matt herper from stat news, thank you. we're going to have much more on the health care sector tomorrow, when we have joined by jeff tangney. and with quite a day of news, both there and from apple, that's going to do it for "overtime. "fast money" begins right now. right now on "fast," the vision pro headset the tech giant's first major new product cycle since 2014 bob iger on hand the stock hitting an all-time ahead of today's announcement, but finishing the day in the red. plus, bitcoin blues. charges filed against binance and accusing them of lying to regulators the news sending shockwaves through the crypto space the latest on this developing story straight ahead. and later, gm's ceo with a warning on the ev road ahead s target's stock is slumping, and the nuclear move in ukrewe n

yan yum. we start off with apple's first major product launch since 2014. the company unveiling a mixed reality headset called the vision pro at its worldwide developer's conference today apple calling it revolutionary the headset, selling for 3500 bucks, will have disney plus available day one. shares of apple slipping, falling 1% apple early today hit an all-time high, dating back to its ipo in 1980. cnbc's steve kovach is out in cupertino covering the event steve, this is much more expensive than we thought. did it seem cooler, not as cool as well thought? >> well, i got to look at the device, melissa, but i didn't get to use the device yet, so, they only had it on display in the steve jobs theater, i just got back a few minutes ago after cheque it out and it was on a

pedestal there, tim cook came out and did his photo op and showed it off. but right now, no one really outside of apple has had a chance to use it it is hard to tell if it lives toup the promise that we saw in the presentation but what is the pitch, i guess, is the big takeaway from here, besides the price and the release date, of course. and focused a lot on entertainment. the surprise appearance by disney ceo bob iger. that sent disney shares positive today. they were down at session lows until iger appeared on that stage and popped up. and look, it's all about immersive entertainment and this kind of idea that you can kind of wrap yourself into your content, for example, a lot of what they talked about, especially in the disney part of the event was this idea that you can paes a digital television screen or movie theater screen and make it feel like it's 100 feet tall inside your living room that seemed pretty cool, but again, we have to try it to see how it works on the other hand, there are some productivity stuff, i'll

point out that as far as apps, it is going to run every ipad ab app. so, if you have an ipad app you like to use, you're going to be able to use it on your face pretty soon, melissa but yeah, that is the big thing here it's, now we get to figure out, okay what is this device for in apple's lineup, and we're not going to really find out until early next year when it goes on sale >> the event is the worldwide developer's conference, so, is the thinking that, 3500 bucks, probably too expensive for mass market adaptation and maybe this is sort of a soft launch for a new device to get developers sort of, you know, in the fold, creating things for use with this >> yeah, that's part of it i mean, you can buy three macbooks that they announced today on top of that -- on top of the headset, and you still won't equal the price, necessarily, of the vision pro, so, it is going to be expensive. it is right out the gate going to price many people out

just the price alone makes it sound like a luxury item but it doesn't sound experimental a lot of people going into today were thinking, this is going to be -- they're going to pitch it as an experimental gadget, of course, that's happening, and they did talk about that today, but they really are making this out to be a kind of mainstream device i will say, that pro mon kerr does tell us a lot of how they envision it, and, you know, maybe down the line it gets cheaper and more accessible for more people, but right now, this is a high end, unique entertainment device for the most part. >> all right, steve, thank you steve kovach out in cupertino for us dan nathan, before this thing saw the light of day, you were slamming this. so, now what >> it really is the price point. the way you laid it out made since. they are laying out their future for virtual reality, ar, however you see the mixture, and it really is about other services they're going to be layering on, but it is also what the developers are going to do

within this e cosystem if they priced it at $2,500, it wouldn't have created anymore deand if facebook is lowering the prices for their oculuses dramatically. and i think what steve said is very important that's the first thing that hit me usually, a company introduces this product, then they have a higher version of the product, then they call it pro here so, i think for mass adop should be adoption, it has to be below a smartphone, you are not going to replace every year, so, listen, the fact that the stock was trading at $185, all-time high, while this event was going on, and it sold off, it kind of reminded us of the olden days when people got really excited about new phone, they used to introduce the new phones at wwdc so, to me, it's a vision for their future, this is going to be a lhuge mrplatform, but not right now. >> yeah, i agree

