tv Mad Money CNBC June 20, 2023 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
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>> yields are going up, i'm telling you. >> that's what you said. >> you need to come back we need to duke this one out >> great to have you open invitation, come on down the block when you feel like it. thank you for watching >> welcome to the heart of american manufacturing might. matt money comes to the motor city now. my mission is simple, to make you money.
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>> my job is to educate, teach and put things into context. wall street can be so dense sometimes. times like now where the market is broken. it doesn't tear up the lives of ford motor. it only has eyes for tesla. the idea that it could be two companies worth investing in, one is fully automated. one is considered hazardous to your portfolio. only one works and that one is
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tesla. you know what, i don't believe it. i don't think that ford and tesla are mutually exclusive. i think there is real value in ford. more value captured by its share price. more value than its agreement to use force charging network to allow stock to jump three points late last month. do not get me wrong, they have incredible growth potential. that is another reason for the 14 point gain.
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i think american ingenuity here is undervalued. undervalued things like this, like this and board, which is being powered tonight by an f1 50 lightning made by the great people at ford motor. maybe that is what is wrong with this market. because tesla is considered a tech company and not a manufacturing company ford is one seething mustang trap the federal reserve. somehow it forgot it is an automaker. maybe i am staring into the abyss of cars and trucks that
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look like they will be sold. the feds made financing too expensive. they may ford stock only seemed cheap. it could lead to higher wages or perhaps even a strike. tesla are aggressively nonunion and mostly automated. today was a microcosm of what ails and helps the market. we have one more turbocharged move in this undisputed leader. own it and don't trade it. when you see it growing up you know the same narrow collection of auto official -- artificial intelligence stocks will go along with it. it is almost as if it is by vote.
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i believe the rumors. why, right now the stock seems really expensive. earnings will come in much higher than expected and the stock will look cheap. i am concerned and i caution you that i don't like this narrative. there are only two leaders. like when you are in the magnificent seven. we know the narrower the market gets the less likely it will have another like higher. i bet they did nothing last week because there is no consensus. maybe next month they will be on the same page, maybe they won't. remember the biggest sticking point, the ever rising price of housing. we have a true shortage of houses. homebuilders have been reluctant to build more homes for fear of being stuck with them. that would jack up
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mortgage rates. today we learned there finally putting up more homes. if they keep that up maybe we can finally put a dent in housing inflation. it is something that would let the feds put a stop to its relentless rate hike's. if we get higher unemployment and cheaper housing maybe the fed can stop tightening. a far landing scenario where there is nothing stopping us from getting an incredibly nasty recession. ford certainly needs the cessation of rates. most cars and trucks are soaring. at what price does he get high enough to price out more buyers? we don't want to find out. we may actions of why is for stock all cut up?
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why does it matter what jay powell says when he is grilled on capitol hill both tomorrow and thursday? that it's us full circle to what you are up against if you own the stock. you may look at this and you're there is demand for all the products they make. the stuff just looks so fabulous. the fact is if the fed goes too far it is this place he gets hurt. that has always been the case. it is something wall street doesn't consider when it comes to tesla. as you watch tonight you can decide. we think of value and the ceo is about to change the culture that the company can make money in any environment. that is what i see happening, bottom line. ford stock to get back to its high where it was in january 2022. if i am wrong i think the
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downside, i am calling it minimal. investing is all about managing risk and reward. at these prices i take ford over tesla any day. believe me i like them both. let's take some questions. >> hello, my name is elizabeth. great to be here. i work here at the michigan sme plant as the environmental engineer. i am really excited and proud of the products that we make. my question is given our current climate how would you invest $1000? >> i am a very conservative person. if you me $1000 it will go in an index fund. i am someone who wants the versa vacation on the first $10,000. i know that it is boring, that i do not want to encourage too much speculation.
