tv Fast Money CNBC November 29, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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yield curve has to have gotten his attention. the degree by which it is inverted, the biggest in 40 years. >> the 210 very big and the ones that he pointed to in the past, this 18-month curve has also gone slightly negative so he'll have to acknowledge that recession risk is in the market as a probability. >> we're going to see what he says and we're talk about it tomorrow "fast money" is now. >> right any on "fast," mike wilson said we have a ways to go before markets start their real comeback we'll find out how much more he said we have to drop and sour apple, shares of the tech giant down 5% this week latest headlines that sent shares lower and where the biggest company in the country is going from here. and it is time to dip in chips. one top analysts has a few names that he thinks are ripe for the picking. we'll find out what they are and a cyber break down, shares of crowd strike plunging to more than two year lows we'll bring you the trade.
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i'm melissa lee and this is "fast money" we're live at the nasdaq market site in times square we start off with a choppy session for stocks the s&p and nasdaq falling for a third day while the dow managed the slightest of gains at the ae end of the day and with one more trading day in november, the nasdaq has gone negative for the month the deciding factor could be jerome powell, delivering a key speech tomorrow on what is ahead for the market at the brookings institution. what are we expected him to say, guy? >> it is interesting i don't think, if the s&p was trading 3200 it would be a much different conversation but the market is only down as much as it is, the fact that the bond markets have stabilized aan the credit markets are in tact and energy prices have come down that is a back drop where he could be as hawkish as he wants.
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so i think he's going to be extremely hawkish. the market probably doesn't want to hear that but the market is giving him clearance to do exactly that. >> so here is a question not every question results in a game. >> good to know. >> if he's extremely hawkish, what did the ten year yield do. >> wein vert on the curve. and if you look at the dichotomy between the short end and the long end, it is clear as day so we're out in july where we expected fed to kind of peak at fed funds. and i would say, and i know you ask the questions but maybe the question i would ask is what does a weak payroll number do, because there is a payroll number on friday and look, people are pointing at this, powell meeting tomorrow and his speech is going to be the last real fed public statement before that deck meeting. but the data before the meeting is really important. the payroll number is really
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important. job market is within a couple of ticks of 50-year tightness and i look at the markets overall and where we have with the vix at 22 and the markets have fell into the 200. i i think the market will imply powell is bullish. think the market has already made up its minds. >> i think he has to look at that friday morn. >> you and your conspiracy theory he has a sneak peek. >> this is probably pretty important. when you think of the string of data into that deck meeting, we're going to have cpi and ppi and how explosive the market reaction and both stocks and in yields after that cpi number, i think he has to look at it and a lot of seasonal things, i think the likelihood that we see employment tick up is not great. so you're going to look at this number and say -- >> is that good news >> it is good news for the economy. it is good news for markets. for people with their jobs i do don't know if it is great
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for the markets. you know what i mean so to me i think he has to look at it and stays course i don't think he surprises tomorrow. >> grasso. >> he has to stay the course he has to stay extremely hawkish. that is what the market has been telling us th they've been selling off ahead of it. but the market does a rinse sand repeat they sell off and then it rallies afterward. we still have cpi. that could be a dovish number. but having said that, if you look at the -- you asked what the ten-year does. the ten-year yield probably comes in the two-year trades up higher and you have more inverted yield curve. but i'm still banking on that year end rally for people marking their books up >> yeah, santoli was having his last final word on the "overtime" just moments ago and said that powell probably will likely have to address this very steep inversion. do you think, yes? >> first question -- >> why would he deviate from
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what he said before and that is that there is a path towards a soft landing. >> because whoever is in that room at this press conference, that is allowed to ask questions, the first question i would ask is respectfully, chair powell, we're seeing a 210 inversion to the tune of 80 basis points we haven't seen since 1981 what do you think that is telling you, what does that tell the markets and see how he answers. then he has to answer the question no. >> if you say the market for pricing in a recession, what could you tell market participants about how they're pricing in a recession. >> i think he'll point out this is not going to be easy and i don't think he needs to comment on the markets until there is a story. agree, guy, someone will ask that question because there are smart folks in that room but the fed will point out where they need to be on medium to long-term inflation expectations and every voting member for last three weeks has said the same
