the pre-market. new this morning, the world's biggest chip maker announcing a multibillion dollar manufacturing in america we like that details straight ahead. meanwhile, we are live in washington like a penthouse for a gathering for america's leading ceos how fitting. the business round table talks about the challenges facing american business. we're on the wharf >> no, we're not i guess we are >> it is tuesday, december 6th, 2022 "squawk box" begins right now. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. we are live from washington, d.c. i'm rebecca quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin.

we are at the business round table's 50th and vniversary gathering. where they agree to assemble for the discussion on the record high inflation and political division we will have the ceo of land o'lakes and the head of the business round table and ceos of bechtel group and united airlines and gm as well as walmart and raytheon we will see what they think washington needs to do we will get to the questions coming up today. >> all-star panel. >> and what washington has already donen terms of the infrastructure we will talk about chips, obviously. >> semiconductors. >> those chips

we will talk food as well. >> a lot of fed. atlanta fed. >> she is interesting. they call it farm to fork. what about spoons and knives why farm to fork >> the ill iteration. >> we are so efficient we have 6 billion people in the world? you have to be careful about food shortages and the slightest thing can happen >> any problems with the supply chain. any trouble with trying to get things railroad strike we narrowly averted. >> we have union pacific >> we will talk headlines sdpheadlines. >> have you had your coffee? >> the shortage of butter. >> there is a silver lining in

there. >> there is. >> cream cheese. we will look at the markets. u.s. equities are relatively flight the dow futures are off 5. s&p down this comes after the dow plunged 500 points yesterday a drop of 1.4% nasdaq was off 1.9%. among the biggest decliners were regional banks pnc, citizens and regions down 5% yesterday treasury yields picked up. the 10-year treasury around 3.596% the 2-year treasury at 4.36. >> someone calls the guy at the journal as says say this someone said okay.

a hot number on friday we are getting ahead of ourselves. we may be above 5% he writes it and we jump around and the market goes down. >> that moved things >> i'll give more credit than that i assume he makes lots of phone calls. >> i'm saying someone said that. >> somebody needed to reflect the fact that after powell's comments, that number on friday was hotter we got two numbers that were hotter than anticipated. that doesn't mean they will go 75, but double and terminal rate is higher. that is what larry summers has been saying all along. >> the 10-year treasury? >> 3.56. >> that's what i'm watching. i may not read that article. >> you and alan greenspan. >> yes more and more similar to alan. meantime, you were

mentioning chips are a big conversation in the next three hours. taiwan semiconductor, the largest computer maker of chips saying it is tripling investment in the united states promising to spend $40 billion on two manufacturing hubs located in phoenix, arizona. the white house saying the plant should satisfy demand for chips across the country that will happen by 2026 today, tim cook will accompany president biden at the phoenix site ceos of nvidia and apple will be there to discuss tim cook was in washington at the state dinner with president macron we are watching the guest list. >> has had a lot of conversations with elon musk emmanuel macron. >> elon flew to d.c. between a

stop in florida for the art basel. >> of course >> you track the niflights now. >> we know people that were there. comcast people got the nod. mccarthy was there brought his mother he said i would like to have a nice time. i think john thune it was bipartisan. >> state dinners usually are >> they weren't in recent years as bipartisan. you said chips those chips. >> is there another chip >> pepsi. >> i guess i should think pepsi as a chipmaker >> other than pepsi, what chips? pepsi makes all the chips. all the "toes. fritos, cheetos and doritos. i'm leaving something out.

pe pepsico laying off workers at the north america division the beverage and snacks. the cuts will be heavier in the beverage business because the snacks unit trimmed positions with the voluntary retirement program. in october, pepsi reported a jump of in sales and profits >> big profits now they can't -- >> certain things are inelastic. they were cutting costs to offset margins and weather worsening economic conditions. beijing furthering the covid poll sic policies authorities no longer requiring

residents to show proof of a negative test to go into public spaces this is one day after the similar move in shanghai >> slowly moving i do all this without a computer >> we all are trying >> ad lib it >> i do need that to know what we're going to do. this is easy i can turn it over to dom chu who is at cnbc headquarters. how are you, dom >> joe, who needs a computer with a mind like yours andrew and becky's >> it's like a computer. >> 64 bit? >> have you seen what siri thinks you are saying when you have it on dictate >> the new chat ai bot

it is mind blowing for the week now with ai. if you think your brain is at 286 or 486 this is quantum computing. nothing you have ever seen >> it has been out for a week? >> have you had the ai do the pictures of the rendering? i haven't done it yet. >> have you seen it write scripts for "seinfeld" that are perfect? >> have you seen programmers at twitter trying to approve. >> beyond. dom, we digress. >> i'm sorry i opened up the topic. i will get to the morning movers shares of gitlab surging ahead of the opening bell. posting a per share loss than expected sales topping estimate gitlab with a strong outlook for the current quarter and full year shares up 19% in the pre-market.

textron announcing a contract with the army's long-range assault aircraft the contract set to replace 2,000 blackhawk helicopters and apache helicopters by 2030 shares up 8% and jack dorsey's block is tripping to a funding round to the africa based bitcoin miner with 100% renewable sources. it is a $2 million seed investment in the company gridless it is hoping to spur more infrastructure block is up .10% joe, back to you >> okay. dom, thank you >> yup we're going to a three shot?

interesting. people are noticing. >> we are coming back. a lot going on here on "squawk box" from washington, d.c. >> you're on the left in blue. perfect. i'm on the right in red. >> i'm in white. >> land o'lakes ceo will join us coming up. we have an interview with robinhood ceo. you want to hear the conversation he has a prot product announcem coming up at 8:30. a stake had been bought in his company by sam bankman-fried we will talk about all of it when we come back. you are watching "squawk box" here on cnbc

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saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. welcome back brian sullivan is live in rotterdam as part the series on europe's energy crisis brian, what can you tell us? the tease yesterday was we are talking about natural gas today. >> reporter: that's what we will talk about here. we will talk about lng and the u.s. role in and again, i don't think the word saving europe is too strong, becky. without u.s. imported natural gas, europe would be in a far more dire situation. we are literally on the water here in the port of rotterdam. that is an lng ship right behind us here. that is not a fake back drop

that is real that is not from the united states i looked up the name on marine traffic. that ship came from norway that is an example of the lng ship it turns out, becky, we have one by the good graces of timing another lng ship coming around the bend here. this one is from sweden. we have a few from texas why are we showing you this? here is the reality. the lng business in the united states, becky, pretty much didn't exist ten years ago liquified natural gas. now you have all of the players. berkshire hathaway warren buffett, becky, he owns an lng facility in maryland. i looked it up a ship is due to come here in a day or two it is in the atlantic ocean right now. you have cheniere and you have venture global and freeport lng.

those two are private. you have smaller players in the industry like new fortress and chart industries as well all day, we will talk about europe's gas crisis. that side of the story try to come at it from the u.s. angle how the industry that did not exist in large part one decade ago is now literally helping to keep the lights and heat on in europe. later on today, we'll talk about the analysts favorite stocks in the group using price targets. a little math, a little gas and definitely some boating here in rotterdam. >> a beautiful shot. let's add, we're in washington, d.c. this morning. let's add the washington component. there have been discussions in areas about the potentially limiting or banning exports of natural gas as prices have increased. what would that do to the allies in europe when we are dealing with the war in ukraine?

>> it would doom them. i mean, do the math. one of the ships behind us that we showed here the lng tanker one of those ships will heat and power about 300,000 american homes or european homes for a month. it is 1 million people take the household number. the numbers here are big, becky. i don't want people to call me out on the math. it takes 10 to 12 ships here to make one billion cubic meters. if you want to power and heat 3 million homes for six months, you need 60 of those lng ships europe needs our gas by the way, i heard your lineup today from d.c it is amazing. you have bechtel on. that is, i think, the biggest builder of lng facilities. ask them they will have an order book out if ten years

the lng industry in america should be proud. men and women in texas and oklahoma and louisiana are sending gas here to netherlands which is going all throughout europe really midland and odessa, thank you. our friends here in the netherlands, rick, rudy, wesley? they thank the american natural gas industry for keeping their lights on. >> brian, thank you. we will watch through the day. we will see you very soon. brian sullivan we will speak with the bechtel ceo in a bit. >> i'm excited about that. they are building a chip plant in ohio. what is the construction company need to know about the chips versus intel itself in terms of the engineering? this company does that chips and lng? >> yup >> specialized construction. >> thank god for engineers the people you didn't see when

you were out every night having fun. >> he was working hard, too. >> am i transferring while i was out, the engineers were always working. the ceo of land o'lakes will join us live from the penthouse gathering. it is cool the executives in washington we're on the 12th floor. >> i don't know. >> part of the big lineup. the ceo of bechtel and then mary barra all before 8:00 a.m. we will stay after 8:00. "squawk box" will be right back. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairddifference.com.

