richer and they no longer have to add sugar more palatable for some of us. >> go have a glass of champagne wherever you are right now i urge you to do it. >> thank you for watching "power lunch. >> "closing bell" starts right now. welcome to "closing bell "qwest i'm mike santoli in for scott wapner at the new york stock exchange this make or break hour starts with a mild disturbance with a reminder of retail bank challenges and a growth out of china overnight wobbling the tape and you have debt options and tame bond yields and apple shares have all got the index as well off their lows as we head into the close which brings us to our talk of the tape. is this a routine mid-summer pullback to help us digest gapers on the start of a more setback? here to discuss all of that is

lauren goodwin, senior director of multiasset mfrl strategy. lauren, good to see you. >> good to be here thanks for having me, mike >> want to go back to just about a month ago right before the previous cpi report, right july 12th. the s&p 500 within 1% of where it is right now and the 10-year treasury yield at 4% where it is right now. when we got it, it was a bit of a kick-start for the late july rally and now we've given it back what is the status right now in your mind of the landing and the economic scenario and how much of that the market can benefit from or potentially have -- >> the market learned pretty good information from the last inflation report from june that we saw in july which was the disinflationary process has moved from an early stage to a more stable one and that is one where the fed is not done hiking

and investors can be excited about the potential for a soft landing. i think it's a little bit of a false start because until unemployment claims start durably rising, that narrative is likely to be the one that dominates. do we see a market upside from here it would have to come from a broadening of performance from the laggard to catch up and we may be in a bit of a range down in a volatile market and one where stock pickers have a bit of an advantage. >> this latest rise in treasury yields has been a global rise in yields, actually what do you read into it in terms of are we just pricing out or pushing away the recession now? is it just about rebuilding inflation expectations and treasury supply that's on the way, as well >> it's about something else entirely there are a couple of reasons why long yields can rise curably and the global interest rates

change because growth is looking different in the future or because inflation expectations change or because it's supply and demand factor. what we've seen in the past week or so are defend, and it includes some of that and it also, of course, includes the drown grades for the things we saw last week impeach a ralliry important takeaways on investors at point first, it matters very much why the treasury yields are moving higher is it because it can happen sustainably, we expect expect that on extrkt more volatility >> the second thing, important for investors to keep in mind, so as investors have thought about eating donation.

wat the short, dur egg and credit and only in the mup municipal part of that and taking the dur aigd risk. >> one of thing that is passing the fed policy because the short end of the curve is stable and communicating a measured stance on maybewe'll need to do some more tightening, but as it stands now probably not yet. the market is comfortable with that is that something that can -- i guess, underpin further financial market stability, and the cpis in their range and therefore the stock market can benefit. the options, with the three-year option is very well received and that might be an indication that supply can be absorbed >> look, i think it's really interesting that we benefited in the market from several quarters now of essentially a pivot rally. the idea that each if the fed

might have a high griefance left in the arsenal that would be close to the hiking cycle or the terminal rate and it has historically an opportunity for investors to add value it's only when the pivot starts to turn into, oh, no, we might be entering into a recession that the markets might be able to react to recession in real time so the stock investors are not so worried about the fed funds rate and its trajectory at this point for equity markets. >> and it is a fair point that the market doesn't always see it coming from a long distance away so we have to keep that in mind as we deal with the leads and lags of this cycle let's bring in greg branch of very top financial group and katrina simonetti into this conversation welcome to you both. we can talk right now as a snapshot of the economy and soft

landing remains plausible and other will say this is how the economy decelerates before a downturn one thing that's clear is this earnings season has been pretty much been better than expected on paper that the market has not received the news all that well. there's been a lot of sell on the news what does that tell you? >> what it tells me is although it's been better than expected, probably for the first time in a long time we are dealing with fundamentally, does that mean it's been good and because we see the lowered expectations and that's what we have been so far in the quarter, it's certainly different than the 3% we saw if the first quarter despite the politicians pumping in lots of stimulus and lots of government spending which has kind pushed out whatever landing we're going to have, whether it be soft or hard quite frankly, the title -- what we all have to agree on is in order to get from here to there from 4.25% to 2% target that the fed had, we need further demand

destruction, whether you believe that will be further fed action or whether you believe he's done enough, the impact of what they have done or what they will have done, and the 30% to 40% -- 30 or 40 basis points for the last eight moment months. >> we only saw becausis points and if it says yes, but they could be closer to the end of what they have to do the impact when they'val rally done and you expect on greg, can you. out the pickal rs have has been a different factor in the surprise and the resilient economy.

