it is 5:00 a.m. here at cnbc global headquarters. here is the top "five@5. the banking stocks are catching a bid, but the fallout from silicon valley bank is far from over. and federal regulators trying again to selloff svb. why jim cramer says if it fails again, it could spell big trouble. and bill ackman may be sharing the rescue, but not everyone what citadel is saying. and the rate hiking cycle now in doubt and they are

waiting inflation data to help paint a clearer picture. a crypto crash reversal. as the silicon valley bank rescue brings out the bulls. it is march 14th, 2023 you are watching "worldwide exchange" here on cnbc good morning welcome to "worldwide exchange." i'm frank holland. kicking off the hour with the futures. a wild day of trading yesterday that ended with the dow extending the longest losing streak since back in september futures right now in the green across the board the s&p and dow and nasdaq up .50%. we are also checking the bond market move lower in yields on the heels of the silicon valley bank rescue the 10-year treasury at 3.58 something to watch here. the 2-year treasury yield is 4.173. the spread narrowing in the last

day. afte at last check, 58 basis points, reversal that spread was double previously we are watching oil which is impacted by the svb fallout. wti is $73 a barrel. down 2.5%. brent crude at $79 a barrel. down 2%. natural gas is up 1.5% we are watching crypto with bitcoin above $24,000. a lot of people saying it is count counter intuitive after the closure of silicon valley bank. futures may be in the green in the united states, but in asia, it is a sea of red let's get the action with julianna tatelbaum standing by in the london newsroom good morning, julianna >> frank, good morning

overnight trade in asia, as you said, was down we saw heavy selling across the region nikkei 225 in japan down 2.2%. hang seng suffering steep losses down 2.3%. it was the banking sector, of course, in focus that is driving losses within japan, the tokyo stock exchange index fell more than 76%. w -- 7%. we saw a number of bond yields as investors abandoned bets to see a change and exit from the loose monetary policy in japan all of those lower yields filtering through to the japanese banking stocks. and accordingly they have pulled back substantially in the overnight session. there is the look at the individual movers. as for europe, stabilization coming through in line with the positive picture with u.s. futures, we have green on the board here the stoxx 600 is trading higher this morning the banking sector seeing signs

of stabilization in europe here is the look at the banks. the key movers within europe there is one name that is seeing continued heavy selling. that is credit suisse. the stock down 4%. it is one of the worst performers in europe this morning. credit suisse today is publishing the delayed annual report essentially in it, it identified material weaknesses and internal control in financial reporting which the bank says could require resources to address not only are we seeing a selloff of credit suisse shares, but the five-year rise to 476 basis points credit suisse continues to be a problem within the banking sector outside of that, we have red on the board. the losses is fairly contained with the magnitude this morning. frank. >> thank you, julianna to the top story and continued fallout from the

failure and backstop of silicon valley bank. regional banks hammered in the wake of svb and concerns over the viability of the balance sheet. now catching a bid in a big way. green across the board right now. shares of first republic bank is up 25% western alliance up 18%. this is after the worst single the day drop in years. now trading back to the lowest level since november of 2020 u.s. regulators are set to make a second attempt to sell silicon valley bank after the auction this weekend failed. that is not the only development this morning joining me on the cnbc news line is corporate finance ed or is arash massoudi >> good to be here. >> let's jump into it. a lot of the firms were accused of jumping ship when the problems started

now they are trying to save the bank or parts of the operation >> what characterized the events last week was panic. now the deposits are safe, everyone is having second thoughts for many of the companies, this wasn't just the place that the portfolio companies put money into and deposited they had multiple touch points with financing the vc operations or draw money from lps this bank embodied private equity ecosystem without it, they have a problem. there continues to be a series of phone calls for the past four or five days which began with morphing into the efforts to lobby the federal government to rescue to the silicon valley bank to insure deposits. perhaps they now need to work together and buy the bank out of

the fdic. >> you are using a lot of we and they let's spell it out a dozen vc firms. they have been in talks to save the investing arm. apollo global is a finance company in the mix how do you see this potentially playing out? what could happen this week if anything >> i think it will be hard to tell as you reported and as we heard as well, the fdic is starting a broader auction for this the question is will a big regional bank that did not play ball over the weekend come in or do a piecemeal solution here everything we heard to this point suggests the piecemeal solution is the path forward the situation is changing and it is hard to get a firm answer i think you will see multiple proposals thrown at the wall here over the next five days and maybe we get to an outcome

