tv Fast Money CNBC February 13, 2023 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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>> there is going to be some twitching around i would expect. and we'll have absorb what the fed speak response to it is. we are going to get more numbers before the next fed meetings that's another reason why it might not be make or break tomorrow >> i feel live week become necessary fed speak any way. focus on powell and drown out the noise. >> they're all reiterating themselves. >> i'll see you tomorrow that's mike issantoli with his last word. "fast money" is now. p. right now on "fast," a hot start to a new week on wall street microsoft the biggest driver serving another 3 plus percent, continuing the surge since the new being with chatgpt ford announcing a ev battery boost. the interesting wrinkle here they're partnering with a chinese company to build a new factory here in the u.s. so how will our tensions with beijing impact this move and later, work from home taking a massive toll on new york city's bottom line, from real estate to restaurants the billions being lost from workers not coming to the big apple.
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and is there a short there i'm melissa lee. this is "fast money. we're live at the nasdaq market site on the desk from our temporary home, karen finerman, dan nathan, steve grasso, and guy adami. just as the studio upstairs gets constructed. this will be your new home but fun digs here. we start with the $100 billion question that's about how much market cap has flown out of alphabet and into microsoft over just the past week when the aai chat bought wars. microsoft potion its highest close since late august. alphabet flat but down from its early february highs so what does this transfer of value tell us about the ai race and the futures for google and microsoft? it's interesting how long this has persisted, karen we were chatting in the green room i thought this was a couple day phenomenon, and here we are. >> the interesting part was last week that's sort of $110 billion, almost dollar for dollar value from microsoft -- or from google rather to microsoft, which is
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interesting. but also interesting is the $338 billion is it that microsoft has increased just from the announcement of the $1 billion into chat gbt that's extraordinary i feel like this is pretty much overdone i am a google shareholder. that's my big position i feel like obviously i have somewhat of a bias there this is sort of front-running what may or may not be a huge shift of market share. >> you know, it's interesting. when google gapped down 6% after their paris event, that was an astoundingly large move on one thing. a lot of it was structured to microsoft's events the prior day that seemed to go really well. this chatgpt really has captured the imagination of not just the tech world, but beyond it.
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so when you think about those two events, you say to yourself, okay, one has the lead and the other doesn't. to your point, karen, microsoft now has committed so much capital to this, and is also giving rebates for their cloud services, that sort of thing we're not going to see any material shift in market shares as it relates to this surge i think based on these kind of products we've seen deployed over the last couple of weeks on these things but i guess what i would say, and i talk about it on thursday, i put on a paris trade where i was short microsoft and long google and that was working out really well on friday but then when you see, to your point, you used the term "surge," melissa up 1.5%. at one point it was up 4%. in market cap terms, that just massive. there are huge bets that are being made about the future, but i just don't believe right now that makes a whole heck of a lot of sense that's why i put that trade on right now microsoft feels like it's off to the races, and google act versus poorly, still. this is not like a sort of here and now effect i think that we're going see in the earnings over the next couple of quarters.
