joe? >> just one of those days. diamondback energy. i won't give the ticker symbol. >> liz? joe and i did commiserate on this. my final trade is energy. >> all right. thanks, everybody. see you on "closing bell." "the exchange" begins right now. ♪ ♪ thank you very much, scott. welcome to "the exchange." i'm kelly evans. here is what is ahead today. are rising interest rates suddenly bad news? all year long, equities have largely shrugged off climbing rates, but this week seems different. yields are popping again today on the back of strong economic data. and like yesterday, that is sending stocks lower today. we're at session lows right now. why are investors now sounding the alarm? we'll discuss or debate that. and apple shares lower overseas. the eu naming it one of six

digital gate keepers. and china is banning government officials from bringing iphones to work. plus, have we finally reached the tipping point? why the fight between disney and charter could be the beginning of the end for linear tv as we know it. before all that, though, let's get more on the selloff, dom chu. >> by the way, kelly, you are right to point out we are at session lows right now. if you look at the s&p right now, down 52 points. this is the session low, so we'll put down 52 right there. down six was the session high, so it's been a predominantly down session, although not nearly as dramatic as we have right now at these current levels. 4444 is the trade in the s&p 500. now, solidly below the 4500 mark. the dow is the outperformer, only down about 1%, 337 points to the downside. the nasdaq composite, though,

that's the real underperformer, down 1.5%, 212 points off. we'll have a couple more points on what that is shaping up to be in a moment. one place we want to look at is the crude oil trade. u.s. benchmark west texas intermediate prices, wti, ticking higher again. they were higher yesterday. we saw a little bit of a pullback earlier in the session. we're up three kaquarters of 1%. it is important, because as we pointed out yesterday, at these current levels, we have to go back to mid november of last year to get that. just to give you a point of reference of where we are, 8735 at the current prices. roughly $93.74 was the high over the course of the past year. that was back in mid november, early november. so we'll watch wti crude prices going higher again, adding to that inflationary story impacting rates. and then speaking of that story, rates are the better or worse

for big cap technology? f these are all sharply lower today. nvidia down 4% at this stage, that's the driving force behind that technology underperformance today. i know you mentioned tony is here. we'll have much more on that trade. i'm interested to see what we can trade around these mega cap technology stocks. i'll send it back to you. >> a lot of questions. dom, thank you very much. dom chu. it's not just that strong services report worrying the street today about more rate hikes. one typically dovish fed president is also sounding a little more hawkish. steve liesman brings us more on that. steve? >> hey, kelly, good afternoon. the service sector registered a bit more expected strength than economists expected after a soft spring, reflecting what we already know. the service sector is strong. ism rising to 54.5.

all the major components were stronger, especially employment kicking up, as well. the price component also went higher, which was not a good sign for a fed focused on service inflation. but the index remains well below its peak levels of a year ago. the unevenness of this data is what prompts officials of being wary of declaring anything approaching victory in the fight against inflation. susan collins said this morning that the fed will likely need to hold rates at restrictive levels for some time. while -- further tightening could be warranted depending on the data. i would say this is a sign of the market's jitteriness. they don't usually react so strongly. >> they don't, steve. that's what i find interesting. but we'll dive into that in a

second. first, let's get more on the moving yields. that could push mortgage rates closer to 7.5%. rick, what do you make of it all? >> the markets, the federal reserve, people have a handle on what their divided path is, and some of the famous fed horse whisperers have been hamming home the notion that rents are coming down, rents are coming down. it's easy to see that the fed committee wants to be done. many people, traders, sources are reading between the lines. but the data speaks otherwise. steve was talking about price pay. there was only a small reversal, a four-month high on that chart, and there's your twos and tens on one start. the response was immediate. grant it, there was some pockets of strength in other metrics, but it was the price that captured the trader's

attentions. and when you talk about that two year and 5%, as a technician, what i think about is we have only had one close above that march high of 507. we closed at 508. many traders watch that, because we are doing a whole lot less work above key levels in short maturities versus long maturities. we took out some of those fall highs in 10s and 30s and have been doing a lot more work above their levels. that is not lost on traders, because they're at the bottom of those trades that are doing that. finally, the employment index is the one that makes you scratch your head. we just had the august employment report. here, we see 54.7, the best since november 2021. so there's a lot of questions and many people questioning whether surveys are the best way to gauge employment. kelly, back to you. >> let's discuss it. rick, thank you very much.

