kamala harris cast the tie-breaking vote as what's seen as the last major piece of legislation before the midterm election which will begin in earnest when lawmakers return in september. the white house is expected to seize on these recent wins to push an us versus them narrative on the campaign trail. president biden's top communications aides in a memo wrote this year during the recess the white house will drive home one clear message to the american people. the president and congressional democrats beat the special interests and delivered what was best for the american people every step of the way, they write, congressional republicans sided with the special interests, pushing an extreme maga agenda that costs families. president biden is on vacation at kiawah island, south carolina, but is expected to sign it very soon after it passes the house

>> keep us posted, kayla tausche, thank you for more on the bill let's bring in michael feroli who actually published on the topic how about the question dujuor which is does it actually reduce inflation. what do you think? >> kayla mentioned a few outside analysis of this issue and i would agree with that, which is at least over the next four to eight quarters we don't see a big impact on gdp growth or on inflation. that's not to comment on the advisability or the yip advisability of the act overall. when you look at the contours of the business cycle there's not addition or subtraction over the near to medium horizon that it would really affect the inflation impact nor to we see prescription drugs having enough importance to have a -- move the needle big time on

inflation over the next one or two years. >> and gdp as well, you don't expect it to have any move on growth >> not a big impact. it should reduce the deficit by 0.1 of 1% over the next year. when you think about how much that's going to restrain aggregate expenditures in the overall economy, that's really not enough to move the needle here on the growth picture either so as you look out in the five to ten-year horizon, it does become a little more significant. but i think for most viewers who are more focused on the next yea year or two, we don't see it as a big game-changer for the outlook. >> i know you're looking at the macroeconomic impacts of this bill, but one thing i wanted to just run by you is people are trying to make sense of what the impact will be of the buyback tax and whether it will incentivize dividends versus buybacks bemo said it could hurt ratios

and lead to ratings downgrades because companies will be slower to reduce dividends than cut share buybacks than do more dividends than share buybacks. >> at the margin it should incentivize dividends over buybacks there are a number of other timing advantages still to buybacks from a timing perspective. and it will on net lead to a modest increase in the cost of capital for corporations but again, the impact should be pretty limited so when i said the impact overall of this bill should be limited, that's also, i think, in that same category, which is the assets are a modest increase in the cost of capital but not something that we think is another big game changer for the capital spending outlook for corporations. >> no, but i hadn't thought of that, increasing credit risk so here we are, fourth week in a

row of solid gains for the stock market, which continues to cheer signs that inflation is easing at the same time, it does feel like investors are fighting the fed. what do you think? >> so, look, what i would say about inflation is that this has been a good week not a great week, right? so we had a nice surprise -- downside surprise on cpi a lot of that seemed to be driven by some of the more volatile components. when we look at the more persistent underlying components of inflation, we still have an inflation problem. when we look back at last friday, we still have wage inflation growing well in excess of productivity growth so the battle isn't won here now, are investors fighting the fed? hard to say, right if you price in some risk of a recession next year, which doesn't seem crazy, you're going to have a downward slope in yield curve over the near to medium term. but i certainly see the fed remaining pretty aggressive here

and i think you heard that in the rhetoric coming out of them from even since the cpi report so they know they have a lot of work to do here. the cpi and the ppi and the import prices, they were all nice, but we shouldn't kid ourselves. we still have a lot of work to do, i think, in restraining higher demand, getting some slack in the labor market to put it in better balance we haven't even really begun with that, particularly if you look at last friday's jobs report so hard to know exactly -- >> so do you think the market is wrong thinking that the fed pivots after this year and starts cutting >> so what i would say is the fed, i think our view is still 75 basis points looks likely for september. i don't think they are going to be cutting at the first sign of weakening in the economy and i thought actually president barkin's remarks today were a

