plus, southwest shares rallying 25% quarter to date. the company is reinstating its dividend and forecasting strong travel demand. later this hour, we're going to ask the ceo if rising labor cc costs could put a lid on growth. >> hi, everybody stocks waivering this afternoon. now we're down eight money's been moving into defensive areas. all hitting 52-week high a 5% pop for campbell's today. they're coming off strong quarterly earnings also, new financial guidance from coinbase. they're seeing 2022 revenues down 50% from last year. a lot of that priced in. trading around $41 a share >> there's been a lot of action

in the treasury market look at the move in rates. one week ago, fed chair powell gave a speech the market interpreted as dovish. stocked soared the ten-year is now at 3.4%. so what does this mean for the stock market let's bring in doug butler se senior director with rockland trust. i'm told you're bullish, but it really depends on the fed, is that right >> yeah, i think we've all seen that the fed really, the dovishness even started earlier as rates dropped through the four level we anticipate if the fed comes into the governor's, expect the fed funds rate to be at north of five for 2023. we think that's going to put a little bit of pressure on the markets and certainly if it hits the 5.25 level, we think that is probably another down 4%

>> when you say a little pressure on the markets, what do you mean sort of nightmare scenario or -- >> we're talking not dramatically down from last week's level anyway. not from here. sorry. >> yeah. so what do you buy you're looking at the fed, weary of a swing looking at a couple of different stocks which ones do you have in mind >> one stock we love in the energy space is eog. ooechbl if there's a recession, they're a fantastic play they've been distributing special dividends. they're a fantastic company and probably the best run and

cultured company in the space. we think they can aptly grow to 150 bucks within the next year >> you also like jpmorgan and meta a couple of names that are more controversial. before diving into that specifically, i'm curious if the next move from the fed chair is actually to walk back the dovishness that the markets were in last week, in other words to get more hawkish again, to what extent could that really spoil the landscape here >> i think that the walking, i don't think they're going to walk it back hard is what i would say. they might be a little less optimistic, but really what you're looking for is that to 23 where the median ends up and where the governors think they're going to be for the full y year if that average is below 8%, that will be great news.

i think the markets are starting to price that in you see the ten-year rolling over to 3.5. jpm, from the ceiling down, have a cautious outlook, but they've been successful at cutting costs, maintaining their margins. m meta, if they could get out of their own way for a few weeks, the stock has room to run. remember microsoft in the 2000s when they kept having problems in europe and everywhere >> i want to ask you about that

because there's a big if if they can stop making mistakes you're betting on meta you think they're in a good position here. is that a bet just on the sort of ego of one man, mark zuckerberg he said he got it wrong when it came to the metaverse. put too much money in, hired too many people. sort of bet the farm now is trying to reel it in and get some humility here do you think seqhe now gets it d is going to be able to refocus this company >> he's done a lot of great things he's gotten this one wrong and he like and he bet too much of it on this but the company still, i think outward premise of the company is not to be aligned with mark or feel like there's one man running the show there's the share structure we

s signed up for. that's what we have and do we want to stay in. yet we knew it going in and we believe their positioning is fantastic. and we believe that mark zuckerberg is not an irrational individual i mean, there are other ceos who i wouldn't entrust this much runway, but i believe zuckerberg will get it turned around and look, i think we're going to solve the apple problem. google and facebook are going to solve the apple problem. >> thank you so much for that. not an irrational individual that's an enormous endorsement for a ceo these days >> all right bye bye. >> there is no alternative that's been the investing mantra for u.s. stocks for some time, but european stocks have been rallying the european benchmark euro stocks 50 index is up 18% this quarter, on pace for its best quarterly performance since 2009 that far outpaces the s&p, which is up about 9% here to discuss whether europe is investable again is jeremy

