much more efficient coming out of this cycle. >> american power. infrastructure will continue to grow >> all right so we are on the highs of the day, about 277 for the dow s&p 500, well above that 200 day moving average now i'll see you on "closing bell. "the exchange" is now. ♪ ♪ thank you, scott hi, everybody. i'm kelly evans. here's what's ahead. everyone is talking about whether the fed needs to take rates to 6% now. but what if that number is too low? rates should be headed towards 9% or 10%. is that feasible we'lltalk to john taylor himself. and office rates have been crushed by rising rate and slowing demand but there's one name in better position, the stock up 14% so far this year and getting an upgrade. the analyst behind that call and a couple of downgrades today joins us to make his case.

and installing a war cabinet. that's what kyle bass is calling xi jinping's latest moves. do you stay awe way from investing there? we'll have that momentarily. we begin with today's market and dom chu with these big numbers >> as green as your dress, 352 points to the upside for the s&p 500. that represents the session high right now. so, again, i'll put a little 52 up here to give you context. even at the lows, we were up about 14 handles so generally a positive day, above the 50 and 200-day moving averages for the s&p 500 the dow industrials, up 275 points up about 0.9 of 1% and 1.5% north of that for the nasdaq 11,644 let's take a look at where the action was this week if you look at the outperformers, the material

sector spider up about 4%. 2 1/2% gains for the service sector spider. meanwhile, utilities and consumer staples, the real laggards as interest rate goes higher, one-yield treasuries are yi yielding 5%. so would you rather takelet's cn cryptocurrencies a lot of negative sentiment. bitcoin prices over the course of the last year, you can see ether prices down 45% during that span. we'll watch a couple of key parts of the market. bitcoin prices at 21,500, the

longer term 200 day moving average for bitcoin. 1,490 for this so keep an eye on those levels >> dom, thanks the ten-year yield below 4% today. we've got whiplash from these moves. what's driving us down, rick >> you know, it's a very, very interesting question, because there's several good answers but i think the context should be, when fed officials, previous and current, come out saying 6% may be needed, and we see this much green in equities, maybe the better question is what do investors see that fed officials don't? my opinion is, even though it's been a bumpy ride down on levels of inflation that were historically higher, several months ago, it's now a question of what happens over the next 6 to 10 months believe me, people calling for

6% don't know any more in their crystal ball than those buying stocks turning green today if you look t at this, you can see we're giving a lot back today. that's two-year. if you look at a ten-year, we're below yesterday's low yields that's interesting because at 3.97, we're down nine on the day but only up two on the week so we're taking back some of those moves. if you look at the chart next, that goes back to october, you can see we've only had two closes, in nearly four months above 4% that doesn't count the fact that the high is 4 to.25. and this went less inverted as rates went up on the long end, and obviously as they go down, we're getting more invertded where we sit, we could be making another fresh batch at four decade extremes.

and yesterday, an 11.5 year high cycle close. today, they gave a bit back. but they're really making up some lost ground on an ecb that's been much too dovish. kelly, back to you >> rick, so i can ponder this all weekend long, as people have this no landing theory, have the yield curves gotten any less inverted have they steepened at all >> you know, it seems to me, to answer your question, it's getting a little weird because of what is going on with bills i like watching twos to tens, but no, it doesn't seem to be a long lasting impact on the inversions a and the curve what the fed takes overnight rates is not necessarily painting you an accurate picture on what market rates are going to be. an even bigger question, why is anybody interested, kelly?

