tv Fast Money CNBC December 22, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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stocks if you look at chart, that is a highler correlated chart so if you look at bond market, you have to think, right now do you believe the fed or futures >> that is going to be the debate nextyear. absolutely victoria, appreciate the time today. thank you so much. >> absolutely, mike. merry christmas. >> you as well. and that's going to do it today for "overtime. "fast money" starts now. >> from a santa claus rally to a santa claw back, the markets falling and erasing much of yesterday's gain david pepper said he's leaning short on in red letter day, are there any places to hide from the bear plus cathie woods ark keeps sinking and the mounting stom losses for the ev maker and the billions down in the drain in the fund and will there be any crush of a hope of a green christmas for retailers. a round trip for a favorite and
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one analysts is screaming i like gold like an austin powers version. i'm frank holland in for melissa lee. this is "fast money. we have tim, dan and guy and off the loads and the new headwinds bearing down on santa after the harsh outlook this morning on "squawk box." a higher than expected read on the high read of the gdp adding to the bearish move, the dow dropping and erasing most of the 500 point rally and the s&p and the nasdaq falling more than 2% here is the market moving comments from tepper. >> leaning short on the equity markets. you know, so right now because i think the upside downside doesn't just make sense to me when i have so many people tell me so many central banks telling
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me what they're going to do. >> so, tepper echoing the mantra that this desk had been trying to hammer home all year long guy, is he just preaching to the choir? >> well, i mean we took the mantra from him in the first place. he would come on when the fed was easing free money, zero interest rates and say, listen, i'm not the smartest guy he's self-dep rick atsing and he happens to be brilliant but in this environment if you're bearish, you are fighting the fed. we came on and said mult tiple times if david is right under those circumstances, if you're bullish in this environment you're fighting the fed and he said that today. the thing that really struck me the fact that he said he's leaning short, which for him is pretty significant, is also he mentioned where trough multiples potentially could be and he said we've seen this as low as an 11
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multiple he wasn't suggesting that we get there. but he brought up what do you get for earnings and what is the right number in terms of earnings he talked about 200, 210 to so it was refreshing to hear someone of his stature to hammer the home on the back ever his stature so many times this year. >> a really bright guy i think some carolina panthers fans would disagree but when it comes to the markets, a very brilliant guy right there. he called jay powell a teddy bear and called christine lee a grizzly bear are there some places to put your money to work safe under in environment where we're expecting the rate hikes. >> we're going to have a conversation about gold. but getting back to tepper, you probably weren't born and there used to be a firm called ef
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hutton and you listen. and not only does he smile -- >> i've seen the commercials. >> but that tepper has been very tactical in its markets over the last two or three years. at point naz have been worth trading through and if you think about it, he was out there in march of '21 and guy said he's out there making points and when you think about the fed, in defense of the fed, and i know that is not easy to do sometimes, until the fed saw real inflation past the pce and 2% lines which in november of 2021 they were starting to talk about, and it is hard to believe that they didn't see it. but really relative to their mandate, i think they've been very consistent here and i think they'll be very consistent on the way out which means they may overstay their welcome. >> and so courtney, he didn't say he's going 100% cash he said he's short when it comes to eck witquities. and do you see anyplace to put your money to work today >> absolutely. yeah, and i do think there is
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something you want to look at because there are likely still things going well this year. even in the higher rate environment. and one thing that is a theme is the fact that china is continuing to reopen i'm still looking at emerging markets because, a., it is a good thing for china as you see the consumer demand come back online and that is good for the global economy but i do think the emerging market is an opportunity here moving forward. >> dan nathan, was there something in particular that we haven't hit on from the tepper comments in all fairness, both central banks said they are coming so where do you put your money at right now. >> the hard part right now is the gdp print that we saw this morning, we're talking about the back half of the year with the average gross product around 3% and the unemployment rate still below 4% at 3.7% so with all of the other inputs, industrial commodities round
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tripping it in a whole host of another things that we're worried about from an inflationary standpoint coming in, you should have a strong economy. every time you get strong data you have to start pricing in fed rate hikes for longer. and i don't mean they'll continue to raise rates. not at the pace in which they've been doing here, but again, if the final piece of puzzle is unemployment and it really hasn't budged much over the last few months, then what we saw today, and high valuation stock, is going to continue to happen until we see some sort of data that weakens we have, i guess, it sounds perverse in a way, a really strong economy in the face of all of these rate hikes. which really, when you think about some of the worst stocks today in the market, at the lows it tells you that there is purchase more to go. because the multiples on these are still way too high and if you want to push out a recession, to the back half of
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2 2023, then the first half is the thing where stocks have to start to discount it and we're not there yet. tepper used an 11 multiple we've been trying to be fair and say it never gets to a 12 multiple maybe it is below the 10-year average 15 and if you get to morgan stanley 180 in earnings last year, that puts down just below 3,000 if i'm going with the math correctly. >> we closed off the lows as we get away from the tepper comments what do you think the market was seeing that gave them more confidence that gave back into equities throughout the day? >> yeah, i figured that was going to come up at some point, that we rallied off the lows but again look at the week we're in in. holiday shorten week and you see st strange things so i guess the wouns was interesting for some people and not me.