i don't expect to see a giant line item of these sales in the next quarter or so, when they are more widely available. so -- the stock, i don't know what was priced in today for this something, clearly, right? and when it came out with the price, then the stock price actually started to get hit. so, you know, it's expensive i actually sold some upside apple calls today. i just feel like a lot of hype priced in, by the rumor, sell the news, as you said, and i don't know, this is a hardware thing, with software attached, so, what is the right multiple for this i don't know but i don't think the revenue line will be huge. so, at the moment, nothing's changed. i do wonder, is this a positive or negative for meta for their product? does it increase the pie and the interest -- >> right, boost interest overall. >> boost intermore broadly or a fight for share already? i don't know >> and if you are looking at the market, i would make a lot of arguments in favor of meta over apple for the next leg higher of

megacap tech and in a world where i think megacap tech is simply -- if we believe these multiples are appropriate in apple, gotten up to 30 times, it's about 27 times if you listen to the street i don't think that's really the right multiple i think it's high here but as long as -- and i've said this before, the market is going to be led by semis and semis will lead qs and qs will lead the s&p. that's the only thing i know, i don't know when that's going to stop in that environment, i think meta of all of them. but back to today, i don't believe this is that big of a day for apple, other than people want to see what they're doing i think the services side might differentiate apple because of the services apple can offer native to the hardware, similar to what they're doing with the phone. that's the reason what wethat we're paying what we're paying for apple. you look at the market, i'm hearing 25 billion by 2030 the reason we're paying this for apple is the financial flexibility that the company has, i think their ability to

have turned us all into hardware as a service consumer etc., and that the services dynamic, though it's not where it was five years ago when we really started to up the multiple, it is still part of this, on this install base, that grows andindia is important, just because of that dynamic. we're talking about new install base, even if -- i don't think india is going to beat china, we know what penetration is, that's exciting >> the selloff wasn't as bad as one might have thought, julie, considering we hit an all-time high and we backed off and the stock closed down by less than a percent. so, you have to wonder, if people are expecting a lot from this launch, and you are sort of erasing what was being built up, it wasn't much, so, it seems like the stock moved to an all-time high, not necessarily based on this, is what i'm getting at >> yeah, i think it's more clarity on what the strategy is for this product it was such a vague, unclear product and for me, when i think about it, it's not about selling the headset, it's about the app store, because that's where they make so much money and so, it's incumbent on them to figure out how to get

developers super excited to be developing products so that they can continue to take their 30% easy-peasy without necessarily having to go after their own margin the thing that's tricky about this, think about the watch, right? the watch took a really long time to find its footing and when it first came out, i don't think we would have guessed how much health would be attached to it and i think it's a little bit the case here too. we're not exactly sure what this product is best use case is we're going to leave it kind of broond open, but i think it will eventually take its footing, but i think it's going to take a really long time with this product. >> interesting tim did a little would you rather in the a-block? >> i put it in wherever i can. if you picked me off, good for you. >> you said apple trading at 30 times, and these companies now both have similar market cap you think of apple as a ecocomp, we know the multiple has to do with the multiple they are getting for the installment

base microsoft actually has higher earnings and higher revenue growth and, you know, like, growing double digits. so, it's kind of interesting to me, when you think that apple really did run into this, and maybe it's just passive flows moving in, i mean, all the big names are moving, but it really did feel like it ran into it when was the last time we saw a 4% move from one way to the other in one of these big names? in a very long time, we haven't. >> all right, our next guest calls today a big deal for apple. longtime analyst gene munster attended the event, he's managing partner of deepwater asset management, in cupertino, of course. gene, you just heard basically all of us -- >> yawn. >> this wasn't such a big thing. so, explain to us why this is a big thing in your view >> well, just simply the math that they announce a new hardware product category once every five to ten years. for a company that is very measured in terms of how they

