good afternoon, everyone welcome to "power lunch. alongside kelly evans i'm tyler mathisen the nasdaq falling again on pace for a fifth drop in six sessions we're going to take a closer look at two of the biggest tech names, apple and tesla tesla down nearly 9% already in april after a hot start to the year. >> indeed. plus the markets are waiting for the cpi report tomorrow morning. if it shows cooling inflation could the fed press pause? we'll look and game out all the scenarios. let's get a check on the markets. the dow at new session highs pretty much after interesting comments from austin goolsbee in the past hour, showing a little more openness or he's been typically considered somewhat more dovish kind of reiterated his concern about the banking system the s&p up 0.3%. the nasdaq down by 10. >> let's check in with kristina partsinevelos in studio for a look at some of the movers welcome. >> thank you, tyler. unfortunately the nasdaq is on a roll for five days in the red

out of the six, the dow the only consistent indices up about 1% you have worries about inflation, which the cpi report out tomorrow and the bank earnings on friday the banks are taking a bearish tone on the economy. wells fargo calling for a 10% correction in the s&p 500 over the next three to five months. citi worried about tightening credit crunch, post-silicon valley bank fallout. heavy weight microsoft shares down 2% after ubs trimmed its estimates for microsoft cloud service azure. they say migration to the product has been slow, so that's part of the reason why they downgraded the stock carmax surging higher after earnings doubled estimates, 44 cents versus the 24 cent estimate, the biggest beat since late 2009. unfortunately, it's not necessarily because of demand, but because of cost cuts shares up 10% and the year of

efficiency continues snowflake selling off. a downgrade from midwest boutique but a recent company or company insiders, including the co-founder, selling stock and it was only revealed in the -- yesterday insider selling sometimes seen as a bearish signal and that's why contributing to the sell-off, down 5%. >> thank you very much kristina partsinevelos focusing in now on the tech trade, the nasdaq the center of out performance up 15% but something seems to have changed in the past week as the index, as christina pointed out, pacing for the fifth negative day in six. components like tesla up more than 50%, despite having to cut prices, down more than 10% so far in april while mega caps like apple up more than 20% this year, but slumping recently. so has the positive sentiment on growth and tech this year peaked, for now at least, let's bring in senior analyst tony

sagnagi. i will start with the general question, is tech and growth, are they taking a breather 12 >> good afternoon tyler. i think they are we've had a spectacular run up year to date when we look at technology valuations they're trading at a 40% premium to the market. the historical premium for tech is about a 25% premium to the market, and yet tech earnings this year supposed to grow more slowly and revenue more slow than the broader market. you have elevated valuations and expectations for weaker relative growth for tech. i think as we get in earnings, investors are processing that and pausing and saying, look, does it continue to make sense in an environment where the macro is questionable and where we have elevated valuations, and

some questions ate the relative growth. >> that's the broad sort of 50,000 foot view let's bear down on a couple of stocks that you follow that are very popular in a lot of people's portfolios and probably own them if they own mutual funds and certainly own them if they own index funds start with apple and your thoughts there. >> sure. so apple is an incredible company and has a, you know, a dominant consumer franchise. as an investor articulately said, they have a monopoly on the most important thing or nearly the most important thing in most people's lives and that's a pretty powerful franchise. that said, if we look at apple's valuation, it's trading at about 28 times this year's earnings. the market is a little bit around 20%, so we're looking at a 40% premium, which is about the highest premium that apple has ever traded at this year, consensus expects

revenues and earnings to go down apple had a spectacular last few years. i think this year and next year will be digestion years. you have the same dynamic that's happening in the overall market, which is, you have apple at nearly its peak relative valuation of all time, and yet, you're going to have more muted growth this year i think investors are trying to assess that tradeoff. >> so tony, this is such an interesting point because one of the reasons why people were in tech was this idea that you want to be with the growers in a lower growth environment and that kind of thing is it possible that tech is going to take the year off and then go back into revenue growth leadership or earnings growth leadership because this year they're kind of catching up to the downside like they led on the upside post pandemic if people stick with the stocks will they be over the next 24 to 36 months, even if not in the near term? >> right i think it's a great question and you're right for this year, tech earnings and revenue growth are supposed to be below the market.

