times earnings >> did you discuss -- >> great minds think alike, scott. >> josh? >> ao smith. >> we have the dow up better than 200 points right now, and we will see how things develop over the next couple of hours. t i'll see you "the exchange" is now. ♪ ♪ thank you, scott hi, everyone i'm kelly evans. here is what's ahead the recession is just around the corner we've heard that line for a long time, but is it finally time to move on? our economist says yes he brings four key indicators that make him bullish. and amazon's prime event is here, and the second best mega capper former so far this year and the credit card competition. it may lower your ability to collect and cash in credit card

reward rewards. brian kelly is here with what you need to know but first, more with the microsoft activision deal, shares 10u7% steve covak is with me now >> the fcc lost their case they alleged that microsoft was just going to go ahead and close this deal without regulatory approval or anything they moved ahead, the judge did not bite their case. in a very quick five-day hearing. the judge made a decision, no jury in this, just a federal judge in san francisco basically, saying the ftc couldn't make its case that by buying activision they would --

that's the thrust of this. >> we're continuing to layer in more news. let's brick in david favor with an explanation activision shares are at sessions high. >> they may be at $95 a share, because i think it looks increasingly likely that microsoft is going to be able to close this transaction as soon as monday. and prior to the expiration of the merger agreement between the two parties, which is july 18th, kelly. it's stunning. i termed this deal mostly dead sometime back when the uk's cma had issued an objection to the transaction. but it is very much alive right now. let me give you something i've been able to pick up around the cma process. you were speaking to steve about this big loss for the ftc in court in san francisco and that will allow microsoft to move ahead with closing the transaction.

the cma has remained a key stumbling block issuing its objection to the transaction that dsaid, we got interesting commentary from microsoft and the cma a couple of hours ago, indicating the two sides were in conversations essentially to try to restructure the transaction to that it would meet the objections, and therefore go to close. and what i have learned is that microsoft has offered what i'm told is discrete, small divestiture that will satisfy the cma, or they believe it will we can all speculate about a licensing deal for the cloud and other things that may occur, but a small and discrete divestiture is what i'm hearing, put thing on the path to actually be closed at $95 a share in cash,

the price agreed to when this deal was announced in january of 2022 despite what were numerous hurdles put in its way we'll see. that stock will main tain a ver close range to that $95 cash deal price again, we could bein line here for a close as soon as -- let's call it monday prior to the expiration of the agreement between the two parties. >> david, i'm curious how this is reverberating throughout the deals community. if the ftc has been successful, it would chill deal making even more than what we have seen already who don't want to have to put up with the cost and the duration of that fight now that microsoft has failed in an expedited five-day trial, what does that mean for people who might look and say, not only is this moving forward, but maybe now we somewhere to scramble to make sure we have a place within the world of tech,

gaming, or other industries. >> i said this many times. the case in san francisco is probably more important. and you're right, there has been a chilg effect from the ftc and the doj being more aggressive than preds so sor secessorprede. so this loss, coupled with a loss about a month ago, horizon, amgen, many people have questions. so you're right, kelly, this conceivably will send a more positive message to those considering doing a transaction. that said, if you still have a very aggressive doj and ftc, with the possibility of being brought to court, despite the

fact that they may not have a good chance to win, it's something to consider. there is no doubt that the ftc's loss in court today is a significant blow to that agency's approach to mergers and its hope to put, i think, many deals that it sees as anti-competitive aside >> david, thank you very much. activision shares still $3 below price. you can argue that they didn't have a strong case, even the uk blocking it was on this hypothetical story about cloud gaming in the future how much does this start this arms race? microsoft is one of the biggest tech companies on the planet and acquires activision, what does that mean for the gaming landscape? >> activision, let's assume everything goes forward by next week you have take two interactive.