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>> sure. one thing to add, though google really shot themselves in the foot with that sort of, you know, not fully baked roll-out. >> ai. >> and there is the perception that google is so far behind in the ai race, and that is not the case they have been -- ai is in incorporated in all of their products so we have this big term "ai," but it's such a pervasive technology already there but it seems like alphabet is just really sort of done a terrible job of spinning the story. they're not really spinning it and they shouldn't spin it wait, have some good spin. when you have it, but don't go off sort of half cocked. >> they seem to have lost the narrative just a touch when the memos started to go out and it was reported that they were calling back the founders, guy. but at this point, the markets are forward-looking, right if we look into the future, do we see that microsoft is putting a better foot forward in terms
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of its stake in ai and how it is thinking about ai versus how alphabet appears to be thinking about ai in terms of how it has put its foot forward and it was very underwhelming for investors. >> yeah. your point about them seemingly panicking by bringing back the founders i think the market sort of seized upon that and sold first, asked questions later. some of the google problems are clearly google and the businesses they're in specific and if the only arena that these two companies were vying for business in were ai, i could understand this move but it's not microsoft is now a $2 trillion company, and one has to wonder how meaningful this will maybe ten years from now, yes. over the next couple of years? i'm not so sure. it comes down to what are you willing to pay as dan put on the paris trade last week, just in terms of the math, at current levels, microsoft is trading close to 25 times next year's numbers. assuming they make that. and if you go back and listen to
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the conference call, there is still some question as to whether or not they're going to be able to get there and i've said it 100 times i think microsoft is one of the five, if not three most important companies in the world. but does it deserve this kind of valuation? on the flip side now, google at either side of 16 times next year's numbers, at a certain point valuations are going to matter i think dan may have been a couple of days early last week, but i think he is looking at it the correct way. >> right here, right now, grasso, alphabet or microsoft? >> you know, i knew you were coming with a would you rather here so right here right now, i would go with alphabet, only because the damage -- karen said it's a little long in the tooth i'm paraphrasing a little overdone. it hit its 50-day moving average. traded a little below, 94.13, or thereabouts for its 50-day i would like to play it from the standpoint of the stock that got hit the hardest off of this
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news both of them broke out to the upside from declining trend lines. both of them did not have the same scenario after the fact google obviously broke down. microsoft continued to break out. but this is about search ai is about search so google is not getting their lunch stolen from them right now. but their lunch is search. and if ai is going to have the keys to that vehicle going forward, that's why it's such a big deal and that's why google collapsed on such a bad outing when they showed off what they did have, which showed what they didn't have >> yeah, and just to be really clear, riebl now i think what investors are getting to see is how it applies the search. but if you look across both of these companies and their productivity tools, this is going to be a massive differentiator we know that microsoft is pushed to make office and those other tools into the cloud that's where google's have always been. you already see it in a lot of
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their products to me, listen, thing is going to be a multihorse race i don't think one of them are going to run away in 2023. when you think about the way alphabet is actually been investing in this space in their own tools for probably a decade right now, i know that sundar football over, he said this is going to be an ai first company. they've been doing this in the background does it look a little panicky as they're throwing $250 million at revenue companies and trying to do this? maybe. but ultimately, in the markets this stuff works itself out. to guy's point, this is a $2 trillion company market cap versus a $1.2 trillion company they both have over $200 billion in revenues with north of 60% gross margins. it really is the fear of margin dig degrading but i think this is going to work itself out >> i said $1 billion in chat gbt and then 110 nonetheless, 338 on the 10
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>> in return >> it's like a spac return. >> for more on this let's bring in brett win itton, has been tracking the ai race grates to have you with us right now we're thinking about the revenue impact but in terms of long-term advantage, google versus microsoft, who has it? >> i think google is fundamentally impaired by this transition to ai it's a classic innovator's dilemma story where they claim they have technology they could do it if they wanted to, but the transition to ai really imperils both the cost structure of search and their ability to generate revenue. their entire business model is based on taking people and delivering them to the next light. and these ai systems actually deliver answers to the end users. so search as a way station for the rest of the internet it's not going to persist as a typical user behavior over the
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course of this business cycle. >> is this assessment made based almost solely on what google unveiled last week or was this your thinking prior to and going into even that botched launch? >> oh, yeah. independent of that botched launch, i think people like google will say hey we have just as good ai as open ai, which is probably true. but their entire business structure revolves around this idea that people go to a site to go to another site to get to their answer we think that text prompt ai-based tools are going to live inside of software you're no longer going to go outside of excel to google search to look for a piece of data that piece of data is going to be provided to you inside excel. so it will cut google search out of that entire user flow and extend that to any economic activity that an employee engages in so like the stages of grief for kind of google shareholders is
