i like it still. >> six-month t-bill, 5.5 yield that's what i'm buying >> joey? >> egt corps >> good stuff. thanks, everybody. i'll see you on "closing bell. "the exchange" is now. thank you, scott welcome to "the exchange." i'm kelly evans. a tentative debt deal has been reached, but we look at the hurdles that remain and how accused impact banks, inflation and the fed. is a rate pause out of the question if it passes? plus, there's an item in the debt deal that could be problematic for consumers and the economy. that's especially true, given the timing mark zanldzy is here to explain why he's worried and bitcoin hitting its highest

level since the beginning of may. crypto has momentum, but our guest says he's not buying the hype the dow negative by 128 points or a third of a percent decline. and the s&p 500, up 3.5 points, but staying above this 4200 level, close thing at the end of last week, gave people confidence with the idea that this really could be sustained nvidia up 4%, moving into that $1 trillion market cap zone. again, this is just more people piling into the trade, it makes it the first u.s. chipmaker to hit that $1 trillion milestone tesla is also one of the top gainers, as elon musk heads to china for the first time in three years. 3.5% gain in tesla to just shy of $200 a share today. and crude, wti down more than 4%

right now. dipping back below $70 a barrel at this moment we're pretty much just sitting here at session lows into the close. this is uncertainly over the debt deal. and opec talks, on pace for the worst month since september. so a fly in the ointment, or perhaps just a sign that supply can come back in line. the debt deal we begin with. gop opposition is growing, so we get more >> it's beginning to look a lot like getting a deal done was the easy part. now the challenge is getting the votes. we just heard from the conservative house freedom caucus where some members are expressing dismay over the terms of the deal speaker mccarthy negotiated with joe biden. >> this deal fails, fails completely that's why these members and others will be absolutely opposed to the deal, and we will do everything in our power to

stop it. and end it now >> that tees up a possibly tense moment with the house rules committee, expected to meet at 3:00 p.m. to move this legislation. that panel is controlled by republicans by a 9-4 margin. so if three republicans vote against the rule, allowing the bill to move forward, that could kill the deal, unless the panel's democrats also vote to pass it. so that could present a challenge here for the speaker, who is working with an extremely thin majority overall. the entire republican conference is expected to meet to discuss the deal the bill moves to the house floor as early as tomorrow because joe biden backs the deal, most democrat also support it, as well. but there have been some complaints that the deal gives away too much to the republicans. it's not clear how many votes biden can muster to pass his deal, either challenges for democratic and republican leadership.

>> would you say at this time that they are mostly anticipated challenges or at what point does this cloud the prospect of really getting it done >> i think we'll have a good picture at 3:00 when we see the house rules committee meet if they iron that out at 3:00, you'll see that this is on a path to passing in the house of representatives. if there is any squirrely moments there, then you look at the house conference republican meeting this evening to see if there is any rebellion in the ranks. so far, no indications this is not going to pass, but just something to watch >> great point thank you. some are worried the debt deal could spark higher interest rates and a more hawkish fed but my next guest says it will be good for the agreement. joining me now are my guests welcome to you both. jameel, i'll start with you.

not that i normally ask you for your s&p price targets or anything, but do you broadly think will be taken in stride for the markets and that it should be? >> i think absolutely. certainly major banks are assuming there's going to be a deal the kind of people who advise major banks assume there's going to be a deal so if there was not going to be a deal, i think we would already be seeing it i like the phrase "squirrely moments. we haven't seen those squirrely moments. people you expect to be bad mouthing this deal are, so that's not shocking. if everything goes smoothly at this rules committee meeting later, a very positive sign that supports the kind of confidence you are seeing on wall street right now. >> jimmy, i pointed this out before so a decade ago when we had the really bad debt ceiling fight, we had half the debt-to-gdp rate we have. why were we so obsessed with it

back then, and this time around, eh, no big deal. >> i think broadly people are thinking about the debt a little bit differently. the fact that we've had much higher debt-to-gdp ratios but still low interest rates has helped support the idea that we have a greater sort of runway on our debt that we thought previously also, listen, the -- after the pandemic, we expected the debt to go up that has happened. and i think just among voters, there isn't the sort of concern that we saw previously, whether that's right or wrong. >> evan, you made the point pushing back against some of the narratives going and that a deal isn't necessarily going to be a bad thing. people have been concerned this will trigger -- again, people who want to put their money in money market funds have been waiting for this to happen so the idea is we're going to drain money out of the banking