for next year they're supposed to be above the market what's interesting to me is when we look out five years, we look at tech earnings growth over the next five years, it's about a 2% premium to the market. historically, five-year growth rate is at a 4% premium to the market so again, when we look out near term, in the next year, and longer term over the next five years, earnings and revenue expectations for tech are more muted, yet we have these elevated valuations. that is something that does concern me as we look beyond just the near term trade on technology. >> sure. apple is kind of a unique case because of the hardware component and pandemic demand. let's broaden it out, though i don't know if you want to speak to amazon, but across mega cap tech, do you think that they all are going to follow the same kind of parngs patterns or not here >> that's a big question for the market going forward

what we seen historically is that technology market leaders change every decade or two decades. when we look at the ten largest technology stocks by market cap, at the peak of the bubble, 1999, 2000, only one of them is in the top ten today and that's microsoft. all the others are no longer great stocks seven of the ten largest stocks at the peak of the tech bubble, they've never gotten back to their peak valuations more than 20 years ago, which reflects sort of how dynamic tech is. so that's the real question, is when we look at the growth rates, expected growth rates for amazon, microsoft, google, facebook, apple going forward, they're dramatically lower over the next two years than the last three or four years. that begs the question of whether they will be able to sort of cyclicly improve or readjust their business models to have sustained growth that has been difficult for large cap tech to sustain leadership over 10, 20, 30-year

periods. >> we don't want to let you go without getting a quick thought on tesla all i eye as i drive around new jersey are teslas. i mean, they are everywhere. but if you look under the hood or in the case of tesla, the front, it doesn't have a hood per se, you seem concerned about some of the numbers, specifically about market share declines in the u.s. and maybe more notably in china? >> correct yeah look, tesla is a great company and had i think a first mover advantage in the electric vehicle market, and so they've grown tremendously to their credit and they're still growing tremendously their goal is to grow at 50% last year they grew a little under 40 the first quarter their deliveries up 36%. they're starting to grow more slowly because we are seeing more competition and we are seeing market share losses as more evs enter the market. this year we expect 180 new

electric vehicles to debut globally in terms of new offerings and that tightens the competition and tesla doesn't really have anything new this year we're seeing pressure on the growth rate and the company responding by lowering prices. >> always great to hear from you. thank you for your time and sharing with us today. we appreciate it. >> thank you let's take a look now at united health as everyone looks forward to earnings season with the banks. even bigger company reports on friday, and a big day for united health which is the largest market cap companies in the united states. $483 billion it's bigger than jpm and citi combined and had the largest impact on the dow which is a price weighted index health care as a group has more weight in the s&p than the financials joining us to preview the stock, john ransom, managing director of health care research at raymond james. good to see you. first of all, you know, health care is not exactly a cyclical

type of trade so we don't look to united health care as a bellwether or a tell for the rest of the space or do we what's at stake here >> the difference between the volatility and earnings and volatility in stock prices is remarkable united health care never misses. you can dial in 13 to 16% eps growth for the next three years and they won't miss that, very unlikely, but what is volatility volatile is the price that people pay for it. what we found is we think investors overreact to regulatory fears and when they drive the multiple down, that's the time to buy it we upgraded it last week because there was some perceived regulatory fears in medicare advantage that got a lot better and that was a clear given and one less thing for people to worry about. >> sure. i can't help but think when i listen to the certainty about it, that this friday they're going to miss or something,

right? how long can trends and streaks like this continue, or is that what happens if you're effectively a government utility to some extent >> well, we did this analysis a couple years ago and calculated that 90% of the growth in united is 4% from capital deployments, m&a or share buybacks or a combination, and the other part comes from medicare advantage. if united health gets in trouble it's because they miss in medicare advantage for some reason or the government moves absent those two facts that's 90% of the story they're just coming off a year where they spent $21 billion in m&a, that's going to be probably for 24 and beyond, and like i said, we did have some concerns about medicare advantage rule making, but the rules got better than what was feared when the stock was dropping. >> i don't think many people know that united health is the third largest dow component.

