from bank earnings on the 14th last night, they said, we think the deposit outflows is nearly

over, but they think there is a sleepy depositor that is waking up wait a minute, i haven't made any moves. maybe i should >> that's what paychecks was saying, which is, if you call them and krouyou're a customer,y where is your $700,000 well, it's with blah, blah bank. split that among three banks whoever get that, and, listen, just now, former big-time regulator, they say, if you're a bank, say, maybe i should make that loan to a company that's trying to have a third store that should impact then economy, but not yet. it's too quick it's like, people don't -- they're just not making decisions that quickly they may be on the fence i've been trying to check all the retailers to see, have people paused there? well, in some of the smaller ones, yes. the pause has got to happen. it just hasn't yet. >> right

do you think we're going to wind up -- i mean, we do this every quarter with earnings, where the be banks kick us off, the mood is sour before we graduate to tech and media. >> exactly what will happen. jpmorgan, the stock was up but now it's down a half turns out the interest margin is not that good. wells fargo looked terri riff b there's regulatory problems. i mean, i hate to say i've seen it before, you know. it's like season two of a bad netflix. wow, this one isn't holding up yet, that's what happens look, i like wells fargo we're not going to make any money in it, sorry sorry, jim cramer, you're not making money on that it is written, like, the book is written. >> we do have a downgrade today. morgan stanley cut schwab. >> that's a pinata enough. >> you've been saying that. >> nothing to do step on ants. >> they cut the target down to 68 they were at 99. >> i know.

i read that and said, well, i guess that's going to hurt schwab again, and then someone from schwab will buy more stock. someone will re-recommend schwab they're a premier franchise in the world, but everybody is reassessing how much they have at a particular bank if you haven't, then you just haven't read the haeadlines why do you have $400,000 at any one place? it just is not worth it. >> right. >> that's what i think is happening all over the country people are saying, you know what, a charity might have $700,000 in community bank now, they have to pull out that much and put it in another bank. no one wants a meeting, "well, why do you have all your money with this community bank"? >> right. >> that's going to hurt. it will hurt >> diversification. >> yes, it'll hurt. >> jim mentioned this new note out of need ham about apple and disney quote, there is material upside for apple if it buys disney by

using shares apple is worth 15% to 25%, she argues, more if combined with disney my first take was, what is laura up to? we'll talk to her later today. >> i've been mulling this over you could immediately say, okay, she had nothing to do, as she did the opposite if you look at disney, you say, the price is wrong there's more value to the franchise. who can bring out the value of the franchise? apple. apple is a stocking horse for her to say, look at disney the stock is down big. could be a lot of good things happening. we can't come up with a way too bring out the value. we're not pulling for some of the parts. well, way to say it's worth a lot of money, say, look how much more apple can make. better than buy now, save later in four segments. >> it's a hypothetical >> a good one. i want to hear from her.

frankly, i think disney is ridiculously low i've been trying to come up with the pieces that say, how does it get high center you have to brainstorm and realize this is worth a great deal to someone else meta is not going to be bought by anybody, but you realize tha doing well instagram search might have advertisements if alphabet were to buy meta -- but it's not going to happen -- it's a way to be able to create a conversation around stocks that are undervalued. >> interesting the other, of course, piece about news in disney is this board in florida arguing disney passed language that ties their hands, i mean, the framework right now is, don't mess with disney >> bob iger, obviously, is trying to find money where it can be made. now, he did close, what, a little office in new york for a man who created -- who had owned

unbelievable franchise, largest shareholder. he's taking no prisoners, tnp, as they say in the nfl he won others lost. now, he is cleaning house. he got rid of the metaverse spend. that's a curse word now. >> joe was asking you friday. >> yeah, the force is not with me, metaverse. it's just become something that's become the laughingstock. when you look -- when you click on the ad for metaverse, when you look at the zuckerberg ads, well, it's like the natural history museum then i say, go to the natural history museum for schools, it's great. the problem is, k through 12 has never been a way to raise numbers, except if you're doing air-conditioning for training and carrier. there's a bill in congress that makes a lot of money for air conditioners it's not working >> yeah.

>> people want what jensen is giving them. they want real avatars they don't want joke avatars we don't want to look like a cartoon character. we want to look like ourselves. >> yeah. >> maybe can clearer skin and a little more hair or something. >> you know what we need to make that happen? nvidia, i assume that's the answer. >> it's the answer to everything. >> jim mentioned a pdisney move regarding the marvel chief listen to this, not too listening ago. >> we bought marvel in 2009. i promised he could run marvel after that not forever but after that in 2015, he was intent on firing kevin, who was running marvel studio, moviemaker at the time i thought it was a mistake and prevented it from happening. >> that created ill will, you think? >> well, you'd have to -- you'd

have to ask ike about it he was not happy about it. i think that unhappiness exists today. >> cleaning house? >> yeah. look, i'm a believer in having someone who built an incredible franchise that made you a lot of money in the tent rather than out. i think that probably people like board meetings to go smoothly but ike, i think people feel, ike was getting $40 million in dividends. what is he getting now nelson the same. maybe shake things up. nelson withdrew after iger basically said he'd do all five things can iger do it overnight no, it's not right but the illuminating of ike perlmutter, that's not getting the stock to 120 sorry. >> obviously, we've been watching the layoffs in progress at disney. today, we're going to add roku to the list, jim

6%, couple hundred jobs. "the journal" has an item about electronic arts, as well. >> yeah. roku, what is interesting, if you go back to roku's last quarter, we were told it was okay but everyone seems to have found this -- they're looking at what zuckerberg did at meta and saying, okay, let's do some reviews. let's see whom you don't need. these are all white collar, based in silicon valley cuts we are not seeing in the rest of america cuts we're still seeing how hard it is to get good employees we've got two countries. you have the country that overhired and paid people a lot of money, and then you have the rest of the country kind of doing okay do we want to extrapolate the rich man's problems? no that's what -- again, i mean, i think there is an undercurrent in the country look at restoration hardware, now rh, okay, we see who is being hurt the people who have money. but the people who don't have

money, they can still pick a job. >> right i think it was waste management who said, i can hire an mba student, pay them 60k, but i can't get the driver for 90k. >> instant engineers because of chat gtp i can be an engineer railroad engineers in short supply. still to come, gary friedman is speaking out about housing, the economy and more on the earnings call last night shares down about 4% lot to get to regarding the banks. still some retail news there's some china news, as well, between baba and now jd. more "squawk on the street" in a moment td ameritrade, this is anna. hi anna, this position is all over the place, help! hey professor, subscriptions are down but that's only an estimated 15% of their valuation. do you think the market is overreacting?