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maybe we'll continue it tomorrow and thing that i took away from this is david tepper is galvanize and synthesised some of the things we've been saying for a while. it is one thing for an adult to say it, and it is much different than somebody like david tepper, who is the mt. rushmore of traders and he said it and the plarkt is taking notice. so we get beat up for being overly bearish, we're just trying to read the tea leaves here i said last night, and i'll say it again, we're not the job to do pom poms and add to the market. >> if you look at where we were intraday, we were down 8.3, 8.2% from the highs last week so the market had a very big move it catches its breath and if you look at the under-performance of
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the qqq or the mega cap tech, that people could hang out and find reasonable valuations, we know the stories, so since november of last year when tech is ubd performing it is making lower lows so we've seen the last six to eight weeks where tech was holding and semis were outperforming. qqq has made fresh lows to the market and this is just 30% in terms of seven or eight stocks that we know well. >> that is what it said to you courtney, i'm going to steal this idea from someone else that was on "overtime" just a few minutes ago. how times are you going to discount the market for the same bad news rate hikes are the same bad news that we've been hearing over and over again as tepper spelled out, chrilagarde said we're goit raise rates. and everyone is holdingfingers crossed that there is a pause or a pivot. >> when i do think is tough here because if you were looking just
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a little over a year ago the fed was saying we don't need to raise rates in 2022 inflation is temporary and if we listened to the fed back then we would have been dead wrong so we need to be depentdent on what the data coming out is. tomorrow we get the pc numbers and seeing where inflation is going, it could be more important than what fed speak is going to be. so, yes, we are likely at a higher rate environment. hopefully we do see rates come down but it is likely not coming down to the rates it was over the last decade so i think you need to be well positioned. >> and dab nathan, did you have some thoughts on that. >> no, i'm just texting with someone. it was just a little fun there the fed told us exactly, this goes back to the whole conversation they told us a year ago when they were going to do and no one believed them and i give them high marks other than keeping the pedal on the metal for too long, last
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year they were buying mortgage backed secures in the midst of a housing orgy and you see what were they doing then and they did do an about-face and we've seen housing and stock market commit and the problem is that the s&p is 15% off the lows. the s&p should be down 30% on the year right now but it is down a little less than 20% and that is why i think we'll continue to have these sort of counter trend rallies because right now the stock market doesn't discount the worst of what comes after the most aggressive rate hiking cycle we've seen in 40 years and whether you see a day like today and you see no bid for a whole bunch of stocks, that you think are already washed out, it is telling you that we're not there yet because the major indices have not confirmed the devastation that has gone on in hundreds of stocks in the stock market >> and we have pce tomorrow. so if there was any hope, that the fed is going to change directions, it might all end
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tomorrow so the charts is important and all of the bear sentiment around the desk and from david tepper, let's get the answers from the chart master, carter worth. what do you go >> i have my oun hunches so let's go with that. the first chart is just the s&p with no juxdgments. no lines or annotations. next iteration is the exact same chart and what we know and there is --it is incontestable than on the the way up, the s&p over the prior two years was responding and respecting that trend line and the same thing on the way down so holding here for a second, the following statements i think are also that we are in a down trend. they are a counter trend rally we have had several.
