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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  January 9, 2023 5:00pm-6:00pm EST

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that complicates this idea that inflation is kind of already figured out, i think they obviously -- that's a nonanswer, because it's binary, but i don't think a good number on inflation is fully reflected in the market. >> good number balanced by tough continued fed-speak. that would be the tug of war see you tomorrow. >> all right see you all tomorrow as well "fast money" is now. \s bouncing off the bottom even on a down say. ev is making a comeback, even crypto and other stocks rising from the ashes plus we'll fin the "fast money" game show wheel on china. up over 60%, is it time to trade or fade china? later we'll start the big reveals of our acronyms of 2023. all week two traders will literally spell out their picks. tonight is a big bank, a couple
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rides home, and a way to stay social i'm melissa lee, and we are start off with a major loss of momentum for the markets the dow erasing a more than 300-point gain today the s&p almost up a percent and a half at its highs, finishing basically flat the nasdaq held on to its gains. helping the tech-heavy index, a couple of recently beaten-down names, tesla with the highest close of the year. is it just a head fake dan, what did you make of today? the fact we saw that is that pop
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out, it's not great action to close on the lows. i think if we come in below expectations that may cause another lag in the rally, but if we go to last metropolitan, we had a huge breakout, were at much higher levels here, and we ended up going down towards 3800 i don't love the price action here, and i just tell you this i think the market or at least investors re-read what was in that jobs report if the cpi number is hot, we'll break to the down side and probably on our way back toward 3600 on the s&p. >> i agree first of all, great to have you back it was a long time, it seemed. delighted to have you back i don't know why the market rallied so much on friday.
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if it's cooler, i don't think it's necessarily up. >> and so if it happens, i don't know that we would get any goose from that. it feels like things chain when the new year starts. i don't think things really have, but people are -- all of the same big-picture macro issues still are there >> at one point 6% gain so far, guy. >> in response to karen's first comment, might response is meh, number one the fed made it abundantly clear
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to come on to talk about that. in terms of what the market is setting up for, you could look at it this way you could take it as encouraging that the market didn't give all that much back today that's one way to look at it as well i choose to look at it as we reversed about 11:00 a.m., 11:30, and headed lower. the vix found its feet a bit i think if you want to stay on the sidelines until thursday, that's fine, but if that number is hot, i think the market goes significantly lower. if it comes in better than expected, you fade the ensuing rally. >> steve >> i agree with that first of all, this was the first day back for a lot of traders. no one was in the office the last few weeks everything does hinge on cpi
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i think we're trying to look through the fed. so i don't know, dan started off saying by they reread it, that's possible maybe they wanted to look for a negative statement out of that, i think that's positive. it doesn't mean we don't go lower. earnings, if the rest of the analyst community is calling for an earnings recession, we have to wait for the prints to see which direction we go. so, for me, i don't think it was necessarily terrible action today. today was terrible to give it all back, keep getting rejected, but we still closed above the 100-day, so i think that's as positive as i can get. >> by the way, we'll have mike wilson on tomorrow, tomorrow's "fast money" show -- is that seems to be the consensus at this point this is a notion that when
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things being consensus -- when everything is calls for a huge recession, or huge pullback, everybody is expecting the first half to be a terrible first half, the second half to bounce. >> that makes me very nervous, too, but the decision is we're talking about large pools of capital. we're talking about lots of moving parts as it relates to a global economy that really is just not in sync just yet. so i get this whole idea of the china reopening should be a tailwind for global growth, but i think the stronger likelihood is europe will be in a recession very soon, the u.s. probably not far after. with mike coming on, he's called for the tactical rallies i spoke to him recently. he's fairly well convinced the issue about sentiment is one thing, but the idea that you have earnings estimates still up 10% or so for this year tells
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you there's still something out of sync here strategists start lowering their estimates. investors shoot first and ask later. we saw it last week with the downgrady a wall street analyst. that stock was down in two days. >> the thing that seems to be tricky this time around, it's one thing to say estimates are too high, but if we believe what many economists and fed officials say, and that is we don't know what the lag effects are of monetary policy, what has happened we don't know what to price in
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what do you shoot against? it seems like a moving target. >> it's always a moving target, we just don't know it. for me, i just want to be in lower-multiple companies and out of higher-multiple companies it's kind of that simple the market is not a monolith there's a lot of things going into it. that's how i want to be positioned for that unknown. >> guy >> that makes sense. in terms of, you know, everybody is sitting on one side of the boat, that's probably true, though mike wilson might have a different take, but for years, the consensus was there is no alternative, and you buy every dip in the rally that proved to be correct for a long period of time. we're just coming around to the grips that the market can go lower, and we're literally just months into something that on
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the flip side lasted north of a decade this week is the first full week we've got a full earnings slate, and we'll finally have data in conference calls and commentary to listen to and digest. we've been to a quiet period, so what do you think the next few weeks will be like >> so we have actually data to listen to, and conference calls to listen to, and everything you see. the problem is that the fed keeps monopolizing all of our attention, that's what we'll pay attention to the banking are more important than ever out of gate. tempo, pace, what do the earnings look like we've heard mike mayo say the
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banks are as preerd as they ever have been for a recession. what does tech think >> we now -- but hoe deep will the cuts will be even though the earnings might come in, they're make cuts, the markets will buy those shorts. today was a big of a merger monday, a bit of activity, i really want to hear his take on the economy and the credit i think it will be pretty good >> really?