they bought sega you have electronic arts, we know there's rumors that comcast has bought it. and talk about media you talk about warner brothers discovery or paramount, the idea that there could be some more mma activity or netflix, as well netflix is in gaming, as well. so what we're seeing from the ftc and doj in general is, they have this theory what anti-competitive is, but most of the time they go to court, it just doesn't hold up so they might have a theory about the law, but the law is the law and they can't enforce it on this theory. >> you have a unique perspective from a user or a player. if the cases to defend the consumer of this content from anty competitive behavior down

the line, is that a genuine change >> yes and no. for example, i put on the nerd cap and pocket protector microsoft is going to launch this really cool game this fall. that comes out of acquisition of a company called zenemax so yes, it's a bummer, i don't have an xbox, i can't play that. so there might be activision gains, maybe activision is cooking up something but this is all about call of duty and whether or not -- >> where they are concerned -- if i want to watch a movie, i have to find what platform it's on i'm not angry. that's just where it lives what does the consumer have a right to play call of duty -- >> forget about any platform what the ftc failed to prove,

microsoft has this financial insentive to take call of duty off of those platforms and make it exclusive to theirs they had harvard economists coming in to make that point and the judge was not buying it. >> it would be in their own interest to offer this game on other platforms. >> it would be financially stupid and irresponsible to take call of duty off, because they would lose money call of duty is successful because it is every with and allows you to play on anything that's why it's so successful and why it makes $1 billion within its first week. >> steve, thanks a lot don't miss the interview with bobby kotick, live tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. eastern on "closing bell." speaking of microsoft, it's

become so lopsided in the nasdaq 100, the index is doing a special rebound on july 24th how lopsided have the mega caps become the toxic names now account for more than 50% of the entire nasdaq 100 after the rebound, that will fall just to 39% and the nasdaq 100 is being overly driven by these names as yuck see there, it's outperforming. nick wells crunched the numbers. let's bring in jeff killberg who says this is causing some anxiety with tech investors. and bob is here, as well, watching the situation bob, some of the names, we're talking honeywell, pepsi, comcast. >> yeah. this highlights how important index funds have become, because so much money is attached to them that's why we're watching this now. so in this case, this is the

nasdaq 100, the triple q would be the etf it's the fifth largest etf in the united states with over $200 billion in assets. the other big ones are the s&p 500, that's the code qqq this nasdaq 100 is being rebalanced because the top holdings have grown too large. microsoft and apple, they're the two largest weightings, that will be reduced by a little more than 1%. according to wells fargo that will be about one day average volume of stock. so i would not look for big price drops in these tech names. this highlights the growing role of passive investing more investors are getting exp exposure most of this causes negligible

changes. but these names are so large, they are triggering rule changes by the index providers in this case, it's nasdaq. by the way, kelly, nasdaq isn't the only index provider with size limits. the s&p sector index, they also have size limits the s&p tech index imposes limitations at about 23% of the indecision apiece, they're also starting t ining to bump agains on those indexes, as well. the consumer discretionary etf, that's also becoming a very big weight in consumer discretionary. >> aside from the aspect people always try to do here, what are the bigger picture implications? >> i think bob is right. there are further reaching implications it's due to the fact, the nasdaq

100, if you look at the futures, and there's two lenses to look through, the institutional side and the retail side. what i think is fascinating is that if you look at the concentration, we talk about this, let's talk about the top five we know amazon, google, microsoft, nvidia, as well as apple those top five stocks right now are 47%. so to bob's point, they're going to drop back down to 38.5% the far-reaching implication is that it's also representing the s&p 500. so if that stock price moves down, those same five stocks represent 22.5% of the s&p 500 so there's all this interconnection, kelly that's why i'm a little bit apprehensive

i looked at the etf that bob brought up if you wanted to protect that position, because you don't want to sell or walk out of the room right now, because it seems like the party is still going on in tech, and i am optimistic. but if you were to sell that at the call, going out to july 28, that's the day amazon and apple report earnings, that's the way to approach it i'm not going to walk away from tech, but this is very surprising to see, because this only happened twice, 1998 and 2011 >> bob, some people are asking why go in and actively rebalance it we all assume the index represents these market caps and they'll go through phases of overconcentration and periods of correction why not let nature run its coarse here? >> you can make that argument. the s&p 500 doesn't particularly have that, the sector weightings do have that there's an argument to be made