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powell gets this out of control, somebody make him president of the united states the people here in the '70s, completely screwed it up you know, so right now, i'm betting on powell. i wasn't happy he thought it was, you know, temporal and they didn't move fast enough, but i'm happy with the stance he's taken. i think that there's no way the government can't backstop, you know, people's savings if we continue to have runs on banks and have banks lend other banks money, and banks, you know, the whole thing is a mess.

i think yellen told everybody to calm down, this is what the government will do no more runs on banks. powell ought to take the interest rates to wherever he has to take them to to kill inflation, then we can get back to normal. >> that's gary friedman on the call last night. expansive comments from a guy who runs a household firm. >> i miss the old gary the old gary was like, look at this lounge outside, and you get the whole -- and i'd buy it. my wife is a member of the club. i'd send him pictures, and he'd say, "now you're talking." now, i have this existential gary friedman. i mean, honestly, gary, i love gary gary is the premier merchant of our year he did tack on some of the old stuff about the silver spoon, but -- and he makes a lot of sense. the issue i have with gary is he's the foremost merchant of the greatest quality mass

production, to some degree, of our era. i just want to shake him and say, gary, don't forget who you are. you are making unbelievable things don't forget he talked about the great british -- i want to go see the tremendous british program he has. it's still so much fun to go up. >> yeah. >> he opines on things he has every right to do it, but he has to remember the core mission and he can't get too negative the stores are gorgeous. there is enough money to buy his things the prices are reasonable. he doesn't have the big problem anymore with china but he starts talking about jay. if i want to hear a jay thing, i'll go to mr. wilson. >> absolutely. so what about the shares at this point? >> he talked me out of it. we're doing a piece tonight on k "mad money." i was saying, oh, my god, recommending wayfair we were talking. i said, gary is going to get out of the funk and talk about the

unbelievable lamps we're putting in our beach house it's going to start roaring. no i finished it and said, "oh, my god. geez, i better not buy anything. geez, the grim reaper is coming. forget the chaise lounge." >> wouldn't he be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel >> he was the first to call it because we all await what he is going to say he was first to say, look, things are getting bad i thought this was his opportunity to say, i've analyzed it. everybody now knows how things are bad. let me tell you about the new things we have in the store because it's the most exciting time we are not -- remember, we're gallery. warehousemen mentality, it's ne been better. i did an instagram with my daughter there, but now i don't want to do twitter. >> jeff talked to the man retiring from macy's next year

here's what he said. >> it's ready for me to hand it off. you know, i'm a 40-year veteran of this company. just know that i wasn't going to hand it off until the company was ready, until the talent was ready. >> we'll watch that between our age, our macy's interview. >> kingsbury, burlington, that was not an -- i've literally just like d kohl's, then i saw the $2 million buy-in. i have to revisit and see what he sees. now, gennette hands off macy's after just being, how many -- i mean, he had covid, a bad balance sheet, had the -- you know that the super department stores are under challenge omni he's done it all, and he's given it to bloomingdale's, really good numbers. >> comps are good. remember the summer of '20, when

we were single digits? >> yeah. >> there were existential conversations. >> there were. i think the store looks quite -- well, i go to the main one the store looks good but i think jeff said, all right, now the balance sheet is okay let's give it to another guy, fresh eyes it'll be exciting. i think -- i was at bloomingdale's last weekend, and it looks really good rh was next to it. i was in a good mood i was in a good mood, didn't want to be bumped down wow, i stay away from that one. >> we'll get cramer's mad dash at the opening bell. retail, upgrade of walmart what we see on spending for that front as futures hone in don't go away. then customize a netapp cloud services solution to integrate data management for all your clouds, helping you reduce spend, improve security, control data 24/7 and automatically detect anomalies. in the cloud, at least.

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time for cramer's mad dash as we count down to the opening bell. >> why was net flicflix going u? a week later, the wells fargo piece was talking about, well, you have to play -- pay to hit play what they're saying is, canada, you know, where they cut off people, they're all coming back there is international upside. revisions likely attractive entry point this should get up 10, 11. even though it is exactly what we thought last week at this time, doesn't matter netflix, again, is part of the incredible group we used to talk

about all the time things are just better than you think. now, we all watch netflix. we try to figure out what life would be like if they cut us off. the answer in canada was like, we don't need netflix. then it turns out, they needed netflix. this one going to go higher on the wells call because there's upside for a company that we all know is a great company. >> yeah. the ad tier, i mean, for coming out of nowhere, it impressed a lot of people. >> i just think -- i read this and said, i'm meeting margaret who works with me on the club, and i said, netflix, maybe we should have an ad tier it's like, wow, it worked. then again, netflix is probably more interesting than club, but don't rule me out. i just think this is the kind of piece that says, oh, good, there is another one >> you mentioned the youtube piece earlier. >> yeah. >> we had some constructive comments on the ad market. we talked to general mills yesterday. they're spending is robust

>> general mills, people don't understand, that is the best consumer packaged foods company right now. they had both higher volume and higher price, and they made that blue buff acquisition. people were laughing but no one is now. >> we'll keep our eye on staples, obviously there's the opening bell the cnbc real time exchange at the big board. it is "investor relations" magazine the nasdaq development, a critical minerals company celebrating a recent listing via spac. >> look at the green there. >> here we go again, jim. >> i think that until something bad happens in the banking system, you're kind of like, all right, we've got this moment, a clear-sailing moment where we can speculate the sales are going to be weaker, homes are going to be weaker, but it's

not. companies who are in the auto sales game, maybe not as much. homes are good there's some trade down. go back to the last call, there's a little trade down. yesterday, we had some downgrades of some of the apparel places they're coming right back. there's just not enough right now to hang your negative hat on i think the bears are struggling because they had such a run for a couple days. wow. must be so much fun for them let's take apart, you know, pack west, whatever, pak cman alibaba is good. >> that's what i was going to get to. >> we mentioned the baba news yesterday, but wires have then eyeing the logistics arm for maybe a $20 billion hong kong ipo. jd. >> eyeing taiwan to take it over and jd to make more money. let's -- let me cramp the

theory the communists are trying to get things going again they are able to do ipos people will be very excited. we can't our ipos, well, i don't know, i mean, i haven't seen -- you have to go back a long time before you've seen this few ipos. >> right. >> when you do, they tend to be chinese companies that are $30 million. it's amazing the chi nnese are providing excitement it's easy to speculate it's easy to do a breakup than disney and apple. >> premier league giving a speech at the forum in asia. basically pleading with board rooms to say, look, we are creating a, quote, safe environment for business their new charm offensive. >> i think tim cook gave, you know, the magnificent moment nike, i'm not as high on nike as, say, holding, but nike is back doing well. i know that howard schultz is not running starbucks anymore. >> called to lulu yesterday.