for one reason, because they want to know how it will affect stocks so if you're back into this equation, to answer your question, all that really matters is what stocks think about when the fed's going to end. because the pent up demand to buy, as the professor and judge will say later on, don't market time it. you need to be around if you're going to catch these big rallies that will most likely occur when the fed white flag comes out, and it will come out sometime this year. >> i would just feel better if we were uninverting and not looking as bad as ever >> it's about recession too, kelly. another question, and i'll tell you what, i don't care what the experts say, for what it's worth, most of the people whose opinions i respect most, a slowing is coming. how much is the issue. >> rick, thank you my next guest says the key

is making the mistake of returning to the playbook of the past decade. we need a change in leadership joining me now is the deputy cio and chairman of the investment committee. and back with us onset is dom chu. dan, great to have you here. i think this is important, because we all identify the 2010s with f.a.n.g would you like to see reliable new leadership to get excited about the rally today? >> yeah, that's right, kelly you know, the history on this is very clear there's not that many tried and true rules in markets, but future leadership is never the same as prior cycle leadership, and bear markets always signal that change in leadership. we've already had the signal we know that the next ten years is going to look very different. so you can see in the performance of this year that people just want to go by, you know, what they have come to love in their portfolios that's probably not going to be the leadership, but that is the

opportunity. >> if only you could tell us what the new leadership would be, then we could chase it to the moon, i guess. what are your leading theorys right now? >> you have to separate the short term from the long-term. for the short term, this is more about, you know, owning high quality defensive assets for the most part. for the long-term leadership, if you think about what happened in the last few years, you basically had a bubble form with huge parts of the equity market. you have too much capital allocated to one part of the market and scarcity in other parts. so you can go anywhere the farther that you get from the bubble, the bigger the opportunity. if you flipped the last ten years on its head, it was u.s. large-cap growth i'm more inclined to think the next ten years is more international, more about small caps and value >> obviously, a lot of people are excited about the idea that it's a stock picker's market, as

well i think his point is, because it's so tempting to just say i'll just buy it on the cheap and get these gains. but just like investors are chasing the last rally, the fed is fighting the last crisis, we're always fighting the last war. >> it seems that there's a good amount of muscle memory investors will have to work through. if you look at this as the end of a cycle, that tends -- that was a massive secular one. i could make the argument that the pandemic lows were a bear market, as well. but then people came right back into large-cap growth in the wake of that but in this case here, i think what dan is trying to point out is that this is a sea change for the markets, because now we have a tightening cycle for the fed, the likes of which we have never seen, unprecedented on that scale. if you look at that, there may be other parts of the market

that will do well. i don't know, however, if folks are going to be that enamored with this idea that large-cap value or value oriented sectors could provide the kind of leadership that mega cap did over the last 10 to 12 years >> because we are an innovative economy. we can understand technology because we changed the world, right? so maybe you can make a case for something like energy now. i can see how that might be -- what would you say has real upside potential, or is this a more stunted kind of bull market that we might experience >> i think, you know, at the end of the day it's all about how much you pay if you think about all the innovation that you're talking about, you've got to go back -- we have a good analogy for what's happening now with the tech bubble. it was a little different, but you basically had the promises of internet changing our lives if you go back to 2000, the peak of the tech bubble, we were still using aol dialup

internet penetration was quite low, we hadn't seen all the implications yet, it took you 14 years to make your money back so there's a difference between the story and tin vestment i i think that's similar today so owning the stuff that's truly cheap, 10, 11, 12 times multiples. whereas if you look at forecasts, even for like technology, they're lower than energy people don't care and are not willing to pay, you know, more than a nine times multiple for energy >> so you could own technology as long as it's not large cap, the stuff people are less excited about? >> well, kelly, i think we're in the midst of a deflating bubble. if you think about the last three, four years, everything related to technology, you're seeing with the ai buzz word story today. anything remotely related to technology and innovation was

going up so that benefitted the small caps and different areas so as that bubble deflates, it's going to be like falling tides that are going to sink -- not sink, but take all the ships' levels down. >> anything but large-cap growth is the bottom line here. let's pivot as we move to talk about china. there has been a huge, dramatic increase in tensions this year, driven by russia's war in ukraine, taiwan, and the spy balloon sending relations back further. >> reporter: over the next week and a half, chinese lawmakers are going to be discussing the country's outlook for the year, including on the economy on sunday, the outgoing premier is going to deliver his work

