that would be fantastic. >> uber. they have had a couple of good quarters >> i think it's been long enough since i talked about short-term treasuries talking about them again >> all right joe? >> the exchange, strong emergency volumes. a lot of momentum. be a buyer >> good stuff. see you on "closing bell." "the exchange" is now. >> hi, everybody welcome to "the exchange." i'm kelly evans on this wednesday. here is what's ahead what banking crisis? one of the banks investors were worried about posting deposit growth last quarter, being added to the best ideal list of one firm it's helps the regional banks go positive morgan stanley has all but erased its losses. we have all the details. tesla cutting prices for the sixth time this year ahead of

its report tonight our market guest owns the stock and is looking to add to her position she's here to explain. and nvidia is the market darling. analysts are scrambling to keep up today, a price target hike we have the analyst behind that and says the stock could be headed to 340. and before all that, dom chu has the latest on the markets. >> it looks a lot like yesterday at this same time, because we're seeing some losses but not very dramatic if you look at the dow industrials right now, down 80 points, just about flat for the s&p 500. it's almost the exact same amount, now 4150 so still holding above 4100. to give you an idea of the narrow trading range that we have seen so far today, at the highs of the decision, we were pretty much flat so tilting towards the higher end of that range, the nasdaq composite outperforming, just very marginally composite, up

12,157 one place we are seeing more market declines and notable levels being breached is in crude oil. west tech intermediate is now below the market, $79.40, down about 1.75%. it is still down about 35% from the highs that we saw in june. we got a tick above here, and now below that $80 mark. so watch those crude oil prices and energy stocks are seeing some price actions to the downside today and kelly talked about it in the open the regional banks that a lot of folks are focused on, one of the most embattled names out there, that's western alliance, which has been holding steady, up about 20% on the day i'm showing you the one-year chart to give you some context

it's still way off where it was before the banking crisis happened still, a 20% gain. the earnings report was mixed. what they did tell us, and to kelly's point, we knew that the deposits shrunk by 11% from the end of last year to the end of the first quarter. what they told us yesterday was in the first two weeks of the second quarter, this month that we're in, they saw $2 billion of deposit inflow could that mean the bottoming process is in effect for three regional banks, kelly, that's a key point. western alliance a big focus >> 20% pop today dom, thanks. not only stabilizing but growing those deposits for more, let's bring back chris. we talked yesterday about bank of america's deposits were a little underwhelming what do you make of this >> it's good news and it's a better scene for deposits than stocks were suggesting

throughout march and here in early april. so it's a very good day. i think there's more where that's coming from, as banks report tonight and tomorrow. banks of all shapes and sizes have better deposit flows than the stock suggested the past several weeks. so it's good news that happened. i think it's part of the healing process for the stocks and you're starting to see some of the recovery western alliance is having a good day so far. >> why was western alliance -- the share price told you that's where the market was very concerned. there have been a lot of rumors flying around about it, equity, this, that how do we get from there to here >> i think the big venture capital and private equity firms had an acute issue once the flee was back on march 9th and silicone valley, everyone was panicking about first republic, signature bank, western alliance so we have the outcomes of svb

and first republic quickly but the other three lived to tell where they finished the month of march western alliance goes first, and i think it's healthy to get this information out, just to show where the facts are, where not only deposits are, but capital earnings the fact that this company is profitable and many other banks are too, is helpful to getting investors to refocus on the banks. >> is this something maybe of short covering a relief rally? the shares are still down 35% this year, and by more than 50% from their highs what is it going to take to go from a sigh of relief -- where is the valuation here? >> so i think earnings are getting reset. we think the company western alliance is de-risking itself, so that will make it for a better earnings going forward, particularly from a credit side. i think the credit risk will get less as time passes.

investors have to get comfortable with capital levels. i still think there's capital that has to get raised for these companies over the next six to nine months, primarily just to show that they can very analogous to what we had with the tarp repayments in 2009 wh and i don't think there are many bank failures out there. i do think there are companies that have to raise capital to test the waters and show that they can getting earnings out and getting the new deposit flows that come out with this information and all these se.e.c. filings is ver healthy. >> so just a final question, it's below $41 a share, but is that discount warranted, because the book, is it what we thought? there are still some questions going forward about the ability of people to service existing loans and things like that