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thing and in that we're not even close. and close may be meaning duration of how long they have to hold the line and 50 bips, by the way, in yesterday's fed, was a pretty big move. i realize relative that we've gone 75 for last few meetings. 50 is still a significant move and let's waitand see what we get after that. >> the boond market is pricing in stagflation and a very narrow recession in 2023. down on the year so to me there is a huge divergence across every major risk asset and the continued uncertainty and the high expectations for s&p for next year, i don't think, again, we're done we have not priced in all of what we don't know just yet. so to me i think it is the divergence between what the bond and the stom is saying down 15% of the year, no bueno. >> they're still on the notion there is going to be an actual
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pivot, that there will be cuts next year, steve grasso. and it seems that fed officials haven't really tried to talk that notion, talk the markets off of that ledge lately >> well, every time powell opens his mouth, he will talk extremely hawkish. so he does try to talk the market off of that but let's remember, though, this is a fed made recession. so eventually when he does pivot, this market should move higher pretty quickly. this is not a consumer recession. it's a fed recession the fed is doing this. so this is not -- this is no different to me than the pandemic recession where everything came to a screeching halt it is a lot slower this time but this is fed driven. >> okay. our next guest sees a lot of two way risk in the market mike, it is good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> two way risk sounds like
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markets up and markets down. what do you mean by that. >> well it is not getting any easier i think the first half of the year is fairly simple and if you were bearish and held that position we've had two tactical rallies since june, in june and again in october. and i do think we're closer to the end. we don't know when the fed will pause. we think it is january and they do 50 in december and 25 there january and that is it and the market is trying to pretrade that like it was this summer we thought it was premature this summer and this time we think there is validity to that. but what do you going to pay if you think earnings are disappointing next year. so we're trying to have our cake and eat it too we're having a tactical rally now, agree with steve, we have upward buys into year end but the bear market is not over and we have significantly lower lows if the forecast is correct. >> so 2023 your price target is out and 3600 is the bear and
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3900 is the base and 4200 is the back drop. >> it is between 275 to maybe 4 and a quarter if there is a acceleration in the back half of the year to me, it is not about the year end target, it is about the path nobody cares about what is going to happen in 12 months they need to deal with the next three to six months. and that is where we think there is significant down side so while 3900 sounds like a really boring, but no this is a wild ride. it is a lot to do. i say the best thing i could say is it is getting better, the average stock is doing better than the index and there is stom opportunities going forward asso poed to trading index. >> i think on friday you came out with a 50% rally that is exactly what happened. so you nailed that but 3600 is a bear case does not seem catastrophic to me given the back drop that we've talked
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about for a while. so i guess what are your earnings number and what multiple put on the back of that. >> 3600 is year end, 2023. so our bear case path is 3,000 so and look, the range we give people is you should expect an s&p between 303,000 and 3300 a year. and that when it will reach -- >> i'm sorry to interrupt. 3,000 to 3300 in the year. >> for each case >> that is a big drop. >> correct and that will be driven really by the earnings revisions to the down side which is the second half of our thesis for this year which is the ice part of the fire and ice. >> you mentioned that average stock is doing better than the index and we saw the five largest stocks all guide down for the current quarter. and so they've acted poorly. microsoft, google, alphabet and tesla. and do you think the market
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rally has broadened out like in the summer, but this is not a one quarter phenomenon you're expecting revisions down side revisions and in estimates to speed up here does that cause a flush in a way, if the major names lead to the downside, and then we have some of the other breath and it comes out, we could get to your 3300 in the new year. >> that is right we think most of the damage will have in bigger companies it could be consumer or industrial, not just tech. when those stocks have a tough time in october, the money went into other areas so. so part of the rally is by repositioning the money moving that doesn't mean it is safe so i want to be perfectly clear. we're still bearish on the next six months and it is our job to call the tactical rallies and we got this one right we don't always do that. i still think this rally has legged into year end notwithstanding the noise in the next two weeks because the liquidity at year end and people chasing and we have to deal with that so it is not a time to sell
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everything and run for the hills because that is not until the earnings come down in january and february. >> but you do seem like you're saying by march or april or may of next year, the bottom is in and what tells you bopt om is in is it the revision story or what the fed signaled. >> there is two things first is are we going to get the revisions, are you going to get price to give you say fat pitch. because that hasn't happened this year. even though in june and october the prices got low, the it never came in. it was all about rate. now the need the equity to blow out to tell you there ises a recession risk but to get bullish, you didn't have to take a view, are we in the 70s stagflation type scenario which you wouldn't get bullish and or in the boom, bust, where there is a bust next year in earnings but then 24, there is a reacceleration in earnings and that is our core view. so the market will figure that out.