report and unveil the annual growth target. the expectation is we'll see gdp growth at above 5%, possibly as high as 6% as the country continues to recovery, hopefully, after zero covid. the bigger issue is president xi jinping's political control over economic policymaking. so far, the indications from him and his team have been they're much more interested in state and communist party intervention so the old team of many u.s. investors, such as the trade negotiator, who was working on the deal long ago, those people are out. the new team looks as though it's going to be stacked with xi proteges the state media has flagged a far-reaching reform plan in the offing, which would entrench the communist party into more government institutions,

including the central bank so we don't know a whole lot of detail what we do know is it's supposed to affect the financial system, the technology industry, private enterprise, as well as the public and state security organs so that would be the police, as well as intelligence gathering so far, in terms of the delegate list, some interesting changes the top tech entrepreneurs, the bosses of, say, ten cent, and others, those guys are out the ones who are kind of taking their place, we're seeing a lot more of them, are some of the bosses of the big, partially owned -- partially state owned or fully state owned chip industry, as well as ai players. kelly? >> thank you very much let's listen to what kyle bass said this morning about president xi's political appointments last fall here's what he had to say.

>> imagine if we removed the head of the s.e.c., the head of our central bank and our secretary of treasury, all in one move, and replaced them with people from the cia around people from the state police and people -- military generals in charge of missile batteries. what you saw xi jinping do was -- [ inaudible >> dan, you're still bullish on chinese stocks explain. >> yeah, kelly, i think when you think about the geopolitical risk, one thing is, you know, who is not aware that there is huge geopolitical risks when it comes to chinese stocks? i think that's embedded in chinese valuation trades i think as with insurance, people tend to overpay, you know, for the fear so a lot of those fears are embedded so we just focus on the fundamentals that drive markets,

which is profits, liquidity and sentiment. when you look at it through those three fundamental factors, profits have been terrible in china, but now they're exiting the profit session as the rest of the world is entering, and what will help the story, as -- unlike the u.s., which is tightening into a profit session, china is easing as it exits. so i think, listen, there is going to be longer term concerns that you can have issues with, but if you have this conversation six months from now, 12 months from now, profits will be more attractive now, and that will be a strong runway for returns for the chinese stock market >> i think the thing you have to be wary about if you're an investor in china, if you are outside of china investing in china, there are a handful of companies that are the face of investing in china three quarters if not more of

them are in big cap tech these are the same companies that the government is going to seemingly take more control over, or have more regulatory or overnight over, or exert even more influence over. they just talked about this revamping of the cabinet there's this tug of war, if you will there is a great economic story about the reopening of china post covid-19 zero >> even though we haven't really seen it. >> you can argue that there is an economic narrative that the world's second biggest economy is opening up. at the same time, though, the political environment is going to crack down on the company seemingly that are the most prominent in terms of the chinese public investing economy. th therein lies the rub >> dan, quick last word? >> yeah, i think dom makes some

great points i would say that if you follow what the chinese government, how their position has changed over the last year, they're clearly prioritizing near-term growth. down the line, they want to do that balance in a balanced fashion, and the areas that dom mentioned you want to be wary of in terms of government regulation the good thing is, those are the areas that got destroyed the most over the bear market over the last few years a lot of those concerns are priced in. but you have to be mindful there is going to be those regulatory risks going forward. >> thank you, both dan, dom, thank you. coming up, wondering how the return to office is going? look no further. down 80% from its high in 2015 and just yesterday hit its lowest level in 25 years we're joined next by our analyst

john taylor. some are saying the fed rate should be 9% is that right? that's coming up dow up 280 points, near session highs. and the nasdaq up 1.6% back after this. this is "the exchange" on cnbc nd carpeted floor. it's a place to change the world. loopnet. the most popular place to find a space.

