foo with more than 92,000 electric vehicle ocelots a year ago they had it according to cox auto mottive. they had new cars to sell. so hond it's time for a deal >> a suv f that's what you want. thanks everybody for watching "power lunch." "closing bell" starts right now. welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner the critical data and earnings and all of it with some questioning the real strength of this rally dan greenhouse, you might have just seen him, he'll weigh in on that and he was getting settled and your scorecard with regulation the stocks are broadly today as interest rates remain elevated and they're mostly lower and nonetheless, the ten-year is a good place to start. it's at 4% and the two-year high since '07.

microsoft, apple, and alphabet and amazon, and that's having a role and mike santoli will talk about that later on in the show. it does bring us to the talk of the tape whether this rally is on borrowed time or not as earnings season can't get away with with the fed intent on raising interest rates a couple of more times at least and with solar alternative here asset management on post 9, welcome. >> thank you, sir. >> so you say, i'm looking at the notes. too many people are dismissing how concentrated the rally is. >> everyone is talking about how concentrated the rally is. >> not only seven are going up which is true. lots of stocks are going up. >> lately. lately. >> sure, there's been a catch-up with the indices, we know that, but my point is not just that box, and i haven't been able to

rant in quite some time. no one is saying it's just the stocks and they're disproportionately going up to the rest of the degree and there's nothing new there, but i find -- is there something wrong there? >> no. i don't think it's simultaneously a problem for the market what i find is the argument being put forth that it is a nonsense argument to say it's not just them coming up and we agree with that. >> it's primarily been the magnificent seven. >> they've done the bulk of the work, we know that and they're up meaningfully more and they're up by 9% or something. everyone else, give or take is up 4% or 5% and there's much more work being done by the larger stocks and i don't like the argument being put forth >> so the argument aside, do you feel better or worse about the market making the turn for the second half because that has been the case for the first half >> unquestionably better

i spent most of the last year bearish and this year, certainly the type action the technicals in the market, and it was not get you have the economic earnings landscape and the earnings and when you have had left there, if not bullish in are you more bullish than you have, say, 18 months, but awe lot thats done last year, when you have 27% it's for of thement grade bonds, and you should be more bearish, and i don't think we are, but at the same time i don't like the idea that price action dictates forward expectations meaning you've had a good run here and we shouldn't dismiss it, but at the same time you were still dealing with much of the same types of things that

we have been worried about for the last 12 months although now you're seeing some of it happen and that's the slowing in the labor market and the slow deterioration of the consumer and general mills told us the other day that they're starting to see the price in elasticity and people are concerned about price increases and you're starting to see some of these things break through and to be intellectually honest and the fact that it's coming later than they thought doesn't dismiss it from happening >> do you think the risk reward is better or worse now for stocks >> right now, i think you should probably be staying long if you've been long, you should stay long, and if you don't think you're long enough i don't speak to what they're doing or not doing >> if you're not speaking to it, who is >> we're a hedge fund and there are all sorts of restrictions on what i can -- the technicals in the market matter. they help guide the turn and hay help guide you now, but the problem that you run into is unlike six months ago and you do

have the sort of under the headline cracks to which everyone is paying close attention. >> do you think there will be a catch-up trade from the things that lagged in the first that led people to suggest that got you all worked up? >> i don't know if i was going to worked up. >> one goes on a rant when they're worked up. it will on mine. the the other thing as if the current inflation will continue at infinite imcan it isn't a thing for these people and i'm not positive that's the case >> how can you be more bullish, then you just said you were leaning bullish? >> for me, ultimately the thing that matters is not eps came in at minus three and it should have been nine or something like that you need see the labor market

crack and you need to be systemically bullish on an additional drop in equity and many that's the misnomer about the whole thing. it doesn't need to crack like the fed thinks it needs to crack or at least thought it needs to crack and the labor market can stay strong enough inflation is coming down faster than people thought. it will not be as sticky as some people think it would agree. >> i understand that, but at sam time, meaning, not think the fed his crack last labor market, fed the is 1% or 2% inflation out of the edgester, or inflation they feel leak to influence.