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where have they failed at the down trail line if the sequence is in fact and this current rally which has been failing now for over a week and a half, in order tor the sequence to be in tact we must make a new low so do we get back to the october 13th low and do we hold or do we undercut my hunch is that we undercut final chart, let's just faulk about the longer term a little bit. and we could spend a second or two on this. this is the entire 2009, 2022 period and what we know is we have our financial crisis low in '09 and the covid low is to the penny at the lower bound of that channel right now we're sitting to -- at the midpoint exactly and the question is do we have to get into the lower half i think so and do we have to go all the way down to the lower bound for the third time that lower bound comes into play at around 3,000, or 3,100 and
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that would be a peak to trough about at 27% and the nasdaq has done that. and i think lower is the answer and as low as prospectively the lower bound. >> carter, it is tim so i was talking about the nasdaq relative under-performance to the s&p today breaking to appreciate new relative lows. that is the leadership so you talk about where it is already led us downward but if you think about mega cap, what does today's move mean to you in terms of your view. >> exactly and if you see, apple it is so important here, it is right at the june low and by all accounts apple is likely to break. so so many stocks in the market broke below in october, their respective june lows and apple has yet to do it and i think it is a foregone conclusion that it will and that is a sentiments thing apple is the big name and there are a lot of people still holding it and believing in it
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i do think it is lower one thing to add and this is maybe a good thing to end on, we are having a down year we know this that is back-to-back down years are rare so consider this, since 19128, we've had 31 down years out of 94 so it is not as though it doesn't happen but back-to-back down years are fairly rare. so we know 73 and 74 was a b back-to-back down year and 2002 and 2002, that was three years and that was a dotcom boom and bust and the big moments, 39, 40, and 41 and then four back-to-back, 29, 30, 31 and 32 which is the depression. so what does it take to you get back-to-back down years. the depression, it took world war ii or the bear market which was an entirely different moment in terms of interest rates and inflation. we're now working on one year. i think we'll have back-to-back
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down years >> carter worth right there. we appreciate it as always appreciate the insight. let's trade this, guy. what do you think about carter's hunches. >> if you go back and listen to hem over the last year, he's been 80% right in a lot of those things and most recently fact that he thought yields would go lower and the dollar go lower and maybe it bounce in equity market and it is playing out right. he brings up apple correct live. what people -- we either don't realize or won't acknowledge, apple made an all-time high literally about a year ago today. and the stock that never goes lower is in the midst of a good down draft and i think it continues down not to cast aspersions but it is rich in this environment. >> there you go. coming up next here on "fast money," the staggering loss for tesla this month what will it take for investors
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to hit the brakes. and the national weather service called it a once a jenner generation type of evet the record cold and wind and rain of course snow set to make a mess of travel ahead of christmas. how hard of a hit could this be on the retailers that are hoping for one final sales push we'll dive into what that means for everybody out erthe in the retail world when "fast money" returns. stay with us you know, it seems like hope and trust are in short supply. [clap] now, as businesses we can blame and shame. or... [whistles] we can make a change. [clap] we can make work, work for our communities. create more equal opportunities. [clap] it's time for business to show its true worth. because it's not goodbye, world. it's hello, team earth. [clap]
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welcome back to "fast money. it is been a year of erased gains and stepper declines for cathie woods this pandemic darling down e66% this year and one of the top holdings, tesla. down 20% this week alone v very reminiscent oft dotcom. are there names worth watching in arc. >> i guess we spend a lot of time talking about this because i've never seen a property folio continued insistence that sheshe's
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investing in innovation. i look at a square and i think square or block whatever they call it now, i think that thin could drop another 50% from here if you think about it. it is covid lows, its march 2020 lows was in the low 30s. the stock has trading around 60. paypal is well below its covid lows and i think it trades at a much more responsible valuation. some of the other garbage in there, like roku, throw it on the trap of useless tech and still really long that zoom is the only one that has decent valuation but i think there is lower lows. i think people would pay any price for two years ago and now it looks like a reasonable valuation but there is some funky stuff in there too so again, it is not what it is advertised as this crazy innovation and i would say this, maybe tesla is the most innovative company in there but that thing has much lower lows in my opinion
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>> so really quick, dan, you have some strong opinions about this we're showing the arc laggards the number one is tesla. you went past the second one, automation company and software and hard to believe that is junk tech and teledoc, we know what that does. >> frank, hole on a second it is not that it is junk tech, these are publicly traded companies if you tell me it is a pc backed company, pay whatever multiple you want for it and but there are laws that exist in public markets for 200 years remember elon was telling some investor of his own stock to look at securities analysis or there is some book on it just because things went haywire over the last couple of years and investors were willing to pay whatever they thought they would pay for this and people like cathie wood are marketing it as innovation, it just doesn't make sense in public markets. so just as they overshot to the upside, they have the potential