i don't think many people understand it price in the 500s in that price weighted index, gives it incredible influence on what the dow does in any given day. i would like to hear you comment about that, number one, and number two, answer a kind of sophomore economics question or finance question, is this a stock that might split >> you know, i don't think professional investors spend a ton of time thinking ate the dow because it is price weighted and not a lot of money index to it they spend more time thinking about the s&p than the dow i'll leave that to people who focus on the dow in terms of a price split, i think that's actually a good idea because, you know, at the margin you could get more retail interest if the stock was, you know, ten times lower than it is today. it is -- as weird as it is, it

is hard to think in terms of $30 in earnings. people would rather think of a $100 stock price and numbers one fourth or one-fifth that that's a good thought. we've not heard anything about that from the company, but it wouldn't surprise us. >> made me feel so good there, john i had a good thought makes me happy. >> you did. >> thank you, john appreciate it. john ransom. >> thank you. >> coming up -- keep that streak going with good thoughts speaking of the health space, shares of ww, the former weight watchers, soaring today, all on hopes that weight loss drugs will usher in a new rear for the company. shares of moderna falling after the company updates the markets on vaccines. health and money, two of the big topicshe o"perun." aadn ow lch , all the time? not like that. like this. getting this beer... all over the world... right when they need it. yes, with ibm consulting, ai-powered software can help automate

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a huge shift in the health and weight loss space. the growing popularity of drugs like ozempic could up end the diet industry. pushing companies to hunt for deals to stay relevant ww known better as weightwatchers, soaring nearly 50% after completing its acquisition of a telehealth company and goldman sachs upgrading the stock to buy and putting a price target that's more than twice the current price. the fda taking notice of the sudden popularity of the weight loss drugs, and meg tirrell sat down with the fda commissioner very interesting. >> it was very interesting

we talked about a lot of things. i visited their headquarters in maryland dr. robert califf is a cardiologist by training and so i did ask him about this moment we're seeing with the medicines from novo nordisk and eli lilly. here's what he had to say. >> this is one of a growing number of classes of drugs that are dealing with the axis between our gut and our brain, and i think a lot of things we thought were willpower before, we're coming to understand our bellies are signaling our brain and vice versa through endocrine pathways i have great hope, but we have a saying at fda, in god we trust, all others must bring data. >> and there is already a lot of data around these medicines that helped them get on the market but one of the trials that commission are is particularly looking forward to seeing is one that's going to read out this summer novo nordisk wegovy, they're looking to see if helping lose that weight can translate into

protecting people against heart attacks and strokes and that will be an incredibly important study for the societal question of who should be getting these medicines and will we start to pay for them in a bigger way, reimbursed for them in the united states. >> asking for a friend here, can i go to my -- can someone go to their doctor and say i want wegovy or i want mounjaro? >> you could, of course. >> for weight loss for weight loss, it is approved for specific folks wegovy particularly for people certain bmis and health conditions and the others for type 2 diabetes mounjaro only for type 2 diabeteses >> you can be prescribeded off label? >> exactly i asked dr. califf, he said the fda's job is not to get in between a doctor and patient off label is something allowed if the doctor thinks it's appropriate. where he did warn is the cases we heard about people ordering them online from unauthorized sellers compounded versions and fraud use is something people

should be careful about. you don't know about the safety. >> where does that leave us then one of the things we often talk about is, how are we going to know about long-term side effects for things it's my understanding people have to take pretty much forever? what is the exit point we can't run lifelong studies on this and then let people start it's going to be an experiment playing out in real-time. >> that is something we talked about as well and folks can see the interview at cnbc.com. you know, he was saying we should have the data system set up to really track this well using electronic health records. we don't have that system in the united states like they do in the uk and in israel he is confident we will see any signals that might pop up and the safety could turn out to be better than we expect. he took issue with the idea you might have to take these forever. perhaps with more study and behavioral interventions where the ww idea comes in, maybe people won't have to take the drugs forever. >> turn to moderna obviously, that stock lower.

one of the worst in the s&p. not huge it had a setback for the flu vaccine, at the same time trying to offer vaccines for a variety of treatments, cancer, heart disease, other conditions. so how much of a headwind and what is the novelty and reason why this flu vaccine didn't work here >> flu is one of the areas moderna is trying to go next with the mrna technology there's been skepticism they will be better than the current seasonal flu vaccines and they have another data setback at vaccine day where they said the phase 3 trial in the northern hemisphere didn't have enough cases accrued to have an early efficacy readout to say this looks better than current flu vaccines they did look at the immune response generated by the response and that was pretty good it showed superiority compared to an existing flu vaccines against influenza a, the most common form of flu and noninferiority against b, better than in a study in the southern hemisphere the fact that there is a delay is another thing stacking up

against analysts who already are skeptical about how big the market is going to be. >> yeah. >> meg, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. further ahead on the program, the nfl unveiling pricing for the sudnday ticket n youtube. speaking of prices, bitcoin crossing $30,000 what's leading the climb higr.he we'll be back with that and more on "power lunch.

