defamation lawsuit. it's wednesday, september 6th, 2023, and "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on c nbc. we're live from the nasdaq market site at times square. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. we see modest pullbacks. s&p down by about 9 points. the dow future's off by 2. the nasdaq by 43. guys, accept is above 4. that was the close yesterday. stocks were down in yesterday's

sessions. the dow closed lower by about 00 points. s&p fell by 0.4%, again, a close above 4500. nasdaq was virtually flat, down by 11 points. if you've been watching treasury yields, you have seen a bit of a pullback. the 2-year is at 4.9%. the 10 year is down. crude oil prices have hit their highest level yesterday since november of last year. you're still talking about brent crude at the point just below $90. it's at $89.52, but it touched above $90 in the session. and then the dollar at its highest levels since yesterday, march 15th of this year. you can see the dollar off ever so slightly. meantime let's talk about amazon's legal team not offering concessions to the federal trade commission to pursue a settlement over antitrust claims. this clears the way for the

regulator to file a salawsuit later this month. it looks at whether it's favoring its own products on its platforms and how it treats third-party sellers. it could lead to a breakup of the company. we'll see how far the ftc gets on any of this and whether a judge is going to agree. of course, in this case, it goes back to theish o i issue of pri which means pricing for the partner and those who have been frustrated about what happens on the platform. >> logistics. whether they're getting -- >> all of that. >> -- fair place millionaire, wherever other stuff gets put over it. the thing that was weird is amston wouldn't give any concessions with the lawyers. it didn't help microsoft at all. maybe if that's the case, if you give all these concessions and it doesn't work, maybe that's a

way of saying, forget it, we're not going to make concessions if we're going to wind up in court anyway. >> it's almost like it might be futile. if you look at what. they're going to challenge everything. they're almost like, look, it ee going to happen to me anyway. it's meritless. >> if you offer concessions, that becomes the new starting point for the negotiations. that's the problem with any of these things. first i thought it was really weird they wouldn't offer any concessions. >> it can't be worse than offering concessions and tell you it doesn't help anyway. >> the other piece is i think you have to determine that they have some kind of serious monopoly like power in the business before you can make an argument effectively how you

treat sellers. if becky opened a store around the corner and treated certain people better, there's nothing illegal about that. if your store happens to be the only store in the world, that might be a problem. but in truth, even electronically now between walmart and walmart plus now, amazon, it's not so clear they have the dominant sort of share of the entire market. >> i love amazon. i'm a prime member. i can understand being frustrated as a vendor. i bought ruffled bathing suits for my kids. they offered me knock-offs. i tried them. they're bad. >> people complained religiously about having to go down to walmart feeling like they were being squeezed to the bone. >> and take it or leave it because they were so much of the market and still are, but i

think you're probably right. it's going to be a tough bar to say, okay, this is the only game in town. >> let's stick for a moment with the big tech and regulation issue of the moment pause we have some news out in the last hour from the european commission. it's designated 22 core businesses as gatekeepers of online services. this goes to theish of how much power a company may or may not have. amazon, by the way, is on this list. others on the list are alpha bit, apple, meta, and microsoft. it comes with 45 million monthly active users. they're considered gatekeepers. they're required the make their apps usable with others and decide which apps they want. a bit of a different issue. nonetheless that's the app store and how things are working in

the category. you could argue apple is one of two or three companies that are, quote, gatekeepers. it's not such a stretch to say they have market power. the question is how much market power do they have and ultimately who's the beneficiary of all of this? >> to become a monopoly litigator or someone who's really good in your field, it takes a long time. it's nuanced. i think of apple as one big monopoly, but are they doing bad things maybe? sometimes maybe. are they being anti-competitive? but are they really good and offer me exactly what i want in a million different ways? do they deserve to have the lion's share of my business? so they do. that's why it's really hard. depending on where you are politically, it matter as what you think is monopoly and what isn't a monopoly.

i'm glad you go to school for a long time to be able to see what the law and what precedent actually says about monopoly. they're all monopolies, the u.s. companies. if i was in the eu, i'd be mad too. but, is there bad behavior? illegal behavior involved to get to where they are? >> it's actually not illegal to be a monopoly. >> i think that's a good point. >> it's how you got there. it could be illegal to get there or to keep it and how you keep your monopoly. >> it's usually keeping it that gets them in trouble. >> your margins are so high, you're going to get people trying to get a piece of that. that makes sense. "squawk box." we don't do it competitively, do we? we want to keep our monopoly

stats. are you willing to bend the rules a little to do that? >> we have lots of competition, joe. >> we want competition. >> we have competition. >> oh, you mean like online-type stuff. >> in the-year- world. you want competition. it keeps you humble. >> i've missed you guys. >> what happened to you? united airline briefly grounded its fleet yesterday. the company blamed the issue on a an update issue. no planes were affected and the cybersecurity was not a factor. becky, you're a newark person. >> yeah. >> united think it's fine to leave out of c and return to a. they have no problems. >> i've done that. i've had that happen. >> a's new. it's big, it's new, it's fancy.

it's good. you go out of c, park there, and come back to a and say, hey, sorry. >> it's a long walk. you used to be able to walk. you can't walk it now. >> and if you get your bags, you're out of a secured area, so you can't use the air tram to get over there. >> especially if you're coming later when the shuttle service isn't working frequently. >> you're getting to where getting to your car is nearly as long as your flight. >> you can go between -- >> in teterboro, we don't have that. so i don't know what you're talking about. >> you don't have any of that. >> no. >> upnone of that. >> you want to talk about a monopoly, it would be united and newark. >> it was a joke, folks. she did laugh. it did help. thank you. >> most folks know in every joke there's some truth. china ordered officials as central government agencies not

to use iphones for work or to bring them in office. according to a "wall street journal" report, staff had been given those instructions by their superiors in recent weeks. it's the latest step in beijing's campaign to cut reliance on foreign technology and enhance cybersecurity. see, we're the spys, okay, right. it mirrors sim har bans in the u.s. against huawei as well as officials using chinese-owned tiktok. i don't think we're trying to completely pollute their youth as some think they're doing here. later we'll speak with china's ambassador, nick burns. he looks to me -- if you look at ambassador, he looks like that. >> central casting. >> coming up in just a momenting we're going to dig into into yesterday's prices.

and montana will talk about its ban on tiktok. you're wchating "squawk box," and this is cnbc. >> announcer: this cnbc program sponsored by truist securities. good hands! hospital bill for prime?! gaaaaap! did you just say gap?! he's talking about expenses health insurance doesn't cover. good thing coach prime knows about...say it one time! aflac! because aflac gets you money to help close that gap! now how do we get this goat outta here? (whistles) aflac! meet one of my new homies! gaaaaap! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover at aflac.com. elephant would've been scarier.

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welcome back to "squawk box." extensions will last at least

three more months. joining us , good morning to yo. >> great to be here. >> should we talk oil or other technical matters? >> let's talk oil. >> what do you think? >> i think it's the most unappreciated story. they love paradox. think about it back in july and it's been energies markets ever since. i don't think people appreciate how strong the sector is. there are more energy stocks than tech, discretionary, industrials. it's really reclaimed the flag of leadership here. >> you think that persists or it comes down after six months, eight months? >> this move back to energy i don't think is fleeting.

this was the dominant leadership group for the past two years. it took the first six months of the year off. i think it's reclaiming its role at the top of the leadership role. when you think about it, whether it's up the cap scale or down, small cap is the only sector making new highs right now. whether you're looking small cap, big cap, schlumberger, halliburton, all 52-week highs yesterday, it's hard to beat things here. >> is it saying the economy is strong or supply's limited? >> right. i think there's a number of things here intellectually we could argue. >> don't do that. you'll lose us. >> it could be demand. it could be china. whatever it is -- >> china should be helping. >> absolutely. given how bearish the headlines

have been, the fact that they're working in spite of that, maybe the energy markets are anticipating a turn in the chinese data. >> your argument is if everybody is offside on this, even if they're making, you know, multi-year highs in all of this, it's going to keep going. >> i think you can look at the etf flows in particular, flows into the xo leader. they're modest at best. they certainly don't reflect the type of enthusiasm we expect given how strong the sector has been. >> that sounds like higher for longer for the fed because then the easy inflation work has already been done and from here it a is going to be much tougher. 8-4 is one thing. -2, we're never going to do it. >> i think the move in energy and oil threaten os really blow up the disinflation narrative that's become so prevalent across the street. >> so what does that mean?

the s&p, horrible for the first three weeks of august. then all of a sudden, it's almost regained 50%. it's up by 2 1/2%. >> it was down almost 5%. >> down 5, back 2 1/2. is it back on track? this doesn't sound good. >> i still think we're in a corrective phase. for an s&p that rallied back above the 50-day moving average, only 35% of stocks can say that. >> it's always been like that. >> it's gotten much more pronounced over the last four weeks. >> is the oil story going to stick if oil is slowing down and what's the better scenario that oil picks up? >> it's such a good question. the roll is to hook at when the price action and news don't jive and when you look at how bearish the news has been, i would ask why is iron yore not breaking down, crude, copper. i have to wonder at some point

are the commodities anticipating china news to get less bad? the fact that they held up signals something should be changing there. >> what would you rather have? an inflationary picture for oil and other commodities or a slowdown in china that affects other parts of the globe? >> that's a tough one. i suppose the former, not the latter. i think the latter has the risk to be more systemic. i do think, joe, to your point, when you look at the move toward energy, it's come at consumer discretionary. there's a big shift going on there. in particular where you've seen that is europe. these european luxury stocks have come under a lot of pressure. i expect energy plays a roll there. >> what did we see yesterday? norvell nordisis bigger.

>> it's down 20 from the highs. homebuilders were untouchable stocks. they're down 15%. there's nothing untouchable in this market. >> thank you. >> isn't that the fat drug? >> it's ozempic doing that. but it's a separate story. chris, nice to see you. >> we're all going to be taking a dose of this. >> yes. we're all going to be micro dosing this stuff ten years from now. >> it will make its way into the water supply like everything else because so many people are using it say you've got a lot of work to do before we can even think about it. i calculated his bmi off the top of my head. >> bmi is a terrible measure of everything? >> why? >> bmi is a blunt instrument. i'm not talking about me. >> no, no, i'm happy. i hope it is. i hope it is because i don't

like mine and what it says about me. it hurts my viewpoint. >> chris, thanks for coming in. when we come back, we do have a busy hour. still to come, the u.s. ambassador to china, nick burns will join us live. then head of the app tie defamation league, jonathan glean ballot will join us on set over suing for defamation. let's take a look at yesterday's s&p 500 winners and losers. >> announcer: winners and losers is sponsored by state street global advisers. the biggest ideas inspire new ones.

