e love is coming from your heart. the new york stock exchange is the symbol of what america is all about. the potential of capitalism, the potential of the american dream. the only way you can move a society forward is a true expression of freedom. ( ♪♪ ) ( sfx: stock exchange bell ringing ) ♪ good afternoon, everybody. welcome to "power lunch. alongside kelly etches, i'm taths crop extra credit, consumer credit card debt and rates are still on the rise and inflated prices remaining high could this be a catalyst for problems in the economy? we'll explore that the end of an era, zoom. the company that as much has any facilitated the work-from-home trend is calling workers back to the office

yes, you heard it right. that debate is ahead but first let's get a check on the markets, and it's kind of the wild west out there. lots of movers the s&p seeing lots of good, also a lot of bad and downright ugly movements the good, for instance, viatris beat on earnings, the bad, tyson foods missing on top and bottom lines citing lower demand and look at sage therapeutics slashing the price target this comes after the news force the rejection for its major depressive disorder treatment and the dow is actually moving towards session highs right now i should say, up 422 points, ty. >> wall street can't seem to agree on whether or not we're heading into a recession firms saying strong or maybe reversing their calls from earlier in the year. reversing them generally towards the more dovish scenario inflation data out later this week, a key focus for many as we

look for any sips about the health of the economy, but perhaps we should be focused on one thing in particular. that would be debt the st. louis fed revealing credit card debt has hit a record $1 trillion, and bank rate out with a new survey showing cardholders are carrying more debt than ever before joining us to talk about the rising ted are ted rossman, senior analyst with bankrate.com and peter boockvar of blakely financial, also a cnbc contributor. gentlemen, welcome ted, let me start with you and ask you to tell us what you found in your surveys of consumer debt. it seems to me that there are more people carrying more debt at higher rates, but is there any indication that they are having trouble carrying this higher debt, that they are more delinquent on the debt that they are suffering because of it? >> well, thank goodness for the strong job market. that's really what's happening to keep people on track, because delinquencies have gone up a little bit but not really to worrisome levels they were artificially low

during the pandemic because of stimulus back to 2019 levels, which were historically low same thing with the debt-to-income ratio because wages have gone up, most people are coming up there's some trouble brewing in the sub prime. >> higher debt and more people with higher rate date but because incomes have gone up and maybe because of some of the monies that were received through the pandemic, people are in a better position to hand tele. >> for the most part, yes. now, there is still a big bite to this debt the average credit card charges 20.5%. >> that's up. >> more people are paying 5.25 points more than they were a year and a half ago. there's a cumulative effect to that credit has started tightening a bit, more at the lower end of the credit and income spectrum for most people credit is still flowing pretty freely but it bears watch, especially if the job market were to take a turn for the worse. i think that's the big indicator. >> peter, do you agree

>> those were all good points, and one thing also missing, it's not just affecting debt that's currently on consumer books. it's also affecting future behavior because if someone is going to debate whether they should buy that big-ticket item, well, they need to calculate a much higher interest rate on that, so there also could be future purchases that are deferred with this high level of interest rates. >> a lot of conversation, ted, about the return or the required repayment of student loans. >> mm-hmm. >> how big a factor is that going to be? >> i think it's one of the all news is local kind of things i don't think it will do much to didn't the overall economy because only about one in six households have student debt, but for those that do, that's another $400 or $500 a month that they have to come up with that they haven't been used to paying, so does that lead directly or indirectly more credit card debt credit card debt is the ultimate all news is local thing.

