to increasing our renewable fuels production. because as we work toward a lower carbon future, it's only human to keep moving forward. welcome to "power lunch," alongside chekelly evans, i'm tr mathisen efficiency has become the new silicon valley buzz word. >> ww, the company formerly known as weight watchers getting into the telehealth business are they moving from points and pounds to pills and prescriptions. we'll talk to former fda commissioner scott gottlieb in the latest battle against obesity. ugly session after fed chair

powell says rates are likely to be higher than anticipated soft landings out the window after this the dow is down 549 points let's get to kristina partsinevelos with more. >> markets are reacting to the downside the dow is the worst performer right now, driven by fed chair jay powell there was the more aggressive stance he said three main things, he's prepared to includes the pace of rate hikes to fight inflation. the ultimate level of rates will likely be higher, and three, the restrictive policy will be around for some time gina just spoke about that, but those are three reasons you're seeing some of the drive to the downside, and while financial names like j.p. morgan, goldman sachs, tipping the economy into a recession, and you're seeing j.p. morgan down 3%. the yields on the ten-year treasury note, we often talk about it, it's seen as a sign of sentiment on the economy you can see just before 11:00 a.m., back down at 3.96.

here at the nasdaq, which is the best performing indices today. still down, look at that, over 1% at the moment chip names, they're holding up after yesterday's selloff, and up over 2.5% the best performer on the nasdaq 100. nvidia, not too far behind flat at the moment sinking last i checked it was down 12%, after announcing plans to raise $1.3 billion in green convertible notes to help what they say is upcoming vehicles they want to launch. earnings reports from rive restrrivian and lucid, some of the worst performers on the nasdaq 100 right now. >> thank you very much turning to the seemingly never ending tightening in tech. u.s.-based tech companies cut nearly 100,000 of those jobs already this year on top of 14,000 cuts announced last year. this according to crunch base. and now, reports say more cuts

could be coming at meta, on top of the 13% of workers laid off as part of a plan announced last year mark zuckerberg called this a year of efficiency sentiment salesforce ceo marc benioff echoed last week, so is his focus on efficiency good for these tech companies or should tech investors now worry that cuts don't seem to be end something. >> don ford, bachelor number one, bachelor number two, and bachelor number three join us to discuss. john, let me start with you as a global view. this is not good for the workers of these tech companies, obviously, but is it good for the companies in the long run? >> yes >> skand i'll turn and ask you s it good for the shareholders. >> it is good for the companies. what we miss is how much these companies staffed up during the pandemic the growth is head count was huge, and i would say for salesforce in particular, also, this was the poster child for software as a service. this has been a top line growth

company for a long time now. they have been throwing a lot of people on t -- selling this idea, as they bulk of revenue. now that growth has slowed for the first time during the sass era in a significant way, they have to slim down. >> hard to hear it if you're part of the company. maybe they move too fast with too many people. what about the stocks what have they been doing? what do the companies show to move the stocks higher >> the unfortunate truth of these matters is anytime you have a massive cost cutting effort, the stocks tend to react positively it's sad to say in that way or put it that way. there's a human element to all of these things. when it comes to the investor angle or comes to the management angle, to manage around benchmarks that will make investors happy it's about trying to control costs. to many big tech companies, it's about whether or not shareholders can see if there

have been lessons learned from the management standpoint with regard to some of these practices. now, when you have job cuts that come in waves, kind of like what we were seeing perhaps with meta, we haven't seen it fully come to fruition yet. >> we will >> so if we do, what does it say then, a school of thought, you get it all done, a big round, and we're done for a while the school of thought is you're trying to layer them in in scale. the problem with that kind of situation is it doesn't do good for moral at the company, because people are always fearful for what the next round will bring for shareholders, they're wondering whether or not they'll ramp up for hiring to john's point can then be scaled in the future and the reduction scaled as well. that gives them more flexibility, it doesn't work well from an operational standpoint. >> we have seen a doubling of shares off the recent lows we know what elon musk is doing at twitter, and other than the fact that it crashes, it's running with a lot fewer work