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♪ ♪ wasting away in berkshire hathawayville searching for some good companies to buy ♪ >> that's the late singer-songwriter jimmy buffett. that was at the 2007 berkshire hathaway shareholder meeting. no, he was not related. they were longtime friends who happen to share a last name. jimmy got to know the late doris buffett, warren's sister in the 1980s when she was working on a genealogy profit. the two of them traveled to a south pacific island where the name is common. at doris's urging, he bought.

it eventually grew to his work with forest river, designing pontoon boats that are pretty cool. we've seen them. i spoke to jimmy buffett at the 2022 berkshire hathaway meeting and marketing the margaritaville brand and what he's learned about his cousin warren. >> you don't look a the business side of it. for a long time that was taken care of by managers and agents. i was a billboard reporter for years when nothing was happening and i learned from my editor bill williams what the music business and how that was stacked up. it was pretty much against the artist of having any kind of investment in the companies themselves. so as a reporter then and knowing warren, i just wanted to take care of my interest as i went forward. it started with buying my own

piano to take on the road as opposed to letting the promoter charge me two or three times the price of a piano that he would get. that started piano. >> warren buffett said he never knew anybody who never liked jimmy. he never said anything negative about anybody publicly or privately. he wasn't looking to convert himself to the practice. >> thinking back to the song that made him famous in margaritaville, were margaritas really popular before then? in my life they became a big part of -- that's my drink of choice. was it just as popular? >> do we credit margaritaville for? >> i don't snow. >> you know who the song was originally written for. elvis. elvis never sang it.

presley. costello. but think about what that song meant -- and the whole -- margaritaville. it's almost silly though. >> they have margaritaville retirement places where you can live now. it's his entire brand of things that go through it. >> 76. i know you think of a total geezer, but it's really prime of life. it's really unfortunate. i was just thinking about that, how if it had been elvis, not jimmy buffett, what would we be talking about with jimmy buffett? it was such a huge part of him. >> he launched his career pretty late. he wasn't through a lot of iterations. i think he was almost 40 before he hit it really big, almost 40 years ago. >> if your entire career is based on tropical places, that's a good way to be associated. >> people feel good. >> that's where you are all the time with the drums.

>> that's what i wanted to point out. jimmy never lost a fan. he built more and more fans over the years. like sometimes the music kind of moves away from a singer, but he's got young fans, older fans. he never lost a fan through any of it. jimmy buffett died over labor day weekend at the age of 76. we're going to take you out to a song he song in hong of doris buffett, but the message is pretty fitting too ♪ this one's for you it's for a love that grew ♪

welcome back to "squawk box." we're live at times square. dow looking to open under 0 points, s&p 500, 8.5 points. jim my buffett didn't drink mar rye tas. >> it was an austin restaurant that served him margaritas. a friend took him there before dropping him off to go back to florida and that's what inspired the whole song. >> he wrote it with elvis in mind but elvis died before jummy buffett -- i think 1977, the

same year that jimmy recorded it that elvis passed away previously. congresswoman gina raimondo says we're desperate for some dialogue. she joined jim cramer last night. >> u.s. businesses are practical, pragmatic. they do business in china. they to business all over the world in difficult places, but they do need a level playing field. they can't operate and think that there's going to be a raid on their business and they're not going to be told exactly what they did wrong. >> and our next guest played a key role in raimondo's trip to china. joining us u.s. ambassador to china, nicholas burns. thank you for joining us. i don't know if there's a more diplomatic post or a more difficult one. i always wanted to be an ambassador but i always talked

abou about balta. beautiful, tropical. your place, very intractable -- i don't know how you would approach it. i don't know how to acknowledge it. we're frenemies. we have to agree to disagree on certain things but we can't be isolated about it. >> good morning from beijing. it's great to talk with you. we have a difficult often contentious relationship with china, but a lot of our core national interests are involved, as you suggested, joe. certainly we're competing. we're competing for military power in the indo-pacific and for technology. that's capable of the heart of the battle in competition right now. it's commercial aspects but also the military applications. as secretary raimondo said last week, we need a more level playing field for american companies here in a nearly $700 billion two-way trade. obviously we have huge

philosophical disagreements on human rights, on religious freedoms. it's a very competitive relationship. what we're trying to do also as we compete with them is find places where our interests align. we're trying to work on climate change with them. we're trying to work on global health. trying to work on fentanyl. but we're not getting much help from the chinese because a lot of the precursor chemicals go into the drug cartel that make up fentanyl and that's a big issue because the leading cause of americans, age 18 to 49. it's a really complicated relationship where we're mainly on the offense of trying to block, trying to defend, and then trying to look for some areas to cooperate. >> it's -- i don't know whether you can really blame china for china for trying to, i don't know whether it's gain the system. but i was surprised to see, it's not even a high end country yet.

do you have a foal for what you thought unemployment is there, sir? we heard it's as high as 50%. when you walk around, is that possible? would you have the same type of disillusionment with the youth of china? i can't imagine what that would do to the social fabric of a country. >> well, the official youth unemployment rate is about 21%, and they decided last month they're going to stop publishing that figure, which tells you a lot, doesn't it? we think the rate might be higher because it's not capturing everyone who's out looking for a job. part of the problem here is the fact that the economy here has had a number of very serious challenges. they had a bad second quarter. their gdp productions are below where the chinese government thought they would be at the beginning of this year when they ended the covid zero policy. part of the problem has been the attack on the tech companies here because tech companies

employed a lot of young chinese who came out of their universities or our universities and are coming back to china. it's one of the many problems we have along -- that they have, excuse me, along with debt, along with declining exports to the united states and the rest of the world. they're facing severe economic headwinds here. >> ambassador, what do you make of the position we're hearing that government officials and the like will not be allowed to use apple iphones in china and is that a retaliation of sorts for some of the decisions that have been made by both federal agencies in the us state, around tiktok and other states as well? >> well, we just -- we just heard about this today. you mentioned it at the start of the program. it's part of what they want to do. they're trying to derisk. they're trying to diversify their supply chains. they criticize us for derisking.

they say, you've done the same thing and you started earlier than we did. so i think that's probably where it comes from. our derisk is very important and it's a important that secretary raimondo made very directly to the chinese leadership last week. she said two things that were important. first, we're not trying to decouple the american economy from the chinese economy. china's our third largest trade partner. there's too much at stake. 750,000 american jobs. she was clear about that. she also said we're going to derisk. we have looked at the advancement of semiconductors in china 11 months ago and she said to the chinese leadership last week, we're not going to compromise on that, it's not up for negotiation and we're going to continue that because we don't want to give the people's liberation army the qualitative military edge to compete and overtake us in terms of advanced military power in this century. so i thought she made both of those points very effectively, and we have not had a secretary

of commerce in china in five years. so she needed to deliver those messages and needed to stand up for the american business comm community. she heard a lot of complaints from american firms about opaque regulatory environmental, punitive actions against american firms, and this really ill-advised counterespionage law that has been so disquieting for american companies. so she really stood up for our economy last week, which is what she should do, and she did it really well. >> ambassador, how should folks of the united states and leaders of american businesses who did business in china think about this issue, which is if we're saying very explicitly we, the united states, are trying to derisk, are we okay with them derisking and diversifying their chain which may well afact

american businesses as well like apple? >> it's a good question. we've been very clear that we're derisking for national security reasons, to deny them this qualitative military edge technology. we're not derisking for economic purposes, competition purposes. we think we've got good firm ground to stand on. we're not so sure the chinese often do. their derisking supply chains is to completely dominate marketets. that's what they said 25 years ago when they passed the policy. so we don't buy a lot of what they're selling. we don't agree with their arguments. it's part of the dialogue now between our two governments. a lot of jousting, a lot of competition. we're trying to stand up for american business here, but in areas where our national security interests are not involved, there's a lot of room for american companies to be trading here, and we're trying

to defend the right to do that on an equal level playing field. >> we don't have much time left. maybe just a more commentary than a question, but if china accounted for 35% of the world's growth over the past 10, 15 years or 20 years, what we're seeing now is not good for china, not great for the world. but what do you attribute the slowdown to? the high debt levels, the building, the property sector, does it have to do with us pulling back? and obviously some of the stuff we're doing hasn't helped, but president xi also seemed to move away from what really was helping china come into the 21st century and that's free market and their own brand of capitalisming, and that seems to have taken kind of a u-turn there. >> well, it's certainly not because of us. our trade has increased with

china. $700 billion last year, that's the highest level we've ever had. it's not us. it's a confluence of factors, overreliance of growth on the property market and the bubble has burst there. it's rising debt levels. lot f it is chinese consumers sitting on their money because they have doubts about the economic strategy and doubting ab er -- doubting about the growth of the export. >> it's not a move sort of backtracking on market forces and being more of a, you know, sort of a state owned enterprise as a country and as a whole? >> i actually think that is part of it. there's a tension here and a contra contradiction. part of the government is saying to our businesses, weer open for business, we want want you to succeed, come in and invest. the other part is the national security state. that you're the ones, you know, detaining americans, exit bans, punitive actions against

american companies with no logical explanation, and that sends a different signal. what they've got to do is send one signal to the international community and our businesses, and that's not happening right now. that was one of the comments secretary raimondo needs. we need government action to reassure the american business community. >> we hope to be able to talk to you again. i don't know what the reaction is with china. that's what we worry about, what they've become more aggressive in terms of national security or less so, and maybe cooperate more with us. 13 for them. how many are left? we've got the run now. we'll talk more. thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you you very much. you bed. thank you. now to disney and a closer