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right out of gate, that stock was trading near an all-time high it was -- who actually was more optimistic and he changed his tune late last year. what was interesting is the ten-year went from 4.25 to 3.5, it dropped like 20%. it hand really recaptured all of that the thing that makes me -- into
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wells fargo, they all report friday morning they perform really well off of the lows i think jpmorgan was up. if they're even just cautious, which they actually should be. the real on inflation is just around the corner that's due up thursday for more, let's bring in steve liesman. >> it doesn't feel like it would. another day, and two fed officials -- mayor daly saying that both the 25 or a 50 could be on the table and it's too soon meanwhile, point-blank, no raid
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cuts through on 2024 he'll consider 235 basis point hike. and then running around, could be lower than that z what the fed is all concerned about? back to where it was but it failed again today. the appearance, at least is that fed officials are not data dependent, but instead they have a hot date with a 5% funds rate or higher. i talked to a column by contraprofessor over the
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weekend, and he said for -- their actions so so predictable. melissa? >> when the fed comes out and speaks, first of all, they sound like the same. the whole thing is wrangling the markets. >> and it seems like the more they talk, the less control they have, in terms of the two-year, what's happened with the ten-year, it's all these things they keep repeating. the risk of doing too little is outweighed it outweighs the risk of doing too much all these components, they put
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them into their speeches and comme commentaries market probables are spread out >> steve, it's interesting, i'm grad you problem that up people say it was much different that time, but i think there's a analog, parallel when he was on all opilot, i think in his hard of hearts, i think he got browbeat into submission is there in semblance, that he's going to stick to his guns, and he's not anyone dictate anything to him
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and i think sticking to his guns means he ate going to let up you can't see some of it when you see the payroll report and those downs in november. but that's where he's at right now. he believes the core service sector is the area to look at. he believes that is driven by the tight labor market, so no letup from the fed until that area shows some improvement. >> steve, what do you think he needs to see what about in the counter. pi what would he need to see to say, all right, we'll pause? >> well, there's an expectation -- okay. he's divided up the inflation
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picture. the first is the gets sector, second is housing, and third is the core services ex-housing he expects housing to roll off in the coming months it might be by the coming summer when the lower rates or rents that are out there start to filter into the index. there's an acknowledgement that's lagging what is happening in the economy, but he will want to see this service sector start to show less inflation whether or not that price index is a leading indicator here, it has gone the other way, compared to what's happening in the cpi report that's what i would look ought. >> steve, as always, thank you. >> a pleasure. if we're buying the rumor, what is selling the news
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in my head in a way, so we're seeing this kind of reversion to the mean even if we do come in off the highs, we're looking for a 6.1 print, and it's still going to be high. you know, it's just a tough situation here, and i think the most important takeaway i have is if the fed is going to do what they did in 2021 into 2022, and they'll overstay their welcome, they're telling you they're going to stay tighter for longer that stagflationary environment will weigh on values a lot of these major companies, you know, that we've seen come down a lot, we haven't seen the estimates come down a lot.