make these announcements, they never jump into a market that's noteworthy. and another piece is to look at the device itself. understand that the commentary around waiting -- this is going to take many years to grow into a big business, i agree with that wholeheartedly, but i want to point out two things that make apple product innovation great. there were two product features in here that no other mixed reality headset has. number one is the ability for the user to have their eyes on the real world at the same time. there is a primal instinct with humans, this may sound obscure, but a primal instinct that humans want to have some form, even if it's a passing, the eyes on the real world. that's one of the reasons that vr headsets have not taken off they picked up on that, i was glad to see that second is gestures and eyes are what is the control of interface for this that's important, so, you don't have to have complicated waves of interacting with these devices. this is important. ultimately, it will take time

for the use cases to form, but they are off to a great start when it comes to the technology piece, the price is prohibitive, all of that is true, but you just need to take a step back, look at the bigger picture here. our collective lives are going to have a spectrum of devices we're going to use, and i believe 10% of apple's revenue is going to come from this wearable >> gene, it's karen, thank you for being on so, just -- how do saw think -- this $3,500 price is really going to shut almost everyone out of the market. how do you see the evolution of this product and the price, let's say, a year, two years out? what is a mass-ish, for them, market for them? >> i think it's below $1,000 it's a light had year away from where we're at today and i would add that i think there's going to be a family of products around here we are hyper focused on this announcement today, but tim cook has long talked about the power of augmented reality this is not augmented reality. this is a step before it

augmented reality is more of less glasses but to answer your question, karen, sub $1,000, $700 is where we get mainstream. what year we're going to get to that probably five years from now, 2028, so, we're many years out the good news is that a little of this is priced in, investors are going to be wait and see approach, little of it is priced in, and there's optionality, as we start to see a family of products come out, the price comes down, it gives room for apple investors to get more excited about what the segment can do >> the other big thing that happened today, gene, apple hitting an all-time high how do you think about the valuation here, given what you've seen today? >> so, i think that there's a shift in how investors are viewing the apple story. this is not about how many iphones they're selling in a quarter, it's act the active base we've seen this trend in the stock over the last six months i think mathematically, that base is going to keep rising and i think this can still have -- should have a premium to consumer staple companies.

coca-cola, proctor & gamble, glor clorox i think this should be in the low 30s. i think there is upside. this is not a stock that i think is going to triple in the next three years, if that's what you're looking for, that's not what apple's going to deliver. but i think a company that can continue to -- a store thatmoves the install base is going to continue to grow and investors can sleep well knowing that is growing and that means higher multiple >> gene, great to see you, thank you. >> thank you >> gene munster. talking about valuation, he compared it to clorox, to -- >> i love that >> to toilet paper maker, i mean, you name it. what do you think of that? >> well, he's going right to the consumer product space and clorox may be not, and maybe not pampers and charmin, but if you think of products that are more staples-like, sure we don't call it a tech company,

we call it a consumer company in some way what are you paying for? look, of course, a premium and again, i get back to their ability right now with their balance sheet to buy back shares and to actually -- none of this adjusted abita garbage, it's real they were able to financial leverage when rates were zero. that's why you own apple i think it is like owning a t-bifl in the tech space >> all right, meantime, the fed's next few moves up for debate traders betting on a pause this month and a high in july steve liesman with the latest expectations for the fed steve? how are they looking >> they're changing. the pause or skip in june remains priced in. but the surprise in the friday jobs report was price out rate cuts by year-end, before the jobs report fed funds future had seen at least one rate cut by december, putting the year-end rate at 4.85%.