look at ceo bob iger's position to pass the torch to bob chapek and his eventual return to the company. his latest story talks about his wild ride, choice back to chapek and the path for the company. tell us about this. >> this is a wild story really. some of it has been reported, but my piece digs into a lot of details that haven't between the broken down relationship between bob iger and bob chapek. really bob chapek's 2- 3/4-year term has been in question. if you're team igor, bob chapek was just the wrong person to run disney and he made a series of bad decisions and bob iger had instant regret on choosing him as a ceo. eventually 2- 3/4 years later,

he returns as ceo. if you're bob chapek, this is bob iger instantly wanting his job back and working for years behind the scenes to undermine him or passively undermine hum until he gots he job back. my story goes back, that fear in the back of bob chapek's mind. it defined many of the big decisions he made when he was ceo. >> meaning you think he made worse decisions because of the paranoia or real, depending on which team? by the way, which team are you on? >> i'm on both, i'm on everything. i think all of this is true at the same time, to be honest. i think there's no question that some of the decisions that bob chapek made were not the right decisions. you look at how he handled don't say gay. i don't know how anyone could say, oh, yeah, you handled that

great. but many say how disney handled scarlett johansson's movie. it came on cable and the meesh theater. what i dig into is that whole incident is sort of a leadership ch chasm. bob iger thinks chapek should be in control. chapek thinks bob iger should be in control. it's in the initial press release when igor hands it over to chapek. neither one is running this. and the whole way disney handled this where they outed her amount, each one pointed the finger. it's your problem, it's your problem, it's a testament of corporation dysfunction. >> meaning the business is

tough. the stock is 81. where was the stock when igor came back, do you know? >> it's come back. during bob scha peck's regime, the stock fell about 25%. >> how much did netflix fall in that same period? >> netflix as jumped back up in the last nine months. >> it's a difficult business and tough to navigate. >> i think the important thing to look at now, iger is back in the same position he was. he has to name another successor. >> but that hasn't been a panacea. >> not at all. he's 72 years old. he's going to have to pick someone he theoretically gets along better with. they're targeting early 2025 as a succession gate. he wants to stick around and usher the new person in like he did with bob chapek.

that brought about disaster. there were people that disagreed. they could turn to bob iger who was there. of course, the pandemic played a big role because nobody was in the office and they couldn't hash it out face-to-face. iger is going to need to find someone who's better in line. >> the seven dwarfs are now magical creatures. you don't think there's anything to that woke and broke? >> i mean on the edges, sure, but i do not think that was the crux of the problem. >> i miss -- >> announcer: executive edge is sponsored by at&t business. next level moments need the next level network. wn the alley. network's got you covered. [please confirm requesting back-up.] -changing route. -go. roadblock ahead. ...back up, back up... reverse! reverse! next level moments, we're 30 seconds out.

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welcome back to "squawk box." after the #bantheadl went viral on x, elon musk blaming the antidefamation league for causing revenue loss by accusing the platform of being anti-semitic. musk threatened to sue the adl for defamation if it continues, saying the adl was responsible for the company losing $22 billion in value. joining us now is jonathan gree greenblatt, antidefamation league's ceo. good morning to you. i thought you had a decent relationship with elon musk. we had a number of conversations over the last several months where you've come on and been supportive. what happened here? >> so, let's step back, right. so i had a meeting last week with lindy yaccarino, the new ceo of twitter at her request and we had a frank conversation. i tweeted out after that that we had a frank and productive

conversation as i have with elon musk in the past and that triggered a number of white supremacists to organize this hashtag campaign ban the adl. we regularly get attacked by the right and the left, but this campaign went viral very quickly with white supremacists, you know, hardened antisemites and people spreading it across the service and it literally was a trending topic over the course of the weekend. >> do you fundamentally believe that elon musk is antisemitic. >> i've never set elon musk was anti-semitic. i've been on the show and set i don't think he's anti-semitic. hate speech is the price of free speech, but let's acknowledge that when elon musk and the platform bring people, hardened antisemites back on, when they validate their rantings, when they allow it to spread, like,

andrew, here's the thing, i have to deal with this as head of the adl the real world consequences. so just put this in context. in the last few years, we have seen a historic rise of anti-semitic acts of harassment, vandalism, violence. over the past month, we have seen dozens and dozens of swattings of synagogues, bomb threats against institutions. this past weekend we had nazis march out in the open in florida. it looked like a scene from charlottesville. so, the truth is is that our community is vulnerable. people are on edge. and when elon musk is amplifying these people, like, it's very problematic. >> how out there are you, publicly and behind the scenes, talking to advertisers and telling them do not advertise on this platform? are you doing that? >> we are not out there, publicly or privately talking to advertisers. they will make the decisions that they want to.

frankly it is true we did call for a pause, back in november, after the acquisition. and then since then, since that initial statement, what we are doing is engaging with the management of the company, trying to help them make it better. >> if you have any conversations with lindy yaccarino since this weekend? >> we exchanged text messages. >> and -- >> look, it's hard for me to understand exactly what's happening over there. i understand they had a big business problem. i mean, elon tweeted something i didn't know that the advertising revenue is down 60%, but, look, brands are big boys and girls. they will make their own decisions. i mean, let's be clear here, like, this is the wealthiest man in the world, running one of the most powerful media platforms on the planet. we're a nonprofit here in new york. so i think figuring out, like who has the power in this

relationship is pretty clear to me. >> jonathan, how do you rectify two things, zero tolerance for anti-semitism, zero tolerance for diluting the first amendment. how do you do it? you can't. >> well, i think there are things you can do, right. i think you can choose to amplify or deamplify -- >> should crazy white supremacists, nazis, be able to march? >> of course they should be able to march. the adl defended the right -- >> but it seems like it -- >> but maybe they shouldn't march right in front of the synagogue on a saturday morning. like, there are ways we can have free speech and open dialogue. >> free speech for everything unless it is costing the advertising revenue? >> well, look, maybe elon has his own view of free speech. i can't explain what's going on in his head. >> linda yaccarino in person, what did you speak about? >> we talked about what she's

trying to do with the platform and what they want to do in terms of make it a safe place, a better place, a healthier place, for advertisers, for users, and i deeply agree with that. that's a better thing, not just for her and the business, better thing for the world if twitter, this really important service -- >> i can't understand where the hate came in, there is a lot of hate out there unfortunately and i'm jewish, so i feel that, but the hate that elon musk seemed to direct towards you, i'm trying to understand what might have happened at that meeting or not -- >> i wonder how much -- maybe it is jonathan greenblatt related, not adl related. >> i don't know. i'm not running a fan club here. my job is to keep jewish people safe and that's really disturbing. we had a frank and productive conversation. and not only did i tweet it out positively, she replied to my tweet. >> did she say to you that advertisers weren't coming back because you were telling them not to? >> no, i didn't hear that at all. i can't explain that. i'm not engaged in a dialogue

with advertisers about twitter. what i am engaged in is keeping jewish people safe. that's what adl is doing seven days a week. >> i know this has been a critique of your organization and of many, were you seeking to have some kind of either role at twitter or any kind of donations made or other things? >> no. >> i only say that because there have been folks that looked at these situations and felt they were being shaken down. >> look, i think, let be honest about that, i think it is anti-semitic trop to suggest when jewish people express a degree of outrage over anti-semitism, that somehow that's a shakedown because jews are greedy. that sounds to me -- i'm not saying you believe that -- >> i'm just saying that that is the -- occasionally you hear the critique among not for profits in certain cases that are involved in certain causes that talk to companies and you hear it from leaders who say i feel like -- >> i hear that, but my view on all of this, we talked about

this before on the show, i don't believe -- this is to you, joe, i don't believe in cancel culture, i believe in counsel culture. what we tried to do over the years with twitter, with youtube, with facebook and all of its platforms, with reddit, with discord, i can go on and on, is to work with them, to make -- i'm trying to understand what led to this -- whatever is happening here. that's why i asked that. >> i think elon is a complicated person. i can't explain what prompted those tweets, but what i can see is the spread of toxic anti-semitism. don't take my word for it. just look at this hashtag campaign. look at what people are posting. see what they are saying. it is ugly and at a time when jewish people are vulnerable, we have the jewish holidays of rosh t roshhoshona in a few weeks.

>> thank you. appreciate it. "squawk box" coming right back after this. and grit in the world... ...can't overcome the boundaries we face. ( ♪♪ ) so morgan stanley is partnering with the women's tennis association to remove them. ( ♪♪ ) because this game is for everyone. ( ♪♪ )

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back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc. live at the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm andrew ross sorkin with becky quick and joe kernen. let's show you the u.s. equity futures at this hour. right now the dow off about 70 points. nasdaq down 45 points and the s&p 500 looking to open down about 11 points. let's show you treasuries as well. we have been talking about which way that board should start with the 30-year, maybe start with the two-year, 4.945%. and the ten-year, 4.246%. all right. get to dom chu. we'll look at this morning's premarket movers. you know who's going to be on the set today, dom? >> who is going to be on the set today? >> just someone -- someone that you want to tune in for. that's all i'm going to say. he's on the set right now. you're going to love the

interview. i want you -- i want -- stay tuned later too. >> that's one heck of a tease. i will -- >> i've always been called a big tease. >> first of all, i always pay attention to your show. i cannot wait to see what is going to happen with regard to your big interview here. let's get to your morning movers, first of all. we have an analyst upgrade to talk about first, which is driving shares of constellation higher by about 1% right now. this is the company behind modelo. a lot of beer and spirits brands. td cowan and their analysts upgrading it to an outperform from prior market perform. target price up to $300. it was $240. and they like some of the trends that are emerging with regard to beer growth at the portfolio with constellation, specifically with the modelo oreo label and also some of the profit margin and improvement that could happen because of the reaccelerating beer growth. that upgrade helping constellation in the tune of 1% in the premarket. we're watching shares of roku, which are really accelerating in the premarket trade here, up 8%

now. this is the streaming devicemaker company, sticks you put behind your tv to get all the streaming channels. this company is now announcing that it will update its current quarter revenue forecast to the upside. it is also unfortunately announcing a 10% workforce reduction, those two moves in concert with each other along with updated pretax income guidance is helping roku shares up by 8% right now. we'll watch those. a check on the broader oil market as well. what we're seeing is a retreat from the highest levels for prices for u.s. benchmark west texas intermediary prices we have seen over the course of the last nine, ten months. november 15th is the last time we saw prices as high as yesterday. we pulled back below $87, $ $86.32. the energy sector spider showing