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thank you. i wish that i could be more excited, but that is not what the game is about. >> my name is ryan. as a retail investor i like to take my profits out and put them in chips. i like starbucks, google, meta, hasbro. i have been on the fence, ever since i've been buying and losing one of my girlfriend said it might be an evil company. >> it was downgraded today. that was the first good quarter they had. really good people telling me to go along with it. i say it goes higher. question. >> hello, jim. 29 years at ford, hunter alignment. i am new to the market. i haven't did a whole lot of investing. testing the water with cash app to see how it goes. i want to
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know what is the best way to really get started? >> i have to tell you i know it's going to sound like child's play, but i get a paper portfolio and say guys, what stocks do you want? i was trying to get their feet wet so that they knew what it was like to take a loss and have a good high and not cut it off. i suggest you watch some stocks. it's okay. that is how you have to do it until you feel comfortable. thank you. >> hello. my name is king of burrell and i've been with the company for 23 years and currently working at a dose as a government regulations coordinator. do you think it is a good time to be investing in stocks? also, do you believe we are nearing the end of the recession? lastly, where do you see the market a year from now? >> great question.
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a lot of what is happening in the economy is driven by the federal reserve. i think the really good companies are going to transcend. i think you are going to be fine in stocks next year at this time. i was a hold back a little. i've intoned people don't put a lot of money and work. when it comes in we can do some buying, but not all at once. thank you very much. listen, you hurt me, ford over tesla any day. believe me i like them both. tonight we're coming to you straight from motor city. we have a special two-parter with the ceo. you do not want to miss it.
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>> we are bringing you tonight show from the ford assembly modification center more than 4000 employees come to work every day to build ford ranger trucks and bronco suvs. the other day i got a chance to speak with the president and ceo jim farley in nearby dearborn where we got a deeper dive into the nature of the business. take a look.
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>> tell me why this is such an an act place. >> just a few miles here we have the plant, henry's ideal to vertically integrate. we make cars like the f1 50. he built this test track, is the first in our industry. thomas edison when he and i rated the hitter for museum right behind us, this is the home of henry ford. >> is also your home for at least your grandfathers. >> my grandfather was a very humble factory worker who started with the company in the early teens and worked in all of the early facilities. he was a really hard-working guy who worked the line every day. >> you are a hard-working guy and at a time where there is a tremendous amount of turmoil in the industry. lincoln famously said a house
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divided cannot stand. you have to make do with the internal combustion engine business that is fabulous. at the same time you have to transition to electronic vehicles. how hard? >> it is hard. they are actually from customers. that is why we split the company into three places. i saw the company struggle with trying to do everything every day. the focus and accountability of the financial markets to turn our ev businesses into a profitable business, we thought as a leadership team it is not easy. the secret afford is something people talk about, which is our pro-business. we are the dominant player globally in commercial vehicles. >> we should talk about the fact pro is ev in the sense that it even gets the subsidy. >> $7500 irregardless of where
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the batteries are made. we are now the number one ev pro commercial brand in the us. no surprise, 50% of the market. as an investor people will be surprised at the durability of our earnings. an with pro you are going to have a double, but you are doubling production. that is because of broad demand right here at manufacturers pricing. >> yes. people don't realize it, it is the backlog of construction projects and small and medium- size businesses that are really busy. 90% of the commercial business for us, even the software that we sell is from mom-and-pop small and medium-sized businesses. numbers, electricians, emergency, police, those people are buying vehicles with order
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banks we have not seen in a decade. >> comedy people are new to ford? >> on the ev side about 60%. i didn't think that was going to happen. on lightning 60% are also new to a pickup truck. a bit of a surprise to us and we have been able to conquest that much. now the volumes are growing. it is going to be harder to do that. >> let's talk about the trucks and cars. there is a belief that your costs are $7 billion higher. there is a belief that frankly you have not performed. why should we now believe you are very aggressive about almost double what wall street is looking for? >> no problem-big problem. we have to be very clear with investors what we have to change as a company. the first thing we wanted to do is say we have a cost problem. a lot of ceos do not want to
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say that. i want every employee and every investor to know that is our priority. we have a points of margin on the blue side that we have to turn around. most of it is cost, warranty, the key -- vehicle, structural, and we are working on it. we think for it to be durable it is a culture change in the company. >> at the same time you have a new union leader. the union leader is saying things like we are here to come together and ready ourselves for the war against our one and true enemy, multibillion-dollar corporations and employers that refuse to give us our fair share. that is not sound like a culture change to me. >> i have never thought of our employees as the enemy. they are our team. we bet on america. we have more american jobs than anyone in our industry by 20%.
