that was the covid pandemic. that was when the most number of cases ticked up higher keep an eye on what's happening there. there are ways to prevent it go to our web site, scnbc.com we have tips on how to avoid this >> are these online? >> could be. cryptocurrency and bank transfers are the way people lose that money. >> dom, than very much thank you for watching "power lunch. >> "closing bell" starts right now. >> thanks so much. welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner key events today tesla is highly anticipated investor day, and earnings from dow components salesforce amidst a flurry of activist activity and questions about that company's road ahead, both less than 60 minutes away now we'll debate the future of value investing. what david einhorn told me how it could impact where you put your money in the years

ahead. let's check the scorecard. rates very much the story again today. the 10-year note yield reaching 4% so what will the fallout be for stocks that is our "talk of the tape" today. adam parker is a cnbc contributor, and he is with me i don't even stocks pulled up on my screens i have treasuries and i'm staring straight at the 10-year because that's where we're at, 4%, we'll call it that, hasn't been there since november. is that the big story? >> our research this week, what we published to our clients, no matter where you were three, four months ago, it's very, very hard to be more optimistic now than you were there. reason one, interest rates, as you point out, and perceptions about rates. when we were at 4% in november, the market was speculation has gone rampant, right. bitcoin is up 40% from the lows.

arc up 40% you can't argue speculation isn't more ram pant, valuation isn't more rampant the 2-year-old is ata high 2005 levels. that's on attractive alternative. i think the thing that's also come in recently that's made me more cautious is the 2024 earnings estimates have been posted analysts got the year-end 2022 numbers, sharpened the pencils, they posted. if you're worried about a v-shaped recovery in the numbers that doesn't feel likely in terms of an eroding economic backdrop now i'm saying three months ago, the rate environment and perception on reckless endangerments is worse, the earnings is down, valuation is less compelling. it's probably something like, you know, we modestly have a decline in cpi the fed kind of pauses and then

positioning is there it's not a great -- it's not the most compelling bull case, where a few months ago you could have had one. i think that's what's changed and why we wrote that note >> david einhorn was with me today, saying rates are going higher than people think it's one of the reasons he remains bearish on stocks. let's listen >> the fed does want stock prices lower they've made that clear. somehow they think after watching the stock market go up, or eight fold over 15 years, you know, they think if the market went down 15%, everybody would feel better and the economy would slow and it would spoil christmas. that seems to be the way they're conducting monetary policy i think it would be better for they cared less about the stock market in either direction, but they certainly spent a long time seeming to want to drive it higher, and now they seem to want it to go lower. and the market, at least for time being, is mostly cooperating. >> the elephant in the room, the fed. as long as the fed is leaning on

the market in einhorn's mind, how can you be positive stocks do you agree with him? >> i don't -- he's obviously way more connected than i am, but i don't know the fed wants something or, you know, specific about the stock market >> risk assets >> i agree with the answer i don't know if we showed our work, we'd have the exact same logic, but i agree with the answer if you're incrementally hawkish and you think the 10-year yield will have a higher level than others, you cannot be bullish on multiples. so, the only way to be bullish is on earnings, and that -- if you're saying i'm not an economist but the world i'm living in, there's probability it erodes higher than it accelerates, i think so. it's hard to be positioned in an incredibly optimistic way for u.s. equities right now. >> you like small caps does that portend -- >> if i showed you a full-year

chart for mega, mid, small-cap stocks, they were different in 2000 and they are now. microcaps are at seven times earnings and the market is at 18 1/2 the megacaps are above 20. the question is how much of that is priced in >> i would say maybe the microcaps are, you know -- okay, fine, they're priced where they are. the other part is overpriced >> that's right. i agree with that. >> that doesn't necessarily mean microcaps and small caps are the place to be. >> it could be, but on a relative basis, if something is at 7 times and something at 20, your outlook for 20 is probably too optimistic and your outlook for maybe more -- it's a relative estimate. you may want to own nothing. but i think there's so much cash on the sidelines you'll see it pick up. >> you still think there's a lot of cash on the sideline? >> i do. i think the private -- >> positioning maybe fuelled this january rally that kind of