that's a big difference. >> when you see the numbers about rising debt, i go back to this -- this fact that i think it's 80% of american households or some high percentage of american households could not swing an unexpected $400 or $500 cost in any way. the water heater goes. they have to repair an air conditioner. the car requires a repair that's unexpected how fragile are americans' finances when you look at numbers like that and you add on the propensity, particularly among lower income people, maybe that rely on credit cards and high rate cards, it's not a pretty picture? >> well, you make an important point because we can't just talk about the consumer as one broad brush. there are major distinctions here, and net lower income

consumers are dealing with the cumulative impact of inflation they are dealing with, as we talked about, the very high interest rates in order to borrow, and they are not benefiting from the rise in markets whereas the higher-end consumer has a pool of savings that they can get 5% plus in a t-bill they have benefited from the rise in stock prices, and they have other cushions or less impacted by the rise in inflation. there are different segmentations of the consumer, and all is not well with that lower end. there's one consistent theme that i heard when retailers reported last quarter earnings which i expect to hear in the coming weeks it's that consumers are prioritizing spending on non-discretionary items, and even walmart said more people are shopping at our stores make more than $100,000 mcdonald's the other week when they reported earnings, i think last week, said more people are shopping in our restaurants that are making more than $100,000, so the consumer overall --

>> how do they know that, peter? how do they know that? they don't ask me what's your income when i go into these places >> that's a great question i think they do have some surveys. >> a survey? >> that they then sort of extrapolate from, so, yeah when you go and you pay cash or pay your credit card they are not going to immediately know, but i think there are some surveys done that can give them an idea of the type of demogify of their customer. you can dance when the music is playing. when the music stops and that being the labor market, all of this could look very, very differently obviously. >> i mean, historically the charge-off rate on credit cards has more or less matched the unemployment rate, and we've been in this period of artificially low unemployment, artificially low delinquencies and charge-offs. unfortunately, there's only one way to go from here which is up. the question is how much does it

go up? so far this normalization has been fairly muted, and much more restrained compared to the last couple of recessions. >> that's a great point. >> peter, what's your reaction when you hear quite a few of the big wall street banks sort of calling off their recession prediction >> i think it's way too premature. i think that the adjustment to this higher rate environment is something that is not clocked in months, not even quarters. it's going to take years, assuming the fed keeps interest rates higher for longer because not everybody's debt resets all at once. >> mm-hmm. >> it takes time, and i think we have a lot of low-cost debt that has major repricing ahead of us, and that will sort of chip away at economic activity as time progresses and we further transition to a higher rate environment in terms of the debt that we have as an economy.

>> i see ted nodding i'm with you on that, peter. particularly in commercial real estate where debt may roll over next year and who knows about the ability to refinance at today's rates compared with rates from five years ago. peter boockvar, thanks very much and ted rossman, good to see you. >> thanks. another important snapshot into the consumer comes in the auto space where demand is high but so are prices. phil lebeau is here with more. phil >> reporter: kelly, the prices for used vehicles are high, but they are also coming down. this is the latest report from cox automotive which has the used vehicle index what they found in july is prices came down 1.2%, down 11.2% compared to the same time last year. this is the fourth straight month that prices have fallen on the used vehicle lot keep in mind there is improved supply, so when you're looking at use odd vehicles in the u.s., greater supply from the new vehicle manufacturers means greater supply when it comes to the used vehicle auction, and

demand is still strong in terms of volume, retail volume, it was up 6% in june, so as you take a look at some of the larger auto dalership stocks, car max as well as lithia and sonic over the last six months, the overall pace of used vehicle sales in this country for the whole year, it's expected to come in at 35.7 million vehicles, not all retail, not all dealership, a lot of them are second-party, you and me selling vehicles to each other, but that's the pace of sales for used vehicles that's not had a record high, but it's industrial strong demand out there >> so if there's still -- you know, phil, i think we're watching autos in particular because other than housing it's one of those places you might first see the consumer cracks show up and with everyone squatting in place at home we won't see that turn like we did in '07 you wonder if auto are somehow a place where more pain could show up. >> reporter: i'm not sure we will, kelly. i do think there's a possibility that as you see higher interest