now it's over 5%, suggesting markets see the fed holding at that level at least through year-end the result, the gap between where the fedex%s to be and where the market thinks the fed is gg going to be, it was 100 basis points last month, now just 16 so, never mind the gap, we might say. among the reasons for the change, obviously economic data has been coming in stronger. jobs, inflation's been more stubborn and the treasury is rebuilding its coffers after the debt ceiling debate some say they need to put a trillion dollar in bills out into the market. while a paused is priced in for june, a 62% chance of a july h hike is out there. the question is, stocks have been helped by expectations for rate cuts, now they face a challenge from a fed that is believed likely to keep rates above 5%, even when new year's day arrived. it could mean there's more fed

on their radar, melissa. >> steve, when you take a look a year out, where are markets pricing rates? i'm trying to figure out if the markets and the fed are also in the same page in terms of higher for longer also? >> okay. no everybody's got cuts -- a year out, do you want to know what the futures price is, what, in may of '24 >> sure. that's what you got, yeah. that's good enough >> it's -- that's what i got i got 4.33% and for year-end '24, i got 3.45% and then i can tell you what the fed is looking for, in terms of their median forecast, i believe it's in the threes for next year but yeah, everybody's got cuts built in, it's just -- it had been this debate over this year versus next year, and that gap now has closed hang on, i'll get you that for next year. fed funds rate, 4.3% for the end

of the year. a little different 3.1% for 2025. but stuff is going to move around a lot >> sure does steve, thank you steve liesman. >> sure. >> just trying to get at the notion of, you know, we can be on the same page as the fed for the next couple of meetings, but when it comes to the narrative that things will turn south and the fed will have to pivot, where are we on that julie, where are you on that >> yeah, i still think it's unrealistic to assume that there's going to be rate cuts unless something really bad happens, because that last bit of inflation from 5% to 2%, which is the stated goal, that takes time, and it's difficult so, i don't think that we should be hoping for that, because that's very bad news for risk assets and i think -- >> yeah? >> sorry, didn't mean to cut you off, julie >> it happens all the time >> i agree, as well. i look at that curve, we now have a little less than 100 out one year of cuts we had an ism number, talking about this on the call, which is

the second-lowest ism print we've had outside of some cartoonish numbers that don't count around covid, back to the financial crisis s so, the data is on manufacturing, and then nonmanufacturing, which is the biggest part of the economy, doesn't look good. the labor market, we debated this last week, so, i won't get into it, it's strong, but there are signs that you are seeing weakness fed can't do anything here they have to hold the course, whether it's a pause in june doesn't matter >> the market's knowing what the next couple of moves are, that's upside, i think, in terms of planning >> yeah, feels like we're melting up into this and this has been a dangerous period if you are short over the last year and a half, into these kind of earnings periods, which, believe it or not -- >> people like dan nathan. >> well, it worked out well last year, because it came kind of predictable. companies didn't report as bad as expected and then, you know -- it was a tradeable thing. it's not working out great just for all of you people that read the headline here with the s&p in a new bull market, that's

not a playbook that worked particularly well until this time, okay so, everything that these guys just said about the data weakening, the fed has to stay resolute in what they're doing, and then -- i know we're going to talk about crude oil, but look at how crude traded today crude traded today like there is a global slowdown despite the fact that we're seeing production cuts by the saw udis i get it if you are just looking at the stock market, it feels like everything is pretty good and we can deal with 3.7% unemployment rate >> this looks like '74, '75. if you believe the fed is not going to do what they have to do and i think people believe there is a major tech spending dynamic that's going on here, which i don't -- you know, they've been spending this money for a long time i don't think it's new coming up, crypto charges. the world's largest crypto exchange and its ceo facing harsh accusations from the s.e.c. and taking on the rest of the space. more on that and what's at stake next. plus, going nuclear with a

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welcome back. crypto stocks crumbling after

binance was hit with an section lawsuit. ch kristina partsinevelos is here with the charges >> 13 charges from the s.e.c., not just binance the s.e.c. says it was an illegal u.s. exchange, comingling billions of dollars with user funds, sending them to another trading e ing company, controlled by the founder. binance said that assets were safe and security. and then, quote, because binance is not a u.s. exchange, the s.e.c.'s actions are limited in reach. so, in this filing, the s.e.c. claims that crypto-currencies are actually securities, indeed securities, so, they should be regulated as such, which could lead implications for trading