welcome back to "the exchange." reitz are coming off a tough couple of years. pimco defaulting on a $ billion mortgage across seven different buildings. amazon pausing it's headquarters in virginia. so how do you separate the weakest from the rest? let's bring in john, a real estate analyst good to have you here. welcome. >> thanks, kelly >> i think they were all trying to figure out whether the worst is upon us, and this data -- and by the way, the title of your

note is "staying alive till 2025." the national vacancy rate is 13%, will peak at 14% next year, then improve so you see trouble for vornado because they have a number of leases coming due. >> the next two years are crucial for the office space who knows when demand is going to pick up optimists say the earliest that's going to be is the second half of next year. you look at the balance sheet of these companies. you really start to get some relief next year so a lot of the companies really need to navigate tough waters this year and next we're focusing on companies who

had the most risk near term, and one of the reasons -- >> for those less familiar with it, they mostly work in coastal markets like los angeles and honolulu you think over time they should benefit. what is the fundamental problem here, john we're hearing more headlines about companies pushing people to come back to work, in some cases five days a week are we ultimately going to get back to what we saw prepandemic or not is the fundamental problem for all these reits, the idea that they're just going to be a lot more real estate than we need, forever? >> well, that's the big debate a lot of companies want to bring back employees once they start pushing, there's just pushback. now we're on our third year working from home, some people working remote full-time amazon tried to mandate a three-day workweek, and have got an lot of pushback from employees.

so i think it's going to be really hard. our view is that there will be demand going forward we need to have people in the office to fully be functional as companies. but it's not going to be that easy so right now, we're through a cyclical downturn and we'll see what happens we just don't know the answer right now. >> there is a bright spot. empire state, they own the empire state building itself and other properties why are they an outperform and held up relatively well here >> a lot of companies are pivoting away from pure office empire state, before the pandemic, 25% of its income was coming from the observatory. the observatory has held up very well, even with the competition in new york. and we're looking at the next couple of years where the u.s. dollar is getting weaker that can encourage more tourism into new york. china is reopening that's been a big contingency.

so we have a core part of the business really growing. and on top of that, empire state has a strong balance sheet so on both funds we're looking at, we think it looks clean. >> all right we appreciate you coming on, john for the research here, john kim, as everyone is focused on this sector where we see the pain spreading. we have an interview on monday with the ceo, tony malkin coming up, could espn become the one-stop shop for all live sports streaming we have a report on those deal talks. shares are up 1.6% today and disney among the leaders in the dow with apple and boeing up today. while verizon and united among the laggards back after this. lomita feed is 101 years old this year and counting. i'm bill lockwood, current caretaker and owner.

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welcome back to "the exchange." 20 points off the session high right now for the dow. and the nasdaq up 1.6% as reits recede and we're seeing solar hitting a high the stock is up 5% the firm calling it the most significant beneficiary of the "inflation reduction act." the stock is up 28% this week. remember, they posted that smaller than loss since tuesday. it's on pace for its best week since july for more, go to cnbc.com united hitting its high since november of 2021

it's up 32% over the past year, outperforming delta and american by a mile. those stocks are only up 7% and 4.5%, and its rally since january for united puts them on track for their best quarter since 2014 let's get to bertha now for an update here's what's happening at this hour. meta is slashing prices for its virtual reality headsets dropping by $500 for a quest pro and $70 for the quest two. meta lost over $13 billion on its reality units in 2022. columbia university becoming the first ivey league school to go tech optional the school's undergraduate admissions will stop requiring s.a.t. or a.c.t. test scores when considering applicants.

other ivy league schools have extended the policy that was adopted during the pandemic, but only columbia has permanently adopted the initiative maine lobstermen landed their smallest haul in a decade this year, amid ongoing industry challenges fishermen dealt with surging fuel and bait prices, rebukes from retailers, and the possibility of new fishing restrictions maine lobster has exploded in value, in part due to growing international demand from countries such as china. so i guess that lobster roll is going to cost a whole lot more this summer. >> seems always to bertha, thank you very much. still ahead, should the fed funds rate be at 9% right now? is it time to toss that out? what does john taylor thin 'lasth, xtk?