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we make 100% of our pickup trucks in the us. none of our competitors can say that. the only way we are going to transform this country into the sustainable ev industry is going to be working together, nothing else will work. >> there can be a 30% reduction in labor versus combustion engines. it sounds like something when the goshen start one month from now will be a sticking point. >> that is true and technically correct, but the thing that we are doing, especially ford is wrigley integrated. you can take that labor whole on the assembly side and if you make motors and gearboxes and other components everyone is going to be busy. that is technically true on the assembly side. our strategy is to vertically integrate for the cost and the expertise. >> getting rid of the complexity it has really dogged your company for ages.
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>> yes. we have radically changed the complexity on consumer facing choices. we give customers too many choices. choices they don't even want. >> is a true and one point you had almost 1 million choices? >> yes. we cut it down on our new truck is going to be six choices. that may be true to less complexities. people don't understand we have a sequencing center for parts. we have four different colors of seatbelts. the carpeting in the vehicles had three different colors. it is totally unacceptable. it's one of the biggest changes. >> you have this technology officer doug fields, he is talking about you having unimaginably great posture. what does that mean? >> that means we can ship software to the vehicle and
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make the vehicle perform in ways that we don't understand. you lay columns on the highway, the vehicle actually drives itself. the operators get out and drop the cones. they don't need two people to do the job. a vehicle that diagnosed problems before they happen. those are all possible. >> how many people are taking the software package? >> 600,000. it's a huge office center. it's not like the past where we sell a vehicle or maybe we don't in economic times or gas prices go up. the industry is changing. the revenues are more durable. it is small volume, half 1 million subscribers paying for ford software. >> let's talk competition. this weekend bill ford is talking about the chinese coming here. he says we have to be ready. how ready are me for -- we for commoditized products?
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>> it is a good debate. i think first of all people need to understand and investors need to understand the chinese are 60%-70% of all electric vehicles sold on our planet. all the processing for a certain battery tech is done in china. >> and the president said sweden doesn't like that. can you win yourself off? >> we can. there are a lot of options but it is hard work. we are spending $50 billion on the transition and we have to localized processing. canada has their act together. a lot of the countries are more than happy to take towards business. we have signed about 90% or 2 million raw materials that we need, we have signed those deals . most of them are fta countries. even the ct la batteries, those
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will be localized raw materials. i think it is a big transition, but we can do it. >> when we come back we will talk about the competition domestically. we will address certain issues that i know you have watched. a friend of mine did an intervie . will have a lot more with jim farley in a moment including your partnership with tesla. there is plenty of tread left on these tires and kramer is just getting started with jim farley and ford next .
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ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. >> welcome back to our talk with jim farley.
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i follow your stock very closely. the stock had a radical move. it may have been the deal with elon musk. what is this? >> you know, look, i have no problem being opportunistic when it comes to advantaging my customers. ev adoption really does come down to where we going to the mainstream, charging structure when you are on a road trip. we really like the location of the reliability of their network. we have the largest charging network before tesla. putting 12,000 fast chargers on the network with your lightning is going to be even better for customers. our team didn't really hesitat . it is good for customers. frankly, when you go to a charging station it is a social experience. it is a lot like gas stations in the 20s. people go that is a ford. i thought that everyone had to
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purchase a tesla. look at that mach-e, maybe i should look at that car. >> you saw that in the interview. he fixed to as an internal combustion energy company trying to do something ev. >> i think he's respectful, the more because of henry ford than jim farley. the reality is america loves an underdog. we are the market leader for ev trucks and vans. we know those customers that are than anyone. if you want to design a cyber truck for silicon valley people, fine. i know how to design a truck. >> you are telling me it will take hundreds of thousands of your share? >> no. >> is it some sort of mascot? >> it is a lamborghini.