what do you think makes sense for a name like this and maybe across the state >> getting back to a premium of tangible book value is step one. so for first republic, west alliance, getting back to book value is the first place to do understanding what capital levels will be as they de-risk the balance sheet is mportant. western alliance is telling us that capital can be stable and expand as the company grows earnings most banks are retaining earnings at a good clip this year the retained earnings, what's left over after buybacks and dividends, is quite healthy. so that's the mystery that investors ignored in march but are now focusing on. >> yeah, fascinating to watch. maybe one of the most significant data points, as well about 73% of deposits are now insured. perhaps they worked with clients to spread that across different accounts that's up from less than half at the end of last year

chris, thanks for rejoining us good to see you again. >> thank you very much all right. so the early gains have given way to a little more tepid reaction to earnings my next guest is looking to trim exposure joining me now is nancy taylor, and we're joined by barry, managing partner at iron sides he is taking no comfort from what the banks have reported so far. welcome to both of you nancy, let me start with you and put this in context for us earnings wise. this is a tricky day, because this morning when morgan stanley was down 5%, it was an easier narrative than it is yesterday afternoon. >> i think this market has been much stronger than it has a right to be, but yet earnings were not nearly as bad as many expected i know you have brian reynolds on a lot he's done the tax work, so he

expected okay, not great i thought sarah's interview with the ceo of pnc, that was really instructive. that company did deliver better than expected across the board so that's one of the names we own, and we'll probably be adding to it we stayed away from the banks. >> on friday, jpmorgan was way better than expected but pnc, a little concerned over that loan loss provision and today, western alliance comes out, i mean, this is a very different story i'm sure it makes by extension a name like pnc which seemed to be in a better position benefit from that. >> absolutely. you're starting to see the management like goldman do what the technology companies have done they're focusing, they're honing their business models and employment that's good. that's good for the stocks >> well said barry, i don't know if you have dug into morgan stanley.

it would be unfair to put that on you why is it up to this point you are not so impressed by what we have seen in some of the bank results? >> i think the big banks were beneficiaries of some regulatory policy back in '21, in particular when the fed ended the exemption for cash and treasuries from the supplementary ratio, meaning the big banks couldn't take in deposits when the fed was injecting $3 trillion of liquidity of bank reserves into the system as a consequence, they didn't wind up that problem of what do we do with the cash in 2021, didn't buy as many treasuries and mortgage backed securities as some of these smaller bank where is the money did flow. so now that credit is tightening, the money is coming in but my issue is with the banks the last interview you gave was indicative of that, because he

said -- analysts said they're de-risking so that means they're shrinking their balance sheets this is knock-on effects of credit tightening likely to permeate through small business generally, and construction more specifically, right? your interview with my old colleague steve king yesterday was instructive where steve said 70% of the home building market is small, mom and pop type operations they're not going to get any capital. so this is going to take three to six months to manifest itself through the economy, but i think it will show up in continuing of slower and softening labor income and have a macro economic fallout. there is an obvious solution to it, which is the fed ceases and desists with the rate hikes. you know, they don't seem to be giving much inclination other

than austan goolsbee >> some of the names you're selling on strength, energy, materials, that kind of thing, adding chipotle and tesla. tesla reports today. give us some color howyou want to be positioned here. >> well, you know that we have been adding risk back in since october -- >> this is the right call? >> it was difficult, but it was the right call, at least for now. and we have been trimming a number of those names, microsoft, salesforce. but when you are going into an economic slowdown or a recession, pick one. you want to own companies that have the ability to deliver reliable earnings for us i like the secular tail wind with companies like chipotle that are embracing the digital revolution, a million dollars per sale per store, digital. and the companies that are providing the digital arments.

>> nvidia is not on the list sit just a valuation -- >> yes we had 20 minutes to buy it, and we missed it but we were able to pick off some tesla >> and quick note on that one. they just cut prices again, i think this is like a fun, provocative one you were buying before the rally took off. why not trim that position now >> if i had bought enough, this is the conundrum, you buy but not enough we have a clean energy strategy that is focused on the metals and miners and companies that are delivering clean energy. >> barry, again, around where you want to be right now, i can't imagine it would be cyclicals. what about emergency some team think maybe that could be a pinch point what do you think? >> no, i do like cyclicals

the difficult thing is yeah, we're going into a slowdown here the defensive sectors are ridiculously rich. utilities and staples, relative to their own history, almost never been this expensive. of course, we know mega cap tech is expensive so i do think there's a secular trend that's going to cause industrials to -- i'm calling them the new tech. so i do like industrials still i like energy, the market is undersupplied. so it's tough because it's not a great entry point for the market overall. but the stuff that really reflects a slowdown already aren't in cyclicals. so stay away from financials right now, but industrials, metals, energy, they look attractive >> and nancy, it almost makes you think all this is mislabeled tech are the new industrials, so you want want to be there.