schwartz why the sudden run up here is it about a weak dollar? . >> i'm calling in from london so it's been an appropriate segment. >> good to have a philly boy on the show i think some of the sentiment was so bombed out. when things look really terrible, if you could just get a slight improvement from terrible to just bad, you can get, have a big rally. the dollar does seem to have turned the euro, you're showing a chart there. the strength in the euro we think the fed is going to pivot harder than they're saying now. you can't trust what they're saying you've got to watch what they're going to do in the coming six months and we think they're going to start cutting rates sooner than the market expects the momentum on the dollar has

turned we have dynamic currency signals that went long for the first time in at least 12, 18 months so that, those things are turning. momentum's turning valuations are really more than 50% off the forecasts are ready and people are starting to say the s&p has downgraded their estimates. all those things are supported for that rebound >> jeremy, let me ask you about this all the stuff you just mentioned, the big problems in europe, right? you have a war shock you had an energy shock. you had a russia sanctions shock. all the problems europe faced at the beginning of this year it's

still facing now how can you be bullish on europe when those core problems are still there? >> it gets to what's factored in the price. people know that those are current issues so it's not a surprise people are started to believe this war will last forever and that may not be the case we have to see how that goes there's no positivity on that today. we say what could inflect going forward. there could be a surprise in that it's going to take time, obviously, but all this stuff has factored in the price. then you say it really, you know, we often say growth leads to sub par returns bullish expectation and at eight times earnings, this stuff is factoring in a lot of negative views where the s&p still has a rich multiple. >> so, jeremy, curious if you

look at individual stock performance because you make an argument for okay, it's luxury names. these are all about fundamentals what i hear you saying is really about a weak dollar, more dovish fed here is there a fundamental case company by company that would argue for europe's outcontinued performance? >> first, the currency itself helps make europe more competitive. it's been a weak currency so far. the streets are bustling trying trying to get to restaurants i think it makes the global companies more competitive i think the sentiment is positive for u.s. investors buying europe stocks there's been negative outflows all year some of that has changed in the last 30 days you've seen some inflows return.

i think it's a mat eter of cheap stocks, cheap currencies things turning just more positively is why we like something like the international high dividend. it's a broad, diversified exposure not betting on any one company there are 500 stocks in that basket spreading the risk around to the broader national market. >> apropos that you're in london for this discussion. thanks so much, jeremy >> and how much fun to be in london when enginland is doing well in a world cup. no wonder it's hard to get a seat in a restaurant and coming up, a tech reset. layoffs may not be done yet. they're expected to accelerate into year end. it's creating a new reality for investors to navigate. plus, halliburton, enphase and lithium all 2023 top picks, but some might pose more risks than other. that trade in today's

three-stock lunch. shares of mastercard and lowe's trading in opposite directions mastercard by $9 billion lowe's by 15 billion "perun" lle gh backchwi brit

welcome back the labor market has been one of the bright spots for the economy in year, but there's one place where the skies have definitely turned cloudy and that's in tech according to jeffrey's, over 210,000 tech workers have lost their jobs this year amid

mounting fears of a recession. nearly all the big players have been impacted with cuts from meta, amazon, microsoft, and others our next guest says these reductions are signs the industry is facing a new reality and there could be more cuts on the way. let's bring in brent phil from jeffrey's. great to see you again perversely, does this make you positive on any of these stocks because it means they're cutting back expenses quite dramatically >> i think it's the early signs of time to get positive. clearly, it's been a really tough '22. it's going to be a rough first half of 2023 we think there are more job cuts underway we published this report last night. just this morning, both suora and ies had over 10% layoffs so we're going to see more. it's going to continue to weave through the public and private market probably more so even in the private market in the beginning of next year so i don't think the pain is over but i do think the good news is

this companies that were running high growth and no lack of profitability are now switching and you're seeing investors applaud that you look at mongo db i think we're in the early stages of this, but i still think we have more pain to go. first half of the year is going to be a difficult backdrop with demand >> how much of this though is correcting excesses of the past two years? hewlett-packard said they hired 10,000 people over the previous year, which is like hundreds of people every day did companies overexpand >> 100%, yes we're dealing with the tech access. the tech industry is never in front of a puck and if you know ice skating, you know what i mean you've got to go where the puck is going and they're always behind so i think we're now playing catch up the pandemic, every tech company