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>> what i mean by that is it is a cool high-end product parked at the front of an hotel. i make trucks for real people to do real work. that is a different kind of truck. >> toyota said listen, we think we have one that can go 900 miles. are you beating them on charging time? on distance for a fill up? >> i think we beat them on knowing the customer better. like in texas when the power goes down, we know these customers so well. >> a tailgate experience. >> so let's have a tailgate with your lightning at the eagles game for the flyers game. i guess what i am saying is we know truck cut them is better than anyone on the planet. >> you spent a couple billion on advertising. if you know these guys so much why don't you advertise zero?
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>> well, i do not think we need to do that. we can beat them on the produc . that is why we come in every day. you know, we have been the best-selling vehicle and truck in the united states for decades, not because we don't earn it, these are really smart customers. >> how many people will transition to ev and how many of them want to play with it where you can make the sound? you gave us that and i absolutely love it. >> that's true. there are a lot of car companies now trying to make their ev sound like an ice vehicle and that is fine. look, i think there is 30% of the people who use the vehicles to commute, you know, simple transportation, they are going to look at tvs. the total cost of ownership is lower for some people. there are a lot of segments,
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that is what we have lewin pro, and a lot of segments will not go ev anytime soon. you pull a fifth wheel in wyoming, you are not finding an electric vehicle. >> in 2020 your cfo set the market is starting to climb. your cfo is saying the margin is coming down. >> don't worry about it. >> a great answer for a shareholder. >> every day we want to make that pro business a double digit business. it is not that today. we have a lot of upside growth. our ev's are losing money. that when not be the case in four years. there is a lot of upside in the profitability, even if the ev margin is a little less. a lot of growth. >> will we have trucks that we want to put into the backyard without wheels and feel like it
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is a terrific machine, is that what you are going to give us? >> i think we are designing the vehicle in such a way that the value to the customer is that they may use it and not have to drive it. these have never been digital products. they are analog. as we are converting to digital and we shook software people are going, oh, this is as cool as being in my house. a lot of cool stuff can happen. what other product category can give you 45 minutes back on your commute? we can do that. >> at the same time you are a racecar driver going back two decades, you are returning to formula 1 racing. doesn't talk about nameplate or iconic culture? >> i think we are not doing it for a romantic version of the past. we like liberty media. we like how they are going formula 1. we want formula 1 drivers to remote our vehicles. we think these are the athletes in our industry. it is an endemic port to our
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industry. the athletes are global icons. for them to say this for does this better than this tesla is good for our business. >> tesla when you go to the factories, i mean if you want to do that here it is questionable whether the union was a listen, we need people in those factories the matter what. versus mexico, the cheapest place on earth now to build cars. why not build their if it really gets out of control? >> we will see, but the reality is we have always bet on america . it costs us more, it is not actually the reason why we have a cost problem. that is all within company control. >> is that because each part of an ice engine has 400 people and huge numbers of parts versus an ev? >> yes. they are simpler vehicles to make. on the other hand, we believe an
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american made city in tennessee or kentucky bill ev pickup trucks and people will pay for that american technology. >> what i worry about is when we go back to the cost you have to take them so radically. you are making projections that frankly a lot of people feel why are you doing this? why are you setting yourself up for failure? >> we have to have a sustainable company. my job as a ceo and our job as a management team is to be fully competitive. the cost targets are top cost delivery. i just have to get to that competitive level. >> the fed is raising rates. you are not making that much money at ford credit. you had a bad quarter. is the country set up for what you need? it looks like the country is slowing down.