on the other side, that letting certain individual stocks get too big does create concentration risks. now, you can argue where to introduce it in this case, 48% concentration, over 4.5% of the index it gets obscure, so you are picking an arbitrary number here you could make those arguments, but i don't think it's unrea unreasonable, given the issues happening in the past for them to impose some kind of restrictions on the size of the companies. >> gentlemen, thank you -- go ahead, jeff. >> real quickly. this is preearnings season, so you'll see a big tech week at the end of july. so buckle up your chin strap >> all right, jeff, bob, we appreciate your time today turning now to the broader economy where it feels like forever we have been talking about the looming recession.

in december, our survey showed 61% of economists expected a recession. last month, 54% still think one is probable. and the average start time is now back to november but the next guest says it's time for these recessionistas to give it up neil is here good to have you aside from the fact that we have been waiting for a while, what makes you think this cycle still has legs >> well, i look at the near-term economic outlook, i see a labor market holding up at a time when headline inflation is light to moderate that's going to put real incomes higher people will end up spending that money. obviously, the housing market has been a big surprise this year remember, kelly, this time last year, the housing market was a significant source of concern. we heard housing is the business cycle. the most important leading indicator. well, housing is now turning up.

we see new home sales rise seven of the last eight months, and we know what mortgage rates are whether those risks can continue to buy perspective buyers down to 5.5% remains to be seen at the end of the day, a new home represents signed contracts. so a contract is signed, a home is built, people move in, and then they fill it with stuff so that's why it's an important leading indicator. fiscal policies is much more of a tail wind for the economy than it was for this time last year so i think the time to be really concerned on the economy was this time last year, and a lot of those head winds that we were concerned about, whether it was food and energy prices, very, very aggressive fed, they're all going the other way right now. >> i love the fact that you are highlighting housing and fiscal in particular, because you almost can't argue with that it's true, and housing is not behaving it definitely is turning now but more broadly, we are seeing

consumer cracks when you look at the delinquency rates. red book retail. we're starting to approach the kinds of softness that are typically recession ary. >> well, let's talk about the fundamentals for the consumer. pointing to the redbook index, which it was really high immediately after the pandemic and now it's basically flat. we also know that we're seeing record travel. i mean, if you look at the tsa as an example -- >> what's going on with disney i totally take your point, but disney and other little areas of the travel market, you think there's anything going on there or just i woulddiosincratic?

>> that was, i think 0.8% over the month, but to me, it's just undeny iable -- that's going to- what will people do with that real income? they'll spend it, particularly at a time -- consumer confidence isn't strong, but it's getting better, not worse. >> so final question, because you're a very good sparring partner. just address one of the things i do see making the rounds a lot we have seen an uptick in delinquency rates. we're going back to levels that are traditionally more associated with periods of consumer weakness. what does that tell you? most people arguing for consumer strength, why are we starting to see people falling behind in

that way >> i think you're seeing normalization in some areas of credit i wouldn't call it an economy wide problem, i would just say that there are some areas where you have issues among certain cohorts of consumers when you talk about macro, you know, at the end of the day, auto sales are rising. home sales are rising. and that wouldn't be happening in a negative macro backdrop those are some of the most sensitive areas of the economy people wouldn't make those purchases if they were worried you can't buy a house and say not going to do it after you sign the contract. so that tells you how people feel about it. >> very well said. thanks for joining us. appreciate your time today >> thank you, kelly. let's get to shares of amazon they have soared more than 50% this year. with prime day kicking off, my next guest says they can climb higher