as the regional banks stocks are up today, we are in a volatile moment it is hard to be definitive. >> great reporting by you, arash. as we mentioned a moment ago, banking stocks appear ready to bounce back this morning. we are looking at the kre which is up 4.765% first republic bank is up 23%. western alliance is up 17% here is the one week losses. first republic down 66% in just the last week. comerica down 32%. we still have a long way to go in all, global financial stocks have lost $460 billion in market value since friday joining me to discuss is r.j.

grant. thank you for being here in person. >> thanks, frank >> everyone wants to know what happens next i want to cover what happened yesterday. a lot of talk over what was going on what is your summation >> as you mentioned at the top of the show, it was a wild and intense trading session yesterday. in the morning, we came in and we were 15 to 1 better for sale on the desk. investors were having that moment where they wanted to get out at any price and didn't care about price sensitivity or liquidity. they wanted to get out of the sector that stabilized and stopped around 10:30 we got through the first hour of trading. we started to see some buyers come in and support some of the really beaten up names. >> you say you got through the first hour of trading. it was hectic. when you look at the broader sector, when we talk about zions bank, are you trading your range

with the buy to sell to neutral? is this an inflection point? >> we haven't. we had been relatively cau cautiouses on the banks over the last year. some of the higher quality names means this is a good opportunity to make outsized returns >> so many questions about the balance sheets with the region the al ba-- regional banks, wha makes the model different? >> one thing i never thought we would see. a lot of investors are asking for secured deposits versus back deposits versus non secured dep deposits the banks with more system operations whether it is venture or tech or crypto. those are the banks we recommend investors going to >> now it is all about deposits.

you know, definitely have tier i capital. for all of the peopling listening, especially retail investors, what is a good metric with the tier i capital? >> i think broader speaking, banks that are well capitalized are the ones that want to go banks looking to raise capital are ones that feel not as strong about the capital base or deposit base we have seen banks like citizens financial and usb and regionals financial. strong deposits are the ones where investors are flocking. >> r.j., i want to bring up comments from jim cramer >> the actions took my breath away some of these are storied. they are saying we are not through the mess and it is

worrisome they could not find their footing with the fed about a s-- fed bazooka the regulators will try a secon auction. if this is successful, the cascading regional banks will buy. if that falls, the flames will fuel s fuel >> a lot hinges on that auction. do you feel the same >> i'm not sure. i think what we saw in terms of the activity and where we go from here is that we saw record amounts of value turned over yesterday. i felt we saw a near-term capitulation in the banks. you know, i feel like the go forward is the activity where investors need to get out and we saw stabilization. we felt the activity and

valuation reset is providing good opportunities for good names. >> i think we are seeing that this morning >> i think so, too in terms of the go forward, we need to understand what the government is going to do in terms of further intervention if they raise protection on deposits obviously, we have to deal with the regulatory fallout what the regulators will do and if they make banks hold more capital. >> a lot of people calling for that r.j. grant, i appreciate you being here today thank you for coming in. when we come back on "worldwide exchange," more on the selloff and the failure of silicon valley bank means more than the fed inflation report. we are back right after this whe k who wanted to supercharge your audit system? so you tap ibm to un-silo your data. and start crunching a year's worth of transactions against thousands of compliance controls with the help of ai. now you're making smarter decisions faster.

