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tv   Power Lunch  CNBC  February 22, 2023 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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january meeting of the federal reserve open market committee, a meeting at which the fed raised interest rates by a relatively modest quarter of a point. there's another meeting coming up in a couple of weeks. we will see what happens then. right now the dow is higher by 68 points. let's go now to steve liesman in washington with the fed minutes steve. >> almost all participant at the last january meeting for the federal reserve agreed on the 25 basis-point rate hike. ongoing rate increases were seen as appropriate by all members of the participants in the federal market committee 25 basis point hikes were seen as allowing the fed to assess the economy and the impact of rate hikes as they went along. however, a few wanted to raise by 50 basis points in common fedspeak, a few is more than two. so there may be be another person or appears to be another person out there other than the two of whom we know, bullard and mester, who wanted to go 50. they wanted to go 50 because they wanted to bring the federal
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reserve closer more quickly to the target where they were trying to get to several saw risk to the outlook as becoming more balanced. participants supported maintaining a restrictive policy stance until enflation was clearly on a path toward their 2% target. inflation was seen as unacceptably high. substantially more evidence was needed for confidence the inflation was on a downward path it was important for financial conditions to reflect policy restraint from the fed they did see more financial conditions tightening in 20 than they hadn't seen in 2022 upside risk was seen to inflation but a few saw the risk as more balanced economic risks, however, were to the down side and gdp was expected to slow further in 2023 worth mentioning at this point a little asterisk all of this came before the be big jobs report and the retail sales report and the stickier inflation numbers he we had p. this is before those numbers a period of below trend growth was seen needed in order to
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bring supply and demand back into balance finally, there was an elevated chance of recession seen in 2023, although some said that the china reopening and euro area -- the euro area growth which had been better than expected could help u.s. demand. kelly? >> so many key points there, steve, thank you stick around, actually let's get some more reaction here bringing in diane swann, chief economist at kpmg. diane, it's great to see you probably the most important thing to highlight is in the language steve gave us he used the word "a few" to describe those who wanted bigger rate hikes. so the upgrade, the more hawkish we would have been if we used some and we didn't get there. that said, the market has still turned negative. so that tells us there's not as much in the tone here as maybe the doves were hoping for. >> exactly and i think, you know, we did see after this we know as steve already pointed out mester and bullard had said they wanted 50 basis point hikes. there was more than just them. i would expect waller to be on
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that list as well. but i think what's really important is what's happened since then and how do we interpret where they were thinking about things then vs. where they are today and clearly the biggest issue steve highlighted is the trajectory on inflation has proven stick yipper and growth has come in much stronger than they were expected they were looking for this nice sort of cushy soft landing with the economy slowing down below trend and we've gotten the exact opposite in the data so far. and that's really going to give an upper hand to those people who were hoping to go that 50 basis points at the meeting in march. >> and do you suspect that this increases the likelihood that it's going to be a half-point rise in march? and what does that say about either the consistency of fed policy or about the fed itself in other words, does it reinforce confidence does it cause concern about confidence in the fed, that
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investors should have? >> it's aw great question. one because of the data we've gotten and the fed says it's data driven. the data's changed so they're responding to the change in the data and that is now it's confirmed that instead of being able to go slowly they have to go a little more aggressively. and frankly to keep financial conditions tight and to keep from getting this sort of lost in translation powell stayed to the script but you can see sort of his tenor of his comments were a little less. we saw that rally during his press conference where financial conditions actually eased. the fed can't afford that now. the stakes are much higher than they were when they had this meeting. you know why they felt confident then the data's changed they're responding to it that's cred ebel >> you know, we're fortunate, steve, that we will get another jobs report. so there's been a lot of questions about the january data and whether it's a head fake on warmer weather or not. and like you said, you had the nominal spending stuff
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yesterday. maybe it's not my point is february being a shorter month the meeting is later in march than you would think. it's march 21 and 22 we're going to get the jobs report obviously ism. we might get inflation numbers, might even get retail sales numbers before then. they will have a chance hopefully if they going to overreact not to do so in response to just one month's data >> yeah, and i'm going to disagree with diane with the proviso saying it's perfectly plausible. i'm going to throw out that i think the default is 25 basis points and i still think it's 25 basis points and i have a little bit of backup when i look at the market percentage probability of a 25, which is still after we now know the word is a few, it's still 85%. i'm backed up by that. and i think i need to throw out here the question, kelly, start thinking myself is what would it teak to jar the majority of the opinion to go from a few to many
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to most to all to a 50 basis point hike and i think it would be another outsize inflation report maybe or maybe not another outsize job report but if it came with strong wage gains again perhaps we'd be back on the road to 50. i am going to say right now i still think it's a 25 because i think that's the default of the federal reserve. when i read these minutes i say what do we want to do? we want to move by 25s and assess the outcome of our prior hikes here i still think that's where the fed is right now >> would you address kind of -- i want to go back to diane and get your reaction. i saw, diane, you were actually nodding at a lot of what steve was saying but let me come back to what i asked diane and let me come back to steve if the fed changes course and goes a half point at the next meeting, what does it say about the fed's control over the data or control over the economy?