>> my let be know iffing is that people wills balance on historic been there for have cpi and ppi important and the rest all before you get the next fed meeting where they'll raise at least once more, but who cares what they say? let's see what the data shows for an alleged data-dependent fed and what they do >> why do you say alleged? >> well, i mean, because -- because inflation's coming down. some would suggest a lot faster than even they thought and despite that fact, they still talk like it's -- it's barely budging, and i would agree with that the reason i ask you why you say allege, the pause, agree or disagree is to gather more information and whether we think they're looking at the right things or not or if we re-rated cpi with private sector rents

would be correct >> they'll get that information in a month >> no. but the pause gives them an extra month's worth of data and to repeat something everybody says which is entirely true. one more hike or two more hikes is much less important than when they begin to cut rates on the other side of this that's more more consequential than one more hike or 12 fwrups, so neff get good to seeio upon well welcome bhoo what is your date what you of, and you see cyclical and credit sensitive like housing and auto with a pop to recovery, what i would actually wager is the fed is having a conversation around how do we move the supply of money through the system to regain efficiency both in labor and pricing? and so to bring back stability and labor with structural

deficiency and changes, we're not seeing as many available workers and that's not a problem the fed can necessarily fix. we're seeing some of those lower-level jobs replaced by technology that's where we're seeing the increases to labor supply. those aren't the laborers that we need. we're seeing resilience in sector like hospitality and leisure. none of this speaks to an imminent recession which continues for us the bull case narrative. >> but you say in your notes that this is not the day to put cash to work >> it is not the day to put cash to work and i agree with that. this is where we all have to be held accountable to a degree for the way in which we talk about periods of time because if you were an investor who was in an investment last year, thisi yea, the year of 2023 it's long if you're long say you're long when it comes to the parttech ry and the validity of that and i see the expectation for earnings growth if 2024, so i would say

there's room and pullbacks that are likely inevitable as we continue to get data that reports bad data and we tend to see rates move higher in the next quarter all of of this to say you have to be really mindful of where you're deploying cash today and i wouldn't just say broadly by the s&p 500 today. >> erica klower is with us, too. >> erica, is the risk reward better as we head into the risk reward or not? >> what we focus on is whether there's earnings upside, and there are several different sectors with ith in technology where we have seen meaningful upward revisions in numbers. clearly, there is an ai craze and there's a priority amongst enterprises to deploy generative ai whenever possible and we're seeing the earnings per share estimates and that is positive

with regard to the cost that you mentioned i do think it is the tale of two cities a lot of companies are talking about costs coming down and the labor has remained stubbornly high >> do you think tech is too far ahead of itself or not at this moment given the gains that we've seen in the first half of the year do you think -- is that just phied? you run a technology fund and maybe you're predisposed that i is, but i'd like to hear the answer. >> we are constructive about the opportunities for technology just because we've seen such meaningful upward earnings revision at genesis. obviously people know about nvidia and we're seeing broadcom and this leads us that our holdings will continue to outperform and it's not just generative ai and it's things like electric vehicles and autonomous vehicles and it is much better than what we had

initially anticipate period upon. >> how, dan, do you assess the techtrade here on a day when we were talking about rising rates and can tech withstand that. now you'll have a rebalance of the nasdaq, as well. so that's playing a role today, too, that we'll get into more specifically later on, but what about tech after the gains that we've seen >> listen, i think you're left with one of two different -- one of two arguments the first is some of the big names have had an enormous rally largely based on in some cases reality, and the hope for future investment within the ai smear so to speak at the same time, it appears to me that there are a lot of names in the space that are likely to benefit from a meaningful and sustained regime