good reminder of the lesson from the 1970s, which is that at that period one of the mistakes was the so-called stop policy which at the first sign of weakness they cut rates i think they learned that lesson and i think they will be pretty patient watching the economy slow and waiting for real definitive evidence of inflation slowing before they do cut rates. so in that respect i think the market may be a little optimistic about how friendly the fed is going to be with respect to growth and to perhaps the market itself. i think they realize the number one job here is getting inflation under control. doing that is not going to be consistent with cutting at the first sign of, you know, a payroll number that's below 100,000 or even a negative payroll number i think they'll be pretty patient and look through that for a number of months >> but you're also out of step with just even the september

expectations, which have gone down after the cpi report to 50 basis points you're hanging on to 75. why? didn't powell tell us last time that we were at the neutral rate >> so i guess i would say three things one is it's a close call between 50 and 75. two is there's a lot of data between now and the september meeting, including the august payroll report, the august cpi report and three, as i said, while this was a good week for inflation and hence a good week for the 50 basis point camp, i don't think it was a slam dunk week. some of the more persistent components of the cpi are still running pretty hot so we'll see between now and mid-september how things shake out. i wouldn't be surprised if perhaps we have to adjust our views again in one way or another, but there is, as i said, a lot of data between now and then.

>> and another cpi report and another jobs report both for the month of august. mike, thank you very much. have a good weekend. appreciate it. we have a news alert on meta and doordash julia boorstin with the details. >> doordash is teaming up with meta's facebook marketplace. this will enable drivers for doordash to deliver items sold in facebook marketplace up to 15 miles away the deliveries will have to fit into the trunk of a car and they would be made within 48 hours of a purchase this aims to be a win-win. doordash has been looking to expand beyond food and it could also help grow the appeal of facebook marketplace and offer that delivery after purchases. facebook marketplace has reportedly been quite popular with younger users who of course are a key demographic for social it comes as facebook and all the social platforms try to push more into e-commerce it is valuable in no small part

because e -commerce makes it easier to measure the importance of ads. the nasdaq is now up more than 20% off the lows of the year, 23% to be exact. we'll ask eric jackson whether the tech rally has more upside and why he says one household name could triple in a year. he will name it for us you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc with the dow at the highs of the day, 368 points finding the perfect designer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in austin between a fresh bowl of matcha and a fresh batch of wireframes. and you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com ♪ ♪ we all need a rock we can rely on. to be strong.

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look at the nasdaq, it is up more than 20% from the june lows will the rally continue? joining us is eric jackson from emj capital. yes, eric, we remember a month ago that you told us you thought we had seen the lows in june and clearly that was a really good call but there are still some saying the market is getting ahead of itself we just heard from mike feroli of jpmorgan who said it doesn't look like the fed will cut any time soon and this is just a bear market rally. what do you think? >> well, yeah, two weeks ago we kept hearing that it's a short covering, it's a bear market rally, we haven't seen capitulation yesterday if i had a nickel for every time i've heard that from someone over the last couple of months and yet the market keeps going and so i think there's -- another favorite was wait for the e in pe to come down for earnings season. we're pretty much done tech earnings at least now

and i think we can say unequivocally it was a fantastic earnings part of the reason why stocks have done so well coming out of earnings is because they were sold off so much in the first half of this year. at some point price matters, and we don't know when that point comes, but it appears that for some tech stocks it was may 12th, for others it was june 16th i believe that those were the bottoms. >> was it a fantastic earnings or was it just a less bad than feared earnings with a pretty good setup >> obviously it's case by case carvana, basically you had probably a majority of folks thinking they were going to tip into bankruptcy. you know, anything that proved that they weren't going stratoeo get 30% of the float or whatever it was short to start covering but that stock, i think it bottomed at around $20 and it's

up in mid-july and it's up 150% since. other names have had stellar earnings, names like apple and people like that, some of the bigger tech stocks i think have had solid earnings so it varies in terms of each individual story on why they have rallied but the rallies are here bad news is being met with rallies, which is obviously much different from the first half of the year. >> well, let's hit carvana because you have liked this on the show before and i don't know what your price is, eric, which matters because as you noted it hit 20 and is at 50 now. but it was at 315 a year ago so this has still been a disaster. >> yeah, it -- i mean it dropped something like 75% and then, you know, when people thought the coast was clear, it dropped another 75%. so i do own it i still -- i own it. you know, i think at $20 it was too cheap. even at $50 here it's something that i'm still