platforms like robinhood, as well as coinbase coinbase selling over 9% it already received an s.e.c. warning of enforcement action about two months ago and shares fell, as did many in the crypto sphere today, like microsat. which holds a lot of bitcoin on its books and the s.e.c. isn't the only one going after binans in march, the u.s. regulator cftc alleged binance and its founder knowingly offering unregistered crypto derivatives in the u.s. against federal law. the fight continues. >> kristina, thank you kristina partsinevelos gary gensler is going to be on "squawk on the street" tomorrow. we'll be able to ask him about all of this, i'm sure. and it does seem increasingly that the s.e.c. is very behind in terms of regulating this whole industry, which grew up around it, offshores, out of reach, and it did nothing until now, dan >> yeah, i mean -- listen, if

you talk to a lot of these people at the exchanges, they would welcome the regulations. they want to know the rules. that is a huge issue and it is a huge issue in the u.s., particularly because there was a lot of innovation here and it seemed to have left and it's gone back to asia and in other parts of europe. if you look at the market cap of bitcoin, they are equal to the market cap of, let's say, a meta, okay all about $700 billion or so and when you think about that, if you look at those two assets, however you want to describe them in regulatory terms or not, you'd say there's 85 million or so crypto wallets globally there's one meta we know they have $2.5 billion -- 2.5 billion users it seems like a logical place to put money in all of us have done that in the past and it's something that's early on it needs regulation. think about how much time we are spending around a.i., regulation sam altman, the guy that runs

openai, said two weeks ago, please regulate us >> yeah, it makes me think of gbtc, wants to become, you know, an etf and the premium, actually, discount now is enormous, it's near as wide as it's been, 44% today i mean, that's a security that really should be regulated, they're begging for it, right, to be converted, and i don't really understand the argument to not let them be converted, but -- it's not surprising this is destabilizing for the space, right? he was sort of the -- one of the biggest guys left standing he may still be standing after this, if we don't have any jurisdiction or -- but you can see that it's sort of disrupting for a little bit, in what has been a pretty quiet, calm time in bitcoin for the last few months and related. >> recovery from sam bankman-fried when we thought it was crypto winter forever. >> yeah, i think it's been remarkably, you know, the lack of volatility in bitcoin

if anything, the selloff recently is more related to fed policy again, we've said this brian kelly said this back in the day, if you think the fed is done, you buy bitcoin. there are a lot of times we saw bitcoin wrallying around the bak of that. greater regulation is what the industry is calling for. this would be good news, not bad news. there's a lot more "fast money" to come here's what's coming up next. nuclear option lawmakers making moves in the space. and that's sending the metal soaring. so, how are the options pits playing this one the trade you have to see. plus, oil pumping higher after this weekend's opec meeting. so, what can you expect from the energy space and for prices at the pump you're watching "fast money," live from the nasdaq market site in times square. we're back right after this. what if buildings could tell you how they could be more efficient? i'm listening. well, with ibm, you can use software to help you connect and analyze data— from hvacs to elevators to lights. what if we use ai-driven insights to pinpoint inefficiency?

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welcome back to "fast money. cameco hitting a new high as a key nuclear energy heads to the senate the advance act would seek to revamp the u.s.'s nuclear in infrastructure and support the development and deployment of new reactor technology we've seen huge runs in this, because of the advance act yuranium etf, the highest close since march, so, you've been tracking this. >> investing in yuranium has ben difficult and i think you are very early if you think about nuclear policy and our approach in this country, i think back to all those great no nukes concerts of the '70s that produced great music, didn't make a lot of sense otherwise. there was a ban ind called avere white band that called a song "picking up the pieces." it was better music than all of

that picking up the pieces on energy policy is something we need to do in this country this is about national defense interest and some of the elements of this bipartisan bill, i think, are things that are going to be around just making sure that russian and enriched your crane yan is not something that is in the hands of even american companies. that's great for legacy players. and both combine that with the technicals, this is the type of legislation that could really change the game for a lot of players. >> options traders are betting that the run could really have some legs. mike khouw's got the action there. mike >> yeah, cameco saw more than four times the average calls, outpacing puts by six to one one of the areas we saw a lot of work, the event 32 calls, 2 1/2 bucks a contract over 4,100 of those ended up changing hands buyers are betting that the bump could continue through the end of summer. they are looking for a move of

probably nine-plus percent by september. >> mike, thank you for more options action, tune into the full show, that's friday, 5:30 eastern time. next, we're pumping into oil. how should you position in the energy space ker guest next will lay out our ta "fast money" is back right after this