i mean, the ira, the inflation reduction act and the chips act passed in august of last year. it was in the budget for next year when we were looking ahead at the 2023 economy, whatever you thought the economy would give you, recession or not in the first half, the fiscal situation was set up well before we got into this year >> there are a couple of things that weren't in there. we did not anticipate the treasury to have untaxed, unborrowed money and the quantitative easing with 500 billion loans in effect interest-free. we did not anticipate the employee reduction credit act and we did not anticipate the borrowers act and we've had healthy stimulus coming from the politician which is have been quite frankly, fighting the if e fed. when we see the duration for

when we'll see this rally depends on lot when we will see the stimulating activities start to taper off a bit >> that's not really qe and the treasury account is there to be spent and we'll talk about that another time, but ckaterina, what's your basic sense in the s&p 500? seeming like we're setting aside the imminent dip interest a recession, maybe earnings hit their low point in the second quarter and that's what the projections say and what do you think the risk reward looks like with all of that in mind >> the risk/reward is not looking effective and the market is taking a bet of a breather today which is totally understandable and when you look the debate, and, and it was coming down and working that the

fed is moving. the interest rate hikes and the performance has not only been driven by earnings and it has been ignoring the earnings provision and that is not looked at as closely. we expect some type of an earnings recession before the end of the year. we think the soft landing is possible, but our expectations for the return at year end is the defensive stance that we have in our clients' portfolios. >> didn't we just have the earnings recession i mean, if you just look at the quarterly pace of earnings are set to go it's shallow, perhaps, and off of a high base and the challenge like that, that we by the might be teared and

frustrated by our mental, especially when you look at the behavior that came out, it was first in the argument and they can't say that the earnings recession is out of the possibility. we think it is a very real possibility, so that's why we're focusing on the sectors that can sustain and do well in this environment, sectors like industrials and financials and consumer staples and some sectors are over the first couple of months -- a couple of quarters of the year have done exceptionally well, and on the sector level. >> got you >> lauren, one thing that has not really popped up as a red or yellow flag just yet is the credit condition and a lot of folks are taking comfort in the

idea that how bad can the economy be if there's vul perable. we is that something you think the, and it's something that ore investors have beening outta are a lot, and it's, not not to underbore, and the credit psyche will may look different and that's because of the changes that we've seen as a result of government programs and frankly, strong, corporate action to push out maturity to reduce borrowing costs in the near-term for the next couple of years this is an asset class thinking credit including high yield that has improved in quality and so while i completely agree with katerina that risks are only

likely to rise from here the credit cycle may act differently. we may not see high yield spreads widen out the way they tend to, and so when it comes to taking risk across the portfolio. we've been interest interesting in's game twist and gather's coupon at the same type. >> got it. leg, in terms of tactically how you would sort of survey the landscape right now and decide what the market is giving you given the environment that you're expecting with some trouble to the economy i know in the past you thought exposure in the market makes sense. a lot of those stocks have had sharp pullbacks at high levels is that an area that makes sense to you right now >> yes i'll pull from both lauren and katerina on this on the one hand, we have significant downward rescissions to go and in a macro environment

in a significant downward revision, you will also have those companies that can put up double-digit earnings growth and we all know what those areas are, mike, whether it's cybersecurity and terthedded to cloud, tethered okay, a, are, r skwh they will still offer safety on the other hand like lauren said, i do think there an opportunity particularly in the shorter end of the curve where we weren't getting a reward when i was concerned about this in 2021, but now we are, and so i think where if i may be a little shorter duration than she's indicated because i want to position myself at the end of all of this, and yes, even i will share this at some point where we have the opportunities