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one. first stage, hey, this isn't going to matter. second stage is hey, this will make search more costly to perform. then the third stage is hey, actually, this is going to impact the number of click-throughs we get from search because it's providing answers. be the fourth stage is hey, people aren't going to go to search at all. traffic is going to fall off because the way in which we engage with the material of information on the internet is going to be changed by this. >> so we're making the point that there is almost a dollar for dollar transfer of market cap from alphabet to microsoft in just the past one week. walk us through, if you will, what microsoft has that you think is innovative? or maybe what you think they have that isn't. it just shows that google's model is fragile it is vulnerable >> yeah, i think google's model is fragile and it doesn't necessarily accrue to microsoft's benefit. i don't think a head to head competition between search engines is actually leading us to the winning strategy. instead, you can imagine that maybe google protects search by
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spending a lot more money on ai inferencing, and potentially driving business towards nvidia as microsoft tries to compete with them. it could be that microsoft strategy in launching bing powered by ai is really just a way to collect data to monetize on the back end through their office franchise and the way in which ai is going to build into the office franchise so i don't know that microsoft is the natural winner here it's much more clear that there will be a lot of money spent on ai investment that picks and shovels that provide for this kind of capability into software will be really well-positioned i think the analogy to the early internet is a good one where early internet, the winner was not -- the amazons and the consumer-facing internet companies that we think of today were cisco, which was providing all of the infrastructure that allowed people to get connected. well, here who is providing the
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infrastructure that allows these ai models to be changed? that's the chip companies. that is companies in the private space like mosaic and mielke who are enabling enterprises to build these ai models for themselves and so it's really interesting and i think google is very vulnerable . >> it's karen. thanks for being on. i agree with you on the picks and shovels concept. but getting back to the search concepts, it sounds like you must think, then, that even if google retains shore, or regardless of who gets share, that ultimately it will just be a less profitable business to be in search. what do you think is going to happen to those margins if i'm right about what i think your theory is? >> yeah, i think the cost to provide a search could massively compress margins we think that it's roughly a penny and a half of revenue per google search. and it might cost you a penny to run the ai model if you're running a large language model inference against that google search well, that actually stacked on
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top of the other infrastructure of providing that search, that might eat all of the operating profit of a search if they're forced to do that. so just from google's perspective of going from a highly profitable business to a business that is marginally profitable is a big transformation for that company, and that's not even taking into account the potential revenue impact, the potential impact on traffic to search as a pattern for how people operate in the internet i think there is a lot of threat to that business model from here >> when you think about from microsoft the percentage of revenue that comes from search, how commit do you think that they will be to this business that is going to be very costly for them to scale it from 30 million users now in their chatgpt that's enabled with bing versus really going head to head with google? that's where this may run out of steam a little bit >> well, i think microsoft as an enterprise-facing company actually has an advantage position here.
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we think that ai is going to monetize through the enterprise first, and microsoft could underwrite the search business as basically a loss leader in order to collect the data it needs to improve its ai capability in its office suite software as someone who uses excel all the time, i'm look forward to having an ai-powered excel that is going to be better and i'm going to pay more for it because of the data microsoft gets off whatever happens with bing i don't think they're going to try to run bing profitably, because they have such a profitable office productivity franchise that will be super powered by ai. >> thank you so much for joining us it's great to get your perspective on this. >> my pleasure thanks for having me >> brett winton of ark invest. it's interesting the way he poses it that we're speaking strictly about chatgpt and bing, but there are other ways it will help the business on the
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baypaying end when you're paying for some of the productivity software. >> tim would call that the fly wheel effect it makes a lot of sense, without question, right? i understand the accretive nature it could have for microsoft. but i also think we're probably a few years away from that, at least. and in the meantime, this stock has gotten extraordinarily expensive in a very short period of time. if we were tasked to talk about microsoft three to five years from now, it might be a different conversation i'll tell you, over the next couple of weeks, though, i think microsoft has run too much too fast that last quarter in the subsequent conference calls is all i needed to hear with that said, he is talking about if i listen to him correctly a bit of an existential risk to going physical they don't get their act together and that might be the case as well but as karen made the point earlier, i think gene minuteser as well laz week, ai is something google has been working on for at least a decade it's not like they're completely behind thele ball. the market speaks, you got to listen, but i think the market is a little i had of itself
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right now. earnings alert on palantir we'll bring in the details next. ev, the automaker announcing a new battery plan it's who they're partnering with that is turning heads. we've got the details when "fast money" returns go. go air that runs factory. go sensors and software. go find leaks. go fix-em. emerson technology detects compressed air leaks to save manufacturers, like colgate, over 20% in energy costs. go brush your teeth. go boldly. emerson. for businesses of all sizes, there are a lot of choices when it comes to your internet and technology needs. when you choose comcast business internet, you choose the largest, fastest reliable network. you choose advanced security for total peace of mind. and you choose a next generation 10g network that's always improving, getting faster; more reliable; and more intelligent to keep you ready for today and tomorrow. the choice is clear: make your business future ready with the network from the most innovative company. comcast business.