holding and i think it can still rally from here because, again, this sort of specter of bankruptcy hanging over it you know, if they can skirt that, they can continue to do well they have invested in this infrastructure across the country that services used cars today, but they could get into new cars, get into fleet management, but they have to prove it one of the other things i said to you previously, sara, is that forget about profitless tech you really want to think about what stocks might be losing money today but a year from now, two years from now they could be major free cash flow gushers carvana, the jury is still out they have never been a free positive cash flow company since they became public but say they have religion now, they have commitment to do so, they have a number of insider buys at 20 bucks so we'll have to see but i'm holding it for now. >> another group you like -- you like uber and lyft for this

reason, where you see the move to cash flow positive. and they have had great recoveries, eric but i wonder if people are still convinced on whether these companies can pull off the balance between growth and profitability? >> well, i think when you look back at some of the best returning stocks in the history of the stock market, it's been these cases where a lot of people thought there's a company that is a bad business it's going out of business and suddenly they prove the market wrong i point to amazon in 2001 after years of losses, suddenly they flipped to free cash flow positive and the stock took off and never looked back. tesla in 2019. in 2018 a lot of people thought the company was going under. 2019 was a record free cash flow for them and the stock had a major upswing. so those are the kind of stocks that you want to look for.

and for me when i look at the stock universe today in tech, i would definitely put uber at the top of the list. i also own uber, i own lyft because i think they're going to come along for the ride. they're less close to being free cash flow positive but in the recent earnings report from uber last week, dara showed that this is a company that now has firmly moved into being free cash flow positive. i think he's made commitments that it's going to stay that way and grow from here and so it is one where typically when that happens, there's a serious rerating that happens in these stocks i think uber was forgotten about. it's majorly underowned by a lot of institutional investors and hedge funds. a lot of people over the last two weeks are saying this thing went from 23 to now 33 where's it going to go a year from now it is the stock that i think could triple a year from now if

they keep up the free cash flow positive. >> big call. eric, thank you for joining us with some of your recent ideas appreciate it. let's give you a check of the markets right now. zooming ahead, up 372 on the dow, almost a 3% gain for the week the nasdaq is up 3% for the week information technology leads the s&p 500, up 1.5%. you just heard the case for some growth stocks coming up, charlie will be here to talk about the value trade and why they prefer that. plus, we'll tell you about the news that sent peloton shares sharply higher. and as we head to break check out some of the top search tickers. 10-year takes the top spot we're seeing buying today with yields under a little pressure, 2.846. amazon, amd, tesla and disney. those are all the winners. it's apple, tesla, microsoft and nvidia leading the nasdaq right now. we'll be right back.

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we are sitting near session highs. time for the market dashboard. mike santoli is here taking a look at how financial conditions have really loosened over the past few weeks, maybe not what the fed would like to see. >> it seems to be running counter to what they're attempting to do the question is is it too much there's been a massive tension release and it continues today investors realize they could take on more risk or didn't own enough risk if markets are going to rally this is a proxy for that risk appetite and liquidity you can see it's rarely gotten looser faster over the last couple of years. it rivals november when the nasdaq peaked. obviously yields are down, credit spreads are tighter, equities are up and volatility is down. that's the question, sara. is it too much of accommodation by the markets that counters what the fed is going to do. so far investors feel like there's room enough to take on more risk and have conditions

loosen without necessarily threatening a further hawkis turn by the fed. >> the dollar has been weakening too. mike, thank you. we'll see you next hour. up next, the ceo of wheaton precious metals on the outlook for silver prices and why his company can give investors exposure to the fast-growing solar industry we'll be right back on "closing bell" with the dow up 352.