with the companies >> all right yeah the market was down 1.2% in the s&p earlier and now just down a half a percent you can't count on it being that resilient every day and it's still on the side of the two-way market lauren, greg >> thank you very much let's get to work the, and head to @conductor nbc important com f fomally sweater, and swooel, and that is, of course, the former twitter julia boorstin is here with that. hi, julia. >> hi, mike. new advertisers for brand spacing and expanding its partnership with integral ad science which is a third party that helps give his advertiser they will have a study so brands can be relaxed, standard and

conservative preferences around content. they're also bolstering for appearing on users' timeliness it follows that hate speech and offensive content have increaseded on the platform since elon musk took over. musk and x sued the center for countering digital hate. they failed to take action against subscribers who post offensive content. now the question is whether the ceo needs to reassure and bring back advertisers after musk has repeatedly declared his commitment to unfettered free speech it is always about that background here. free speech versus removing hate speech. >> and giving advertisers more control over targeting ord or jens and thank you, julia, very much don't miss ex ceo lindy akarino.

let's get a check of top stocks to watch. seema modi is here >> u.s. cellular and tds are extending recent gains today as j.p. morgan upgraded both stocks to overweight. they explore strategic alternatives for u.s. cellular and they estimate it could be worth $80 a share more than double een after ump jing 80%. we are watching data dog having the worst week on record as the full-year outlook is outweighing the beats on earnings and revenue and the shares are up 17% on the day mike >> pretty heavy volume, seema, thank you. we're just getting started here. up next, financials under pressure and the sector feeling the heat after moody's cuts after the bank names and we'll break down the big concerns after the break. we're live from the new york

stock exchange you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc. (fthere ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about! (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them. (hero fan) this plan is amazing! (josh allen) another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. (fan #1) that was josh allen. (fan #2) mmhm. (vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy s23. only on verizon. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't

know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

welcome back to "closing bell." financials, one of the worst performing s&p sectors after moody's cut the credit rating for a number of regionals and that move renewing investor concerns around the challenges facing the bank. joining me now is scott seavers of piper sandler to talk about the group. good to see you. >> hey, mike good to see you. thank you very much. >> what do you think of not just the downgrade, but in general this broader, refocusing of attention on some of the

underlying issues that we know the regional banks have been dealing with and where those stand right now? >> yeah. it's still kind of a work in progress we come off of what was a slightly better than expected second quarter there is certainly a lot of pressure and i don't want to minimize those, but i think what happened in the earnings season is that investors breathed a sigh of relief that the worst fears earlier this spring did not come to pass and they've clearly stabilized and that's it having said that, i think with this yields that we've had over the last week or so, that sort of caused some of this enthusiasm to wane the downgrades we got today and that's weighing on sentiment, as well what a lot of investors are doing is we gained off 7% and very depressed levels over the course of the last month and maybe we take a deep breath and recollect our thoughts because the fact of the matter is we still have a long road ahead of us whether it's funding cost and net income and new capital rules

and there's still a lot to worry about. >> yeah. what do you do, i guess, in terms of assisting with the banks in that type of environment where we have all of these funding issues and margin squeezes on the way all of the weigh presumable ty to an econoc downturn >> we're trying to stick with quality to the extent that we can. j.p. morgan remains our favorite bank with its ability to generate superior returns despite this uncertain environment and some of the most punishing regulatory requirements already in the industry that's just an excellent company, and we think it will continue to be so. if you get into the larger regional, we like u.s. bancorp and that's a unique opportunity. they got hit earlier this spring on capital concern issues so they've had a little bit of ground to make up, but i think they've done a really nice job