>> it was so impressive yesterday. i don't think people even know the earnings power coming on the stock can go higher because they really scratched the surface in china look, china doesn't look how things got in terms of business, but militarily, i think we can't be foolish >> it does bring us -- i want to make sure we mention this "wall street journal" journalist, evan gershkovich, who has been detained first u.s. journalist to be detained since 1986. >> really terrible. >> it's going to add another layer of complication regarding ukraine at least and russia. >> in the meantime, russia will have a hard time exporting wheat. the shutdown on that front there was an amazing piece, jpmorgan talking about alternatives to energy once again, it seems the russians are just -- they were very, very powerful in terms of western europe they've kind of, like, gotten -- they've taken themselves out of the equation a little.

there's a story about how they got a new jet, but russia just is not winning >> yeah. >> they're not winning. >> let's keep our eye on the nasdaq today we talk a lot about the ndx, the nasdaq 100, but the overall composite now at 12,022, that's a high intraday since, say, mid february. >> let's think about this. i've been spend ag lot of time thinking about what's happening in the market. we're going to be possessed by the yield curve. the yield curve tells us what that is happening isn't happening, but it is i mean, we are possessed here sometimes about what the u-curve is saying, but it's kept you from making a lot of money on the one hand, we have to take a look at it i'm doing a piece tonight about seven industries that should show there's a lot of problem by judging the yield curve, and it's not we should look at that chart, the 2-year and 10-year, and we

can be possess ed by it, or we can go help people make money. i'm siding with the latter course of that. >> are you saying -- there we are at 57 basis points we remember when it was 100. are you saying it's been a false tell >> yeah, it's kept you from making a lot of money. this has been an amazing quarter. you had to go back to -- you know, i think the 10/2 took you out of salesforce. it took you out of netflix it took you out of nvidia. it just didn't do anything for you. but it's so easy i mean, last night, i wanted to watch some stupid show that one of our people was talking about, and i decided, no, i'm going to take home everything about timeshares talk about something that should be -- you know, you have the financing for timeshares i keep looking for something to happen that indicates the 10 and 2 is right i don't get it

in the end, i should have watched "night agent." >> put it on the show. >> i was watching season two of "yellow jackets. i was coaching girls soccer. that was as important to me as where the 4-year is. >> the dow leader -- >> great. >> i know you hate it. >> intel is good, buy amd. look, intel is, what is it, not as bad as it used to be? what am i supposed to say? i mean, intel, it got to a point where it's just too inexpensive. there is the cpu path. when you listen to micron, they told you intel has a legitimate product ahead of it. >> you can see where it defended 25 three times, boom, boom, boom, right? >> well, triple bottomed. >> yup. >> i'd like to have more of a story. >> meanwhile, disney as the

second dow gainer, think that's about the needham, though? >> honestly, yes. >> really? >> i have gotten so many emails about, are you aware about the upcoming apple/disney merger fr frankly, i'm so focused on the walmart/target marger, i forgot about the apple/disney merger. >> glad you brought up walmart they were 145, go to 160 >> did you read that you know, that was a filler-up piece. sam's is doing a little better you know, omni channel no, there was nothing. it was just something to say i'm not blasting it. i think walmart is undervalued i had them on when they reported it was a good quarter. they're playing catchup, and it should there's just -- there was nothing to hang your hat on there. >> sure. >> just nothing. >> yeah. >> nothing. >> bet more than a one-month high for walmart i'm thinking back to the chart earlier in the week that looked at curbside, which is less

diluted than delivering to your house. it is making huge impacts on ecommerce. >> yeah. i mean, look, during my search tonight, i have to watch a new netflix show, i went over the real estate investment trusts involved in shopping ecom ecommerce, you know, the pickup, it continues to work i think people kept thinking that that was over, too. that's still accelerated it's a remarkable thing. people just turned out to like to shop that way now, if amazon were to stand up and be counted, amazon is kind of lurking, what are they doing? what are they doing? we keep waiting. i think we'll come in one day and discover that amazon, the whether or no whole time, had a master plan. right now, walmart as it, and it's good. >> amazon versus the other tech giants we've seen, it's been a pain if you favored the amazon side. >> i think amazon is a very

thoughtful company that is trying to figure out how to make a bold move and not hurt customers. i think they're customer centric. you want your product and want it on time, and they're not going to do anything that makes that not happen. do they have too many people in the warehouse? they're trying to figure it out. they have a warehouse of the future where they're using nvidia, like everyone else right now, you could wake up and see something big there. i don't know i talk to them, but there is nothing that they're telling me. that's the one that hasn't spoken yet. >> as far as the banks go, "the journal" has a piece of yellen's testimony today that she'll argue that maybe bank rules did get too loose regarding some of the mid-sized banks. pretty interest data on wall street bonuses, down 28, jim, on average. >> look, when you see no ipos, you're not allowed to have mergers because of the way the ftc and justice departments are,

you have to figure out, where are they making money? some trading it's not a healthy economy that's the group where you're getting detraction because on the limited amount of business, people are paying less they're worried next quarter will be worse. there's just -- look, when you have the fdic hurting and you have to pay for your own funeral, it's just -- no you're not sitting on a gold mine >> right, yeah speaking of gold, we'll keep our eye on that. ahead of the inflation numbers we'll get tomorrow, jim, still a lot of expectation even though we have some downside surprises and european inflation today, spain, for example, people are on edge about tomorrow's -- >> i know that i'm a broken record, but that is the winner in the european chaos. butine has put together an amazing franchise.

the country has low inflation. it's a stable country. you're not getting a credit suisse problem or deutsche problem. she's getting credit i don't understand it. it is the bank to be in in europe i do not understand where the respect is -- it is non-existent. >> interesting the credit spreads for european banks have come way in, right? >> this is good in madrid. i don't get it sometimes i think that butine is not a promotional individual the banks don't get attention in europe, only the ones that cause problems, not the ones that deliver. >> jim mentioned earlier the prospect of tiktok and its potential impact, if it were to be reigned in, on meta interesting counter narrative established by senator rand paul. >> i know. >> talked about this yesterday take a listen. >> i think we should beware of those who pedal fear we should beware of those who

use fear to coax mamericans to relinquish our liberties and first amendment rights every acquisition of data gathering that has been attributed to tiktok could be contributed to domestic big tech companies. we should not let fear of communism cause us to ignore our first amendment protections of speech this legislation violates not only the first amendment of those who own tiktok, many of whom are actually americans, not chinese, but it also violates the first amendment right of the millions of young americans who use this social media app. >> well, i remember my father during the period when there was an attack on a senator from michigan he said, don't forget, there's only 100 of them respect them what i will say, he is 1 of 100. >> yesterday, morgan stanley took a crack at who benefits in the event of a tiktok ban. meta, obviously, is number one they tried to quantify it, jim

they zeroed in on a dollar a share, maybe $10 to the stock. >> what i saw, can i just say, like, the first amendment rights to have your brain be frazzled by tiktok, that's -- i don't think when you go over that, madison, no. jefferson, definitely clearly not in that camp maybe adams. can't be true. >> strict constructioners? >> the guys who wrote the constitution didn't have tiktok in mind, not because they didn't have it, they were against being stupid that's not the draw the line issue i expected at this point in american history. i think it is so great meta was going to make it. it was so great. it's the first setback that mark zuckerberg had. >> yes. >> look, other than bank executives, he has been the most reviled. he had a shot here i don't know he's spending a lot of time. >> yeah. the last thing, jim, airlines. boeing investor day, which we'll