rates for auto loans there's a possibility that people will say, look, it's too rich for my blood. i can't pay this however, we've seen this now for a number of months, and we've seen people say, okay i can't go new. i'll go into the used market, and now because the monthly payments are generally the same, it's a little bit cheaper for used versus new, the advantage that the new auto manufacturers have is they can sweeten the pot with incentives, and that has a lot of people saying look, if i can get "x" amount cash back or a lower interest rate than i could get on a used vehicle, i'll move into the new market. >> all right phil, thank you very much. phil lebeau reporting fours. >> reporter: you bet. coming up, is the era of free money over? for years companies have been battling for consumers' pockets offering freebies, sign-up bonuses, perks, more that's no longer the case. this is being scaled back. plus, move over tech industrials could be an underappreciated market star with the xlietf trading at 20

times forward earnings more on those moves when "power lunch" returns icy hot. ice works fast. ♪♪ heat makes it last. feel the power of contrast therapy. ♪♪ so you can rise from pain. icy hot.

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welcome back we talked about consumers tightening their purse strings in some areas, but many companies are now doing the same gone are the days of freebies on your birthday, sign-up promos or airport perks. companies are trying to cut costs and pear back the rewards they started dishing out during the covid slowdown here to discuss our cnbc.com melissa repko and our reporter leslie joseph. leslie, kick this off for us what's going on? >> if we think back three years when the pandemic started, a lot of companies were desperate for customers and they extended the perks. airlines, for example, hold on to your status we know you're not flying. all of that is gone. a lot of people, if you've been to an airport recently or traveling again, so what airlines are doing is they are really cracking down, you have to spend more, fly more to get that status. >> this is something that was a little bit of a pandemic quirk, let's say, and understandably, but now that people are traveling again they have grown

accustomed, to yes, i'm such and such a status and maybe they have lost that what is that experience like for people in the airlines must be a little concerned about it? >> there's a lot of shock. you delta ceo told us late last year everybody is special. no one is special. so when they call that group one and it used to be that there were only a few people and now you see dozens of people. >> everyone is in group one. >> everybody is special. >> everyone is special. >> don't they want to make the consumer special as a company, isn't their whole goal to convince us we are special even if we're not >> but we're not. >> melissa >> it comes at a price of the all the perks come with money attached, and we saw that during the pandemic with the supply chain becoming a household term that free shipping was never free and free returns were never free and some companies are saying we're going to charge you a restocking fee or return fee when you ship back that item because you bought three different sizes of the same shirt. >> i think that's the coming

thing. i think more and more retailers and companies will charge little fees i went to a place this morning, and they said if you want to use your credit card it's going to be $1 fee. >> every time now. >> it remind me of when atms first came out, you used the atm, it didn't matter whether you used your card our a bank card. >> it was free. >> and it was 50 cents and then a $1 and now it's $3.50. they will have restocking fees, return fees, shipping fees, so on and so forth. >> we're already seeing that play out a lot of companies have added that just this past week macy's was the latest to say we're going to charming you a return fee if you ship back that i'm, but the trade you can make is instead sign up for our loyalty program which is free and then you're paying in terms of your personal data, establishing a connection with the company and that's when we get all the e-mails saying shop with us and buy more goods. >> some people abuse the return policies where they will buy six of an item and then, say, i like

this shade, not that shade or i like -- >> in their defense, i might say, the company sold us this model. they said free shipping. why don't you order six and try zapo's.com sometimes i feel like it's a bait and switch and when the companies have capital, maybe offer 10 or 15 years they need to show profit and the competitors are gone and then they come back to us like we're the problem. >> e-commerce was fun and games when oil was $50 a barrel and you're thinking about transportation costs and every delivery van clogging up your street. >> trow. >> those were different days and now they are under pressure to cut costs. >> let me ask you this about airlines have they gone back to the very high service fees that they charged if you changed a reservation or you rebooked? have they reimposed those $250 per ticket fees? >> for the most part they have

not unless you're flying on basic economy, you know, the lowest ticket that you can get those went away in the pandemic. >> they went away in the pandemic. >> and they have not come back there. would be an uproar if those fees came back. >> they were ridiculous charges to rebook. >> it was very high. what airlines are doing now they want the heist paying customers, and delta have said they are -- unit, too, higher growth in those premium cabin and premium economy and business class, paid leisure, not even talking about corporate travelers. that's growing faster than the revenue in the back of the plane. they want to hold on to those travelers. >> to mention as well, we talked about how credit card point could be under threat if they push through the credit card bill changes according to critics. the biden administration, melissa, has been trying to crack down on some of the fees we see on travel and ticketing websites this is a no-brainer for the consumer who does feel like they are under attack from this. >> i mean, one of the commonalities and leslie referred to it, you know, i mentioned people can pay with their personal data, but there's