of rolling out to investors about how they'll advance their capital levels at the time and how they generate internally than anyone else in the industry so we think what you're getting is an excellent company in a historic discounted valuation. higher reserve and conservative expectations and it's a great positioning and strong capital and an attractive valuation. >> in tomorrows of the impact if is going to be one >> unlike the downgrade of the, and some of these banks have to fund themselves in the capital market have we seen anything in term of having them to pay higher spreads on their own debt as they raise money i know deposits, funding costs are going up, as well. i'm just wondering if there's any real feed through for dolla dollars and cents for the bank >> when i think of ratings

agencies downgrade, i think of it in two ways and one is the qualitative impact and we're seeing that in stock price action today and the second is the quantitative impact because they have to fund themselves and what will be interesting over the next few years is presumably the regionals will be subject to something like tlacks, total loss absorbent capital, and some of the acronyms that we'll have in the infrastructure and there will be a lot of supply from long-term debt presumably if we're layinger on cost all that will do is weigh on profitability and earnings momentum and it will be a negative here over the course of the next few years we're already not just seeing it in debt, but in deposit costs which are, of course, a real form of debt and a big one so it's already impacting things in varyious ways and will continue to do so going forward. >> seems like a long road. scott, appreciate it thank you for keeping us up-to-date >> thank you very much >> up next, it's been a year

since the chips act was pass in the house. kristina partsinevelos is standing by with that. >> $53 billion promised by the u.s. government and not a penny in site. we talk about the progress of the setback. i did have hearing aids from another company... i was just frustrated... i almost gave up. with miracle ear it's all about service. they're personable... they're friendly. i'm very happy with them. we provide you with a free lifetime of aftercare.

meaning free checkups, cleanings, and adjustments. i see someone new... someone happy... it's really made a difference. call miracle ear at 1-800-miracle and schedule your free, no obligation hearing evaluation today.

ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

the $53 billion chips act was signed one year ago with the hope of jump-starting the semiconductors in america, and manufacturers are still waiting on that funding. kristina partsinevelos here with more hi, kristina >> hi, mike. silicon cared by producer and where i am in north carolina has opted to start construction even though they haven't received any federal aid. however, other chip companies have had to keep their plans on hold listen in. >> we've been building coalitions with the construction industry so that once funding does start flowing we could

begin to start that process as quickly as possible. >> well, it's not as quickly as many of these companies had hoped because the commerce department has to sift through 400 statements of interest seeking funding. they are so overwhelmed that they had to hire 190 staff members to sift through the applications and help disburse the $53 million over the next five years and companies won't see any of that funding until the earliest, the end of this year and then they can start continuously hiring that talent and hope that these factories don't sit empty. mike >> i was going to say, kristina, presumably it's not keeping things from getting started, this lack of government funding, but how far can things progress? will these companies just remain taking those risks to kind of sink their capital into this indefinitely

>> it's actually -- you see a discrepancy between you can afford to start construction like the intels and tsmc and versus the other companies that have made promises with the smaller firms and they've had to put their plans on hold. like integra, we spoke to the ceo, and just a few other firms, too. it's really a divide between both right now, and the next step, though, this is just the beginning and then they have to retrofit all of these factories and see if any of that gets delayed because of the lack of funding. >> and best case scenario, what are we talking about in terms of when you might actually see production out of the new facility. >> that could take anywhere from two or nine years, and i know i was doing ans very see that overall not going to see product unless it was quite a while. >> obviously, it was a long-term

plan to some extent. kristina, thank you very much. >> speaking of chips, don't miss an exclusive interview with global foundry on overtime and that's coming up at 4:00 p.m. eastern. >> up next, disney's big a.i. effort the media company announcing a new push into the world of artificial intelligence amid the ongoing writers strike we'll hear from the expert with his take after this break. "closing bell" will be right back

disney reportedly forming a new task force to study the application of artificial intelligence across the company amid the ongoing hollywood writers and actors strike. the news coming a day before disney is set to report third quarter earnings joining me now to discuss is new york times columnist and cnbc contributor jim stewart. always good to have you join. >> thank you >> i suppose every big company has a task force to figure out if a.i. can help one way or another and with disney, they're looking for efficiencies any way they can find it to restore the economics of the business models that are challenged and content creation and movies and linear tv what's your take the timing of this announcement is bad for disney given the use of ai is a huge issue in the ongoing, you know, negotiations