force. how much more could there be to come in tech i think that's everybody's question is this -- have both shoes dropped or is this the beginning. >> two things are happening. one, elon musk when he did the drastic cuts after taking over twitter. that gave people permission to do their own drastic cuts. i was actually speaking to one executive about this last week, and he was telling me now that they hear from meta, we want to get rid of middle management or middle managers have to do better everyone else is thinking about that, too. where can we trim the fat in middle management, lower the barriers, especially problem at google, there are so many barriers you have to go through to get a product out the door. the idea is if we can flatten the organization a little bit better, that's the next trend we're going to see. >> the stories from last year, we definitely covered this, all of the laid off tech workers are quickly finding new jobs when do we know if we're reaching a tipping point, i'll

ask you where sundaylddenly it' becoming harder. how much longer can that continue >> first, there's a key difference between a laid off engineer and a laid off worker who worked for a tech company. a lot of these companies are cutting back, not mainly in engineering, twitter is an exception. they're just cutting off of everybody. none of these big companies is doing anything close to that there's a difference between a laid off engineer, if they're highly skilled in ai, database things, and, you know, a recruiter or a salesperson or a sales support person or a marketing person for a salesforce, for example, or for an alphabet. we talk about tech workers, not people who work for tech companies, giving those statistics we're talking about engineers were able to find work, maybe not at another tech company but at an industrial company that needs engineers. >> just a hair off the 52-week

highs, let's not lose hope you mentioned jennifer alias it's not just, jennifer, the fact that google is looking at middle management, they're saying fewer people will get pro motions to single roles, took to be a little bit of a sign of the times. >> right to steve's point, there definitely is an element where google has this reputation of having the sprawling middle management layer and it's prohibited them from efficiently, you know, launching products and whatnot that's well known. it's hard not to see these as cost cutting trends. these are high earners, the senior leaders who they're saying promotions aren't going to happen this year as they did in years past. they earn anywhere from $250,000 annually to a half million dollars. so obviously that's going to help them with some of these cost savings then you have the rapid, you know, real estate savings and asking folks to share desks

which i think will become more of a trend around silicon valley and tech companies certainly not something google employees are used to, especially, you know, having to make them share with a partner and telling them to only come in on certain days. >> right >> i'll share a desk with you, dom. >> i would have no problem because you got some nice real estate in our office. >> i do. i have a corner. >> it's almost like a corner cubicle, if you will. >> here's how i know more cuts are coming these companies set up tougher performance rooeview policies ad that wasn't just for fun >> that's to document. >> exactly >> so that they can do more cuts in the future. they cut enough already up to this point to make up for the growth we didn't get at the end of '22 now that we've got jay powell saying what he's saying about the way forward, we've got economic conditions slowing down these companies are thinking about the cuts they have to make to right size for '23, and these

policies are in place so that, a, they can cut low performance, and, b, they can shift compensation to so the people on the bottom end have to get better or get out. >> the dynamic it's developing, right? we have seen this evolution during the pandemic of this leverage by employees, right, they were in high demand you couldn't pay them enough to join, and there was this land grab, if you will, for talent out there, especially when it comes to engineering tech employees. all of a sudden now, there's been this shift, and it's kind of supporting this overall corporate narrative that the pendulum has swung back a little bit the other way. now some employees are fearful a little bit more about whether or not job cuts will hit them, and they're not asking for as much anymore, so this might all be in the macro scheme of things, tyler, kind of helping to shift a little bit of that fed narrative about whether job cuts are necessary for inflation to slow down. >> we've talked salesforce, we've talked twitter, google,

facebook what about microsoft and amazon, who wants to chime in. what is ahead for those? >> and you can tell me if you disagree, they appear to be largely done as far as mass layoffs, maybe there will be more trending to come, but again, we know what they're focusing on, and they are hiring engineers still. they are hiring. but they also, to the engineering point, they did cut some they canned a lot of people from that metaverse division and things like that, too. in microsoft's case of looking at priorities, and amazon's case, they're looking at how much you're spending on real estate, for example. they just caused h q2's development out in virginia. it's a lot of different aspects from those two, and then we got to talk about apple, no mass layoffs so far, because they did not hire as much during the pandemic as their peers. >> and maybe to put a point on this, one of the things meta talked about is focusing on the layoffs, that's not the only way to cut costs they are cutting investment, i.t. spend, throughout the areas

of strength and otherwise that have been hold ups, and i wonder if that's the next area to watch. we saw this with salesforce too. they're looking everywhere to pull back. it's not just laying off their work force. >> not just laying off their work force, a lot of companies i'm hearing are offshoring more. they started doing this, but part of the lesson of remote work and hybrid work on productivity was for these companies is, yeah you, don't have to be here at headquarters, you can be in another state. maybe you can be in another country, and if you are, maybe we can pay you not just 20% less to live in idaho, but 70% less to live in costa rica, and those workers, i'm hearing, are excited to be on the zoom call, their cameras are on, right, and more and more ceos are thinking, why don't i move more jobs >> the irony of how tech is moving offshore while reshoring the industrial base is also kind of ironic. >> chip manufacturers. >> computer chips. >> you have to prove your value.