joining me is james. it's been a good year for amazon so far, james. >> thankfully. last year was a roller coaster, but now we are at that turning point. we are at the point where growth is bottoming the expectations around online sales growth are quite muted and then add on double digit growth via prime day, i think you can get to a better than expected number for 3-q. so we're not at the turning point, we are incredibly close >> this i think is a big deal for jassy. why is that? >> i mean, you know, he inherited a very tough situation. you know, after covid, the

company had uploaded the structure, they had overhired, overcorrected for covid in anticipation of more waves and they have to right size the business and the fulfillment network. and you know, he had some degree of religion around the cost structure. so it's been a tough situation, and the stock has not performed, as well. it's well under where it was when he took the helm at amazon when bezos left. so i think he needs that redemption in order to say that he successfully has taken it to the next level >> what does he -- i'm sure jassy, when he is getting pitched, i doubt they're starting with the retail business

they're probably talking cloud or ai. maybe i'm wrnong. what do you think needs to happen with the retail business and how does prime day fit into that >> ultimately, it's about how do i get products to customers as fast as possible that's the whole point of the implementation around the fulfillment center by going regional, it allows them -- empowered by ai, to get the right product there as fast as possible. with the interview with jassy last week, one of the greatest tidbits we got is the fact that it is cheaper to get products to customers, and at the same time, customers are willing to pay more for faster delivery and the margin expectations are as muted as can be we think that a little bit of

le levers, you can have meaningful growth that could be 10%, 20% higher looking at next year. >> when you talk about this major position in may of 2022, we're up about 20% since then, are you ajusting those expectations at all? >> not yet the only caveat that we throw out is the recessionary risks. how hard or how soft the landing is when all is said and done, because all the interest rate hikes have a lagging effect. so i think our five-year horizon has stayed the same. what that kay lens looks like, i till have uncertainly. >> i wouldn't stcore you poorly if it's a recession. >> it's a two-time sale.

you have awc -- at over $100 billion in revenue, a ten times sales on the awc, only $1 trillion in just awc value so there's a lot of opportunity here to expand and the operating come up. so i'm not that worried. >> again, i keep thinking about if they ever think to do something more sftrategic to unlock value james, thank you very much for today. still ahead, north carolina is this year's top state for business once again. but what about the flock state we'll take down the bottom five. take a look at the dow, up 199 points we're ba in cka moment don't go anywhere. beautiful in the true iconic notion of what america is all about. ( ♪♪ )

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order. weathertech.com. sfx: bubblewrap bubble popped sound. welcome back this morning, we revealed that north carolina is american's top place for business but if there are top states, there must also be bottom states and scott is back to tell us how this year's bottom state has a plan to get out of the cellar once and for all, scott. >> yeah, we rank all 50 states to figure out which states are one, two, three, four, five. here are the bottom states number 46 is west virginia with america's least educated workforce. number 4, hawaii is the most expensive state. state 48 is mississippi, dead last for business friendliness state 49 is louisiana, finishing here the bottom. at the bottom, it's alaska

but alaska does think they have a way to turn things around. in bottom state alaska, oil is their economic lifeblood but they breed carbon. exhale here in the form of emissions, absorb here in the state's vast forests it's how the governor wants to transform the economy once and for all. >> just like oil and gas, just like our timber, this is a commodity that can be monetized. >> under a new law, alaska will sell credits to polluters who can offset by paying and preserve alaska's 100 million acres of forest. state and national resources commissioner john boyle says it's a way to free alaska from the ups and downs of oil >> it provides that measure of stability to the state to not be tied to one particular commodity price. >> reporter: next, a proposal to

capture carbon from the atmosphere and store it underground, taking advantage of alaska's size and maybe helping the planet they're all in on this in alaska this program passed the state legislature, only two votes against it in the house. but there are a lot of critics, people who call it green washing or worse they wonder if alaska will use that money to preserve its forest, and if not, what is the money going for other than revenue? but the commissioner says they could be seeing revny from this in the next 12 to 18 months, maybe in time for next year's top state study. >> those their fossil fuel industry make them a bad state for business or is that a good business to be in? >> the thing, is it's volatile, that's the issue they are trying to deal with as much as 85% to 90% of their state revenue comes from oil