but it's logical but not the -- maybe it is the usual playbook, but i don't think it is. >> this has been the most complex investing environment in my career. you have to pay attention. barry is right, industrials are embracing technology, a lot of digit digitization we're overweight in that sector, as well. it is about stocks and management teams you want them -- the great ones that can navigate in economic slowdown we saw it last year. 20% plus growth. stock sold off after every earnings report. but it's a great time to pick it off. >> we'll leave it there. really appreciate it nancy and barry. the dow is down 62 right now rick santelli has more now >> let's go through the metrics,

kelly. i gave it a c minus, so below average. we're talking about $12 billion 20-year bonds, a reopening to an issue we created a couple of months ago the yield, 3.92. it tailed a little bit, meaning the yield was a little bit higher than the one issued, higher yield, lower price, so a little taken off for that. but all the metrics were roughly average. as you look at an intraday of 20-year bonds, you can see we went down, we went up, but when you open the chart up towards december, you can see how many touches we have had in the mid 360s, similar to a 30-year bond. a lot of touches in the mid 350s the long end says rates are going to go up, a bit of a temporary run. maybe up another 25 basis points in the 20 and 30-year. so the markets are prepared. equities are looking a little

iffy and with this auction behind us, maybe the most important metric will be tomorrow's continuing claims kelly, back to you >> i totally agree rick, thank you very much. coming up, netflix pushing back its password sharing crackdown. what does it tell us and nvidia has almost doubled since january 1. and as we head to break, here is a broad look at the markets. the dow is negative, but the np is now positive. the nasdaq up ten points the brussels fighting back and forth between positive and negative "the exchange" is back after this

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welcome back to "the exchange." netflix down a little less than 4% after trading off double digits after posting some mixed results. they added 1.75 million subdescribers last quarter, but they pushed back their password sharing program, and they said goodbye to what gave them their start, the dvd by mail business. let's talk what's next with

jason and mark welcome to both of you mark, some top level thoughts here i know you love netflix. i don't know, they're a little underwhelming this quarter >> by the way, i personally bought the stock and money showed up in my bank account i continue to like netflix i think the big news out of their earnings announcement is really about the fact that the new act supported here is monetizing better than the lowest plan. what is a little lost in netflix is a $30 billion a year business the ad business is expected to be out the gate 10% of that. $2 to $3 billion in revenuein the first year so that's the growth part of the business it's very different than what they are doing with cracking down on password sharing and i'm bullish on it. >> fair enough, jason, i look at

the password sharing and go, yeah, this is something that potentially cuts off a lot of viewership, because people will have to transition and decide if they want to pay so if they delay that, this doesn't project confidence what do you think? >> yeah, i agree the password sharing thing to me, i just call it the noise you have the street that is addicted to sort of viewing netflix, and this password sharing injects a tremendous amount of noise into the net ads. i just ignore that the signal is really the ads here i totally agree. on our map, they will have about 55 million net adds, and that is going to shine through with the back half of this into '24 and '25. >> higher average revenue per user on the cheaper, but ad

supported platform that's why people are excited about this, mark somewhat would you be watching from here on out >> well, again, we're -- jason and i are in agreement password sharing is just a form of price increase. and everyone -- what people want to buy in netflix is growth. growth comes from innovation and the innovation is coming from the introduction in the ad business the challenge they're going to face is that eventually they will be competing with disney and nbc and discovery, and all these companies for those ad dollars. it's also going to make up the business the revenue, a lot of the revenue is going to come from the world's largest companies. so that's different than they have they get all of their revenue from 250 million different users. so i think the innovation is going to drive the business. it's always driven the netflix business, but there are a lot of changes coming, and they're

innovators i think they'll navigate those changes very well. >> jason, fair to ask if they are going to be able to seamlessly roll out ad viewing when they couldn't roll out their live event sunday night? >> yeah, i think the ad supported component is more complex than the live. it will have its challenges. the encouraging part is in the teething period of the ad tier they're putting up good numbers. so we talked about a $7.50 advertising revenue. i think that's the floor, not the s.e.a.l.ing in the u.s -- ceiling in the u.s. so it won't be without pay, but i think you'll get a parallel lift >> that's how you get a $400 price target we can tell everyone wants more details on ads thank you so much today. see you soon mark douglas and jason coming up, tesla earnings.