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you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. welcome back to "wex." we are gearing up for the inflation read with the rate hike strategy. the fed cpi report showing inflation high, but down from the january reading. ahead of the read today, the fed is expected to continue to raise rates and tamp down high prices. new this morning, the team at nomura are betting the central bank will cut 25 basis points next week and stop reducing the size of the balance sheets let's bring in delano saporu and

mark avallone. delano, i'll start with you. cpi in a few hours a month ago, it was a huge market mover does it have the same meeting with svb >> frank, thank you for having me i think it does have the same meeting. if you look at the comments from the fed over the past several months, we are still looking at inflation being the biggest thing the fed is trying to combat thankfully for a lot of consumers, unemployment mark hasn't moved much. i don't think that moves much until we get to summer so, if that is the case, if cpi numbers come up and the print is hot later this morning, i still think the fed is raising rates and continuing to let go a little bit of the balance sheet. >> mark, same question for you again, cpi is a huge market mover. when jay powell testified before congress, he said the fed is

watching this data point along with the jobs report before making the decision. that was before svb obviously. >> we don't want the fed to be tone deaf to what is happening in the banking community, but they have to maintain the fight on inflation that is what they said if they start letting mismanagement and huberous and stupidity govern their monetary policy, that doesn't send the right signal we expect the fed to continue their march against inflation and certainly not 50 bps from last week, but more in the 25 range. >> mark, i'll stick with you does it change your view on the economy? the banking sector was in trouble. does this change the base case for the s&p or thoughts of the

potential recession coming up? >> it doesn't dramatically change our base case for might recession. it does make it more likely because banks will be under heavy scrutiny the lending standards may raise. it is bad credit drives out good credit that creates a chill in the market the slowdown in the extension of credit will exacerbate the effort by the fed to put the brakes on the economy. we think mild recession is more than likely. >> delano, the relevancy of cpi after svb. how are you balancing portfolios now? does that change the balance >> i think since the beginning of the year and to the end of last year, we continue to buy there are two areas we think

where things will go from here if the finflation data is hot, w think there are more rate hikes. for investors, you want to position in one portfolio. keep your good portion of cash in treasuries and high yielding, safe areas look at deeper risk. if you saw the move with cryptocurrency and other areas, that may be high growth with smaller amounts of money, investors can look at that we have seen a change. those are the areas that move in that regard. >> delano, ready to take on risk mark . >> if you are looking at the fed eventually pausing and slowing the economy down, i think lower rates will move tech back into the favorable column

it has gotten beaten down. mega tech has gotten the memo of cut expenses and care more about the boardroom than the gameroom. the income results and balance sheet will continue to improve they may be a safe haven for some investors when times are volatile we are not abandoning tech trade. >> care more about the boardroom. mark coming up with the lines. delano and mark, thank you. ahead on "wex," the next guest is calling the silicon valley the big tech version for fundamental change keep it here more coming up on "wex." wow! it's been 38 years since we were here.

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if you're out there. if you're looking for more. we're looking too. we're calling on a new generation of builders for navy's next-gen submarines. welcome back a look at the futures. a bit off the highs from earlier today. the dow jones industrial average and s&p and nasdaq in the green. could we see a turn in the markets? we have to wait and see. the leading stocks in the pre-market in the s&p. they are all banks first republic bank up 21% zions bank up 10%. time for the check on the other corporate stories. silvana henao is here with those. good morning, silvana. >> frank, good morning a california appeals court ruling in favor of uber and lyft

to treat employees like contractors. classifying drivers as ics was unconstitutional it also upholds california proposition 22 which preserves the gig economy. uber afternd lyft are looking f paid insurance for drivers shares moving higher on the news. gitlab is tumbling 30% reporting a smaller than expected fourth quarter loss and revenue beat forecast. the guidance for the first quarter and year is well short of the estimates earlier this month, gitlab said it was increasing prices for the subscription for the first time in five years. shares of united airline are falling as the carrier reports a

loss lower in january and february and higher capacity has weakened its pricing power. it expects higher costs from the potential contract deal with its pilots frank, i tried to buy a trip on united and it was expensive. >> can we ask where are you doing? >> i was trying to go to colombia i had to go with another airline. >> were you trying to get your points >> of course >> i go with the cheaper fare. >> i went with the cheaper fare. >> some people are all about points silvana henao, see you later on. as we head to break, if you haven't already, follow our podcast. if you miss us, check us out on all podcast apps tune in for mike santoli who

sits down with dan miles you can see more on cnbc.com back in a moment stay with us i think i'm ready for this. heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?!