production so if oil pruoduction is down, which it has been for the last several years, then they're down revenue. the price of oil goes down, they're in trouble, as well. so what their open, is and they've been talking about this forever, trying to diversify the state economy. now, they have this willow project that will come online, and there is a need for oil. but what the state and nal resources commissioner said, all these companies trying to get to net zero, they will have to do things like buy these offset credits. that's somewhat they're staking the future on. >> maybe they can have a toe hold in the future of that industry scott, thanks for bringing this report to us today let's get to pippa now for the cnbc news update >> the governor of vermont says the state surpassed the amount

of rain seen during strorm irene in 2011. joe biden has approved a declaration of disaster. the swift water rescue teams have made more than 100 rescues. the concern returns to self-rivers across vermont, which are expected to crest today. 11 nations will train ukrainian pilots to fly f-16 jets next month in ukraine it's still not clear which countries will supply the fighter jets and u.s. coast guard officials say the cargo ship fire in new jersey that broke out and killed two newark firefighters is finally out. the fire started six days ago on july 5th officials say now that it's out, they will try to figure out what started the fire and will try to salvage the ship that could take up to two

months >> pippa, thank you. coming up, is value back in the driver seat? we highlight three stocks. they're all up more than 10%, so what is the next move? we'll asking our guest after the break. no big deal? go on... well, what if you partner with ibm and red hat, use a hybrid cloud solution to connect data across clouds, then analyze all that data with watson. okay, but this needs to meet our... security standards? yup. compliance standards? mm-hmm. so they get the insights they need... yup. in real time... check. ...to make quick decisions? check. aaaand check. that's the solution ibm and a global bank created. what will you create? ibm. let's create. ♪ opportunity is using data to create a competitive advantage. ♪ it's raising capital to help companies change the world. ♪ opportunity is making the dream of home ownership

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welcome back we all know that growth has gone gang busters this year with those tech stocks, ai names in particular but that started to change in the past month my next guest says a reversal is coming, especially if tomorrow's cpi data is better than expected joining me now is charlie. just set the theme for us. what has been going on with value stocks lately? >> they've been hurt this year because everybody is afraid of a fed inducement recession, and growth stock also probably outperform bond prices get bid off, as people look for places to hide, that's good for growth stocks, bad for value. so right now, the market value stock to bid on sale, growth stocks have been bid up, and

that's brought some opportunities for us value managers thank you for using my maverick man, kelly but right now, everybody is afraid of this market at 19 times earnings a lot of value stocks are trading at less than ten times earnings >> when you see the nasdaq 100 rebalancing, we were talking about this top of the hour, what does that tell you, just your sense from watching the markets? >> that a lot of these tech stocks have gotten wildly overpriced, and the people who run these indexes know it, and they are trying to have indexes that are not just dependent on the magnificent seven, on the ai dependent names. they are aware of this problem, and they are trying to rebalance. but there's just no getting around this. growth, technology, ai stocks have dominated not just the nasdaq but the s&p >> it's crazy, because the valuations aren't that -- some

of them -- microsoft and the rest of them, we're not talking about sky high, but things that are just a little bit higher than the consumer goods sector >> well, to you, 25, 26 times pe looks reasonable to me, that's high but look, i do think that -- that's a fair statement. some of these companies are not the original dot coms. these will real companies. but we are talking about names that used to be reasonably priced there was a short time when apple and meta was playing in low single digits, now they're in the 20s so these stocks are expensive. >> i want to talk about the eyeball in las vegas i was thinking about you, i didn't realize we were that close to opening before that, some of your names are energy picks