>> stock-based competition is another thing on the table for public companies not start ups. >> anywhere that they can. really we'll leave it there, everybody. thank you so much. jennif fed chair powell indicates rates may be higher than some have expected. we will see how that is playing out in the stock and bond market you can see how it's playing out. look at that. plus, s.n.a.p. continuing its rally, up 15% in a week. is this mostly a bet on tiktok getting banned is that a realistic possibility. we'll dig into that coming up on "power lunch." but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers and stores on america's most reliable 5g network. that sounds just paw-fect. terrier-iffic

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welcome back to "power lunch," markets reacting to fed chair jay powell, let's get right to bob pisani at the new york stock exchange. bob. >> faster, higher, longer, traders are scrambling to try to figure out how to position themselves for this higher, faster, longer scenario. we're at the lows for the day. i want to show you a couple of things first, the banks are getting hit hard slowing economy activity, generally bad for banks, low growth declines. higher rates means they have to put higher deposit rates on to attract savers it's kind of a double whammy for banks. there's other things out there there's oil.

oil is being affected by concerns of potentially slower growth than china. oil dropped two bucks. you can see haliburton, high energy names moving to the downside and oil and commodities here, concerns about slower chinese growth, but also slower growth in the u.s. and again, all of these big metals names free port, the leadership group dropped as powell was talking. interestingly, big cap tech did not drop as much i suspect this is because the market is gravitating towards what we call high quality names, names that have good earnings, visibility, low debt and some of these names generally fit into that what we call quality camp there. interesting to see a couple of them in positive territory consumer staples not surprisingly often a place where people go because there's some stability in the earnings there. they generally do better in these situations they're also a little more stable a lot tougher environment to figure out you're going to hear a lot more

about that word quality going forward. >> why don't you stick around and join us in this next conversation as we talk a little bit more on the markets and the fed. we bring in jeremy brian, senior portfolio manager with gradient investment higher, faster, longer, it sounds like the olympic model, jeremy do you agree that's what we're looking at and if so, how can that be good for stocks >> maybe a little bit more but i don't think today's testimony was a dramatic shift of where he's been before from that perspective, our base case hasn't changed much maybe another 25 basis points at this point going forward you know, i think the bigger concern -- >> let me interrupt because i think perhaps there are people in the audience and investment business who now say a half point is back on the table for march. and a half point maybe again

>> entirely possible entirely possible. i mean, you know, so his, you know, the bearish commentary or, you know, the more difficult commentary from that perspective is possible. but, i mean, the probabilities are going up but from our perspective, i mean, the worry is that he goes too far too fast, and that is certainly a concern out there, but i don't think this was a dramatic shift i mean, he was in front of congress and had to give what they've seen as the case, and it may go slightly higher and the probabilities are going up on the assessments of that, but i really don't think this was a dramatic change in pace from what we've seen from him for the past couple of months. and so we're going to monitor, you know, the more important thing for us is honestly the data that's going to come out in the next week and a half is we're going to have a jobs report and a cpi report. that's where the rubber meets the road on this if those are adjusting and going the wrong direction w, we may hv to pivot our rate case.

>> at the same time, i think that gina sanchez did give voice to what a lot of people seem to be thinking post powell, he didn't really try to hint at anything like, you know, maybe january was just hot, and disinflation is still underway he basically just took the numbers and ran with them, and maybe he's spooked by the fact that the bond markets inflation expectations have backed up a little bit that's an important point in all of this. the market itself is thinking inflation looks hotter than it did six weeks ago, and maybe, bob, the fed feels like they have to respond to that. >> he's not spooked by the bond market he's spooked by the data this is where i slightly disagree with jeremy the point he kept making today is inflation is much more persistently remaining higher than we had anticipated, and so we have no choice. we have two mandates we got to keep the job market strong, and we got to fight inflation. job market strong. therefore we have to fight inflation, and we don't have any other instruments other than