system again why is that concern overblown? >> yeah, this idea that liquidity is going to be drained from the system -- we certainly think that's overblown for a few reasons. first, there's plenty of reserves in the banking system so even though you'll see some decline in reserves, the overall level is fine. second, janet yellen is no rookie with this stuff she understands that the way to the financial system works, and she's not going to issue up thes of t-bills into the market, and finally, there's not that strong of a causal link between reserves in the system and what happens to risk assets banks don't need as many reserves to lend out to consumers or businesses. >> so do you think that the system is going to be at all tested in the next coming months or do you think that whole experience is largely behind us? >> i think we'll see some

draining of liquidity, but not this major thing that a lot of people are calling for another point is that so much of the liquidity is from money market funds, invested in the fed's overnight repoe facility so it's just money coming out of there and into bills, so the actual reserves on the banking system won't be that much. so i think a lot of this is overblown. >> let me close with a quick comment from each of you it's widely assumed we're going to dip into a recession at some point. what would you say about that assumption based on the way markets are trading and we keep climb thing wall of worry and coming out the other side? >> yeah, it really is a classic situation where you are climbing a wall of worry right into a downturn i think the case for a downturn sort of remains in tact.

you can each make a case the longer it takes to happen, the more severe it will be but i think those stressors and indicators are there, and that would still be my expectation. >> that the -- we're still going to have this broader downturn? >> yes, yes. and to be sure, i think things are fragile enough that if there was a -- the expectations are, we're going to get a deal. no deal, that's the kind of shock we don't need right now. >> evan, are there other shocks you're worried about, and what do you think about the business cycle at this point? >> look, i mean, the fed will keep tightening, that looks quite likely but they're tightening in large part because growth is fine. yes, we see some leading indicators weakening, but the housing market looks like it's bottoming. we're seeing some of the internals of manufacturing also inflect higher

so as much as these leading indicators have been decelerating, that's been happening for a long time. now we are seeing some -- we think it's a decent virenvironm. >> it seeming like households are telling us something >> you know, if we could look at only one principle, it would be initial jobless claims after rising for a little bit, they have stabilize over the last couple of months. continuing jobless claims are coming down. so we should expect some labor market softening that's what we're seeing when you look at payrolls but it's so slow it's such a slow slowdown in the economy that there's just no indication that we're going to fall off a cliff >> all right thank you both for your time today.

zeroing in now on the banks in particular. my next guest says even with one more rate hike, bank balance sheets are adjusting joining me now is the president of potomac wealth advisers welcome. >> good to be here >> maybe that should feel like a safe place, but the banks, the banking system could just be its own animal what gives you the confidence to say that, you know, this is safe foot treading here >> it's not an easy trade, and it's not today, run out and buy this it's down significantly off its peak, and it was largely because of an asset liability mismanagement and pricing of bonds on svb's balance sheet every day that goes forward where rates have stabilize, every day bonds in a bank portfolio mature closer to par

so the thought that there's continued deterioration, if we have stable rates, sun founded if rates drift down a little, and the fed is at or around the last of the rate hikes, we think the balance sheet of bank also improve, and investors have overreacted. you want to go to where the value is i would rather be in a beaten down sector sold off on emotion than one that is overvalued by historical standards >> meaning areas we talked to you before that you like what do you think is going on with tech stocks, nvidia or the ai boom or hoefr you want to describe it? >> well, i always said we never abandoned the tech trade but that was mostly because we thought in a slowing growth environment, investors would want tech. i underestimated the impact of this ai frenzy as did a lot of

people so we're not getting out of tech, even though we feel it's fully run up and is vulnerable, but we're not allocating new money. i think it's a long-term investment to be in these big mega cap names if you try to time them too much, you would have missed a great move from nvidia if you had gotten out when it was near $100 a share so it moved too far too fast, but i wouldn't back up the truck and build a balanced portfolio around an area just because it's the hottest sector >> why, just going back to circle in on your point about the regional banks, why not pick name by name, a strong performer or something you have personal nothing of, opposed to the etf there's a lot in there for better or worse. >> i thought you were going to ask that, and i came up with the answer that unless i'm reading the bank's reports, their filing with the fed, and i'm combing