been a huge push across the board to go after the most valuable customers delta, for example, is throwing out free wi-fi but they are requiring you to sign up for their loyalty program so it's really going after the big spenders, the more frequent users. gone are the days of retailers and airliners chasing consumers that were the fly-by-night type of people, and so the thought is these companies may tack on those fees but maybe your tolerance is higher because you have some kind of loyalty to them you have some real buy-in, and that might make it more palatable at a time when people fet annoyed. >> or you give up and say, fine, take my email address. >> i give in. >> that's how they win melissa, leslie, thank you both. really appreciate it today. coming up, using ai to sort recycling. today's clean start looks at one company using machine learning to improve and simplify the waste management process "power lunch" will be right ba ck ♪♪ it's time to bring balance to business travel.

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welcome back, everybody. it's not just tech outperforming. industrials also beating out overall market seema mody is tracking that performance. seema? >> reporter: tracking it all over the past month industrials

have performed better than the s&p tech sector, and that is despite the latest ism data which shows the u.s. manufacturing sector is still in contraction territory. 88% of industrial companies have reported, and profits are coming in about 12% higher than initial estimates, and that's thanks to strong beats from general electric, eaton, textron, among others jeffries analysts say what's giving them relief is inventory draw dauns the market may interm let that as a sign of weakening demand but it's pointed out that ceos have been very clear that this is not the case. rather, it's a sign of supply chains normalizing so that excess inventory is no longer needed china though, that remains a question mark for the industrial sector one ceo on the earnings callics pekts chip's construction volumes to be down 10% that's in line with prior

guidance and consistent with a tepid economy and weak overall activity she says. others like h vac manufacturer lennox said that china exposure has come down as it looks to diversity its supplies, and that certainly is a trend that we're seeing across the sector as well kelly and ty >> forgive me for not knowing. how much business does cummins do in china, and what do they sell into that market, engines for heavy equipment or what? in that's exactly right. about a 0% exposure for cummins and it's big trucks, engines and a number of different parts, but i think what a lot of these companies are finding that as much as they rely on it for -- as a manufacturing base and also a customer end market, because of the tepid overall economy and the outlook not improving so much, they have really taken steps over the last 12 months to diversify their supply base from vietnam, india to mexico which is becoming a bigger hub

soma, thanks very much seema mody reporting for us, thank you >> now to the increasingly hot button topic of oil that's closing for the day. up or down, pippa stevens? >> it is down, retreating a little bit but that, of course, follows six straight weeks of gains in more than a week and with wti holding above the $12 level, right now at 21.77, it was said that prices are now starting to catch up with that falling rate count on friday the latest data showed the recount is currently at the same level going back to march of 2022 so at the lowest in a year and a half. hedge funds have also been a major buyer in the past few weeks, but after the big run-up a bit of a pullback is warranted. one area i wanted to take a look at a is the oih, oil field services name and that's because it hit the highest level in four years on friday. a little bit under-the-radar play here and that's because we are seeing an uptick in international as well as off shore production and cowan says there really has been a reset

within the industry that used to invest heavily up front in order to anticipate a potential boom of course, there were also a lot of busts over the longer term so it ultimately led to a lot of capital destruction. this time around they are keeping the spending down. they are not flooding the flat, with equipment and things like that so they are getting more attention. >> and an interesting point was made this morning about how the higher rates basically have caused a lot of the inventory de-stocking. it's too expensive to hold thing in storage so it does make us more vulnerable to future shortages and price spikes. >> absolutely, and we have to fill the spr and the de-stocking at some point, that's going to end and then producers will be buying up again or refiners will be buying up again, and then we have the demand in increasing picture. >> where is gasoline likely to go >> 3.13 on the national average, yeah >> wow. >> so we are --