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i don't know why you would expect that to turn on a dime anytime soon, especially before they start to discount a recession. that won't happen in the s&p 500, it has to happen somewhere below the october lows lu lu shares going all downward dog, the real legging lower. >> oh, my. plus the headlines out of jpmorgan's health care conference, what the heads of pfizer and moderna had to say about the space. don't go anywhere. "fast money" is back in two. welcome to ameriprise. i'm sam morrison. my brother max recommended you. so my best friend sophie says you've been a huge help. at ameriprise financial, more than 9 out of 10 of our clients are likely to recommend us. our neighbors, the garcias, love working with you. because the advice we give is personalized, hey, john reese, jr. how's your father doing?
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to help reach your goals with confidence. my sister has told me so much about you. that's why it's more than advice worth listening to. it's advice worth talking about. ameriprise financial.
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i screwed up. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. i screwed up. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too.
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yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. welcome back to "fast money. a buzzkill on lululemon, shares lower than 9%. still, up against revenue outlook saying sales are expected to remain strong. karen, you're out of this one. >> yes thankfully. >> i know you said inventory was high. >> it wasn't that disastrous of a release, actually. they talked about a, so the net wasn't horrible. however, it traded down 30 -- it was like a line-caused
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cellulite, a failed drug trial for lu lu -- should it be at six times the multiple maybe not. >> steve, what do you think? >> once you start mentioning karen just stated the gross margins, that's when you're in trouble. i would stay away from this arm of retail. if you look across the board, ralph lauren, tapestry, capri, the higher-end retail names continue to perform, and more importantly, their stocks continue to move higher. i would stay there. >> guy, what do you think about this notion of higher end? high-income are traded down to walmart, but still buys fancy stuff. >> there's some truth to that. a lot of the middle to higher end are also trading down to walmart. it's a bizarre environment
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i go back to december 8th. we want, 84% inference torrie build on top of 28% sales growth 1.7 billion number of inference torrie inventory. watch, it has to happen. it happened. i'm surprised it took them this long, to be honest they tried to explain it away, saying they did it for a reason, anticipated backend growth, which is horse hockey, as colonel thomas said at one point. bed bath & beyond, with a big bounceback after last week's warning of a potential bankruptcy bb & b is said to turn in the
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report card tomorrow it was a huge volume mover it traded the entire market cap, basically. karen, you're looking at the debt >> yes, they told you, right you don't even need the debt to tell you they told you. you never put that word out there unless you're likely to use it i think this is a bit of a dead cat bowen. they could trade up if they file, but i don't think there's much value for the equity here at all reddit >> i'm trying to parse my words. the amount of vitriol we got on the back of that segment of meme stocks being dead. we're not trying to lead people astray what we've been trying to do is point out the fact that the
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fundamentals for a lot of these companies are extraordinarily flawed what i find remarkable is, regardless of what you tell a lot of these folks, they just don't want to hear it. it's the paul simon lyric, the man hears what he wants and disregards the rest. can the equity go to zero? clearly that can happen, but as long as you continue to see moves of this magnitude in names like this, that does not suggest a market bottom to me. there's a lot more "fast money" to come here's what's coming up next. the latest out of jpmorgan's health care conference, and i biotech check that could be the perfect prescription the names that are worth a look and whether the charts back them up ahead. you're watching "fast money," live from the nasdaq marketsite
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the our meg tirrell has been on the ground speaking with a lot of ceos, including the leaders of pfizer and moderna. she joins us now hi, meg. >> reporter: hey, melissa. the big quest is what is next after the massive growth they have seen? but, of course, the covid pandemic is very real in places like china we asked both leaders what they're doing with that country. here's what they said. >> so far they have shown tremendous -- and it was
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registering china months ago, and we were giving -- now that china is opening, the cases are skyrocketing, from what we are hearing, so we are sending as much paxlovid as we can. >> we're actively in discussion and hoping something will happen, but of course -- it's not sure where they land in the end. >> moderna is saying they're in discussions about the covid vaccine. of course, a lot of questions about what that market ends up looking like in the united states stephane bancel says that the government has asked them to turn to a more traditional vaccine for the next season, and the pricing may be around $110 to $130. we'll have to see where that ends up. beyond that, mel, the biggest
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focus is flu and rsv both of the companies racing to the finish line. the ultimate goal is to pack age them all together. >> meg, great to have you bag. thanks so much. >> reporter: thanks. guy, what do you think of moderna? the challenge is getting the other vaccines out there to replace some of the vaccine revenue it may lose? >> that's exactly right. they're clearly trying to make the pivot. for me it's the $100 table i tend to want to avoid. we have a good job/bad job along the way with this stock. karen was spot on when merck was in the 60s, tim ago well, said how undervalued that stock was, went up basically 80%. look at the move gilead had. both have given back today, now surprising giving the run, but as 2022 was a great year for