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welcome back to "fast money" the s&p ending in the red. the nasdaq down a tenth of a percent. weakness in the retail center. target posting its lowest close since 2020 dollar tree, dollar gen sinking. and lvmh falling 2%. what do you make of this continued pain >> yeah, for different reasons, obviously. i think, you know, the discre discretionary, the lower spend for discretionary was really troubled walmart did okay, target did not do okay. and some of the other ones, as well so, it just tells you the low end is starting to feel a little bit stretched. on the high end, i think the slower opening of china is part of the problem there and they've

had a big run and maybe north america weakening a little bit, too. we'll see if they bounce back in may or june, post the bank crisis and post the debt ceiling, but ugly day for retail. wti and brent crude hitting their highest levels in more than a month before pulling back before the close for more, let's bring in rbc's helima croft you actually believe they will actually cut production, which has always been the -- oh, they say they're going to cut, but they don't really cut. >> melissa, what's different this time, when we think about opec cuts, you have saudi arabia usually back barrelled they are the ones, when they announce the cut, they deliver the question has always been about some of the other producers, the free riders, they talked about african countries, russia has been a free rider of late what is important about the cut announced yesterday is that it

is a saudi unilateral cut. so, i think that gives us more confidence that saudi arabia will deliver on that million dollar a day cut starting in july the question is, though, now a one-month cut, will they extend it for the remainder of the year, if oil prices fail to rally significantly. >> why do you think oil was not able to hold onto its gains then >> i think there's still really strong concerns about demand i think there are really strong concerns about the broader economy, you know, rate hikes. some people are saying in the market, if saudi arabia has to do an additional million dollars a day of a cut, what does that mean about the demand outlook? the saudis were saying, it's a precautionary move, they want to give more confidence to the market but i think people are waiting to see, you know, how this cut pans out and we are expecting a better back half of the year. we are expecting inventory drops. but right now, there still is significant concern about the demand outlook and the broader economy.

>> helima, you seem to be very confident, and i'm going to listen to you, because you are often right, about the relationship between saudi and russia it seems to me, all the games that at least have been kind of supply-related around opec, opec plus, because they've been together, they've been unified there's been cohesion. you think saudi is not worried about russia, not worried about that relationship? >> i mean, that was a cler message that the saudis delivered. there was some speculation that the saudis would seek to take back market share in asia. we've seen a significant surge of russian barrels into india and china. those barrels can no longer go to europe, because of sanctios and so, people were speculating that saudi might want to get back their market share in that key region but the saudis were really clear. they do not have any desire to resume a market share war, and they are not particularly concerned about russian export

into asia. they said to us, we're still the top supplier into china, we have sent more barrels into europe to back fill those russian losses and we're not particularly concerned at the moment about russian production >> but given the push/pull in terms of the cut that you think is actually going to happen and, you know demand destruction, because of global slowdown, where do you think prices will be >> i mean, we're still optimistic on the back half of the year and we still see a path for brent prices to return to the 90s. certainly, the saudi decision, we think, is important for inventory draws and we'll be watching very closely. we're coming back to vienna in july, whether the saudis extend that cut i mean, certainly, there's still a broader macro concern that can send oil lower, but from a fundamental perspective, we think the saudis have sent the signal that they're willing to come into this market to at least defend the floor

and i think that's an important point, as well that they are really concerned about preventing a major selloff in oil >> helima, great to get your take thank you. >> thank you for having me >> julie, your thoughts? >> you know, one thing that we didn't talk about was, so many of the, you know, capacity outputs that have been talked about in developing countries, particularly, in africa, were these really high targets, and so, they lower them and kind of praise that as, look, we're all on the same page, but it really is kind of unilaterally saudi arabia so, it makes me wonder about the stability long-term of this price action and i wonder about that. >> all right. coming up, high hopes, but low profit the warning from gm on how long it could take for the ev space to charge up more on that next. throughout june, cnbc is celebrating pride month. here is the ceo of grindr. >> we know that there's so much attack and hate happening from lots of places, in that context,