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to way overshoot to the down side >> courtney, i want to come hoover you to we have a list of the arc innovation top holdings. do you see anything in the arc that is salvageable, after a big downturn this year >> yeah. i mean, there might be bits and pieces that you could pick some individual stocks but the arc innovation fund is the poster child for your growth tech stocks which have underperformed this year and will continue to underperform and if you look at the arc innovation fund it went from a high in february $28 billion down to about $6.5 billion recently and that is with clients adding almost a billion and a half of assets over that time frame because people are buying into the dip and i think this is something i want to continue to remind investors, we've talked about this on the show, but the story doesn't end here these will continue to be under pressure next year and if we're in the tech bubble but you did have periods of tech companies underperforming for a
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decade and that can't happen again and i think you want to be cautious of that as you go into 2023. >> certainly something to watch. probably important to note that one of the top holdings there up 1.5% they make that -- they're cancer detection company and the collo guard. but a lost other companies, high valuation and hey growth and high risk. here is what is coming up next >> announcer: a streamer spending billions to land three new letters to its alphabet. nfl. the details on the deal to bring football to youtube and what it means for the legacy bundle. plus, amc hail mary to hope to keep the holders from holding on the ceo and rally as shares come crashing towards zero. you're watching "fast money," live from the nasdaq market site in times square. we're back right after this. advisor will work with yourd
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welcome back to "fast money. youtube securing the rights to the nfl sunday ticket in a seven-year deal valleyued at $2 billion a year. latest to move to the streaming universe shares of youtube alphabet sinking 2% today with other streamers closing in the red so what does this mean for alphabet and streaming at large. tim, i'm going to toss this one ore to you. >> we know where it is going, streaming and live sports and it is happening and is it part of a pack ang or a skinnier bundle or a youtube tv or where it is attractive is in a stand alone. >> a stand alone spinoff.
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>> just a stand alone service. so to the extent that you could just sign up for that, i think it is where youtube takes on more subs and it may be worth 1.5 to 2 million subs. so far this is been loss leading and so far the streamers despite all of the potential here of live sports and over the top, we haven't seen the outcome yet i think the market performance today for this news and how google -- it underwelcomes and if you look at the valuation of stre streaming companies and their ability to monetize this sub base, everyone other than netflix is not making money on the streaming business. >> should google just spin off youtube into its own service i don't know about you but i half to the listen to the music, i watch a third of everything on youtube. i'm a big fan of skip bayless and shannon sharp.
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>> so, to my -- >> i watch their show on youtube and i've never watched it on the network. i watch it on youtube. >> yep and if you look at some of the parts on google we've done this with youtube over the years, i think there is value in spinning it out in this market at this multiple, no way and i think is still more growth here and i like what they're doing here and they're going to compete and why wouldn't they compete head on with amazon. >> under wellmed by the nfl. >> and we'll break down one analyst prediction that the precious medal will impair and many people impacted by the bomb cyclone and covering the u.s. throughout the weekend and that includes christmas. how much will it impact retailers before the big holiday? stay with us
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money. another check on the markets today. stocks ending the day in the red across the board but finishing well off the lows. the dow dropping just over a percent after spending part of the day down over 600 points s&p falling about 1.5% the nasdaq, the hardest hit falling more than 2% tesla leading today's losses alongside a trio of chip makers. we're talking lam research and nvidia dropping more than 7% and finally check out fedex, the shipper a rare green spot in the sea of red as it gears up for the final push of this holiday season and now to the potential retail nightmare before christmas. a holiday season that is already weaker than expected about to be dealt another blow thanks to wicked winter weather. a bomb cyclone effecting millions across the country and heavy snow and wind in the midwest and bone chilling cold in the northeast and kansas dealing with windchills making it feel below 40 degrees below i got some flash backs
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living in alaska, i have some flash backs. >> i love alaska beauti beautiful. and the next guest said that ceo and former hudson bay gerald storage joins us now hey, jerry. >> hi. >> so storm is coming in the last shopping days before christmas. how bad could this really be for the retailers? you're of the mind that black friday was an aberration and we're having a terrible holiday season as it is. >> so look, when retails blame the weather, they're wimpy and making excuses for fundamental problems with their business but when it hits two days before christmas there is no time to make it up so it is another blow in a difficult holiday season. when you put it into perspective, it is a long holiday season so it might make a percent of difference, 1% in sales and that might think it might pick up a percent and that might be 2% and you put up together optimistic hopes.