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we've got some news to tell you about on the fbi search of mar-a-lago let's get to kayla tausche in washington for the latest. kayla. >> sara, the department of justice just filing a notice saying that president trump, the former president and his legal team, do not oppose the unsealing of a search warrant related to the search of mar-a-lago earlier this week once a judge signs off on that, then that document will be unsealed but in the meantime, nbc news has obtained the document. it's a four-page search warrant authorizing specific searches of the residence at the mar-a-lago resort which they state as the 45 office, as it's known, any storage rooms and any other rooms currently being used by the president. it directed the seizure of any documents noted as classified or boxes in which classified documents might be stored. specific information related to national defense in particular was being sought

the two-page search receipt shows at least 33 documents or boxes itemized in that list retrieved. they include the clemency documents for roger stone, information about the president of france, and miscellaneous documents categoryized as sensitive or for those with top secret security clearance. in all, 11 sets of documents deemed classified were retrieved. 20 boxes in total. also several binders of photos sara, more as we know it. >> kayla tausche with the story unfolding waiting on that judge's ruling on the motion before the warrant is officially unsealed. shares of wheaton precious metals, hard turn here, in the green right now after initially falling when the company reported lower production than expected and lordwered the long-term production guidance. joining us is the ceo of wheaton precious metals, welcome. >> great to be here. >> i want to start with the other unfolding story in d.c.

which is the potential house vote here this afternoon on the inflation reduction act and the help that would give to the solar industry because silver, as i understand it, is critical in production. is that something that you are hoping for, using in terms of the demand >> definitely following. you know, 40% of our revenue comes from silver. silver has one unique at btribue it conducts electricity better than any other metal we need it in our smartphones, if you want your batteries to last longer, more processing power, more capacity, silver is part of the equation it really plays a role in solar panels in terms of making sure that the solar panels generate as much energy as they can so silver is found to outperform based on these increasing demands all the time >> i was going to say, silver has underperformed gold lately, even with that industrial use. >> you know, all i can do is look at the fundamentals

we don't see any increasing silver production around the world. most silver comes as a byproduct from lead szinc mines we see supply side pressure but on the demand side we see more than 60% is consumed in high efficiency products like solar panels, water purification systems. and so overall, we just see all the fundamentals are there but you're right, it hasn't had its move yet it always lags gold. we have seen some strength in gold i'm happy to see gold up over $1800 today and showing continued strength silver always lags gold but it has been a long time coming. just look at the fundamentals, they're there to support it. >> it doesn't help that you've had a stronger dollar over the last, i don't know, year or so at least, randy. what about gold, what are the

prospects for gold if we do enter recession? usually there's a pretty strong demand for gold at the time, right? >> exactly it's proven looking across all the different metrics out there, gold has proven yet again to be the solid measure of value, the solid store of value we have seen a strong u.s. dollar for the last six months which has taken gold from $2,000 down to the $1,700 but we're on our way up again it looks like a new basement for gold it wouldn't surprise me to see gold well over $2,000 within a couple of years here. >> randy, thank you for joining us with your bullish outlook on gold and silver. we appreciate it good to check in from wheaton. here's where we stand right now in the market. up about a percent on the dow. s&p 500 up 1.5%. we're just off the highs of the session. it's a broad rally we've got every sector higher in the s&p. a number of the sectors higher than 1%. technology leads along with consumer discretionary and the nasdaq is up almost 2% with

tesla, amazon and nvidia leading the way. it's been a big week for meme stocks as well, bed, bath and beyond and amc. coming up, we'll discuss whether meme mania is back for real or not. you can always listen to "closing bell" on the go by inthe closing bell podcast on your favorite podcast app back in a moment ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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its unlimited wash club. up next, charlie bobrinskoy and lori calvasina debate. plus meme stock mania rolls on and peloton pops. all of that when we take you inside the market zone the dow hanging in with a 0-ingain we'll be right back.