keep raising interest rates. i think the message essentially from him, was slightly different and he kept insisting, we're going to have to keep going here that's what the market kept hearing in the middle of the day. the markets levitated itself in believing the soft landing is a reality, and that means, well, we're going to stop at a certain point. the data is not supporting that. we see that. everyone sees what the inflation data was, including the pce report powell sees it too he's simply saying what the facts are telling us now. >> quick thoughts on stocks you have liked they have been slightly problem children recently. johnson & johnson, and maybe even google. >> i can give you all of these the effects of the first two are in an environment where rates are rising the insurance names were very good last year, and we had this reversion of everything that worked poorly last year and vice

versa, these names have been left alone their fundamental case hasn't changed a lot. the insurance companies, especially health insurance companies, we're excited about over all we would add cvs to that position tlg there's not a lot of political landscape. growth rates look pretty good and to be honest with you, interest rates don't affect them to as much of an extent as some of the others. we like that space google and is take advantage of a recent opportunity both have been in the headlines for not great things google obviously i would say fumbled the initial part of the ai conversation. but from a perspective of nextera, it's not done by any stretch. they tend to be a steady, durable growth name, and people

don't chase it with the yield like other utilities google, i don't think the conversation is over by any stretch of the imagination yet, and i think if you just look at who has the best data for ai and chatgpt and those kinds of things, who has the best data? i think it's google at the end of the day so while they fumbled out of the gate, i still think there's a lot of opportunity for them to reenhance and reengage in that space. you're getting it at a decent discount right in. >> gentlemen, thank you very much further ahead on the show, a new bipartisan bill could empower the secretary of commerce to take action against companies based in six foreign adversary nations. a category that would include the popular tiktok app could it really be banned? we'll discuss when "power lunch" returns.

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policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. . big moves on the bond market with fed chair powell's announcement today rick santelli tracking all the action for us. hey, rick. >> hi, tyler demand was pretty good, above average, you can clearly see the 10:00 eastern powell pop and something important happened we all know two-year note yields

are up almost 11 basis points, three's are up almost nine the reason is they could get even more momentum, finally taking out the fall close. that's the only part of the curve. now it's rolling down. three years have done it high yield close from october was 465. well above that now. and if you open the chart up, you can see it's joining the two-year now in the highest closes we've seen since 2007 and if we look at the next maturity, the five-year, i want you to notice how it is not above its fall high yield close, which was at 4445. briefly traded minus 103, the most inverted it's been since 1981 on a closing basis as you see on the chart, and finally, the dollar index, it's one of the few areas that likes the higher interest rates and the fed guidance it's going to close, it looks

like at least a three-month plus high, and fed fund futures, of course, moving in a very knee jerk reaction as one would expect putting in more fed is it going to be accurate time will tell like any other markets, only good is its last closing price. kelly, back to you. >> rick, thank you we're also seeing big moves in energy. strong dollar not helping. oil pulling back 3% after five straight up sessions powell's comments in the stronger dollar are not helping. it can often work against oil making it more difficult to rally more expensive to buy with other currencies weak data out of china didn't help either. that's consistently been a disappointment let's get to bertha coombs for the cnbc news update. >> here's what's happening at this hour, six palestinians are dead in fighting sparked by an israeli military raid in the west bank. that according to local health officials. israel says one of them is the person they were trying to arrest, a suspect in the fatal

shooting late last month of two israeli brothers a senior aide to ukrainian president zelenskyy tells reuters the government in kyiv was absolutely not involved in last year's sabotage of the nord stream pipelines carrying natural gas from russia to europe that's in response to a "new york times" report that new intelligence reviewed by u.s. officials suggests a pro ukrainian group staged the mysterious underwater attack but there's no evidence that group was being directed by any ukrainian government official. and british prime minister rishi sunak touring a border control command center near dover as hi government unveiled legislation to prohibit anyone crossing the channel in a small boat from claiming asylum. the u.n.'s refugee agency says it is profoundly concerned because even those with genuine and compelling cases would be blocked by this rule

back to you, kelly >> i think some tightening of our rules as well. >> absolutely. >> bertha, thank you very much let's tell you what's coming up on "power lunch." weight watchers weighs in to the prescription weight loss business thi this as the market has seen an up tick in ozempic for use in dieting purposes we'll talk about that in moment. because now clean energy is more affordable energy. we've been investing in american infrastructure for thirty years... lowering electricity costs today, and protecting from volatile energy prices tomorrow. so walk with us— and let's make cutting energy costs real.