the rise in yields you just mentioned touching a selloff in stocks today. but if we had trumped uprising yields in the first half, why aren't we shrugging it off anymore? let's turn to my panel now. everybody is still in the mix. julia, first to you. i heard you listening and pondering. i wanted to know what you were thinking about all of this today. >> yeah. so i think rick makes a great point, which is that, you know, the ism employment index seems to be at odds with the slowing and hiring that we're seeing, pretty decisively now in the employment report. we have to keep in mind, they captured the share of industries that are still hiring versus firing. but it doesn't capture the intensity of that hiring. when we look at earnings reports, what we see is that companies are reporting slowing down hiring, being more patient,

being more picky. so they're not actually that inconsistent with each other. industries are hoarding labor. they don't want to let go of people after having had such a hard time snapping back up. but they are slowing their hiring. look at revenue growth, expectations for the s&p 500 this year. 2% nominal. >> right. >> that's not great growth against which to hire a lot of new workers. so i think that the hard activity data is telling us the economy is slowing. company reports are telling us that. but some of these signals are at odds with each other, and there's a lot of uncertainty. so the fed keeps pounding home higher for longer on rates and the market is taking them at their word. >> steve, before i bring mark in, did the fed fund futures move? this whole thing is we haven't ruled out more hikes. did we see a budge in those expectations, maybe not for september but for november? >> yeah, they were trading in

the low 40s for november. but now they're trading sort of towards the 50% line. 56% i think is the probability of a hike. but i want to take the other side of the trade on the soft employment report. when i looked into the details of it, i counted 36,000 chtrucks that had lost their jobs in the yellow bankruptcy. 18,000 people were on strike, and then another weird thing, which is 15,000 teachers not employed or lower than it had been. so i'm not sure that employment part was quite as weak as everybody said. yes, it was softer, but i don't know that i would call it soft and i don't find the service employment indecision at odds with the job market. >> mark, i want you to put this where the rubber meets the road, what you make in the selloff the past couple of days, is it in response to higher yields and this anxiety about inflation and the fed?

>> at the end of the day, when i talk to my clients, they're up 15%, 16% since january. although this is a lot to talk about today, when you look at your portfolio, we're up double digits. so no one is too concerned right now. what we should be concerned about is the fact that the fed may want to go higher for longer. and that may mean, again, a rate increase. and that may stay there for a while. i think there's a lot of data pointing in that direction. you see the price of crude is up 10% this month. you're seeing that russia and opec are going to combine to lower how much output they put out. all of these things are going to be inflationary. >> so when people look at their portfolios and how they have done this year, do they say take me out of the market, i have done good. i'm just curious this has gone from a situation where you have oil prices that have been climbing for months. they started climbing i think in june. we have seen other inflation

numbers and interest rate numbers moving higher. yet stocks were shrugging it off. >> when i talk to clients, they want to take some fat off the table. they want to trim their positions, they like the gains that they saw in all these tech stocks over the last eight months, and they want to go in a money market fund, getting 5%, a cd, so many other things that make you sleep well at night and you're still in the market even if you do trim. so making sure we take advantage of what happened over the last eight months. so i encourage everybody at home to do the same thing. trim positions and go into industrials. i think that industrial sector will do great going forward. we have a $1 trillion infrastructure sector, and that money will go to work this week. >> the different guest said he thought industrials could have a china head wind. so even in a market that you would recommend. rick, what are you hearing out there in chicago?