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well come back to "squawk box. we are live in washington, d.c the next guest is on the frontlines of food inflation and immigration. land o'lakes ceo beth ford 9,000 employees working in over 50 states and over 50 countries. a lot of touch points. >> that's it >> help us understand what is happening here in the real economy and this inflation piece that we're all trying to understan understand. >> you know inflation pressure is hitting the farmers as well farmers are seeing the increase as well. dairy or cattle producers. i look at break even what is the break even cost for a grower for corn. that is increased to 5.75. we look at commodity prices and

say that is high, understand that margin for a farmer we should want farmers to be profitable these are families and communities dealing with cost pressure they have cost pressures that include to your point labor, availability, lack of technology, issues that the infrastructure bill will address. we need immigration reform to address it >> i want to talk about the immigration piece. it seems the costs have been able to be passed on we talked about pepsico. they have been able to pass on costs to customers and it appears that inflection point may happen for them with layoffs. >> only 14 cents on the dollar goes to the farmer in terms of the food value chain 14 cents on the dollar that is declining. there is increasing pressure because operating loans are

increasing and that's an added cost no relief on the immigration side or labor side yes, they have been passing it through. this year, growers will have a decent year. understand they buy materials and buy inputs for the next crop year are in the fall so, they are trying to position themselves for what is the other side of this they now hit the cost pressure that we've seen. they may have a decent year now. they may look at potential declining profitability in the next year. >> we will talk to doug mcmillan from walmart that is a big retailer pushing back on suppliers saying we cannot pass costs on to our consumers. you need to figure out ways to do it. is it doug's fault or somebody in the middle? >> i don't know it is a fault. i wouldn't characterize it as that i'll show you what i see land o'lakes goes from the farm.

we are owned by farmers by local retailers to the stores. through that, that includes a lot of cost elements that everybody is dealing with. especiallies labor insurance creasing material and energy and trucking costs. all of those are part of it. everybody is trying to make sure that is represented and passing that on. margins are not just squeezed, but lost positions. >> the quantk quandary of jay p. to slowdown the entire economy is something we have poto live with it is all related to inflation which is a problem for farmers it is a terrible circular problem. >> it is i think farmers are used to volatility i think you have to be an optimist to be a farmer. too hot, too cold.

trade one day out of seven is tied to export markets strength of the u.s. dollar can impact trade you have so many elements impacting the farmer >> is there anything that is good >> if you see the joy i see on the farm >> so gratifying to see a plant come up and feed a nation or world. only one-third is butter >> we own purina and wind fuel technology which works with growers. we have the sustainable production business working on transition for farmers >> we will run out of time one of the things you talk about a lot when you are in d.c. is the issue of immigration and what the farmers are seeking that has been a controversial third rail issue near the town >> what? the thing is i talk with both

sides of the aisle we are about policy. the business round table is policy, not politics we need labor. we need immigration reform it is not as though the farmer hasn't tried to increase wages for laborers we cannot attract laborers in farming. we are about 2.5 million workers short. >> 2.5 million >> 6 million acres did not get planted because of lack of labor. probably 20% of hand picked produce in the central valley of california did not get picked because of lack of labor it is a challenging, challenging issue. yes, immigration reform can be difficult. we all want border security. i can tell you both sides of the aisle understand the importance of immigration reform especially relating to farm workers during the lame duck, there is an opportunity for us to pass a bill in the senate that is a

partner bill to what passed in the house already and bipartisan i think it is urgent given the global food situation. the challenges you already see from ukraine and elsewhere >> beth ford from land o'lakes thank you. >> is there a butter shortage? >> i don't want to get down into the cost elements. there it is. >> you agree butter is good on anything >> butter is good on everything. >> you want a shortage >> silver lining i can use less. >> butter is healthy it's baking season. >> thank you i appreciate you being here. when we come back, business round table ceo josh bolten is joining us on the biggest challenges facing companies ri right now. we will have interviews with jamie dimon and greg hayes and

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good morning welcome back to "squawk box" here live this morning in washington, d.c. take a look at the futures right now. let's show you where things stand as the market sets up three hours to go before the market opens dow opens off and nasdaq opening up 20 points

we have another executive departure. this one from salesforce days after bret taylor resigns, now stewart butterfield will leave in january he founded slack which was acquired by salesforce slack's chief officer will leave the company. sales fell 7% after the departure was announced. it is now down 47% year to date. by the way, this one had been planned a long time. the way these acquisitions happen, you buy and stick around stewart butterfield was not planning bret taylor worked on the transaction. when we come back, we have from the business round table. josh bolten will join us on the

challenges facing american companies. we will get insight of what they are thinking and the economic results from the survey they have taken. and later, doug mcmillon will join us in a cnbc exclusive interview. "squawk box" will be right back. as an independent financial advisor, i stand by these promises: i promise to be a careful steward of the things that matter to you most. i promise to bring you advice that fits your values. i promise our relationship will be one of trust and transparency. as a fiduciary, i promise to put your interests first, always.

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that's where leading executives from across america have gathered for a business round table to tackle the pressing problems facing the c-suite. joining us is josh bolten. ceo and forum president. josh, it has been a while since everybody has been back. you have a hefty agenda of things you are trying to tackle. the 50th anniversary of the roundtable what are you facing with the lame duck session? >> thanks to "squawk box" to celebrate our 50th anniversary it means a lot to us i know all of the ceos enjoy coming on the show and you get a lot of them concentrated here. >> it's great to be here thanks for inviting us >> it makes for a more festive occasion for us. you are here at a not typical turbulent time in washington lame duck session. the lame duck has done a very

important thing which is resolve the rail strike which would have been devastating to the economy. there are still a lot of things left on the agenda most importantly fund the government we like to see them do several other things among the most important is extend r&d expensing the united states is one of the only developed countries in the world that doesn't let corporations expense r& dd. we love to see permitting happening. all of the money congress appropriated in the last session, especially for green infrastru infrastructure, that money is not going out the door if you can't get a permit to build. >> what do you think of a lame

duck with nothing getting done how do you rank the issues >> anything in a lame duck is unlikely there are good signs of hope on the r&d tax issue. maybe on immigration for farm workers. the permitting reform seems to have some prospect all of those issues, whether they get partially resolved in the lame duck or not, they are still going to be around in the next session of congress we like to see the congress make progress >> we were talking about beth ford the idea of immigration. there are easy low hanging fruit that would be bipartisan what has gone wrong? it is not policy it is politicpolitics >> immigration is all about the politics comprehensive immigration reform has to be regarded as one of the biggest economic benefits to the country and has been for years

it's just been the politics which made it hard to get it across the finish line i think the answer is democrats need to accept there needs to be some enhancement to our border security some modification of asylum procedures republicans need to accept we need more people in this country. every business roundtable business throughout the economy. we need more workers the growth of the country depends on immigration so business roundtable is in the middle the of that >> we saw this before the washington example mccarthy to maccconnell why work on anything if you don't have the gavel wait until we're in charge and i'm talking to both sides. immigration i don't understand you can see one party come up

with ten points and then the other party looks and says no. the other party in charge comes up with the same ten and the other party says no. immigration should be doable >> absolutely doable that's why the ceos of the business roundtable are important. they are not interested in the zero sum game of politics. >> they need to get things done. >> immigration is a great example. >> i have a different one for you. all ceos famously signed the pledge to think about all stake holders as opposed to just profit this is four years ago the whole mentality of the country and business starting to shift. possibly in reverse. >> warning you >> was that a mistake? you see the politics of that play out you see red states push back on some of the companies for

certain things blue states often used money and influence for or against business the world's moved or seems to be what do you think now? >> i still completely stand by what we did three years ago with our statement of corporate purpose as so do the ceos. that was not some radical shift toward all of a sudden shareholders don't matter. it was a statement recognizing the way all of the ceos run their companies. if you don't take care of the employees, your customers, your suppliers, the communities in which you operate, you are not taking care of the shareholders. >> there was a period after the murder of george floyd and the vote and you can go down the list, right? companies getting involved in a lot of issues. now, i think, given the push back in certain states, there is

an anxiety of getting involved in the social issues the way they were then >> you can always go too far, andrew if you look at what some people want corporations to get involved with. you mentioned customers and shareholders and employees and suppliers. you don't have to go out 30 or 40 or go to wooded owls. not everybody is a stake holder. stop at those four the rest of the things do take care of themselves you can't do horrible things and expect to succeed. the most important thing is have a successful business and expand and hire more people and makes money and rewards shareholders it may not cure the environment today -- >> can i ask josh one more question before we go? we're out of time. very quickly before you do you put out an economic survey yesterday. what shocked me is the lowest numbers we have seen since the first quarter of 2020 in expectations for hiring.

we survived the pandemic, but now we're paying what is happening? >> the survey for the first time since the depths of the pandemic two years ago, becky, is now below our average levels it is showing an economy that's cooling definitely it is not reflecting panic among the ceos i characterize them taking the foot off the gas not slamming on the brakes i think our survey covers the next six months. at least over the next six months, what you are seeing is a group of ceos who are largely very cautious and still hopeful that there could be a soft landing in the economy most of them are still hiring and inn yovesting to some degree not as much as a year ago. hopefully we will come through in good shape.

>> thank you, josh we have more coming up on "squawk box" from washington, d.c. congress member ro khanna speaking out about with the story of hunter biden before the 2020 election. we'll talk about it after this

congress member ro khanna has an op-ed in the journal. says twitter went too far in the story of hunter biden in 2020. he says those who shared the story shouldn't have been suspended. the congress member is responding to the twitter files. surrounding the decision to censor that story from hunter biden. urging twitter not to violate principles of free speech. khanna says suppressing free

speech we don't like leaves us blind to the perspective to see the complex whole truth. he was lauded and it is a little bit disappointing because he was unique and singular in pushing back on this can actually get accolades because you are the only person that did it, and i am not saying it's just on that side, and to find somebody on the other side to break rank, you will get primaries, and so it's refreshing to see ro, and that's what we need -- i am on a soapbox. >> yeah, anybody that steps out of line with the party -- >> on either side.

ro khanna, we are thinking about running -- the other job seems much harder, doesn't it? >> yes >> coming up, the ceo of engineering and construction company, brendan bechtel will join us. he has been in business half as long as the united states has been a country still, we will talk to the ceos in the 7:00 hour lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find