watch. >> tharm charm offensive is ter. >> jetblue saying staffing is a challenge. they'll cut routes from new york. >> is this revenge against the justice department you don't want us to merge this is what we're going to do i didn't get that one at all to go back to boeing, there's tremendous demand for planes they are getting it together i'd say we have to look at ge. we keep thinking, larry cope, we watch that stock go up it's been a horse. >> yeah. >> larry, you know, someone the other day, i was listening to someone say, well, they're worried about their energy business it's not that great. that's a peer play the order book is great. the service business is great. don't forget ge is the way to be involved really good. >> remarkable. dow up 150 nasdaq still holding 12k this morning. let's get to bob pisani. >> another strong open, all week

we've had this two things stand out number one, things are a lot calmer overall than they were two weeks ago. number two, we're getting some modest breakouts this open today, 7 to 1, advancing to declining stocks. this happened almost every day this week. look atd the sectors something more interesting happening. banks are calming down we talked about that all day yesterday. semis are continuing to be a leadership group they have been for a while but we're getting some modest breakouts, modest moves up, in cyclicals, like metals and mining, materials, industrials, for example. they've all been trading up this week they had an overall terrible month going into this week probably the worst month in 25 to 30 years for some of the office reets it's not a breakout but the move off the low has been happening over multiple days we're seeing an expansion of the advanced decline line.

that's one of the things powering this rally. technicians love when you get more stocks advancing than declining and not just big cap moving the market forward. the banks here, they're up, but some of these banks, and this is the usual suspects, comerica, keycorp, fifty-th third, they'ri the upper range. they're down from where they were week ago, but they're trading to the upper end of where they have been in the last few weeks. that may not be a breakout, but it is certainly a positive overall move the markets are calming down this week. it's really been remarkable to see how much quieter things are. look at the biggest gainer this week, the russell 2000 guess what 25% financials that's a lot of small bank stock. that tells you something the bank volumes which were titanic, record numbers, five, six, seven, eight times normal volumes we saw in some of the bank stocks, they're back to normal this week treasury yields which had collapsed are inching higher

this week. as i mentioned before, the market breadth is advancing, the single most important thing. want to look at how things are calming down we talk about the vicks all the time in march, 19 it went to 30. look at this, back down to 19. if you want to call that a head and shoulders, fine, bhwhatever you want to call it. it's quite a move, up and down again. here's what is also important here we had this nice move off the bottom recently, and there is a goldilocks case the bulls want to make. i'm not convinced but they have an interesting point the market is acting like there will be a modest recession, then suddenly inflation will come down a bit and interest rates are going to come down they point out, if you notice, bob, corporate earnings stopped going down indeed, they have stopped going down in fact, they modestly have risen in the last few weeks. let's call it for the year flattish but not collapsing. that's an interesting change in the trend over a few weeks ago

this week, a lot of the bears have been quiet on the earnings front because, actually, the earnings numbers have come in pretty well. in fact, surprisingly well mi micron, excellent numbers. lululemon, great numbers mccormick, great numbers pvh. one disappointment, rh, and it is relatively small. early reporters have done remarkably well. people are saying, maybe it's not terrible on the front. where are we closing out the month? s&p up 2% for the month. hard to believe but we are we are near where we were in early february carl, up 5% for the month. if you would have told me this two weeks ago, i would have been in the, you've got to be kidding me camp. here we are. so the bulls have a little bit ascendency in the rhetoric right now, and for good reason. >> yeah. even michael bury, bob, who said to sell in january, just tweeted, i was wrong to say sell >> wow. >> you don't get that often. >> wow

>> bob, thanks, bob pisani. as we go to break, look at the bond report. key numbers today. mostly backward looking on the q4 gdp reports tomorrow, of course, we'll get pce deflator actually, this afternoon, we'll get fed balance sheet. one of the key looks at any kind of stress in the banking system. don't go away. you got this. let's go. gobble gobble. i've seen bigger legs on a turkey! rude. who are you? i'm an investor in a fund that helps advance innovative sports tech like this smart fitness mirror. i'm also mr. leg day...1989! anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations. i go through a lot of pants.

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keep track of michael's tweets given his legendary status from "the big short." he tweeted "sell," a few moments ago, six more word, i was wrong to say sell with the dow up 130 and holding 4050, stock trades with jim is coming up next (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right?

(fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

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considered response that answers a lot of questions i had about it and i think that this is a very fine company and its par partners were not shaken by the hindenburg piece i've seen them be right and i've seen them be wrong and always felt they disclose, not going to be able to say they're a hidden short but i think that this is a very good piece, which makes me feel like the identity verification system they have works and i think it's going to squeeze the stock higher >> almost filled the gap would you argue, what are your favorite fintech names >> cash app is really good the piece did say, look, without a doubt they're overinflating and did a lot of stuff about criminals, but the people, the main company, i remember when jack dorsey told me, if you've done enough work, do you know who -- visa is our partner and

we have partnerships and they're standing by. that's important >> what's on "mad" tonight >> we have tim who went to law school with me and we need to understand exactly who is the stop law and who is making -- creating coins every day then toby rice, the largest natural gas guy making money, natural gas? and the guy is still making money. he's a magician. the david blaine of fintech. he's unbelievable. david blaine. >> see you at 6:00. >> thank you. >> coming up at the top of the hour, closer look at meta's monster run this year. more than doubling from its 52-week low in nemr.ovbe we're back in two. whatever you see, at pgim we can help you rise to the challenges of today, when active investing and disciplined risk management are needed most.

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because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. good thursday morning and welcome to another hour of "squawk on the street. david faber has the morning off live for us at post 9 of the new york stock exchange. stocks up again so seeing follow through to yesterday's rally the s&p 500 up 0.75%

another broad one. real estate, consumer discretionary is a leader. the nasdaq in the lead, that's been the story of the year and the month up 1%. 30 minutes into the trading session, here are three big movers macy's in the green after announcing their ceo who led the turnaround effort will retire next year. shares are still more than 35% off their 52-week highs. roku heading higher on news it plans to cut 6% of its staff this morning that's around 200 jobs, focused on cutting costs shares up almost 60% since january. they got crushed last year and then finally restoration hardware shares falling this morning. quarterly decline in profits and sales amid cracks in the armor of the consumer. ceo gary friedman always telling it straight on the analyst's call talking about how things could slow further take a listen. >> inflation that we thought to be transitory is now being

persistent by the federal reserve. resulting in a record rise in interest rates triggering dramatic decline of the housing market with luxury home sales down 45% in the most recent quarter versus a year ago. add to that an underperforming stock market and banking crisis no one saw coming and the data points to business in our sector likely getting worse before it gets better. >> it's like gary watches "squawk on the street" every morning. i knew he would mention powell and yellen he gave props to powell. if he pulling it off he should be president of the united states usually he's more critical. >> jim was looking for more commentary about the business. >> the brand >> the brand, what you have to sell but, no, expensive and, you know, we keep calling it -- have you heard the term rich session, right, bank bonuses, the high end getting squeezed that's going to affect your rate. >> totally and not doing promotions because they want to