change in how companies allocate capital and whether it's cloud and et cetera, et cetera and it shouldn't look at some of those names that are likely to benefit over three to five or seven-year time horizon that we look at other names in the market and it's easy for a lot of people and they do it to dismiss some of the valuations in the space when it reality this tailwind is likely to persist for, i don't know, five to ten years, and so there's a lot to like in the space. >> even when tech has a moment where it pulls back, most of what i read today from different desks is there's a buying opportunity and that any dip will be bought is that how you see it, as well? >> absolutely. the other application that i don't think we speak to enough is businesses that will see more demand with ai generative activity, and so when i think of a simple example, the danahers

of the world and the picks and shovels of the pharmaceutical industry, we saw a lot of volume growth during covid, and i can make a strong argument for applications of ai will lead us directionally to warrantm more consumption. when it comes to ai, i am also a big believer in the applications of vr and ar on a go-forward basis and the ability to aggregate humans in a way that we just don't have the ability to do today and travel continues to be cumbersome and slow. >> so erica, nvidia which i think you guys own, where's the bar as we head into earnings season for these companies especially one like nvidia which is just a hyperbolic stock move? >> how high has the bar gotten have you guys taken any profits at all in your nvidia holding?

>> we are long-term believers in nvidia we've been there since 2016, and we continue to be very strong supporters of nvidia we still think that there's a lot of upside there and not only because of the participation in generative ai, and we do expect near-term upside based on demand from that end market, but the other thing to keep in mind is that they're at the forefront of autonomous drive, as well. they do all of the training for autonomous vehicles around the world in the data center and so there are several different sectors to guide their growth over the next three to five years. if we look out over the long term wer seeing a big difference over what we think they're going to earn and with where the street is, but they're projecting that. >> parabolic, obviously, given the movein stock how would you answer that question as we approach earnings

season is better than fear going to be good enough as someone like mike wilson and morgan stanley has been more negative than most for longer than most suggest that the hour glass is sort of running out of sand on that whole deal and it's not good enough anymore what do you think? >> the truth is when you go back and you do the work, i don't mean this about mike i mean this in general the single biggest macro input to how equities perform during earnings season is not the beat rate and it's how you performed going into earnings season so if you have a particularly strong run-up into earnings season you are more likely to go sideways or down >> that's not good for tech, is it >> i would have to think more about what it portends to any particular sector. >> you have to find the potential issue for a group of stocks that has run up a lot into earnings. >> that would certainly complicate the picture listen, it's a derivation of the confidence argument. if you're particularly excited about the sector and you run up

into it, you're pricing in some of the eventual beat the consensus looks for a 9% earnings drop. i may end up eating my words, but you are much more likely to have a drop of 3% to 4% than 9%. in general the season will go much better and some of that will be priced in. >> so if that's the case, nicole, is that good enough? it's better than feared good enough >> i think no matter what, we're going to see the harvesting of gains in a lot of these mega tech companies as we go through the summer months and we're going to see the conversation that takes place around, what is the risk rewardpremium for staying put when i have the ability in short duration assets on the fixed income side to capture an additional x risk-free rate on top of captured gains and so i just think we're going to see a restructuring of portfolios in the coming months because i do believe it's not going to be good enough and that this run-up into earnings season is going to be to some degree

problematic unless we get forward guidance that we get earnings growth on a go forward basis. the other point is that there is, for us this bull case that the stay long scenario in tandem with the i wouldn't put money into the market now, is that it is going to be choppy, that beneath these top seven names you're probably within the trading range until we have clarity on the direction of the fed. for us we have a hard time believing that we'll push rates into the demand destruction territory. when we get inflation in a 3% target for us, we call their bluff on saying that we'll push it for those next 50 basis points. >> you don't think we have enough clarity at this point to know that we're much closer to the end of the road. so we get another hike, maybe two. that's not enough clarity at this point >> i don't think so if we continue to see parts of the labor market where we see rage

growth and instability, for a lack of a better word, for a consumer that it's able to spend money freely, and regain price stability and the expectation where are earnings likely going to have con costs rising and expect growth at same time so we have to find equilibrium, there has to be balance there and we don't see the broadening of the market until we have more of that stability. we'll leave it there >> nicole, dan green haas. we'll talk to you soon let's get to the twitter question of the day. what's more important? interest rates in earnings or inflation data and head to@cnbc.com closing bell and we are just getting started, though up next, the risk/reward debate continues and goldman sachs

elizabeth burton is breaking down the playbook that could be your best bets for your portfolio. that's coming up next. we are live from the new york stock exchange you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc.