with the writers and with the actors they just started talking again and a lot of the writers let's face it, it's they're next on the chopping block here a.i. does have the potential to reduce very large costs for disney, not to disney, but of all of the hollywood producers wall street has been very concerned that the cost of the streaming services have just been skyrocketing in a round of control and ai is certainly a possible way sharply reducing the cost if we look at disney and a lot of the other studios produce it's formulaic in many cases and there are settlements and the action, adventure genres and the marvel things and there are set pieces in every one of these and dare i say it, ai could probably write some of that

now that said, the high concept issue is a truly original and that's got to come from humans. >> right especially at a time when in theory the cookie cutter formulaic film release slate are one of the things that's wrong with the franchise that used to be so profitable and just big picture for the company and they're in a fix as other media companies are, and the areas that are growing fast like streaming are not profitable they're basically burning up capital. the places that have cash flow still like cable tv are shrinking pretty fast and it's created a situation where ceo bob iger has to consider all options and selling a stake or finding partners out of espn and selling out of broadcast tv and where does that place the company that says when the stock goes down it's the best frank iedz, jusfranchise, and just bu it >> it's been a pivotal sea

change for disney and the entertainment sector in general that disney more than anyone the stock is now near its 52-week low. the expectations are so grim for the earnings that i suppose that the only real surprise would be making better than expected, but they're getting hit on every single spot and certainly the decline of linear broadcasting and the cable channels and the old broadcast channel and this is a serious issue for all of these companies. i mean, i think it came as a shock to a lot of people that came on this very network and putting it up for sale and it wasn't up anymore for disney and that came as a shock to put people inside the company and outside the company, but i think people are looking at what are the trends that led him to make such a statement and they're declining and if that's true, who's going to want these assets and at what price can they

unload them? again, it seems like they were obvious buyers of people lining up to buy these things i wouldn't have had to advertise that they're going to be for sale. >> right although i guess the question is if the market is going to penalize des me for the fact that they are owning or they have this exposure to those shrinking profit pools that maybe somebody else is willing to either take a stake or find a way to pay the right price and buy it, but -- but, you know, more broadly speaking, you think iger's rep tagutation has taken nosedive i wonder if it's a matter that the circumstances have changed and the industry is in a tougher spot and he's back there to make some of the harder decisions that simply need to be made by somebody >> well, yeah. some of this you can't really blame on iger. he led the company with

absolutely growing reputation and he came back to a changed industry nobody will be popular who has to make large, across the company cuts and he's had to make cuts and lay people off so there's one right there for popularity and everyone would agree he's not doing this recklessly that has to be done. number two, he's inflamed the cree aft creative community with comments the writers aren't being realistic and he has to be super careful about off-the-cuff remarks about the motive about these very important, creative people to disney going forward, and then i think as a way he announced or i guess you can call it announcement and he's re-thinking the whole structure of the company came as a great surprise, and i think it caused real problems inside and people were waking up and then, his

partners out there, they don't own all of these things by themselves so no head's up and no advanced warning that this was coming and i think that came as a shock to many of them, as well. so lately, there have definitely been some missteps, i think, that have aggravated a very difficult situation. >> well, we'll see >> he's typically over the years been very good at telling the story in a way that wall street is going to embrace and see if they can pull it off this time jim, good to talk to you >> last chance to weigh in on our question of the day. we asked is it time to position your portfolio more defensively? head to @cnbcclosing bell at x, formerly known as twitter. we'll be back after this break

you got this. let's go. gobble gobble. i've seen bigger legs on a turkey! rude. who are you? i'm an investor in a fund that helps advance innovative sports tech like this smart fitness mirror. i'm also mr. leg day...1989! anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations. i go through a lot of pants. before investing carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com.