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big-cap pharma, i'm not sure that 2023 will be the same type, but these stocks are fairly valued at these levels. >> i agree with guy. 2022 was a great year for them today seemed like a rotation i still have a lot of big-cap exposure, not moderna, but i think there's still room to run here they're low pe stocks generally. >> steve >> the question is that the story has changed, so now it's no longer just covid vaccines. we're talking about the flu, r.s.v., and a host of other things they'll direct us to. the mrna, the messenger mrna technology will be with you for a very long time i think both stocks can run, but i agree with guy, on the mrna, the 50 has to hold, which is 177. that's a tight stop to where we
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are right now. coming up, it's the moment you all have been waiting for. new year, new acronyms there's one stock causing an electric debate. the big reveal is minutes away is china still a buy what the crtha master sees in the charts "fast money" is back right after this [music - cover of blondie's “dreaming”] [music playing] ♪ imagine something of your very own. ♪
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welcome back to "fast money. stocks losing steam throughout the day, the dow dropping more than 100 points, s&p nearly flat, but still in the red the nasdaq notching its second day of gains some individual stocks are continuing to trade near the all-time highs turning to the beijing boom since the october lows it's surged 80% the gain is growing today. over the weekend so china is still uninvestable, or is it time to move back in. >> announcer: trade it or fade it >> that's right, steve grasso, trade or fade china at this
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points with the huge run we have seen >> i'm going to say trade it i find it that the world is going slowdown i would trade it with al babb babb. all the charts look really similar. guys, what would you say >> they've done a lot of other market friendly things including just easing up on the tech crackdown. >> it typically today. october 24th was a month, where the courses of china being uninvestable were never louder they close at 63, north i
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believe of 100 million shares. i said i have no idea whether or not china is investable or not, but collectively we thought for a trade it set up extraordinarily well now, some 60-some percent later to the up side, i don't know, to me it's more the deep end of the pool >> vdan, trade it or fade it >> i'm trading it. listen, we have thousands of stocks, thousands of etfs here to actually invest, and i don't find it particularly interesting. if you think about what this sort of aggress we have between us and china, i only thing that ratchets it up oy just don't find it that compelling
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guy had a great call even i bought some fxi calls i'm not interested in trading it anymore, and certainly not investing in chinese companies, especially when our companies, many of the same ilk, our companies are not able to com compete for their consumers over there. >> karen >> my gut answer is to fade it, but looking at my portfolio, i'm long a bunch of things that do have exposure. things like apple, you know, like capri, that's a big marked for them what was the last one? louis vuitton, also a big mart for them i'm there.
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let's go to carter worth would you trade or fade china? >> here fairly short-term trade are on the month, week over week, anything that's rallied this month, you write calls, take some measures if you're thinking long term, i'm not hedging. i just put out a note, for anyone long and steady, running big money, big mutual fund complex, only because it's rallied this mvp, much -- the october 24th low here we are, just weeks, a few months later so it really is who you are in the market the term "uninvestable" moren
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put that out mid 2021, there was a lot of damage done. then 24th just days later, it bottomed what you know is there's a well-defined outfit, and let's put some arrows in we've rallied to a different level. anything that drops that much, has rallied this much, as a trader, you fade it. one would say it's only because of this strength is it worth even considering. >> is there any different yay, carter, between the charts of an index-based method of investing in china versus k-web zest
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the -- any way you slice it, you get 85-plus percent correlation. it is principles are the same. boeing itself is up almost 100%. a lot of individual stocks, so it's not about the management of the move per say it's the level to which the index has run. >> is it still so bad it's good, or is it so good it's bad now? >> that's right, so what to do the easiest thing in a way is how to cope with losers. in principle, just get out this has rallied a lot should we stay what if it rallies a lot more and we cut it here very hard. i don't know my hunch is to fade it >> carter, thank you and karen, you're still
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long >> i'm still long, my humplg is not to face it, but clearly it should have been dan and i added a while ago, decently, and yours was more of a trade, and you got out, which was a great trade. >> mine was a trade, but this is part of the conversation we had at the top here is a company that doubled their employees base they're starting to take some measures on cost here, so the way i think about this, i don't think you're going to miss much after the rally we just had. if you wait and hear about the results and how they match up with the cost cuts , and it is expired maybe they do hit on some stuff in the metaverse. you know, what is it it was $80 and now it's $130. >> grasso, i know you're looking
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at it as well. off that balance, that in hindsight that seems to often that it was going to be longer lasting. it's closed that gap tro the earnings miss that it had where it traded down to the recent lows i cannot argue with any of the statements where you should sell it, because it bounced back this much i'm staying long i'm a longer-term investor, because it's been so beaten down, i'm willing to stay a bit longer. coming up, what's on top our traders' minds this year they'll spell it out next in the acronyms reveals and coinbase is breaking out. we have more after this quick break. tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go.