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all right. welcome back 35 minutes left in the trading day. let's get a check on top stocks to watch kristina partsinevelos is here kristina >> the ev maker plans to offer $340 million in convertible debt with the potential to double that amount. you see shares are up 13.5% right now. this is all in an attempt to use

these proceedses from that raising that debt for an additional battery pack line and the market likes it and it's driving the stock higher ralph lauren, shares are hitting new 52-week highs as the fashion brand enters into a five-year revolving facility the company also announcing it will be returning to new york's fashion week this is just after a four-year hiatus the retailer, keep in mind, has cut back in the presence on lower-end department stores all in an attempt to be considered a high-end brand again scott? >> kristina, thank you we'll talk to you soon stocks are in the green across the board and the dow rebounding from last week's slide and my next guest says he's being cautious when it comes to equities and playing the risk reward is not that great le let's bring in elizabeth burton

of goldman sachs >> you don't want to change your portfolio, but the risk reward, particularly with u.s. stocks looks a little bit fat and flat from here to the end of the year. >> what leads you believe that is it in part as this we've had such a worst half. >> it's mostly earnings driven >> it will be interesting to see what we have to come out of the second half of the year, but we only see a slight increases from here through the rest of the year we see margin compression happening and it will be interesting to see what we see on the consumer front, from ai, from credit and over the week. >> this debate right now is to what degree do earnings have to be good enough for investors to say, okay, that's fine they were better than feared, and there's commentary on the street which i already referenced in earlier conversations that that's not good enough anymore. that got us here now it matters that they really need to be would you subscribe to that? what's your thought there?

>> i think what's important about in that question and is there are alternatives now so, yes, earnings need to be material if you can allocate cash and earn a pretty healthy risk-free return and you have the bond market to contend with and you have alternatives coming back if you googled hedge funds to 2021 in your filter. you see comments like hedge funds are dead there are more opportunities in the market to be long and short in different asset classes >> so we talked about competition for equities for some time now. you still think that exists. i guess, what's the level of conversation that you're hearing from big allocators of capital and hedge funds and other institutions when it comes to that >> do they still see competition elsewhere that provides enough reward with less risk? >> competition in terms of the equity market? >> competition in terms of asset classes. why bother taking the bigger risk in equities when i can take

less risk with cash equivalents, money markets and things like that >> i think for pension funds specifically, in order to achieve the 6 1/2 or 7 1/2 long-term returns and how can they do that in a way that creates risk it's difficult to lower the data and the portfolio erck specially when you're in a growth-sensitive environment and long and short trading and hedge fund trading and looking in being kittys in other parts of the market looking out of the u.s. where you get less exposure to some of these well performing, but large big tech names >> would you still be overweight bonns bonds relative to stocks or no >> right now we believe you should be underweight bonds or high yield, i should say and neutral on bonds in general. underweight u.s. equities, but there's opportunities to look abroad and look elsewhere. neutral in general in equities

you want to be tactical, but where you can be overweight would be commodities and cash. i like to think of the overweight in cash which is difficult for the larger investors and that's being able to catch a rebound, when someone's free and open, you can get another shot on goal particularly when that is paying you to do so right now >> commodities is an interesting play tell me why you like that. if there are serious questions about china's recovery. >> right >> if there are maybe not serious question, but enough questions about the strength of our own economy. >> sure. why are commodities a good play? >> not all commodities are created equal to your point. so china specifically, if you think that there is a possibility that this re-opening will be slow to continue, and then we should see an upside case for xhod yous and you can also play with cash and it might not be a good place to choos and