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guz it say they don't have the grip they thought they had to turn around that quickly >> i actually think what it i would say is the fed is going to do what it would call opportunistic disinflation and i think they're going to use the strength in the economy to try to wring more inflation out of the economy more quickly than they otherwise would because they feel they have a little more leeway if the unemployment rate remains down, if economic activity remains strong. they're looking at these numbers, tyler, with a completely different attitude than when he we look at it we look at it and say oh, the economy is too strong, that means that the fed has to do more they say okay, the economy is strong that means we can do more and use this opportunity for more disinflation in the economy. >> just want to mention the market here, which diane now is up 94. a little bit more consistent with what we mentioned earlier about this language, that we didn't get to some wanted to go 50 but to steve's point, diane, we probably would have been at some after the data and that's why i think it's going to be so important to see what happens as those february numbers start to
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come in. >> exactly and what you pointed out was what exactly we're looking at is i actually think there's a couple of things that would push them toward 50, and i think i agree with steve in terms of what their default is and what it was going into that meeting i think it's shifting and i am expecting to get some stronger data and when we go into that march meeting they're also going to be doing their trajectory for rate hikes and it's very likely i think we get a much higher trajectory on rate hikes than we got in december, which means we already know the terminal rate's going to be higher than 5 1/4 percent. if it goes to 5 3/4 percent, going a quarter point at every meeting doesn't make as much sense. and i think what we need to see is how many people are on the high end of those rate hikes and the summary of economic projections that the fed produces my guess, we had eight in december up from six previously. we've been chasing those higher rates. we also lost a big moderating force. and steve, you know this as well
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as i vice chair leal brainard was a moderating force in terms of rate hikes and i think this meeting in march with what i think will be still strong data i do think some of the strength is overstated in january and we know what's a head fake but the season aels and what we're seeing coming in in february, think it's still going to be pretty strong, and that's going to give them this cushion exactly as you laid it out, responding to a stronger economy. zmaz going to be appropriate for them to go a half because if they really ratchet up their trajectory going a quarter point isn't -- >> yeah, guys, i wantto make one quick point, which is this is like more pressure coming into a balloon right now that pressure is be being relieved by the market upping the odds of a june rate hike another 25. entire le possible what diane is saying that that pressure gets relieved by a 50 m n. march. >> ten-year yield about 3.91 >> final comment
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dealer's choice. diane, we'll give it to you really quick >> the bottom line is the fed is data dependent the fed is going to respond as they see the data come in. we've got less dove voices, less of a strong dove influence at the moment on the fed. and i think that's going to make i adifference and push them to a half percent in march with what i think will still be strong data in february we might get weaker data in march but that doesn't show up until may. >> thank you both. we really appreciate it. diane swonk joining us today along with our very own steve liesman. >> thanks, folks news alert now on the supreme court hearing on section 230, which has potentially revolutionary implications for the internet as we know it eamon javers with the details. hi, eamon. >> hi, tyler that's right at issue today before the supreme court was the question of whether or not twitter can be held liable for aiding and abetting isis under the anti-terrorism act because some members of isis were able to use twitter to recruit and
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fund-raise for their enterprise and because some people were killed in isis terrorist attacks. that was the question that the court was grappling with today, and the court justices seemed to really try to get their arms around what the implications would be of a decision here for all kinds of other businesses, whether it's banks, whether it's gun dealers, whether it's telephone companies, all the rest who might be implicated in a similar type of situation in which isis or another terrorist group is able to use general services that are offered broadly to everybody in order to commit a terrorist attack. now, the lawyer for twitter made the case this way. he said, "ultimately, the court here some conclude that the failure to not do more to remove terrorist content does not amount to the knowing provision of substantial assistance to isis and therefore this case should go away." and i think you'd have to say, tyler, that ultimately twitter today had a worse day in court