>> the fed, many traders could deal with, and they think they can get in their handing, and the reality is, the fed doesn't have a crystal ball. when it comes to the markets, the fed has aired on the side of less aggressive grates. now long rates are leading the way, being quite stubborn coming back from 4%. that makes traders take note. i think steve makes a good point, that you have to be careful. there's little ak sen tristies in all data points, but there always is, and the biggest one is the seasonality issues post covid. so if we start this, it will make the markets more confused. and more confused means higher rates amid fearful of hanging on to equities and losing those double digit returns that our guest appropriately pointed out. >> go ahead, steve. >> and rick, rick, you're wrong. the fed does have a crystal

ball. the question is how well it works, and it's not been working all that well. the other problem is how well they read the signals they get. i have scary seen the time where i feel like the fed is sort of confused about the outlook as they have ever been here. that's why they're in this hard core patience mode, where they will let the data play out. they are thankful that they have convinced the market that they are not going in september and they don't have to until november. because i think if they have to decide now, they wouldn't know which way to go. >> you sure put a good face on it, that's for sure. >> julia, what would be the most important in kind of your crystal ball right now, the long leading indicators, which have been warning us for months that a bigger storm is brewing, what do you think? >> well, so the rule of thumb when i was a forecaster at the federal reserve was that employment data is best measured

in realtime versus gdp or surveys. of course, take that all with a grain of salt post covid. but i want to point out that this whole discussion is illustrating that the market is doing the fed's work for them, with 5% two-year yields, yeah, people are going to err towards safe assets over risky assets. that tightens financial conditions and slows the economy. so all the fed has to do is less rather than more and let the market do its work. so buying time is the strategy. >> there is a marketedly different tone than there was in the first half of the year. we were debate thing a little yesterday, as well. energy is the leadership, it has been the worst performer. tech is up 2% versus its 40% run in the first half. so i guess if i had to sort of force you into it to say well, okay, where would you want to jump in and kind of be most exposed right now, what would

you ay? do you still stick with tech, or, you know, do you go for the utilities? do you go for consumer staples, something like that? i don't know how you can in this rate environment. >> industrials are the safest bet. the reason i say that is because you're managing money, you don't want to lose people's principle. in a recession, that sometimes happens. so industrials are ready to weather that storm. because of all the infrastructure that has to be built, the fact that we have to build out all these ai data centers. the fact that we have to go and possibly increase defense, what's going on in the east. there are a lot of reasons to support the industrial sector going into a recession. so i think as an investor, you have to look for the opportunities that no matter what the environment, you'll make money. >> there's always a bull market somewhere, you hope. thank you very much for your time today. we appreciate it. by the way, to hear investing ideas from some big names, there's still time to

sign up for cnbc's delivering alpha event september 28. register just by scanning that qr code on the screen or go to cnbcevents.com. coming up, apple is in danger of snapping its seven-day win streak. why the world's largest company could be in the midst oh of a major reset. that's next. plus, mean stocks, coming up, we'll preview results from dave and busters, game stop and charge point. and here's a look at the markets, bouncing just off session lows. the key data point is on the bottom right, the ten-year note there at almost 4.3%. the nasdaq, the worst performer today, even worse than the russell, down 1.3%. back after this.

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welcome back. apple trading lower today, down almost 3.5% on a pair of big decisions against the company. the eu namele apple, with amazon, meta and byte dance, as a gate keeper under its digital market act, so it will be facing far-reaching rules aimed at

making competition more fair. in china, government officials have been told they can't use iphones and other foreign branded devices for work, they can no longer even bring them into the office, according to "the wall street journal." how big a deal is this? let's bring in a senior analyst at bernstein. tony, great to have you here. why are apple shares down so much? >> thanks, kelly. well, clearly both of these are potential threats to apple's business model going forward. apple does 20% of its business in china, and so look, you know, this is not apple being singularly picked on in china. this is all non-chinese branded phones. but nevertheless, it raises the question of whether, you know, this could start to trigger any kind of pro chinese or anti-american sentiment towards the company. and given how significant apple's presence is there, that's certainly going to give

investors pause. on the eu side, we've known for a while the digital markets act was passed and we knew it would be implemented in april of next year. the real question there is whether apple will be required, as the legislation is written, to allow for other app stores so people can download apps outside of apple, which also could have finance shaial implications, alh those are muted somewhat. >> that's interesting. it gets to the larger question you have been pos itting, which is whether apple today looks like the old ibm. and it's fun to make the comparisons. both were berkshire hathaway's largest holdings, both are viewed as a high quality stock, holding it can't get you fired. and they have similar size of financials. apple today and ibm kind of back between 1997 and 2012.