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we think, sometime in the spring, maybe early summer and it will be the second half. >> thank you for coming by good to see you. grasso your with mike wilson in terms of the year end rally but how about next year. >> i'm on the same page with him. i think you get the tactical rally at year end and i do believe the market will bottom after the first quarter because the fed most likely, history has shown after they start on a rate-rising period, they start to cut and that coincides with probably midyear. so, first quarter, bottom market rallies from there >> i mean, mike's call is much more tactical than what we typically get from equity strategists for year. >> it is the greatest trading market of all time, as we said and good for him because he's caused a lot of the turns and a lot them have been based on extreme sentiment and moves but the thing that is
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different here is that the equity downgrades and revisions will truly give the market a chance to estimate where the companies have gone bad. >> and we haven't seen -- we've just seen the beginning. we're not going to see the worst of it until next year. >> i think in the post war period, the average bear market lasts about a year it goes down about 30, 35% or something like that. so the way mike is saying, once we get to the meat of the down side revisions, 2023 estimates come down and the companies guide down, sentiment is down right horrible, it feels kind of scary, when you're going to have the ten-year yield likely going down at the same time the stock market is making new lows it is probably in the 3400 range round tripping to the pre-pandemic highs in the s&p 500 where it is probably close to a bottom because i don't think any of us are sitting on the table and think we're on a 2008 or a 2001 sort of moment here. we just don't have the leverage in the system. we don't have the sort of risk unless there is something
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totally whacky. >> but the cycles move faster and we're talking about stagflation. i think the velocity of markets is so different today but the proliferation of information and the efficiency of markets and this is moving faster even though this is an inflation bear market tears to spend out. >> shares jumps as a bio tech company is exploring a sale. personalia comes has all of the details. >> what they call highly preliminary discussions with three big pharma players,am gen and -- about a potential take over under irish takeover rules, the companies have to disclose whether they want to pursue a deal by january 10, 5:00 p.m. new york time. so that sets the clock running there could be a deal before or there could be nothing
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the company said at there point there can't guarantee there will be a deal but this is the company that makes the drug tepeza a number of the rare disease or chronic disease treatments that they are involved in the stock there. you could see up better than 30%. and it already had a pretty good november melissa this puts its market cap if it were to open in this range somewhere in the range of more than $22 billion >> yep, bertha, thank you. so, we haven't talked about this in a little bit. but the notion that biotech companies are flush with cash and they make a huge acquisition and then they hang themselves, figuratively, with the acquisition. if amgen is interesting, is that what is happening. >> it is a 25 -- it is a significant deal listen, again, i can't speak to the integration or what the overlaps are and i'll say this, the knee-jerk in amgen could be
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to sell it off to the tune of 15% and that is an opportunity but i don't love amgen pursuing this maybe for others it makes sense. i thinkam gen has the pipeline to do it on their own. >> flot much of a reaction in amgen shares. >> but they have had a major reaction over the last couple of months the stock is up almost 30% and year-over-year up over 40. so the move in the biotech sector, these are company that's are very defensive in this environment until they make a bad acquisition. not implying this has to be. i'll let people in the pharma space opine. but think about zbil gilead, that knocked the stock down for years and that is frustrating part of the ibb. >> a rough tracks of crippling rail strike threatening to impact all parts of the economy. what congress is doing ahead. and a top analyst with major reproduction out of china.