maintain that elevation in the band so that is hurting them the bottom line is that for the market, the s&p broke out of its trading range. nasdaq is now technically in a bull market, right, 20% off the lows the vix, the volatility are at 19 the financials have been strong for another day. the message is, the market is a lot calmer about this banking crisis and some will argue there's more skeletons in the closet it's never, you know, quite so smooth when the fed is raising interest rates so much so sharply but it does look like for now the market is pretty calm, which brings the onus back on the economic data we weren't talking about that very much and guess what, the awkward thing it's kind of strong jobless claims below 200,000 again. yes, they jumped from 191 to 198 in the last week but suggests a really strong labor market why that's challenging is strong data flying in the face of a bond market that is now expecting recession and the fed

to cut interest rates. there will be a lag for the whole credit crunch that we're going to experience from the banks and so there's this tension between what we're getting on the economic data now and what that is going to mean ultimately for the fed worried about the banking crisis. >> i saw one estimate for next friday's jobs number up 200k a continued softening, but we will see i mean to your point, the degree this broadens out beyond the megacap tech but the composite on the nasdaq as well above 12k today. i know you're curious as to why we're up this morning. let's turn to mike santoli here at post 9. why? >> we keep feeding off the relief that we are not seeing more banking instability you did get sentiment reset a lot more fearful after all that. we've passed a few technical test, that 3800 was hit the ponseca after svb and have not breached it since then the large cap nasdaq stocks

obviously have been a big part of the story what i find amusing about the conversation around that is, at the end of january, the complaint about the rally was it's all the junkiest stocks, most leveraged, lowest quality, that's not how you have a bull market now what do we have? the most profitable companies in the history of the planet leading the market and that's a problem. now, i get that you want a broader value and don't want it to just be a handful of perceived stocks going up all the time, yes, the nasdaq 100 has opened up a lead year to date versus even the equal weighted nasdaq 100. that's a narrow set of a narrow set bus it's the other story, right it's kind of a catch-up move and say that the large cap growth stocks have detached themselves to a large degree from every wiggle in the bond market, right? from the end of january you have the nasdaq 100 up like 7% and bond yields are flat to up a little bit depending on the maturity you look at

it's a different story than just that mechanical move so all that is in play look, home builders are up 10% this year. we know that's a little bit of rate relief. industrials and consumer cyclicals didn't give back all their january gains so bundle that all together with things not as bad as feared as sara said, the economy not giving way as quickly as the very high conviction recession callers would have it. >> why i use the word awkward. maybe softening in hiring but still expected to paint a strong picture then an inflation report on april 12th. all ahead of the next fed meeting and you aren't going to have this fed taking strong data because of the lagged impact and the banking crisis with a market that is increasingly pricing in cuts so it is tricky. >> yeah, again, first of all, the pce tomorrow that's another inflation number you have could be a hurdle to this narrative. that's emerging right here i guess the way i would say it, the bond market is expressing

heightened concern that there's a recession waiting for it it's not expressing a convincing forecast that recession comes within a few months. they are projecting -- >> they're going to take swift action to cut rate. >> in which case that's happened a couple of times too where the market rallied up to this point, this higher end of the range when it becomes, oh, maybe in fact we have to reset the expectation and more hawkish direction for the fed. i don't think we're there yet. i think almost any conclusion is the fed's closer to being done than we thought they would be a couple of months ago, the question is what's the cost of that we don't know yet but we also don't know it's going to be a disastrous -- >> the push back is volume is light. hedge funds are fading this move managing quarter end and that we've had three days in a row sub1% moves. haven't done that in a couple of months. >> that is true and i do think there's no doubt there's some levitation at the end of the quarter -- on the other hand, the last three quarters ended

really weak. it's not like you could just walk up to the end of the quarter and say, well, now the buyers will show up. it has happened this time because of the position we were in and because of the big structured rebalancing trades, everybody knows about them and self-fulfilling prophecies even if it's not about that. >> mike, thank you mike santoli well, we'll continue on the theme of the nasdaq strength this year and this month meta, one of the big winners, its year of efficiency appears to be paying off shares up 70% this year with more than half of that since the company's latest earnings call back in february our next guest has buy ratings and new notes. joining us is truist analyst and mark mahaney with a brand-new note out today are you doubling down? >> yes, we are doubling down, i guess. look, this is not just a year of efficiency, i think it's a year of product cycles at meta and i think that's what is

underappreciated it's done the right thing taking out costs but three product cycles, first the improved ad targeting. second is closing on the monetization gap but third, click to message opportunity it's almost 10% of the company's revenue and i think most investors don't know about this in large part because a lot of this comes from outside the u.s. due to message apps they own one is whatsapp. so we think it's something that can kind of bring this company back to solid double-digit revenue growth and the last quick pitch on meta, it's still the cheapest internet stock on a p./e. basis, the cheapest of the large-cap tech stocks on ebitda basis, whatever you want to look at recovering revenue growth story with cost discipline and want to be long meta. >> your target is 305. do you see it as the cheapest too? >> it is one of the cheapest in our universe as well i would totally agree with mark. i would just add a couple of

thing, one, so the latest thing they've had should add $2 billion to $3 billion of incremental cost savings that starts in the second half into next year. in terms of engagement, what's impressive, we continue seeing them add users and engagement and has something to do with -- if you look at the last four quarters they've been gaining share from tiktok in terms of engagement every single quarter. and that speaks to the potential for revenue growth over time >> hey, mark, i what is the latest with the metaverse? i mean we've seen him rein in head count and seen him rein in capex. does that mean commitment to longer term is lessened? >> i hope so investors hope so. but i want to make sure we get the right nuance i think meta says the stock is worth more, these five to

ten-year bets. and i think there's a right amount of investment into the metaverse for meta it's probably somewhere in the single digit billions range. not 15 billion a year so i think that's what the market wants to see that they're willing to kind of trim sales a little bit and cut back the investments i'm not sure we'll hear that i think it's a distinct possibility and if we hear that that's another leg up in the stock. so i think it's a good long-term bet. we're seeing a few signs they may be willing to trim sales and would love to see more evidence of that and that would make us more bullish. >> where is the line between sort of capital discipline and not getting over your skis on moonshots but also sort of stabilizing long-term growth opportunities, i mean, how many disneys can there be where a company shuts down or lays off within their metaverse division before we start to question whether this is going to work at all. >> well, i feel a couple of years ago we were on the other side of this argument where the

company was growing very fast, spending a ton of money and there was some issues around that but the stock kept working and all of a sudden obviously on top line growth stalled you're supposed to like dramatically cut your costs even ahead of the stalling they didn't do that an very few names did but going forward you can count on one thing, one, with all these cost savings, that focuses on the bottom line, we think they'll do 10 per share. two, i think they are still aggressively investing but instead of having the metaverse as the number one priority, ai is now the number one priority because that's obviously what everybody wants to be spending money on but they continue to spend on the metaverse and even leveraging ai to double down on the metaverse. i would agree i think it's a single billion dollar spend as