so, you know, i can't tell whether this is a compliment oar a curse. we know how the ibm story ended, but is it okay? >> right, no, absolutely. so the financial similarities of apple over the last seven or eight years from an eps growth perspective and ibm 10, 15 years ago, are pretty similar in terms of they both delivered 11%, 12% ups growth. what is striking is that apple's relative multiple and absolute multiple is much higher than ibm's ever was. so the market clearly has more confidence in, you know, apple as an ongoing business than it did for ibm ten years ago. i think the concern about ibm was really that it's, you know, privileged asset was the mainframe and the account control that that provided.

ultimately, the mainframe was declining and being disrupted by cloud and industry standard servers. for apple, they have a customer mode, but that's not declining. right now, we don't see a risk of disruption to people having the smartphone as their principal interface. so time will tell how it plays out. both companies were fantastic growth companies for a long time. they went to a more mature phase where, you know, topline growth slowed and they started repurchasing shares, triggering mr. buffet's interest in both names. but ibm was facing much more structural issues than apple is. but certainly time will tell. >> there are two warnings in here again. you have a market with apple at a $195 price target. but revenue growth matters. eps growth answer sent revenue

growth, number one, things for investors to look for. and number two, platforms change, so they're doing their best with the new headset that may be the new platform, but it's hard to get around those corners. we did get a little piece of news, and i wonder if you would find it significant. the number of people who downloaded apple tv to watch lionel messi play in his first soccer match. is there a bet on content and kind of getting into the living room that way, an important part of answering those two potential future problems about revenue growth and customer lock-in? >> well, good question, kelly. look, i think apple's strategy is to try to make the iphone and the associated system as complete and necessary for consumers, that it's essential. that's why apple is broadening into television, it's broadening into payments and, you know, buy

now, pay later and credit cards. so this device is essential to people. the data points specifically about downloads for apple tv, it is pretty small in the contest of apple overall. you know, we think that apple tv revenues today, you know, are maybe $1 billion to $2 billion. apple is $400 billion, and the business is not particularly profitable. but apple has a lot of these services, and they continue to introduce and build them. you know, part of it is to grow revenue and avoid that revenue slowdown, as you referenced. but i think the other is to strengthen the linkages and make that device all that important to consumers, so that ultimately a platform change is less likely going forward. >> right. especially if regulators are going to come in and undermine things like i-message that were

a big part of their lock-in. tony, thanks for your time today. >> thank you, kelly. t-mobile, the company has just authorized often additional $19 billion buyback to its stock buyback program. we're seeing them go from a spike to a dip of 1.5%. the ceo making the announcement. our own david favor will be seeking with the ceo later. still ahead, two natural gas stocks are falling after inking a multibillion dollar deal, and we'll tell you why investors are act thing way. check out shares of lockheed martin, having their worst day since november. lockheed shares at the lowest level in 11 months. hexcng iba aer this. every day, businesses everywhere are asking: is it possible?

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relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. right now save up to $900 off mattress sets during purple's labor day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you. welcome back to "the exchange." here's something peculiar. shares of enbridge and dominion are lower after announcing a $14 billion deal. enbridge is down 2%, and dominion is down to levels we haven't seen in decades. pi what gives here? >> it was the size of the deal that took the street by surprise. the announcement that it's buying three of dominion's nat gas utilities was unexpected. the deal will make enbridge the largest natural gas provider in

north america and is doubling down on nat gas, betting big that the bridge fuel will have a place for decades to come at a time when other companies are pivoting more towards renewables. that includes dominion, which is shedding some non-core assets. and enbridge announced a roughly $3 billion deal equity offer to help finance the transaction. investors are not loving the news here with shares of enbrain down 5%. jpmorgan noting the market has a lot to digest, including how this changes the company's big mix. wells fargo says it stretches the balance sheet too far. moody's also changing the outlook from stable to negative. >> how will this affect users and customers, will this raise prices across the industry? >> so there are major infrastructure company. they own pipelines across north america and canada and the u.s.