>> how do you keep this stuff in your head? >> i asked you this out-of-left field question, 3.83, let me check, that's right. >> i thought you might ask because everyone has been checking their gas prices. >> yes, indeedy. >> we are at peak of the summer driving season right now it could trend a little bit higher in the short term and once we reach the fall demand does tend to fall a little bit also got the electric standards in terms of blending which means cheaper prices but we'll see honestly it's hard to predict the direction of gasoline. >> pippa, thanks. let go to contessa brewer for the cnbc news up date. >> a federal judge has tossed out a defamation counterclaim by donald trump today against writer e. jean carroll the former president filed the suit a day after carroll appeared on cnn and claimed he raped her. trump claimed that was defamation because a day earlier a judge had awarded carroll $5 million finding he defamed and sexually abused her but did not rape her the judge who dismissed the case wrote that trump's argument had

no merit. one person was lurt overnight when a sherwin williams paint plant went up in flames outside dallas. firefighters knocked down the two-alarm fire within a few hours. people who lived nearby could hear explosions and see fireballs more than a mile away from the scene it's not clear yet how that fire started. the houston astros made a victory lap at the white house to celebrate their world series victory last year. they defeated the philadelphia phillies for the title and the president compared himself to 14-year-old astros manager dusty baker. during the president's remarks he said he knows what it's like to be counted out for being past his prime. >> dusty baker is up there in years. man, he's had a great record taken i think five teams in the playoffs nobody else has ever done that contessa, thank you. >> you're welcome. ahead on "power lunch," zoom changing its tune. the virtual meeting service calling workers back to the office, and the irony lost on no

one. more and more companies are laying on the pressure even the white house is calling for more in-person work. weildiusitexwh wl scs nt en "power lunch" returns. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't

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welcome back is the work from home fight finally lost zoom, it's the company that became the face of work from home the stock climbed 100% during the 2020 shutdown and shift to remote work, but now even they are telling employees to come back to the office we've seen plenty of companies already making that push, even the white house now encouraging agencies to get more people to work in person, but are these efforts working? according to data from a report compiled by stanford, the university of chicago and others, about 59% of all workers are now fully back in office, but 29% are hybrid and 12% are fully work from home joining us to discuss is the economics professor at stanford who worked to compile the study and we have a career strategic with the balke group nick, the numbers were lower for the work from home at 12%, but it seems like a trend that's still persisting, or is it >> well, that's a good question. so we've been tracking this month by month going back to the

beginning of the pandemic. you also have data from swipe cards of how many people are going in and out of the office what you see it's been flat through 2023, so there was a huge return. we kind of flattened out yes, zoom is calling folks back into the office two days a week, but you see other companies getting rid of office space and downsizing, so overall we're about flat for the last half of year. >> julie, do you think this trend is here to stay, or is this the end of work from home >> no, it's absolutely hear to stay what we're hearing from the employer and employee side is they are willing to come to terms on a hybrid schedule or a hybrid model because fully remote is not necessarily working for most organizations, but fully back in the office, it's hard to attract, retain and engage people with threat to meet your business goals. >> when you say it's here to stay, what is here to stay is a hybrid version of work from home whether it's one day a week at

home, two, three, whatever, right, jewel >> yeah. it could certainly vary because some jobs and some industries lend themselves very well to a hybrid model, and others just don't, and then leaders have different views, but what we're seeing is gen-z is trying to get behind the wheel on this, and they are going to be 30% of the workforce by 2030, and so they are very much saying we're going to need some compromise here, folks, and with an unemployment rate still hovering around 3.5%, they still do have leverage. >> how much of this, nick, when we're talking about these dynamics depends on literally the strength of the labor market you know, it's interesting to me that companies are making this push even while employment is relatively strong. certainly if the labor market weakens they would seem to get the upper hand back, and they seem to want to demand that people are back in the office as much as possible. >> i should say julie is spot on i totally agree. i've spoukd to 1,000-plus