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my dad instilled in me, always put the people before the money. be proud of offering a good product at a fair price. i think he'd be extremely proud of me, yeah. ♪♪ positioned to discuss a lot of things, a recently enacted c.h.i.p.s act, and sullivan over in the netherlands, and i wonder if they are still beating their

chests from saturday i bet they are brendan bechtel, 125 years -- >> next year >> that's how long bechtel has been around. it's a private company >> yeah. >> you just make integrated circuits, those types of chips you need to know everything that needs to go into the chip-making plant and you need to do lng and nuclear. i can't imagine the type of intellectual property bechtel has with its engineers >> we're lucky to be in that industry, and on behalf of our industry we applaud congress and

the administration's passage of the two bipartisan bills, the chips act, and we were just awarded to build in ohio, and $20 billion for the first phase, and going to create high-quality, high-paying construction jobs, and then ija, 6,900 projects launched as a result of the bridge projects under way. we can talk about any of that. and then the provisions the ira provided -- >> when you are bidding with intel, do you show them expertise? do you try and beat other people on how much it will cost >> obviously there's always competition, and that's

important to our customers we're seeing and our customers are seeing so much risk in supply chains right now. lingering impacts of covid, and i would say uncertainty, and high energy prices as a result of the war in iraq, and what we are doing with our supply chain partners, we are building more strategic relationships that have the resilience to get through a tightening supply chain. >> how many subcontractors are you dealing with in ohio >> we will try and perform the -- >> you don't need a land

researcher -- >> it's to push as much money to local communities as you can, and there's an emphasis on that. >> and we have been hearing complaints about the chips act and if european competitors are complaining we are subsidizing, what happens >> i think we adapt. i think it's interesting it tells you the congress and the administration did something right if it's invoking this kind of policy-making questions from the world. >> they are going to be making chips here do you think there are american firms that have the know how besides intel to do this and the risk -- if you believe the reason we are trying to do this here is one day we fear that china could overtake taiwan and therefore that company >> that's a multi-varied question >> yes >> i think that without sharing private information, i think

there are a lot of companies trying to figure out what the implications of onshoring and friend shoring of key critical supply chains here in the united states that's all i am saying >> we could keep you until 9:00. >> i will ask one more question. do you ever pull your hair out from permitting? >> yes, permitting reform to me, quickly, it's the single most -- it's about roi on taxpayer dollars with these big bills >> rnd2 -- >> absolutely. >> come back anytime >> thank you >> we have more from washington, d.c. this morning. the business roundtable, and we're going to be talking to jamie dimon and scott kirby and

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good morning we are live from our nation's capital this morning talking to the nation's top business leaders about the issues impacting the economy and your money. in this hour we will hear from united airlines ceo, scott kirby, and gm's mary barra, and doug mcmillian this is a packed hour and it's a special edition of "squawk box," and we are live from the business roundtable in d.c second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. good morning and welcome

back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc. we are live at the business roundtable in washington, d.c. where the nation's top ceos and business leaders are gathering today to discuss pressing issues facing american corporations, and i am andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernen right now you are looking at the markets -- we're up 16 points, and s&p 500 up about 3.5 points. take a look at treasuries right now. we will show you the ten-year and two-year, and we are looking at 3.561 my eyesight is going let's show you oil as well we're going to get into a conversation about airlines, and this price matters to the gentleman to my right.

wti crude, 75.86, so things are coming down. i think it's a little china and some opec plus over the weekend. >> do we need to do the math on the inversion? >> oh, the president yeah >> it was 80s, again, as high as the inversion since 1981, and we remember what happened in 1981, and hopefully we are not in for the same thing >> i headed up earlier this morning. >> you did >> yeah. >> great minds it's almost 81 let's get to dom chu, and he watches that like a hawk, including everything else including premarket movers >> let's start with a check because we are watching america's most valuable bank, jpmorgan chase, and the shares of premarket volume, and today they are getting some help from

analysts at wp morgan stanley. the target price goes up to 153 and it was 126 and market share gains for its consumer focused operations and less valuation down side during a possible recessionary scenario and then the shifting analyst coverage over at jpmorgan, and shares of royal caribbean have been double downgraded, and it goes to 47 bucks and it was 126. the possibility it needs to raise more capital in the future were concerns. and then a little green there,%

for for norwegian and carnival axios is reporting that layoffs have begun at video game and retailer, and game stop, by the way, expected to report its quarterly results after closing bell tomorrow, and we will see gamestop shares in focus back over to you >> thank you we have soaring costs, and they have not stopped consumers from traveling at or near prepandemic levels let's bring in united airlines ceo, scott kirby what airport did you fly into? >> dulles, but i use both. >> we think the economy is in a challenged spot, and yet the traveling has not stopped. >> yeah, for us, we are still setting records.

i think we are basically going to have a mild recession induced by the fed, and there's another trend, and during the pandemic you couldn't travel, go to restaurants or get your hair cut, and they spent money on home furnishings and that's going back to normal >> any sign things are shifting at all when you say there's going to be a recession, is that because everybody else says there is going to be a recession or because you see numbers that says, okay, the dashboard -- >> i spent the weekend in d.c., and when i talk to people in politics, i said if i didn't watch cnbc, which i do, the word recession wouldn't be in my vocabulary you just don't see it. >> they are going to cause one do you see the delta pilots?

>> for us, the for the big airlines, that's good news >> i guess they deserve it, but what was it, 35% >> 34% what has happened because there's a pilot shortage in the industry, and we have costs -- they can't hire people unless they get close to being competitive with us, and that means, from an inflation perspective, that's an issue >> it means the fed has to go further to -- >> yeah, i read this morning from governor waller, the need to raise prices. >> raising prices on seats, for example, are you seeing any shift? people who used to buy a really big tv, they might be trying to

find a marginally cheaper tv >> first, air fares, if you went back 10 to 15 years, they are lower and prices are coming down we are coming up from a low bottom and then people that always had the money to travel, and people that work in manhattan, but they used to be tethered to their desk monday through friday, and now they can leave wednesday, thursday, work remotely, and now those that have disposable income to travel have time now, and they are the ones traveling more and there's a structural change for travel because of that >> it's the flip side of the remote stuff >> i think the old matrix are probably wrong, because you see people doing what i just described and you see people trading a two-hour daily commute

in san francisco by car for a twice a month travel, and this is probably indicative of prerecessionarybehavior has plateaued. we think there's more room to run on it once people have more confidence about the economy eu >> what does that mean for the profitability? >> we are going to, in the fourth quarter, our guidance was we were back to 2019 profit margins which was near an all-time high for us, and even with the high fuel prices and recessionary environment, and we are coming back to the near all-time profit margins, and demand is high, and boeing and airbus are behind, and so it's good >> do you feel like everybody

has their act together finally on schedule? >> all the big airlines do the faa has done a gate job. they were much more day-to-day at a higher senior level, you know, focused on making sure there are traffic controllers, and every airline essentially are carrying more people >> for international, people have not been to europe for years, and that's a big pent-up thing. i know it is >> we grew this summer 25 to 30% across the atlantic. it was great >> back to, what, 70% of the peak >> no, we're 125% of the peak. >> it's the best it has ever been >> yeah. and china is the last market in the world -- >> do they have the seats to

europe or are they all the pods. >> some of both. you can buy pods >> are you working on that you have to convert all the planes >> the battery company, what is that about >> we are the leader in sustainable efforts for global aviation, and what we are trying to do on some of this, it's not about what the technology will do for us tomorrow, but it's about finding the people that are at the leading edge of the sustainable technology, and being involved and knowing what is happening we can help shape what the future is going to look like >> these are not investments you think pay off directly in terms of use cases >> this one in particular -- there are some use cases for the airline, but it's more about how can you be at the leading edge of battery technology and figure out the next set of use cases.

we think we are going to make money and we know they are not all going to work out like a private equity investment, but some will work out well. from my perspective, people at the leading edge, understanding what is happening at a detailed level that will let us get ahead of the future. >> scott kirby of united see you in the air, my friend. >> thanks, scott when we come back, we will go from planes to trains and then automobiles we will talk about supply chain concerns that averted a railroad strike, thank goodness and then general motor's ceo, mary barra, will join us next. the nasdaq is up by 38, and the s&p up by 7. "squawk box" will be right back.

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the recent threat of a possible rail strike revealed the fragility of supply chain

issues on the u.s. economy, and joining us now is the ceo of one of the biggest railways in the united states, union pacific ceo. we can relax for five years? >> for two years >> do you see similar issues in two years or are they different every time it comes up >> during this negotiation, i think the issues changed while covid was happening. when we came into this negotiation, remember our deal structure was really good wages, long-term benefits, and for that if you got sick you would take personal leave days or vacation. during the negotiation, covid made our employees think maybe we need paid sick leave, too, and by then it was late and crowded out by other issues. >> would they have traded that

out, paid sick leave instead of higher pay >> we don't know >> we have seen the dramaization of building out the railroad, and it's just as important as today, and it never lessoned in important, and it's $2 billion a day if it shuts down >> yeah, 40% of the freight. it's the best in the world >> we have i-phones but nothing is better than sending things by rail incredible let's talk about everything else the supply chain -- things can build up at a port if the rails are not working or the truckers are on strike, and it's a miracle when everything runs smoothly where are we right now >> parts of the supply chain are

pretty much recovered, and in long beach and l.a., there's a handful of ships, if any, waiting to get on dock >> part of the problem is the freight is going other places. >> yeah, that has occurred there has been a shift of container freight to the east coast and west coast and containers are stacked up trying to get into warehouses for distribution, and we have to work through inventory through this season and next year so that part of the supply chain can get back to normal >> you use hydrocarbons, and there's electric trucks coming and we're not there yet, a long way to go, and air freight and it's hard to replace jet fuel. what would you tell policymakers about making it easy to find energy domestically?