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internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. it is 5:30 a.m. in the new york city area we are just getting started on "worldwide exchange. investors bracing for the read on inflation amid questions around the fed's rate hiking plans. futures in the green, but in a holding pattern.

rfederal regulators looking for a buyer for silicon valley bank the full story coming up. we learn new details of insider selling at the firms it is tuesday, march 14th, 2023. you are watching "worldwide exchange" here on cnbc welcome back 5:30 a.m. in the new york area 9:30 in london let's pick up with the check on markets after monday's volatile session. futures as we said in the green. up .25% across the board dow is opening up 50 points higher it is still early. we continue to watch the bond market and moves in yields and fallout over silicon valley bank the 10-year treasury sitting at 3.600. the 2-year treasury at 4.211 as we mentioned, the pull back

on the inversion of the yield curve is something to watch. that is a recession indicator. we want to get a check on oil facing the pull back and impacted by the svb fallout. wti crude at $73 a barrel. down 2.5%. this is at the low of 2023 brent crude is $79 a barrel. we are checking cryptocurrency bullish sentiment. bitcoin above 21,000 the crypto complex in the read solana is hardest hit down 3%. this is the last major crypto bank in the u.s. which is silicon valley bank followed by

signature. the bank stocks and regional banks are bouncing back this morning and bouncing back in a big way. first republic up 22%. pacwest up 30% western alliance up 20%. this as sources tell cnbc regulators are trying to auction off silicon valley bank after they were unable to do so over the weekend. we have team coverage this morning. cnbc kayla tausche is tracking latest in d.c we have robert frank and ben harburg is joining us on the collapse which has impacted the vc sector. ka kayla. >> reporter: frank, the fdic was unable to sell the bank of silicon valley bank over the weekend and they will be trying to find a buyer. although in the words of one

source, it gets less likely with each passing day we also know that president biden is traveling on his second day in california. he fielded many questions of the failure of the bank and what is means for the economy. he did not respond to the questions he received beyond the prepared remarks yesterday the chorus of democrats crying foul over regulations rolled back in recent years is growing. representative ro khanna, from silicon valley, tweeted and lambasted the administration of trump for rolling back the requirements an op-ed from elizabeth warren she said had congress and the federal reserve not rolled back the oversight, svb and signature would be subject to stronger liquidity and capital requirements to withstand

finan financial shocks because they were repealed, the bank could not withstand the pressure and signature's collapse was close behind. now discussion over what new regulations could follow there is a discussion around whether to reinstate the dodd-frank regulations, but new requirements forcing the banks of the size to hold more of their own long-term debt which could be treated as capital if they were to fail incorporating interest rate movements into stress tests after the 2008 financial crisis on which they were designed. there is discussion with testing asset and liability mismatch it wasn't just treasuries declined in value, but silicon valley bosught with its deposits now it should be noted any

changes would take months at best to institute. frank, one of the nearest term changes that could be made and one that has a lot of political support in washington is clawing back some of the stock or the windfalls the executives got days before the bank's collapse. >> a lot of talk in d.c. and on main street. also take on comments from the market voice and pointed comments from ken griffin. he says the u.s. backstop of svb is american capitalism breaking down before his eyes. he added a loss of financial discipline in the government and bailing out depositors in full it would have been a great lesson in moral hazard very different from the strings of tweets from bill ackman who is praising the rescue >> reporter: ken griffin is arguing that if you believe that your money is safe anywhere, you won't really be judicious where

you put it or how you invest essentially, a lesson needs to be learned and company needs to be an example. the reason the regulators did what they did in this case is not just because of silicon valley bank, but the federal reserve and fdic believe by letting silicon valley bank fail and depositors, the small companies, not all based out west and not all technology companies, that there was a systemic risk to the economy that people did not get paid and livelihoods were on the line which means a spike in unemployment and impact on the economy. the reason the regulators stepped in is not because of one bank, but because of the systemic risk to the overall economy and i like to see griffin's response to that argument >> good chance he might be on air. kayla, thank you silicon valley bank is not the only company seeing losses on

the balance sheets some tech companies with unrealized losses in the billions microsoft with more than $2.5 billion in unrealized losses in treasuries according to the latest filing, alphabet with over $2 billion. we could be headed to a bonanza with the bonds and portfolios. i spoken to a microsoft investor who says this will not change the view on the stock, but has impact on earnings what we are seeing is not a surprise as yields soared last year, the top s&p companies had a $27 billion loss in q 2 from unreal ey unrealized losses. amid the backlash of silicon valley bank, we had more on regional banks and to talk about that is robert frank