this is another move to get into these areas of the market called local distribution companies. so in ohio, north carolina, and utah. i was talking earlier, and these are fairly nice regulatory environments for the utilities. of course, what this does for enbridge is it gives it more insight into future cash flows, since they will be under that regulated utility model where they earn a rate of return on upgrades and things like that. someone was telling me they raised their dividend for 26 straight years, so this is a way to ensure cash flow looking out. >> and investors want to make sure they raise it for 27, 28, 29 and 30. >> have to keep the winning streaks going. let's get to tyler mathisen now for a cnbc news update. >> thank you. the biden administration will announce today the cancellation of oil and gas drilling leases in alaska, according to reuters, which says the canceled leases come from an alaska state development authority, which has

issued seven leases just before biden was inaugurated. the administration had suspended the leases in 2021, pending an environmental review. anthony blinken met with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy to discuss the country's three-month counteroffensive against russia. blinken called it encouraging and said important progress has been made. a state department official said blinken is expected to announce $1 billion in new u.s. aid to ukraine, including financial and humanitarian assistance. moderna said the new covid booster shot is effective against the latest omicron variant. they are the first to release data on the effectiveness of this new vaccine. it's yet to be reviewed by outside scientists. the booster is expected to be approved by the fda as early as this week. >> tyler, thank you. coming up, short interest

sits at 34%. and dave and busters missed expectations just four times in five years on its earnings. we'll preview all three names coming up. and check out shares of disney. the dow component on track to close at their lowest level since may of 2014, just over $80 a share right now, which means lower than where we were even during the depths of the pandemic. and a new piece from alex sherman dinisivg in there. we're back after this.

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welcome back to "the exchange." a rowdy mix of companies reporting after the bell today, from gamestop to dave and busters and c 3ai. we're joined now by victoria. let's ticket off with c3 ai. up nearly 180% in what could be the greatest year to have the ticker ai. but can the company monetize all the hype? growing competition in the space

could make the path to profitability more difficult. i'm a little surprised to hear you think it's a buy. >> i do. i know it's a little counter, but this is the make or break quarter. the opportunity is there, they just need to grab it and sell and get their product out there more. they have such a lead in the clubhouse, now they need to deliver. but they've been moving over from a platform based application based, this will be a little cleaner earnings report for them, so we can see what thatrunna looks like. but they need to get into these enterprises and expand beyond energy and expand to the broader enterprise before they lose market share to say a salesforce or oracle or ibm. it's there for the taking. they need to execute this quarter. so pressure is high. you see short interest, 35%. not a lot of believers any more. but i think they can. this quarter is really going to be where they can execute and sell and grow. or they're going to get left behind. >> so only a little bit at

stake. by the way, the ceo, chairman and ceo tom siebel will be on at 4:00 today. so it will be a fun afternoon for them. let's move to charge point, which the ev charging company, well off its late 2020 highs. but jpmorgan says the risk from tesla charges and the national standardization is a little overblown as ev penetration continues to grow. victoria, as you see, you're still a little cautious here. why? >> ev adoption is moving a little slower this year than anticipated. there's a lot of money going into the xhur, something like $2.5 billion over the next two years. so there is market share there, but there's competition. the charging networks are rapidly developing, and we have seen slower sales in ev car

sales, and they're still trying to move the positive cash flow. so there's going to be a lot of pressure, what was their cash burn look like, and what is the runway to eventual profitability in about 24 months. i think it's a longer runway. obviously maybe in five to ten years, if we see the ev market play out, it could be a great invest. i think you might be a little early now, considering the softness in the second half. >> again, sort of a show me story in a very different way, as those shares are down 25%. so we'll turn to dave and busters, which has given some of that 20% pop they saw in the last earnings. raymond james says it's a strong buy, as they introduce token based sports betting, and social games like shuffle board and darts. what would you do with this one? >> look, they're a high quality entertainment store front, and they have a diversified

upbringing. they talk about amusement parks, but they have such a unique offering, especially when they bought main event in 2022. they expanded in what they can provide. it really is a fun place to gather, and they expanded the digital and mobile reach. if they get more into sports betting and go more into where some of these markets are playing, they're going to get more people in stores, people drinking beers, people playing the games, as they watch the games. i'm really excited about their management team. the ceo and cfo not even there for 12 to 24 months. i see them being able to have consistent sales growth. they're picky where they open locations and they have great margins. they have zero stores that lost money. >> wow, impressive. says a lot about things.