we want to do renewables -- well, larry just said it could take years to get around to that, but what do you think, 2100 >> for now and into the foreseeable future, we need to make segues into bio and renewable diesel, and we are also developing hydrogen as a primary fuel but it's going to be a long time before -- >> decades >> -- before it converts decades, maybe, that's a hard call and technology will be advancing and it all connects. >> vrt doesn't think it's -- >> no, they do think it's

necessary. we have hopes this congress can do both. >> which one is more likely? >> it's hard to say, becky >> we just talked to scott kirby, and he said we think a recession is coming but not based on anything he sees in his numbers, and he has lots of bookings going out, and railways may be the best gauge of the economy. what do you see? >> the housing market has clearly slowed, and parcel packaging has clearly slowed, and we are seeing that in paper and parcel shipments and some of the onshoring is creating opportunity for us, and infrastructure, we are seeing that in rock and steel it's a mixed bag the consumer side of the economy is slowing >> it has been around since the 19th century, but i bet the

computer systems that go into keeping everything -- keeping trains apart and keeping things from being delayed, that can make or break a quarter, can't it >> like all industrial companies, we are a technology company now and we invest in things like precision gate technology, and it's so trucks can be more efficient on the ramps. in terms of controlling the network through computer-aided dispatching, and precision crews -- so a crew instead of having to go to a depot and tying up a terminal can do it on a hand-held device, and it makes our data more accurate >> when you watch cnbc and we talk about how high we're going to go with the interest rates,

and we have to get inflation under control and it's so insidious for so much of the economy, and i am willing to accept hurting demand and hurting growth rates and raising unemployment -- all these things that go along with it, is it worth it do you want them to go that far to break the back of inflation, and we are finally humming after the pandemic, do you want to make sure we screw that up >> i think there's no doubt some demand will be destroyed as the fed raises rates, and that's economics. how much and how much is needed? that's their call. what we will do is ship what we can when it's made available from the goods economy to the service economy, that's real as well and impacting our demand as well >> and there's a mismatch for skills it's a labor market that may not be manageable by higher interest

rates because it's after the pandemic and there are so many different factors about the labor market that it's a moving target that the fed is trying to hit with all of us in the line of fire with a slower economy and hurting demands. it's not good. >> i go to immigration reform, which is a good thing -- >> it's not going to happen. >> it should be bipartisan >> it is, until one side, says, oh, my god, we're talking to the other side, we can't do this a lot of times they both have the same points, and we talked about that earlier >> uh-huh. >> and we are in washington, so i don't know, what do we do? >> we call on congress through our eyes >> k street is alive and well, is it not? >> indeed. >> a little different subject. lance, thank you >> thank you, very much. thank you for hosting. >> when we come back, gm ceo,

mary barra will be our guests. and doug mcmillian will talk about inflation and how the consumer is doing now and much more at the top of the hour, jamie dimon will join us to talk about what he sees in the economy. new this morning, morgan esg is responsible investing. who's responsible for building esg into your investments? at pgim, the pursuit is on for outperformance. stanley, under weight to overweight to outdeliver with customized strategies, integrating esg best practices into our investment decisions. as asset managers and fiduciaries, to outserve, with our commitment to better esg outcomes. join the pursuit of outperformance at pgim.

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123450eu6789 still mary barra is going to be here to talk about the company's electric vehicle business and the future of the industry, and then the ceo of the largest retailer will be joining us as well to talk about the state of the consumer inflation pressure, and then jamie dimon will be with us, and we will talk about what he sees in the economy right now. "squawk box" cinomg back from

the business roundtable in washington in just a moment. this is real time insights sam, so great to have you here we know every business is seeking a competitive advantage. what are some of the ways they are doing so right now >> you know, over the last three years companies had to navigate a steady stream of change and chaos. i think the organizations that are making agility and change their core competency are out performing their peers they recognize they have to transform fast, and have to use

partners in ecosystems to get that done. >> why can they not go it alone anymore? >> the supply chain, and their customers' expectations are changing rapidly, so they have to be able to use partners to pivot fast and navigate the new market we are helping to change business model and business processes, and we are using data to turn that into information, and in the past it would have taken years, and by using ecosystems, we were able to do it in months >> thank you appreciate it. >> thank you for having me

welcome back to "squawk box. we are at the business roundtable gathering of the biggest business leaders coming together the chair of the round table, mary barra is here, gm's ceo >> thank you for coming to washington >> great conversations help us understand what is happening in the auto industry what is happening to supply chain and used car prices? this is a barometer for everything else? >> we are watching it carefully, too. we are in the most significant transformations in the last 100 years from a software defined vehicle, so a tremendous amount of change going on then we have the added

challenges of semiconductors of other supply chain challenges, and it's getting better. every quarter it gets better i predict we will have those challenges into '23 >> what does '23 look like, from a supply chain issue, and then some people say a recession is coming but some people don't see it, and what does that look like >> we are planning for a fairly conservative 2023. what we are seeing is strong pricing and low incentives and customer -- i can't talk about the whole industry but for our products, and we have a full-sized truck and launching heavy duty trucks next year, and we have the chevy siller silvero

we are trying to make sure we are being conservative and how we are planning for costs and there is still pent-up demand. i will not call a recession, and that's for the economists to do but we are seeing a strong consumer >> what andrew is getting to, we are seeing the consumer buying so rapidly because they couldn't travel and do services, and we saw them started spending things on other things and those services got shocked, and are you preparing to make sure that doesn't happen to you guys >> yeah, we are taking a conservative plan for next year but with the ability to seize up size if it's there that's how we are planning our portfolio. >> i love the gm and the es

escalades and the big profit margins, but they do guzzle a lot of gas should we keep making those? should we want gas prices to come down, or should we be like europe and -- you want to do both >> i think we are the only full line manufacturer that says we plan to do all electric with our light-duty vehicles by 2035, and if you love the escalate, driving the hummer, it's a super truck and it's incredible, and next year we will have the chevy si sil silverado, and if they want to, they can drive trucks and will have credible electric trucks. >> when it comes to evs, there's a battle between ford and their dealers and selling evs and the

investment it takes on the dealers' side. >> we recognize the change was coming and the consumer was changing on how they wanted to do business. some want to do everything on line, and some want to go to the lot and kick the tires, and we are changing the business model and together we are working to take costs out of what it takes to sell a vehicle. i am grateful for our dealers and they have done a great job taking care of the consumer through the whole period, and people will recognize the competitive advantage. >> there are other pieces, and it's the debate in washington right now, and president macron was here talking to president biden about it, and the subsidies being provided to the american car manufacturers along with the subsidies not being provided to the foreign car manufacturers, and will that change and have an impact on

you? >> first, understand, ira, the incentives and the tax credits are for those investing in the united states. it doesn't matter if you are a u.s. or foreigner -- >> well, in a environment when we talked about who our friends are and allies, and that's where it comes into play, right? >> over time we will find solutions, but when you look at the intent of the ira, it's to show that we create jobs in the country and evs are good for the country. we have a battery plant up and running in ohio and will have another in tennessee next year and one in michigan the following year we are investing in plants in the u.s. to build our vehicles, and also the battery components, so we are investing in the united states, in the economy. >> when we sat down and we talked about the corvette, and you spend money designing new cars it has always been that way and should be that way, and i can

think of how many camaros i loved over the years, and then the elephant in the room is the t word, tesla has done it differently, and the model s has looked the same for years and years, and is it worth it? will you always have dealers >> i think the dealers are the competitive advantage, because somebody needs to take care of the dealers. general motors has the highest customer loyalty in the industry in the united states and our dealers rank high in sales and service satisfaction when you get to people buying evs and it's the only vehicle they have, they need to know that vehicle, if there is an issue it will be fixed quickly, and that's when the dealers are a true strength. again, we are adapting because the customer is changing and as you look at -- it's about having the right vehicle. it's one thing when in the early days you can limit that, but we are a full-line manufacturer, and we need to have vehicles

from the hummer to a very affordable vehicle, the electric equinox will be $35,000, and that's the heart of the market >> you won't need to change every year -- >> we don't change every year, and a lot is happening because i mentioned earlier, the vehicle is becoming a software platform and you can do a lot to enhance the vehicle without changing the metal. >> joe mentioned tesla, and you recently paused advertising on twitter which is owned by elon musk can you explain that decision? was it to punish elon musk and tesla or because of the product safety -- >> we pause every time there's a major change in the company, and our teams are having conversations, and you have to remember it's competitors, and we want to make sure our

advertising strategies are kept confidential the teams are having ongoing conversations. >> do you expect the big automakers will say, you know, i don't want to advertise on this platform because i am handing cash over to a competitor? >> i don't think that's the way we are looking at it we are looking at it as where is the platform going >> the brt has a lot of things they want to see from washington what is the top priority and what is the main thing you want to get accomplished and is it tougher because some senators have taken a dimmer view of what has happened already >> i think there are things getting done, averting the rail strike that would have been, you know, very difficult for the auto industry, and i think most industries going forward we would like to see the debt ceiling resolved. rnd expense, and as we look to

want to invest more and have technology in this country, and to not have rnd expenses, and immigration reform is important, and everything we are trying to accomplish whether it's on infrastructure, i think there's important work that brt can work in a bipartisan matter >> thank you >> good to see you as well >> thank you coming up, walmart ceo, doug mcmillon joins us next -- oh, they changed it. it said -- i didn't know if i should read that how would you say that >> super -- i would say that because i am edit it in my head.

i am smart enough to do that >> that's an idea. maybe i will do that and we also have the ceos of jpmorgan chase the spaoper lineup -- >> see, that's just you. >> yeah, it is did you see the jefferson -- >> yes, it's beautiful the washington monument is right here >> we will talk about crypto and much more. i am out of breath and reminder, get the best of "squawk box" on our daily podcast, and listen anytime. "squawk box"ill wbe right back after this short commercial break.