>> good morning. selling more than $84 billion of stock. since 2021, he sold under $30 million in stock most of the sales were when the stock price was between $200 and $600 a share that stock no longer trading the ceo and cfo of svb selling millions of shares becker sold that as part of the 10b51 plan he purchased lower options as part the sales ro khanna says becker should give that money back from the stock sale and there should be a clawback of that money shares of first republic are down 74% so far this year.

down 60% yesterday executives cashing out nearly $80 million of shares since 2021 jim herbert sold over $28 million in shares. including $1.7 million last month. most of the sales were between $120 and $180 a share. frank, those shares now showing pre-market bounce at around $39. lots of attention on that $3.6 million share sale literally two weeks before this happens. a lot of calls for some regulation around the share sales. >> you were mentioning a program he did the share sales through i think the big question here is are regulators taking a look at the executive share programs and especially the timing? >> yeah. these are 10b51 programs where

the executives schedule the sale of the shares so it doesn't look like they are selling on news. s.e.c. chair gary gensler describing them as fig leaves when executives have information and they say it was a 10b51 plan under this proposal, these shares are not possible for becker you should wait 90 days before you create the program to when you sell them. this program that becker created was created in late january. less than a month later that he sold the shares after creating the program. i think this could only sort of accelerate the time lline for imposing the 10b51 programs. >> people on capitol hill will look at how this played out. robert frank, thank you. coming up, more on the

collapse of silicon valley bank. msa capital's ben harburg lays out the hurdles for the ripple effects still yet to hit "wex" is back in a moment. stay with us with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity

welcome back to "wex." the ripple effects hitting tech and life sciences companies.

roblox is one of the significant deposits with silicon valley bank for more on what this means for the landscape, i'm joined by ben harburg. a beijing vc firm ben, great to have you on. i think we need to get into it what does this mean for vcs? i know that is a particular culture and drives innovation in the u.s. and around the world. why should we care about the impact of the vcs? >> that's vcs are the economy of the culture. these is the next wave the evolution. if these companies that will form the next generation of uber and airbnb is undermined and thrown to the death today, we won't have the companies to sustain the technology

leadership and drive employment and economic growth over the coming decades. >> interesting you say it is also silicon valley bank which is the life blood for vcs overseas especially in china. as a u.s. based investor, most of the audience is u.s. based. why should we be concerned about this in other countries? >> this underlines the potent of the u.s. dollar. many have witnessed bank runs in the last years and never expected a similar sentiment or experience out of their western banking partners if these runs sustain, global economies will look for other trade and financial partners as you see in china doing business with middle eastern governments in the energy space. it is critical that american banks be seen as the most

stable, secure place for capital if we want to sustain financial leadership >> interesting we are talking macro let's talk about companies you support. what are they telling you about the collapse of silicon valley bank and how does that change your business going forward? >> they could not get attention from traditional banks it is not they were doing anything risky, but too small for people to bank or take money in for traditional banking services like payroll and deposits. for the challenge of the entrepreneurs and startups, they have to look for other financial partners they cannot laterally move to the top five u.s. banks. the challenge for them is to find stable partners to continue the services in the already challenging environment for tech

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welcome back to "wex." u.s. regulators set to make a second attempt to sell silicon valley bank after an auction this past weekend failed jim cramer says if it fails again, the banking sector rout could continue. it is not just regulators. vc firms are working on a long shot plan to preserve silicon valley bank and including catalysts. this come ago mid friday and yesterday's banking selloff. in all, global financial stocks lost $465 billion in market value since friday hardest hit is the regional banks with the sector coming off the largest drop in years. now trading at the lowest level since november of 2020

regions bank is trading 21% lower today. concerns of charles schwab closing down 12% yesterday and erasing the found's net worth. and cpi is out at 8:30 a.m. eastern. headline cpi is forecast to come at 6% year over year against 6.4% back in january experts are split if the numbers are enough to push the fed rate hike next week pricing in a 20% chance of a pause next week and the 73% chance of a quarter point hike last week, there was a 770% chance of a 50 point hike.