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power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities. while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. we are in the "closing bell" market zone. charlie bobrinskoy and lauren

thomas on peloton with new reporting and lori calvasina on the growth stocks. charlie, i'll kick it off with you and the broader market it looks like a strong finish for the fourth week in a row s&p is up almost 15% or so off the lows it's predicated on this idea that we've seen the worst of inflation and that the fed is going to react to that do you think that's right? >> sort of right, sort of wrong. i do think people are overfocused on the direction of change, too much focus on the derivative so inflation is communeative the order doesn't matter so people get too excited about a change in the rate of

inflation. we still have very high inflation. we still have very negative real rates of interest. and negative interest rates prop up growth stocks and are relatively good when they change to value stocks. i said a lot there, but people are too positive about a decline from very high inflation rates >> you don't think it's more important that the inflation rate is falling than the absolute level, that it's still high >> i'm so glad you followed up on this because this is one of the real misunderstandings that people have. if your daughter graduated from eighth grade last year, in four years you're going to have to right a college tuition check. if inflation goes 5, then 6, then 7, then 8, it makes no difference than if it's 8 then 7 then 6 then 5. what's happened is there's been a massive erosion of the purchasing power of a dollar last year 7.5%, this year's 8

plus will mean that you can buy 15% less stuff with your money than you could two years ago that's what matters. not the direction in the rate of change. >> well, i think a lot of people do disagree that the direction of travel is important but i do want to bring in some sound to this conversation because earlier today thomas barkin discussed on cnbc what the fed will have to do to get inflation to a comfortable range. listen >> we're happy to see inflation start to move down i'd like to see a period of sustained inflation under control. until we do that, i think we're just going to have to continue to move rates into restrictive territory. >> which sort of goes to both points but the obvious point from the fed, and his message is the same as some of the messages we've heard post that inflation report is that they have a lot of unfinished business here. >> absolutely. and they're right about that finally after having been very

late to the game but they're taking -- there have been all kinds of articles the last couple of days taking way too many victory laps over a decline in the rate. that's the point i'm glad we are spending time on this because it is important it is much worse to go from 8 to 7 than to go from 2 to 3 it is not the rate -- the change in the rate, it's the purchasing power of the dollar that matters. >> understood, charlie so you're still investing for an inflationary environment is the bottom line? >> that's a great way to put it. at a 3% 10-year when we are going to have absolutely north of 5% inflation next year and we're going to have more than 2.8% over the next ten years means we've got negative real interest rates and that's got big implications for whether you should own bonds and big implications for growth stocks, which clearly have a tailwind of

this very low real interest rate environment, which i think will revert back to mean. >> and meme stocks too have been enjoying the party as well let's talk about those shares of bed, bath and beyond soaring again. luke capital isn't buying the rally. the firm reissuing a bearish note the analyst believes this week's huge rally is likely a meme stock short squeeze. amc also having a pretty decent week with a more than 10% gain the stock is lower right now but did pop after the ceo adam aron tweeted this to promote the launch of preferred equity, which will trade beginning august 22 nd, frank holland join us just when you thought they were down and out, the meme stock traders are back what do you hear >> well, they are back on wall street bets. they are sending out memes and talking about different stocks because it's not clear if it's a full-blown reversion to the meme

but a similar formula is at play you look at bed, bath and beyond and gameamc, they are outperfor. u.s. steel is trading in line with the s&p and amc is in the red. it popped earlier off that tweet. so you're seeing kind of a mixed response to everything that you're seeing out there. you also look at each of the top four stocks that are the most mentioned and memed on wall street bets. anything above 10% short interest, that's elevated. above 20%, that's extremely high but the volume trading is not as consistent bed, bath and beyond you would associate with retail traders looking to do that short squeeze, much less that mother of all short squeezes that we saw. what we have seen in recent months is retail trading getting excited about meme stocks in spurts or when there's specific

opportunities like the elevated short interest in bed, bath and beyond but not a full-blown return to that movement. >> so what do you hear, frank, about whether it has legs, whether this rally can continue off of a 55, 56% jump we've seen in bed, bath an beyond this week does it just depend if rates stay low or if we march back higher on interest rates, is this wiped out again >> i'm not sure about that in the fundamentals even that luke capital note says it's not clear if this is moving any direction on fundamentals. but you go on wall street bets and there's a mix of people saying let's try to do another short squeeze and other people sort of incredulous, like what's going on the idea is that amc will have a preferred equity offering and not the amc ticker itself. so a lot of confusion even about exactly what's going on. but you get people going on these sites and these different retail traders and you can pile into a trade with some people