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2% as iphone production worries mount in china top apple watcher tweeting that his firm expected q4 deliveries of the pro and pro max to come in between 15 and 20 million units lower than expected. the decline come as labor protests escalate. and the protests at the plant aren't just about covid lockdowns, they're also about wage disputes. so it doesn't follow the covid lockdowns get eased and everything is fine and good in the plant. >> it seems like apple has nothing but headwinds whether it is musk or whether it is production issues. but once again, this is not something that the consumer is saying we don't want the phones. consumers saying we want too many of the phones and apple can't produce them so you might have a hiccup like in the stock right now but ultimately as it always seems to happen with apple, it is always a buying opportunity unfortunately, the stability or the floor on the stock is a
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little bit lower than where we are right now. tune of probably another $8 to $10. so no one is rushing out to buy apple and nor do i think they should but it is a buying opportunity for a great name. >> do you think that musk -- i'm asking maybe the wrong person. do you think that musk is really a problem for apple in terms of him questioning the practices of app store. >> no, i think apple is a huge problem for him. with twitter again, listen, this is going to be any new year's resolution, i'm going to stop with musk. because i think the twitter stuff is not important and it is denigrating what any good things that have happened over there at tesla. going back to apple for a second i don't think it is a big deal for apple one way or another if that terrwitter app is not in the ios store. if you look at the current quarter, consensus was down 4% year-over-year in eps. last year they did 25% and the year before that 35% so when you think about expectations are getting low
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i just don't think there is a floor in this stock. i think there is some technical support down another 10 or $15 billion. did you this is still massive outperforms all of the major tech peers from let's say if you want to go back two years to when we got the vaccine as announced in november of 2020. >> but it is underperformed the market since that spike on earnings and maybe you could say well was it unnatural buts it down 10% in the s&p and never got above the 200, it is still below the 50 and i don't think that the elon news is significant, but you can't tell me that there aren't a lot of people in a lot of place and i love apple as a company, i don't love the stock right now. it is the opposite of what guy said about facebook or meta. but you can't tell me apple hasn't been pushing around the world for a long time and i think we're going to look back at this period an the anti-trust, but the issues are what we're heard from many different corners of world geographically, a money company
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as and the app store this is a company that dominates and i think apple pushes the world around and i think it is one of the reasons why the company has been so successful. >> apple made an all-time high in late december and early january. it is almost a year and here we are now. i think the 130 level in june is in the cross-hairs and may i ask one thing of the panels, if steve hears me. >> i'm sorry, melissa. it is still november the pen ultimate day of november could we wait until the new year's resolution until the last week of december >> you shouldn't wait until new year's you could make a resolution at any time today you could make a change in your life. it hasn't to do with the calendar. >> this is deep. >> this is a special "fast money." >> one point about that resolution what is clear is that elon musk is coming unwound before ourv very eyes. you don't have to be a pundit on tv to point it out
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about tim cook and apple pushing the world around, let me tell you something, is there is hundreds of thousands of chinese people living under authoritarian regime who are also working in those foxconn factories and they were jumping out of buildings and they're riding at some point that is the reckoning. and why does tim cook, why does he get to walk this very fine line with president xi and the chinese communist party and make the phones. >> and you're hitting on something. apple reliance on china right now on demand and supply is something that i don't think we've ever seen. and i would be worried do you want to hitch yourself to that wagon right now this whole covid madness is something that will end and the fact that we trade those headlines every day. they have to reopen. >> i know esg is falling out of favor. but if you're an investor you
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have to wonder about apple it is commitment if it is standing by production at these factories. >> we've brought that point out many times it is not manifested at all in the stock or the investment comm community but when you're so relieutenant on something that could turn so quickly, . >> that is your tail rick for apple. that makes it 115, $120 stock. >> and that delay phone might be a phone that is not purchased. if feels different than a ford i know it is crazy but i feel like the way the consumer is -- except for dan. >> this is an iphone 12. i downgraded from a 14 they're the most irritative phones and karen was saying last night, delayed or denied, i think they're going to be denied. >> in a bad economy it might be denied a last more "fast money" to come here is what is coming up next. >> reporter: a railroad strike looming ahead. the latest details out of
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washington and the ripple effects they could have on the economy and the market plus, a semi come back could chips flip after a rough year for the tech space. the names with the most potential heading into the new year and the ones to avoid. you're watching "fast money. live from the nasdaq market site in times square. we're back right after this. i was born here, i'm from here, and i'm never leaving here. i'm a new york hotel. yeah, i'm tall. 563 feet and 2 inches.