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welcome back to "the exchange," everybody still hot inflation data could force the fed to hike rates above 5% according to christopher waller but some say it should be double that if you use taylor's rule, the rate should 9% right now hear to discuss him is the creator of the taylor rule,

professor of economics, john taylor >> i would like to point out, i'm only here so i can have a front row seat in the class. >> the most important thing, professor, and thank you for your time, i even seen -- thanks to tools like fred and twitter, the taylor rule says we should be at 9%, 10%. what does taylor say the taylor rule says policy should be right now? >> it depends on the inflation rate if it's 4%, that's kind of mild. 6% is where it should be so i like the fed to get to that point. >> let's rewind for a second the reason people don't like the taylor rule, they say it's just a set of calculations. how can we talk about different outcomes this sounds like it's more flexible >> it's not so flexible. it depends on what you think the inflation rate is, there's debate about that. is it coming down, is it steady?

so i'm assuming the inflation rate is 4% that's pretty mild but it's a simple formula. it's been around 30 years, and the fed has used it from time to time they all know about it what is most concerning is for a whole year is they were way below, half a percent, and they're getting back i wish they would come back a little faster. >> i want to remind people, we should have grounded the sound bite you were on our show about a year ago, saying we should be at 5%, and people were saying, that's crazy guess what that doesn't sound crazy at all. >> john, you said they're getting back did you mean they're getting back to following a taylor rule more closely would that have completed your sentence there >> yeah, i think that's one way to think about it. they have different perspectives i know most of them. but they are getting closer,

4 1/2 is closer to 6 or 7. given the inflation rate has not come down a lot, you've got to still move a little higher i think that's what i would saver they do. you have to mention other countries, it's a global issue >> john, maybe the one thing i could add is to talk about how the fed thinks about the taylor rule i want to concur with your opinion here, which is when i hear fed officials talking about the 4, 5, 6 area, it comports with somewhat different areas than the taylor rule the cleveland fed publishes 27 different versions of the taylor rule there are seven different -- sorry, it's 21 the forecasts are key. but what i do hear, john, and i think even though they say they don't want to follow a rule

precisely, it seems to me like they're going to this idea of 5.5 to 6 range, which is supported in a lot of different taylor rules is that right? >> i think that's right. the fed has -- the taylor rule is in their report so they pay attention to it. they're paying more attention at this point now but i would say let's get to six, maybe a little further. but let's get to that point. we have a ways to go and we'll see what happens i think you might have to go higher, but i don't know yet and there are different versions it depends on the inflation rate, the gdp gap. only two variables, gdp gap and inflation. there's also the debate about what should the inflation rate be >> john, one of the issue features of the market today is

the idea that it believes beginning next year, it will lead to cuts i don't know if you have that long-range chart what do you think -- what does the taylor rule tell us about whether or not the market has that forecast correct? >> it depends on what they think the inflation rate will be the danger is cutting too fast, and i think that's where you're seeing this. they're optimistic that inflation will come down, but we have to wait and see that's the whole notion of a rule and policy strategy that the fed seems to be paying attention to than they were before >> you mentioned the rule takes into account inflation and the gdp gap. what is the gdp gap right now? >> nearly zero we're basically, based on the unemployment rate, it's very low. so i would put that aside, it

makes it easier and focus on the inflation rate, which is still quite high >> john, should we put aside -- i've been thinking a lot about the labor force and how chair powell has said -- i almost said chair taylor, perfectly possible -- but chair powell says he doesn't see the workforce coming back to what it was before if we have lower labor force, we'll have lower gdp and the output gap is what >> the unemployment rate and the gdp are kind of the same thing the taylor rule, we use the gdp gap, and so i think that as long as they're in sync and there's debates about what the unemployment rate is or debates about potential gdp -- >> john, before we get you go, i