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than youtube and google did yesterday under that section 230 situation that you mentioned a separate but related case yesterday. i think google and youtube fared better, the justices a little bit more skeptical here today of youtube but at the end of the day the victims in both of these cases are going to have a long way to go to prove that the provision of these kinds of general services to everybody ultimately amounts to aiding and abetting a terrorist organization, guys >> it really -- if i boil it down to the kernel, i guess i see it this way. the question is whether an internet company, a platform, is responsible legally for the content that is generated by a third party that they, quote, publish on their platform. >> right yep. and that's the question under section 230 of the communications decency act that's the 1996 law. written many eons ago in
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internet time. but that provision of the law in 1996 said that ultimately these internet companies can't be held liable for things that third-party people post on their platforms. that's the third-party person's responsibility, not twitter or google or facebook or any of the others the issue today was interesting because it was about the anti-terrorism act so slightly different legal ground similar set of victims, though people who've been killed or harmed in terrorist attacks arguing that because these companies provided services to the isis group in this case that that provided the benefit to isis, helped them recruelty, helped them fund-raise and therefore there's some liability there. the justices seemed a little skeptical of that argument but ultimately they're going to have their day in court and we'll see where the supreme court comes down decision not expected until later in this term of the supreme court. >> fascinating that you said, and i hadn't thought of it, but it's quite clearly the case, the implications here could extend to businesses in completely
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unrelated fields like a gun manufacturer or a gun dealer a pharmacy that sells a harmful drug that was not manufactured by that pharmacy but by a third party. it's a fascinating case in front of the supreme court eamon javers, thank you. coming up, shares of zip recruiter, a really tough day here losing a quarter of their value. the hiring slowdown will weigh on its business. so says the company. and we will talk to that company's ceo about it we'll get his take on the pushback at amazon for return to office ceo andy jassy wants workers back in the office but that plan is facing a lot of resistance "power lunch" will be right back for businesses of all sizes, there are a lot of choices when it comes to your internet and technology needs. when you choose comcast business internet, you choose the largest, fastest reliable network. you choose advanced security for total peace of mind. and you choose a next generation 10g network
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welcome back to "power lunch," everybody. shares of the online hiring platform zip recruiter down nearly 25% today after reporting a weak outlook the company citing, quote, a softening hiring environment" in its latest quarterly report that came out after the bell. here with our "power lunch" exclusive is ian segal, ceo and co-founder of zip recruiter. thank you for coming on on this, which is not the easiest of days it's easy to come on when the days are fun and there are kittens and cupcakes everywhere. that's not the case today. i want to look at your forecast for this quarter and going forward, which you lowered
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markedly, which may indeed explain in large measure why the stock is down as much as it is today. as you lower your forecast for this quarter and the future, what are you truly saying about the state of the job market and the state of the economy >> well, it's very clear to us, and we definitely get an early indication probably before the rest of the economy does as to what's going on in the labor market, and what we see is a broad-based macroeconomic-driven slowdown in hiring and this is corroborated by other companies at our scale and our space that are sending the same message this is -- >> how do you -- finish your thought, go ahead, please. >> i was going to say it's particularly cute among smvs bbu enterprise are slowing down their hiring as well >> small and medium businesses smbs how do you square that with the jobs report from squan was january an aberration?