some stability now, down .1%. the oil majors exxonmobil and chevron just about unchanged to about down .1%. we'll keep an eye on oil and energy prices as well, becky. i'll send things back over to you. >> all right, dom, thank you very much. >> i'll be tuning in. >> and now the interview you've all been waiting for. gas giant enbridge announcing it will be buying three utilities from dominion energy and $9.4 billion acquisition making it the largest natural gas provider in north america and joining us now with the details of that deal is greg ebel. welcome. >> thank you, becky. great to be here. >> great to see you. there has been so much kind of thought around what is happening with natural gas. a lot of regulators getting involved, people trying to push bans on this. that is what you looked out and dominion saw and said we're going to see about selling some of these. that's why they wanted to sell it. why did you look at that and say this is a great opportunity? >> you know, we have been long

believers in an all of the above approach. writ large what is happening in europe in the last 18 months, everybody needs natural gas, there is no positive energy future from a sustainability perspective or affordability perspective without gas. we have been in the gas utility business and now this will create the largest platform for natural gas utilities in north america. so we're very excited. and there are jurisdictions to do exactly opposite what you were saying. they have smart regulators and smart policymakers that realize theconsumers want choice and they want sustainability. and this really is just a great opportunity for us and our shareholders and we'll continue to be able to grow the dividends going forward. >> you think you got a better price because of all of the concern of what regulators were doing. you think you're able to be opportunistic here. >> there aren't very many people that can come across and buy in three individual states with the financial wherewithal to do that. i think you're right, maybe a little bit of a contrarian play

on some of this. from our perspective, from some other perspectives. and i think you had a buyer motivated to focus on other things and largely on electricity side of things. and that created opportunity for us as well. so, when you already run gas utilities, when you run gas pipelines, and liquids pipelines, it fits our portfolio extremely well. >> you're not looking to diversify as some energy companies are doing it at this point, you're figuring we're going to do what we know best and double down on it? >> we think the future of oil is through and out of north america. the future of natural gas is through north american exports. without a doubt as you see population growth and sustainability, and you see the need for that consumer choice, we're going to do all of those things. i think what you're seeing is some of the energy players are really just focusing on a single area. i think that's probably not the way to go. again, i think you'll see smart regulators, smart policymakers and smart consumers focusing on

making sure they can achieve sustainability goals as well as economic goals. >> you pointed out that this is in states where regulators are not considering some of the things that have been done in some states. this is ohio. where else? >> ohio, north carolina and utah. in fact, despite some of the rhetoric you hear, over 30 states in the united states have actually banned the ban. in other words, they passed legislation or regulations saying, no, you have to allow consumers the choice to be able to use natural gas. it is clean. it is abundant and it is cheap. so, you know, again, despite some of the rhetoric, this is very much in line with what consumers want and it will create a lot of value for us going forward, it will take us to 25 to get it in the barn and we'll drive forward. i think it is a bit of a super bowl if you will of utilities. >> you worry at all just on the idea of betting billions of dollars on the idea that you're going to have elections and legislators go your way? >> yeah, i think we'll look at -- i would say these are

random purple states. i think it is more about what do consumers want. i think politicians, they know that each consumer is a voter and they know that sustainability is important for them and natural gas is a clean and critical element of the energy transition. but they know affordability, particularly in environment where you've got inflation, environment where energy costs are top of mind for people, natural gas creates a really great opportunity from that perspective. it is the front end, all of these assets will be used for things like as the hydrogen economy kicks in, as renewable natural gas kicks in from landfills and such, these assets are the exact same assets that will be utilized. we have been at enbridge delivering gas to consumers for 175 years. you think of all the changes in the economy, in the energy over that time, and we continue to grow that business each and every year, which allowed us to increase the dividend every year for the last three decades. >> thank you for joining us this morning. >> great, thank you. >> greg ebel, ceo of enbridge.

up next, from wall street to washington. we'll look at the issues that matter most to your money, including a preview of the second gop presidential debate that is scheduled for later this month. "squawk box" will be right back. an online food delivery service. business was steady, until... gogo-foodco. go check it out. whaatt?! overnight, users tripled. which meant hiring 20 new employees - and buying 20 new laptops. so she used her american express business card, which gives her more membership rewards points on her business purchases. somebody ordered some laptops? cynthia suarez. cfo. mvp. built for cynthia's business. built for your business. amex business. people are excited about what ai will do for them. we're excited about what ai will do for business. introducing watsonx a platform designed to multiply output by tailoring ai to your needs. when you watsonx your business, you can build ai to help coders code faster, customer service respond quicker, and hr handle repetitive tasks in less time.

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christie joined cnbc's "last call" to talk about a hot topic for investors, spending at the federal level. >> we have to get federal spending under control. the fact that joe biden was out there yesterday, labor day, touting that he's reduced the deficit while he's doubled the deficit from one year to the next is, you know, outrageous lie on his part. the fact is that spending has never been worse. >> joining us now as we inch closer, mike alan, co-founder of axios. was talking about -- who was your partner to throw that party? >> it was a great party. thank you for coming. >> somebody knew what was going on to throw such an unbelievable party. i can't believe it was you and axios. who was your partner? >> we'll come back to that. you're the future multibureau chief. >> exactly.

here's where we are. i had jared bernstein on yesterday. and jared came on and he was talking about bottoms out, bottoms up, tops down. one out of three americans think that the economy is going well or that biden is doing a good job. he continues to just ignore that and say i'm reducing the deficit, i added x amount -- and americans aren't buying that. do you detect that? >> housing prices and a couple of things i can tell you the white house is really worried about is, one, an auto strike, which i can tell you both sides tell me they think it is more likely than not when the uaw contract expires september 14th. nathan bowie who covers autos for us, do they pick one of the big three or go against all of the big three? a big problem for the administration. second, more and more concerns

about a government shutdown, also ripple effects for the economy. axios has a scoop this morning from capitol hill saying that speaker mccarthy has a lot of minds he's going to have to dodge if he's going to keep the gavel. what does that mean? that means a shutdown is more likely because he needs to worry about his right flank. it is going to be harder to make a deal with president biden or senate democrats. >> you're down in the weeds. let's talk big picture here. how -- >> shutting down the government is not the weeds. >> when you talk about -- okay. here's where we are. we got someone that i don't know whether it is the dems are pushing for donald trump, but you've got someone who partisan -- what are you doing? >> i'm listening. >> partisan republicans, primary voters are going to back in, much less clear whether overall he can win a general election and another person that most

democrats think is too old to run. how do we get here? when are we going to get back to having two candidates that both people say i can live with either one? we got right now most people saying i can't live with either. why? why are we here? >> no, it is true the rerun and what is fascinating is my conversations behind the scenes, both sides, very confident. you talk to the west wing, they go in and democrats are warning them, things aren't as good as you think and they say, like, trump craziness, plus the abortion issue, they feel very confident based on that. >> that's just -- it is a default to someone that thinks is way too old and probably can't effectively govern for another four years starting two years from now. you think he's going to be the nominee? you don't think as we get closer that he doesn't want to admit it now because he would be a lame duck, but you don't think he's getting pressure from democrats to -- >> that's two different questions. one, there is zero sign of that.

but second, of course, like, democrats are, of course, antsy behind the scenes about this. like, there is a lot of people wishing they had started sooner, it is too late for someone to take him on, but they recognize that there is real issues here and that's why -- >> vice president harris, right or wrong is probably one of the least popular vice presidents that we had. everyone realizes it is a breath away from being in the white house, in the second term, right? >> the white house is being very intentional about repositioning her, giving her more of a profile because they know a lot of the campaign is going to be about her. republicans are going to say, based on actuarial tables, if we're voting for president biden, you're voting for vice president harris. >> you want to bring it back to the weeds? >> by the way, andrew, i'm wearing my -- >> how did you sleep last night? >> very well. i was trying --

>> nervous about coming on? >> by the way, live nation put on a great party. >> that was a great party. >> that's what you were texting, figuring out? >> i was going to mention, i didn't want to. >> i thought you -- >> because this is a business network, i want to talk money ball with you, the politics of which gop candidates you think actually have real money that will keep them in this race or for longer, which is to say, desantis clearly has the most, vivek out there who has got -- he loaned his campaign a bunch of money, nikki haley has got a bit of money out of this last -- after this last debate, how do you see that and how do you see that on a relative basis to where the president is? >> so, the president and axios had a scoop yesterday, we're going to see a big ad on this economic record thursday and all the swing states, nfl kicks off. on the republican side, it is

just like in polling, it is president trump, former president trump and everyone else. nikki haley, i'm told, from both sides, from both coasts, after the debate, got a lot of calls from people who said i want to do an event for you, republicans who liked the practical way she talked about abortion. i can tell you a lot of democrats who watched her in the debate and said if somehow she were the opponent against trump, against biden, that would be very difficult to take on. so a lot of conversation about her. a lot of conversation about senator tim scott, who has a lot in the bank, has a pac that has been spending more, i think he's the third biggest on tv after biden and trump. >> after this next debate, we showed you the big list, how does that shakedown? do you think you get down to six candidates, down to three? in terms of a calendar and everything else and this goes to the money issue. >> fascinating part of the calculus is what trump needs is a lot.

trump wants them to stay in. the more that it is a split field, the better off he is. he knows really the only way at this point that he could lose new hampshire would be if there were one candidate that people are coalescing and there is no sign of that. no movement in that direction. and no real incentive. >> nobody has to drop out at this point, do they? to andrew's point, the money will eventually be an issue. how and when? when does the money become a factor you start knocking people out? >> right. after the first couple of states when you need to run in multiple states, once that gets very expensive. in the first couple of states, as you know, i've been in those states with all of you, the coverage can carry you for a long time. and people in the state want to raise -- >> is it productive to talk about anyone other than trump? 60% of the primary voters. >> does he ever do a debate?