got on their show, told all the analysts, hey, like, this is the new reality. it's not a pull forward and that all ended up not being true. so i think all these companies are seeing a pullback in demand and it doesn't matter if you're in cybersecurity, applications, infrastructure, you're seeing the pullback and so there's a tremendous amount of excess and we've looked at if you take google, their head count was up over 25% or close to 25% in the last quarter. they're going to grow high single digit next year per wall street estimates so you can't have these head count numbers growing faster than revenue so i think ultimately, there's a tremendous amount of excess. you look at amazon's head count. you look across the board. there's not one vendor to single out. they all were guilty we're going to see at a minimum, a freeze, and probably continuing to see additional

layoffs as we go into the '23. that will restore the hellalth tech, the margin structures. it's not longer just about growth it's about responsible growth and profitability and the only way you get there, the only thing you can control is the bottom line. >> let me ask you about what comes next we're painting this industry with a broad brush, but each story is so different. you look at amazon a story about package deliveries during the pandemic. facebook is a story about an aging user base. not adapting to new technologies fast enough. twitter, it's own bizarre surreal universe each has its own reason for the predicament it's in. how do you see them coming out of this series of layoffs? are they going to come out in a different order or pace? >> good point. there's tons of micro climates so we can't take a broad brush, but i think we can take a brush

on the overexuberance of tech in the past two years there's no disputing that. what i think is going to happen coming out of this is they are going to be stronger companies and one said this, i think we're going to come out and realize we didn't need as many people doing this job we can be more efficient many have talked about salesforce.com do you need as many sales people to execute on the revenue goal and in many of these companies, you can have 10% less capacity and still deliver on the same revenue number and that shows you how much excess there was. i mean, it's, everyone in silicon valley knows this, that basically you know, 20% of the developers do 80% of the work. so you know, do you really need -- >> just figuring out which 20% are doing it that's the challenge >> yeah. >> brent, in all seriousness,

what's your favorite stock >> into next year, i like intuit really great story in terms of focus on a buyback and post this year has had ten plus years of double digit or single digit returns. 80% of those years have been double digit so really consistent story would be one name we focus on it >> all right, intuit thanks very much >> your heart just breaks for these workers who are bracing for these layoffs. they know it's coming. the analysts know. >> of course not to mention they're kind of a lagging place, always behind the puck but are they ahead of where the puck is coming for the rest of us >> that means, in this case, 50% of the anchors do 100% of the work and reinstating its dividend

after nearly three years as travel finally rebounds, but the stock is moving lower. the ceo is going to join us live and carvana crashing shares down 35% today as nkptonrns grow details when "power lunch" returns. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers and stores on america's most reliable 5g network. that sounds just paw-fect. terrier-iffic i labra-dore you round of a-paws at&t 5g is fast, reliable and secure for your business.

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look at shares of carvana continuing to collapse below $4 a share this amid growing worries the company is headed for bankruptcy wedbush downgrading the stock to just a dollar today. a new report today suggests their largest creditors have s signed a pact to cooperate with negotiations and prevent in fighting with competitors. the stock is down 98% this year. august 2021, it was trading at $374 a share >> incredible. 98%. a total wipeout. you wonder about these efforts to protect creditors from infighting isn't that impossible after a wipeout of that scale? >> what's interesting about this, it was a real business i saw plenty of people in the neighborhood around town, you'd see the trucks pull up

it wasn't the famous stop, the business plan without a reality from the late 2000s. >> was this the one with the automobile vending machines. i wonder what happens to those those are kind of cool my 11-year-old son loves those >> it was seen as disruptive technology that would emerge from the pandemic and reshape the way auto sales happen and to see this is pretty shocking. >> live and learn. to kate rooney now for the cnbc news update. >> here's what's happening at this hour. representatives of former president trump have reportedly found more items marked classified and returned them to the fbi. "the washington post" reports at least two items were found in a storage unit used by trump it is not immediately clear what was in those items peru's congress has voted to remove the country's president the lawmakers rejected the president's order to dissolve the legislature. the country's military and police are warning castillo