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black friday was not good. everyone said that i don't know where they've got it there is to retailer that i've talked to that said it was good. it is been difficult all holiday season it has been a struggle. >> in aur fairness adobe said it was good when we were expecting it to be last. >> adobe only tracks internet sales, to be up 2% for internet sales, that is basically a disaster when inflation is like, you know, 6%, 8% during the same period so i don't think it was very good or anyone's expectations were that poor and through about bricks and mortar in that same context. >> fair enough we'll lean into your expertise and i want to ask you, the snowstorm, it is obviously going to impact in store shopping but why can't that be made up by online shopping for people saying hey the weather is bad, i might as well shop online and, again, this is adobe, it is not frank holland, it is adobe, the
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average checkout was higher so couldn't that give a boost to retailers. >> there is a chance that people could say i coo get a home delivery the biggest problem, the snowstorm two days before christmas. but christmas eve day in particular is my favorite day as a retailer people come into the store and they will buy anything and so it is a chance to get rid of the stuff and high margin goods so you're losing out on that it is true some will be delivered from a store to home but a lot of retailers don't have that functionality so when you get down to it, same day delivery at this juncture in a snowstorm, don't think anyone will counts that it is not a massive hit just because of the weather, it has been a hit all season long and that is what we're seeing. particularly for retailers that have disposable or discretionary of apparel or electronics or home furnishings. >> i think guy has a question for you. >> testim and i grew up in west chester and it is a dark day when the galleria mall said it
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is shutting down the dollar stores to me and we've talked about this, they seem to be the best situated in this environment i'm not asking to you name stocks but am i accurate in their asesment. >> anyone that sells food, which the dollar stores do by the way. but walmart, costco, great companies. they've done better than the rest for this point, they will do better than the rest next year as well and that five below, and kroger the largest grocer, home depot and lowe's continue to do well and auto zone you can't sell your house or car, so you might as well make them both better dick's sporting goods and ulta is great in cosmetics. super luxury in this environment as well is doing well. and nordstrom, macy's, kohl's, gap, wilson sonoma and way fair
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and best buy, these are companies that will struggle. >> some things that i heard out of nike and observations but nike almost revalidated brick and mortar model they've talked about dtc working but talked about different call it distribution and omni channel. what is your thought on this we counted so many of these retailers left for dead and if you want from the most sophisticated consumer products who could do whatever they want, they kind of made it sound like we'll see more life back in some of the old galleria malls of the world. is there any truth to that >> i think you'll see more life in the nike stores they control their brand what they have is a great brand. it is a vertically one of the winners, and they've been very careful. they have their goods very sharply segmented to what they'll sell and except fon
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nike.com or in their own stores. >> keeping it real that adobe data, you're not going for it i like that. former toys "r" us ceo doral general finishing higher today along with nike, to tim's point. >> yeah, and i love jerry on f troop. but dollar gen green today on a lousy tape off 8% from the all-time high. i think the valuation is still reasonable for them in this environment so i'll stay with dollar gen as my pick in retail. >> agar was doing great. and the couple of places that i'm encouraged by what i'm seeing out of macy's in terms of both their e-commerce and what they're doing in the stores, what they've doing digitally and in resizing the footprint and the valuation makes a lot of sense. i think retail has a lot of issues into next year including a massive pull forward inflation is coming down the unit dynamics from inflation have been very good for rerts and i think they get worse. >> courtney, what do you think it is hard to believe that
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people even during a downturn aren't going to go back out and shop i know there is a lot of inventory that they didn't sell but they'll get rid of it sooner or later and spring things will come in and first year without any covid is next year. >> yeah, consumers still have cash right now they have about $2.3 trillion in cash from covid and that has been brought down to by atrillion dollars and it likely won't be spent through early next year so consumers could still be spending but look at the lower end because of the dollar general because they are the ones getting hurt the most or your higher end so take like a tapestry, that is your luxury brand and benefiting from china reopening look at those opposite sides of the spectrum continually. >> dan nathan, any trade in the retail sector for you? >> there are a couple of things that stand out to me one of the foods is target and target just adds -- it is god awful. it looks like it is going to