welcome back to "power lunch. bond yields slightly higher today as we await the cpi. rick santelli joins us from chicago with the details. >> yes short maturities leading the way as we go in front of cpi and cpi over the next two sessions, could two data points be any important? i don't think so two-year hovering at the highest yields since april began the third of april, the first trading day, 10-year note yields hovering he highest yields since the 4th of april open the chart up for 2s, see that high watermark, high yield close, is a bit over 5%, 507, the 8th of march what's notable here, only two

manureties took out their fall high yield closes. 2-year and 3-year neither that chart. you can see it there for two days, it's knocking against minus 160 which would be a historic inversion as you see a 40-year chart. when it comes to cpi tomorrow, everybody seems to be talking about year over year core. and letting us know that it may not be a linear type situation except for it is a linear situation. the high watermark was 6.6% in september of last year okay that was the highest level since 1982 september, 6.6, october 6.3. november was 6.0, december 5.7, january 5.6, and our last read in february was 5.5.

lower every month. see what it looks like tomorrow. >> before we let you go, what did you think of austin goolsbee's comments last hour? peter says we may have a dissenter on our hands >> well, i guess better late than never what i thought. pretty much i'm looking at the side of the horse as it runs away from the barn when it comes to what our central bank has done. >> thank you very much joining us from chicago. oil is trading, it says oil trading closing for the day. i can't read that sentence what happened with oil >> it is a tongue twister but it is in the green again today ahead of tomorrow's key inflation report we got the short-term energy outlook from the eia and they see wti averaging 7924, 2 below where we are and the forecast could be revised lower based on fallout from the banking issues. nat gas, it did just turn lower,

although that follows that big -- now higher again, volatility always, you know, when the markets are closing, never know what's going to happen higher today after the 9% boost yesterday and the strength is lifting. energy stocks, that sector, two names to point out, the first is new foretress energy, an lng play, up 5% today and up more than 10% over the last two sessions that follows a bullish note from deutsche bank which initiated coverage with a buy rating and range resources is on the move following an upgrade to overweight over at wells fargo now one other quick thing to note, yesterday we talked about exxon and pxd. today more merger news in the broader commodity conquest that is, yes, glen -- >> the gold deal or copper. >> that was the punch line glen sweetened its deal for tech resources, newmont for newcrest, known for gold, and tech known

for gold as kelly beat me to it, both have a lot of very valuable copper assets and copper is the key to electrification. >> are people making too much of that exposure? i mean, put it this way, why do both companies say we're gold but we have copper exposure? it feels like the bull market right now currently is gold, maybe copper for the next ten years but i don't think this could have gotten done if gold wasn't doing as well as it is right now. >> the main driver still gold, but the excitement factor is the copper and when trying to pitch this and trying to say we're a future, we're a forward looking company, mining, is that really forward looking? that's not the first thing you think of emphasizing the copper element saying electrification, you need us, that gets people excited. >> yeah. haven't seen this much excitement in commodities and m&a talk in some time. thanks. >> let's goat bertha coombs for a cnbc news update. >> hey, tyler. here's what's happening. apple is set to launch its first retail stores in india next

week the tech giant announcing today its apple bkc store will open in mumbai and a second brick and mortar location will open two days later in the capital of deli ly. walmart decided to close four stores in chicago the retailer opened its first location in the windy city says the decision did not come lightly but that stores have never been profitable since opening, losing tens of millions a year with annual losses nearly doubling in the past five years. and youtube tv unveiling today the price for its nfl sunday ticket package if you're already a youtube tv subscriber you can buy the package for $349, for nonsubscribers, it will cost you $449 youtube tv became the newest home to sunday ticket in december paying roughly $2 billion for those rights and at about 450, that's about $26 a game for the 17 game

season i guess that's okay. >> i think it's still a loss leader maybe, but they probably think it's worth it. thanks ahead on "power lunch," the irs on the hunt. its plan for spending $80 billion in new funding mpie a own on the wealthy, large coans,ndn tax evaders. the details when we come back. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated.