against violating the constitution a handful of survivors of the attack on pearl harbor took first in the 81st anniversary of the event. there were fewer than in previous years until now, a dozen or more came from around the country for the remembrance day. >> thank you for that. ahead on "power lunch," esgs versus the gop republicans releasing a game plan for taking on big asset firms like blackrock, vanguard and state street over their commitment to esg. details on their plan, next. >> and plus regardless of your stance on esg, energy, both alternative and traditional, is reodl g bullish calls on wal stet tay we'll trade them in three-stock lunch.

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and 90 minutes left in the trading day, we want to get you caught up on the markets, stocks, bonds, commodities and the gop's roadmap to fight esg let's start with bob pisani at the nyse >> great to see you. we are flat on the day, but a lot of movement. we've been listening on the goldman sachs conference a lot of companies reporting

outlook for 2023 big mover, m and t bank. they reported net interest income would be lower than expected, suggesting lower profitability. that stock is essentially at a low for the year fifth third also reported today. generally i would describe the commentary as cautious, but not pessimistic. take a look at the home builders toll brother had earnings out. orders down 60%. quite a move to the downside first quarter seems to be starting slowly, but they're buying back a lot of stock and investors seem to be trying to position themselves for a better second half of 2023. those stocks are moving today. remember, homebuilders were the first group to turn down early in january they've turned around since bottoming in october finally on game stop, we are waiting for earnings to come out. the stock has really collapsed in the last three days probably down about 20% last

three days there have been reports of layoffs this week there. that may help the company become profitable eventually. it's deeply unprofitable right now. but that's still a long way off here we are at the lowest levels since may on game stop so where are we, the markets sentiment's poor because of recession concerns there have been positive data points manheim used car index, lowest since august of 2021 that means inflation is maybe coming down a little bit unit costs lower that's another positive sign for inflation. productivity was higher than expected that's positive for stocks and finally, china removing a lot of covid testing and quarantine rules. that's been a big drag on commodity markets all year positive data points and yields have come down when those productivity numbers came out. >> now to the bond market where the three-month ten-year yield curve is on pace to close at a

fresh, 22-year inversion rick >> yeah, pretty much every maturity you look at has an interesting story today. if you look at two-year note yields since may, excuse me, since september, eamon, they're getting close to rolling over. if you look at intraday of ten and this is interesting. look at the way yields started to drop right around 9:00 eastern. now, if we move ahead and look at a two-day chart, we can clearly see, we saw a big drop when we traded under 3.5%, but bob pisani just talked about better than expected productivity and unit labor costs were lower he's right, but yields should have gone higher t they dropped because traders were expecting it to be better and they bought it quick and reversed their positions they were right on the trade, but wrong on how it turned out if you look at what's going on

with a ten since mid september nearly three months. bund yields are joining them almost exactly the same pattern. if you look at what you talked about at the beginning, three months to tens approaching minus 87 basis points. we haven't been anywhere near there since early january. like the first few days of 2001. and bank of canada raised for the sixth time, but they did hint that a pause may be in order and i think that central banks are most likely going to move in much more unison so some of these stories have to start meshing together better. >> get your stories straight, everybody. oil is closing for the day cruise prices falling 3% mostly on economic concerns that off set government data showing supplies fell by more than 5 million barrels last week. crude prices are down about 10% and going negative for the year and how's this for a stat?