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since march of 2020. elsewhere, cnbc.com's pro team is highlighting the most heavily shorted stocks on the street here is the reveal carvana up there with 56%. novavax, 45% and just below them, 39% short interest, and all of this ai hype, shares are up 14% over the past 52 weeks. for the full list, go to bcom what will it take to just start this space and how should it be regulated or not we'll debate, next financial pla? - i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®.

♪ ♪ welcome back to "the exchange." the push to ai has chipmakers rallying after a tough 2022. nvidia up nearly 90% amd up almost 40%. each intel climbing 20%. bank of america estimates that nvidia holds 75% of the chip

market shares are trading near the 52-week highs. joining me now is a senior semi conductor analyst at bank of america securities >> thank you for having me >> was it just yesterday that microsoft, who is trying to make some of their own chips now to not have to give quite so much share to nvidia, at some point will people have to adapt because they have almost a monopoly in the market that they created. >> there are many early stages of the adoption of this ai this is probably the first year of what could be a five or ten-year investment cycle. the main requirement is very high levels of competition, advanced levels of networking. so it requires more than just making the first generation of a chip you really need the computing, so you need to be good in the front end of the design and good on the software and developer

side and you need to do that with a lot of scale. so nvidia checks all of those boxes. but that doesn't mean they will have 100% market share you will see google has always had a product called tpu amazon has a product over the last five years, nvidia's data center business grew ten times, despite all that competition. i think it takes us to the next level of complexity of this chip making so we think that nvidia can hold or expand their market share >> is it true that some of the newer chips, they can be $20,000, $30,000 a pop >> you have to look at the range of investments going into this market, along with the ones overseas spend over $150 billion in cloud spending. that's a lot for a number of public workloads

but what is common is this adoption of ai ai is what helps them mass customize their offering for a whole range of recommendation systems, e-commerce, social, and now this new form of generative ai i think we are in the early stages of that so yes, it is true that nvidia's newer products are two to three times as expensive what they are replacing. but keep in mind the amount of performance optimization they offer is eight to ten times the products they are replacing. >> wow >> i think that is the key so that's on a per unit basis that they are offering a lot more performance than they used to in the past that's the value proposition >> it's incredibly value and to the u.s. in particular if the government ever moved to restrict sales externally, do you know what the breakdown is in terms of u.s. versus foreign sales or china in particular >> sure. so there are restrictions already in terms of the most advanced ai products that they

can ship to china. they have modified those products to conform with u.s. restrictions china is only 15%, 20% of their sales. the most advanced products are still dominated in use in the u.s. enterprises so restrictions are there. so the other thing to keep in mind when you look at the china hyper scale market, it's a very small part of global spending. most of the cases in china tend to be consumer dominated so we do expect the u.s. market to be very strong, 70%, 80% of demand but they have been able to modify their products to conform with u.s. restrictions to ship to china, as well. >> if all this now seems so

obvious, why didn't we see it a year ago, you know >> it's a good point what really changed is late last year when open ai put this interface out to the public, and i think that has stimulated a lot of attention it's created really this cycle of adoption that is just kicking off. it's not just for hyper scalers. each of them used to be a starter at one point now what we have in the valley is 300, 400 startup companies trying to develop new and innovative applications with this new technology. so when they do that, they need computing power that is available on the cloud that is where the need is that we think can grow even faster than anticipated >> it was the breakthrough event of the year, so it explains why nvidia is all the talk right now. thank you so much. we appreciate it today >> thank you let's stick with ai.

my next guest is making it a core part of his business, enabling customers to build apps without coders sounds great to me we bring in founder and ceo of builder.ai here with steve kovak. before ai became part of this, we had a lot of no code, low code technology. explain that >> sure. when you think about what's happening in the industry, you are having more and more businesses build software just to be relevant the old ways respect going to work any more. so go build whatever you want. the problem is most people can't use excel. they think java is a coffee you buy at starbucks so getting them to build applications, which their business depends on, it's really difficult. >> steve, what would you add >> the thing that interests me about your company and other companies working on similar things, when do you think we'll

get to the point where a goober like me that has no coding experience can tell ai, i want to make an app that does x, how far are we away from that? you start that way with your company, you may be prompted, but you get templates. >> my children do art class on the weekend. you tell them to draw picasso. then you say you can come and paint any of these paintings now you have something to put on the wall you're seeing the same thing we're go ing to a world where it's picking things it knows you understand and creating a combination of things that already exist. >> is builder.ai a consumer or business facing product? give me an example of who is