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well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. welcome back to "power lunch. a little less than 90 minutes left in the trading day and the dow is pretty much at session highs up 183 the s&p is up 13 points to 4123 and the nasdaq is down again, the fifth down session of the past six, only 3 point decline bob, we'll see if they can turn things around for the close. >> yeah. we're getting a bit of a breakout want to show you the s&p 4124, the old closing high, knocking on the door the reason we're doing so well, a broad rally, seeing cyclical stocks break out and defensive stocks tech is down but not much. there we've talked about the

cyclical stocks that were a mess, caterpillar, dover, mosaic, classic deep co cyclicas housing related stocks in the last few days are starting to peak out not new highs, but in an uptrend, horton, lennar ro, whirlpool, mohawk doing better we're seeing defensive stocks like health care and consumer staple stocks, also contribute mccormick, general mills, kimberly clark and procter & gamble up more than 10% in the last few weeks combine defensive stocks combined with cyclical names you've got a rally and at the same time remember, tyler, tech down today, but not that much, so you get a gentle move up in the s&p 500. back to you. >> thank you very much investors are gearing up for a critical cpi report out tomorrow morning inflation expected to drop to

5.2% year over year in march and 6% in february so if inflation eases, might the fed take a pause or is another quarter point rate hike ahead? phil orlando chief strategist. phil, welcome. good to have you with us i see that nominal number from 5.2% to 6%, but as rick santelli pointed out the core inflation number an expectation it may rise from 5.5 to 5.6 who knows what it does why would there be a disconnect between what overall inflation and the core which strips out energy and food, such a disconnect >> well, tyler, first of all, thank you very much for having me back on, but i think you anticipated the question the composition of nominal and core cpi are different you don't have the volatility of the food and energy prices involved in the nominal number the federal reserve i think is

looking at all of these metrics and the thing that really resonates with us is that powell and this fed have really been dug in on trying to get the inflation genie back in the bottle go back and look at what the federal reserve has done over the last eight rate hiking cyclicals, over the last half century, every instance, they took the fed funds rate to a level above the nominal cpi year on year number the upper end of the fed funds at 5%, as you pointed out the nominal cpi at 6%, so you look at those two numbers and you say okay, may 3rd is coming, the market has priced in a 70% chance of another quarter point rate hike by the fed that makes perfect sense, but suppose tomorrow's number falls, you know, falls off a cliff. suppose that number drops down to 5% or below 5%, then the fed has a little bit of a conundrum.

i think the may 3rd meeting they're probably going to hike again based upon the dynamic we just laid out, but maybe that's the last rate hike. >> maybe they're done then, particularly in light of some of the reading i've been doing about the way banks are pairing back on loans, that they're not making the kinds -- and that's tricky because that leads potentially to not just a blip of a recession but something deeper, more profound. >> well, if you look at where the street is in terms of economic growth right now, their quarterly gdp forecast, the consensus has negative gdp in the second and third quarters. our forecast here at federated we have negative gdp in the third and fourth quarters. we think the quarter in a couple weeks will be the high water mark for the year.

how bad or not bad will the tighter lending standards and banking crisis emanate to over the course of the year in terms of revenues and earnings to some degree we will be looking towards this first quarter earnings season which is going to start this friday and not just the numbers but probably the guidance. what are company management seeing in terms of how are they tightening their lending standards, what are their loan loss provisions going to look like there's a lot of open questions right now that we'll have better answers to over the course of the next couple weeks but may not have a perfect answer right now, right today. >> yeah. that said we have i think it was goldman gaming out scenarios for the cpi report if it prints over 6% the market falls 2%, under 4.6, we rally 2% we kind of know the contours here, but what would you say to people about positioning and the influence this print will likely

have what would be a happy print and a not so happy one >> yeah. i don't disagree with directionally goldman's assessment in terms of the read through, and what is the fed going to do from a policy standpoint from a positioning standpoint in the markets, i think you've got to go into tomorrow's number, you know, looking to play defense. bob pisani talked about that a moment ago we're playing defense here because of the uncertainty associated with all of these different moving parts so you've got, you know, more stable demand categories, health care, energy, staples, utilities that are cheap, they've got very good dividend yields and they're likely to continue to do well, regardless of how good or how bad this metric tomorrow comes out and what the fed does and how good or bad earnings season is so our point of view is let's play defense here a little bit until we've got some clarity on

what a couple of these moving parts are. >> sure. and i imagine that's going to be more than inflation. jobless claims in particular over the next month or two, things like that thanks so much for your time today. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me back. >> you got it. still to come, the irs gearing up for a major crackdown on the wealthy and on corporate america. we have the details next and as we head to break, take a look at carmax on pace for its best day since november. a 10% pop after the earnings report overcoming a host of challenges like falling used car prices, consumer confidence, inflation and higher interest rates. we're back after this.