managers hybrid is very much the future so you don't want one extreme of folks working from home five days a woke, but employees don't want to come in every day. i think what's really interesting about the story is i was actually having launch with zoom from the headquarters about a year ago, and even back then they were basically operating on hybrid what for me is interesting is how they decided to formalize and put this out in the media when it kind of broke, kind of broke this morning that's the really intriguing thing, but the strategy seems very clear. as julie said, all companies get professional managers typically in most common numbers, three days a week in the office, typically monday and friday work from home. >> nick, i realize this isn't the school year, but it looks -- looks like you're at home. how much more often are you working from home, and the saum question for you, julie? are you working from home than you would have say three years ago? >> that's a great question yes, i am at home.

you know, it's exactly teaching seminars, big meetings, much better in person i go in for that going in later today individual meetings, talking with students and working with co-workers on data, great on zoom teams, whatever like the u.s. workforce i'm basically hybrid. >> julie, how about you? >> for me i have -- what i have found works is i have space or membership in a co-working space so it's full of people who are doing exactly what we're talking about. there's a lot of things we can do from home, but there's certainly from a professionalism standpoint we're meeting with customers or clients, you want a more professional space, and you don't want to be moving your dog off the couch for your customers to visit you so from a perceptual standpoint i love having a place to go but i'm very selective about when i go when do i need to be there and when will it serve my purpose to be there, and if it doesn't i'm at home?

>> sweatpants, no sweatpants. >> or no pants. >> all these decisions that you have to make now, julie. decisions, decisions, decisions. >> that's right. >> super point, by the way this should have been the perfect environment for the success of we work. >> yeah. >> we should be sitting here every day what an amazing idea, all of these hybrid workers, and that stock dug its own grave nick, when we spin this forward a couple of years, do you think fridays, to quote, i forget who it was who made the quip, fridays are gone forever and mondays are touch and go is that the workplace looks in the next five or ten years time? >> yes, it was ross the show said that fridays are dead friday is dominating as the work from home day. going back years to a mix of days fridays remain staunchly work from home and people are drifting in on the other day there's a three-phase week,

monday through thursday, friday and the weekend of everything has changed. >> look at what you just said. looking at the data over the weekend. we can all work whenever we want to work. people at 4:00 p.m. their productivity and some of companies are saying go home we know you'll log back in between 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. >> yeah, exactly jill, go ahead. >> i was just saying the boundaries, technology has made our lives boundariless, and so workers are saying, look, i might be checking email early in the morning and late hat night so if i want to take a yoga class from 2:00 to 3:00, as long as i'm being productive and delivering the results that you expect why do you care >> exactly. >> because in a lot of cases they are overdelivering and not everybody, and then you address those on a one-off in general people want to be treated like adults who can meet your expectations and not micromanaged. >> all right julie, peaceful warrior, bauke, appreciate it. nicholas bloom, thank you very

much appreciate your time today. >> thank you. >> this reminds me of a restauranteur who says thursday night is his new friday night, right? >> no kidding. >> because people aren't in the city as much on friday night so it's not as busy and people are eating earlier because they are getting off work earlier. >> and that's why i love coming in on friday, the cafeteria lets me customize and do whatever i want. >> yeah, and the parking lot. >> i agree. >> recycling papers, blastics and other items can be messy and equally as complicated that could soon change do you know why? of course you know why ai and robotics are helping to clean up the process for everyone involved. we'll get the key details when "power lunch" returns.