>> he will do a debate, if it got down to someone who could threaten him. but right now -- >> will that happen? >> right now no incentive to do it. >> where do you put the odds of him being the nominee right now? 80%? >> plus, plus. >> 80% plus? >> of course. something dramatic, lightning would have to hit this race -- >> like an indictment? >> for something else to -- trump says indict me one more time, then i clinched it. >> thus far, the view is, let's say it is trump/biden. where do you think the business community is? right now the business community has been relatively quiet about everything because it is not -- it not has been in their favor to do so. privately, you talk to a lot of the folks too, what do you think actually happens? do you think they say nothing, no position in any of this, if it gets down to it, do you think they stand up and say, you know, we don't like this, but we're doing this, nothing? >> well, but then standing out like it would be no help in a

republican primary, right? i think -- i would be interested in what you're hearing. i think you'll have a lot of business people who voted republican all their life who vote for president biden, like, what do you hear? >> that's what i'm hearing. but i think there is a question mark about whether they'll say it out loud. some would want to. >> i think it is more -- >> there is others that say they want to return to the policies of the trump administration. but it would come with all the baggage. >> but i have a reality check for them and that is they can vote quietly. the party is not changing. the party is not flipping back. people think it will switch back today in new hampshire. vice president pence giving a speech, a preview on axios, this morning where he's going to talk about conservatism versus populism and he's talking about a more reagan-esque, george w. bush republican party. but the data show, the polls

show it, that is not where the gop is right, now. >> it could be like jeb bush was a front-runner but he obviously wasn't. is there anything analogous to where trump is and previous elections where someone comes out of nowhere, it doesn't seem possible. it doesn't seem like anyone can catch fire. maybe desantis at one point. what happened over the last three months -- >> they have said that trump -- the consistency, the distance, no one has overcome that. >> that's why when we talk about who is going to drop out who is next, it is, like, it seems luke a moot point. >> kellyanne conway had the word, she called the last debate the undercard and that's the problem. you have a debate when the most relevant person isn't on the stage. >> thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> live nation. >> live nation. >> we'll be right back. time now for today's aflac trivia question. what u.s. town was the first to be lit by electricity? the answer when cnbc's "squawk

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the answer, wabash. moderna out with news this morning regarding its covid-19 vaccine. the company said clinical trial data shows its updated covid-19 vaccine will likely be effective against the highly mutated ba.2.86. i guess that's how you say it. subvariant. subvariant of the coronavirus. it raised fears of a resurgence of infections. we need a new name for that. something a little better than ba.2.86. the shot provided an increase in antibodies of the variant being tracked by the organization in the u.s. centers for disease control and prevention. and angela peoples joins us with more. i guess that's good. does it mean you won't get

covid? >> it means it will protect you against severe disease, excuse me, and death, which is the most important as we have all seen people have gotten covid vaccines and still have gotten covid. it is the nature of respiratory viruses. they're hard to vaccinate against and prevent infection it itself. but the important thing here is it will protect you from the most serious forms of the disease. >> what about previous infections? won't that probably protect you from death or the most serious? >> that might help too. the message this year from all the public health officials -- >> the natural immunity is probably equivalent to this or no? this is better? >> what we have today is data showing this vaccine is effective and that's what's most important, i think, going into this fall. >> okay. when it comes out, it is going to be competing against the same companys? >> yes, pfizer and novavax is seeking authorization for a booster as well and we're expecting that approval any day now.

next week the outside advisers to the cdc are meeting to review their recommendations. and tell us all, you know, who should get the shots, and when. and so we should see those shots start to roll out as soon as this month. >> i'm wondering if we can tell anything about how it is going to be received by the population based on the stock prices. the stock prices -- >> investors are skeptical that people will want these vaccines. i was looking at the booster data and only 17% of americans got the most recent booster. >> 17%. >> 17%. and, you know, some public health officials were saying that was because last year was confusing with the bivalent booster and the flu shots and this year might be smoother, but just talking to people in my own life and i'm sure you hear the same thing, people seem to be really over it. however, hospitalizations and deaths are on the rise. we're seeing the summer surge, so that might get some people thinking about covid again. but we'll have to see. >> important for elderly.

>> even scott gottlieb said that, we should have done it that way the first time probably more for people with co-morbidities, the elderly, people that have, you know, reason for concern probably this makes more sense. >> and we did see last year that older people did get the booster in bigger numbers, i think it was about 40% of elderly did get a booster as opposed to far fewer young people. so, that's good to see. and we'll have to see exactly what the recommendations look like and what the messaging is to get people out. >> anjelica, welcome. >> thank you. >> great to be here. >> when we come back, on the other side of this, taking on tiktok. montana's ban on the social media platform going into effect this january, but it now faces a slew of legal challenges and could go all the way to the supreme court. and the state's attorney general and architect behind the ban is going to be our special guest after this. don't miss this conversation.

just as china is banning its officials from using apple phones. meantime, boosting board room diversity, new polls showing that americans overwhelmingly support initiatives aimed at increasing corporate diversity. why it could lead to greater profitability and inknow vaca innovation. we'll talk about that next on "squawk box." d deliver solutions that meet complex needs. massmutual. partnering with financial professionals, benefits brokers, and institutions. ( ♪♪ ) morgan stanley is partnering with the women's tennis association to remove boundaries... ( ♪♪ ) because this game is for everyone.

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box." topics of equity and inclusion are talked about every day in corporate america. dei issues are ending up in the middle of the nation's political debates. joining us now is dr. tony colus, ceo and executive chairman, serves on the boards of kesson and regeneron. and charles philips here, all-star cast, co-founder and managing partner of investing firm recognize. good morning to both of you. you put together or really i should say commissioned harris to do a poll for you about this issue specifically, especially at a time where i think questions about dei, about all sorts of other social issues in the context of business have become a target, if you will, and the results, i think are

surprising at least surprising to me given a lot of the rhetoric we hear. >> well, what the polls showed and this was done by the foundation was that about 78% of americans support companies taking active steps to ensure the employee population reflects diversity. we know there is a lot of data to suggest that business benefits from diversity and diversity really matters. what we know is there is a 35% better chance of outperforming financially when you have top quartile diversity. companies that actually have diverse management teams and diverse employee bases have a 78% improvement in innovation-related revenue with new products and services. when i started as a junior executive, we didn't have this data. now we have hard concrete data endata. >> do you think this issue has

gotten tied up, caught up or in the context of the word woke? a lot of people i think have now put this in the same bucket. >> that's why when we did the poll, we didn't want to use the term dei or woke, just asking about ethnicity and diversity and what was the surprise to me was 74% of republicans thought corporate america should reflect the demographics of the country and 81% of white americans. i expects democrats and other groups to do that. it is consistent across however you cut the data, everybody wants the same thing. >> what do you think, now that you looked at this poll, what do you think the poll is suggesting that the public wants companies to do? and i also ask that in the context, by the way, we have had new conversations given the supreme court around legacy admissions at universities, a whole view that may come to corporate america very soon if it hasn't already. put that in some kind of context for us. >> there is something interesting about the poll results which i do think surprised people. we know that 78% of americans

support companies taking active steps. they want to see programming initiatives that actually diversify the employee base, address the customer needs and improv improving customers and that tracks to innovation. these findings held up across generation and age lines, racial and ethnic lines, and party affiliation with at least two-thirds of the respondents, independent of party affiliation, believing that diversity is a very good thing. >> the board is the way to go. thinking about that. i think about still the -- very rare in the s&p 500, a person of color is the ceo, you can't do it until you -- chicken and egg thing, you have to do the board first and then the selection process that becomes more -- >> the weird math on that -- >> how else do you do it? >> the weird math is you can look at some of the most diverse

boards in america -- it is not a causal thing. it is -- right? >> back to the original form of hiring to begin with, if you're not hiring diverse people, you're not going to have that. interesting thing in the data, you ask people what percentage of the fortune 500 ceos were black, they thought 19 to 20%. not even close to that. >> like 2%. >> like 2%. >> they think it should be higher. >> therefore, both of you are on a number of boards, how do you think hiring -- how do you think about hiring and how do you think about considering race as part of the hiring process? >> let's go back to your point about the board room. there are actually data quite similar to the management team and employee-based data to suggest that diverse boards deliver better performance, financial performance, about 35% improvement in terms of overall profitability. i think the data is very clear. if we then think a little bit about what this means for both the bottom line and for how

americans think about this, we really have to continue to drive our focus behind diversity. >> for the boards, being measured and we have to get past that point, people don't want to collect the data, it is a bad thing to talk about it, now we're collecting data and we make decisions on how you want to be after that and have goals over tame. this is your talent base and your customer base you're talking about, you want to know what the demographics are over time. >> does it take 20 years where you have to hire people and make sure they're able to populate every area of the company, learn the company? >> the theory is you hire someone entry level employee, it is a while before they get to be ceo and promoted. you have to be track and measuring and seeing how you're promoting people and where they need help. the companies that have been publishing that data, the ones in the survey, that's how we got the survey done, it has been helpful for them to make decisions going forward. >> charles, tony, thank you for joining us. >> good to see you.

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news out earlier this morning. just hours ago from the european commission. it is designating 22 core businesses of six companies as what it is calling gate keepers of online services. the firms are alphabet, amazon, apple, meta, microsoft and tiktok, owner of bytedance. steve kovach joins us with more on what this all means. >> this is a big one, andrew. the european union is setting targets for this top new regulations at big tech, the digital markets act. today the european is designated so-called gate keepers and services, 22 of them, they provide, that will be subject to the new law starting as soon as march of next year. it is all the companies you expect. apple, alphabet, meta, microsoft, bytedance, and amazon, all impacted by this. and wide variety of services from each of those names. for example, apple will have to allow other third party app stores on the iphone, google will have to give users the option to use other search

engines like bing, and amazon won't be able to favor its own products in search results over third party products. this is still being decided. apple's imessage and microsoft's bing, you can message people using other apps. but apple and microsoft are still quibbling over the designation for those two services. apple spokesperson tells me it views imessage as a private security platform and apple provides users with the option to use other messaging apps instead. we have a long way to go, more debating to happen as the tech companies push back on these designations. >> they're going to court. >> they're going to court or fight it -- so right now, for example, they haven't been able to -- they meaning the european commission -- hasn't been able to decide if imessage qualifies for this. they're quibbling over that. they can have a more subjective view if they want to. whether or not -- gmail, not on this list.

they said that's not a gatekeeper, doesn't necessarily direct people to other google products the way some of google search might. so it is all -- >> i would like to make a plea to the tech companies. the one thing i want, a unified inbox for all email, all messages. >> they used to do that. >> everything in one place. everybody is living in their own wall to wall garden. >> executives came out in a court proceeding with that epic games lawsuit, they basically said, we don't want to put imessage on android or other platforms. that keeps people upgrading iphones. they're going to fight this technology and nail on the app store front, protecting profits, high margins they get when they take a cut from everyone. spotify up today, praising this. >> i don't care if you use your imessage on android. one box. >> you don't like the green bubbles -- >> i don't. i want one box. give me one box. >> okay. good luck. >> when i get a green bubble, i'm, like, what's wrong with this person? do they not have an iphone?

