>> they're cutting wages. >> they are not raising them. >> -- okay, not raising them. lower than it was. interesting. the labor push is maybe abating just a little bit. >> indeed. >> well, we pretty much filled that time there, didn't we? >> enjoy the game tonight. >> you too. >> first, "closing bell" starts right now. >> kelly, thank you very much. welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner from post nine at the new york stock exchange. this hour begins with the reeling nasdaq on pace now for is fourth straight losing day. by now you know about apple's continued weakness. that stock suffering its worst two-day trade in nearly three years. raises so many questions about the winning tech trade itself. and then the markets as a whole. we'll get you some answers on both fronts from liz ann sounders. first, your score card with 60 minutes to go in regulation, the dow has been green mostly throughout the day today. it weakened a little bit.

nonetheless, still holding on to that, carried by more defensive sectors like healthcare, united health and &j, outperforming today. nasdaq, that's where the action is. tech is teetering and more than just apple dragging in. nvidia is a loser too. it is down sharply. chip stocks are staging a bit of a reversal there. look at nvidia, down near 8 bucks. as for yields, they are lower across the curve today. ten-year, 426. keep our eyes there as well over the next hour or so. takes us to our talk of the tape. how at risk are stocks, especially if the nasdaq faces continued weakness? let's ask liz ann sonders, schwab's chief investment strategist. welcome back. >> thank you. thank you for having me. >> should we be concerned about what is happening in the nasdaq in apple specifically? >> i think it is a little too soon to tell in terms of apple. i'm not an expert on the company

or what's going on in china. but it certainly is a balancing act in terms of what they're trying to do with regard to restrictions on government. the popularity of the iphone is significant not to mention the impact on jobs. so, we're all going to have to be in a wait and see mode. it is not necessarily a bad thing to see maybe a little bit of the air taken out of that component of the market, meaning the large cap tech, techie oriented names, just because of the concentration that that represented at its peak in early june. we were starting to head that way. if we can see a company by broader improvement in breadth down the cap spectrum in other areas, that might be a fairly healthyconvergence that i think would correct some of the excesses both in terms of valuation and sentiment. >> i think people would certainly agree with that. the question is if it doesn't happen, can the market itself withstand nasdaq weakness and

especially from those megacap names, that would be pretty suspect, wouldn't it? >> you also have the bias in investing on the passive side of things, so the sheer weight that the stocks represent in cap weighted indexes is such that there is no question it puts downward pressure, but you could have a situation like we saw a year ago in october, when the indexes were taking out their prior june low, driven down by the weight on the larger cap names from the tightening cycle. you saw that positive divergence of breadth improving under the surface. and that was the setup for what we saw. so, yeah, there is no question that when you see weakness in those names it brings the index down, but i think you have to look under the hood to see what is going on in the rest of the market in terms of whether there might be a lift after some of that selling pressure. >> the other issue we have seen in the market is energy obviously, the stocks have been doing well lately because oil

has been going up and some would suggest, like jim cramer, for example, that until oil starts going down and until yields start making a more meaningful move lower, market can't do anything under that scenario. forget all the other talk about the apples and nasdaq and the nvidias, et cetera. oil needs to come down, yields needs to come down, we got a problem. >> i think it is a triple whammy. i would throw the dollar into the mix as well. >> good point. >> and that's what's unique about this point in this cycle is that we have got both the dollar and oil going up. normally they're inversely correlated and just points to the unique circumstances in terms of why oil is moving up. it is not a demand story, it is a supply story. but i think what had been a very yield driven equity market, i think it has now become driven by the combination of yields, oil and the dollar. so i would agree. i think it is tough. if we were going to continue to

see that upper trajectory across all three areas, it is hard to see a scenario where equities can do well under that environment. >> how do you look at the idea of there is still just good competition elsewhere for people's money? you get 5% or close to that on a variety of different products that are out there. so we still have other places to make things work without taking as much risk perhaps in a risky part of theier. >> i think that's part of the reason why there has been this correlation where yields go up and equity market does not do well. because it offers that alternative on the safer end of the risk spectrum. and certainly for investors who in the environment were forced out into the riskier segments either of the fixed income market or the equity market and that's not the case anymore. it is precisely why notwithstanding a big move up today by utilities, utilities have been significant