welcome back, everybody. recycling is as messy as it is complicated and not just for you and me the same goes for the companies involved, but one firm working on a solution that uses ai diana olick joins us now in our continuing sires on climate startups hi, di. >> reporter: hi, ty. imagine if we could learn from what we're trying to recycle and at the same time simplify the process. in a combination of ai and

robotics that's how new companies are reimagining and revamping recycling. is it a milk container, a can of bud wires or a jug of tied detergent? until now defining that has been a difficult and dirty job in recycling plants, but now companies like amp robotics, machine x and a california-based startup called everest labs are using aye and robotics to simplify, expedite and improve the process. >> they have been losing millions of dollars to the landfill and because of aye they were able to identify the value of the losses and capture that. >> reporter: everest labs puts 3-d depth-sensing cameras on recycling conveyor lines they can identify up to 100 items in each frame. within 12 milliseconds the ai software can tell what those

objects are and what type of packaging they are. >> we get data around brand, types of packaging, types of materials, and how much of that is getting recovered and reused and how much of that material is being september to the landfall. >> reporter: that helped increase the potential recovery of recyclablite else add to that robotic arms which he says recovering the packaging lee times to four times more effectively than humans which means big cost-savings for major recyclers like smr. >> in we can replace some portion of the positions that we otherwise would have to task with human beings with a robot and do that in a cost-effective way, that's ultimately good for the business. >> reporter: everest lab is banked by a future fund bgb, sierra ventures, morado and explorer capital total funding to date $26 million. increasing recovery through automation is the primary goal

here, but reducing costs is the goal as well recycling has been a rough business for many reasons, not the least of which is sorting through all the trash, and this seems to solve that problem actually in a matter of milliseconds. >> whenever i ask my 17-year-old to take out the repsych lipping or the trash, his response is robertic and instant, and not favorable. the robots are expensive by definition, but it sounded like one of the entrepreneurs you talked to there said that the net cost is actually better with robots >> yes. >> than it is with humans? >> yeah, you add the robots and the aye that you think would be very expensive and when you weigh that against the cost of labor you're saving so much more money with the robotics and ai they can sort better and also have quality control this ai can actually see if your son cleaned the stuff out of the recycling materials like you're supposed to rinse them. >> no. >> and do that buff put them in the recycling.

i'm sure hi does that. >> yeah, mm-hmm. all right. guy, thanks, appreciate interest. >> i'm about aschery as him when it's my turn to take it by the curb. shares of campbell's soup is lower on news that it's buying my favorite marinara sauce there's some concern about a lot of sauce and campbell's ownership. those shares are down 1.5% should you buy the dip >> that's not a dip. >> they better not turn it into that that's coming up in three-stock lunch right after the break. so you know all you need for recovery. and you are? i'm an investor...in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to... nasdaq 100 innovations like... wearable training optimization tech. uh, how long are you... i'm done.

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welcome back back. we've got three big earnings and headline movers starting with tyson foods, moving on both -- missing on both the top and bottom lines the stock is moving to the downside by about 5% they talked about slowing demand and plant closures here with our trades is chief operations officer at er shares. eva, what do you do with tyson it's been tough lately >> i would say a strong sell the reason is this is a publicly-traded family business

but it has been run by the family that owns 22% of the company as a private company the reason i say that is that there have been behaviors that would not be tolerated in other publicly listed companies, and we have seen excessive chairman compensation, which is not in line with how the stock has performed. by way of comparison, look, for example, the same person is receiving a fraction of what tyson's paying so, there is a misalignment there. also note that in the last one year, the gross margin has dropped by 50%, actually the ebitda has dropped by two-thirds, and the profits have gone from $4 billion to $900 million, so the fundamentals do not look good. this is a culture, a company, actually, that has been set by bad family culture, bad corporate culture, bad corporate values, and i do not see that changing any time soon

i think once the culture has changed, it's really hard to get it back to where it was before and i do not think it's being run in a good way, and the fundamentals are aligned with the way the company's managed. i do not think that's going to change it's a sell. >> that is a fairly strong indictment of tyson. let's stick with food, shall we? move forward to campbell's soup, which has acquired rao's owner sovos brands that's a lot of sauce. sovos up 25% campbell's, down 1%. what's your take on campbell's here we all like the rao's sauce, eva. what do you think of this trade, however? >> i do like the sauce too i have it as a sell again. although, this time it's different. the story's different. it's, again, a family-owned business, and the family owns 33% of the company, but in this case, it hires external professionals to manage the company, and we've seen, again,

a bad culture as a result of this the gross margin has dropped from 52% to 30%, and the ebitda has gone from 27% to 17%, and so in the last 25 years, the revenues have slightly increased, but the profits are way off where they were 25 years ago, so i think the culture changed, and again, there's consistency here the culture has changed. i am not optimistic that it's going to get back to where it was 25 years ago it's a sell. >> all right eva, we got a quick programming note campbell's ceo will join "mad money" today with jim cramer at 6:00 p.m. eastern time he'll talk about the deal partner rao's sauce, so make sure you watch that one. shares of dialysis firm devida are up about 3% after the stock was upgraded to a buy. what's the story here, eva