dissipated in february >> it's funny. i think the private equity businesses have a lot of things in the public markets. you started seeing that last november when blackstone made a $10 billion investment in emerson. coupa. you've seen something start to percolate. a lot of software companies that have come down a lot that probably look to detract from some of these firms. the broader question, it's not just mutual fund flows and retail flows and the things old-school people used to look at for cash on the sidelines it's how muce nning a huge gross exposure if they feel they could pick winners and losers, even if the market is going down, they could access more capital, causing a disconnect >> keith learner joins us and victoria fernandez victoria, what's this month going to hold? is risk/reward better or worse for investors as we turn the

page >> i think investors are going to continue to be cautious we think there's going to be continued volatility for not just this month but the rest of the year we see the s&p much higher than where we sit right now if you're an investor, i don't think you're making large bets on any sector or specific allocation that you have we're trimming things, tweaking things, adding a cyclical component, some staple components, names that we've had added this week alone, american express, gilead sciences but i think you have to be cautious look, there is nothing wrong if you're a longer-term investor with adding a little bit of fixed income into that portfolio. the one-year and seven-year part of the curve are the cheapest right now, so go in and add a little bit, generate a 4.5%, 5% yield and collect that for a year nothing wrong with doing that. i think you have to remain

cautious because the fed in our opinion is not near being done, neither is the ecb so, i think you have a long road ahead of you of volatility, and i think also let's look at this, scott, that the economy is different than it was back in '08 or '09 the economy is not as sensitive to higher rates. so the fact that the fed is trying to squash demand and stop inflation by raising rates is different when now you have only 10% of mortgages that are variable rates versus 40%. and you have people spending on services services are not as subjective to higher rates as goods-producing items. they already bought all their goods. so, it's a very different environment, and i think it means the fed will push more, it will be higher for longer, so be cautious >> which is why, keith, i'm surprised to read the notes today, and you say risk/reward is actually improving for somebody who's been pretty cautious if not down right negative how do you come to that conclusion >> great to be with you, scott

when we were with you in mid-february, the market was around 4,150 we are saying the risk/reward was unfavorable. our latest note this week is saying the risk/reward has slightly improved but is far from compelling, and we're still not being aggressive at this point. we're on the defensive side. we had a 5% pullback in a week we've seen the froth come out with the high fliers coming back down, and we're around some technical support levels our overall view has not really shifted. we're just acknowledging we've had a bit of a pullback since e raised some cash to think about it, there is a consensus on this program today, but it makes sense, right? we have the one-year yield on the treasury at 5%, and that's the highest since 2007 and for you to want to go aggressively into stocks, you have to think our look is well above that to compensate for the risk even with the pullback, we're at 17.5 on a forward p/e. adam mentioned that forward

earnings number probably has some downside. that's far from compelling on a relative basis, the bonds have gotten somewhat worse but our initial view is acknowledging a little bit of the pullback we've seen in the past couple weeks. >> what do you think >> the only thing i probably differ on from victoria a little bit is you can make sector interests pretty active. i think if you have a declining or eroding economy and earnings, there's going to be some pretty big differences between winners and losers i think like things that are cheap cyclicals without earnings expectations, energy, metals, consumer finance we've recommended those areas this year. avoid inventory problems, select machinery, industrials, and you're overpaying for the defense, like, in staples. i think we're recommending a lot of active industry bets. i think you saw a big note on

semiconductors last week where we think they're overvalued and will have some meaningful downward revisions there are active things you can do in the industry selection, stock selection area >> keith, i'm trying to figure out how you can be even more incrementally positive and say risk/reward is incrementally better than it was simply because stocks have come back 5% from the rally as rates continue to go incrementally higher from their already moving-higher base and you talk about the possibility of more earnings revisions lower. so, how is the environment conducive to risk taking at all? >> again, we haven't changed our position a lot of people were bullish in mid-february we basically said we were standing by. basically we've gone from 4,200 to about 3,950 in a short period of time. we're acknowledging more for a technical level modestly oversold on a short-term basis