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tomorrow morning and according to nancy pelosi and chuck schumer said the senate would pass it quickly after that forcing four unions to accept the terms of a tentative white house broker deal that they had already rejected president biden today said he called on congress to force the deal because the threat of a strike is putting the economy at risk specifically the white house suggested a strike could up end $2 billion of daily trade and put 265,000 jobs on the line chip makers have begun diverting rail shipments to trucks but not all lawmakers are on board with this plan. marku rubio and ted cruz said they would not vote to reject the demands of workers and bernie sanders said he would be a no and that he would be trying to improve the deal with more paid sick leave that is the major sticking point. the deal reached in september provides one day of paid leave unions had sought 15 that is why groups representing half of rail workers say quality
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of life issues still need to be addressed. now several unions have been able to negotiate side deals with new bee spoke elements sought by members. but getting all 12 groups on board by december 9th is proving to be a tall order melissa. >> ti thought the president was going to do something and he might have emergency powers. >> it depends on which part of the process you're talking about. because the president had appointed a presidential emergency board in the summer. they're the group that essentially put together this third party deal that proved to be the starting point for this late night negotiations in september where president biden made the final phone call that essentially pushed the group's toward that tentative deal the problem is rank and file workers doan like it and now it is up to congress or the rarlway labor act, to force the parties to accept the deal and draw talks out even further or
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appoint their own independent arbitrator they're going with option one but we'll see how that pans out. >> kay lar, thank you. guy, transports here. >> if this were to, i don't think it will happen, it will be inverted somehow, cooler heads will prevail but the market goes down 3.5%, 4% that day. transports here, the rails have traded okay. if you look at them. i think to me csx is most interesting in the group but you look at fedex and ups, that is a tale of two cities without question ups is the better company i think in this environment still is. >> ups i think is a lot less exposure to a rail strike than many and i actually think the stock rallied a little bit on some of that just relative value i look at csx and you can't invest in the rails until we get a better handle on where they are with the peak yields are coal i don't think they're going to hold. i think if you look at the chart, you have better labor costs but i don't think the demand side is a great place to
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be right now. >> coming up, a stock pickers mark for semis that interview in moments. and we're all over the action in crowd strike and meta. shares both dropping hard after the names reported results we'll bring you the details. and before we head to break. look at capitol hill christmas tree it was lit just moments ago. there it is. behold stick around for asmoy"n o."ft ne itw
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welcome back to "fast money. credit suisse holding the tech conference this week micron and north dakota and nxp among the big chip names presenting and options traders are betting that one of the names will fail to make a good impression mike, what did you see. >> we were taking a look at micron technology which was the third busiest semiconductor name among the single stocks and we did see bearish bets the largest was a big purchase of january puts. we saw a buyer pay $1.85 for 2008 of the january 50 puts. buyers of those are betting that micron could trade lower >> all right mike, thanks for that. for more on the chip trade, let's bling in stacy raskin from
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bernstein. are we expected companies to re-set expectations tomorrow. >> some of them were there today and i don't think we saw too much for setting expectations. most of them sounded pretty consistent and especially the ones that are exposed more to the analog space i think the industrial and the auto, most of them at this point still sound pretty good. i would say that is where the broader controversy is investors are expecting next year to be a down turn we've seen some markets already roll a consumer focus, pc's, smartphones and graphic cards, already rolled other markets like industrial and auto are more broadly holding up and until people are wondering first in and first out is the one that happened and taken the hit or are they next and do we see that doing into next year. >> is that what your expecting, there will be a broader re-set of the sector to come. >> we've seen some of it >> right. >> so probably right.