>> that's a hold on the one hand, i like the fact that their valuation is consistent with their peers, and also, there's expectation that there's pent-up demand due to covid. on the other hand, in the last four years, we've seen flat revenues, and in the last two years, we've seen that the profits have actually dropped quite a bit. so, that's when the stock was at their all-time high and when the profits are up 40% and now the stock is up 55% for the year, approaching its all-time from two years back, i do not see -- i cannot justify buy here, so if you own the stock, you can hold it if you do not own the symptom, i wouldn't rush to buy it. >> eva, thank you very much. appreciate it. very strong opinions, eva. thank you very much. >> thank you >> you bet we got a lot more stories we want to get to with just a little bit of time left. it is closintig me on "power lunch" when we return. no big deal? go on... well, what if you partner with ibm and red hat,

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we got a little less than three minutes left in the program. we got several stories we want to tell you about, so let's get right to it. first is warner brothers it says is that "barbie" -- you can't go a day without a "barbie" story that movie has now topped a billion dollars in ticket sales at global box office, fastest pace to a billion in warner brothers' long and storied history. just 17 days "barbie," the number one movie in the u.s. and canada for the third weekend in a row director greta gerwig, the first female director to top a billion

dollars. amazing it's taken that long for that to happen, but it shows you a little bit about hollywood >> this movie is more than just, hey, this is a breakout. this is historic and you saw it >> i saw it. i thought it was good. >> we'll see according to care.com's annual survey of parents, 67% say they spend 20% or more on their total household income on child care that's up from the 51% of parents surveyed last year and it's in direct conflict with what the government says is reasonable the department of health and human services considers 7% of total household income to be affordable yeah, not preschool. when you hit 5, everything gets a little easier in the public school system, but 0 to 5. >> what surprised me here in part was the big jump from 51% to 67% and the number of people who say they spend that amount of money on child care and it was just in one year. i don't know what happened to make that so >> i would just offer anecdotal evidence, a lot of our preschool costs have gotten much higher

because all of a sudden their labor costs jumped, and they're catching up with that, so places that had been $7,000 are now $10,000, things like that. >> interesting all right, from day care to back-to-school spending where it's estimated to be a record year for retail spending the national retail foundation estimates the total back to school spending could top $41 billion. that will be a more than $4 billion increase from just last year. families expected to spend about $900, an all-time high, and for college students, an average of $1,367, also an all-time high. i guess that would be for furnishing dorm rooms, fraternity house rooms and so forth. that's the perfect entree for our next story how can you fund retirement when you're spending a thousand dollars on pencils a new survey from charles schwab found more than 60% of retirement savers think inflation is an obstacle to being financially comfortable,

and more than a third say they'll delay retirement in order to save more >> you see this more and more, people want to stay in the workforce longer, both for financial reasons and also personal reasons thank you for watching "power lunch." we appreciate your being with us today. >> dow is just off session highs but it's the outperformer today. "closing bell" starts right now. welcome to "closing bell," i'm mike santoli in for scott wapner here at post nine at the new york stock exchange. we begin with a reversal of the reversal the broad indexes recapturing the ground loss in friday's sharp afternoon selloff even as the retreat in apple shares continues to another session the s&p 500 again pushing above that 4,500 level as another rush of earnings and a key inflation report await in coming days, which brings us to the talk of the tape, where we ask the a stealthpullback can be enough to refresh the summer rally or if a tougher and broader gut check is due as august