grindr going public in november speaks to a lot of very positive things the extent to which we're celebrated on wall street when it went public and the amount of support we've gotten since being public, i think, is really fantastic. here is a companybuilt by gay people for gay people, where, you know, the ceo is gay, married, and with children grindr's board has nine members in total, six of whom are gay, who are lesbian, who are trans, and to have a board like that, i think, is a really powerful testament.

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from chewy to game stop to bed, bath and beyond, my new cnbc documentary takes an in depth look inside the entrepreneur turned activist investor ryan cohen. "making of the meme king" premiers tomorrow. gm shares ticking lower after their ceo warned that low end electric vehicles will not be profitable until the end of the decade the company announcing plans to invest a beforeillion dollars o trump in michigan. they're talking about $30,000, to $40,000, the battery

technology has to come down in price for the vehicles to become mass market. karen, does it seem like a crazy prediction you have think, thinking about it as a mass market, maybe we need to push off that time frame. >> well, it's unfortunate, because they seem to be pushing off that time frame again and again -- >> yeah. >> whether it's production, whether it's an all-electric vehicle and now profitability. also, interestingly, billion dollars to -- for their ice trucks, internal combustion engine which is a huge money maker. adam jonas said he thought the evolution to ev would be a little slower than he had originally thought that would help gm, but they got to get there anyway. >> yeah. dan was making the point that tim's ford was upgraded today. >> i see your ford >> it's actually your ford, you're the one with the ford ev that you couldn't charge anywhere now they are in with tesla -- that's why that was an important deal for both companies. and as we've seen from tesla

over the years, i'll just say, the profitability in tesla has been the model y and not, you know, not the model 3, so -- you kind of listen to mary barra and you say, this is absolutely what we've seen so far, and back to ford, even though this is my ford, ford is one of the three companies we're talking about that has been the least profitability. and has the most issues in terms of efficiency and has made a lot of mistakes and restructuring and still trying to get there, so -- it's not great news for the folks trying to catch up >> did you catch this article in "the journal?" it was called ev makers talk the nickel pickle. it is difficult to get it out of the ground, to refine it, the cost of doing so, and then talking about basically, and this really speaks to what you're talking about as a mass market vehicle, what are the environmental implications of building mass market fleets of these things if you have to mow down rain forests, create a lot of carbon to make these cars so, i'll take the over on this thing, you know what i mean?

and when you think about the way a.i. and the excitement in the tech community, the manufacturing -- >> consumes a lot of energy. >> that does, too. >> like mining for bitcoins. >> i almost want to take the under on the commercialized iterations of, let's say, full self-driving, before mass adoption of evs. >> can i ask a question? where did being in a pickle come from >> in a pickle >> baseball. >> i don't know, i'm -- >> pickle ball >> nobody knows. nobody has a good answer to this question >> maybe you look like a pickle when you're going back and forth between first and second base. >> why is that a pickle? >> i think pickles are delicious, though. >> love pickles. >> i don't know if you have any thoughts on pickles, julie, or on the automakers? >> well, look, think about tesla. they released their first ev in 2008 and they didn't really have proper profitability until 2019. and they did that with a ton of really nice subsidies and

handouts from the government so, it takes time to do that, particularly if you are building a car at a low price point it's just really difficult and if you think about how the automakers make money, a lot of it is being able to reuse the platforms they had on different cars across, and you can't do that with ev you are building everything from the ground up. it makes sense that it takes a long time. but i understand everyone's impatience it makes sense. coming up, from bearish to bullish, the chart master carter wortd has a couple of names might be turning around. might be turning around. "fast money" is back in two.den. might be turning around. "fast money" is back in two. so i was in the pharmacy and i saw a display of prevagen and i asked the pharmacist about it. i started taking prevagen and i noticed that i had more cognitive clarity. memory is better. it's been about two years now and it's working for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. ♪♪