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welcome back to "fast money. ford shares popping nearly 3% after the automaker revealed its latest ev investment it plans to open a battery plant in michigan with chinese supply atl despite the rising chinese tensions phil lebeau spoke about this partnership. phil >> ford believes it allows them to gain the benefits of the tax credits that will be put in place and are already in place once this plant opens in 2026. this is the way the deal will be structured ford will own and operate this plant. it will not be a joint venture with catl it will license the catl technology 2500 jobs said to be created in south central michigan given the tensions between the
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u.s. and china, some have questioned whether or not ford should go through with this deal but when we talked with jim farley, he says that's not an issue. >> there is always risk in business, but we feel really comfortable. catl is the largest battery manufacturer in the world. and they have a lot of experience with u.s. companies, companies around the world so they're in all of our day daily consumer products. i don't expect any surprises based on their reputation, scale, and experience. >> remember, ford is number two in evs but a very distant number two compared to the market leader tesla. the significance of this deal is that this plant will manufacture lfp ev batteries what does that mean? it's lithium iron phosphate. it has slightly lower range. it will allow ford to increase margins and potentially lower cost on the vehicles because these batteries will not cost as much as the current makeup of
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the ev batteries that they build. one last thing bill ford, chairman of the ford motor company was at the announcement today in romulus, michigan he was asked, look is jim farley still your man is he still the guy to fix this company after what happened in the fourth quarter he said yeah i think he is doing a fantastic job, and that he is focused, jim farley is focused on eliminating the inefficiencies that came out and were behind the company falling short of its profit targets for all of 2022. that's the story with ford, melissa. you see the shares getting a little bit of a pop today. >> roughly, phil, what is the differential in costs? will it cost that much less in terms of what they will make the battery for and what they give up on range? >> yeah. well, lfp batteries are about 15% less to produce than ncm, the other technology, the current makeup of the batteries that ford uses right now
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overall, lfp batteries have a range that's probably 15% less than the current makeup or mcn batteries. but let's talk about this, melissa. a lot of people sit there and say well, i want all 300 miles of range, if that's what a particular vehicle's range is. the reality is not everybody uses all of that remember, 80% of americans drive less than 40 miles a day so while you do want range, lfp is not going give you so much less that you would have to be going wait a second, i'm making a is huge sacrifice here. >> phil, thanks. phil lebeau. steve grasso, what do you make of this announcement >> yeah, i think obviously with recent events, congress, it's going to be bipartisan they're going to be laser-focused on this. not that the deal won't go through, but i think it's going to be met with a lot of headwinds. gm on the stock front, gm has outperformed ford. the stocks look similar, but gm
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has broken out recently out of their declining trim line. this is going to go a way to help ford break out of their declining trim line. but chart looks better on a year basis, the stock has outperformed ford. i think it's still going to outperform ford. i like their size and scale when it comes to their ev partnerships in this country and what they're doing but obviously, that chart that phil showed, tesla is still king of the hill. there are still two other companies that are chasing them. but in that chase, i like gm better than ford >> there is a reason why bill ford was asked whether or not chris farley was your man, because of the execution issue from the latest quarter that they posted. >> yeah. i think that -- i mean, they're trying to turn around like an aircraft carrier, right? and so to me, it's such a gigantic endeavor. to miss like they did, all right, that's not great for sure, but it's such a big job that i think they need a lot
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more time. so, you know, i don't think they're really going to get going until 2024 to have enough products in the market the same for gm. i actually think mary barra needs to perform by the end of 2024 as well she has staked her tenure there on the transition to ev. they keep pushing it out they need to be further along. but i'm staying long gm. >> it's interesting. when you think about tesla, and again, i've given this to them, i think their charging network, i think their access to batteries, their ability to build them, all that stuff, i think that is a huge differentiator to all the competition. but i think watching the super bowl last night, and again, this is anecdotal, you think that the competition is coming. when you hear a headline this, the competition for battery manufacturers is coming there is a lot of criticism about full self-driving i think that is obviously one of the pillars of the bear case that it's not the thing that a lot of people think who are buying tesla are there for it's interesting when you put all of this stuff together listen, i still have a short position in tesla.