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here we go holiday shopping season is in full affect, but inflation concerns about the economy changed consumer habits. we have the chance to talk to doug mcmillon, the ceo of walmart. good to see you. i think people forget about the size and scope of walmart. we were talking just before we came, and i was thinking it's 2.1 million employees, and it's closer to 2.3 million employees,

and that makes walmart the largest employer outside of the government you are probably the very best person we could talk to about jobs and what is happening, and what is happening with the consumer what do you want to start with >> let's start with the customer >> how are things going? >> we said at the end of the third quarter, they are stressed we have customers that are budget conscious, and it started changing in march and april of this year. that sustained pressure in some categories, i think, is something that customers are having to deal with as we approach christmas >> you have a growing number of customers that make over $100,000 that's where a lot of this is coming >> yeah, a lot of the growth this quarter is people coming to walmart to save money. as we focused on thanksgiving and events around thanksgiving whether it's food or the general

merchandise categories, we are doing our best to keep our prices low for everybody and customers are seeing that value. >> inflation has been such a bear and has eaten its way into what the consumer is trying to spend money on what do you do >> it's helpful to break that down into different categories fresh food is more volatile, and beef prices are down, and chicken is high, and produce prices are low and relatively what they were before. and dry grocery, and that's the most stubborn. double-digit inflation rates will be around for a while and we are trying to come up with creative ways to keep our customers down and then there's general merchandise, in toys, sporting goods, apparel and categories like that. prices have come down more aggressively, and we are still

inflated but not as much as in the other categories families are choosing when they buy the big basket of things they need all the time, and many are coming to us for the food and consumable baskets and they are being selective on general merchandise, and tvs are still strong but there are other categories where they are being more conservative. >> if you had to gauge the health of the consumer, where would you put it is this on par or a letter grade you would give them? >> it's pressured, and there are folks that still have money to spend and it's the full suite. >> everybody is saying it's going to get worse but they don't -- in some businesses they don't see it, and you are seeing it, and the question is do you think that persists and gets materially worse -- when you guys were all having cocktails last night, what do you tell them >> looking back at history might

be helpful so many people didn't get to travel during the pandemic, so there's that pent-up demand and they are spending the money to do that because it's a priority. what i see is they are prioritizing when you have been home, as some people were for two years, and you are spending money on your house and not apparel -- >> but it's being split differently, but the pot is not shrinking? >> it's both if you think of dollars as units, like in our fourth quarter, you will hear the national retail federation talking about the dollar being inflated, and some could look and say things are getting better, and for a family sometimes those prices are not coming down but just stabilizing at a higher level. >> you talked about the affect of inflation and how depill

ta debilitating that is on your customers, and if you pick your poison, nobody wants a recession or destroying an economy, and does it matter with the business you are in where inflation is probably affecting you more than scott, scott kirby >> our focus is on serving the customers, and there are many of them that really need help as it relates to inflation, so that's our focus. >> should the fed do what it needs to do even if it's a much harder landing than we would like >> i think inflation needs to be dealt with >> you do? >> i am trying to come up with the equation that creates the softest land something a huge challenge, and our role is to give them data >> how difficult is it to get employees? >> we're in pretty good shape in the u.s. in most roles, but we see pressure at cashier levels and so we are raising wages, and

go all the way back to 2015, and our wage increases have outpaced ourselves in growth by a long shot we are finding ways to do that >> and is happening with theft, with shrinkage, stuff that walks out of the door i've spoken with other retailers who said this is a national issue, a state issue, a citywide issue. laws matter where these things aren't prosecuted. what does it mean for the bottom line and what would you like to see people in washington and elsewhere do about it? >> theft is an issue, it is higher than what it has historically been and we've safety measures by store location i think local law enforcement being staffed and being a good partner is part of that equation and that is normally how we approach it. >> but there have been rules that have been changed that make it not something that police

will prosecute, the criminals won't be prosecuted below certain levels. >> if that is not corrected, over time prices will be higher and stores will close. >> and do you have to go state by state and work on that issue? i just saw a video of some burglars in the apple store just literally just taking. just taking everything that they could and the apple employees were told, stand back and just let it all happen. and maybe that is the right decision in the moment but clearly there is something larger going on. >> it is city by city, and location by location store managers working with local law enforcement. we have glaet relationships and that is the way we approach it. >> and so what would you like to see from -- >> as it related to -- >> from a business round table perspective. >> it is just policy consistency and clarity. so we could make capital investment with some -- >> good luck.

>> the supply chain issues, you saw what the inventory and we're going to do this at the end of the pandemic and we have all of this is it easier now are you able to -- >> it is a great challenge of retail, joe, to have what they want when they want it where they want it >> that is over the effects -- >> no, it is very fluid. we saw things change in the first quarter. it is gotten better but because we went through an adjustment this summer. our team has done a great job. once we saw things change and it was the middle of march when our red lights were going off in my office and our merchants started figuring out what inventory levels we need for lady's wear and what do we need in pets and in our slim margin business, you can't afford a lot of excessive payroll or markdowns so our team has done a good job of getting to a good spot. >> what were the red lights going off in your office what were the calls or signals

that were like oh, my gosh. >> what our team saw fairly quickly about how the mix of food and general merchandise was changing. >> you're a large advertiser what is shifting and what are you seeing working and what is not working. >> one of the most hiinterestin things is how commerce, social commerce is growing. we saw that happen in china with our business there and now it is happening everywhere so we think a lot and we're growing an ad business you probably know. think about how commerce and advertising work together on various plat fors an we want to be there and we want people to be on the walmart app and be wherever they want to shop or think about merchandise. >> in terms of spend >> it is more digital. >> is it facebook and insta or tiktok. >> all of the above. >> is twitter working for you, is it not working for you. we talked to mary barra, they paused think program. >> we're watching that closely >> are you still advertising on

that platform. >> we are. >> and you have paused. >> we have not paused. and we've moved to more digit investment it is fluid based on what is happening with current results. >> so your spending more on digital or tv. >> it is the total moving. >> the% aept of totals moving. >> we have the worst inversion in the 10-year two-year since 1981 god forbid we go into a deep recession. would you restructure? would you have to do that? you could see yourself doing a large round of cuts? >> most of our associates are in stores and clubs and distribution centers around the world. and customers and members need to be served so our head count growth will go up and we're doing more deliveries with associate and picking more orders in stores with our home associates we're constantly creating new roles and changing jobs. if you look at history, you read

things about us moving positions from one spot to the other in the end we end up adding. it is a net growth company and i think it will be. >> how do you do that? how do you satisfy shareholders that want to buy a consistent grower, what do you do with the slim margins. you've got market -- can market share go up from where it is >> yeah. >> it can? >> absolutely. >> walmart -- >> we need him to shop on walmart more. >> i'm a walmart plus customer. >> thank you appreciate that. >> doug, i always appreciate how interested you are in innovation and change because this is an industry that changes rapidly. several years ago you showed me your list of the top ten retailers and how they all get washed out so what rup seeing that the coolest things you've seen lately what is the coolest thing that you are trying out that maybe we don't know about yet >> it is the supply chain.

there is incredible stuff in front of us with automated stores, back in distribution and fulfillment centers, i was in chicago last week that was still automated. still with a lot of associates doing a great job. last mile delivery, including the work we're doing with drones, we're delivering all into the refrigerator. and many of our markets like at our house, if i'm traveling, we could have our groceries waiting in our refrigerator in our garage when we get home. it is fantastic. so that whole suite, that supply chain innovation, robotics and the way we put data to work, that is going to unlock a lot of value for the company going forward. >> i was just reading that you will take over it is not the companies that we're using now. these side companies, whether they are fresh direct or something else. >> the big super centers, within 10 miles of 70% of america, they have a broad assortment with less mile delivery create a

delivery for other people and route density and save money. >> do you still have the list in your pocket. >> yeah. i do i've turned my phone off like i was supposed to. >> we made him turn off his phone. >> it's in my phone. >> thank you very much for being with us. >> doug mcmillion from walmart. >> thank you our next guest, it is very difficult to -- jp morgan chase ceo jamie dimon is going to talk to us about the economy, housing and jobs and the fed that interview coming up right after the break. and then raytheon ceo greg hayes is with us and we'll talk washington and tax policy and supply chain and so much more. supply chain and so much more. anth rinood enob h power e*trade's easy-to-use tools d co-foue vlad tenev "squawk box" returns after this. s

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and now a lot more people can. so let's go. the digital age is waiting. good morning, and welcome to another very special hour of "squawk box. with markets and monetary policy and the global economy in a cross roads. this hour we're speaking with some of the country's top corporate leaders.

on deck, we have interviews live from business roundtable with jp morgan and raytheon and honeywell. plus robinhood ceo is going to join us after a bruising year for them and sam bankman fried took a stake in robinhood the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now ♪ good morning and welcome back to "squawk box. you have to have been here all along. i'm joe kernen and with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin we're in washington, d.c. on the 12th floor of some building where we have a view of the jefferson and this big pointy thing back here. >> that would be the washington mom. >> that is it. and we're speaking with some of

the country's top corporate leaders. >> including jamie dimon. >> including jame ie dimon who laughing at me, with me. dow and nasdaq up 19 i want to get to treasury yields we're going to touch on interest rates with dr. dimon here. dr. dimon. 3.559 and then the two year, i think it is about 80 basis points, whether that becomes prescient, we'll see at some point. but there is it is there is the inversion almost 81. and that is the highest since i think 1981 which was not a -- didn't bring in some great -- 13.5 tax for bonds triple tax for bonds and 21.5% prime rate do you remember that. >> i do remember i started working around then. first of all, welcome.