through every report and doing the asset liability analysis myself, and i know about the commercial loan portfolio and what's under the hood, i'm going to diversify that single bank risk away. one other thing i didn't mention i'm positive on, on regional banks, they don't own a significant amount on a relative basis of commercial real estate. i don't think their loan books are perilous relative to other banks. i'm more concerned about smaller banks with higher percentage of real estate, commercial loans. so i think in general, the balance sheets are strong, they're going to improve, and i would rather have a diversified basket of them, opposed to one bank that might give me an unpleasant surprise. >> he had the answer ready to go it makes a lot of sense. mark, thanks for your time today. before i let you go, as a parting comment, 4200 on the s&p. we cleared the debt ceiling, all the rest of it what do you tell people about the next move for the equity

market and is it a move that is fundamentally justified to you or just the momentum kind of play >> i think if we're talking in early next year, people will be glad they stayed in the market, but they think it's going to be without a bumpy ride whether it's getting this debt deal approved, if it's an earnings disappointment. remember, this market multiple sin is inflated. if we work through a few corners of that, i think investors, if they sit tight until next year, are going to be placed they did and should consider exposure to stocks on any pullback >> mark, thank you for your time >> good to be here coming up, if the debt deal passes, some 20 million student loan borrowers will resume paying $250 to $400 in august. one of my next guests says that timing could spell trouble

coinbase rallying today. but one of our guests not buying it here's a look at the markets. we have a totally different picture. you can see the dow, now the s&p has turned negative by a point the russell 2,000 is down a half percent. the ten-year yield, just below 3.70 "the exchange" is back after this lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers and stores on america's most reliable 5g network. that sounds just paw-fect. terrier-iffic i labra-dore you round of a-paws at&t 5g is fast,

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welcome back to "the exchange." federal student loan payments have been paused for more than three years. as part of the debt ceiling agreement, borrowers will resume having to make payments again in august and our next guest says the move couldn't come at a worst time. mark zandi joins us now. mark, i feel that every time we say the word "recession" people are screaming at the tv saying, it's not here, where is it everything is fine but articulate the concerns that you have about the timing of these repayments >> sure. kelly, just to be above board, i don't think a recession is going to happen, and i don't think the student loan payments are going to be the thing that pushes us in but they're a weight

it's about 20 million student loan borrowers that haven't been paying they will have to begin paying in september $250, might be about $5 billion person month so in a more typical time, that's not really that big a deal the economy can digest that gracefully but in the current environment, recession risks as high as they are, you know, this can matter but i don't think this is what will push us in, but it's a weight and at an inopportune time >> and there are people who have to restart the payments going, what was the point you know, three years of let's say $250 or whatever it is, a lot of people could have finished paying off those loans. now they have to draw this out

for another three years time and maybe i'm trying to buy a house, and those costs are also sky high it's probably going to leave a very sour taste. >> at the end of the day, that was their decision they could have still kept on paying i would expect most people understood this was a temporary moratorium because of the pandemic now people can get back to work, it was a pretty dark time. this was an effort to help a alleviate the pressure on a group of people that are younger, lower income, if they have any income, and this makes life a little easier for them. but here we are, three years later, and they have to resume making those payments. i suspect for a share, they may not be able to make it my guess is they mostly adjusted their spending to the cash they had, now that cash is going away now they have to face some hard choices there. do i stop paying on my credit

card am i late on my rent payment it will just increase the juggling people will have to do. back in the day, you know, i think they looked at it as a very positive point, not negative >> we've heard analysts be cautious about gym memberships if people say i have to cut something and what will that be? it could be felt in some places more than others i think there was this hope that maybe something would magically -- the biden administration talked about this -- about trying to waive those payments all together. there's been enough rhetoric there might have been a hope of maybe this will go away. the biden administration is hoping that this $10,000 or $20,000 that the supreme court allows them to push that through and that will you havoffset borg >> the student loan forgiveness plan that the president put forward is still in play, but the supreme court will rule on this, and the thinking is they

will strike this down. but the administration has also juiced up so-called income repayment plans, plans where you are under a lot of stress and shelling out a high share of your income. if you fpay for a certain period of time and still not paying that off, you can have some if not all of the debt forgiven so there are other ways to navigate around this but odds are, i don't think we'll get the full forgiveness plan >> you wonder a little about those incentives, if your income is below $125 k --with the labor market, do you see a weakening considerably in the months to come that will be a big determinant whether people can make payments going forward. >> i expect the market to slow meaningfully the average monthly job growth