using it >> we have everyone from a school nursery up to recently we signed up one of the largest pizza distribution companies in the world. 80% of our customers build software applications to help them engage with their customers. whether it's commerce, retail, restaurants. 20% of our customers use this software what we have built is a way to use reusable features. you can have a log-in for a pizza distribution app or a log-in, logging into an enterprise system. >> i think some of us, we grew up in this era where we got technology right, because it was -- we were the first generation to use it speaking just for myself, this is way past my level of expertise. so i have to hand it over. i can't really see somewhat i'm doing.

i don't have that transparency i can't build it myself. that makes me nervous. just that sense of when i'm doing plug and play, what happens when things start breaking or i want to customize? >> i don't think it's a world where you talk to an ai and say build me something there's always going to be a human in the loop. it's a matter of howmuch is human and how much is ai so we got to a happy median where it's 1.2 human beings to build a piece of software. it used to be ten. at some point, you will need a human expert so this is a shift allowing the more creative part of human nature to kick in, rather than mundane, benign stuff. >> one more question how quickly did you use -- i'll just say chatgbt like interface,

what language model, how quickly did you embed that it's really only came for a lot of us, came to sort of notice about six months ago >> you know, we offer now, especially the last few months, i hear people talking about this to me, l&ms are not the be all and end all of ai. when you think about a language model, it's knowledge based system for us, the approach started with, how do we build a software brain that understands when you talk about log-in or payments, what are the other things you could be talking about so once we built enough of the knowledge graph that we could understand what a customer is talking about, the knowledge craft started three, four years ago. then it's about getting enough

data now it's really smart. we ran six months worth of customer conversation, and she found 98% of the features that the human found. but she found 107% of the features that were discussed so she's more accurate than a human being. >> and is it a pay for months type of product. what's the business mod snell >> you pay for feature each feature has a subscription. and then there is an expert network that helps you put the last mile together customization, colors, logo, business logic that's where it is so important, because average customer today, they can't use excel >> they're trying to run a pizza business no one wants to mess with excel. steve, last word >> i know you say we're in the

aol moment others say we're in the iphone moment i guess my question is, we hear justin wong from nvidia talk about this iphone moment, doing what you are saying. it sounds like we're not there yet, though. is he wrong about that, is he overhyping it? >> i think it's context. so if you are saying can you please help me generate a picture of morocco, fabulous are we in a world where wyou ned cancer detection absolutely not, but it can as assist today, ai is like a child. children learn on two things rules and values so we created some rules, because we realized what happened in chatgbt. the problem you have is when a child is born, parents build the value system the small amount of information that they can access this child is born with the world as its information store

>> so you need good people training this. >> exactly >> great to have you here. thanks for your time steve, thank you very much, as well still ahead here on "the exchange," spring housing season kicked off with welor rates and cooling prices but now it's a different story we have the latest read on all of that activity, right after this but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers and stores on america's most reliable 5g network. that sounds just paw-fect. terrier-iffic i labra-dore you round of a-paws at&t 5g is fast, reliable and secure for your business.

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one is we're working with clients to try to embed cybersecurity in everything they do number two, we have a human element. we have multigenerational workers with different perspectives about whose responsibility cybersecurity is. >> can you be more specific how you're working with clients to do this? >> we do everything from helping to develop cybersecurity strategies to implement them there is a great example where we work with a manufacturing company to help them protect 30 manufacturing sites around the world. we put in security control to help us find bad actors in the environment and we wound up saving that company over $42 million. just a great return on investment for them. >> thank you so much for sharing your expertise >> thank you ed to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire go. go lights. go big city lights. go spotlights. go stadium lights.

emerson software helps clean energy become reliable electricity. go “good night." go boldly. emerson. welcome back, everybody. you could call it a spring setback for the housing market, although it's been busy around here mortgage rates are climbing again. let's get to diana with the latest >> rates are moving decidedly higher the average on the 30-year fixed rose to 6.75% today, up 36 basis points from just one week ago. the start of that rise last week caused applications to purchase a home to drop 10% from the week before, according to the mortgage bankers association buyer demand was 36% lower than the same week a year ago when the 30-year fixed was averaging

5.2% fha demand dropped the most and the average loan size increased to its highest level in a month, indicating first-time buyers are pulling back wealthier buyers may be seeing difficulty banks had been offering lower rates, but that is much tighter now compared to last year. this has to do with those recent regional bank failures that rippled through the industry on the rhefi side, 56% lower thn a year ago not a lot of folks that could benefit at today's higher rates. >> thank you, diana. we appreciate it up next, near-term options in tesla a 15% move in either direction there are only four bullish ratings. we have the action, the story, and the trade on those names, next in "earnings exchange." you should be listening to me. you want to be rich like me? you want to trust me on this one.