auto ooze as you want to look out and you want to look at things that are uncorrelated like the commodity space. >> which commodity space are you able to get that granular with what you like best and what you don't >> you can look at price appreciation and industrial. aluminum or copper might be some place to look. >> well, see, that's the thing copper comes to mind when i talk about, you know, strength of not only our own economy, but china specifically >> that's true so there are a lot of pros and cons in the market and you have to weigh the risks just like you would any other investment so you're right, there are risks to copper particularly on some of the valuations and news coming >> good to have you here welcome to our program. >> elizabeth burton of goldman sachs joining us up next, the capital crackdown and it looks like the fed could beic shag up the capital requirements on the banks and we have the details and what it means for the sector if you're invested in it the new chipotle, initiating

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>> developing story. shares of carl icahn's iep surging today after the billionaire investor reached new terms with lenders regarding his personal margin loans. the loans were one of the key issues hindenburg research cited in its short report on iep a couple of months ago saying the terms could be a risk pack factor for iep investors months of negotiations ended this past weekend. the new agreement includes higher collateral and disconnects the loans from iep's share price potentially easing concerns about asset sales iep's stock has fallen roughly 30% since the hindenburg's short report including that today. mr. icahn not commenting when i

reached him earlier today. the new push to tighten rules and raise capital requirements on some banks. leslie picker is here with those details. les? >> hi, scott the recent capital standard stems from a vice chair for supervision that michael barr gave earlier today it applies to banks with 100 billion or more on assets and that's the lower threshold than the current 700 billion. it was equivalent to the largest banks to hold 2% of capital. the scope is appropriate because, quote, the risk of contagion implies that we need a greater degree of resilience for these firms than we previously thought, a nod going back to the march and april events when we had turmoil in the mid-sized banking sector notably, barr is proposing that firms with $100 billion or more account for unrealized losses and gains for sales you are

skooits securities, and this was with silicon valley bank because they realized losses with the portfolio without having the capital to back it up which the fed says triggers that run on the bank the proposed rules would also standardize much of the risk functions rather than having firms rely on their own internal estimates. barr said the comment period and there will be a slow implementation, as well. so it could be years before we see these new rules actually in place, scott >> and as i look at the stocks today, should we be looking more towards those more regional banks? the mid-sized ones that you referenced rather than the larger ones for any kind of stock reaction because when i look at the larger ones they're certainly not negative on this news. yeah, you're spot on, scott. the window between $100 billion in assets and 250 billion in assets as to weather more

stringent capital rules would apply to that sub sector of banks. so because this speech indicated that anything above 100 billion would be applicable for some of these tighter capital requirements, there is still a lot of uncertainty with regard to his comments, but that made it clear that that 100 billion or more would indeed be required to be subject to some of these regulations, as well >> gotcha. leslie, thank you. leslie picker following the money. up next, we're tracking the biggest movers as we head to th close and kristina partsinevelos. >> soaring bitcoin and a warning sign for agricultural stocks and i'll explain all of that right after this break

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20 to go before the closing bell kristina partsinevelos with the stock she's watching >> shares of agricultural science firm is down 10% after the company slashed its guidance because of, quote, an abrupt and unprecedented drop in volume in customers. smc sells ingredients for insecticide and another plant held products for dealers or sell it to farmers for that revenue warning right now is dragging down fertilizer names like mosaic, and corteva

which is down almost 5.5% right now. switching gears completely $100,000, that's the level standard charter saw bitcoin hit in two years suggesting the crypto winter is over. the cryptocurrency which is hovering could jump to $50,000 by the end of this year and it could encourage bitcoin minors to hoard supplies and that is why you are seeing riot up 8% and marathon up almost 8%. kristina, thank you very much. last chance to weigh in on our twitter question we ask what is more important for the rally right now? interest rates, earnings or inflation data ask the cnbc closing bell on twitter. the results after the break.