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welcome back to "power lunch," and check out shares of ww international, formerly weight watchers. it's an under $6 stock, this is on a deal that will get the company into the obesity prescription business. weight watchers is buying sequins which offers telehealth visitors with doctors. users can get drugs like ozempic, used to treat diabetes. in other words, it's shifting their business model quite dramatically 40% of adults are obese, linked to high blood pressure, diabetes, would this be a major way and the right way to tackle the problem. here to weigh in, dr. gothscott

gottlieb, and meg tirrell, welcome to you both. we're not overstating, this is a huge pivot by weight watchers and is this class of drugs showing real staying power >> absolutely. there are analysts in the biopharma who see this class of drugs as potentially the largest ever, and i saw a an interesting note from bmo coming out about this decision by ww or weight watchers to get into the drugs this is coming of streaming for weight loss services it is a huge shift business wise, a huge shift culturally to have weight loss drugs that work at this scale. >> incredible. >> dr. gottlieb, i was talking with a friend about the possible scale of these weight loss drugs. are these drugs going to be potentially the biggest, most profitable drugs over the next generation in the united states?

>> to meg's point, analysts are predicting a lot of growth looked promising in a large trial of 2,500 patients showing weight loss at the highest dose of upwards of 20%. only one of these drugs is approved right now for weight loss in the absence of diabetes. the other drugs being talked about including ozempic are only approved by diabetes we should see the approval coming soon in the setting of patients who have obese, a bmi over 30. and hypertension, or high cholesterol. these are going to be important drugs. i think they're going to provide a lot of public health value, helping patients get to a target weight they need to be used in conjunction with diet and exercise they need to offer a comprehensive solution, couple prescriptions of drugs, and

easier access for patients indicated with appropriate measures like diet and exercise. >> let me probe one more time here, you've got this vast population in the united states, take the united states alone where something like 40% of the population is overweight or obese or whatever the numbers are there. you have that, you have a drug that this class of drugs, as i understand it, are not -- if you start taking them, you stay on them, right, for life basically or you lose the effects and there may be side effects. that is the formula, generally, for what we would call billion dollar block buster drugs, right? no doubt there >> well, look, these are going to be billion dollar drugs not everyone is going to be indicated for this, just because they're overeiweight a lot of people can achieve a target weight by appropriate steps for diet and exercise. these can be important adjunct to trying to get on an appropriate diet and trying to exercise more regularly. they are going to help tackle

the overall o bbesity problem i this country they're not without side effects. there's toll they give you a sense of fullness some patients can't tolerate the side effects you need to make sure you're probably indicated, they're going to get more patients to a targeted weight, who are overweight or obese. >> it's meg. i have seen this class of drugs compared to statens in that you've got to keep taking them forever, keep your cholesterol low. you were the commissioner of the fda. from a regulatory perspective, how do regulators think about drugs that may need to be taken that long, and as a result of how long these drugs have been around and when the phase three trials were run, how much we know about the long-term effects of these medicines, and another risk that may occur after people have been taking these drugs for a long period of time? >> the fda has seen where a chronic administration of drugs over a long period of time,

increase the risk of some side effect seen in the population. we have seen that with the cardiovascular risks only with prolonged administration that you start to see those things become manifest. they will be looking at latent side effects some have gone out long time frames you mentioned the lily trial, and the agency does have a lot of experience as a class they have been on the market for a long period of time. you have had daily formulations, weekly formulations on the market so the agency has a lot of safety data to look at certainly not the kind of chronic administration in younger patients that you're probably going to see in the setting of these moving into a weight loss category you're going to see these used more widely in lower risk patients, patients who don't have diabetes, aren't at significant risk for bad outcomes and you worry a little bit more about exposing patients to risks for benefits that might be achieved through other means