the national average for gas across the country is just about the same as it was one year ago. that's before russia invaded the ukraine. think about that now over to washington where republicans have released a game plan for taking on wall street's commitment to esg. ylan mui has the details of that strategy >> that's right. republicans are calling the big three asset managers the new emperors because of the influence they yield over big co corporations staff argue that blackrock, state street and vanguard aren't passive because they're trying to shape social policies it calls for more disclosures, voting authority and more investigations by congress it states each of these firms proudly uses the voting power gained from their investors' money to advance liberal social goals. we've reached out to each of the three large asset managers for

comment. bl blackrock told it respectfully disagrees. it said con tclusions are builto flawed premises and risk every day investors to help them retire with dignity. vanguard said it wants to work with congress and said at least management decisions to companies and policy decisions to lawmakers republicans are framing these as a new form of corporate accountability so it's likely to dbecome one o the manjor themes in the new congress >> that's fascinating. you've heard rumblings about this dur the year. they have the power to put that into actual action, but how likely is any of this to become law? we learned last night there's going to be a 51-seat majority >> eamon, you know how washington works, right. this is unlikely going to become law over the next two years, but

the reason why this is really important is because it's a republican attempt to start turning some of their rhetoric into reality what can congress really do to push back on these proposals you put out an idea, vet it amongst your caucus. you galvanize public debate and see what sticks so if and when republicans do end up controlling maybe both chambers of congress as well as the white house, they have a suite of policy proposals ready to go i expect this is just the beginning of this effort and you're going to hear a lot more to come. >> thanks. they're teeing it up for next time coming up, all energy. we've got choices no matter your taste. oil, sarol, or lithium energy. that's coming up next.

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it's time for our three-stock lunch and today's menu is all energy we're sipping on three bold

calls starting with halliburton, which jpm says they're bullish on u.s. shale and oil markets. wells fargo naming enphase a top pick in clean energy they call its growth recession proof. and piedmont lithium cowen calling it a best idea here to help us trade all three is lee munson. lee, welcome, sir. let's kick it off with halliburton. you a buyer? >> yeah, i would be a buyer and i'll tell you why. first thing is halliburton all year has been going along with xle index. so you have to think if i'm going to buy an individual stock, what is going to make that out of form and compensate me versus just buying an etf in the energy sector. i think what jpmorgan was alerting us to is that half their earnings is really about opec and stuff outside the u.s. shale. and i think that if you're

looking forward, where are we going to have more cap ex? i think opec's going to have to do it. they can't even get their quotas down they're going to have to spend, because they're been underspending for years and years and years. do we think that's going to be the same amount of spending for shale? jpm doesn't think that i'd have to agree with that. if you think cap exspending is going to happen, think covid lockdowns in china are going to stop a soft landing for energy? how is a good individual stock going to jack up your energy >> the next one, enphase do you like this idea this is recession proof? is anything recession proof? >> i love when analysts tell me. it's like a little -- warm mill milk and cookies can't avoid the macro. i have an enphase inverter

it's fine. but you're betting that all these homeowners are still going to be doing solar. a lot of that stuff is financed. rates are going to be up, but i get what they mean here's the thing with enphase you're buying it because supposedly, they're going to double their kacapacity over th next 12 months they're going to have more stuff to sell more easily, but the stock is trading at a 70 times next year's earnings and i think that's rich. and plus, when you look at wells, the price target's only 10% where it is now. that's not a lot of upside i'd rather pick the stock 10, 20% lower and if you own this thing, take a little profits from this. just do a little profit taking nothing wrong with paying tax or reading the cash register. it's done well >> nothing wrong with paying tax. how about the final name here. piedmont lithium >> i actually like piedmont.

if you're going to speculate an individual stock versus just you know, sleep at night in index fund, this has all the things, right? they don't make money now. but they're going to make money soon like in the third quarter of next year. they've got to get these permits from the carolinas you've got to have electric vehicles not hit the macro head winds. again, it's all about not avoiding the macro but if you want to get in early on lithium, lithium that's sourced here in the united states, there's some big risks to this company which i just said, but if all things work out and you start having those prices going up, i think this could be a big winner but remember, the other three stocks we talked about today, this is speculative and think about it the call suggests that 90% upside from here so if you're looking for a little bit of spice in your portfolio, i would go for this one.