but risk/reward slightly improved we haven't made any changes from an asset allocation perspective. markets don't move in a straight line ed a m brings up a solid point there are opportunities below the surface, and this market, you had einhorn on earlier today, this is a much different market than the last decade where people indexed and put in the fame names you have to work harder. it is a better environment for active we are fans of the industrial sector we've been there for some time i was talking about that with the equity team this morning, the inflation reduction act, in that bill, there was $550 billion of incremental infrastructure spending in the next several years look at that sector. look at the defense sector you know, for highs, and also we have reshoring going on. there are opportunities within the market, but on the broad index level, the upside seems

capped we are overweight fixed income and cash today >>ed a a.m., individual stock picking. you like pfizer for large caps exxon? >> yeah. our themes, you know -- i just looked at pfizer over the week when we wrote that note of why we feel worse than three months ago, saving 3 million, 4 million lives, expectations are cheap. exxon bullish on energy, that's the chicken way to play it but i think there's a chance that energy stocks have upward revisions in the second hatch of the year because i think ultimately the current inventory will change and decommand growth will exceed supply growth over the next two, three years. i'm trying to find things that will relatively outperform in a cautious back to drop. some things with low expectations and are cheap are a good place to start. >> good to see you victoria, see you soon we're just getting started on "closing bell.

up next, david einhorn had choice words about the world of value investing. >> i don't mean value investing as a strategy is unlikely to do well, but as an industry, it's dead >> we have a value investor and a growth investor stand big to debate what mr. einhorn said, which brings us to our twitter question of the day. you'll always remember buying your first car. but the things that last a lifetime like happiness, love and confidence... you can't buy those. but you can invest in them. at t. rowe price, our strategic investing approach can help you build the future you imagine.

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we're back on "closing bell." it remains one of the biggest questions in this market -- is value investing as a strategy finally ready to outperform after taking a back seat to growth for the past several years? noted value investor david einhorn weighing in on that topic earlier today during our "halftime" exclusive listen >> i don't mean value investing as a strategy is unlikely to do well, but as an industry, it's dead if money has moved from value investors to index funds, and it's not coming back and people who used to be able to charge a management fee or have a staff and research analysts and used to get money every month to invest new ideas, that's been switched to index funds. >> our bob pisani joins me now with more. pretty provocative from einhorn today. value investing as an industry, dead what do you think? >> the parameters have changed a lot. so let's look at the numbers since the market low in october, value stocks had actually outperformed growth as

traditional value stocks like energy and bank stocks have rallied. this year they've been neck and neck the s&p 500 value is about even with the s&p 500 growth. both of them are up about 3% this year. there's two problems talking about growth versus value. the first is the long outperformance and investor preference for growth in indexing has left a shrinking pool of value investors. the second problem is that growth in value can be very difficult to pin down these days, so growth is traditionally associated with companies growing earnings, of course. usually technology but value is associated with companies that paid high dividends and had low p/e ratios, usually banks and energy in the old days. but those rules don't necessarily apply anymore. the largest holdings in the s&p growth sectors, amazon, microsoft, apple, nvidia, tesla, alphabet, exxonmobil old-fashioned growth exxon is now in the growth area. that used to be a value stock. look at the largest holdings in

the s&p value. mike, amazon, cisco, meta, berkshire, and jpmorgan. wait a minute. microsoft and amazon are also growth sectors too they're in both indexes. cisco and meta used to be growth stocks at one time not anymore. they're now value stocks many banks you see like jpmorgan are still in value so, scotty, there's not only a preference towards indexing but there's a difficulty defining what becomes value versus growth these days >> according to einhorn, bob, it's that preference towards indexing almost as if, you know, passive etfs have killed the business of value investing. everything now is -- i mean, where the money flows are going, everything is about index investing, thematic etfs, and things that are deemed to be much more sexy, so to speak, than plain old value >> on a broader level, it's about the persistent underperformance of active investors. this is a problem that went back into the mid-2000. when they saw that, not just

with growth, growth outperformed, but with anything, more investors put money into the indexing funds, and that's why we cover etfs so much, because those are primarily index plays, scott >> follow the money, like are with everything else bob pisani here to discuss and debate the road ahead for value investing, our two guests join us charlie, i go to you value investing, your bread and butter what do you make of einhorn's comments >> like mark twain said, reports of our death is widely exaggerated. i'm reminded of the "business week" cover in 1979 reporting on the death of equities, which managed to almost pick the absolute bottom in equities and we had the best 20-year run in equities ever following. it is a very positive sign that people are being so negative on the sector, clearly out of favor. there is no denying the last 15 years, with the exception of last year, and i'll come back to