underperformers relative to the s&p 500. that's where you're seeing some of the money that would have otherwise been in yield-oriented segments of the market, no longer need to take that added risk in equities because they can get it both on the short end of the yield curve and longer end of the yield curve. i think that absolutely has been a factor. >> in terms of rates and the fed, how much risk do you still there is regarding the fed that they're going to do more than we're willing to accept they might. and the fed speak has been mixed. you could say, waller and bostic suggest that we can be both slow and/or done. where as bullard and some others would suggest if the economy remains as strong as it is, we might have to do more. how much more real risk do you think is to the upside on fed policy? >> so, you know, the short answer is i don't know. that's the rub of the fed being data dependent with the data they're dependent on in the case of inflation being lagging in

nature. so, they're not all operating on a forward-looking playbook. we just, all of us, including the fed, waits for the incoming data. where there is a disconnect is not so much what they do with the september meeting, with the november meeting, we can all look at the fed watch tool on cme and see high likely hihood a pause, but the cuts priced in, that's where i think the disconnect still exists. that's what i'll be listening for when powell has the press conference is does he push back more forcefully on rate cuts being fairly aggressive in 2024 in an all else equal scenario, meaning even if disinflation continues to build in the pipeline, if we don't see more than just the cracks in the labor market that we have already seen, and the economy does more than just hang in there, it is hard to see that as a green light for rate cuts.

so i think it is the part that represents the disconnect between what maybe collectively fed officials particularly powell had been saying and what the market is still pricing in for next year. >> how do you feel about earnings? do you think that projections are still too optimistic or not? >> i think that they're not realistic because we're in a unique period, really have been since the worst part of the pandemic, in terms of lack of precise guidance coming from companies, where we're off that worst part of the pandemic where you had a record percentage of companies simply withdraw guidance altogether. there is more companies providing guidance but i think frankly a lot of companies maybe took it as an excuse the, you know, murky environment that meant withdrawn guidance and whether bringing it back, they're taking advantage of that happening and saying, we're not operating our business on this quarter to quarter precise, you

know, guide point in terms of cents per share. what i think that had the effect of doing is analysts are being a bit near near term to making adjustments for the estimates. for the most part, getting to the reporting season, listening to the commentary, maybe making an adjustment to one quarter down the road at most too, which just means i think those out estimates don't really reflect reality. if the economy weakens from here, they're probably too high. what i think is really important, like it was in the second quarter, for this upcoming season, is sort of two differentials, the differential between the beat on bottom line versus the beat on top line, nominal versus real and what we saw through second quarter reporting season was even though the beat rate was higher than average, the percent by which companies beat was higher than average, the revenue beat rate was much lower, showing that for companies that we're beating for the most part it wasn't because

demand was improving, it was because of cost cutting in order to protect the profit margins and that's one of the reasons why stocks that beat didn't perform all that well on the day they beat, relative to past seasons where the beat rate was similarly high and i think that dynamic is probably going to still be in play once we get to the third quarter earnings. >> when i hear you say you don't think earnings are realistic, my natural progression would be, well, then, you must not think the current valuation on the market is realistic either if you don't think that earnings are. >> so, yeah, i think the plug of the denominator in the pe equation is uncertain right now. we know with yields going up that, again, downward pressure on more highly valued segments of the market. the one thing i always remind investors of is that number one valuation is a terrible market

timing tool. i don't know there is any rate market timing tool, that's why people shouldn't try to do it. but valuation we think of as sort of this quantifiable thing. even if you don't have a lot of certainty on one of the components like the e, but the reality is valuation is as much a sentiment indicator or indicator of sentiment and so swings can happen there that really have nothing to do with the numerator or denominator, just has to do with the sentiment environment. so i think the market in a snapshot fashion is still fairly richly valued and that's where the yield correlation comes in to play. but if earnings are going to be on the trajectory, embedded in the consensus, going back up to double digit growth by the fourth quarter, then i think we're okay. i just think that that might be a bit unrealistic for all the reasons we're already discussed. >> let's broaden the conversation out if we could, bring in joe terranova and