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an outlier a black swan what >> well, i think both things can be true as january is looking at people who were starting their jobs and the number of jobs that were live in that month. and i think the reality is right now that there is a very large delta and it is growing between open jobs that are posted and open jobs that employers are willing to pay to recruit for. we're very much seeing a posture amongst the employers in america of all sizes across all job categories of what i would describe as wait and see i think that with a tip of the cap to the fed that the work they have done raising interest rates is having exactly the desired effect that they were looking for. and so i just think there's a much lower level of certainty amongst employers who are still experiencing robust sales within their businesses but they're just not sure that in this climate this is the right time to add more staff. >> the bulls would argue, ian, that this is fine, even healthy and that maybe we can sustain a
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much more modest level of job growth i don't know if you guys have been through different cycles in terms of the business. but when you see hiring slow like it is slowing right now, what usually happens next? >> well, what you would expect to see if it is truly macroeconomic driven is that as there are less jobs posted and also a lower appetite amongst employers to close when they do find a candidate they like, that you would see the ranks of job he can sooers swell. and that is exactly what we're seeing so there has been a sizable spike in job seeker activity and the engagement levels we're seeing from job seekers in january that exactly fits the pattern of a macroeconomic-driven downturn. and i think the golden age for job seekers is coming to an end. so for the last three years it has been an unprecedented time for job seekers to make a number of demands on employers. but we're definitely seeing a rebalancing of the labor market
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where the leverage is becoming equalized. i won't say it's tipped all the way in favor of employers yet but it is moving in their direction. >> i think the sound bite of the day is the one you just said there. the golden age for job seekers is coming to an end. let me -- two quick questions. first very quick, let me make sure i understood you. you're seeing lots of jobs posted but you are seeing less willingness among employers to pay to recruit did i understand correctly >> yeah, that's correct. there seems to be a gap. and again, this is something that's corroborated by not just zip recruiter but by other sites in our space that are noting the same gap between the number of open jobs that are currently posted that seem to be available vs. those that employers are actively recruit forget and putting their dollars behind to try and attract candidates we're seeing that shortfall. i will say this, though. ziprecruiter's a 90% gross margin business. even though we were forced to take our top line revenue guidance down we actually raised our ebidta guidance from 20% to
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24%. and i think we're going to weather this period just fine. this is one of those times where it's very cyclical, the labor market and it's moving unfortunately downwards. but we'll see what happens over the rest of the year and see if we don't get some sort of uptick later on >> wish we could talk longer but we've run out of time here hope to have you back soon ian siegel, thank you very much, we appreciate it all righty >> can't overlook the significance -- >> i wanted to ask whether his particular universe is interesting because it's more high-tech where they've had a lot of layoffs >> and we know he's small business i mean, that's been the sort of strength for this whole expansion, the source of a lot of job growth, and the fact that's where we're seeing -- i was going to ask him what kinds of small business. >> interesting and again, we appreciate him coming on on a tough day >> very much so. >> all righty. >> up next, we'll talk about bonds on the move with some t bills paying massive yields. we'll go to the pits in chicago check in with rec santelli
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and as we go to break here's a look at shares of fiverr this is the gig economy stock. beating earnings surging 18% right now. it's up 50% for the year, although still down that much from the hhsig again, fiverr. we're back after this. what do you mean? these straps are mind-blowing! they collect hundreds of data points like hrv and rem sleep, so you know all you need for recovery. and you are? i'm an investor...in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to... nasdaq 100 innovations like... wearable training optimization tech. uh, how long are you... i'm done. i'm okay.
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welcome back to "power lunch," everybody. markets reacting to what we heard in those fed minutes released at the top of the hour. let's ge to rick santelli in chicago to see what the bond traders are saying hey, rick. >> hi, tyler indeed if you look at a two-year note right now even though yields moved up just a bit since the minutes were released we're still at a double top meaning we've settled at 4.72 1/2 yesterday, we settle at 4.72 1/2 in october, november and that double top is resistance and if you look at ten years we're at 3.42 when the fed raised 25 base' points at the meeting we just read the minutes to really climbed since then. and the vix has dropped since the minutes were released. that's significant why? because it was at a seven-week high prior that's where it closed yesterday. dave, you have a quick second here >> yeah, what's up >> we had the minutes today. he didn't see any big changes.