like diet and exercise we need to wait for the fda approvals and labels. >> that's what i was going to probe if you don't mind, you mentioned it, and it's very important. these drugs are not approved as weight loss drugs. do you anticipate, and if so, when might the fda approve some of these medications as weight loss drugs, and second, and also very critical, when, if at all, might they get a medicare coding permission to have medicare reimburse? >> i mean, that will come with the approvals, lily is anticipating an approval later this year. analysts have talked about that. they submitted the data. fda is put on an expedited, i think people are expecting the approvals to come this year, and that's going to open up the category it's going to make reimbursement easier to obtain a lot of insurers right now aren't covering for these uses

even in the off label setting. i think you're going to see reimbursement open up once the approvals come. >> it's the beginning of a new era. and this kind of came out -- i don't want to say out of nowhere, but it came in quietly and it's becoming a phenomenon if this is meant to be prescribed for people that have high bmis, will it decrease their need for them in the future >> it's a great question and a lot of these questions will start to get answered this year, as we get outcomes trials. running a trial to see in the weight loss setting does lowering weight itself prevent cardiovascular events, not, you know, if you have diabetic or something else. >> it's a fascinating topic. on statins, i take a statin, i have for a long time i could probably have achieved much of what the statin achieves for me by changing my diet and exercising more efficiently. and dr. gottlieb said basically

the same thing, a lot of these things, if you change your diet, do your exercise, you need to do that and not merely take a bill, but damnit, the pill is easy. >> people look at my mom and said she's the healthiest person on the planet. it's not a lifestyle issue that's the only way of treating it so anyway, it's ban cash cow, and now there's a whole new source we appreciate both of you being here, and dr. gottlieb. >> nice to have you in the house. >> nice to be with you guys. >> good to see you. >> a quick programming night, ww ceo is going to be on closing bell, sima sistani, we're looking forward to it. is tiktok truly a risk to national security? congress is working to build the power to ban the app in the u.s. is this action warranted we'll talk to a cyber security

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welcome back to "power lunch. we're pretty much sitting at session lows as you can see we have been for the past hour with the dow down 565 after today's comments on rates from jay powell, he talked about inflation having to potentially be higher than previously thought, and markets took that quite hawkishly,

ten-year yield going toward 4% calls for a tiktok ban heating up as senator mark warner is unveiling a bill today to give the commerce secretary the power to potentially ban the app. here's what the senator from the virginia said this morning on "squawk box" about tiktok as a threat to national security. >> they suddenly say we want to make sure you see videos that undermine american democracy or say it's not too bad if xi jinping and the chinese give arms to russia in support of putin illegal invasion of ukraine. that ability, you're thinking 90 minutes a day. young people are on this tool, it has the potential, i think, to pose a national security risk >> meanwhile, tiktok executives are trying to convince european regulators that they can keep user data safe for more on the possible dangers posed by the app and others like it we're joined by david kennedy, binary defense and trusted sec ceo and former nsa, and marine

corps hacker frequent guest here. david kennedy, welcome back, good to have you with us. >> thank you for having me i appreciate it. >> how big of a threat do you see tiktok as being, and would the mere move of re-basing tiktok to american ownership solve the security problems that so many are worried about right now? >> it's a great question i mean, first of all, tiktok is definitely something that is of major concern because you have the chinese government's ability to essentially collect a lot of data on u.s.-based citizens from their target individuals through espionage or direct targeting. china is the best at foreign collection, you know, across the entire world, across the entire people, as well as across the entire world, and there's definitely direct threats and senator warner is correct on the aspects around the content that is being pushed out and the control over that. in stating that, banning an entire company and its product is probably, i think, a bit of an overstep. i think looking at how you could

apply regulations around content, bite dance, by the way, the subsidiary company that is essentially producing tick tok, you know, does have a u.s.-based presence they have concept moderators that are u.s. employees. the content aspect of things is already somewhat corrected for lack of a better term for senator warner's concerns there. but the other aspect around china being able to access that data has not been addressed, and i think that's, you know, some of the main concerns i think it makes total sense to ban it from the government, you know, employees, and owned government devices, but as a whole ban, it seems like a bit of an over stretch and potentially damaging. >> one of the things in the research note, and i gather you pointed it out, with respect to government employees carrying around devices that have ticktok on them, that information could tell the chinese government or communist party where those individuals have been, who they have communicated with so in the hands of let's say an

intelligence officer or military person, you could scrape that data and know exactly where diplomat x had been? >> that's 100% correct, and i think that's some of the main concerns that we need to really take a look at from a tiktok perspective, you know, what type of employees of the government, specifically even d.o.d. contracting and medical research, china is the largest proponent of intellectual property theft in the world, you're talking trillions of dollars of intellectual property theft done all the time. from a cyber warfare perspectiv, they're the most aggressive. it's not just the military and intention officers it's also who houses our intellectual property and this is one source of many if we ban tiktok, there's thousands of other intelligence sources they use as well. >> i'm not so worried that the cia station chief in islamabad is making tiktok videos, nevertheless, is there way to thread this needle