>> a little bit of spice in our drink. feeling a bit woozy, but thank you for a that coming up, is the clock ticking for tiktok here in the u.s.? negotiations between tiktok and the u.s. government being delayed now, but could this ultimately lead to a ban of the app? we'll discuss that one next.

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just reinstated a dividend the stock is up about 22% this quarter as travel demand rebounds and they're hosting their investor day at the new york stock exchange. robert jordan joins phil lebeau for an exclusive interview phil, take it away >> thank you for joining us. kelly set that up well reinstate your dividend give an optimistic forecast through the fourth quarter in terms of revenue growth bullish on next year yet your stock is down almost 4% today. where's is the disconnect between the bullishness you're presenting and what we're seeing from investors when it comes to not just southwest but airline stocks in general right now? >> hi, phil. first, great to be with you. wish we were together in-person. i think you're in chicago. good to see you. i'm not going to answer for the market in the really short term like a day i'm proud we are the first airline to reinstate our dividend and not only that reinstate it in full and also

got terrific momentum in the fourth quarter our fourth quarter revenue trends are actually above the third and going to take that momentum into 2023 and we've presented a really good 2023 plan today that actually has the opportunity to return to net income levels that were pre-pandemic-like. so i'm really proud of our team and our people and what we are able to talk about at our investor day. >> i saw your presentation, and i hear your optimism, but the question remains for a lot of people, what happens if we see recession? heard from competitors and executives at those airlines saying seeing no slowdown in demand from your perspective, if we see even a mild recession in this country, what does that potentially do to your outlook in 2023? >> step one, plan appropriately. we plan in terms of gdp. demand looking forward, looking to december and january and february looks really strong

demand trends have not changed very strong. got a strong fuel edge 50% for 2023 certainly very helpful, and then there's a chance that given constraints in the industry, primarily pilot hiring we're not having trouble hiring pirates at southwest airlines but i think pilot hiring might be a constrain and could strain the capacity step one plan appropriately weekend "and we are planning fo tepid growth in '23. >> in terms for the economy overall? >> yes planning for tepid gdp and most of our capacity next year, roughly 15% growth, is going to go into markets that we were already in pre-pandemic we are just restoring the 2019 network, which means that these are flights that customers were already taking we're just adding them back. that means that capacity comes on at much lower levels of risk, and we're looking forward to having our network fully

restored to pre-pandemic levels here at the end of 2023. >> bob, you're trimming numbers 7 7 737s particular boeing next year in part because of a lingering question out there whether or not the certification of the 737 max 7 of which you got many on order with boeing, if there's going to be a waiver instituted by congress, or if there's going to have to be an entirely new process, which brings up the question about the future of the max 7. what's your outlook in terms, do you think this could get resolved in washington by end of the year >> first, our boeing delivery plant moved around a lot here in '22, and '23 and likely into '24. a lot is that is supply train dr drawn. engine, supply issues, just like

every other company is suffering, but on the max 7, again i don't want to speak for boeing but aye comfortable they will get the extension we will get the aircraft certified. the max 8 is a terrific aircraft convinced the max 7 is also a terrific aircraft. we will get it certified, if i was guessing, here in 2023 it takes us about six months to put that aircraft into service after the certification. so there's a good chance, in my guess, we don't fly one in 2023. which just means they will push to 2024 but i think we ultimately get the max 7 certified an flying and i'm looking forward to that. >> eamon javers here at cnbc headquarters good to see you. thanks for doing that. switched to pilot hiring a second ago headlines crossing wires from your investor day saying you guys will be able to hire 2,100 pilots next year that's a huge number i fly all the time and seems

like everybody is having difficulty out there hiring pilots i'm wondering if you can tell us where those 2,100 pilots will come from? a secret pipeline the other airair lo airlines don't have? no secret pipeline but if you know a pilot, steer them towards southwest airlines there's confusion. we are constraining, classrooms are full for pilots. simulators are full for pilots actually we take three more simulators here that will go online february 1st of next year we are not having trouble hiring pilots we're getting all the pilots that we can take and train our constrain is really training capacity now, that's different than is the overall industry constrained. i think if you ask that question to maybe regional carriers as an example. the story might be different, but we are not having trouble hiring pilots at southwest airlines a lot of those are coming from regional some are coming from military.