is 250 a month we'll get add read on friday and i expect it will be closer to 200,000. but i do think the federal reserve will ensure that we get something sub-100-k a month. i think that's what they will need to get inflation and wage growth back down to their target so i think i would count on the labor market weakening here. one thing i will say, though, kelly, the labor market is resilient. they know their number one problem is finding and retaining workers. in that context, i don't think it will fall apart if we don't see more layoffs, i don't see a recession. >> what's the -- is the debt deal there, is it slight, substantial? >> assuming the fed doesn't react to that, regarding policy,

they'll shave 0.2 percent of gdp between the fourth quarter of this year and next year when the peak impact will occur that's 150,000 jobs, so not great kind of sort of in the ballpark of what the student loan debt moratorium might mean, but not enough to do the economy in >> mark, thank you so much for your time today. >> sure. thank you. coming up, a funding frenzy the boom at ai is expected to boost capital in the startups, but it could kickstart spending in another part of the valley. plus, this streaming service down this month. could it be poised to unload assets we have the name, the potential buyers, and what's at stake. and here is a look at intel and salesforce p&g is one to have biggest laggards today and 3m, down 1.5%. back after this.

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dominion and eversource down about a half a percent of course, big tech is outperforming again today. microsoft, apple, netflix, all at levels not seen since late 2021 and early 2022. netflix, up more than 3% that's kind of your j outperformer now over to tyler mathsen. >> thank you very much five people unaccounted for after an apartment building plapsed in davenport, iowa over the weekend. the mayor gave the update today amid criticism the city is moving too quickly to demolish the building before making sure no one is still inside protests erupted after a woman was rescued monday night hours after the city ordered the demolition to begin tuesday. a court ruling is clearing

the way for purdue pharma to settle thousands of legal claims over the opioid crisis. the sacklers would give up ownership of purdue and contribute up to $6 billion in cash over time, of which $750 million would go to individual opioid victims the second mission to the iss is headed back to earth. the four-person crew completed several scientists experiments kelly, back to you >> tyler, thank you. coming up, only one more trading day in may after today while some are taking money off the table, others say tech history points to a sustained

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welcome back nvidia, the first chipmaker to hit a market cap of $1 trillion,

is trading at an all-time high today. applied materials, amd, 52-week highs of their own this is fueling concerns about a bubble in the sector, but history suggests there could be more room to run diedra bosa joins us to explain. >> i showed you this chart before, because i think it's a good one some people are looking at it as an analogy for the platform shift we are seeing. it's the shift to mobile internet semis were recognized by the market they monetized the new technology, infrastructure devices came next. then the platforms of google, mobile search and amazon but back then, semis were at the forefront. this time it is up doubtedly nvidia investors are looking for --

expectations are high. i picked some gains today. it's up 25% or so since it was called the most underappreciated ai play. burnstein wrote this morning, relating to this huge surge in these ai names that we have seen this year, they said if there was ever a year to consider to sell, it might be this one there's good reason to take money off the table after the run up in those seven stocks that have led the broader market gains this year. but generative ai is even more revolutionary, and there could be more trillion dollar companies to come. and kelly, it's interesting to look at the evolution of big tech first it was f.a.n.g., then it was f.a.n.g. with an extra "a," now what some are calling the magnificent seven. so instead of big tech giving up its leadership, there's only more entering that trillion dollar club. more big tech becoming bigger.

>> so it starts to the narrow f.a.n.g. and broadens out. i totally take your point that you get to a certain --it's silly to try to come up with just four letters and four stocks any more. but what do you do when you are starting out with nvidia and a market cap of $1 trillion? what is the next layers to rise feel like that's where the next money is to be made. >> right when we think about that chart and the mobile internet shift, it was the chip maker's first. you saw google and apple and amazon become trillion dollar companies. they only got bigger and bigger. if you think that the generative ai shift is going to be as big or bigger, there could be more trillion dollar companies to come, or we could just see big tech get bigger and bigger but there's more to come here and the market recognizes that at different points. yes, it's the chipmakers now a lot of folks are talking about data analytics

this is the oil or gold, whatever you want to call it, in this next shift. you can look at companies like salesforce, they made that acquisition of tablo the models are going to be most important, because that's building these large language models >> diedra, thank you we appreciate it > can the ai boom save commercial real estate >> are we putting too much on the emergence of ai as a major market force let's ask my guest sam, good to see you again sit hype or justified? go ahead >> hype. [ laughter ] it's pretty simple look, the answer is everyone is excited about some of the opportunities around ai. they are real.