that if a second, there were 15 years of heads winds because interest rates declined and value stocks went higher in the near term. that is not going to continue forever. it already stopped last year and value stocks beat growth stocks by more than 16%. russell does a much better job of differentiating between value and growth sthan s&p does, and the russell beat the growth index by over 16% last year. so, we are -- reports of our death are exaggerated. >> charlie makes a good point. fed induced, right all the money pouring into the system, of course growth is going to outperform value. you don't need to be a rocket scientist. why would it continue to outperform value at a time the fed is taking that money out >> i think interest rates get

overplayed as sort of why this value is underperforming or growth outperformed. it's been a big headway for growth in the last year. but growth stocks as you saw in the late '90s, in the middle of the dotcom bubble, interest rates were much higher i think the reason why growth stocks in general, and i agree with bob that, you know, the definitions are important here, because things get murky, but i think the reason why people are attracted in general to growth stocks, surprise, surprise, they grow more. their growth rates are higher than value stocks. i think eventually that's the siren song that gets investors back because they get attracted by high growth rates i think that will happen again growth has had a bad two years but people are always going to want to come back to the specific names they think have the best chance of growing over the next little while. >> which is why, charlie, some suggest that, you know, this couple steps forward that value

has taken for the first time in, as you mentioned, a number of years, is going to be short lived, that eric is right. when the environment is right, it's going to go right back to growth >> this is not two steps forward against an otherwise backward-moving story. the university of chicago and the center for research and security has been calculating value versus growth since 1926 and value beat growth for every ten-year period every single one until we got to 2005 value has -- the value effect has dominated growth far long period of time why? because of what was just said. people want to own growth. popularity bids up the price and brings down the returns. he's absolutely right that more people want to own growth and some growing at 4%, 5% that's why they overpay for growth stocks and why we can pick up better return.

>> and maybe, eric, charlie's right, in that this new environment that we are in, people are going to be more selective, stocks with lower valu valuations, as einhorn points out, the ones being ignored are going to be the ones that are more popular, the ones returning more cash to shareholders. the landscape has changed, and so, too, has this conversation. >> well, i think you're making the case, scott, for active -- passive indexes hurt active growth managers as much as they hurt active value managers, which david was talking about today. i think it gets down to, you know, which names are you going to the invest in right now, i could pay 44x forward p/e for ge, as jim has pointed out on your show, or forward 44x p/e for clorox, and something like, you know, midteens for google and meta so, you know, what's the best

stock? you have to do your homework i think there are some profitless tech companies that, you know, always seem to get a bad rap by a lot of folks these days, that, you know, if you look one, two years out, want to have stellar returns they are just being left for dead at the moment so the point i'm making is you really have to do your homework and put your bets on very specific names, which is kind of what david talked about today. his names i thought were fantastic names. these were not ge, you know, type forward multiple names that he was talking about in your show earlier today >> i love the way you put that -- profitless tech getting a bad rap. that's a new one charlie, the last question jpmorgan put something forward value vrs growth iravalue has

stalled. do you want to take that on? >> i don't think that's right. i think the value right now is overweight cyclical banks and energy, all of which are well positioned the world thinks we're going to have a recession the market is positioned, stocks as if we'll have a recession there's obviously a chance we'll have a recession but i think it's going to be a soft landing, a relatively modest landing when we get on the other side of that, the value stocks with a cyclical component are going to outperform very nicely there was a lot of pent-up demand for houses, for cars, for material goods the consumer is in very good shape in this country. i think we'll get on the other side of watching the fed pretty soon. >> we'll leave it there. great to have this conversation. charlie, welcome to our new "closing bell. good to see you. we'll have you back. eric, you'll be back in "the market zone" ahead up next, we are tracking the biggest movers as we head into the close. kristina partsinevelos is standing by with that. feast your eyes on these