>> i think so. you know, i think what you look at is, you know, an accreditation process essentially to ensure that the data that is being collected on u.s. citizens, very similarly to what we saw from a gdr perspective in the eu around, you know, european citizens ho is protected and stored and ensuring there isn't the ability for the chinese government to take collections on u.s.-based data i think that's more of a reasonable approach than basically saying we're going to upright and go and ban an entire private organization from being able to populate because it does compete in the market space of facebook and twitter and other social media platforms that are out there, i think having more regulation around that and adhering -- making adherence so that is a much better process than trying to outright ban it. >> fantastic, david kennedy, always insightful, thank you for joining us today >> thank you so much, appreciate it >> and bad news for tiktok could be good news for snap, the stock has been surging as its rival

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welcome back we just hit session lows, stocks are down 574 let's do a little three-stock

lunch and look at three names that are higher today or were at last check that includes snap, up more than 5%, big gain yesterday, we just talked about that renewed pressure to ban tick sayoc some big upside movers. let's bring in boris schlossberg, cnbc contributor g% good to see you again, boris >> it is the antitiktok. going forward, it is going to have to be whether the company can grow into where it needs to be to attract advertisers. it is doing well as far as the last couple of quarters of growth goes. if it can reach the user base by 2023, that's half a billion dollars that is enough density to attract advertisers and the other thing is 50% of its customer base is 25 or under

if they can attract more gray beards like me, that will be positive for them. >> let's move on to dick's sporting goods nice numbers on that company and that one appeals to young people, my son is there a lot, buying nikes and i go there too so gray beards to -- >> i think you hit it on the head there, tyler. i think post covid we all want to be outside, we all want to be active dick's is participating in that very well. as long as the economy holds well, consumer incomes continue to grow, i think it is a very, very positive trend stock, only ten times earnings, pretty much four times bigger than the next nearest competitor it dominates the space, i like it long-term. >> there you go. two votes of confidence. does he stick with it for delta? what do you think about delta airlines >> my favorite airline it is literally the best airline as far as consumer ratings go and as far as being on time.

think about delta, think about this, every other airline experience is very negative, delta experience is pretty positive they, i think, projected about $2 billion worth of cash free cash flow of 2023. i think they will beat the numbers. travel continues to be super hot. as long as the economy stays relatively strong, we are definitely want to be traveling. delta is a huge beneficiary of that plus, jetblue spirit getting kiboshed and southwest having problems, it leaves the market wide open for them love the stock. >> is there any stock you don't like you can't be positive on three stocks with a dow down 600 points today >> that's exactly the point. you want to be buying the best stocks in a down market because when the things bounce, they will be leaders to the upside. long and strong, kelly that's the way to go. >> long and strong boris schlossberg, appreciate it >> my pleasure. back to the story of the day. stocks sinking after chair powell says interest rates could remain higher for longer, get there quicker. we'll look at stocks potentially

at risk if that scenario plays out. we'll be right back. lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com.

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come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. dominic chu with a look at stokes that could take a hit. >> they looked at companies with high leverage. a lot of net debt compared to the amount of ebitda plus they have a lot of debt maturing in the next few years, which means they have to refinance at higher rates. check out some of these names that fell on their screen. if you look at the stocks here,

mccormick, mgm resorts, wynn resorts, wendy's, so they could be more susceptible to an economic downturn and rising interest rates. >> the debt matures, they got to roll it at higher rates. oops dom chu, thank you very much we begin with dom, we close with dom. thank you for watching "power lunch." >> "closing bell" starts right now. kelly, thanks so much. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm scott wapner from post nine at the new york stock exchange we begin with stocks in major sell-off mode. a direct result of what fed chair jay powell told congress today that the central bank might go faster, higher and stay longer than originally thought if the economy remains too hot and inflation remains too sticky look at your score card with 60 minutes to go. the dow is sliding, down just about 600 points the s&p has been around that key 4,000 level for mu