welcome back 80 million in new funding what the irs is getting how is the money going to be used they rob banks because that's where the money is sounds like that's what's happening? >> if you're a high-end taxpayer you had an audit holiday they have plunged 90%. the irs has 7,000 enforcement agents they're going higher over the next two years, that's a lot of enforcement agents and very well trained, especially in the sophisticated tax strategies

that the wealthy are using and the irs in laying out this plan specifically pointed to partnerships and pass-through as the area and it's incredible and said the number of pass-through increased by a third, now 4 million pass-through entities in the u.s. look at those over 5 million, used by the wealthy, increased 75%. so it's almost become a shadow tax system where people are using shells and interlocking webs of pass-through and llcs, i wouldn't say to hide income but minimize their taxes >> makes it harder to follow. >> harder to follow. >> harder to follow. >> is there a possibility that these 7200 agents will not be hired? >> they're going to try and the question is, number one, can they be hired? will they have the right skills? will they collect the amount that's expected? the cbo estimates about $180 billion in added revenue over the next ten years if you think about the tax gap

right now, the amount of unpaid tax, around 4 to $600 billion a year they're only - >> taxes that should be collected that aren't. >> they're only hoping to get an average of $18 billion of that with this new group. so on the one hand it's a low bar. on the other hand there are big questions over whether they can do that, whether they can find the people who are avoiding taxes and collect it by the way, not impact those who make less than $400,000 a year. >> right what's the statute of limitations broadly speaking for everyone listening going okay, you know, is this all about proactively going forward or are we talking about clawing back some of the stuff for how many years? >> they can go back. typically they can go back two to three years if you've had three years ago, did something a little pushing the edge, unless they audit you this year, you're probably safe, but they can go back further if they think they have a criminal or serious case. >> and what about for corporate america? because we mentioned we focused on wealthy individuals but what is the aspect of this for

companies that people should be on the alert about >> the three areas are wealthy individuals, high income people, and companies. they're going to hire a set of account thes actually corporate accounting is very similar to high net worth individual accounting who behave like institutions. companies, although the revenue amounts aren't as great and the lack of compliance not as great with companies that's going to be a big focus and start using technology, data, artificial intelligence, to look at which companies, let's say, among their peers sort of stand out for their agreegressive tax treatment and go after those. >> long overdo move. >> somebody has to collect the money. up next, a whirlwind for whirlpool getting an upgrade to buy from goldman we will trade that name and others in today's three stock lunch. so you got an awesome net. (seth) and when i switched, i got to choose the phone i wanted.

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welcome back, everybody. it's time for three stock lunch. on today's menu we have disney getting a buy rating of their guggenheim reiterating on the company saying questions still remain, they adjusted the price target to 130 from 140 disney shares down frakly. caterpillar has been all over

the place. a laggard last week but leading the dow yesterday and today. whirlpool getting a buy rating from goldman sachs, making it one of the best stocks in the s&p, now is a good entry point for more to trade these three, let's bring in victoria green with g-squared private wealth. what would you do with the shares here? >> i think one thing is you need to be prepared to ignore the noise on the stock i'm a buyer of disney at these levels i think they're about to break out and bumping against the 200 day, leapfrogging in front of it because their content is strong, disney plus has grown to 165 million subscribers and only started since 2019 and if you look at what they have coming out this year and the theatrical release, indiana jones, guardians of galaxy and realize the stock is trading about 25 to 30% below average price target on the street and look to be a buyer off the lows. >> let's go to caterpillar, what do you think there

>> i don't think enough bad news is priced in yet i don't think this is a terrible stock. i think it's at risk if they miss again on eps it was forgiving for a q4 miss but if you look at it, they could be ripe for a slowdown. they're economically sensitive oil and gas operations have slowed down marginally, off about 30 rigs if you look at the baker hughes oil and gas recount, 751 versus 784. a slow down in contraction and slowdown, the stock is not priced for that you could see it trading back close to the october lows at the 160s this isn't necessarily a cheap stock and i see it at risk for any type of miss, type of bad guidance is going to continue to knock this off and keep the downtrend intact. >> whirl ppool which is popping? >> i a agree this is a stock you need to get behind coming off their 52-week lows, trading 8 times forward estimated p/e and if you look at what they're doing, doing