>> usually not. >> iphone users are not very tolerant. >> coming up, montana attorney general is going to be on. austin knudsen, knudsen, joins us to talk about the state's push to ban social media. get the best of -- get the best of "squawk box" in our daily podcast. ua p oyo fore podcast app. y day, businesses everywhere are asking: is it possible? with comcast business... it is. is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? we can help with that. can we provide health care virtually anywhere? we can help with that, too. is it possible to survey foot traffic across all of our locations? yeah! absolutely. with the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from comcast business. it's not just possible. it's happening. you know doug, ever since switching to workday you've been a real rock star.

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welcome back, everybody. our next guest is at the center of a national debate on banning tiktok in the united states. we want to welcome montana attorney general austin knudsen, his first of the kind state law banning the app wein. >> sir, thank you for being with us today. >> you bet. thanks for having me. >> this is the most out there in the nation ban. as a result it's being looked at as a battle front. i know you described yourself as a long time as a chan ina hawk? what pushed things in your state? >> we started getting a lot of complaint from the department of justice. we received a number of complaints not just about tiktok but about several of the social

media countries and their data collection policies. but the more we dug into tiktok, the more concerned we became. a lot of information we found was not public. a lot of it have is. a lot of it they tell you right in their operating agreement what information they're going to gather. there is no opt-out provision with tiktok. they're going to scan your video and they grab your key strokes. they do all that without your permission. we started looking at the spying application, some of the ways that bite dance and tiktok were using their algorithm to track people. these became very concerning things for us in montana. >> you tried to get some feedback and how things were

happening behind the scenes. you weren't very satisfied with the answers you got? >> we're not. we're a little itty bitty state. we don't have a large office here. i think tiktok thought they could blow us off. it didn't start getting to a head until our legislation started moving. even then they really didn't take it seriously until the state legislate cleared the state senate and got to the statehouse. then i think they started getting a little more concerned. the first tranche of data was not terribly forthcoming. >> what happens next? the concern for anybody who looked at this is a little too narrow. it may not stand up under the legal pressures. do you tailor it any way to get through some of those? >> we absolutely did tailor it.

i would be lying if i said we didn't think this was going to get challenged. we knew we were going to have legal battles and that was part of our calculus. we designed u.s. in a way we think it will stand. we have our first hearing on a preliminary injunction i believe on october 12th in federal court here in montana and we're going to find out. i think there are some novel questions here that we actually need the federal courts to weigh in on. that was part of our calculus here for sure. >> attorney general, something occurred to me. i'm going to throw you a total curveball. you got a million people. what did you make of the decision that i don't know how many people are in china and india but do you think that montana's 1 million people should be held or at least have something it do with the global

warming? who was the judge that decided that. is that going to hold up? did you think that was sort of a reasonable outcome for that suit? >> no, i don't. i think it was a cherry picked judge who had a predetermined outcome. we had language in our constitution that allowed her to get to that outcome unfortunately. i think when you look at whether or not global warming is a manmade thing or not, you have to look at who is pumping the carbon out into the atmosphere. it's not little montana. >> a million people versus 3 billion between india and china alone. it's not like there's a carbon right above your state and -- >> but that's not what the decision said, right? the decision was specific to the

idea that it could be considered, not that it had to be decided upon that way but that it could be allowed to be included in the thought process and they could still come to the conclusion they want to go ahead with drilling or what not. is that an accurate reading of what was said there? >> i think the way our state department of environmental quality is now interpreting this ruling is that they now have to consider man-made climate change when issuing any permit. and the reason when that's concerning is when you've got a small state like we are, large geographic, small population, how do we scientifically quantify what our fingerprint on manmade global warming is in a state like this? that's the concern here. i think this is going to cause a lot of litigation. this is going to cause every time our state issues a gravel permit, they're going to get

challenged. >> just to qualify because you used air quotes, do you not believe that climate change is man made at all? >> i think the science is definitely not settled. >> all right. >> attorney general, thank you for joining us. we'll be watching what happens with tiktok and we appreciate your checking in. >> thanks. >> when we come up, a big hour ahead. you do not want to miss this. delta ceo ed bastian will join us with a business update and leader mohamed el-erian joins us and maybe we have a little surprise for you. "squawk box" back right after this.

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this morning more economists lowering recession expectations. steve liesman is reading the signs. and reading the consumer. does the retail industry have the right products and what's going on with leadership inside the sector? all big questions for mickey drexler. and delta ceo ed bastian will be our guest. he's got some news to break and

he's bringing along a very special guest. i promise you, you do not want to go anywhere. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now. good morning. welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc, live from the nasdaq market site here in times square. we are in the red a little bit today. the s&p down about 10, nasdaq down about 31 points or so. oil prices are higher than they've been. and here's the treasurys.

below 5% on the 2-year. do you know what tomorrow is, becky? >> thursday. >> yup. i think there's a football game. >> oh, is it the first game? thursday night? >> it is, lions and chiefs. that's just an aside. >> we saw rutgers did so well. >> i did, i bet on rutgers. i had a bet on it. i had duke. did you see what duke did? i did. and the under on duke. and i also have florida state. you. >> had everybody. >> i did. the european commission is designating 22 core businesses of six companies as gatekeepers of online services. alphabet, amazon, apple, meta and bite dance will be required to make their messaging apps operable with rivals and let users decide which app to

install. the fcc is reportedly gearing up to file a lawsuit after lawyers offered no concessions in talks with agency officials in a search over settlements over anti-trust claims. and china ordered government officials not to use iphones or foreign devices for work or even bring them into the office. it's the latest step in beijing's campaign to cut reliance on foreign technology and enhance cyber security. with more and more economists lowering their outlook for recessions, the question is what happened to the tried and true indicator that was known as the yield curve inversion? senior economics reporter steve liesman joins us with a look of how it could be different this time. we thought this was definitely

going to be an indicator of a recession to come but so far no dice. >> it was a pandemic here. the inversion of the 2-year yield spread could still end up working but time is running out and recession is increasing by not in the forecast of many wall street forecasts. the key is to think of an inversion -- it's not a magical divining rod, it's an indicator of cause of financial stress and many of those causes don't exist, they're flashing nor yellomore yellow than red at this point. delinquencies are higher but remain below the average of 2019. consumer real estate depth and retail delinquencies are lower. they're all well below the 2009

levels that was really stressful. corporate bonds, a potential source of concern, they've been pretty well behaved. rates are higher for corporate borrowers but the spread over treasuries has narrowed. as the fed hikes rates, banks have to pay more for deposits. that prompts a pullback in lending. that hasn't happened through the first quarter where we have data for where interest margins held steady but you can see from that chart usually when those rates spike, net interest margins collapse. there's still time at the old yield curve to eat away at the economy but there is a chance

for it to maybe be different. you don't like to say that but that's the course we on now. >> steve, eventually you're going to get a recession again at that point. at that point does everybody say we proclaimed it, it's been a hard time. the guy at duke who originally proposed all of this said this time is a little different, too. >> i'm glad he did that. i feel way better about this. it was several months ago. i think i remember that. we're still in the zone, becky. sometimes it happens as soon as 13 months, sometimes it's takes 20, 30 months. something that happens 20 or 30 months later is not really useful for investors. i've been looking at this new york fed recession probability index and it is the highest it's been. it's like 80%.

and according to this one, we are real close to a really bad recession, but that's the ten-year, three-month spread and it is not really working this time. so you've got to sort of look into the numbers. people think of this as some kind of magic -- i don't know, like a bad omen or something. it's not that. it's showing you financial stress and creating financial stress by itself so you got to look into the numbers and figure out are these things all flashing red or yellow? right now there's some yellow on the board, not a whole lot of red. >> it's been predicted ten of the last two recession, right? >> it's a little better than that but it has been wrong before. >> steve, thank you. >> let's bring in lisa eriksson, the head of public market group at u.s. bank. and earlier we were talking

about oil and crude prices and what the ripple effects could mean for inflation, for the fed and even for the stock market. and i guess if we're at the high end of a range, maybe we can deal, 86 because it going back down to 75or so? but what if it's on its way higher because of supply or because of a strong economy or maybe because china's not as bad as people think. does that present a problem for policy makers and for the fed? >> well, good morning. to your point oil is certainly something we're going to want to keep app eye on. one of the things we've been watching overall is what we're calling the last mile of the inflation fight. we've made really good progress since the second half of 2022, but again, some of that remaining price pressure may be a little bit harder to abate and then you have items like oil and energy, which can spike up for various reasons.

we have pressure there because russia and saudi arabia have extended their cuts and to the extent we get a little bit more of a soft landing, that's going to keep demand up. so certainly that energy price trajectory is something we want to continue to monitor. >> you think that -- and that was the point we're making. that is becoming the narrative that the easy work on inflation has been done and now it's going to get harder and harder. if the fed is definitely set in stone they're going to go to 2%, if oil was to go where it is or higher, it's going to be hard to flush that out and the fed could even go higher than it is now on its rate. >> certainly the fed has been really firm in talking about being vigilant in its fight against price pressure. so anything that continues to give some concern around whether

those will remain emlevated and be slower coming down is just going to keep them on their current trajectory. when we look at that last mile of inflation, we have items like energy that can come in with some spikes just due to various supply/demand factors. you also have things that can be less volatile but just take time to come down. in the last pce report we got, we did get some good news that things were continuing to progress in the way people expected but when you look at that element called super core inflation, which the fed really focusses on, which is core services, ex-housing, that remained a little higher at 50 basis points month over month. we're going to want to continue to see how those price pressures dissipate over time. >> what does this all mean for

your forecast for how the s&p does for the remaineder of the year and what will 2024 be like? >> we are at a more neutral strans of the u.s. s&p and the reason why is you've got really a balance of pros and cons. on the one hand we have made some really good progress in the inflation fight. and with the fed having raised rates so far to more of a pause and down in the future, even a pivot. when we look at the economic data, we have seen some green chutes occurring, but if you look at the trend, it's getting less worse over time. those are on the positive side of the ledger. however, we're not all the way there in terms of inflation. the last couple of core figures are still meaningfully above

where the fed would expect them and we have tightening financial liquidity conditions, along with the fact that growth is still flow. we feel like the best place for clients to sit right now is to be at whatever their strategic or long-term typical rates would be. >> thank you very much. okay, folks. we told you not to go anywhere for a reason. coming up, you really can't go anywhere. the g.o.a.t., is he coming out of retirement? delta airlines adding a new player, ceo ed bastian and the player to be named after the break. i gave oicffer little hint. "squawk box" coming right back after this quick time-out. constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall.