names. warby parker and national vision holdings both down

30 minutes to go in the trading day. let's look at some stocks so watch. kristina partsinevelos joins us. warby parker shares are lower as investors digest quarterly earnings citi went from a target of 26 bucks a share to 13 bucks a share. warby parker is down and national vision holdings is on pace for its worst day ever after a miss on revenue and a wider than expected loss shares are down a whopping 38.5%. scott, i think you've seen enough i'll throw it back to you. >> kristina, thank you

kristina partsinevelos let's send it to meg tirrell with a big move in one biotech stock. what do we see here, meg >> huge move rhea ta is up almost 200% on an fda approval after the market closed yesterday for its rare disease drug there was controversy over whether the drug would get approved, questions about the efficacy the approval came in and the label, the indication was more favorable than analysts had been looking for. on top of that, they had this drug at $370,000 a year. barclays was looking at $175,000 for the price. that's also driving the stock higher analysts seeing an opportunity here perhaps of more than a billion dollars for this drug. >> wow what a game up next, we are talking speculative stocks david einhorn is weighing in on that as well mike santoli gives us his take

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biggest story of the day on your screen. 4.00, 4% on the 10-year. it's been november since we closed above that. we have to keep our eyes there no surprise, stocks not able to get much going today as a result of that, particularly growth stocks the high-growth ones are

weighing on the market today big time greenlight capital's david einhorn saying he sees more pain ahead for those names. >> i think we've created a bifurcated stock market because we spent six years basically putting value investors or people who care about financial statements, you know, out of business on the other side, we basically had a big speculative bubble where, you know, things of little value went up to really, really high prices, and people got really enthusiastic about that and that bubble is in the process still of deflating so i think there's more to go on both sides of that >> mike santoli is with me now you highlighted the rally in speculative stocks earlier this year their relationship to rates. what do you think? >> a lot of the reckoning has already been seen in this area now, there was a real big kind of an echo boom in january in a lot of these stocks. but if you looked at it from the point when they all peaked,

february 12th of 2021 i think was the blow off the top for things like the arc invest portfolio, the ipo index, and all that you went down 80%. then after the massive january rally you were down like 70% off the highs. so, yeah, you've seen it, but relative to the average stock there hasn't been a lot of kind of rebuild of those excesses that could still mean a lot of that stuff is too expensive. everything was david was talking about today, i go back to the 2000 and 2002 period, and once the nasdaq went down 50%, it has more downside. arc has followed the path of the nasdaq of those days and the resulting companies like not a lot of them really thrived after that so it was a lot of wreckage. >> yes and he points out in his letter, you know, dated in january that, you know, he didn't think we would see another reckoning like we did from 2000 and 2002, and in his words, we were wrong given what happened last year.

he also said they have their fifth so-called bubble basket of stocks they're betting against, including, it was obvious to me, one related to the arc stocks. >> no doubt about that, and that's fair. those stocks have not had fundamental improvement even though their stock prices are way down for most part, they haven't. i get that i don't necessarily see that as being something that will be a market-wide driver from here on out. the nasdaq itself of today, the curren current-day nasdaq, the most profitable companies in the world on top of it, down 30% you had the ark portfolio, which resembled before its ascent to the peak the nasdaq of the late 1990s. >> sure. >> so that did have the same kind of decline as we saw in the nasdaq in those days i get it but you also had this massive rebound in value over growth the pure value segment of the s&p 500 has outperformed pure growth in the last let's say 15

months by 30 percentage points right? it's not like -- >> what he was just talking about. >> so, it's worked the thing is it only looks like a partial comeback from those periods. the final report on that early 2000s experience, value versus growth was a great trade for years but mostly it was because growth kept imploding. it wasn't necessary that in absolute terms value portfolios went a lot higher every year they held their value better there was more tr yields, more cyclical exposure, i also think there's a way to blend these things if you look at the free cash flow etf, cash cow, it's got meta, paypal, and a ton of energy and chemical companies in there. it's kind of its own thing measuring free cash flow, but it captures the cheaper growth and better positions >> meta used to be a growth stock, value now it's a good conversation we'll see you in "the market zone" in a few

weigh in on our twitter question head to @cnbcclosingbell on twitter.