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the results now of our twitter question we asked what's more important to the rally right now interest rates, earnings or inflation data inflation data the winner. 40% of the vote. earnings, though second place, 35 up next, the draftkings stock is soaring today and how to play the rest of the gaming space rest ahead and that and much mo when we take you inside the market zone. e bell ringing ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( sfx: people celebrating )

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♪ ♪ we are now in the closing bell market zone senior marks commentator mike santoli here to break down the trading day and phil lebeau shares the state of the used car mark kristina partsinevelos, with the takeaways on cava and draftkings >> rates were higher almost across the board and now they're lower almost across the board and we have the ten-year sitting right at 4%. >> yes >> steady. i would argue that the entire market is in a stealth rally it's a very strong day it is up three-quarters of a percent and industrials, discretionary outperforming the

small caps to 4.4% the reason the s&p and the nasdaq 100 are stuck is because of a mechanical shift that's coming to the nasdaq 100 and it was announced late friday where the largest six stocks in the nasdaq 100 are going to have their ratings reduced in the index because of a rule that prevents over concentration. so it was announced late friday and basically any stock that's more than 4.5% weighted in the nasdaq 100 and meta is right on the cusp of it is basically going to have some of the weight taken out in the rest of the nasdaq 100 and it is up a percent and a half today and the point is not that that's the only thing that matters today, but in a day when there's not a whole lot else pushing prices around, this is enough, and also enough of a reminder of just how heavily this market and aggregate has bet on this group. they're more than 25% of the s&p and they were about 48% of the nasdaq 100 and that triggers this rule that has to do a

special so-called rebalancing later this month. >> it gives you an idea of the run that they've had and even though the stocks themselves are really not down all that much. >> nobody knows xa accountly how much is coming out >> the qqq is a big fund, $200 billion and it's not big at all relative to the size of the market caps and it shows you it's skimming off the top of the biggest most successful stock this year. >>. >> all right, phil inflation is critical and many are hanging on these used car numbers that came out that are pretty good. >> yeah. it's encouraging if you're expecting inflation to come down and this comes down to you from automotive they track this every single month and what they found in june is a decline compared to may of 4.2% and look at that decline year over year 10.3% this june compared to june of last year the retail inventory did tick down a little to the 45-day supply and it's a tight market

as you talk a look at the auto dealer stocks, we're showing you what they've done this year, keep in mind that the demand for used vehicles is actually ticking up a little bit. so there's a combination of things going on here, scott. you have a greater demand happening for used vehicles and you also have greater supply of new vehicles so people who were in the market to buy a car whether it's new or used, they've got more options out there, and that's reflected in what we're seeing with the used prices in june coming down more than 4% >> because you couldn't get used vehicles before, right and if you -- you could, they were super expensive >> right and you had no choice, but to pay up the number of people i know who said i don't want to buy a car at this price, but i've got to buy a car so i'm going to do it, that has changed there are still people who are in the mark that feel they have to buy a car for a variety of reason, but they've got more choices now. phil lebeau to kristina

partsinevelos, wall street i don't know, you can call it a love affair with cava. as they initiate you do have a couple of buys and a few overweights and a couple of neutrals based on valuation. >> i'll go through it all and a lot of puns. the stock has doubled since june and analysts agree there's more room to grow for this name they say cava will become the next chipotle. the mediterranean chain sees the potential for 1,000 restaurants in the chain, and they could hit 7,000 innorth america. all of the notes did highlight the significant potential for expansion. there is some caution, though on this high-flying stock and it acknowledges, and it's a leader in mediterranean fast casual which means the price target is 50 bucks and city says it may take a few years for free cash flow given the weaker consumer

spending environment and stand on the sidelines with a neutral rating so a few are letting the stock marinate for now, stock. >> i figured you were going to go there >> i stole that for j.p. morgan, so i won't take credit for that line >> that's all right. mike santoli >> yeah. specialty retail and then restaurants on top of it are where you can have these young, fast-growing concepts to get people pretty excited. so the big picture play is fast casual gaining share over other types of dining, mediterranean theme taking share over other stuff and you have lots of runway i don't think it's egregiously expensive. in the 2021 class of ipos, you would look at this and say six times next year's estimated sales and you were trading everything at ten times and where chipotle got at the peak