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endorsement where you're endorsing, doing commercial for delta. >> it's great to be here. tom and i are announcing a partnership, the greatest of all time, bringing him into the delta team. we have signed a long-term agreement for tom to be an advisor for delta. we on the top and want to keep climbing. >> so you're talking about leadership. he's going to talk about various topics and how to provide leadership in terms of your performance. >> this is not a sponsorship. tom will be coming inside the company and talking to our people about greatness, about resilience, about excellence, about performance in a team sport. he played with the greatest

teams in the world. i think we run the greatest team in the airline space in the world and putting our two brands together, magic is going to happen. >> what did you think, tom, when he approached you about this? >> i think getting to know ed and the leader he is, he has unbelievable command and work ethic and his leadership has elevated the brand to an incredible place. so very fortunate to join the team and working with all the employees and continue to help inspire people to, you know, grow great communities and teams of people and companies. i've been very fortunate over the years to be a part of a lot of those and i think in this next chapter of my life to do things like that stimulates my own personal growth in a lot of ways and i'm excited to share the lessons i've learned. >> upstairs you were talking with ed and i about there's a

lot of areas where there's not great leadership. politics, different areas right now. do you feel like you have an insight, given your history, whether it's with the patriots and then the buccaneers,e et cetera, to pinpoint pretty quickly this works or doesn't work with when it comes to leadership? >> sure. sports brings so many communities together and we fill up stadiums. it's kickoff weekend and all these stadiums around the country are going to be full. the reason why they're showing up is because they want to see people succeed at the highest level and see the great coaches and great players. a lot of that teamwork, i believe it always starts at the top. i've been part of organizations that have great leadership, that give great information to the people, that can inspire the athletes to maximize their opportunity and their potential. so i think, you know, for me to live this in a different way and

to join a different team is really fun for me. and there's no better partner to have than ed. to see how he's dealt with adversity over the course of his career, what he did in covid and how his leadership really took this incredibly difficult situation where it spring boarded him now into different opportunities of growth for the company. all these things are exciting for me. i've got i think a long second career ahead and it's a great way to kick it off. >> do you think on-the-field leader, does the qb take over from the coach? it was your job to get the maximum of everybody? >> once that call is in in the game, you're in charge and i think everyone is trusting you to make the route decision out

there. >> you can probably tell business -- you can't just wing it when you come in. and nobody prepared -- how old are you now? >> 46. >> and i'm surprised you're not going to be out there, and you could be if you wand to. >> i think preparation is a huge part of the reason why we're successful or not successful. the more you know the competition, the more you know your teammates, the better opportunity you have to succeed in the moment. all these decisions are happening in the moment. you guys come on live tv every day. there's no opportunities for mistakes, you better be prepared, you better know your subjects. we've never lost anyone. no one's ever died. it's no the that important. yet. >> have you ever thought of yourself as coaching a team? corporate team. >> i think there's different

areas -- it's really about information and it's really about teamwork. leadership to me is always do you care about your teammates and do you care about what you're trying to accomplish. if only you care about yourself, in my mind that's never going to create a great -- >> on a weak team you can trade them out or do you think you can inspire the weaker player to be a better player? >> it's interesting. as a quarterback, i didn't have the responsibility to trade players. hi to get along with everybody. they desicided was in the locke room and sat next to you? i had the same spot in the patriots locker room for years. how do we found things about this person that are similar that we can connect. so much is about relationship and relatability. it's not how can they enjoy the things i want to talk about. it was more along the lines of

how can i connect with them to figure out the things these guys enjoy so i can relate to them? i think that always created a great relationship i had with my teammates. we all cared about each other and what we were trying to achieve. there was a lot of work, i don't know if sacrifice is the word, a lot of commitment to the team goal and you experience success, to me that's what life is about. you're going to experience a lot of success and adversity. when you deal with adversities, who is there to support you? everyone is going to be there when there's success. if there's a man who knows how to deal with adversity, ed does that better than anyone else. >> let me ask you a question. you apparently, i read that when texas christian lost over the weekend to colorado, you reached out to the quarterback and texted him three words, "don't

be satisfied." house of repre how would you tell people in a corporate environment to relate to that? >> i think that's a great point. how to experience success over time is challenging. you have this big season opener that colorado had. it's one particular game and it was great that they started that way but in the end there's a long season ahead. you guys may have one great day but do you have guy great days and do those five great days turn into a month? >> whoa, whoa, whoa, it's been 40 years. let it sink in before we say it's a one-off. >> i'm saying you have to do it over a period of time. we're all trying to achieve success with our teams and our businesses. the own way to do it with the right processes to get you the opportunity to succeed. competition is tough. >> we only got about two minutes. can we talk a little bit about

the upcoming season? the parity is pretty good. i asked you off camera the quarterback you think has some really raw talent. no one's ever going to win as many super bowl. i think that's like pete rose's. do you think your record can be done again? >> i know what i put into it. i think if someone else is willing to put that into it, i have a a will the of respect for that. >> it's not luck. things have to happen, a lot of things that you can't control, serendipitous, it's amazing. it was you that did it. >> it was us. >> you said mahomes. >> i think he's phenomenal. >> joe is an incredible player, aaron rodgers is an incredible player. >> and he's a young guy. >> 18th or 19th year. he's a consistent level of

success, too, an amazing players. >> ed, how did you come up with the idea to bring him in? >> we were talking and trying to figure out where you could collaborate. tom is leaving his old career and joining the corporate world, the business world, to and as we talked, the one thing that got me about tom is that he talks about doing things the right way. everything with tom -- that's why the patriots were so successful. they did things the right way. consistently everybody was in and there was one way, the right way. recovering from covid, we talk about the difficulty of travel experience, you guys were talking about it a little bit this morning. and we need to continue to elevate the bar. when i think about our brand, it stands for three things, welcoming, caring and an elevated experience. delta does that better than anybody. >> is he talking to all of the

troops? >> he talking to all of our team. next week we have our big mid year leadership meeting, a thousand people or more. tom is going to be with me. we're going to be talking about it. what tom brings is operational excellence, resilience in performance, making sure you can differentiate your experiences to your customers better than anybody. and whether you're winning seven super bowl championships or america's most american airline, we know we're only as good as our next -- can you give him through j.f.k.? >> can he? why would he? i mean, this is a good gig. have you ever thought of a cnbc contributor role? >> are you offering me a job? >> yes. i can broach the subject.

>> he meant the man upstairs. >> he's got his weekend gig. >> i love watching you guys. you have great chemistry between you guys. you're a great show to have on in the morning at the gym to kind of kick start my day. >> were we rolling on that? i guess we're rolling on everything. good. >> let's cut that. so tomorrow night who do you like? >> they have a really good head coach, a great general manager. it's hard to be successful in the nfl if you don't have key areas that impact the organization. twlu could have done something with kelsey, can't you? >> any time someone hurts a knee, i don't really like that. >>. >> my son called me yesterday morning and he's got kelsey on his team and he's like, "dad,

kelsey"! i was like do i need to trade out of this? when you came out, no one knew! no one knew, did they? >> did you know? >> i had a degree of confidence, a unique story from the time when i started playing football in high school to the time i got to the pro level. there was a lot of competition i had through high school and college, which i was very lucky to have. you don't build resilience from everyone telling you how great you are. >>. >> he's got a good coach. >> all right, we got to go. is go right, go right, go right. th is like colorado winning. this doesn't happen very often.

"squawk box" is coming right back. >> thank you guys, really. network's got you covered. [please confirm requesting back-up.] -changing route. -go. roadblock ahead. ...back up, back up... reverse! reverse! next level moments, we're 30 seconds out. need the next level network. [north corridor, hurry!] -coming through! -or 3, let's go. the network more businesses choose. transplant received. at&t business. we earn your trust. maintain our financial strength and stability. and deliver solutions that meet complex needs. massmutual. partnering with financial professionals, benefits brokers, and institutions.

welcome back to "squawk box." rick santelli here live at cmehq with the breaking news of the morning. the first set of breaking news points in the morning, this will be the trade balance. it's going to be a deficit throthe

month of july. minus 68 billion, the smallest deficit since march but what's interesting here and last month did get a revision, we saved about 2 billion off the deficit from minus 65.5 to 63.7. we started keeping track of these data points in 1992 and right up to covid, the biggest deficit we have is around minus 68 billion. we are just getting back into what were the worst levels of trade deficit precovid, so the deficits are starting to get back into a size caliber that would have been considered large pre-covid. that's something to pay attention to. rates are coming up just a little bit, the 4 1/2 back in the cross hairs of 10s. that's a level we'll continue toy in the future. it's a high-frequency area that

the ten-. joe, back to you. >> all right, rick santelli. and we have in a similar vein some comments. hey, steve. >> fed president susan collins saying we'll need to hold rates at a strict level for some time. but. there is some science and it too early to say inflation is back to the 2% target. but she is optimistic the target

can be achieved with only a modest increase in the unemployment rate. joe? >> all right, steven. . have you noticed oil, steve? we need to change a lot of our thinking, do we not? >> i'm sorry, i missed the first part what you said, joe. >> oil. let's say that it not just the high end at the top end of a range. what if this keeps going? i mean, that changes everything, doesn't it? >> well, it's definitely going to change the top line and the headline inflation numbers. it's going to make it look like there's more inflation out there. whether or not that seems into the areas the fed is watching, we'll have to be careful. the fed, they followed these inflexion expectations.