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the results of our twitter question is traditional value investing dead the majority said no 65%, in fact up next, salesforce results in overtime tonight dan ives is here with the key themes he is watching in that report

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who's ready to cha-cha?! ♪ yeah, yeah ♪ we're in the "market zone. mike santoli is here to break down these crucial moments of the trading day. plus our guests on tesla their investor day is just around the corner. and dan ives as we count down to salesforce in overtime as well mike santolii said the 10-year is at 4% and the stock market is kind of hanging in >> certainly apprehensive. you can't escape the shadow of what rates are doing last time we got to 4% in november, the s&p had been

rallying, and it chopped sideways it wasn't as if it was an immediate break. it's not some trigger level but part of this ongoing low-intensity test we're having in the stock market of these support levels, the moving averages, trend lines all coming together but i still pull out a message that's not all that discouraging because it's still the rate-sensitive defensive sectors leading to the downside, underperforming today. semis are up this week and industrials still mahanging in there. >> the nasdaq is obviously the biggest loser today. by hanging in there, i'm looking at the dow, which doesn't tell you much the s&p 500 is at 3,950, and that's a more critical area of -- >> small caps too. >> in a matter of days we'll be talking about another jobs report, we'll get the chipotle, the fed all in the same conversation of rates are moving higher into that >> without a doubt this repricing has been steady

it was off to a big rush and now kind of incremental. i think it's interesting that now the market, if anything, has priced in more fed tightening in the next several months than the recent fed speakers have been willing to commit to so, you know, you say there's no disconnect the credit markets continue to act well so to me that's almost a little bit of a tiebreaker between stocks and treasuries. so we'll see how it plays from here but without a doubt it's hard to escape that we're in this range most of the last ten months between 3,800 and 4,200, and we're just about in the middle of it. >> the chop just continues all right. brenda, eric jackson brenda, you first. we're count do you think to the investor day for tesla i don't know how you feel about the stock you own, which has doubled since the january low. i wonder if it will be a sell on the news event >> well, no doubt. it certainly feels a lot better now than it did earlier in the year nevertheless, i think the growth

story here hasn't changed, and i think this venue, analysts say it will be a great opportunity for the company to reiterate the growth ahead, really coming from what is not going to be here in the near term but more of a 2005 event with their generation 3 automobiles and how they'll cost engineer those and then looking at the solar business, which is a tiny piece, only about 6% of revenue anticipated this year, but nevertheless, a growing piece on the energy side. i think it's a real ddifferent m other auto companies i think the stock will rally on this event, possibly not given just how much the stock has moved recently i think we could see a period of consolidation as the company kind of rose into the multiple here but in our view, that doesn't change the longer-term growth story, which we think is still a standout especially among the larger-cap peers within the s&p 500. tesla stands out, still taking significant market share from

the traditional industry and still growing significantly and a first mover. not many other companies can say that >> e.j., what do you want to hear today what's most critical in your mind in an environment where the stocks double in just six weeks? >> i think it's all about deliveries, scott. so i think there are two topics that they could touch "on the money" -- on the investor day they have to go from $2 million in deliveries expected this year to $20 million in about ten years from now so, they might give some clues about how they're going to expand theircapacity in different factories around the world or new factories they plan on building, which could possibly impact capacities this year that would get people excited. and i think there's been hints they'll talk about a model 2, basically a lower price, a version of the model 3, which

has been getting a lot of tailwinds with tax credits from the inflation reduction act and has been driving interest in that stock so, if there's an even cheaper model that will come out fairly soon, that's going to get analysts and investors excited >> deliveries get all the hype what about battery manufacturing? how much do you need from that today? >> well, i think that's an important part of the story. i agree with brenda that they'll probably talk about how the solar city energy, you know, with tesla, maybe even a little bit of spacex all comes together i think that sort of counters the narrative, like why shouldn't this be priced like another dumb low-gross-margin auto company but i think deliveries is really what gets people to sit up and take notice with the stock >> no doubt about that thank you. dan ives joining me now. you've covered this company. what are your own expectations