cost-cutting, taking out $500 million, streamlining, focusing on higher quality brands and really focused on getting out the discounting, getting the supply chain worked through and i see the stock is on the rise and see it as a cheap way to get some footholds into the consumer discretionary that may not be as discretionary. if you think about it when your washer and dryer goes out or fridge, you don't have a lot of options other than to replace it there is a necessity to some products that we'll see them be able to weather any contraction. >> what market are we in, caterpillar may struggle but whirlpool can do okay? >> it's all about how they're priced price what you pay, value is what you get look, you have to think about how they're priced and i think caterpillar is the little bit expensive and whirlpool coming off under performance and could get a pick-up because the bad news is priced in. look at caterpillar, i don't think the bad news is priced in. they didn't beat on eps in q4

but the market is willing to forgive it because of backlog and what's looks like this year. with the imf downgrading global growth from 2.8 to 2.35%, i think caterpillar is more at risk and sensitive and not priced in for bad news, where whirlpool is cheap. >> real quick final question do you go with the crowd on the thesis that big banks will do great, small ones struggle or approach the financials at all differently as earnings season is about to get under way here >> i think you have to approach it like you would a hand grenade. they're all dangerous right now. deal making dried up in q1 to the big banks are going to see revenues from that drying up even if they have deposit flows. net interest income may not be as strong. hopefully trading picked up, the difference between the deal making and investment banking. i don't think anybody is immune to the pressures the banks are under and the fact that they need to pay more on deposits because they're seeing the deposits go to money markets and treasuries, i think that maybe will pressure big banks better

than small banks but not sure they're immune to some of the stresses. >> true. it's a great point we appreciate your thoughts today. thanks for your time. >> thanks, guys. up next, crypto on the move. 30k for bitcoin. a big either upgrade on the books and we'll talk about the stocks exposed as well "power lunch" after this no big deal? go on... well, what if you partner with ibm and red hat, use a hybrid cloud solution to connect data across multiple systems globally, then analyze all that data with watson. okay, but this needs to meet our... security standards? yup. compliance standards? mm-hmm. so they get the insights they need... yup. in real time... check. . ..to make quick decisions? check. aaaand check. that's the hybrid cloud solution ibm and a global bank created. what will you create? ibm. let's create.

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82% and topping $30,000 for the first time since last june obviously, outperforming almost all other asset classes but by the way it's not just bitcoin, ether has been on a run. tomorrow they apparently have this upgrade that's going on to the ether chain chappell la they're calling it and say some of the changes made to ether even last year reduce energy usage substantially and it's lifting stocks like coinbase by the way which are also rallying and having a pretty good session up 6%. thigh my micro strategy and outperforming gold, although many lumping them together. >> if you go back to the chart that showed the year to date on bitcoin if we could do that, there is a jump in early march where the svb and signature bank issues, see it, boom, that's where -- i mean it was higher from january into early march, but that last sort of jump is, i think, related to people who are

afraid of fiat currency. >> the irony with bitcoin it was originally getting your crypto off the exchanges and then in early march your dollars out of the banking system that became the main worry. >> here it is up another thousand dollars. >> the fed stuff when talking about rate cuts and all the rest of it. >> we mentioned earlier this is an important day for football fans football never goes away it's never out of season google announcing the prices for nfl sunday ticket, $449 for the season youtube tv subscribers get $100 off that amount if you subscribe to that product. you can save another $100 by getting in early, google paying roughly $2 billion a year for rights to sunday ticket. it will need somewhere around 5 million subscribers to break even on that product there was a time web sunday ticket was novel

i think red zone has taken away a good bit of that. >> $40 more get them both. >> red zone is a great product i'm not sure i want to pay that much to watch the bears and cardinals. >> still a washington commanders - >> i'm a giants fan. >> thanks for watching "power lunch." >> "closing bell" starts right now. >> kelly, thank so much. i'm scott wapner live from post nine this is the make or break hour where all roads end. tomorrow's critical cpi report the latest read on inflation, top technicians gaming out the reaction in markets. you will hear from one in just a little bit lays out where stocks might go, no matter what the print is in the morning. here's your scored card with 60 minutes to go in regulation. nice session work in here towards the close. cyclical stocks like energy and industrials leading us higher as treasury secretary janet yellen suggests the economy might