i think this idea that the winners of last generation are going to win in ai again this idea that all this commercial real estate is saved by ai is a bridge too far for me sounds a little silly. >> well, maybe you can enlighten us how bad is the office activity the in silicon valley, a totally different story, what's the receiv situation like there and are people saying i want to be the next nvidia or whatever it is, are going to be crowded into these offices working on executing that plan? >> look, i think the reality is this is not a boom that is very conducive to startups. sure, there will be a lot of companies started, but when it comes to commercial real estate, where you need to drive that is companies that are growing

unbelievably quickly and i think we're going to see this boom is dominated almost completely by the incumbents so i would not expect some sort of silicon valley, you know, thousands of startups that will be super successful to drive the commercial real estate story >> it's a great point about where we are in the cycle. what about diedra's point and where do people think the next wave of successful, i'll use the word "startups" but successful investment dollars will be going sh is it data analytics? talk to me about where that path will lead. >> look, i think the big thing people are missing about ai is it's just an accelerant, a propellent to what is already there. you can take adobe and add ai and it's a great story

you can take almost thing where generative ai that you can make better, more efficient, create better experiences it's not that this won't permeate everything. it will. and it will be very powerful from that perspective. i don't think there are big themes to play i think it's just good startups that you can push in a lot of different ways in silicon valley, most of that stuff will go to zero, some might be successful. but that's not going to be a big story. the big story is everything gets slightly better, right and that can create improved margins, it can create new consumer experiences, et cetera. but i don't think there's some big play revolutionized by this. >> the one thing that doesn't make sense is data centers when nvidia raises revenue to $11 billion, and this talk about data centers, we're going to be a nation of data centers and

self-storage that's what this is going non-commercial real estate and it feels like there will be huge data center growth to get that compute in one place >> there will be data center growth but how much of ai will be done centrally in these big data centers versus being done locally. there will be different networks, and yeah, there will be investment in data centers, but i don't think it's going to be a massive revolution versus it will be growth. there will be opportunities, and i think you'll see the big cloud providers, the amazons, the microsofts that will dominate this more than anyone else >> how bad would sentiment be if not for the ai boom? what would we have to talk about otherwise? >> there are things to talk about. i think the thing that's interesting is silicon valley, a lot of these things are th themeatticly driven.

if you want to move billions of lp capital, it's really easy to say we're on the theme of blank right now. we are in a moment where this theme is overblown people are putting too much money in, but it's easy. but the reality is, the beauty of technology and where we are, there's a thousand of interesting businesses they might not be the sexy theme of the moment, but when we are looking at small business opportunities, there are all sorts of platform opportunities. you just have to be careful. whatever the world is too excited about, whether it's ai or whatever, your skepticism should go. >> very well said. sam, thanks for your time today. >> thanks so much. goldman sachs reportedly preparing for another round of layoffs. this according to "the wall street journal," breaking just a few moments ago.

it comes as the big financial firms feel the pain from a plunge in activity goldman shares down 1% on this session. still ahead, we know who's playing in this year's nba finals, but where we will be watching future games? tte potential $5 billion a year bale brewing with media companies. that's next. this is the all new, all electric lucid air. a car that goes as far as it does fast. as sleek as it is... spacious. as smart... as it is beautiful. introducing the lucid air. experience the best. ♪

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welcome back shares of netflix and paramount was the miystery chart we teased climbing higher today. julia is here with the details what do you see? >> kelly, let's start out with paramount, surging late friday the firm saying that national

musements plans to borrow $125 million, raising the odds of paramount selling off assets, saying they expect them to be increasingly negotiable at prices you would sell assets, will limit downside for investors. meanwhile, netflix shares up 3%, pointing to data that shows that the paid sharing crackdown is working very well in the u.s so less so in the uk there was an increasing focus on profitability rather than just those subscriber numbers, getting people to start paying for access to netflix is seen as a key for the streamer kelly? >> so paramount could be not under duress but forced to make these sales? >> well, i think the question is whether they're more open to making these sales there's been a lot of speculation that some of those assets owned by paramount,