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i've been nervous on some of the other more diversified end markets and industrial and auto for a while. demand is still very strong, supply has been tight. lead times, the time it takes customers to get their cars have been stretched out of because of the supply shortages i'm been worried about stockpiling and there is a phenomenon when c customers can't get what they want they tend to order more. it is the toilet paper situation from 2020. and i do think if you look at the trajectory of the end markets that they go into, i do think there is a discrepancy in? of the markets, like some of the ones that have been holding up strongly like auto and industrials. i do worry -- now when we made that call a year ago and i thought we had a quarter or two. it has been four or five quarters and i would say probably from a fundamental standpoint, numbers have held up from a stock standpoint, it
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seems like investors have been getting more and more worried, the better the numbers, the more worried they are there is something bad on the other side. >> so you just mentioned industrial and auto a couple of times there. if you look at a texas instruments, expected to have double-digit earnings and the stock is only down about 6% but it trades at a big premium to many of the peers and look at next year and expected to be down in earnings, high single-digits about 10% but trades at about 22 times hour do you square that outperformance this year and low expectations next year and fat valu valuation. >> this is how semiconductor trade. the numbers go up as multiples go down. and i think ifrs want to see numbers come down. they want to know that estimates have bottomed so they could feel more comfortable buying the stock. an -- it cut and if you go to the other end
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markets. everybody say auto is resilient but ti is seeing issues in industrial they've guided down. they guided next quarter down 12%, 13%, sequentially, which is low from what you would see in the quarter. because of the numbers going forward has been re-set when it makes investors more comfortable buying than you would tend to put a higher multiple on a move troughy kind of earnings ti does tend to get a preum. it is a well respected company they have a great long-term investor base who tend to hold the stock through thick and thin so it is supported regardless. >> stace y, thanks so much for joining us >> any time. >> what stacy likes, amd and nvidia and qualcomm. do you like those, guy. >> nvidia has rallied now 65% since the october low. 65%. that is not insignificant. and it is still 50% lower than where it was a year from now
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that is math i took that in school. i think you sell nvidia, i think it is a rally you have to fade so i love the company but i don't like the stock here. >> steve >> yeah all of the semiconductors are in declining trend line going back to the late 2021. with the exception of qualify com, that underperformed and broke out of the declining trend line but to dan's point, texas instruments looks like the best stock in the space right now currently, that is still another declining trend line this is something where stacy is right. you went from a drought of chips to a flood of chips and there was a lot of overordering and we have not got through that supply and there is going to be a recession. agree with guy i think you have to sell these -- their peaks and valleys and you have to sell the peaks in the semiconductor. >> the world cup may be in full swing but we can't get off the baseball diamond some key movers. how should we play the names we're breaking it down ahead
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plark your calendars for the next big interview from pro week we're talking to leon cooperman. scan the qr code on your screen to register. crowd strike share sinking on disappointing revenue guidance for the quarter. the stock is down 18% and net app is down 11 is% on a weak sales out look kristina has the details >> two major reasons for the crowd strike weakness is next quarter's weaker revenue guidance and weaker than expected annual recurring revenue. that is the bread and butter from so many of the cloud names. ceo becaming elongating sale cycles with larger and smaller customers pursuing multi phase prescription tart days, a ka, they're derailing their start. but promising on the earnings call, the vast majority of these
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deals are not lost, just delayed. sticking with cloud, net app shares also tumbling down 11% after a mixed quarter and weak guidance for fiscal q3 and its full year. and something i heard on the airwaves, jim cramer saying enterprise tech spending weakness could be the eye of the storm. especially since many of the software as a service have never experienced a recession and we're seeing it at crowd strike. it was formed in 2011, not too long ago. >> kristina, thank you if the economy continues to weaken, there are continued layoffs do you need to spend as much on enterprise software, tim. >> the sense was that you had to and we live in a world where they can't cut here. they could cut in other places and i believe that if you look at growth you're getting, you're at 50% bookings growth year-over-year and i still think that warrants a higher multiple. and in this environment, we know what a higher multiple stocks do it is way a very conservative
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guide. >> crowd strike is probably ten times revenue this is expensive but the second guidance you could wrap your head around. the problem is the second quarter guidance and people are selling first and asking questions later. it will find a home. i'm trying to figure out what the right level is i'm going back to 2019 high. and that is about $98 or so. that should be support and given this quarter and the way people sell first and ask questions later, that might be the level. >> dan >> yeah. we've seen this before this smacks of 2001. and this is really, it is just starting to hear the companies guide down that is the most important part. here is the stock down 65% from the all-time highs in 2020 and guy said the stock is trading about 10 times sales trading at 60 times sales. it had nearly $100 billion market cap and again, that issin san sanity and this stock is going to o overshoot to the down side and
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probably similar to the pre-pandemic levels which is a good hat size. what are you 7 3/8s. >> i have a big head. >> double-digits. >> there is nothing wrong with that that is probably a complement. >> for people that might not understand high single-digits >> maybe 8.25 if it is guy. >> if you're playing the home game coy do the whole thing. >> has it been that whole size. >> shrinkage over time with age. >> i don't know. i think your ears grow constantly. >> and your nose. >> pardon me >> let's measure today and then measure in a year. >> next year. >> if we're still here. >> coming up, everyone is talking about soccer but we're talking about head sizes who cares if it is off-season. daans sectors see big move toy d how to play them don't go anywhere. "fast money" is back in two.