let's bring in sarah house and erin gibbs sarah, i'll start off with you cpi at 8:30 this morning is it still a big deal as svb overshadowed the entire thing? >> it is important for the markets. in the short-term, it has taken a backseat to the other market developments if we see market conditions calm down, people will look through the report what we are looking for is a strong print on cpi. on the headline basis, but also the core >> erin, what about for you? your balance in portfolio and investment opportunities do you believe that cpi still has the same weight on the fed specifically jay powell on capitol hill testifying before silicon valley bank. they would watch the jobs report and cpi report >> certainly, i think this may

be the one report where it will be less important, let's say, than prior months. as long as the trend continues, we have been slowly declining will assure the fed. right now, the immediate concern is the potential bank failures and just what we're seeing in the bond market. they are good at predicting what with the markets are and they are expecting something less than 50 bps. maybe 25 or 0. that is what the market is expecting. >> sarah, let's say we have no hike at all. there is a potential for that. the fed futures are pricing in some of that what does it mean for the broader economy? does that tell the economy one message that goes counter to the fed saying they will be steadfast to reduce inflation? >> i think it depends on what we see beyond march it is possible we see the fed pause for march and let things

calm down. if you continue to see hot inflation and the measure is put in place by the fed facility and working to calm fears, then you could see another hike come may. i don't think this spells the end of the tightening cycle. i think even if it does suggest the fed needs to be a little more cautious with their stance, i think it could end up with the fed potentially just sitting where they are in terms of the fed funds rate for a while it doesn't necessarily mean cuts i think there's still a lot of different scenarios that we could see that could suggest that could lead to pressure and slowdown >> sarah, is this what the fed is trying to do it slow down the market and test the market is this an unintended consequence here for something in the market in the economy to

break down >> i don't think it was intended to break anything. what we did see from the fed is they wanted to tighten financial conditions because that is the channel with which monetary policy works that puts downward pressure on inflation. tighter financial conditions are a feature, not a bug of fed policy of course, the speed and how quickly we get there matters i think what we have seen over the past few days is quick for the fed. >> erin, i saw you nod a minute ago when i said that to sarah. what is your take as far as finding opportunities in the market now in the wake of silicon valley bank? i know you have picks. there are certain sectors you are looking at here? >> not so much in the u.s. equities right now i think it could be a fast trade to get into the regional banks and a bunch of etfs to buy

broadly rather than focus on some extended pops for the day rather than trade that volatility, i like the dollar trade. the dollar against the baskets that dropped off rather quickly in the past couple days. it is still in a prolonged extended trade extended up since the lows in february i think that is another one you could use a little more long term you don't have to trade it within two days. there is a etf that i think you can use to play off the rate change and expectation sdp >> erin, ryan air and lvmh you are trying to get out of the u.s. with the picks. >> i have been a fan of europe and performance. despite the down turn in the european market, they are looking to rebound for the day i'm a fan of tourism and luxury

trades and despite stronger dollar, those stocks have been out performing. >> thank you both for being here that will do it for us here on "worldwide exchange." congp xtbox" is mi une thanks for watching. i think i'm ready for this. heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! it's official, america. xfinity mobile is the fastest mobile service. and gives you unmatched savings with the best price for two lines of unlimited. only $30 a line per month. the fastest mobile service and major savings? can't argue with the facts. no wonder xfinity mobile is

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good morning regional bank stocks getting a slight bounce today after they suffer the biggest decline in years in yesterday's session we will show you what is moving now. key inflation data heahead. look out the cpi number is hot. it could put the fed between the rock and hard place. we which -- we will explain.

we have unite the airlines with warning we have the interview with ed bastian. it is tuesday, march 14th, 2023 and "squawk box" begins right now. good morning welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc we are live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm becky quick along with andrew ross sorkin joe is off today let's look at the markets. we are seeing more calm today. the dow futures are indicated up 87 points. s&p up 10. the nasdaq up 26 yesterday was a down day for the dow and s&p. the losses were muted. down 50 for the dow and less than 10 points