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it's had that huge run off the bottom i did think that when it was down 4% today, after being down 5% on friday, i thought the fever might have broken. it closed pretty decently again. and this goes back to i think interest rates, and it goes back to where we think the economy is going and if we think there is going to be a recession, where we think the relations with china are going. i think there are a lot of things encapsulated in tesla's valuation right here that others, gm and ford and some of these other automakers are not dealing with i do think it's all this stuff is like a big motorcycle sake here, but i'm not sure tesla sought of the woods yet. there is a lot more "fast money" to come. here's what's coming up next palantir shares on the move. as the secretive software company's results cross the wires. the details from the quarter, next next, fed or foe why our next guest warns investors the fed is not your friend his call ahead of tomorrow's inflation data you're watching "fast money," live from the nasdaqar mket site in times square.
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welcome back to "fast money" earnings alert on palantir, earnings shares surge posting a quarterly profit for the first time in its history. frank holland's got the latest from terns call. frank? >> ceo alex carp and other executives talking about the growth of their commercial business, and also the growing interest in artificial intelligence along with the growth of that u.s. commercial revenue and customers for palantir appears to be what's moving this stock higher i spoke with ceo alex carp earlierer. he said palantir uses ai in its work with the u.s. military, but there are many other applications commercial increasing by 79%
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carp told me in part we build ai to train the algorithm in the context of an enterprise with technology that no one has, but everyone will need he added palantir has received some acquisition interest. palantir as you mentioned turning its first ever quarterly profit, posting a strong beat on margin palantir said it expects to be profitable for this entire fiscal year. however, the revenue guidance for the current quarter and the full year below estimates, melissa. >> thank you very much, frank holland. guy, what do you make of this? >> the p in my hope trade, as you know part of my thesis is they'll start to get away from military contract, get into more msbs, commercial space, and that product mission would help them get valuation. that didn't happen the fact they were spec when everybody hated speck specs is one of the main reason the stock got clobbered. the guide for first and second quarter wasn't great but i think what people are saying, wait a second, they just
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put a bit of a for sale sign on their shingle and they're open for business karen mentioned this on the call i caught it when they talked about it this could become an m & a play. data is the new oil. tim talks about that all the time in an environment in what they're working on is seemingly front and center in everybody's lexicon, i think palantir for the first time in a long time is actually tradeable, and you can be long this name for the next couple of weeks for sure >> what kind of company, guy, do you think would buy palantir a defense company? >> well, that's interesting, right? i mean, it would make perfect sense for a defense company, without question you bring in -- although i don't know what the s.e.c. or some of those agencies would think about it, but this would make perfect sense for a defense company outwout question given the data they have and given their access to so many of these military and government contracts they have >> well, let's be clear. this still trades at a pretty fat multiple of sales, about
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seven times. the profitability they speak of is not gap you know what i mean it's adjusted. so this company has been around a long time. they've never been profitable on a gap basis and trades at a fat multiple you look at the revenue expectations for growth, about 20% revenue grower i think it's becoming a hard takeover candidate for a whole host of different companies that don't have the sort of currency that could absorb that kind of valuation. >> yeah, what did you think of it when you heard that they received acquisition interest? >> it's odd. why would they say that, right >> yeah. >> why say it if you don't want to be acquired why say it and invite any interest, right? or maybe they're going to miss in the next quarter, and let's sort of don't look there, let's look over here, we're a potential m&a target i don't know >> we'll seattle tomorrow's cpr print, bracing for the latest information. our next guest has a stark warning ahead of the report.
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why michael schumacher says the fed otis n your friends. he joins us next to lay out his take don't go anywhere. "fast money" is back in two. have a nice day. but to deliver powerful insights that are on target you need more than technology. you need cdw. we can help transform and manage your it environment with a dell technology solution, so you can use your data to innovate. wooh pizza is here! i'm still gonna eat it. me too. tip please. dell technologies makes data driven insights possible. cdw makes it powerful.