>> i think it's going to be a lower-priced vehicle that's key, to get to the masses, to get to that 5, 10, 15 million deliveries it's a 30k car it's capacity. it will be a flex the muscles moment in terms of showing production globally, and i think they'll announce, you know, we'll call it mexico, potentially indonesia and some others, then it's ultimately laying the groundwork for the coming year, they can do this from a larger perspective. i think this will be another shining moment for tesla as it speaks to its arms race playing out. >> margins will be top of mind with salesforce, isn't it. got the activist pressure. they want margin targets maybe moved up in fact what are your own expectations today? >> i think the cinderella story is over for benioff.

i think strategic options on the table, do they spin off or sell slack or go low? ultimately laying off some sort of strategy around a succession. this is one, investors don't want the cookie-cutter conference call. pressure is growing. it's a golden standard i think ben offknows what he needs to do on the conference call >> david faber had been reporting earlier today about the slate from elliott benioff will read the room one of the best franchises in software and technology. slack a disaster, rip the band aide off situation now it's how do you navigate going forward. margins, give a succession plan and talk about revenue growth and give confidence.

he does that, this moves higher. that's our opinion this is a $200-plus stock once this all takes place >> mike santoli, you have an opinion on what is a highly critical conference call from mr. ben off. -- benioff >> there's reason to express urgency on the cost side and other strategic maneuvers. it seems whatever the consortium, loosely speaking, of activists wants to happen, it has buy-in at the company, it's happening at a time where there are legitimate questions in moments of the cycle we're at, cutting demand for their services it's not just about where you have this static revenue pool and let's cut the expenses the growth rate is definitely something that is under question too. it's going to slow down because of the size of the company already. and, you know, can they instill some confidence that it's not just going to be, you know, harvesting the margins and it will restart growth at some

point. >> dan ives, two stocks, salesforce and tesla, that have come off the mat so to speak with a lot of those higher-growth names. what does that mean going into both events? >> look, i think you've started seeing more of a risk. tesla it's been the price cuts and the demand so far. i think salesforce is important because it speaks to what we saw in microsoft with amazon, you know, with palo alto how much were things slowing i think this is just a very important night for disruptive tack between musk and benioff. >> thanks for your words mike santoli will give us his. about three minutes. we have key events, tesla, snowflake too, another high-flying names in a software space. >> for tesla in particular, this should be a pretty good test of whether the old trick of focus, everybody, on the magical

future, we're going to solve all the problems, here are the models to come, because this is now a company that's supposed to have $100 billion in revenue this year. it's no longer all about what's to come. we know the order situation in china and it's not a great story. can you divert attention there's a massive gulf between a boring old dumb legacy, low-margin car company at single-digit multiples and tesla back to a 50 p/e on forward estimates. >> snowflake, we didn't give it much press today, but demand, enterprise demand, it is a key report for a stock that really was in the stratosphere not that long ago >> not at all. it's like a third of the market cap of salesforce, about a tenth of the revenue expected say in a year or two. so clearly everyone assumes it's got the better mouse trap. it's a much less towering valuation than it was. >> yes, and it was at $272 in

the last 52 weeks. >> right there has obviously been a lot s of figuring out which one of the moon shot stocks really deserved to be anointed and which ones haven't. snowflake, i think, is in that category of they're here to say, they're a market share gainer, and they have certainly a better platform but what do you pay for it, and what's the pace of that growth look like right now? >> i looked at another non-moon shot it flashed on the screen apple down, right at $145. you have to watch that stock too. >> i push back against the rates are all that matter, but for a stock like apple that is not valued on super xwroelt in the next couple years, it's very stable, it's bond-like in a lot of ways, because it is a capital return story so it's in line with yields.

that's not a big surprise. apple is going down and dragging the s&p a little negative on a day where equal-weighted s&p is down 0.1%, that's not a bad day for the overall market you know why it's happening. [ bell ] >> the 10% right at 4% tesla, salesforce, all in focus in "overtime" with morgan and john >> we have the scorecard on wall street welcome to "closing bell overtime." coming up this hourenings key reads on enterprise software and detail on rae tail we get earnings results from salesforce, snowflake, and american eagle just moment ace way. we begin with breaking news. tesla's investor day is kicking off right now in austin, texas that's where we find our leb will be. what are the chances we get