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make 52-week lows and walmart is a target specific stuff but one of the warning bells this year was target so i want to keep a closer eye on that and then the other one is home depot. it has had a massive rally, more than 20% off the october lows and i think that with yields holding in here, i just think that the housing market probably gets tougher i think it is a tougher road to hoe for home depot in 2023 so a couple of names that i don't like but they've gone in opposite discretions over the last few months. >> to a market flash shares of tesla moving higher in the after session. pippa has more on that. >> well elon musk saying just now that he doesn't plan to sell any more tesla shares in the immediate future speaking in a twitter space, he said, you could count on me, no stock sales until like probably 2025 or something. he doubled down on that adding, quote, you have my commitment, i
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won't sell stock probably until two years from now musk adding that he believes his political comments have a quote, minor impact on tesla sales. this of course comes as tesla is on track for its worse month on record sales -- shares. ev maker are up 3% in extended session. >> our pippa stevens back at cnbc hblgd headquarters. thank you. >> who is buying that. >> go ahead. >> no, i want to hear dan on this one. >> no, so really quickly, again, elon musk is establishing himself as a liar on this exact topic of he said that numerous times over last year and he's continued to sell stock. here is the thing. because of all of his tesla shares that have been pledged to banks for a whole host of reasons as it relates to the twitter deal, he plight be forced to sell it might be the bank selling because it is a margin call. so it doesn't -- it wouldn't make me feel better if i was one of the long suffering shareholders who have seen him just sell the stock in their
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faces for months and months. >> yeah, i mean, the funding secured tweet is one of the great ones eof all time. this guy gdoes not believe that he has to be transparent and tell you what he's going to do this is part of the reason why the stock is undergone what it is gone and i think the bloom owe off this rose. >> elon musk in his tweets and his comments, definitely impacting the stock. up next, a rebellion stock trying to hang on like an aging action hero, not willing to say ha hasta la investigata baby. and one analyst saying gold could hit $4,000 this year we're going to debate that when we return. with gold bond...
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welcome back to "fast money. another meme stock rally could be in the works and bets are getting bulkier and amc, one trader now betting amc will be testing the 2021 lows within the next four months mike khouw joins us now with that action. hey, mike. >> that is one very busy but today it was much busier puts trading nearly four times the average daily volume
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the single largest trade was 10,000 of the april 3 puts buying about $1.55 and 1.5 million in premium that the stock will go below that strike but the busiest contract with the april 2 puts, nearly 70,000 of those trading and institutional a traders that amc could still go lower. >> thanks, mike. before we let you go, any particular thoughts about amc, either the options or the stock itself >> yeah. i mean, amc, the options and also the debt are suggesting that this thing is in real trouble. it is probably toast and if you compare it to some of the other meme stocks like game stop and bed bath & beyond, they don't have any debt, so it is very story you have debt trading at 11 cents on the dollar and that one is in real trouble too. >> we appreciate it. and tim, we saw a tweet from the amc ceo, suggesting that
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shareholders could vote to boost the share price. >> won't read the whole thing but the basic gist is consider a one over ten stock split and if approves share count goes down so the share price goes up. >> your stock is going be a low' level of relevancy to do you a reverse split. and this is crazy. and he's almost playing on the fact that i'm not trying to pull a fast one you can't pull a fast one. there is nothing value added and they diluted equity more substantially and that is all they can do. this is a meme stock this is poster child and everything about this story that is been looked over here wild i'm over here, this to me is a story that a lot of investors have been lulled in around this cult following of trading during covid when money seemed free. this is been a very unfortunate investment story for a company that was broken going into the pandemic and again, if you look at top line of what they're core business is, it is been