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tomorrow's cpr report with the dow jumping 377 points the s&p climbing more than a percent and the nasdaq leading the gains of nearly a percent and a half and snapping a three-day losing streak. meantime, the yield on the two-year hitting its highest level since november the spread with the ten-year widening back to more than 80 basis points what did you make of this all, dan? >> warning bells are screaming in silence you have rates going up, okay. so you have rates. you crude going up you have the dollar going up and the stock is going up. and you also have inflation readings going up. literally, this market, you know, is like whistling -- in my opinion, past the graveyard here because if we have a hot print tomorrow, we're literally down 2% in a straight line. and then i think the rally >> i don't know. i mean we have had print >> the first print >> on the labor numbers, a gigantic payroll print i agree with you i think the market isn't responding the way we expect it
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to but it's like they're saying all right, no recession. so the fed, they've done most of their job. there won't be a recession, and that's good for stocks that's to me the way the market is interpreting it or the number is cooler, okay, good now i can ease >> my point is at the lows in october, and at the lows in december, the consensus was very clearly that we're going have a recession, right, and now that's just shifted okay so we're not having a recession anymore. i don't know if you got that memo we're not having a recession and that's the thing that makes me nervous right here about where we are with the s&p. and i think question become back at 3800 very quickly wells fargo is warning investors the fed is not your friend ahead of tomorrow's data. michael schumacher is head of macro security in what what iway? higher for longer? >> higher for longer, that's right, melissa i don't think about the history over the last 15 years when ever there is weaknesses, the fed rises to the rescue. not this time. the fed cares about inflation, and that's just about it so the idea of lots of easing, forget it. >> so tomorrow, what should we
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be looking for walk through a scenario in which there is upsides to stocks in boast scenarios? the market has it in its brain that there is going to be no recession or there is going to be a soft landing. you know what? that's good enough for equities at this point. >> it seems odd, though. if there truly is no recession, and i'm schedule tick, but if that's the case, why is the bond pricing so much, much easing there should probably be less easing price and if that case, higher yields. that doesn't sound good to stock, to me at least any way. >> could it be possible, though, michael, that the fed -- when you take a look at the fed futures curve, that it's pricing in easing, but maybe that's a reflection of inflation coming down a lot >> sure. inflation can come off a fair bit. but we still don't know what the destination. it makes a big difference to the fed if it's 3, 3.25, 2.75. right now it's running about 4%
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plus that's too high for the fed. we can get a huge number tomorrow that's a bad result. >> it's all about legacy too arthur burns was probably a brilliant economist, a great individual he has become the punch line to a lot of inflation jokes and i don't think jerome powell wants to be this general reaction ace arthur burns. i think part of it is about his legacy, and he doesn't want to be the guy that makes the same mistakes that were made almost 50 years ago >> absolutely. you think about powell when he walks down that hall at the fed. he says burns, i can't be that guy. i don't want to be number two. i don't want to be number three. i want to make sure there is a big gap between my legacy and that of burns. and that gives powell the incentive to really try to squelch inflation, keep policy rates high for quite a while longer than the market anticipates. so i think that's the danger right now both for bonds and for stock, frankly >> so, michael, the fed is known for taking too long to act and as you said, acting for too
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long is there a chance with this very political year that we are moving into, that we're always into with employment that chair powell doesn't want to keep his foot on the gas as long as you think he would and we don't need a lot of cuts. we just need a leveling off of the heights. any shot of that >> there is a chance i think the big risk there for chair powell is that he loses control of the committee so a number of folks in the committee lean very dovish if the economy does look a bit weaker, if the jobs picture does darken a fair bit, they make talk to jay powell and say look, we can't go along with the traditional rate hikes we probably need a cut fairly soon he might lose that argument. i think that's the biggest risk for him with respect to his legacy >> michael, it's karen so let me ask. the market seems to want to interpret inch as a positive, but is there anything they can say that you would actually