a couple of other things to mention, gamestop is reporting after the bell. amc today is tumbling after this plan to sell up to 40 million shares. amc shares back below $10. dealer's choice here for these two for you. >> look, amc, "the oppenheimier" was just not enough. the hollywood strike is a big problem. this is just kind of ripping the band-aid off. it's just an ugly day and ugly look. we have the preferred shares that got converted. so this wasn't a huge surprise. gamestop, just trying to be taken seriously. the new ceo needs to tell a better narrative. it will be interesting, they skipped comments the last time. so we'll see if they have something to say and if they can stop this digital gaming evolution. so a lot of pressure on them to change the narrative. that one sometimes, who wants to go against wall street? >> listen, no one really wants to, but i agree, the narrative

on game stop is not clear. maybe tonight is the night, maybe it's not. victoria, thanks for your time and your thoughts. appreciate it. victoria green with g squared private wealth. still ahead, move forward or move on. that was charter's challenge to investors. we'll get you the latest. that's next. as we go to break, check out the social media with some big downside movers today with snap down more than 7%. pinterest down 4%, and even tame down about 1% today. "the exchange" is back after this.

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is a true expression of freedom. ( ♪♪ ) ( sfx: stock exchange bell ringing ) welcome back to "the exchange." shares of disney and charter are falling over the past week, as the two fight over a new agreement. disney channels like abc, espn, and fx, have been blacked out

for charter spectrum customers. julia is leer where with the la and why this could have huge implications -- we talk about linear tv, but if we repackage youtube or apple, it's still going to be kind of linear. i think it's going to be the same kind of menu. >> that's the question really what is the television landscape look like after this battle? it all hinges on how this battle shapes out. this is a battle between charter and disney, and it's being called a referendum on the future of the tv bundle, the live television bumdzle. charter is pushing to get access to disney plus for its linear tv subscribers without additional cost. charter is willing to lose espn, abc, and disney's other channels permanently if disney won't agree to partner with them on the digital piece. other ceos are weighing in.

the comcast ceo and others saying they're not surprised by this dispute, as every company deals with their version of this transformational moment. he noted that consumers want simplicity and the most bang for their buck, and this is putting tension around some of those issues. and paramount's ceo commenting that a dispute like this seems inevitable, and he's focusing on modernizing paramount's distribution deals. the bundle in access, their streaming apps into certain paid tv packages, along with the linear tv networks. all of this comes as today disney slashes the price of disney plus with ads to just $2 a month, that's 75% off for new subscribers for three months. this is a promotion long in the works, unrelated to charter, as disney works to shift consume toers lower cost plans that gives it a dual revenue stream, subscription and advertising, which they believe will deliver

higher profits. kelly? >> charter, it's the second or third biggest cable company in the country. could they at this point just get out of providing the tv business all together? like we have seen some of the smaller players do, and say, okay, it's youtube, hulu, you deal with the trauma. we'll just provide the distribution. >> charter has nearly 15 million paid tv subscribers. what they have said is that it's far more profitable, their broad band business is far more profitable than paid tv. they said we're willing to lose espn, because they're so expensive. if you can't make it worthwhile to us, they're saying that disney is competing with them directly by offering disney plus and espn plus direct to consumers. they are saying we'll have a smaller bundle of paid tv that we'll offer to customers, and people who don't care about espn and sports will pay for the tv

package and will pay less, and will get fewer channels, but it may be worth it for some customers. they said there's only a percentage, about a quarter of their customers are actively engaged with these. it was about 25% who are actively engaged with these channels. it's unclear how many people would be willing to not get espn or know that they had espn for these special occasions, such as the u.s. open. you want to be able to turn on your tv and watch it. >> if they end up -- say they keep -- they say 75% of our customers aren't even watching this, we're dropping these channels, so i can't imagine they would ever say we're cutting your cable bill, but they might. >> so charter says they would be able to offer their customers a smaller bundle of channels, but they're not going to offer disney's channels, they would probably have to offer at a

lower price point. what's interesting here is this whole standoff is happening ahead of monday night football on abc and espn, on those disney channels on monday night. if those nearly 15 million subskrishs subscribers who are already frustrated, if can't watch the u.s. open, football, they'll say hey, should i go to hulu, youtube with live tv? i think that's when charter risks losing a lot of those nearly 15 million. >> so much drama. trying not to love it but it's fascinate to see how it's going turn out. thank you. still to come, 73 million. that's how many americans will be over the age of 75 by 2030. that's going to mean a big boost for senior living facilities. we'll talk to the ceo of one of the biggest about what it means for her bottom line. the chief executive of ventas