i'm thrilled to be here. i miss all of you guys but i really miss becky. >> you keep saying that. you flow you're going to press buttons with that. >> that is why he does it. >> between me and andrew. >> it is high. >> who is second. >> it is a tie >> we're tied for second >> i'll take it. >> jamie let's talk about what is happening it is great to see you back in person and i think there is so much happening right now around the globe. we've been waiting for this conversation you know what is happening in markets, you know what is happening in the economy and with consumers what do you see right now. i think everybody was concerned what was it six months ago when a hurricane is coming, you better be prepared. >> i didn't really say that. but the united states economy is the strongest economy in the world today so we should celebrate that and that is why capital is coming here, business is coming here it is still growing. if you look in the short run, the consumer is spending 10% more than last year and 40% more than pre-covid and so some are doing better and

some are doing worse that is a tremendous sum of money and they have a trillion and a half dollars still in their checking account so their spending is down and the companies are doing great, consumer balance sheets are in great shape. rates are 4% on the way to 5%. and inflation is eroding anything and that trillon and a half dollars will run out midyear. and when those things may derail the economy and cause a mild or hard recession people are worried about. but far more important is the j geopolitical stuff. >> you said 5% do you think that is where rates will stop? >> i think the fed has made it clear they're going to get to five and then they'll stop for a while, three to six months that may not be sufficient. >> you would still go to five. if the ten-year stays anchored at 3.5, you think it is heading back up. >> we have quantitative

tightening and we've never had it before in the lifetime so that is something that we should be quite kenned about. and so the ten year bond rate has been going on for 20 years and so it is very possible and if you have 2% inflation, should have a 4% bond today so i don't look at this like it has to get better. obviously it is a risk on trade. but that mindset may change if inflation sticks around a little bit longer >> you said geopolitics is really the issue that we need to watch. >> so we have this economy, but then you have oil, food, fertilizer, war, humanitarian crisis we've not had a war in europe like this since 1945 and back then we said never again. and it is again. and then of course closing all of this people rethinking secure lines and china and trade.

and this is a lot of jgee opolitical -- and some will pay a heavy price for the strong dollar and high raters and what i issaid about the hurricane, it could mitigate, it could be a hurricane we simply don't know as a risk manager, i'm prepared for both but i'm not guessing which will happen, i don't know. >> which looks like the more likely scenario. >> i don't know. >> is it 50/50. >> i put that in turmoil to be worried about and we need great american leadership to resolve those issues and that the the most important part. >> can i throw into the mix which i think is a small piece but maybe you think it is a bigger piece janet yellen called the failure of ftx last week a lehman moment in crypto. i don't foe if that is contained and or a symbol of something

larmer happening. >> crypto is a side show and you spend too much time on it crypto tokens are like pet rocks and people hyping this stuff up. that doesn't mean blockchain is not real or web 3.0. but cryptocurrency that don't do anything i don't understand why people. but i don't think she meant a lehman moment, a lehman moment for crypto it is worth a trillion dollars the other thing the american public should look at when you look at crypto, bitcoin is worth like under a hundred thousand dollars, but the 20 to 30 billion of ransom and that we know about and terrorism financing and tax avoidance, sex trafficking, why do we allow this stuff to take place and i think the beat up on banks and focus on crypto.

>> things were going well before crypto. >> crypto is about 2% of the -- let me ask you this. and this is what might keep me up at night. so wage price spirals. the labor market is different. and there is one-offs and pandemic and participation rate and skillsets aren't matched with what is going on. but is a wage price spiral possible is that possibly in the cards. what happened back in the -- what was the real underlying cause that got us to 13.5% mortgage rate. is that ever going to happen again? >> that -- before you get to 13%, you had year after year of inflation out of control this is, i think, the fed has moved, a day late and a dollar short but they moved pretty quickly. but we have $6 trillion of a fiscal stimulus over a two year period it is very different than

quantitative easing. >> did we print a lot of money i wasn't following -- >> the vietnam war didn't pay attention to prices going up over an extended period of time. so inflation started in 1972 and then -- >> and you're talking about -- >> it didn't hit the peak until 1982. >> we're not on the cusp of a similar period. >> i think we're coming out of covid and the central banks have been quite aggressive recently >> the dollar, super strong. there is some concern that that becomes a doom loop. meaning great for the united states, but when you think about the multi-national clients and what that means. >> because they're raising rates. >> right but the balance is out of whack with all of the other central banks. that is sort of the issue. >> but that is just interest rates and currency adjusting so if the have strongest economy, you're going to have the strongest currency and i'm not worried about what it does to multi-nationals

i'd be much more worried about what is it does to developing countries. >> and it has that impact. >> that is one of the risks. the higher dollar rates and higher dollar effect on the emerging markets around the world and we should be very careful about that and i think america needs to do a better job on develop finance and diplomacy. a just took a trip around latin america and when you talkabout china and trade, they say well what is the alternative. you guys aren't down here. you're not doing stuff of this stuff. your companies aren't investing so we need to do a lot to get our hands around it. the united states military is the most amazing institution but they talk about it needs the orchestra of power is not just the military it is also development, finance, diplomacy and telling the story about the extraordinary capabilities of america. >> how does that message settle

in washington, when go to congress and try to talk about foreign aid. >> foreign aid doesn't sound great but if you talk about competing with china it re resonates better and if you go to latin america, it could be done by corporations i'm not talking about foreign aid. i'm talking abouthelping american businesses invest in places around the world intelligently. >> should we still strive to be a frenemy of china i think we do, don't we. it is harder and harder. >> america has all of the food, water and energy it needs. they import 11 million barrels of oil a day they don't have enough food or water. we have this unbelievable most prosperous nation and we shouldn't cry in our soup. we're okay >> but the globalization less, is it going to continue to wane.

>> i think if you take all of the globalization, i think a portion will be reversed, a portion as people restructure is supply chains and the government will put rules in place which they should properly, not over do it, but export controls and investment controls but after that, global trade will not go away and so we're in a competition with china i'll leave the military stuff to the military but we're going to outcompete them you're not going to be able to outcompete the united states as long as we nurture this wonderful economy. >> we know how attractive their consumers are. there is no way american business could say i want that market. >> if you separate the world of two trading blocks, this is the better trading block. >> right well, tell that to the nba. >> and they're a huge market but not hostile forces with each other. >> jamie, let's talk about shareholder rights and the movement that the business round table has been going offer for the last three years we brought this up today with josh bolton.

looking at all stakeholders, that is translated in some ways into capitalism and there are some pushback from the red state and from other places. what do you say to defend that how do you explain to them >> i don't think that has anything to do with capitalism. >> okay. explain. >> i don't know what people mean by woke because there are a lot of issues out there. but there was a top -- and i walked up and said you're going to get this job not because you're so smart, which you are, but because you have heart and that they give a dam about the 150,000 employees and the millions of customers going in and out of those doors every day. i mean that. i care about my employees and you could say shareholder value and i've said this a hundred times, shareholder value and the american public, they hear short-term profit taking, fiduciary standing behind your employees. i needed to come back. you go to a restaurant, they take care of you what is the notion that we shouldn't take care of employees and customers.

and you talk about volk. do you want so stop hiring veterans we started that 100,000 jobs and now 800,000 veterans, are you telling me that is bad to do if we lift up society, a small town or a big town we got involved in policy. if you lift up society, business is better off. >> when were you not doing that? >> we did it >> so you need to make a statement four years ago that you will start doing that. >> we did because people thought they misreed shareholder value and they think that we're profit taking. >> here is where it is come martin l -- complicated. if you don't loan money to fossil fuel companies or you don't do business where gun companies or other things, where you have taken it a stance for whatever reason, whether it is very well be for your employees but now because of that backlash, it is become very complicated. >> i don't think it has anything

to do with statement you're just confusing apples and oranges. businesses are being dragged into the various issues. we defend our people and our own right to free speech if a state wants to do something like that, so be it. we support all of the big oil companies who by the ways that will pay for most of this transition to reduce co2 they're doing the best job so my view is we'll do the right thing and some of the states will question it and they have the right to question it and it cost those states a lot of money when they don't have -- >> who said will you pledge right here, right now to not support any fossil fuel companies. >> the road to hell for america. that was played around the world. >> that is classic jamie dimon >> the lesson wasn't learned from ukraine, we need cheap, reliable, safe, secure energy of which 80% comes from oil and gas and that number is going to be very high for 10 or 20 years that is not against co2.

we've been telling people that higher oil and gas prices are leading to more co2. so having it cheaper has the virtue of reducing co2 and poor nations are turning back on their coal plants. we have to stop this thing that it is one versus the other it is not. we need some as i said before, all of the above we need all of the things to work well and if we get it right we could reduce co2 and it will hurt poor people in poor nations. and that is what you want to accomplish do you think that is good for the globe. so people should be more thoughtful. >> there is way too many dots here >> broader economic question but it relates to banking. maybe not your own loan book but when you look at loan book out there to corporate america to the private equity firms, if we do have a hard landing, how dangerous is that? i know there is the creation in private equity of this idea of collateralized fund obligations. sort of like the old finalized debt obligations now it is all

taking the debts from the funds and slicing them up and creating a new instrument when you look at those type of things, do you get concerned >> no. yes but no not for the reaso you're thinking. our capital cup runneth over and i'm proud of what we do as a company for individuals and small businesses and governments. imf and world bank, large corporations, middle market companies, you if go to a branch across the river here, in the neighborhood lifting up people around the world, small businesses and cities and states and schools hospitals, that is what we do and i'm damn proud of that and these banks, not just mine are extremely strong and there are always new financial instruments out there. if you're always going to make a book about what goes wrong it is new financial instruments. but they are not systemic. our loan books and i think the banks will have a normal cycle, whenever that cycle it

it is not like an '08, but a normal cycle but if you have a recession we'll have higher losses but we're here to serve people through the cycle. i don't want to pull back in the cycle and in spite of the fact that is what some of the rules and regulations make you do. but i want to be here in good and bad times. >> what will you do less of or what are you doing less as of a result of the concerns about what is coming is it home loans in certain places >> would you be surprised. the management team goes through and see what we can handle so we're not going to pull back on anything because we mieght go into a recession the banks had hundreds of billion dollars to clients pre-covid. and i've have this docka mamie things that they were built out by the -- we did not we did well trading before they intervened and out there helping our clients. so what you could do to mitigate

risk is you might do less sub prime or do that maybe not do new customers and ifsy bank is in any kind of trouble, they're much more restrictive than a bank that is doing well but the budge looks at how we do if things are good or bad and our plans are to hire, retrain and recruit and invest and we're now in 48 states which we are very proud of. and we're just keep on expanding. >> the entire business news landscape needs a headline from jamie dimon about a recession next year. i'm sorry. you're here, we've got you so jamie dimon said, yes, there will be a recession in 2023, or no, there will not be a -- >> exactly where all of my handles out there say don't give them that headline i'm not going to do it >> you're not going to do it so what are we supposed to say >> america is great. >> those of you who travel the