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what did you see in the marketplace? >> not very much so. the zero day vol, that's a big deal right now everything expiring today. >> zero day -- >> zero day expiration, that's a big deal right now >> eph day you have options go off. >> correct and the ones expiring today at 3:00, everything -- yes. >> you were telling me before we went on air that there was substantial open interest in that one-day option. >> correct even more than just in the next couple days. a lot had to do with this number people want the protection when the fed speaks >> now, are we seeing any ramp up in volatility in front of tomorrow's second look at fourth quarter gdp? >> not much. it's kind of bottomed out here i wouldn't say ramped up it doesn't seem to be that big of a draw right now. >> now, when i look at what's going on with the equities, it reminds me of the minutes. yes, the s&ps are up but they're vacillating a bit. i don't see any big numbers. does that make sense to you considering what you've read on the minutes thus far >> it does we're just oscillating back and forth. they're just waiting for the next new news. >> waiting for the next new news
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next time i come back we're going to use some fancy terms like charm and vana to describe options. you're not going to believe some of the new jargon that's out there. kelly, tyler bax to you. >> new jargon? oh, my gosh. rick, thank you. energy the worst performing sector oil down 2%. pippa stevens. >> no new jargon here. oil is lower on fears the fed tightening will hit demand nat gas, though, up by more than 5% some of that is thanks to the contract contract expiration on friday we also this h. freeport lng say yesterday they have gotten complete regulatory approval to restart xheshlg operations at their texas facility which of course has been a big overhang on the market. >> we went under 2 last night. >> we did. this morning we got below that $2 and then we saw that bounce it's probably because of this contract expiration but i've seen a lot of different opinions about is the low in. people don't want to seem to want to make bets. but one thing i did want to focus on today is the refiners who we don't talk a whole lot
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about them and last year we had so much focus on exxon and chevron with their record years but the refiners also had record years and they're basically printing money and last year they wanted to take advantage of the strong product pricing so they ran flat out. utilization was about 95%. so things like maintenance was delayed. so we heard from the refiners that q1 utilization will be closer to the mid 80 level so what does that mean that means that product prices will stay higher so things like gasoline, jet fuel, diesel probably higher >> for how long? i mean, at some point do they have to succumb? >> well, the crack spread is looking healthy for the refiners last year it was about $70 at a record it's come down a lot since then. right now it's sitting at 40 bucks. not that long ago getting $8 or $10 on your spreads was considered healthy it's still elevated signaling that perhaps -- >> cue the investigations. where's congress >> that gas prices could be higher >> don't you think they're going to be like come on -- >> well, it's a tight spot to be
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in because the refiners say utilization has come down. no one's opening a new refinery in the u.s we do have the beaumont 250,000 products coming on later today some refiners abroad but in the u.s. no one wants to spend billions of dollars in an industry they say is -- >> going away. yeah pippa stevens. let's get to bertha coombs for the cnbc news update befrtha? >> hi, kelly good afternoon here's what's happening. sioux falls, south dakota is just one of the upper midwest cities getting hit by heavy snow today as a major winter storm moves across the country more than 1300 u.s. flights have been canceled so far today and here's a look at just how dangerous it can be in some areas. the wyoming highway patrol released this video of what it calls a recent incident. a trooper narrowly avoided a semi truck that lost control on an icy road. the officials are asking everyone to slow down when the weather is bad
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and a cat with gang tattoos that was found wandering inside a mexican prison is looking for a new home a local pet rescue and adoption shelter says the cat is now healthy and ready to be adopted. it looks like there is no shortage of people who want to provide that new home. anyone interested can fill out a form online, and a special council of city officials in juarez will decide who gets to adopt. that's one tough kitty >> a tatted cat. bertha, thank you. ahead on "power lunch," families getting reunited the airline changing a long-standing policy regarding seat selection costs the details when "power lunch" returns. ♪ ♪ luxury exemplified. innovation electrified. with apple music seamlessly integrated.