opposed to 10 or 20 billion and i think this is a great story. >> got it. it's okay to spend on a. but not the metaverse. mark, the environment has changed and you know your stocks have been very tied to macro and yields so if the view here is that we're heading into a recession, the federal reserve is going to do something about it. you want to look for quality, good balance sheet stocks, that's what the market has been telling you lately have you changed your views on your coverage universe given the changing winds of the economy, what's happened with the banking crisis >> well, we tried to do that at the beginning of the year when we went tactically constructive on the group estimates had been derisked, multiples had been and we had cost actions being taken this is new to the internet, reductions in force layoffs but when the revenue growth continues you get the slingshot opportunities so be more

constructive in the group and buy some of the companies innovative as they were several years ago at a third lower multiple so interesting buy opportunities in here, what i call dhqs, that said you estimate want to be trying to lean towards companies with a lot of valuation support, meta clicks that list but also names that can hold up the demand in a weakening, softening demand environment a macro environment. one reason why i like netflix. it's inexpensive and getting cheap, cheap entertainment be careful about consumer discretionary names, get the ones that are cheap. meta is in there and netflix i think is in there. >> all right, we'll leave it there, guy, thank you very much for joining us youssef and mark. our road map for the rest of the hour, disney dodging ron desantis' governing board. more on the growing tensions out of florida after the break plus, more on what to do here with the nasdaq as it pops 20% off the lows. finally a group of tech

titans from elon musk to apple co-founder steve wozniak penning a fresh warning for ai researchers. the rising risk later this hour. we still got a big show. losing momentum. dow still higher by 67 point, s&p as well. we'll be right back.

some pictures of sam bankman-fried arriving in

manhattan federal court today for his arraignment on this new superseding indictment we learned about yesterday. this is one that accuses him of paying a $40 million bribe to chinese officials to unfreeze some of his hedge fund accounts. he is expected to plead not guilty if we get any more headlines on this, of course, we'll bring them to you but quite a scene there outside of court today meantime, disney a clash with ron desantis heating up this morning let's get to julia boorstin with more on the latest on a story that's a little bit opaque and difficult to understand, julia, regarding it. >> here's how i would break it down, carl it looks like disney has scored a surprise win in this ongoing battle between the company and florida governor ron desantis. the new oversight board that was installed by the governor over their special tax district accused the previous disney controlled board of transferring much of the board's power to disney back in february including veto powers over improvements or changes in the

theme park this is all just discovered by the new board just recently. disney saying in a statement, quote, all agreements signed between disney and the district were appropriate and discussed and approved in open notice public forums in compliance with florida's government in the sunshine law but desantis' office says we are pleased the new board retained financial and legal firms to conduct audits and investigate disney's past behavior so disney's offsight board has been around since the state created a special tax district for the theme park back in 1967 and it's been responsible for the likes of approving infrastructure projects as well as trash collection and perhaps most importantly the approval of major construction projects. this oversight board and the special tax district came under attack by desantis when disney opposed florida's so-called don't say gay law so this has been an ongoing battle kind of in the weeds but it's

interesting to see how disney, which is obviously such an important sort of force and business presence in the state is taking on desantis. >> but bottom line, julia, they kind of -- sounds like sneakily overcame it. >> sounds like it worked i mean i have to point out that the comment from desantis' office says that they are going to be taking all legal actions to try to address this but if everything happened as it appears to, then it looks like back in february, disney's then board signed over all the rights back to disney's -- disney the sort of corporate governance of the company itself this oversight board now controlled by desantis would not have any power over the company. looks like it worked some legal hurdles ahead but based on everything we know now it looks like it worked. >> plus, some of the flourishes here regarding the language and the way this is valid until the descend doesn'ts of king charles

pass away. did that make sense? >> look, that was a weird flourish one of these legal thing, i am not a lawyer but seemed like that is one of the systems that was put in place and kind of the language that was put in place to indicate that this is to continue as disney put it for quite a long time but, yeah, weird legal flourishes the fact that this has been such a funny very unique tax district for some time where you have disney responsible for the trash collection rather than the state of florida, i mean, it makes sense and it certainly has benefited disney but it's fascinating to see it under attack now especially if disney continues to invest in building and improving the theme parks in the state, you would think that florida would understand yes, it's not like disney can pull out of florida but they are certainly a meaningful contributor to revenues in the state. >> and the thing is, carl, it's so complicated for people to understand that ron desantis, if he runs for president, can still paint himself as a culture

warrior here. >> i think that's probably pretty assured julia, thank you for shedding light on obviously a huge story for disney. still ahead a look at one industry feeling the paiam the broader banking volatility and what lawsuits have to do with that when we return ah, these bills are crazy. she

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one sector feeling the pain amid the banking volatility, no, not real estate. we talked about that but insurers with names like aig and metlife. contessa brewer joins us with more we haven't talked about this one. >> yeah, well, you know, because nobody really likes to talk about insurance. people tend to think, oh -- i do love to talk about insurance here's what we're seeing, the exposure falls into two buckets. the portfolio, especially those of life insurers and they have seen their stock price plummet this month coal bridge financial down 22% it spun off from aig but aig is still the majority owner, aig down 20%, metlife and prudential down about the same, brighthouse down 25% and the worst hit

lincoln national down 31%. lincoln national held $89 million worth of silicon valley bank's unsecured debt and really only totaled about a percent of lincoln's total surplus at the end of last year, according to s&p global, insurers' total investment in svb, signature and the other banks moody's downgraded is less than $5 billion so let's put that in perspective. the industry holes trillions in assets and cash. the other bucket, the other way insurers could get pinched is through directors and officers insurance or d and o what it's called shareholders filed a suit claiming mismanagement by dire directors and officers if there were a jury award it's the insurers who would pay among the biggest providers of this type of insurance, chubb, berkshire hathaway, aig and

travelers, svb bought its $181 million policy through chubb according to an industry trade publication, the insurer my sources tell me this is a long tale problem and will play out over years, not the next week or month. and it's a risk these insurers will be able to manage however, banks and other financial institutions because of this will find that their premiums go way up because and not only that the scrutiny that insurers have on management for these institutions will increase as well. >> you know what caught my eye, the page 1 of the "miami herald." property insurers are looking for rate hikes, they call it a hurricane tax because of the losses they've taken on property. >> the kind of head winds that the insurers are facing this year have really more to do with macro economic worries and for sure across multiple states the regulators have not allowed the insurers to hike rates

commensurate with the risk so in florida what we saw were the big insurers have flooded. they can't get the kind of premiums they need to justify the risk and what we saw with hurricane ian last year is that it was one of the worst years on record for p and c, guys and reinsurers that hiked rates to try to make up for it but the climate change, the fraud, the litigation and, of course, the fact that there are macro economic concerns, inflation, namely, coming into play here. creating headwinds for pnc. >> banking risks, is it easy to see the exposure of the various insurance companys >> for instance, when looking at lincoln national and its $89 million bonds in svb, that was at the end of 2022 if they had divested themselves of those assets in the tim since then, we don't know about it and even, you know, when we're looking at the d and o exposure

they don't have to publicly file any kind of paperwork to tell us who provides the d and o and so it's not easy to get clarity into which insurers might be holding the bags, unless it becomes material that they will announce it in earnings. >> a lot to keep track of. >> insurers are very exciting. i'm glad for the opportunity to talk about it. >> let's get a news update with bertha coombs. >> here's what's happening at this hour. u.s. officials tell nbc news they are in touch with "the wall street journal" after one of its reporters was arrested in russia the russian fsb said they have detained evan gershkovich but didn't provide any further details and ordered gershkovich's initial detention until may 29th if convicted he could face up to 20 years in prison