world, all of the folks, you come back to this country and you look at innovation and the growth and the universities and even with all of our squabbling in the government which i don't particularly like and josh bolton was on tv and what a unbelievable job about policy. we need policy on infrastructure, education, taxation and regulation and health care. i'll give you another number we grew 2% a year. 1.7% a year from 2000 to 2020. and there are a lot of reasons i won't go through now i will go through in a second. but we should have aspired to 3% gdp per person would be 15$15,0 higher today and you could afford more other things and the reason that we grew at 2% and not 3%, the reason is excessive regulation, health care, infrastructure, education and in that one, education, if you look at it, jobs bring dignity we need kids to be trained to

have jobs and a lost companies around here spend a lot of time in that. wnd and we want the kids to have jobs and the companies pay well. >> there is a story out today that you're trying to tackle health care once again you had the initiative with amazon and berkshire that you canceled out and said it is not working. what are you doing differently this time? >> the objective, you live and learn. was that a failure no we make tons of mistakes and modify from that we spend $2 billion in health care and 450,000 insured so that included their families. we want to you be healthy. so if you get preventative care, that could save your life. if you have high blood pressure or diabetes that you didn't know about. telemedicine is going to work for depression, there are a lot of things that work nor drugs. so to me there is a lot to work here and walmart, i know dog was just on, they've done a great job. so there is a lot to learn we're going to go at it and we

want our employees to be healthier and happier and hopefully at a lower cost. >> you have people that try to manage you and what you say? is that all of those people that are standing over here right now? >> no. this is mostly cnbc people these are like overhead. i'm shocked. >> that is why they're here. >> you guys have all of this overhead and you complain about your margins. >> they throw up their hands and say jamie is going to be big >> jamie, thank you. it is great to see you and i think we'll see you again soon >> we'll see you in switzerland. >> cockamamie was on my bingo card i love that word that is a good one >> thank you, sir. coming up, a lot more on this final hour of "squawk box" ahead. we'll have interviews with the ceo of raytheon and honeywell. take a look at the futures as we head to a break. we're setting ourselves up about

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welcome back to "squawk box" on cnbc. we are live at the business round table this morning and our next guest chairs tax and fiscal policy for the group here to talk about that as well as the global defense industry is greg

hayes, chairman and ceo of raytheon stock has been a winner so far this year. it is up 17% it is a dangerous world, greg. and most people would look at that statement and say that it is unfortunate that it is everywhere i don't know how many pockets are that you have to monitor between north korea, between china and russia and iran and that is just for starters. in addition to everything else you have to think about buybacks and tax policy so i talked to you last night, do you sleep at all? >> occasionally. >> just unsettled sleep. >> as i said last night, it is a dangerous world. and you have to keep in mind that the u.s. is the pre-eminent military power in the world, bar none there are threats out there like china emerging and like russia who have not acquitted themself as well as we thought but the at end of the day the u.s. military has the number one force in the

entire world and that is why i think people could sleep good at night. >> and you'll get a call if something happened in ukraine or poland you'll get a call about that raytheon needs to monitor what -- probably what you're involved in all of this. you have high level security what is your security clearance, greg it must as be as high as it gets. >> i have about 238 separate clearances for the accounts. but the fact is we do work with the government to provide realtime intelligence for the battlefield in ukraine i'll leave it at that. and what has been amazing to me is the ability of the u.s. military to provide ukrainians with realtime information to deal with the realtime threats so we see, we could see russian tank, a russian apc, we could see a russian missile get launched and that information gets fed to the ukrainians and they could actually act on it almost immediately which is something that i think the russians never contemplated.

>> the government is an important client governments around the world are important clients. so there is procurement, there is -- as things deteriorate in terms of security, does that make business better for you do we ever say we're not going to need -- you hear that from certain political circles that we either need to be smarter or we need to do much less in terms of appropriations for defense. that is short sighted, isn't it. >> it would be polianish to say there is no threats against the homeland and i think providing a very strong deterrent is what the defense industry is all about. we want to have the best technology and the best snystems and best trained people to make sure people don't do stupid things when mr. putin did in this year, was stupid he didn't understand how the u.s. and nato would stand up to the russians and provide which i

consider to be incredible levels of support so having a strong defense is essential. the world will not get safer tomorrow we don't need defense because everybody gets along the fact is that is just not the way the world worked. >> and you and doug mcmillion, it seems like you do completely different things in terms of tox policy, in terms of the economy and in this country. is it similar, do you have similar concerns that -- if we go into a recession, will it effect raytheon in the same way it will effect walmart. >> no. doug's business is much more consumer oriented. we're a b 2 b business 45% is commercial aerospace. but you have scott kirby on earlier. the demand in commercial aero is incredible we're back to 2019 levels with china still in the tank. by the end of next year, i expect we're be back to where we

were at 2019 levels. pricing is good. airlines will be making money. so if a recession minor as jamie said, probably not much of an impact a downturn in travel will have an impact, maybe six to 12 months later for us. on the defense side we have is about $65 billion backlog growing every day. that is not going to be impacted by the -- by the economy in the near term. i think more important for us, in the defense industry and across american industry, is research. >> r&d do you want to go out there and scream that. if there was one thing that you would yell from the rooftops it would be r&d. >> it is about innovation and competing against chinese interests. we spend $10 billion a year ott raytheon we have 66,000 engineers working on innovation every single day doing a phenomenal job i get a tax deduction this year.

20% of every dollar i spend. if i do that work in china, i get a tax deduction of $2 for every dollar that i spent. this is again, something this is included in the 2017 jobs act that was thought that would never go into effect, unfortunately haven't been able to make much progress. it is called section 174, it is r&d am ortization that cost me on my $10 billion of r&d about $2 billion of cash this year. that is cash that i won't be able to use to invest in property, equipment, and people. >> and i would hope innovation and everything else. how is the patriot missiles? they're working pretty good, still? >> so we've got 18 countries around the world that have patriot batteries deployed and since you're interest, i was in poland a few months ago visiting our factory there and as we flew

in, the 82nd airborne was deployed there it is right on the border with ukraine and they have a patriot missile battery there defending poland and it gives our people comfort knowing that the u.s. is there to defend them we also put this system into ukraine about a month ago now, every single shot that they've taken with national advance air missile defense system it is shorter range than patriot but it is what ukraine needs to defend kyiv. so i think again that is been a very, very pleasant surprise at how effective it could be. >> would you violate of your 280 clearances if you told me about our offensive capabilities to match some of the stuff that we hear coming out of russia and china? have we caught up? were we behind >> so there is one area that we are behind the chinese and perhaps on par with the russians and that is hyper sonic missiles we recently won a program award for the hawk which is an air

breathing hyper sonic air to ground missile that will -- >> it doesn't need to be fed in so it is -- that is a big advantage. >> it is launchedoff of an aircraft it has a scramjet engine and it accelerated to mach 5 and could travel quite a difference. but the problem is the chinese has more sophisticated hyper sonics than we do today. >> the pentagon is nervous that we've sent so much of our weaponry to ukraine that we're behind in getting that to taiwan and other places that is good for your business but thinking about this strategically. >> so as we think about all of the weapons delivered to ukraine, have come out of i would say current inventory. we're not building any of those or replenishing any of those today, although we are working on it. you need to probably talk to general millie he's mcing that decision every

day, where the weapons go in coordination with nato the fact is we're drawing dunn weapon stocks much faster and we've gone through in the first ten months of the war, five years worth of production on javelin anti-tank missiles and 13 years worth of stinger production soi so it is going to take time. >> we have to go i'm sorry i didn't talk to you by buybacks and foreign exchange i've been scramjet and everything going to mach 5. >> thank you for having me. >> up next, we're going to be stepping away from the business round table for a moment and speaking with robin hood ceo vlad tenev they've got some news out about retirement accounts and then were darious adam check who is joining us live in d.c

stay tuned you're watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc i remember when i first started flying, and we would experience turbulence. i would watch the flight attendants. if they're not nervous, then i'm not going to be nervous. financially, i'm the flight attendant in that situation.

the relief that comes over people once they know they've got a guide to help them through, i definitely feel privileged to be in that position. ♪♪

welcome back to "squawk box. we're going to step away from the business round table for some news out of robinhood announcing a wait list for what is called robinhood retirement it is open to everybody. the product is a 1% match nor every contribution dollar with no employer necessary.

it also used, users could select roth oar traditional ira joining us now vlad tenev and we're talk about the year in crypto and the collapse of sam bankman fried. it is good to see you. >> good to see you, andrew how are you? >> let's talk about this retirement account and then get into the more thornier issues around what is going on in your space these days how big of a deal is this and how did this change the equation for robinhood given the focus on younger consumers and now we're talking about retirement. >> well, andrew, the world is changing around us you know, we've talked a lot about inflation and rising interest rates but one of the other things that has been changing is the nature of work. you've seen an increasing number of people sort of avoiding the one employer traditional model

and doing freelance work, doing gig economy work, having multiple sources of income and what this product, we're excited to offer a retirement account that specifically is geared towards the needs of these customers. so as you mentioned, earlier it is the first and only ira that offers a match and with the nature of work changing, the traditional kind of employer as a safety net model is evaporating a little bit, too. and we're happy for robinhood to step in and help our customers retire and even though there might be less interest in investing than there was in 2020 and 2021, interest among retirement, particularly among gen z and younger people is really high. and you have each successive generation of consumers interested in retirement at an

earlier stage. >> right so how much -- >> that is something that we're -- >> how much do you see this as something for your current consumer set and how much of is this about attracting a new consumer base? >> i think it is a little bit of both certainly when we talk to our current consumers, we have a lot of them that are interested in retirement it is one of the most frequent asks that we get from our broke rio de -- brokerage customers. some have accounts elsewhere and some don't know exactly how so start. and it can be complicated. there is a lot of different account types, you have to decide between a roth and a tradition aal. and you have understand the contributions and the tax implications of these decisions. and we've always prided ourselves on not just offering great economics with the match, but making it really simple for people so that they could understand and move past the

jargon and get to their goal which is to build up a nest egg. >> right we have to talk about the sam bankman-fried. taking a stake in your company there was speculation that he want fod maybe even buy the entire business. what did you think when you heard about the bankruptcy and all of the other now speculation or worse around what is happened here >> yeah. um, well, it is -- i think an unfortunate outcome for cl customers who have their money locked up in ftx and ftx and my t takeaway is there is a little bit of, you know, a pattern that i'm starting to see with these foreign companies that create u.s. subsidiaries and these u.s.