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welcome back let's get to today's earnings exchange one name there today and a couple on tech as we trade one big mover today and preview who else we'll hear from travelers is who i'm talking about, shares up about 7% after their strong results

travelers also upped its buyback program by $5 billion and hiked its dividend to a dollar a share. let's trade it now with steve grasso great to see you let's start with travelers big pop, still down 1% year to date what do you do with it >> so this one i'll start where you started. so they boosted their dividend, the record day for that dividend to own the stock is june 9 so people still want to own things that have a return on it, so you could see some follow through on this buying if you look at the buyback, added $5 billion to the buyback, $1.6 billion left. so that has a bit of a stabilizer to it you don't buy a stock because of the buyback. because the buyback is not able to run the stock up due to the regulations that are required within a buyback i'd wait on this one because

whenever you see a pop like this, they always come back and there is always a little bit of reversion. i would wait to the 100th day holds which is the 182.20 level. let's see if that can hold for about three days >> you say this landscape has been much more cautious than today's action would have you see it so you're waiting. let's talk about tesla, shares are up nearly 50%, but they are town about a percent today after another round of price cuts. let's get to phil lebeau with that story and preview >> it is all about the automotive groetsss margins the consensus is that it will come in at 20.5% so if it is up a little bit from there, you might see some support for the stock. if it is down, people will say where does this trend end. q1 of '22, it was 30% even and

now expected to be at 20.5 clearly the price cuts have a big impact so when the numbers come in after the bell, that will be what people will be focused on not the only thing, but it will be the primary thing.credibleint drop steve, is that enough to make you want to sell the stock >> no, the stock market is all relative performance so why don't you slap up there gm's profit margin on evs or ford ford is due to lose $6 billion in three years on evs. and once they stabilize, they are trying to get to a gross margin of 8% so most of these newcomers to the ev world don't make any profit tesla is pretty of the only one who makes anything and obviously the adaeadoption

for evs still in the single digits so if we can start climbing from there, tesla is pretty shrewd. they are weeding out the competition because the competition can't raise prices while tesla is cutting them. and the stock is up 48% year to date but on a one year performance, it is town down 46%. and one last thing, you said the implied option move is 15% that probably if we're lucky and we get a pop, that gets you to almost the 200 day moving average which is right around $213 >> i can hear people cheering you on okay we'll see if they can meet those expectations and we'll turn to finally snl green. mo morgan stanley expects office re-earnings to contract 10%, but

they are on track to hit leasing target >> yeah, and we all know office is under are pressure, but sl green does have its advantage due to about poexposure in highr representing in new york and new leasing has been on track. refinancing on its loan is also a big one given higher interest rates and there will likely be x commentary on its property going three a refi and we'll be looking for anything on return to work >> and steve, i'm trying to figure out this way he will break with this. >> well, when you look at the chart, it is below all its moving averages. it hasn't been above its moving averages since april of 2022 so when you look at everything that diane that just said, the

impending too many, $1.6 trillion of commercial loans coming due by the end of 2025 or so so if you look at the performance basis on this one, down 67%, year to date down 25%. about yo but month to date, up around 6% or so. so people are rushing into this to try to gain a little bit of beta here. all the bad news seems to be out there, so you might have a little bit of a window to rally this one back before that impending doom in the commercial real estate coming due actually really comes due >> and diane narksadiana, are ta barometer for the rest of the industry >> i don't think that you can go for the rest of the industry because as we know all real estate is local and that goes for office as well so it depends on how they are

concentrated very much in new york city. >> for better or worse >> one last thing, you would have been a great teacher, you saw me raise my hand short interest is above 20% and dividend yield is 14%. a hint of anything good in this, the stock rallies. >> you're right, dividends are drawing people in in a major way. thank you both very much that does it iit for the ehae xg o tyler is getting ready

good afternoon, welcome to "power lunch." coming up, disney drama, the company's battle with florida governor desantis taking a turn. can the company win this fight with