14 minutes until the closing bell this intraday rally has carried on and the s&p is down 1.2% at the lows the fourth day in a row the s&p has crossed the 4500 level, as well let's get back to seema modi for the key stocks to watch. >> this is the worst performer on the s&p 500 after cutting its outlook and cutting a big miss on earnings and its worse day and the stock down 19% meanwhile, on the upside, eli lilly and novo nordisk in all-time highs in today's session and fueled by demand for its diabetes drug in hopes that it will get approved from novo

nordisk, and the treatment reduced and heading for its best day in two decades and by the way, we will hear from eli lilly's ceo tonight on "mad money" with jim cramer mike >> seema, thank you. >> let's get the results of our twitter question of the day or x question as we you in call it. we ask you to position your portfolio more defensively, slight majority, 51% saying yes, 49% still on offense up next, rivian results hitting the tape in just a few minutes we'll break down the key themes and metrics to watch out for, that and much more when we take you inside "the market zone.

( ♪♪ ) ( sfx: people cheering ) ( sfx: stock exchange bell ringing ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( sfx: people celebrating ) ( ♪♪ ) ( sfx: people celebrating ) ( sfx: stock exchange bell ringing ) every business that's why comcast business ( de is launching theal. )

mobile made free event. with our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. it's our best internet. powered by the next generation 10g network and with 99.9% reliability. plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. it's the mobile made free event-happening now. get started for just $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. comcast business, powering possibilities. ♪♪ it's time to bring balance to business travel.

and discover the equilibrium that works for you. at national, you're in control. skip the counter, choose any car in the aisle... and manage your rental right from the app. so you can mix work... with leisure. or leisure... with work. giving you the control to find the perfect balance. go national. go like a pro.

we are now in the closing group zone and there's more trouble ahead and leslie pick or what to watch in lyft results and phil lebeau on expectations for rivian so, nicole, we actually have this firming of the market intraday and we are back at this 4500 level on the s&p, but a lot of things have been in place coming into august where you should have expected the potential for a little bit of down side choppiness do you still expect something like that because of the seasonal factors we priced in a lot, but also what would you do with that kind of a pullback? >> i think there's a lot to unpack here and august is generally a lack of liquidity month. so as we close out it will be interesting to see just how choppy it gets or if we go into a bit of a holding pattern and a tight range and then september is gearing up for, okay, that's

probably not going to be as easy as the first half of the year. i think the most interesting takeaway has been with as many economic surprises as we've had to the upside, we are not getting earnings revisions following suit we've stepped back and taken a look at, okay, the markets have never priced in what the bond market and economists were calling for which was this recessionary type of event, and so with that we go into the back half of the year going, at the surface, we still end around this 4500, 4600 target we keep a lot of what we made in the experience of getting there is a lot different and we are seeing the choppiness rotations out of technology and the pickup in more defensive and cyclical areas playing into now everyone's in agreement that we're not headed into this recession. >> i guess the big question is the market going to be satisfied

with looking toward 2024 and the potential for a resumption of earnings growth if the economy can stay on firm footing or if we've had this relief period where, okay, we didn't get a recession yet and we also didn't have a super severe downturn in valuations, as you mentioned and therefore, is it just a temporary pause in the difficult? >> there is one bit of optimism that i do think that we are overlooking and it's productivity and we are starting to see productivity numbers come back, and we're seeing it the worst it's ever been and now we're seeing an incremental peckp pickup and with the digitization, that will come forward into revenue and so when we think about productivity, we continue to see uptick that is where i start to think, okay, it could look even better than projected in 2024, but

we'll need more to get there, and so right now i think it's going to be a lot of how does one think about the positioning that took them this far year to date and where do we want to be in the back half because if you have technology, you did fine. you did great. >> and you might be willing to protect that for a little while. >> talk to you in just a second. we want to get to leslie picker on anticipating the list yft nur after the call. >> lyft had numbers since the end of june and dramatically trailing its rival in 2023 uber, if you recall, reporting its first-ever operating profit last week and mobility in the entire space is helping to drive the stock higher in recent weeks and lyft has undergone a big change at the top with david rischer, having stepped into the ceo role in april. for analysts the overarching question is relative to uber and