"the journal" says in a statement it denies the allegations and calls for his immediate release. nine service members were killed after two army black hawk helicopters crashed overnight in kentucky the crash occurred during a training exercise near fort campbell and the army said identifications are not being released until next of kin are notified and the vatican says pope francis is progressively improving after he spent the night in a rome hospital after he was diagnosed with a respiratory infection. the 86-year-old pontiff was taken to the hospitalyesterday after complaining of breathing difficulties the vatican added that the pope had rested well overnight and is getting back to work certainly a lot of prayers out there for his recovery sara >> absolutely, bertha, thank you. top gainers on the nasdaq 100 this morning, we've got more on the markets with ubs' art

cashin after the break and some chinese internet names leading the charge and semiconductors are strong, in fact, the smh semiconductor index is hitting its highest level since april 2022 we'll be right back. and customers all on different systems. you need to pull it together. so you call in ibm and red hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform. now data is available anywhere, securely. and your digital transformation is helping find new ways to unlock energy around the world.

over an hour into trading, bob pisani >> every single day we're up early, preopen every day this week we're up and the breadth is changing and the market is changing a little bit here just take a look at the sectors here, yes, of course, tech leads and banks are still up today although not as strong as they used to be i like looking at things like reits coming well off the bottom, four days in a row now, materials and industrials, cyclical sectors, also bad month coming off the bottom in the last several days. a little bit of rotation going on and, boy, do the bulls love

that, one reason the market has been advancing so calming down, other than the reits improving calming down notably different than two weeks ago, the russell 2000, a big gainer bank volumes, they were ten times normal two weeks ago back to normal this week all those big names you know and u.s. bancorp, et cetera, treasury yields advancing a little and most importantly as i mentioned market breadth generally advancing and look at the sector leaders of this week. you want -- used to be used all the time technology, metals and mining? yeah, there's a cyclical sector, banks, yes, there's another cyclical sector, reitss horrible year, horrible month, all of a sudden coming off the bottom, not a breakout but notable change in momentum tech is lagging here which has been the market leader the market is rotating a little bit this week. i'm not trying to make too much of it but it is noticeable

so trying to advance the case of a goldilocks scenario where we get a modest recession that will bring down inflation and interest rates and keep recording corporate earnings and i'm amazed at the earnings micron, did you see lulu, mireya cor -- mccormick. they raise the estimates for all of these guys this week. so i'm trying to explain this to people who are saying, what the heck, bob. the numbers are better than expected and earnings numbers are not going down and all i can say is the biggest thing is the market has come to believe that there are either the top of the market for the fed or rate cuts are coming and they're not willing to droop their earnings estimates. s&p 500 estimates have not only been stable they've been going up in the last couple of weeks and i think it's very important to try to figure out why that's happening right now.

that's the best explanation that i can give you >> i don't know. >> they're anticipating earnings cuts down the road that will help stocks and analysts don't want to cut numbers for the second half of the year. >> q1 should be good but don't you think guidance will be uncertain given the outlook -- >> i keep waiting for it and didn't see it in the companies that reported. i agree with you. >> they had good reactions in their stock price, not all of them had the roseiest of forecast. >> i would say cautious in general, but i'm still waiting, i agree with your point. it should be cutting what people are anticipating because the lending levels are going to be lower and, yet, i think the analysts don't want to do anything i think the most important thing is whether rate cuts are coming, that's the biggest determine apartment for the stock market overall because obviously it changes the overall equity risk premium that's involved and that's the key thing here and the analysts don't want to do anything right now till they see clearer evidence that actually the rates are going to go up, even though powell said yesterday to the republicans,

oh, you know, by the way, you know this, we'll raise rate, okay, you know this, yesterday they all looked at him like -- >> i'm not sure i trust any of the reporting that came out of that so-called meeting but we'll find out >> let me explain. >> bob, thanks for more art cashin joins us on the cnbc news line i guess we can start there i wonder if you believe this sort of corporate dynamism bob talks about is something the market can count on going into earnings season. >> well, i'm a little skeptical about the upcoming earnings myself, but we'll wait and see, bob's right. some that came in, but agreeing with everybody this morning i agree with sara also that they were not triumphs. so this is a bit of a sigh of relief rally you were on vacation, carl, but

last friday, this market in the morning looked like it was about to crack wide open i thought we were either going to go into freefall or start a process of multiweek selling and when they circle the wagons, it's resulted in a terrific week this week. we're pulling back up, but i think it is a little bit of a sigh of relief we'll see if they get some minor resistance here and the s&p at 40, 50, 55 and then some more serious stuff up around 40, 80 to 90 then ultimately the old or most recent major high at 41.50 so i'm still skeptical here. i think this may roll over next week it's hard to say that because we're going into the month of april which is one of the s seasonally strongest months of the year. >> yes >> so things are a little bit

alice in wonderland here. >> i was going to ask about seasonality. only disease is a better month at least for the dow. >> that's absolutely correct although, i think, last year we had a couple of minor stumbles, and i think we may have a couple of surprises here, particularly as we start to move into earnings season in earnest to make a pun >> so, art, one of the reasons i love talking to you, you've seen so many cycles and so many crises before, and while not every crisis is the same, history does rhyme and i just wonder what your feeling is here about these banks. do you think this thing has been making sense or worried about more dominos to fall >> well, i think that we're getting away with murder with this implied guarantee that run on the bank, these

people have to learn we're in this new electronic age and everybody has a small computer in their pocket called a phone and to see how much money hemorrhaged out of that bank in literally a matter of hours, i don't care what kind of stress test you do, there is no stress test to accommodate for that and they will be talking about this and planning for months, if not years, so i think this was different. this was very much like the panic of 1907. i wasn't quite around for that, but that was a classic run on the bank, and you had situations where they showed a picture in the newspaper of a line outside of a bank, and it was at a savings bank in harlem, and it said a. harlem savings bank. they immediately caused a run on the harlem savings bank, so i

think we were on the verge of that i think you're getting a sigh of relief because it does seem to have been limited, but i think that the real answer is to take a time-out, you give pretty much a guarantee for now, but a warning that you're going to take it off in six months, so get your deposits in order, get them guaranteed, move them around to a money fund so it doesn't come suddenly in a couple of hours. they had several large depositors who all knew each other and, you know, it was harry, i'm taking all my money out and you better do the same thing too. >> yes, frictionless exodus. art, finally, the bull arguments we mentioned seasonality and people talk about positioning being light. the other one i've heard if the fed is really going to do a reversal on qt, that that's not just going to stop for awhile