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think was also a positive? >> the big positive for us right now frankly is going to be in the data it's not so much what the fed says it's what the market delivers data wise. so if the economy does seem to be cooling a little bit, if cpr print somewhat low tomorrow, we have a call for 0.3 on core. sarah house has done a great job there. if that materializes, that's the best news the economy and the markets can have so it's less about the fed talk, much more about the data at this point. >> michael, great to have you with us. thank you. >> thank you >> michael schumacher of wells fargo. >> i think there was an interesting article in the journal this morning talking about china and what -- don't hold your breath waiting for them to reflate the global economy. i thought one of the interesting points there is this is going to be a consumption story over the next year or so as our economy is slowing when you think about the effects of that, if they have the demand for inflationary input, energy and industrial commodities, that could be inflationary over here. we have also unflemployment at 3
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year lows. we're starting to see some layoffs, but it hasn't made its way through our economy really this could be like the perfect storm of stagflation and it's not fearmongering this is kind of picking it out partially because the consensus has shifted so dramatically, so quickly, and the markets don't really seem to care about the data michael just made a lot of good points if we start to see weakening data, that might give the fed a little more room to say we're not going to be here as high as long as you might think. but the market's not pricing that in right now. and that's the thing that concerns me. >> guy, i thought it was interesting the question about legacy, the notion that he is thinking about his legacy. he doesn't want to be, to quote david over at jefferies, he doesn't welcome back to be in the hell where arthur burns resides. he wants to be in the heaven where paul volcker resides when it comes to the fed luminaries, et cetera. but there is a back stop, isn't there? he is thinking about his legacy, he also doesn't want to be the
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guy to tip the economy into such a deep recession or tip the markets into a deep bear market, right? it goes both ways. >> listen, without question. i'm sure -- and you'll make fun of my age, but i guarantee there are a lot of people hating on paul volcker at the time, but history has treated him extraordinarily well if we had to endure some short-term pain on the way to being basically, trying to at least be responsible once again and be it so as it may, history has treated him extraordinarily kindly i can't speak for jerome powell, clearly, but i think you would much rather endure the short-term pain, the person that for a brief period of time tipped us into a slowdown than be the person that had us in this quagmire of inflation because he didn't have the wherewithal to fight the good fight. and, again, arthur burns, who i never met, obviously, i'm sure shea lovely guy. the only people remember him is because he failed in the 19 combatting inflation coming up, bear bnb?
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welcome back to "fast money. we've got a huge slate of earnings still to come this week, including a jam-packed day tomorrow with coca-cola, marriott, airbnb all on deck, despite rallying today, one of these names is seeing bearish action among options traders mike khouw has the action. mike >> we're looking at airbnb, which traded well over two times the daily options volume right now the options market implying a move of over 9% by the end of the week. put significantly outpacing calls, 6 to 1, the busiest with
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the fed par putts with just over a dollar we also saw a big bloc of the april 105s, call, betting the stock will fall after earnings. >> guy, wasn't this one of your an acronyms over the past decade or so? >> i think it was in the first an acronym now that you say it, it was the second one, right? the dawn trade was the airbnb. it was the hope trade first. >> and airbnb was in the second one. and actually, for a little while there, like most things in my life, i was looking like a genius, only to come back down to earth, like many of the balloons that we've been watching recently. so the stock had trouble at 125 a number of times since last summer i think mike is on to something here >> there is one balloon, and there are other flying objects, guy, just to be clear. mike, thank you. mike khouw for more "options action," be sure to tune in to the full show friday at 5:30 p.m. eastern time coming up, manhattan's money
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problem. companies' work-from-home policies is costing the big 'sbiiollns it having a big impact on real estate we have the story when "fast money" returns hi, i'm katie. i live in flagstaff, arizona. i'm an older student. i'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. i do a lot of hiking and kayaking. i needed something to help me gain clarity. so i was in the pharmacy and i saw a display of prevagen and i asked the pharmacist about it. i started taking prevagen
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welcome back to "fast money. big problems for big cities. for boston properties, jbg seeing massive losses as return to work hasn't quite materialized, costing manhattan more than $12 billion a year are these post pandemic problems here to stay let's bring in alexander goldfarb, an list at piper sandler. great to have you with us. mondays and fridays, there is no traffic here i can speak personally it takes me 15 minutes to get to the studio and 15 minutes to get back tuesdays through thursdays is a different story. this is a trend that has lasted much longer than we all thought. how is this actually impacting, though, leasing, et cetera >> well, first of all, thank you, melissa, for having me on you know, here at piper sandler, on the reit side, we've been early to talking about the theme that you're bringing up, which is i don't think early on in the pandemic people really thought