overall pricing commentary and the ability for them to control various costs including insurance expenses the street is expecting a loss of one cent per share on an adjusted basis with slightly higher year over year revenue of about a billion dollars, mike? >> leslie, thanks very much. let's get to phil on rivian numbers about to hit phil >> as it was with fefk ar and with lucent and another one of the pure ev start-ups, it is all about the guidance and now they have made roughly speaking, 25,000 vehicles in the first half of this year and what do they say about the full-year guidance and it's 50,000 vehicles and that's where they set their guidance earlier this year do they keep it there and do they increase it that will be in focus as will be the question of pricing for the r1t electric pickup truck. we know ford cut the prices on the lightning for $10,000 on the models and is that putting pressure and what's the order outlook and what is the founder

and ceo rivian sar ay about that there's momentum building here behind what investors are expecting from this company, but they're still expected to post a loss, roughly speaking of $1.5 billion and we're getting numbers here within the next half hour and we'll see what they say not only for the second quarter and more importantly, mike, what they say about q3 and the rest of this year especially when it comes to production. >> sure, you mentioned the nice run that the shares have had and compared to lucid and the others that you mentioned and what do we attribute that to is it the category we're in and further along and delivering on the volume promises or what? >> a couple of things, they have scale that the other two don't have at this point and two, they haven't disappointed over the last couple of quarters. with fiskar, they brought down their production guidance. we know the story with lucid, we covered that over the last six months the last seven, eight months for

rivian have generally been a case of meeting expectation and doing what they said they would do and that has people saying, okay, we think they're getting some traction here phil, we'll talk to you once the numbers are out. thanks very much nicole, not so much with these ev makers and there has been in the last couple of months there have been longer term growth plays out there. on one level after the regional bank stressed in march and everyone went for the known winners. since then it's been a rekindling was risk appetites and is that something that you would welcome or be suspicious of >> when it comes to names like rivian, what a buy at 13 a share. is it still a buy at 26? i don't know we're talking about a manufacturer putting out 50,000 units of production as a target and that was a bit speculative

for me i think there are still names that are well-established, diversified business that we're not talking about that have not had a market performance year to date that can be a balance regardless of what the second half of the year comes and strong dividend, playing games and that's where we will start to see some rotation and i would prefer to be ahead of that rotation >> you mentioned if you happened to own tech this year you're in very good shape. somebody in that position, where would you be looking to sort of rebalance into >> i mean, it's hard you can give up 5% in income on the short duration side or i pick up a company like honeywell that has paid its dividend religiously for 30 years and i'm talking about a 2% dividend and if it's a diversified business unit and i don't know if you've come across this, but they're in the quantum computing space and if you do something with it it's very interesting also apb, looking at liquid

natural gas and the race to consumption globally and also the conversations around hydrogen and many alternative forms of energy are all interesting and those names have not performed the way the s&p broadly has year to date >> the older companies trying to play longer term themes and seems like the place to look nicole, thank you very much. appreciate it very much. the market is in the s&p 500 anyway, up for the week still and we've not lost as much today as was gained yesterday. the s&p 500 working on a one-third of a percent decline and we're at the 4500 level and we've crossed it the last four trading days in a row and there has been more wear and tear in small caps and they were the downside leaders all day and they were down 0.6% and there has been a bounce in apple shares and those shares are down 9.3% from their highs and it seems like they have broken the trend line from technical support, but they are trying to

march with 180 and that also has helped the s&p 500 and the treasury yields have also backed off this week on similar valuation concerns that we've had going into monday. that does it for us here on th closing bell." let's send it into overtime with morgan [ closing bell ringing ] stocks under pressure and closing off the session lows and another ratings agency that shook sentiment and that is the scorecard on wall street welcome to "closing time," john brennan is off today earningsresults from lyft, twilio, rivian and an ai winner, super micro which is you were more than 300% this year and plus we'll talk to the ceo of global foundry which reported numbers this morning and saw a