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>> look, we have never had the growth. we had a full sharepoint of profitable growth and the same is on track for this year. that is good news. people want our vehicles, they want our broncos, they want these new products from ford. the issue is we see pricing coming down because people are producing more and that is okay. that means our costs have to get line, which they are improving. >> you want to invest in america. that is how your grandfather did it and that is how you want to do it. >> that is why i came to for personally. this is a mission for all of us to restore the competitiveness of our country as you make this transition to digital and zero emission vehicles. we are totally on a mission. >> let's talk about current sales. are you starting with
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incentives? i hear that there are incentives coming back. >> the and -- competitive environment is coming back. the stocks are improving for customers. the incentives from our competitors, we are starting to see more discounting. actually the dealer started to discount more. >> tesla can change prices as they want. look, norway is 50% electric and has been for 10 years. norway is a view into the future of ev vehicles, because they have been so high of ev's for so long. you go there and tesla has dealerships.
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why do they need them? because the reality the cars wear out and they get into accidents. you need a place to ask questions. you need physical repair. if you have an accident with your tesla or with your mach e, we have a completely better experience than they do. >> if you woke up tomorrow and california said we are not going to let ice in, only ev, what do you do? >> the secondhand vehicle market is going to be very exciting. what we do is we have been in business for 120 years. not because we are old, we love innovating. we will bring electric vehicles and the technology to customers that they need. >> we are going to be in one of your vehicles. thank you so much. >> coming up, kramer is fluent in finance.
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welcome back to the ford michigan center in wayne, michigan. last week the fed decided to skip raising interest rates, but the overall message was indicating more rate hike's are likely on the way, perhaps starting at the next meeting in july. this week we have another fat related hurdle, like i mentioned at the top. nine are scheduled for 11
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speaking events over the next four days. that makes me particularly nervous. yes, i and worried cusp for the first time in a long time seems to be a tremendous amount of division. normally i play this game of betting on the fence, right now we have zero clarity, which makes the speeches much more impactful. even the fed does not seem to know what they are going to do next. you look at the chart from their latest economic rejections booklet and you can see where committee members expects to stop hiking. the soul called terminal , four expect one more rate hike and half of the committee is betting on two more. they are all over the map. i do not like the terrain. this week we find out where they're coming from.
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the chicago fed president speaks tomorrow. he is likened to the latest pause to a reconnaissance mission. he sounds like he wants to stop, but needs to see more evidence before he is truly convinced. on the other side of the spectrum you have the president didn't even want to pause last week. she is not a budding member this year, bad if you are very worried about inflation. her nickname should be recession. others like john williams spoke today and speaks again on sunday. he has gotten increasingly hawkish as inflation refuses to go down. and then there is james bullar , here is one of the first to sign the alarm back in 2021, but now he seems less concerned. he acknowledged it has made a lot of progress on the inflation front.
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he added we need to see meaningful declines before he will be willing to stop tightening. i don't know if the numbers were enough. i know this, i am a ford man. he has his hands dirty and he knows all too well that the fed have the power to bring down not just the economy, but of economies around the world. he knows the power. of course the most remarks this week will come from chairman jay powell when he addresses congress on wednesday and thursday. while the open market committee's are all over the map powell still holds up and i think they will follow his lea , which is why you have to pay attention when he goes to capitol hill. he's ready to take a much more hawkish lines on inflation. i am a little worried this time. republicans want him to raise rates, democrats won him to stop. there is no convincing either side. given that there is an election
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next year, that's probably all you need to know. when the fed gets really serious about rolling back inflation it causes big layoffs. it is not good for the party in power. what is ami for your portfolio? probably nothing good. and because there is so much uncertainty you can expect major reactions anytime an official says something. hence why i am calling for caution. i told investing club members the same thing over the weekend. when you consider the housing inflation remains stubbornly high i expect the fed to be fairly merciless. they can only make housing cheaper by throwing tons of people out of work, given how much the markets abroad i think you have to be extra cautious. pick some problems if you haven't already. bottom line, officials make hawkish noises this week which tends to make wall street freak
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out. more importantly they will likely be contradicting each other. this is also very bad news. the market hates a few things. those folks are not only breeding uncertainty, but bottom line many of these officials make hawkish noises which tends to make wall street freak out. more importantly they will likely be contradicting each other, flat out bad news. the market hates a few things more than uncertainty and that is what we are going to get. mad money is back after the break. so who's it gonna be? tom? danny?