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that for every day people work at home, that's a 20% hit to midtown gdp. no different if you go to san francisco, boston, l.a., wherever you are, it's a 20% hit. it's not just the transit systems. it's the bodegas, the coffee carts on the corner, the restaurants, the bars, it's inter everything it's a real issue. what's interesting, if you look at office utilization, it's back around 60% in new york it's lower, like 30, 35% out west a bit better in boston but on the other side, you have the federal government that is still, most of their federal employees are working from home in d.c so it's a mixed picture all around ironically, new york is sort of leading. but either way, unfortunately, because of onerous covid lockdown policies that were extended in the big cities, plus quality of life issues, a lot of people discovered that you know what working from home, coming into
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the city only a few days a week is a much better way to live and i think a lot of companies realize that it's an easy perk togive to people, and especially for the employees that know who are working hard, it's something that they can tolerate so they try to have that tuesday to thursday shift. and you're right monday and friday becomes sort of, you know, definitely a lot lighter certainly friday for sure has become a lot light attorney commuting to work side. >> is this all reflected in these reits, though that specialize in heavy presence in the big cities >> it is in the sense that all the management routines have been very up-front we just got over a week of earnings from the different companies, whether it's sl green boston properties, some of the west coast names like hudson pacific or douglas emmett. vornado just reported tonight. i haven't had a chance to go through it all these companies are talking about on one hand, there is a lot of leasing going on. on the other hand, the office markets are soft
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so let's take sl green, for example. they've really built around the grand central submarket. so a 1 vanderbilt, their new skyscraper next to grand central, it's a complete success. one madison, they've already had a significant amount of preleasing done, including ibm, franklin templeton on the flip side, if you're a generic office building or you're an office landlord out west, it's really tough. right now would i want to be a landlord in lower manhattan or up at 59th and lex probably not would it be scared if i'm a landlord around grand central? i'm not worried at all so it's really a bifurcated market and what you're seeing and boston properties has spoken about this, where the top tier properties are leasing and continuing to grow share the generic and more pedestrian assets, they're losing and unfortunately, there are two ways in life to spend a lot of money or to lose money, i should say. one is to own a boat really expensive the other way is office buildings. they require a lot of cap ex
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that's what these companies are talking about. that's why the top tier assets are winning the day because they have the amenities, the proximity and the tenants want. >> alexander, thank you so much for your time. we'll have to have you back. >> no problem. >> deswhat's the trade on this,f anything >> a couple years ago there -- want to apply to be on cnbc's 50 list scan this code or go to 50 nominations to see if your company is eligible and apply today. to design solutions to help you manage payroll, benefits, and hr today, so you can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another, yeah, yeah ♪ ♪♪ hey dad, i'm almost out. i got you. any questions, chris? all good, thanks maura! healthier is managing all your family's prescriptions in one app.
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now we weren't censored. >> steve just went crazy >> oh, sorry so a couple of years ago, retail space was thought to be going out of business, and everyone feared that. now the new fear is that office space is going to be going out of business. i don't think it's going to be going out of business, but the problem is work from home, as alex pointed out and that is not going away. >> right. >> any time soon so you have a real problem with office space >> yeah, says the man who is working from home. guy adami, final trade >> steve was channeling his inner travis kelce nlc. >> steve >> alphabet against that 50-day. use that as your barometer >> chairwoman?
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>> yes fun day on our new set mine is bank of america. i think we have an interview tomorrow with ryan moynihan in the morning? >> yep dan? >> i bought leavyft. i went dumpster diving >> thanks for watching ♪ ♪ good evening and welcome to this cnbc special "taking stock. jim cramer has the night off what a difference a day makes. stocks surging coming off the worst weekly decline for the s&p 500 and nasdaq in two months microsoft, the biggest driver for the dow surging 3 plus percent continuing its rally since announcing the bing search engine with chat, gpt as a.i. wars heat
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