we were just doing about the top states for business and how volatile energy climates are hurting the businesses what would you do with the energy stocks in someone's portfolio right now? >> they are very cheap a name i always talk about is apache, which got down to four times earnings the energy stocks are trading as if oil is going to $50 that is possible but not going to happen any time soon. the best estimate where oil will be next year is where it is today. today we're at 74. people are predicting lower prices but the demand for oil is going to be higher the next couple of years. sure, 20 years from now we will rely more on electricity and less on oil. but most of the people who do good research in this area think that demand increases from india and china and recovering u.s. economy are going to be in more demand for oil next year than this year. and it's been less capital

ex-penkpenditure searching for . all that will combine for prices above $70 a barrel and apache will make a lot of money >> $74 is where we are now i always get confused, there's the entertainment and this and that how significant is the opening of this at a time when we know that service has been outperforming the goods sector of the economy but we wonder if tourism will remain as strong as it has been. >> yeah. so there are three companies, you're not the only one that gets them squared. madison square garden entertainment, madison square garden sports, and then the sphere at one point they were all together, and for corporate governance reasons that i'm not sure i or the market like, they divided them into three different companies. people have hated the sphere, because it hadn't opened yet and

nobody knew what the business was going to look like they finally lit up the sphere it is spectacular looking. and it's going to be a spectacular advertising vehicle. it looks sometimes bigger than the moon this is going to be a wonderful entertainment space. and i see britney spears and others have proven that there is a lot of demand for concerts this is going to be a spectacular -- sorry, keep using that word -- space for live entertainment. the stock has moved a lot. it's almost doubled from its low. so of the three today, i happen to personally be a little more excited about madison square garden entertainment, which is trading at less than $1.5 billion. >> and up 5% year-to-date. last question, do you have any strong sort of takes on consumer

spending, entertainment spending, or was this a unique case where you thought there was value? >> a little bit. the consumer is in good shape. 70% of the u.s. economy is the economy, wages still catching up, pent up demand you see it in overlooked airlines or concerts i do think that consumer discretionary, and the stocks have been kind of cheap, so a combination of good value and a belief that the consumer is in food chain >> charlie, good to check in with you coming up, money has been pouring into minerals. and it's given a boost to stocks like this one, up more than 150 points we'll reveal the name and whether they're expected to last, after the break.

welcome back investments in minerals,

critical to the clean energy transition, are growing at a record pace. according to a new report, companies are posting pretty gains. is lithium a mineral pippa has more details >> in a sign of the times, this is the ieae's overarching report and the market is seeing growth fueled by electric vehicles and solar panels investment in developing critical minerals rose 30% last year, building on 2021's 20% jump in spending the markets doubled in the last five years, hitting $320 billion in 2022. now, the opportunity is not lost once a small segment of the market, critical minerals are moving to center stage, and many new projects have been announced. if all goes according to plan, the industry should be able to

meet demand, expected to grow 3.5% by the end of the decade. but that's a big if, since there are challenges like delays and cost overruns. >> okay. i googled it lithium has three forms, a mineral concentrate, a mineral compound and refined metal who knew we talked about the concentration here, but this is going to be one of many different minerals that will be important. >> lithium gets the attention because it's in the lithium ion batteries. you can't swap out litlithium, that's why it's the poster child of the energy transition we have seen in addition to

securing supply, we need to diversify supply, because now china has geranium, used in solar panels >> these are also used in clean energy >> primarily for chips, but germanium is used in solar panels so there's a lot of these minerals what happens when you swap one thing out, you sacrifice another portion of the product so while there are some substitutes, lithium specifically, you can't substitute at this point >> i want a periodic table of minerals i'm going to near that here on the wall thank you very much. still ahead, the senators behind the credit card competition act say they're out to help consumers, but there is a warning that could mean bye-bye to perks like airline miles and could turn out to be one of the drawbacks for everyday americans that's next. owerful enough to connect your data wherever it is,