and almost forces you to chase stocks are you a buyer of that? >> i think that powell would like nothing better than to be recalled as the new volker i think he wants to show he's tough on this thing now. now, whether the banking system accommodates him, i don't know they got forced into a qe after doing qt they had to rush and put money back into the banks. paying on excess reserves. i'm not so sure i believe that that's going to be a reason to support the market i think we have a 20% to 25% chance of testing the lows and have it down a week or two in april. that's sticking my neck out. >> mike wilson is already ther so you're in good company, at

least. art, thanks. we'll talk soon. art cashin. >> my pleasure, thank you. bearish art. big tech scaling back their ai ethics teams, as a group of industry titans including elon musk have a new warning for owowarchers. sl dn. we're going to discuss with one of the authors behind that letter next. stay with us - psst! susan! with paycom, employees do their own payroll. - what's paycom? a magic payroll genie? - it's a payroll app. - payroll is way too complicated for the average person. - paycom guides them through it. missing or duplicate punches, pending expenses,

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you are looking at pictures of sam bankman-fried arriving at federal court in manhattan earlier this hour. quite a scene as we're now absorbing the news of that superseding indictment that accuses him of paying a $40 million bribe to chinese officials so they would unfreeze his hedge fund accounts. we'll monitor that and bring you any headlines. it's been a few weeks since he's been in the news and know the trial itself isn't until this fall but no lack of attention for his arrival in court today. >> you can barely see him because it was such a ruckus

with the reporters and pled not guilty. in the meantime, back to ai. tech experts have signed an open letter calling on labs to pause giant ai experiments for at least six months highlighting the warning signs and risks it poses to society and humanity. this as some big tech companies like meta, google, amazon are cutting ai ethical staff our next guest author of "rebooting ai" and jumped on board signing the letter gary marcus. he's also founded geometric intelligence a machine learning start-up that uber acquired. great to have you, why are you joining the team that is putting out a warning and calling for a pause? >> we need a wake-up call here we have a perfect storm of corporate responsibility, widespread adoption, a lack of regulation, and a huge number of unknowns >> lack of regulation, do you think we'll get regulation

they've been warning about social media and digital media for years and we really have very little to show for it on that front >> i think things have moved really slow. i think they're moving a little faster in europe than they are here but part of the reason that some of us wrote this letter is to put some pressure on to make governments and the companies realize that this is no joke that there are risks from these things, there are immediate short-term risks around misinformation and wide scale it might disrupt democracy in a much more plausible way than we've seen before and risks around cybersecurity, people using these tools to acquire people's credentials and do all kinds of things once they have them there are longer-term risks we don't understand what these machines can do and we don't know how to make them align with human desire so there are many, many issues to worry about and we've never seen anything scaled out so fast before and we're also seeing that the corporates are as usual more interested in

profits than human safety and have to do something that's why a bunch signed this letter i don't know if the particular thing we called for will actually happen, but we've raised public awareness more than i've ever seen on this issue. i've been on television nonstop for the last couple of days talking about it and i think it's just absolutely critical that people in society realize we can't wait on this. we need regulation that's akin, for example, to medicine where you have to make a safety case you can't just give a new drug to 100 million people without having made that safety case. >> i wonder, gary, what six months buys you. is that enough time for policy to get crafted or is it an attempt to convince the markets to slow down the capital flow, we can tell you on a business network, is unrelenting. >> yeah, i don't expect the capital flow to slow down, but we didn't actually call for a ban on all research. we called for a ban on these particular thing, scaling up these particular models that themselves are unreliable if you ever used to them to write your own biography, you know they

will lie about you and provide deliberate -- they can be used to make deliberate misinformation even accidentally and make a lot of misinformation we have all those problems so saying, fine, research all of those thing, just don't make a bigger version of this we already know is problematic and risky. openai acknowledged there's alwaysrisky. ai hasn't given any solution we're also completely opaque about how the as much willing work >> okay. so, putting aside the pause, which i'm not so sure is realistic, how do you make ai safe >> i think we need a pause i think we need regulation with medicine where you have to make a safety case. we may needto have a pause on widespread deployment even if research carries on until we figure out what are the safety measures we probably are going to need new technologies in order, for

example, to pick up on the high volume misinformation i anticipate just like we had to build new technologies for detecting spam and different kinds of viruses and stuff like that, we have to build new tech, too. six months buys us some time to do that. i don't know we'll actually implement the pause but we must do something here. >> has there been official response from openai or google or microsoft or any giant player who's in this? have they tried to say to you, guys, we're on it? >> i haven't heard any specific response to the letter i have heard people like sam altman himself say we need regulation microsoft said that. i was in an episode of "60 minutes" and brad smith was in it, too. >> i remember that piece. >> he was the president of microsoft. he said at the end of that piece that people are authoritative, i don't know if you can beep it out so i'll say bs, we need to

regulate these things. i haven't seen any specific proposal from openai or microsoft about what that regulation would look like but they are acknowledging this as reality. in an abstract, yeah, we need this, as opposed to specific proposals, here's what we're going to do. i think the call for pause would disappear if we had clear regulation and people knew what they were doing. >> you know how slow regulators are. the counterargument is, we need to speed up because china is doing it, they're not taking a pause to put in place regulations. don't we need to get ahead of that >> i've heard that my own view, and i'm not aligned with everybody that wrote the letter, they have nothing to do with our intelligence. they can't actually reason they don't understand truth. they'll never be reliable. we could actually use this time to develop other kinds of ai it's only pausing one technology

we know is risky and we know is not reliable and hasn't gotten better i wrote an article in december called "what to expect when you're expecting gpt4" and i made seven predictions about them continuing to be unreliable and not understand the physical world, psychological world, and every prediction i made was there. and another prediction is someone would die death by chatbot and that happened this week all the things i predicted have come true. you know, nobody's doing anything about it. >> thanks for raising the concern. it is a debate, obviously, over the safety here. gary, thank you very much. gary marcus, nyu professor. get a check of markets pretty stable. holding on the s&p green, even financials stay with us

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welcome back to "squawk on the street." i'm dominic chu. retail sectors is on the downside, because of google, apple, microsoft, amazon and nvidia showing solid gains on the day. keep an eye on mega cap tech one of the bigger upside movers, philip morris on the heels of an upgrade by jpmorgan. they like the heat but not turn tobacco. up 2.5%. one of the biggest laggards, schwab downgraded by morgan stanley to a neutral rating. some uerin inctatyn deposits a factor there keep an eye on charles schwab shares keep it right here we have more "squawk on the street" coming up after this break.

good thursday morning. i'm sara eisen with carl quintanilla. setting today's agenda jeff solomon, his warning on the remaining risk in the banking system. the call everyone is talking about the street needham's laura martin on why it makes sense for apple to buy disney. later an exclusive interview with