maybe not being fully aware of why they're doing it. >> yeah. frank holland, thank you very much you can catch more on the meme trade tonight. we've got a special "return of the retail trader" 6:00 p.m. eastern time right here on cnbc. let's hit peloton shares they're popping after the ceo wrote that the exercise equipment company is cutting nearly 800 jobs, closing an unspecified number of stores and raising the prices of some products lauren thomas joins us lauren, i feel like this happens every few months for peloton no >> yeah, absolutely. no, it is a bit of deja vu you remember back in february, massive overhaul in peloton. that's when the ceo, barry mccarthy, took the reins from the founder of the company and peloton announced this $800 million restructuring plan it said it was going to cut about 2,800 jobs

just fast forward a few months later and here we are again with more cuts. barry mccarthy has made it very clear since taking the reins at peloton, achieving profitability and getting peloton back in the position where it is making money and has free cash flow is a top priority for him today the easier question to ask is where is peloton not making cuts like you said, about 800 jobs are being removed. the company is going to aggressively close its retail stores it has about 86 of them today. it's also getting out of last mile logistics on the flip side, it's raising the price of its bike plus and treadmill machine, but certainly a lot of changes all with that goal of getting peloton back to making money. >> is there any evidence that that is happening, lauren, that mccarthy is succeeding in turning this around? >> definitely. in this memo to employees today, mccarthy did say that the company has seen progress since it announced that sweeping

overhaul back in february. they, for example, recently started a new subscription plan where rather than paying full price up front for a bike or bike plus, you can now rent that equipment and you can pay a monthly fee. that includes both your equipment rental and access to the workout classes. we don't have good numbers on how that's performed so far, but mccarthy has said it's going well and certainly that ultimately will mean over time it's better margins for peloton. the company does report its results for the fiscal fourth quarter in about two weeks time, so i think we're expecting to get many more answers to your question of how things are going when they do announce. >> lauren thomas, thank you for the update appreciate it. let's go broader market, because our next guest says rebound trades and growth names will be leading the market higher, we still have our value investing talwart, charlie her

for an old school debate here, growth versus value. lori, what is your case? already we've seen it's been working. the nasdaq is up 23% from the lows why does it continue >> so, look, what we've seen since may 24th in the market, you've seen the growth trades start to outperform the value trade and you're starting to see the most popular names in hedge funds starting to outperform the broader market as well i think what happened around that point in time was to some extent the hedge funds selling and the degrossing getting exhausted. if you look at far back as 1q, hedge funds had gone back to 2016 levels of positioning when you look at defensive sectors more broadly, they were at peak valuations relative to both cyclicals and secular growth so i think we got to a moment in time where the defensiveness just simply got overdone that is something that we do typically see at market bottoms. defensives just get so overbought you can't stomach buying them anymore and people

don't need any more of them. so what is the next thing investors need to do wh they haven't had enough exposure to the growth stocks relative to where we think things are heading long term in terms of overall economic growth expectations i think you also got to this point in the reporting season. look, i do think numbers need to come down in dollar terms, but the rate of provisions to the upside, a lot of these big growth sectors and some important subgroups like internet retail, there were no upward revisions anymore so earnings sentiment looked pretty washed out that's something we also tending to see at market bottoms and that really spelled opportunity, i think, in some of these growth names. >> charlie, take the other side. i know you want to. >> absolutely. well, obviously since may, growth has outperformed but if we look at longer periods of time, value has crushed growth the russell 1000 value index is down only about 7% and the growth index is down over 17%. the value has outperformed