want to ask all of this from a very different point of view there's been a lot of criticism that the fed is a lagging body that reacts to lagging data. what about the idea they need to be more forward looking. the leading indicators are abysmal. everything but jobless claims were bad the yield curves are horrendous. don't you think they should be taking leading data more into account? >> well, to some extent, our rule does that, right? you guess what the interest rate will be next year, you have to think of what the inflation rate is next year it's built in to the idea, it's not forward look ing but it is part of the rule -- [ inaudible that's true. in fact, you guess what the inflation will be, and then you guess what the funds rate will be so that's a forecast and it could be wrong. that's why the rule is written

as -- in terms of the current inflation rate, and the current estimate of the full employment/unemployment rate there is already a rule. a rule means you say what you're going to do now. i have seen some favorability coming back to say we need to have some rule that's been used more in the past i think the pandemic got off, there was lots of folks i quoted from that said we should get back and that was the lag. now i think it was a whole year, year and a half where they were too low, and it's best they get back as fast they can. >> certainly i know there are a lot of people who say this is a hard and fast rule, but i certainly would have had a better outcome had people gotten more ahead of this >> you can play this game at home if you go to the cleveland fed website, they allow you to download a spread sheet where you can put in your own variables and come up with your own version.

>> we should do that with the telestrator. >> it's more fun than an economics reporter should ever have >> you can publish the page from the report >> the fed report has it in there and there's a good explanation. they're not hard to understand it's the ideas, is it the underlying principles of fed policies are not that complicated. >> but you don't know the inflation rate in the future professor, thank you so much steven, thanks, as well. still ahead, the 30-year mortgage rate holding above 7% a lack of inventory still pressuring prices. is the nascent housing recovery over and we're live starting monday in houston that's right here monday at 1:00 p.m. eastern back after this. lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”.

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mortgage rates crossed above 7% yesterday for the first time since the fall, and we're just below that level right now for more on the fallout across the housing trade, let's bring

in diana olick. >> rates pulled back slightly, but the damage was done yesterday, when it crossed over to. 7.1%. the trajectory is higher now we have seen the rate jump about 100 basis points in four weeks and the home builders are not loving that. home construction is down 7% from a month ago take a look at a three-month chart. it had surged much higher in january when rates dropped back to 6%. builders were calling a recovery in the market. sentiment jumped up for two straight months. not so much now. in january, rates dropped way down builders and lenders are up on the day because bond yields pulled back, but again, that tra jik try is still up. what does it mean for the spring housing market ahead some are saying the brief

recovery has stalled realtor.com put out its february report showing active listings up 68% from a year ago, new listings are down 17%. so homes on the market now are not selling because they're not affordable, thanks to higher mortgage rates kelly? >> diana, thank you very much. whip saw market so far this year still ahead, decluttering sports with more platforms involved, it's hard to find the games on game day he atto, xtosing a solution weavth sryne businesses of all s, there are a lot of choices when it comes to your internet and technology needs. when you choose comcast business internet, you choose the largest, fastest reliable network. you choose advanced security for total peace of mind. and you choose a next generation 10g network that's always improving, getting faster; more reliable; and more intelligent to keep you ready for today and tomorrow. the choice is clear: make your business future ready with

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welcome back there's been lots of debated over whether disney should spin off of espn but did the sports network make a move to make disney profit better breaking a story espn talked with major sports leagues and media partners becoming a streaming hub of all live sports how much of a game changer could it be for disney and others? we bring in al sabex sherman and others welcome to all of you.