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welcome back to "fast money. the chart master out with a new note, laying out names that look to be bottoming out and making bearish to buttish reversals let's ask the chart master, carter braxton worth carter >> you bet well, the circumstance of a bearish to bullish reversal, before we look at the charts, of course, is predicated on bearishness. meaning something that's been down and out and really, well, on the ropes that start to then cure, heal, bottom a rounding bottom, some people like it, i like the phrase bearish to bullish reversal. let's look at the setup. the first slide, what do we know look at the peak to trough

declines wayfair, sofi, legalzoom we have the precondition real bearishness look at the second however, it's all reversed over the last two months. s&p, up only 4%. major moves off of the bottom. that is what a rounding bottom looks like let's look at the charts first -- and they'll all look the same, frankly. you have a long and protracted decline and then in each instance, the moving average starts to turn it takes a lot of days of not making new lows and actually starting to move higher for an average price over 150 days to start to turn up that line is now rising. let's look at the next one you'll see the same chart, and that's the point doesn't matter what they do. le legalzoom has nothing to do with wayfair, but it's the same circumstance a long decline that is turning and then, the last one, of course, same circumstance.

sofi and so, these all did well today, nothing to do with the fact that i singled them out i singled out a lot that didn't do well. this is a more interesting circumstance in those that are steep in uncorrected, up and up that everyone loves. a lot of those did not do well today. >> so, carter, we've learned from another technician that the longer the base, the higher in space. do these charts fall into that category, just now you're seeing the reversal happen? because you're pointing out that it was a long period of time where there was neither a new high nor a new low >> that's right. and so, it -- the more time and duration spent working through a problem that once the problem is worked through, the way is clear, so to speak, so one could say fundamentals are bad for legalzoom or bad for wayfair independent of that, that's what louise is referring to when she

says that. it's a lot of time spent basing, bottoming, healing, curing, and now turning up >> carter, thank you carter braxton worth of worth charting julie, do you like any of these? >> no. no >> she's scared. >> yeah. >> yeah, no, you know, look. i'm always really interested in the technical on sent, because you start to think about, at what point do the fundamentals match the technicals i agree that in general with these businesses that have these kind of precipitous declines, they need time to resolve the issues fundamentally i don't think that these businesses have really fully resolved where they need to be, but i do think it's really interesting and worth keeping an eye on them, because they used to all have very strong franchises behind them >> any takers here on the desk for any of them? >> do you notice how he snuck in -- >> i liked that, too >> he's a genius

legalzoom is one a.i. headline from doubling, i'll just say that if there was ever a stock that they could roll out bs press release and get that thing going, that would be it, but -- just saying. no position. no position. >> there already is, so -- there already is -- all of these businesses do have a.i., right like, google maps is a.i., it exists and that's what we keep forgetting >> right nt,in tde sfx: [police sirens] due at target in 5! copy that. make a hard left down the alley. sfx: [tires screeching] sfx: [police sirens wailing] network's got you covered. please confirm requesting back-up. changing route. go. roadblock ahead. ...back up, back up... reverse! reverse! sfx: [police sirens]

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time for the final trade let's go around the horn julie biel >> we know i like health care, we know i like software. certara is a nice business, really durable >> tim >> ccj, picking up the pieces, average white band got to listen to that one. >> karen >> yes so, talked about apple earlier today, i mean, i don't know what's going to happen in the short-term with this new headset, so -- nice run, time to sell some upside calls >> i feel like when the headset is available, dan, you will

still buy it >> no. think about this, put it on your wall >> who buys a $3,500 piece of electronics these days >> you do. you always buy whatever's out. >> xle, i'm a seller. >> thank you for wchg atin "fast. "mad money" starts right now my mission is simple, to make you money i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica other people want to make friends. i'm just trying to help you make some money my job is not just to entertain you, but to educate and teach you. so call me at 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet me @jimcramer. next year at this time, next year i need you to remember something. about a month before thi