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the names our traders are spelling out that could be worth a look dan and steve's contradictory thoughts on tesla. steve's going to wait a second as dan makes the big reveal.
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dan -- >> tslx. that's the tesla, but here's what i want to do. you know my whole thing, qs and 2s in this case the 20. the tlt is the treasury etf. at some point i think this year will be a great buy. i think rates have topped out. the other is snap. to me i think this is a heal social asset they're making a bit of money. same thing there for lyft. i think you'll see some strategic m&a for some relatively cheap names like that the last one is the qqq. i just think the top five names make up about 24%. i'm in the camp that some of those prior leaders are the ones that lead us out so i want to own, you know, a bet on yields going lower. healthstat, i think some of
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those names are really interests, and last, the tlsq, i think last year the year that the, you know, the bloom is off the rose as far as elon musk this is the year that fundamentals make tesla go even lower than it is right now i think the pillars of the barricades will play themselves out in 2023. i think tslq >> it fits in there, because you already have use t, s, l and q >> see what i did there? >> squeezed one in there you're not playing by the rules. >> but i don't play by the rules. >> all of this feels like a risk-on. >> listen, i don't know anybody who buys a bunch of names in the first week of january. this is my target list
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how about that >> steve grasso, you're on the other side of tesla, what's your acronym? >> it's just jpmorgan for all the reasons i stated for the last couple of shows. i think they're the most set sup function i know they have outperformed. as sedan just set, a lot of green from the years i think jpmorgan's outperformance maybe comes in a bit. if you look back to the financial crisis they have outperformed pretty much on every other metric that's my safer bet. then unitedhealth that got demolished i would like the year to start on january 6th where unh seems to have bottomed i think this one will do you well if the market decides to come in just a bit this is more of my safety trade
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in the space, or in my acronym, so the "j" and "u" are more value. then i jump to a spac. they've been dough mealished i think that's why stem inc. was hit so hard. now it's raising its head. they actually factor in a doubling of the stock, at least. so femme, for most people who don't know the name. this is artificial intelligence energy company they regulate whether you hit battery, on site, or if you're going to the grid. they do it automatically they switch back and forth it's very environmentally friendly, it lowers carbon emissions. i think that's where the stock
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is going i think it has a bright future ahead of it. so i get all dan's reasons about tesla. i don't really disagree. this fits into the it's so bad it's good for me category. it's been so beaten up in 2022 it comes times for elon musk to talk more about batteries than cars i think this one can balance aggressively i'm going long. >> it feels like there should be a view poll or something we'll reevaluate coinbase shares in the crypto exchange, is the move higher here to stay for more on that, much more "fast money" in two.
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i screwed up. a bank that knows your business grows your business. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles.
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that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. coinbase soaring today j.p. securities -- and a $35 price target coinbase blew through that level
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take, took some names among with it and options traders are betting there's more to go mike khouw has the action. volume trader were focusing on the weekly 40 strike calls that's about 3% of the current stock price, betting this rally we saw today could continue through the end of the week. thanks for that, mike. id amore tune into the full shot frayt 5:30 p.m up next, final trades.
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take a look at shares of oak street health surging by 28%, bloomberg reporting that cvs is in stalks, to the final trade, guy? >> happy anniversary, "fast money" 16 years. >> wow >> halliburton, mel. >> we don't like a day over 13, right? [ laughter ] >> steve >> i'm going with tesla. i think it will work its way
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back to $150 karen? >> i'm going to sell some upside calls against it. >> dan nathan? >> tmlt. thank you all for watching, helping us make it 16 years. we'll se my miegs -- mission is simple to help you make money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. wel welcome to cramerica other people want to make friends. i'm trying to make you money my job is not just to entertain but teach you. call me at 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet me @jimcramer. tech was back. these were rallied like it's
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2020 which i

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