really helpful for a lot of viewers. how profitable for espn? >> i think it's more of a strategic big picture story than an investor story. i'm not sure anyone's going to change their opinion on whether or not they should invest in disney because of this the concede is that by partnering with other media companies and directly sending customers to a given streaming service that is not owned by disney, airing a live sports game, espn could then take a cut of that revenue for each new subscriber that it signed up but big picture, it changes the conception of espn it puts espn in the content discovery game rather than just in the original content game, and i think that's an interesting perspective for people as they look at big media companies going forward. >> sure. so according to alex's piece the way it works, go to espn.com, the app. you see a baseball game

streaming on apple tv, for instance click through to that. espn would take sounds like a little cut, but so the partners are trying to figure whether it's worth it to surface their product better but give up that first relationship with the viewer >> exactly right they want to be first thing you think of when you think sports for connected tv sports fan no matter, in your head go to the espn app find your team. whether mariners or the new york rangers or whatever it might be. from there you will find your team versus going through the myriad of apps only increasing to find your team and where they are right now, as i've said before on cnbc and mlb has five tv deals, nhl, two, three. nba a whole bunch. finding your team harder and a goal to simplify that being a first stop for anything with a connected tv looking for their sports team. >> super clever, cynthia, if it

works. can't speak to economics of it just yet do you like this as a move potentially would go up to being blessed by bob iger? >> makes a lot of sense. as people have talked about content navigation and content discovery, it's the biggest challenge. one of the biggest challenges of the digital age, in a world where the audience is so disfuse. anything like espn, synonymous for sports for so many it is a natural move for them, and, remember, content engagement is such a viewer engagement, such an important metric for these platforms. if espn, people know they are reliably a hub, wait where can i find that nba game on just go to espn, that will absolutely increase engagement metrics that really matter to investors. >> is it too late, alex? in other words, are they -- have they already lost enough mind share that people know, amazon that nfl thursdays apple, learning that they have

my games, i don't really need to go to espn to be reminded of that is it too late >> i don't think so. honestly, talk to almost anybody and ask where we are in the streaming game, constant complaint they'll tell you, i don't really know where anything is certainly when i speak to people, goes beyond sports. >> yeah. >> this goes to general entertainment in general you know, beyond, talking about scripted entertainment, talking award shows. whatever it may be. >> absolutely. >> used to be go on your cable tv guide and watch it. much more confusing now. a legit complaint nobody really knows where a given game is, and so i do think it's a smart idea. it's a consumer-friendly idea if espn pull it together. i note, talks in the gauge your interest stage we're a decent ways away from this actually launching. >> anyway i use netflix or

youtube, spend time scrolling what i want to watch as opposed leaving to go elsewhere. how important do you think for the other companies would it be to try to protect that first relationship with the customer what this whole rollout was originally all about. >> do you want to help competitors is always the thing. and refer traffic, increasing funneled customers coming in from an outside source which is great. but do you want to be the second or third place people think of when it comes to sports or finding your team? a dangerous slope and upside is not that apparent for, like, we're going to conceive this over to espn who knows what the plan is in's future change terms of the deal everybody's thought of it, a mind share, then what happens? a dangerous place to be as any media company knows this day and age. >> cynthia, quick last word. >> i think this is an interesting example. espn is the analog espn is somewhat of a problem in a world where old-fashioned cable tv

subscriptions are shrinking but a good example of espn also is incredibly a real hub for experimentation for disney a lot of places that they can go to bring interactivity into this we all know sports betting is going to be a bigger part of es. >> man: in the future. an interesting example of espn as an experimental vehicles for disney trying to navigate the digital age. >> yeah. and could launch a sportscenter on this hub! it's like re-create canning, a blast from the past, but in ways core to its identity a great story. thanks for your reporting, alex. thanks as well to you all. joining us on t"the exchange." that does it for us for today. scan my qr code on the screen or head to the website. coming up on "power lunch," rising rates not stopping buyers in america's most expensive real estate market. we'll take you there live. dom schoo getting ready.

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that's treatt-e-d.com. welcome to "power lunch" alongside kelly evans i'm dominic chu in for tyler mathisen today coming up on the show, rates are rising ten-year yield above 4%. it was at one point. mortgage rates jumping 7% and fed officials saying higher longer how will this play out for the economy and the stock market, well will report. and former until wil player from crying to catch the ball to trying to catch them all how did someone make millions on pokemon cards? we'll talk to him. and all three major averages looking to end the week with gains. nasdaq leading the way