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>> it is time for a special lightning round here from mad money, which happens to be powering this sound board. play the sound and then the lightning round is over. are you ready? let's start with susan in wisconsin. >> hey, jim, how you doing? >> i'm doing well, how are you? >> i am doing pretty good. >> susan, it's very risky. you know i don't recommend stocks that are losing money.
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it's too dangerous for me. let's go to toby in tennessee. >> jim! iep they say it is a ponzi scheme. >> it's too dangerous. i want to see more information. i don't like it. steve in virginia. >> i had a question, i bought verizon about 18 months ago but i'm down about 45%. by hold or sell? >> hold it. i don't like the fact that you yield seven. it may be a questionable payout. and that is the conclusion of the lightning round. >> the lightning round is sponsored by td ameritrade. coming up, ready to douse? >> we have the largest charging network already.
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>> it charged up for the next round in the tesla-tran4 heavyweight soccer next. look! what's up my trade dogs? you should be listening to me. you want to be rich like me? you want to trust me on this one. [inaudible] wow! yeah! it's time to take control of your investing education. cut through the noise with best-in-class education resources that match your preferred style of learning. learn your way. not theirs. td ameritrade. where smart investors get smarter℠. ♪♪ at morgan stanley, old school hard work meets bold new thinking. ♪♪ partnering to unlock new ideas, to create new legacies, to transform a company, industry, economy, generation. because grit and vision working in lockstep puts you on the path to your full potential. old school grit. new world ideas. morgan stanley.
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we can make the assembly line stop or even slow as the rangers and broncos rumble off the lot. nobody can tell what the real confidence level is. the passion is not hidden, it's just in the two dimensions. you never know if this guy can really pull off a monumental straddle, at least not until you see it personally. i think he's one of those ceos who is too competitive to not win. winning is not about selling more vehicles with higher prices. winning is the very soul of this man to try out with better and more exciting cars and trucks. in the end i know i'm rooting for farley. i know you should say brooding for the stadium.
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after today, take a look at this exchange. >> i just had this unbelievable mustang experience. i have to ask, what is the difference between you and musk when it comes to what we are doing ? >> i think it's because i love cars. the reason is cars are my life. like it is for bill ford. >> he's got the most fearful machines. >> these are emotional products. we buy cars to express ourselves. that is why they purchase a bronco or a mustang. they will still buy ev's that way. i believe the customers want these kinds of experiences. you have to understand it almost to the psychological level. >> does the dealership help
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you? >> absolutely, they call me all the time and say customers like this or they don't like that. it keeps us fresh and connecte . and all of the different kinds of customers. >> to the younger customers like to do things we didn't? >> yes. there is no way to burn down the tires on a tesla. they can do acceleration great, but we build drifting and line lock because customers love it. >> worldwide? >> worldwide. people in sweden and australia love this american idea of a freedom machine. >> thank you very much. to jim farley and the good men and women at the board motor company we say thank you for showing us your best. thank you for your ingenuity, innovation, and unimaginably
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good products that have been time-tested for 120 years and counting. i am jim cramer. see you tomorrow. last call starts now . i'm brian sullivan in tonight, a fresh warning that wall street may be souring on americans downtowns. can cities still be revived? we'll hear from miami mayor and presidential hopeful a heat wave. is the nation's infrastructure ready? so much for these easing u.s. china tensions. beijing planning a new training facility plus, president biden sit down with top ai experts. can the white house contain ai's
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