whether it's the studio itself or whether it's some of their tv assets, would be right for acquisition, and whether this would be a good time to sell off assets or maybe combine with another company. >> so there was tons of advertising for max on the nba -- like literally there were long trailers and buried little clips, which is good transition talking about the nba more broadly. who will get the rights here i heard a podcast where they were saying we have a good working relationship with the nba, and he didn't sound like he wanted to lose that. >> that's right. certainly espn is a key partner for the nba. as the finals start this week, those rates negotiations are heating up current rights holders, which is espn, owned by disney, and tnt, owned bh ed by warners brothersy are in a negotiating window

ahead of their $2.7 billion contract expiring in 2025. when that expires, we can expect interest from streamers, including amazon and apple amazon has already partnered with the nba to stream games in brazil and shown its expertise in streaming with the nfl games it has and apple is showing its growing interest in sports, buying up rights to soccer and baseball. now, the nba is in the spotlight right now, as all other major sports rights are tied up for years. playoffs ratings were up meaningly from last year, and regular season ratings were flat we could see streaming rights split up and also some rights still going to that linear tv bundle >> the last major sports field to be up for some time it's hugely important.

shares of coinbase up 13% this year. one analyst says he's seeing a troubling trend emerge that's next. lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers and stores on america's most reliable 5g network. that sounds just paw-fect. terrier-iffic i labra-dore you round of a-paws at&t 5g is fast, reliable and secure for your business.

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. richmond fed president just speaking at an event steve liesman has the headlines. >> yeah, saying fed policy is under restrictive tear toerks b directory but earn uncertainty. and he says he has one of the higher rate forecasts on the committee and he hasn't backed off of that yet. at least so he could be in the 5.5 range which tells you that maybe it has to more to do -- doesn't say when, but he said inflation will be stubborn, more than many would hope, and he is looking to be convinced that demand is coming down and that will bring down inflation he is hearing less about the risk of wage increases important to say here he is also pointing out that he is not hearing much about the banking trouble out there. points out that the banking numbers from last friday from

the fed were pretty healthy when it came to lending so it is another reason why the fed could go ahead if it wanted to because the banking issue and debt default issues look like they are going away. >> steve, appreciate it. dow still down 150 and crypto having a strong start to the week. coinbase shares on up weight bitcoin up more than 2% holding on to nearly 70% gain so far this year. and both trading in tandem, but the next guest says there is a growing diversion. and joining me now is dan dolove what bothers you -- we should add you are no coinbase fan. >> no. >> what do you think is going on lately with the price of bitcoin and coinbase >> we've been bearish since day one when everyone was dreaming the dream. i think what is going on, retail is dead. if you think about it, 95% of

coinbase's revenue, trading revenue, comes from retail investors and retail is basically dead we track volumes every day and they are at an all-time low even as the stock is ripping. it just shows you there is a huge disconnect between volumes and the stock. >> and some are saying that it is great, look at bitcoin, it has institutional support and they haven't bailed. but that may well be the case long term. but for coinbase, a big problem. >> because the way they make money is when people come into the casino and gamble. and people are just not doing it and it will take years for people to come back. and that is why the stock today, i can't explain it, but it will end in tears >> let me ask you about one you are much more positive on which is sofi. as student loan payments are set to restart, a lot of people have pointed that they could benefit from those facing that and saying that i definitely need to go in for a refi is that going to be a big boon

for them >> i think it is a huge boon this is priced in like every bad thing that happened including like and endless moratorium on student loans. and now that we're starting to talk about the end of it, people will refinance and sofi will make a lot of money. so for sofi, all the bad news is priced in and none of the good news >> and there is an 8& pop in the shares today still well shy of your par get which was 9.50 but still plenty of up side. last thing to ask you about is what is going on at paypal you've done some work. what do you find at the heart of the investment thesis and reason why you are positive on the shares >> just real quick ten seconds, one of the big debates is that they are handing on over discounts to get people to use the app. we did a 30 page deep dive that shows you there is no evidence of pricing concessions on

paypal's side. that should be a huge relief for investors. and 30 page report, very detailed >> that said, still just as a casual observer, it seems like things like apple pay could cannibalize it >> true. but a new person can come in, do something with rewards, do something with venmo just so many call options that are not priced in. and if you believe in it, you believe in those call options. >> what would be the one that would get you most excited for the new ceo to do? >> i think rewards is the most interesting thing. people use credit cards because of rewards and paypal bought honey for that few years ago, but they did nothing with it so if they can get it right, it will be a huge thing >> dan, tour deforce thank you. that does it for "the

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