>> when ent but we'll see how long this takes, joe. you'll notice the average data in the oil trade is $68 beautiful. >> just i know we bach it ou a. >> all right. thanks, steve. >> you better. >> coming up next, reaction to >> coming up next, reaction to th (fan #there ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about! (josh allen) is this your plan to wate latee ga federal? coming up with the answer. ors' . (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them.

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welcome back, everybody. strong economic data has boosted market confidence that the fed will skip app additional rate hike later this month. joining us for clues on where the economy is headed next is

mohamed el-rian. susan said we could be at the point where the fed could need to raise rates again. what's your opinion? >> i think based on the fed is highly data dependent, they will not raise rates this month. that's a what the market stability that the fed keeps race is. but what they will do is keep the door open for at least one more rate hike in the future. and the reason why they're going to do that is two-fold. one is the economy is proving stronger than they had anticipated. in fact, they may have inso that's quite a meaningful

religion. and the neckedish oo certain food items are supply driven and that's going to go into hidline inflation. as joe pointed out, it could even spill over into broader issues. so they're not going to hike this month but that your going to keep the possibility open and hiking begins. >> you have concerns about china really slowing down. what do you is a bigger threat, that china's think that inflation is much for. >> you know what, you look at the all market while you're looking at the housing market, we're getting a very peculiar

die federal budget and her growth problems are compounded by debt programs and they can only betory so china is not going to bounce back any time opinion ffbl we have mortgage demand down to levels we haven't seen for 20-plus year but housing prices aren't coming down facebook. i think we have toly it and that's why we've continued to see prices coming so steb on. >> is that almost setting sings up for stagflation or do you think this is.

the u.s. will able to handle it. you'vethere's no reason for us to fall into a recession, unless there's another policy mistake. if you want to talk about stagflation, look at europe. look at the they don't have the ability to reallocate resources and they don't have the vision for growth that we have. so i worry less about stagflation in the u.s., but i do worry about stagflation in europe and the yoeuro zone and the u.k. >> and just getting back to oil prices, you can look at prices and say these are high prices, you had brent up yesterday. but historically it hasn't kept up with inflation that you see with a lot of other goods.

>> yes, with you it's what happens here. we're in the low 3s on cpi, hoping to get in the it p 2s. two things we have to deal with, one is that oil, food has gone back up. that's headline. two is core inflation remains above 4% and that has to do with services and wages. so the big question and you've heard me say this before, towards the end of the year, the fed will have a very simple decision. either tolerate inflation around 3% and hope, which i think is the case that it's stable, or insist on trying to drive it to 2% and risk pushing that economy into a much lower growth. that's the choice to face before the end of the year. that's what happens to the oil prices now and wage negotiations. that's why these things are so important. >> mohamed, thank you. good to see you today.

>> thanks for having me. >> coming up, we have another legend joining us this morning, mickey drexler will be here on the state of the consumer and so much more. "squawk box" coming right back with the merchant prince right after this.

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the red right now. nasdaq off and s&p 500 off about 13 points. goldman sachs saying the chances of recession continue to fall. wall street anxious about inflation fears. joining us to talk about the consumer impact and what he is seeing, we're going to call in him the merchant prince but we're going to call him a mensche. >> and we're just mentioning your beautiful blazer. >> let's talk about the consumer and how you think the consumer really is holding up it or not at the moment. >> well, again, this is all, as i always say here, my personal opinion. i think everyone's really nervous about the economy. now, when you say everyone, it's really not everyone. it's groups of certain people.

economy, politics today and from what i hear and i always do a survey before i get here with my friends in the business, it's tough and challenging out there but there are always those that do well. >> so what do you i ththink is working right now? when you walk the stores, madison, 5th avenue, what are you seeing? >> there's very few shops in apparel and fashion is what i do but i have a strong point of view. it's almost like a supermarket assortment. buy one of this, buy one of that. i don't see what the focus is. and there are those that have it. i think retailing fashion is kind of becoming a niche

business, have a strong point of view. >> is there a brand aside from your own that -- >> every time you ask me that, i have friends that call me and get offended. there are some, i'll tell you after. >> what do you think of lmh and all it is doing right now? >> i think it's extraordinary. i think it unbelievable what he as the leader has done. you can't argue when the success with each of the brands with great integrity. lvmh, huge admiration. >> what do you think about amazon in this context? we were talking about potential ftc case that might be brought against amazon this month. it was in the wall street journal this morning. amazon is not only selling

third-party fashion but they're selling their own fashion. how do you think this has changed your business and has it it? >> not us. fashion style taste on clothes that last forever, 15 years. this is -- well, it's only four years old. it's the first year we kind of did that. my shirt, by the way -- >> it's custom. all of my shirts were made and if you amore tiez a customer shirt, it's the same shirt. button down olor, button up, statement filt or white. that's what i do. so amazon they could be killer in fashion and they're not. it's very hard to understand the fashion business and i don't

call fashion the product business, the style, the taste, the focus, very hard business. you have to see around corners and you have to have vision on where you go. i think what he's done is extraordinary but amazing. >> but you wouldn't sell into that channel? >> well, it's very i wouldn't. but when i left j. crew and the gap, i think, even sells into that channel where i was. the first thing at the board meeting that was mentioned by by successor, whatever, was they are going to sell amazon, and that was biblical at j. crew. controlling your distribution. and that's what i do, because i learned serious lessons. in a department store, if this is -- i'm selling this for 20 bucks, the discounter has it for

$15, and they get all the goods they want from everyone. so, amazon, i mean, they're a huge convenient business. >> you were on the board of apple many, many, many moons ago. >> 16 years. >> with steve jobs. when you think about just the mix in terms of sales today, electronic versus in-store, what does it look like? where do you think it's going to be five years from now? >> well, the stores -- everyone has been too many stores over the last 15 years. i'm as guilty of that as anyone. >> overstoring. >> overstoring, blocks away. at gap, there wasn't a piece of real estate that we didn't take after the negotiation, three blocks from here. you know, scarcity is really important, in my opinion. and very important. and many, many, many too much offerings in many too much

stores, and look at my old companies. in fact, the company i was on the board with left somewhat recently, they're opening too many stores. i said it. i said it again, and i said it, you know, whenever. >> how much of the challenge, though -- and i wanted to ask you about marketing and advertising -- is the phone? the challenge of advertising on the phone, which is it used to be you would have these beautiful full-page, double truck, triple trouble ads in these magazines where you could establish a look and a feel and an -- >> historically. 100%. >> you used to do it at j. crew. i remember campaigns at the gap. >> gap tv was -- old navy, wow. >> what works now? >> you know, it's a really tough answer. there's too many things on the menu, and for us, we do emails almost every day, men and/or women. i'm not wild about the numbers

the next day. it's habitual. and right now, we have a paid ad, only one, and in the last six or eight weeks, that one style, when i saw -- i said, what are we doing? it was a paid ad. the day we stopped doing the paid ad, it went from like a lot a day to hardly any, and i said, what happened yesterday? they said, we canceled the paid ad. i said, put it back on. so, for us, and we're small, i like paid ads. we like most of all, you know, product, word of mouth is incredible. >> how much does the celebrity these days matter to you? we just had tom brady, who you saw. he's now -- by the way, talking about people. now they have their own brands. tom brady has his own clothing brand. kim kardashian with skims.

that's become sort of the new way people are developing brands. >> kardashians are brilliant with what they've done with skims. i don't know tom, but i saw some of the goods. they asked me, people that are backing it, to give my opinion on certain things, and i didn't like the goods, no offense to tom. he's a great quarterback. but a lot of people think the name is the game, but you know, the skims thing, people love it. and they also have an advantage of having 50 million followers. it's selective. now, and all due respect, i'm not sure what an airline -- and i'm curious how they'll utilize tom brady. i mean, he doesn't fly or anything like that. >> i think to a lot of people, he does fly.

that's part of the stat. >> we have a celebrity, you know, civilization, celebrities are smarter, they're better, they're always better-looking. we read about them. the photos taken of tom out there was like, you know -- >> what are the kardashians good at? >> skims. >> i know, but prior to that, their skill was what? >> well, you know, it's interesting. skims, i think, has been -- >> you know what i mean. >> the most under -- >> i know, i know. >> i have more respect for kim kardashian in this business than just about anyone. >> fine, fine, fine. i can't put my -- >> richest woman in america. >> she's a businesswoman. how'd she get there? what was the reason to get there? the fame and notoriety. >> kris jenner is amazing. >> kris jenner is the ceo. i know her a bit. it's unbelievable. >> mickey drexler, the merchant prince and the mensch, nice to see yo > u.>>next, we're going to have

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welcome back to "squawk box." we got a few morning movers. we'll start with the airlines that are not delta or tom brady-related. check out united, southwest, and

alaska airlines. each has put out a regulatory filing indicating updates to various aspects of their businesses, but generally speaking, we are talking about higher fuel prices. they also talked about things like the effect on margins and operating margins and revenue per available seat mile, that sort of thing. watch those airline stocks. also, check out what's happening now with another move in roku. those shares are higher now. it says that it's going to have more revenues coming up this quarter, but it will unfortunately cut around 10% of its workforce and look to consolidate some of its office space to trim expenses. and we'll end on shares of constellation brands, big wine and spirits company. modelo, corona, that sort of thing. td cowen is upgrading that from $300 to $240. they like accelerating beer growth there. a few morning movers. back to you. >> all right. >> i wasn't allowed to tell you. >> no, no, no. >> i wasn't allowed to tell you who it was, so you saw who was

on, right? >> i followed it very closely. >> i was watching intently, very curious to see what tom brady was going to do with regard to his leadership consultant role at delta airlines. >> oh my god, we only have 13 seconds until the show is over. thanks, dom. there's the dow. we're down. oil is like $86. that's what we have been talking about all morning. probably talk about it tomorrow if you join us. "squawk on the street" is next. ♪ good wednesday morning, welcome to "squawk on the street," i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer at post nine of the new york stock exchange. david faber is out west live from goldman's communicopia conference. concerns of slowing growth, higher rates, higher oil, getting a slight reprieve on those fronts today. ten-year, still 4.25%, brent back below $90. our road map begins with the fed.