subsidiaries are relatively small but it gives them access to the u.s. market and you know, robinhood operates a little bit different by where we're a u.s. parent company. we have regulated businesses here but i think companies have been using kind of these foreign home bases whether they be in the caribbean, in the case of ftx, or you've got companies in china and they haven't been sort of scrutinized to the same degree and i think that is something that regulators should take a look at and make sure that, the scrutiny is the same if not higher if you're off shore and operating a business that has subsidiaries that serve american customers. >> right how do you think, though, about the trading of various hokens and coins even on your own platform, some of which i think the -- one of the less ons of

this experience, is i don't people appreciate the true value. there is a question to whether there is any value but to the respect of any value, whether it is being artificially inflate and the low flow is effectively being used to push up the quote/unquote market cap. we saw what happened with alameda. and that is real questions that people have today. >> yeah. and i've talked a little bit about kind of robinhood values and how we prioritize customer safe if you look at our crypto offering, we've been selective we offer i believe 19 right now. as opposed to some of these off shore companies and other players that are offering hundreds of right so we've been very selective about what we offer to customers. we want to make sure they have access to high quality assets. we understand crypto is here to

stay this is -- this is one player that have an unfortunate failure but it wasn't really a failure to crypto. >> and just to put a fine point on it. you do offer the ftt token on your platform. >> we don't offer the ftt token on our platform. we have data that allows customers to track its price, but we don't offer it for trading, no. >> hey, vlad how weird is it that your company, the stake that they had in your company, that ftx had in your company, a 7.6% stake in your company, that is most val valuable asset that everybody is fighting over in the bankruptcy, not just of ftx but also when it comes down to blockfy. they're trying to get ahold of that too what does that mean to you does it effect that that amount

of your shares will be locked up in bankruptcy court? >> well, i mean, it is one of the -- there is obviously pluses and minuses of being a public company. anyone could buy our stock on the open market and so we have a lot of shareholders, i guess i'm not surprised that it is one of the more valuable assets that they have on their balance sheet. because it is public company stock. but, yeah, other than that, we don't have a lot of information that you guys don't have, right, or just watching this unfold and like you said, it is going to be locked up in bankruptcy proceedings most likely for some time and so we're just seeing how that plays out >> and then when you think about crypto more broadly, vlad, how big an element of that do you

think your business will ultimately be and how do you think that what has happened here may or may not change that dynamic? when you sit with your team and talk about sort of crypto and a component part of your business, has that conversation changed in the past three weeks >> i think we still see opportunities with crypto. i think in particular customers have been looking for regulated safer options and particularly customers in the u.s there is an interest, a growing interest in self-custody and as you probably know we have been working on a self-custody wallet that gives customers control over their keys an their coins so i think there is opportunity there. and robinhood i think could lean into what we've sort of established as being -- as having a reputation for safety and for being selective about what we offer and how we offer

it but there is opportunities in more traditional financial services as well i mean, this retirement launch kind of being a great example of that i think there is, you know, there is opportunities for us in this environment to really lean into helping customers think for the long-term and how to build up their retirement savings. >> right >> and that is a more traditional product. the ira and roths will be offering etfs and listed equities to start. so the nature of our business is is that we're going to help people invest and save for retirement, save for the long-term. and we see a lot of opportunities for that in the current environment and crypto notwithstanding. >> vlad, we want to thank you for joining us this morning. with this news and also for taking our questions about what is happened here with ftx. we look forward to see you in

person >> thank you, guys cheers >> let's get down to the new york stock exchange. jim cramer joins us now. to kind of a seasonally strong time, jim. but we have got the -- how often we hear from the fed that they say, we're going definitely still going higher that is the lead story, mike wilson seems like he thinksest rally is petering out a little what is your feeling on just the overall indexes? >> look, these guys exhaust me, these negative people. look and by the way, jamie dimon other than the military, i thought he was incredibly negative and kenny negative. i don't know anyone that is really positive. and yet at statame time, you haa down day like yesterday and people will come back and take a hard look at things because there is not a lot of stock issuance and there is not a lot of great investment and everybody decided there is

going to be a recession. i don't see the recession coming i think the fed is being deliberate other than greg hayes, because of the huge number that wee spend in ukraine, he has a good story to tell. but i'm exhausted by the negativity i just -- wow. i come in and i'm looking for bargains and i feel like dent waist waste your time and just go buy the two-year and i think people will listen, though. >> when you're in' period where you get to choose recession or hyper inflation, it just i guess it is just up. but maybe that tells you it is not as bad as it makes us feel. >> that is what i think. >> yeah. >> look, i mean we're all going to have -- >> yeah. >> so, yes, we had a bottom that -- we have had a very short recession and printed a lot of money and now paying the price these people are all so

negative they should resign give me someone that is more positive give me a churchill or someone that wants to lose thank you. >> we'll see new a couple minutes for some positive. minutes for some positive. "squawk box" will be

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big guest to talk about the economy. joining us is darius adamczyk, the chairman and ceo of honeywell. good to see you here i know that we've talked to everybody all morning about what they see on the economy. we have to get your take on that before we get your take on other things how are things headed? how are you feeling about it >> first of all, great to be here good to see you all in person. always nice. i think we need to unpack this a little bit i think the sentiment index is down and people are overfunctioning. i watch the following metrics. 66% of the u.s. economy is based on the consumer. t then you look at the saving rates. they were double digit in 2020 about a year ago they were 7.2%. right now they're 2.6% you see them coming down another important metric is what

are the savings cuts how much people have saved up through the pandemic for a reference point in 2021 they were about 74, $75,000, they're about 62 now if you look at 2019, it was about 42,000 which means the consumer is still relatively healthy. they save on how they spend their money. it's gone from products to now services airlines, hotels are doing extraordinarily well you combine that with work from home and there's a lot of three day weekends when people go to other places and there's a lot of demand for experiences rather than products. i'm not overly pessimistic on 2023 i think the economy will be tougher, but not a disaster. >> you see ceos preparing for that

you're looking at ways to cut cost and layoffs they may become a self-fulfilling prophecy >> at honeywell we see the whole spectrum the supply chain challenges are real, they're getting better, but they're still there. we look at distribution and it's been a tougher market. then we have everything in between. some of our segments, we're preparing for a storm. other segments are growing very quickly and we're trying to bring on as many people as we can. >> you've been focusing on sustainability it seems hard to get your head around the idea of jets and sustainability and how that works. what kind of progress are you

seeing >> we've developed green jet fuel technology two decades ago. we were one of the first trans-atlantic flights on green jet fuel it's a technology that existed for a long time. nobody really cared. it's only recently that people started to care. i believe that latin america is going to be one of the hubs for green fuels, particularly green jet fuel just because of the biology and the availability of bio stocks >> per gallon, per cost, how much now >> it's multiples. it's going to be a lot more. it's a lot more depending on the country, it's different. there will have to be a gradual transition >> what can we get it down to? >> it all depends how much we

support the feedstock. >> can you get to five to one? >> you have to have more variety in terms of what you can use we introduced ethanol to jet technology which increase it is possibilities for what you use in feedstock if it's just fat, sure, there's a limitation. >> think of global commerce and how dependent it is on what we do up in the air when is this -- when could it possibly not be prohibitive costly and take a 10% share in what we do right now what year? 2050. >> i'm not sure i can get you an exact year, joe. we need to -- >> not 2026? >> it's a circular discussion which is what's the regulatory environment, how much support, what's the cost of carbon credits. you can move that year up or down based upon what that looks

like >> 2100 to 2,200 >> i think it's going to be gradual. i don't think there's any instant gratification that all of a sudden in 2025 we'll be using it for aviation. we have to remember a lot of us ceos, we made these commitments around carbon emissions and so on maybe you can postpone dealing with that, but only for so long. a lot of those goals are 2040, 2050 we're seeing a lot of interest >> it's still not in the water and both sides have to prove credibility. >> sure. for us we made a midterm goal. we said by 2025 we have to decrease by 10%. it's fun to talk about 2040 and 2050, but you need nearer term

goal. >> how many of those pledges do you think you start to say, you know what, we have to shift here i know it's a credibility issue to some degree. >> that's when the lights start going out and put are putting on sw sweaters in europe and the reality sets in. >> we did something called a sustainability index and we surveyed a lot of executives throughout the world sustainability in the u.s. is now ahead of meeting financial commitment commitments. it has people's attention, but, you know, what's going to happen we're seeing a lot of interest on the part of customers to drive these solutions. >> how much of your new customer interest is coming from that, from sustainability? >> i can't go see a customer without a discussion on

sustainability, whether it's buildings, energy shift, green fuels, that's the topic of every conversation. >> darius adamczyk, thank you for being with us. >> that does it for us today we hope to see you back tomorrow right now it's time for "squawk on the street. take care. what a great show. welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm carl quintanilla with jim faber and jim cramer we're coming off the worst session in almost a month. a lot of commentary from business round table we'll get to all of it oil is back to 57. our road map begins with fading ceo optimism, eroding coum