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commercial business should offset defense risks tim, recently you've called there best looking chart in the dow. >> in the dow. i think it is. and think the fundmentals support the chart. part of their argument, this is the return of free cash flow at boeing after they've said $21 billion. i've seen numbers that are greater than that over last three years. this was doing $25 to $30 a share in the heyday. i think we're getting back there. but that's ad duopoly. >> casinos hitting the racket today. and after the mcyow government renewed licenses for another ten years. >> jp morgan upgraded yesterday, $91 price target still too cheap from nev early november. i think people come to the realization of what is going on with china lockdown, zero covid, these casino stocks are still cheap so i still think it goes
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higher than here. >> china stocks have rallied. >> my view on em is that it will continue to go higher and on th casino, they lost a lot of china renewals if you look at wynn and sands. they're only just breaking out and still down two-thirds from where they were. >> grasso, your thoughts on china? >> i mean this is just the head wind de jure but i would say we have to be closer to the bottom than we -- that most people want to admit and, yes, they indicate with a flick of the switch they could see zero covid policy off the table and everything moves higher and that is china related. but i would say that the casinos, are showing us in the last month, that they've moved higher aggressively. las vegas sands looks like the winner i would stay there.
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and home builders finishing higher today gaining more than a half percent in today's session wild the group has been hammered this year and staging a comeback. it is a little bit of a relief for the home buyer steve,a lettered us to this that you are watching. >> it is hard to fathom that you want to be buying houses right now or housing stocks. in the face of a recession and the face of rising rates and even the sentiment around the builders themselves is pretty negative. and 60% of them are saying that they have to offer incentives to buy down the rate of the mortgage for the potential buyers to make it look attractive transactions are going lower stocks are going lower mortgage rates are moving higher but a lot of the stocks seem to be counter intuitively making a round bottom i don't think we've seen the bottom yet but it appears that you could buy them for a short-term rally.
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>> well they always look ahead right. there is still a supply issue in housing regardless of what mortgage rates are doing tim? >> i think the affordable, it is the triple play, verlanders or mets or -- >> he's flo not going to play for the mets i'm going to say it. playing for the mets, tim is not the same as playing in new york city. >> let's take this outside we have a few minutes and i'll see you in times square. >> i was asking you about home builders, timothy. >> i think home builders are trapped. i think if you look at phn, it is ground to a halt and stays there. >> comes down to interest rates. ten year yields have gone from 4.3 and dan is right it is as simplistic if you think rates are going lower and the home goes higher >> i thought you would be off
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topic on something else. >> you asked me specifically question you want to get into verlander debate he's not pitching for -- he's not playing for the mets >> how about usa soccer. >> how about it. >> up next, final trades (snorting) if you struggle with cpap... (groan) (growling) (chuckle) ...you should check out inspire. no mask. no hose. just sleep. (beeping) learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. ♪♪ for skin as alive as you are... don't settle for silver. harness the power of 7 moisturizers & 3 vitamins to smooth, heal, and moisturize your dry skin. gold bond. champion your skin.
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time for the final trade let's go around the horn steve grasso >> general mills, it is been an outperformer this year up 23% year-to-date and inside of general mills, the pet segment has been outperformer to an unbelievable level. general mills. >> and tim seymour. >> you have a majorin verting and i think the dollar has peaked it doesn't mean it will go lower. em double bought am at 34 i think you stay long the straight. >> dan. >> -- has had a good rally and i think you sell the s&h. >> what do you think the stros signing abreu. he was the mvp. >> he's 35. >> win resorts >> what are the other components.
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>> braish and neo and disney no bruno. >> we're get new picks for next year all right. thanks for watching "fast money. it is a tough year "mad money" with jim cramer starts right about now starts right about now my mission is simple, to make you money i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica other people want to make friends, i'm trying to save you money. my job isn't just to entertain but educate or explain this stuff so call me or tweet me
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