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markets have been reacting to fears of higher interest rates. but our next guest thinks lower earnings are the beggest concern. let's bring in jim tierney, cio of u.s. concentrated growth at alliance bernstein jim, welcome good to have you with us what are you seeing in the earnings numbers that give you pause? >> we're hearing a lot from consumer companies over the last couple days, and home depot is
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talking about flat comps next year and saw traffic down 6%. that's a deceleration. we're hearing from walmart, talking about consumers only buying non-discretionary items and wealthier consumers coming into the store and then you had tjx today talking about a big increase in shrink, which is code word for theft. so if we're in this hot economy, why are people stealing more stuff? to me the consumer's under real pressure that's going to allow the fed to take their foot off the gas. but then it all gets down to as you said what are the earnings company by company >> and the companies you just mentioned there, notably, are consumer-oriented, consumer-facing companies. do you see the same kind of earnings pressure affecting other companies, let's say, the high-tech companies that sell to enterprises or b to b companies? >> quite frankly the company side or the corporate side of it started about six months ago in
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terms of layoffs, travel restrictions, hiring restr restrictions so i think it's coming from both sides. the data we're seeing, and we saw housing data yesterday where u.s. home prices are down 13% from the peak. but the cpe pcpi data is still showing increases in shelter i think things are going to roll over, give the fed the chance to pause. and again, that really gets down to stock picking and that's what we think we can do well and a battle we can win. >> let's not go back and forth too much about this pause, jim, because people are still trying to figure out what the minutes are all about, why the dow's down now your stock picks include zoetis. we just showed the tattooed cat. charles schwab n nike we haven't heard a lot about nike in particular why these in particular? >> i've looking for companies that have real secular growth, have some level of pricing power and inelastic demand and i think all three of those companies fit into that bucket
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with zoetis you're not going to skip giving your dog or cat medicine each spring for heart worm and ticks and so forth. with schwab you're not going to pull your money out of the market just because markets are a little bit weak. and with nike your kids need new sneakers when they get holes in them we also see nike as a real china reopening play they've recovered in that market and really nice strength we're really excited about all three names. >> on zoetis i'm told they might actually have a bigger livestock business than kind of domestic dogs and cats per se but maybe that's neither here nor there. what would you do, jim, if you fought they really are going to take rates to 5 or what bullard wants, 5 1/2%? >> i don't think 5 is a problem. we're almost there 5 1/2 would be a little more worrisome. but inasmuch as you own schwab or you have the opportunity to think about schwab, higher rates are better for them given the
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returns on cash. there are various ways to play this but i think we're kind of there in the interest rate journey and it's all going to start revolving around how strong are earnings for the rest of the year >> jim, thanks for your time today. good to see you. jim tierney. >> thank you >> after the break, changing ev currents jeep maker stellantis outlining a shift to the ev space. wall street also loves the established automakers making that dchange but names like lucid are struggling in february cnbc is celebrating black heritage through the stories of some of our teammates, contributors and leaders in business. here is arnold j. companies and b.e.t. founder ronald l. johnson. >> one thing that is in my opinion negatively impacting the black community is that there's a tendency to wait on other people to give you a path to
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success. i think the black community needs to say we stand on our own. don't ever let anybody tell you can't be successful as a black person your future is going to be based on who you are, what you believe in, and how much are you willing to commit yourself to being successful lomita feed is 101 years old this year and counting. i'm bill lockwood, current caretaker and owner. when covid hit, we had some challenges like a lot of businesses did. i heard about the payroll tax refund, it allowed us to keep the amount of people that we needed and the people that have been here taking care of us. see if your business may qualify. go to getrefunds.com. 92% still active?
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seems high. seriously? it's just a bike. wait. they make a treadmill with an intuitive speed knob? yeah. want to try? 92% stick with it, so can you. start a 30-day home trial today. terms apply.