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now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. the senior housing is set to boom as the u.s. population ages rapidly and more baby boomers near retirement.

the number of people over the age of 65 is projected to hit 81 million in just a couple of decades. that would be an increase of nearly 25 million from where we have now and those numbers have wall street drooling over the senior living stocks though their performance has been mixed this year. joining me today for an exclusive is the head of one of the key players. deborah is chairman and ceo of ventas, the second largest owner of senior housing in the u.s. >> good afternoon, kelly. >> you've been ceo for 25 years. and so i'm sure the demographics have continued to move in your favor during that period of time and now you're facing a potential bonanza. >> yes, as we've gone from a small company to a $35 billion s&p 500 company, we've had the demographics at our back, but now, they're really, really powerful as you demonstrated. >> how much of a headwind are interest rates where they are now? because this all of a sudden has

thrown a wrench in the works though the stocks are mixed in response. >> yes. our business is growing significantly because it is demand driven. so the fundamental business is growing because of that demand. we are uniquely positioned within commercial real estate because of the demand and on the interest rate side, we've gotten way ahead of where we are now. we've raised almost $3 billion year-to-date at less than 5% rates, which is covering us well into '25. so we are positioned both on the revenue side and on the balance sheet side. >> you're one of the few ceos who has managed your company through periods of much highest interest rates. does this feel like back to the future for you? >> well, we know that the market is cyclical and so at ventas, we've always been prepared for any type of economic environment. we believe because of the demand we have and sector we're in,

we're uniquely positioned to drive. as you think about senior housing, which is 50% of our business, the demand in just the over 80 population, which is the fastest growing segment, is really incredible. it's going from a couple of hundred thousand a year to 500,000 a year to 900,000 a year. and so we see 6 million more people in our customer base. we house say 76,000 residents. the whole industry only has 200,000 vacant units. when you look across the country. >> is it correct to think of this aslike nursing homes? >> it's private pay. it's consumer driven. most of our portfolio is really in areas that have home values over 500,000. we cater to middle market and

higher consumer who wants to live a longer, healthier life in one of our communities that offer activities of daily living, outings. >> sure, and i think we had, my grandfather past couple of years has looked around, knows what a shortage there is and what those waits can be like. but building out housing has to be incredibly expensive in this environment as well. >> well that's one of the benefits to being an existing owner. and that's one of the exciting parts about the forward environment because while demand is really high from this growth in the over 80 population for senior housing, supply is at the lowest point since 2009. so it's this confluence of factors that really gives us optimism about the coming three to five years in particular with the demand at the doorstep and really, really low supply. >> out of time, but more consolidation in the industry do you think? or things kind of stay the way they are now? >> well, we have an incredible organic growth opportunity at the same time, we've always been

consolidators. the public reads really have an opportunity to drive a private to public consolidation as you say and we would hope to continue both the organic growth story as well as the external growth story going forward. >> fascinating. thanks for joining us. learned a lot today. appreciate your time. 25 years. maybe have the record in the current s&p 500. the ceo and chairman of ventas. that does it for us here, everybody. tyler's getting ready for "power lunch" and there a's whole lot more on the other side of this break. we're excited about what ai will do for business. introducing watsonx a platform designed to multiply output by tailoring ai to your needs. when you watsonx your business, you can build ai to help coders code faster, customer service respond quicker, and hr handle repetitive tasks in less time. let's create ai that transforms business with watsonx. ibm. let's create.

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...back up, back up... reverse! reverse! next level moments, we're 30 seconds out. need the next level network. [north corridor, hurry!] -coming through! -or 3, let's go. the network more businesses choose. transplant received. at&t business. good afternoon and welcome to "power lunch" alongside kelly evans. coming up, we've got e con recon. key economic day the out today alongside commentary from the fed via the beige book. we'll break down all the information in just a minute or