and it's got conceptual move to run. >> all right kristina, thank you for that contessa brewer, what's been going on with draftkings apparently, we haven't noticed it enough. >> you know what it's up 8% on the day and it's hit levels it hasn't seen since december 2021, and it has a lot of bullish options activity and a handful of analysts raised their price target on draftkings consensus estimates for second-quarter estimates are moving higher and deutsche bank analyst carlos santorelli, draftkings is grabbing more market share and has achieved 31% of the national sports betting and number two behind fanduel and grabbing it at a faster pace and then in i-gaming it's over10 bet mg,m as the market share leader and there you see the shares for the day i should mention, year to date up more than 150%. this is a stock that has a lot

of people chattering on twitter and i guess threads and reddit, wherever they're chatting online >> wherever they're chatting or wherever they're gaming. >> what's the road look like rate now to profitability? can you bring us up-to-date? i know i probably ask you that a lot and maybe for good reason. >> maybe the picture changes because draftkings said by fourth quarter and jefferies analyst is out with a note estimating that they could be at the break even point for ebitda when they announced. we may see it this quarter because they're not spending so much anymore on acquiring customers and where they've gone into new states, they're grabbing market share at faster than some of their competitors and so some of those costs have come down owls also, they have a lot of innovative products, scott, like he's parlays are very profitable

for the sports books, you've got 34 mgm, wynn, las vegas sands and everyone is on fire in the gaming space >> mike? >> all of that coming along with the fact that there is a little bit of a squeeze happening in some of the areas of the market with the growthier stocks. you're seeing the r complex, and the big shareholder of draftkings and you see c3ai. my point is there's this general current that we're willing to believe again and we have been betting against the crowded choice and you think that's another dynamic going on as i mentioned before someone coming out of the very large caps for mechanical reasons and it's finding his way elsewhere. >> meta is bucking the trend today. >> yeah. >> it is higher by 1% and maybe

a threads lift and also learning that cathie wood is a new buyer of meta. >> i do think that it probably isser mo of a thread halo effect and not so much that it will be material financially any time soon, but it was a small flex of the breadth of the other platforms of instagram and you have some people out there saying that 8 billion in revenue, that would be close to twice what twitter ever did. so just a general sense out there that in addition to all of the other reasons that people decided to love meta this year including the fact that it's got price momentum and the margins look good and it's not as expensive as they regain the high and you do have the growth kecker that honestly, three weeks ago, nobody anticipated putting into their numbers. >> are we going to be back to this conversation, and i loved your take on it of long duration assets and the rick of higher interest rates

i don't think that's the main fulcrum of this decision right now, and where really yields are is is it going to choke off the real economy. >> not this sort of mathematical relationship and obviously it matters, ultimately. right now the big nasdaq stocks are trading off of how defensible their franchises are and how predictable the probability and who knows they can take that down rod to me, it really going to restraen the economy where earnings weren't enough to handle. >>er mo of a duration, more of an effect on higher valuation when comes to tech and growth. that's the academic argument and it doesn't necessarily play out that much in the short term, but absolutely, and i think if it were all just about we know what this company's going to earn over the next 30 years, yeah

rates are what matters and to me that's not the way we trade day to day >> looks like we'll go out close to the highs and the dow 200 the s&p trying to get nine points and a fifth of a percent. that does it for us. i'll see you tomorrow and let's send it into o.t. with morgan and jon. >> all right gains for the major averages and the russell 2000 outperforming and the action is just getting started. welcome to closing bell overtime i'm morgan brennan with jon fortt. we will talk to sean o'brien is his union closer to a deadline with ups to come up with a deal and avoid a stake that would have wide-ranging impact on the economy? >> plus, are china stocks on the verge of a rebound? we'll talk to th