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welcome back it's time for today's three-stock lunch and we're trading three big movers as the averages come off their worst day of the year. palo alto was up double digits on its third consecutive quarter of profitability after years of losses wing stop we talked to the ceo last hour. also up big on strong earnings and those falling chicken prices and cheniere, the lng stock still near all-time highs even though nat gas prices have plunged to their he lowest levels in more than two years. let's bring in scott nations nations index president and cio. scott, palo alto, cybersecurity, are you a buyer? >> i am absolutely a buyer i just love this space i think this is the one part of tech that's going to avoid belt
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tightening and let's face it, cybersecurity is an existential threat for every big company out there. you have to be really brave if you're the cio who wants to skimp on cybersecurity spending. and for palo alto networks their ability to marry cybersecurity and ai is both really sexy, it's going to be lucrative, last time i looked up 11 points, 7% on the day, that's because eps came in at a dollar five vs. 78 cents. forward p/e of 44 means it's not cheap but expectations for growth for the next few years come in at 20% a year. you're likely to get the growth you're paying for. >> let's talk about a company that's about as far away from cyberskoo urt and ai as i can imagine. that would be wingstop, the chicken wing seller. what do you think? >> i'm a seller. it's up nearly 10% this year congratulations on 19 straight years of increasing same-store
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sales. but much of the profitability is because chicken prices are falling and that's not going to continue with the forward p/e in the triple digits they're going to have to execute perfectly. there's no room for error whatsoever and there's going to be a ton of competition in the chicken space. i think in order to grow that much they're going to have to clutter their menu we've seen what that does to some other fast food names it really impacts the customer experience listen, i love wings and a cold beer as much as anybody but i'm cold on wingstop >> a lot of people allergic to that valuation let's turn now, even a tougher pivot, to cheniere energy. and it's surprising to me that these stocks broadly speaking have held up so well but what do you see? >> i agree i would be a buyer on dips here of cheniere. natural gas futures traded below $2 today first time in a long time.
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even though some people think they're coming for our cooktops, i do think that i want to be a buyer on dips because nat gas is one of the fuels of the future and they're not just producers they also have an infrastructure business that will cushion some of the volatility forward p/e of just 7 means it's a bargain. i mentioned volatility we can use that to our advantage. and so i would put limit orders to buy a really good company in a really good space, limit orders below where the market's trading now, and take advantage of some of that volatility because nat gas and the companies involved, just sickening volatility sometimes well, let's use that to our advantage and buy cheap on a big dip. >> interesting take, scott thanks so much for your time it's good to see you today >> thanks, kelly >> scott nations >> up next, a host of transportation topics to talk about, and we've got phil lebeau to join us in the studio in studio to do it that's coming up after the brbr break. we'll see phil and you - ♪♪
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welcome back to "power lunch," everybody. several key transportation stories to talk about andphil lebeau is right here in studio to talk about them and we'll start with stellantis. we were just talking about this, the jeep slash dodge slash chrysler parent company that just posted record annual profits. but it's this ev transition
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that's catching ev's attention phil, welcome first of all >> well, it's good to be here. and when you're talking about stellantis, look, they had phenomenal profits record full-year profits not a surprise given the transaction prices on jeeps, rams they do great with peugeot over in europe. this is a company that's growing very quickly but evs are the future and carlos that vars knows that. and he even said on the conference call the cost of producing ev still has to come down dramatically and if that dunce happen they're going to have to find ways of cutting costs in other areas he's going to be watching the cost line as they try to ramp up -- >> have they not invested in evs the way other competitors have -- >> they have but they waited so long remember, they were in the midst of this merger between fiat chrysler and psa peugeot that took a long time. and they really couldn't invest in that. since then the spigot has been turned on under carlos thavares
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but it takes a long time to put these platforms together >> lucid, earnings out later today. we've got a lot of price pressure it seems, begun by tesla pushing prices down here >> right and the challenge for lucid is they're losing money they're likely going to have another quarter where they report a loss, and what's the cash burn? they've they've got enough cash the foreseeable future they will get '23 into '24 how do you get to comprofitabil. and the saudis say, with f it's going to take that long to get profitability, we may get that out there. that will be the cash burden rate >> we turn to the skies now. united airlines are no longer going to charge families for sitting together on flights. it's difficult sometimes because of the way everyone slices and dices tickets to get those seats