growth this year by about 1,000 basis points and then over longer periods of time, if you go back to 1926 when the university of chicago developed the center for research and security prices, value has beaten growth every ten-year period except for the last ten years when growth beat value. as i said earlier in the show, the reason, you have to look at what's the anomaly that caused that it's this crazy low interest rate environment we've had that discounted future growth from growth stocks, the future earnings that are way in the distance back at very low discount raets and that's been very helpful to growth stocks. but that's an anomaly that will revertto the mean. with a normal interest rate environment, value will do better. >> what's relevant is to define what you both are talking about. lori, what are growth stocks right now? are you talking about unprofitable stocks that are in the ark innovation etf are you talking about apple or

alba fphabet and meta? >> i think generally we like the large cap growth part of the market, the technology sector, consumer discretionary, the communication services sector. yes, some of that weight has been shifted into value. but at the end of the day what we typically see with those three sectors if you bucket them together, what we tend to see is they tend to outperform when economic growth is sluggish. we only see the value part of the market, financials, commodities and the industrials sector, they outperform when the economy is hot and so all the things we just heard how great the value stocks have been over the past year or so, year to date, that is really a function of a hot economy going above trending trending is 2.5% and that's fading into the background if you look out at where economic expectations are next year, they're hanging out at 1.5% my economist is a little more conservative but over the last few decades,

if you think the economy is hot, you want value if you thinkthe economy is going to be cool and that's frankly where i think it is heading, you do want to be in those longer term secular growers. >> i do feel, charlie, that is the biggest point growth investors have, we're heading into a slower economic period where usually you want growth in that time. >> and that's clearly the consensus. analysts and money managers were never as bearish as they have been the last couple of months the calls for a recession are everywhere i admit that's the consensus view, but that's exactly why value stocks have gotten so cheap. my portfolio is trading at right at 10 times earnings goldman sachs trading at 9 times earnings or apache at 4 times earnings so they are cheap because everyone agrees that we're going to have a recession. we may have a short one,but yo have to invest for the long term and it's a mistake to invest

trying to predict the recession. >> it was a good discussion, good debate. lori calvasina, thank you. have a good weekend. charlie, before we let you go, we're looking at another strong rally, just to recap the week we've had of 3.2% on the s&p 500. it's the fourth week in a row of gains. we're down still for the year only 10.25%. i say only because it was a lot more than that because we were in a bear market so what are we in now >> we're in a bifurcated market. the numbers you just quoted were for the s&p 500, which is dominated by growth stocks value stocks aren't down that much i think my funding is down 3% for the year huge bifurcation, different kinds of popular stocks. there's a lot of opportunity in value, which is holding up very well still great valuations in that part of the market still very expensive in the technology growth space.

>> what's your favorite name right now? >> if i had to pick one and it's always hard to make me pick among my children, i am going to say, madison square garden entertainment. >> you say that every time. >> well, i'm consistent. i'm a long-term investor they are going to open up the sphere in las vegas. they just signed u2 is the anchor tenant. it will be a spectacular place to watch a concert and people will go by the boatload. >> charlie, thank you very much. always consistent. we appreciate it never dull heading into the close we've got an s&p 500 rally, bifurcated market actually everything is up today. 1.7%, growth and value consumer discretionary is right on top, up 2.3%. best performing sector in the market right now technology right below it. everything is higher energy is the worst performing sector, up almost a full percent. we've rallied to even newer highs in the session it's been a steady climb into the close and we are at the

highs of the day, up 1.75% on the s&p 500. the nasdaq also is charging higher right now thanks to strength in big cap tech like apple, tesla, microsoft, nvidia and amazon but ark innovation etf up 4% on the day we're continuing to cheer these lower inflation numbers and overall a fourth week in a row of gains for stocks. that does it for me on "closing bell." have a good weekend. into "overtime" with mike santoli. welcome to "overtime." i'm mike santoli in for scott wapner you just heard the bells and we're just getting started we begin with the talk of the tape did this week mark a turning point for the bulls? stocks handing in another weekly gain with the s&p and nasdaq now on their longest win streaks on the year this comes after a double dose of encouraging inflation data and fresh signs of consumer sentiment rising to a two or three month high so did this week confirm that the bottom is