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welcome back to "the exchange." it's been about a year since the

senators introduced the credit card competition act it was introduced with more bipartisan support last month. on its face the bill aims to improve service and lower costs to merchants, which would benefit consumers. but it was shown that actually raised costs for small businesses, padded the pockets of large retailers like walmart and amazon and lost perks like free checking accounts for consumers. it could up the charges of credit cards joining me with more is brian kelly. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> what's the big concern here >> senator durbin is the grim reaper of the credit card rewards. when he passed that a decade ago, not only did charges go up. now senator durbin wants to do it for all credit cards, and by

mandating in this act that every credit card would have to have two networks like a premium one and a no frills and the retailer would get to decide which one to run the transaction. the knowing that you can use your credit card and not pay for fraud, it could wipe away points it could destroy points and miles that we know it. >> we all get mad when they have to swpay 3% to swipe a card, bu they'll take everything else away. >> today you pay 3% in@some retailers. but you're at least getting perks, purchase protection with this act they could run that transaction they could still charge you 3% to add to their bottom line, and you wouldn't get the points or

you'd maybe -- today you can get triple points on dining and so many average americans use these points that's how people can travel these days it's so expensive. it's insane to think our government is working to take away points in day when travel is so expensive and take away choice from the consumer and give it in the hands of the retailer simply put, it's going to take the value that the consumer gets and put it in the bottom line of the retailer so aaron kline with brookings said, oh, this is just rich people complaining that their rich people perks are being taken away and the service being made fairer for everybody. >> yeah. it's absolutely nothing to do with rich people anyone with access to credit cards will be absolutely hurt by this sure, the big box retailers, how amazing is this for them they're going to take away the

perks from consumers and add it to their bottom line i want consumers to stand up you need to let your senators know this is not going to benefit consumers. we knew the last durban amendment really hurt creditors across the board. >> i'm curious if there's the option today for these merchants to run through a lower cost card network, why don't more of them do it >> well, they can't. right now if i have a credit card with visa issued by chase, that merchant has to run it, and that's the way it should be. i'm paying a huge amount of money -- >> norts if my credit card has visa on it, it has to be run through visa >> absolutely. i should choose where my purchase gets run. why should they get to run it through a program that doesn't have fraud protection. >> so let's say i'm in a restaurant i've noticed -- i've never paid

more in cash because this is somehow feeding through the ecosystem the way it never has before i'm at a restaurant. i hand them my visa card for a $100 visa bill they say, do you want it run through the 3% thing with protections or 1.5% without, am i actually making an active choice where one is offering me protection and another isn't it seems like i would want a say in it. >> it's going to give the power to the retailer is how i know the bill is written. of course, things are changing as we speak. the point is to give the retailers the choice, not the consumer that's why i have a huge issue with this bill. >> what should people do now other than if they're scared, to speak up should everybody cash in their points are they literally in danger of going away >> points are not going to go away

the rate at which you earn are going to be dramatically reduc ed everyone needs to call their senator. by the way they're attaching it to legislation that has nothing to do with credit cards, which is, of course, the way washington often sneaks this through. there's a website, handsoffmy h w reward.com millions are used to getting points, and those protections could possibly all go away. >> one more question is the whole points ecosystem the way of hiding the true cost of the networks like making us think -- it's like goats a rebate no, your true cost was 105 is this whole thing an elaborate way to making consumer feel better about the actual cost of these programs >> what i can say this in the united states we have the most points and purchase

protection if your card gets stolen or spoofed, you don't have to pay for it that's usually not the case. in other countries the banks are not offering those perks these perks will go away so the retailers can make more money. >> brian, it's fascinating i had no idea this much was at stake. that does it fors. u the "power lunch" is next with jon fortt. don't go anywhere.

welcome to "power lunch. alongside kelly evans, i'm jon fortt. coming up, a deal locked the judge shoots down the fcc's blocking of the merger what that means for microsoft. plus, 3m has been one of the biggest drags on the dow so far this year. the company facing litigation and potentially huge costs