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deteriorating wildly for the last ten years for the reasons we talked about tonight on the show and where people are consuming. so this is a sad story not a happy story. not a time to stir up the pot. i think this is a story a lot of investors have lost on. >> i don't see twitter on apple any more. >> these are the not the kind of environment where we're potentially going into a recession and slowing economy and higher interest rates. this is a company that is not profitable they almost went bankrupt. the retail investor kept them moving this is not something that you want to be invested in it. it is more ofay headline story and not something you want to chase. >> and amc right now 19% short interest so for more "options action" tune in tomorrow at 5:30 p.m. eastern. and coming up, $4,000 one analyst said gold could go to next year. is the precious metal back to
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cramer cam jim is talking to paychex ceo john gibson. catch the full interview at the top of the hour on "mad money" here on cnbc and i bet cramer is excited about the sunday ticket deal so he could watch the eagles without a satellite dish that is important to us. you don't understand it. gold prices down by more than a percent and a half but still up by 8% in the last two months and one analyst thinks it could double from current levels, tellingous colleagues that the price of gold could reach the $4,000 mark next year offering investors a hedge against an economic downturn. guy, are you buying this whole thing with gold? >> yeah, well, i don't know. get me to 2,000 first and then we could talk about doubling from there central banks have been buying gold in record amounts i i'm sure we have some graphic to drop. some banks have been buying the physical metal
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it hasn't manifested itself in the price but that is just a matter of time and you have say to yourself, what do the central bankers say, they're trying to position themselves for the inevitable. so i would much rather be long gold than short it and i think tim agrees as well. >> maybe five years ago you could come up with any thesis why gold might rally and then the perfect storm over the last couple of years as you do see runaway inflation but finally with inflation having peaks, i'll make that that call and with the fed lightening back up an an environment where the dollar is also peaked, this is a great environment for gold agree with guy 4,000 is not something i'm going to get out there and waive a pom pom on i'll say gold and silver and pgm's overall are going higher, is this a real question about gold is it a stagflation hedge, courtney. >> i'm so glad you brought that
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up because i like the idea of gold going higher, and we're seeing central banks in china are starting to purchase gold buts it not been the inflation hedge that people want it to be. it is underperformed even in a year like now when inflation is going to kick in we haven't used gold and had a broad commodities basket because they have been a much better hedge. i think you bring up a really good point, frank. >> so dan nathan, when we said or that person from street said it might double, i saw you take a sip of something you started joking and almost did a spit take. i don't know what you're drinking on. you definitely had a reaction. >> you know it is interesting, we've talked about why is the vix at 22 here and in a market that seems to be on a hair trigger. so when i think of gold, and you start seeing some targets like that, and i get why tim and guy like it here, i start looking at the options and like the gld, the etf attracts it and from a
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vault perspective, they're really cheap and if you're looking to play for something where you think that gold could just explode some day because some sort of macro event or some sort of central bank issue or something related to stagflation or whatever, there is cheap ways to play it in the options market and to find your risk through the gld and using options to do it so that is the way i think about it being a bit speculative on what i think is also a very speculative risk asset. >> yeah. a lot of questions about what r mite tnk an inflation hedge foa nu ihi we thought it was crypto. coming up next, your final trades
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it is time for final trades. let's go around the horn guy? >> great having you frank. i like new mont mining on the back of what we're just talking about. >> the gold play there we go. dan, over to you >> yeah, putting together a buy list for 2023, lowe's and i think are much lower an paypal is on the list relative to square. after seeing you sipping i thought it might be de aujyo. >> courtney. >> eem i like emerging markets anz i think the story is over shadowing that the fact that the
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second largest economy is reopening. >> thank you for joining us. f troop, underrated show thanks, guy. pfizer underrated pipeline and i say gossing higher. >> thank you for watching "fast money. "mad money" with jim cramer, philadelphia native, eagles fan, starts right now my mission is simple to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica other people want to make friends. i'm just trying to make you some money. my job is not just to entertain you but to educate and teach you. so call me at 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet yes @jimcramer i keep telling you in this ma
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