some from corporate, as typical, but we are not having trouble hiring pilots as southwest airlines. >> bob, phil again one last quick question. what's the status of negotiations with the pilots they're requesting federal mediation. what's your sense potentially getting a deal locked in by halfway through next year? >> well, first, negotiations are always hard. i'm glad that we are in the midst of closing out several of them, like im-142 with customer service agents just got a deal a few days ago with flight instructor, tw-557 our peilots and tw are large contracts open they're in mediation i'm very encouraged, because we've got a really good mediator that knows southwest airlines, know the swafa negotiating every week working through sections and i'm optimistic we will make

a lot of progress and get this done we have too many people, always paid great we're going to pay great and we will get these contracts done. >> bob jordan. ceo of southwest airlines. thank you, bob, for joining us today from the new york stock exchange and, yes, next time we talk i'm sure it will be in-person. eamon and kelly, back to you on a day where southwest stock is down, but if you listen to their presentation, i mean, pretty bullish regarding their expectations for next year. >> yeah. huge hiring numbers as well. really jumped out. phil, thank you. thanks to bob as well. a few stories that caught our attention. national security concerns delays a u.s. tiktok national security deal according to the "wall street journal." the government's concerns include how tiktok shares information related to video regulation algorithm lawmakers concerned. republicans in the house expected to take a close look at app ties to china. wall street already looking ahead which companies benefit from a tiktok ban in the u.s a meta, for instance, bank of

america and cowen saying meta, snap and youtube could be biggest beneficiaries, eamon. >> the question what do you do examining tiktok's ties to china. we know what they are. the question, if you want and app operating in the united states which has that kind of surveillance capabilities and that kind of prop ganld ta capability for an entire population of young people i speak as parent of teenagers on tiktok nearly constantly. i participated in some tiktok videos this weekend on vacation. you wonder as the chinese aggregate does all that, what's the united states going to do? ban it or you don't. >> best way to solve, instagram reels up, not as good as tiktok sucking you into rhythm and making it addictive. if they can make that better they could cannibalize tiktok. in not they'll have to wait for an outright ban. >> absolutely. apple announcing stepping up

its security with a new encryption system to ward off hackers and better protect icloud data. it's an optional feature called advanced data protection it would block most, make most icloud data secure in the event of a massive hack and prevent apple from being able to provide data in response to law enforcement requests, and this is a huge issue, kelly the fbi has had a problem with this encryption at apple for years. they asked them not do to it apple sort of shelved the issue a long time and coming out doing the very thing fbi said they don't want to be because it will block access to a treasure-trove of information, in all kinds of cases. >> a huge problem, seems can't imagine investors, they just want us to keep using our iphone with confidence but a massive challenge for law enforcement. >> encrypt all that, fbi holding up iphones saying we can't get into this phone from this terrorist. this child molester. this other kind of bad guy, and

vicing frustration around that that's potential headline blowback for apple sure they've weighed all that. going on for years. >> not over yet. is it. >> it's not. >> a pleasure. >> great to be here in-person. >> thanks for watching "power lunch," everybody. "closing bell" starts right now. stocks struggling for direction today after an ugly start to the week as recession worries and the fed's next move remain top of mind for investors. the make or break hour for your money. welcome to "closing bell." i'm sara eisen where we stand in the market dow down about 31 points down 92 at lows. up sharp earlier s&p 500 down a third of 1% two sector remaining green right now. health care and consumer staples, both defensive. we're seeing a big bond market rally. that's helping that group.