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altogether two kids under the age of 12, they try to make it easier >> they heard the president. they know it was coming. when the president says during the state of the union, quit treating your family like a bag -- luggage i mean, it was fairly forceful language they knew it was coming. when we talked to scott kirby earlier this week, he said we've been working on this the industry knows where the fees are in the target sights for the administration >> when you book, it's gotten much more complicated because you have to pay for seats to sit in a certain part of the aircraft all kinds of strings attached how many bags you can carry and so forth let's switch to automobiles. tesla. news about plans in california >> it's happen right now the governor, governor newsomtea
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they are talking about tesla expanding presence there, engineering, research and development, artificial intelligence >> talking about fremont >> well, palo alto is the engineering. fremont is where they manufacture. >> is this because they moved to texas? the headquarters did >> sounds like california is saying, we're the engineering headquarters - >> if you're the governor saying, we have tesla expanding in the state, it's great news. and if you're tesla, this is a no-brainer look at the talent you're looking for when it comes to a.i., r&d, another's right there. they have a huge presence. it is going to get bigger. >> what about the price cutting? will they gain share >> they have commitments
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>> well, who doesn't want more share? they have production plans you don't want to let the plants that you are continuing to grow, whether it's in china or europe or the two here in the united states, if you can continue to stoke demand there and you have the margins they have so you can afford to take a cut in place? absolutely do it the model, gangbusters right now. it's the most popular electric car in this country. they are the largest e.v. market in the country in california it is to gain share and to keep production going as they want it to go. >> can i circle back to the airlines what you said was interesting to me it's more commentary of getting rid of resort fees and hotel fees i didn't think of going back to the state of the union to do so. what does it mean for the
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business mod officiael of the cs >> ticket prices right now, i get this e-mail, they're ridiculously expensive they are cheaper than 30 years ago. they have gone up 20% compared to six months or a year ago. we get paid to fly weight. you and i are weight pags are weight. that's what we get paid to do. southwest have said bags fly free i wouldn't be surprised. and scott kirby would be surprised if they go after baggage fees they can't charge more than 100 bucks. i'm throwing out a number there.
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>> won't that make ticket prices go up? okay, we'll just turn away that revenue. if you say that $800 and you can't have fees, then that will be the ticket price, then, won't it >> i don't think so. some of these fees the administration believes they're ridiculous things like a family having to pay to sit together. that was a no-brainer saying, what are you doing here? >> let me throw another example out here spirit airlines, they will charge you certain amounts if you're printing out a ticket
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>> i am watching to see if they raise prices as a result phil, it's great to be here. phil lebeau. we will go yield hunting ahead. dom chu will put dividend payers under the microscope ♪ imagine something of your very own. ♪ ♪ something you can have and hold. ♪ ♪ i'd build a road in gold just to have some dreaming, ♪ ♪ dreaming is free. ♪ accenture, let there be change.
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♪ ♪ wow, we're crunching tons of polygons here! what's going on? where's regina? hi, i'm ladonna. i invest in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to the nasdaq-100 innovations, like real time cgi. okay... yeah... oh. don't worry i got it! become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq
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lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers and stores on america's most reliable 5g network. that sounds just paw-fect. terrier-iffic i labra-dore you round of a-paws at&t 5g is fast, reliable and secure for your business. intel cutting its quarterly dividend from 36 cents a share to 12 cents. that got us thinking about other
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high yielding stocks and whether the payouts are safe or if the 5% on a six-month t-bill is a better deal. putting that under the microscope is our dom chu. >> there's probably a reason why. you can get guaranteed money of 5.6%, for the t-bills. if you look for the yield, 1.6% is the current one, about 1.8% would you believe it if i told you there's 16 stocks in the s&p 500 that have yields north of 1.5%, but six of them are positive on the year, meaning it's being driven in the fact that the stock isn't falling, that the dividend payments are there. five of the six guys are in one particular group and that's oil and gas. check out one oak, williams, devin energy and cotera.
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one of the reasons we look at this is because they have positive price performance and have a big dividend. maybe those are sustainable. if you're looking for the other 15 or so stocks, check out my twitter feed i posted all of them on there. >> those high yields thank you very much. thank you for watching "power lunch. >> "closing bell" with scott wapner starts right now. >> i'm scott wapner. welcome to "closiing bell." this could be the most important earnings report of this late season nvidia, that stock surging and so much riding on these results. stacy will be with me later to walk up to the result. jim chanos will have a cnbc exclusive on the markets and one of the

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