nicole webb. joe is a cnbc contributor. joe, playing off what liz ann just said, fairly richly valued, valuations of the market because earnings are in her words not realistic. your response? >> well, i think it is fair to say that. i think we don't know ultimately where we're going to go with earnings until we begin to hear from companies in october. and i think that's why you're in this period right now, it is almost a period of purgatory where we are beholden to the macro. i think liz is spot on in terms of oil yields and the dollar leading ultimately where the tape is going to go. but let's remember, there is nowhere to hide now in the market. we keep pointing towards apple, we keep pointing towards the nasdaq. it is actually the russell down the most of the major indexes. >> russell is down 5% in a month and it is the only of the three -- only of the majors that is both down over three and six months as well. >> people tell you trade up high in quality, well, look at the debt market, investment grade is

struggling in the last couple of days, equal weighted strategies not performing, internationally, seeing emerging market currencies wiped away the gains. and even dividend strategies not working. i think it takes me back to where we are right now. there is absolutely a domino effect, scott, with what is going on in apple, and the domino effect is leading more towards what i believe is position management. i can't remember the 16 years i've been doing this where i came on air and i said the following, the short-term chart for intel looks better than the short-term chart for apple. intel is up 16% over the last nine trading days. so i think within the market you've got this position, risk management going on. it is affecting nvidia, down significantly. it is affecting broadcom, which is down significantly. but to the benefit within technology, this is why i think the nasdaq hangs in there, meta is okay, alphabet is okay,

microsoft, adobe, software etf, they're all okay. >> so, nicole if you go down the list, liz ann mentions oil is a problem, rising yields are a problem, the strong dollar is, earnings aren't realistic, nor are valuations when you put it all into the pot, you stir it up and pull it out, is that how you see it as well? look, the markets hung in there too. and the market has been remarkably resilient through everything that has been thrown at it for the most part and we have been through a little fit of the like of which we're experiencing now and we bounced right out of it in no time. >> last week you and i talked about the freight train that is megatechnology heading into the end of the year, and trying to make guesses around how we think about positioning into the end of the year and where that momentum comes from. and to your point and liz ann's point, you know, when we look at apple and look at the trickle through effect, yes, elevated

valuations, plus a little bit of geopolitical headline noise, the thought about competition entering pretty heated space, look at nvidia, qualcomm and we think about the headwinds we have, yes, interest rates, yes, oil, yes the u.s. dollar and also the one that we haven't mentioned yet today, the consumer weakening. and so the question then is there enough of a growth story in the tailwinds that are a.i. and productivity and perhaps a reacceleration in manufacturing and some of these pockets like normalizing that we're seeing in healthcare, is that enough? is that enough to kind of look at once the noise settles in the nasdaq trade, the repositioning underneath to lead us to, yes, it is a broadening, we're okay through year end, or maybe it is a flight to safety and to the end of the year. i think that's to be determined. we can't make a reflexive decision today based on recency

bias. >> so, liz ann, nicole mentions the consumer. maybe the biggest wild card at this point but incredibly strong, prop this market up, prop the economy up, more than i think anybody expected that the collective consumer would. the question is really is is there weakening now or not and if there is, what ultimately that's going to mean. how do you see that question playing out? >> i think that there is weakening, particularly if you don't just look at dollar sales across the spectrum of retailers, other areas where consumption resides. but unit sales. we all know what is happening in terms of the savings rate being down, the excess savings thesis, which youhave to find tooth comb that a bit based on where you sit on the income spectrum. that's starting to weigh on the increase in student loan payments and maybe less discussed is the impact on small business. which echoes to the consumer is

the irs sort of pulling back on these employee retention tax credits? i think there are a lot of forces now working against the consumer, but what clearly has kept the consumer relatively afloat has been tie into the like market and if we start to see more than the cracks that we're already seeing in terms of weakening payrolls, that i think could be the most important needle mover that would result in a much more clear picture of weakening consumer, skill tied to the labor market. >> joe? worry about that now? >> i think it hasn't been a worry at all. i think you have to worry about it. your indicators and financials and banks and look at what banks are doing now and how banks are in such a difficult position with the inability to really grow their loan books and also the concerns with regional banking. >> hold on a second. just going to stop you. the performance of financial stocks have not been a barometer of what the consumer is doing in any way, shape or form.

bank stocks have not done well. the consumer has been really strong. why would i look at the banks for the tail in what the consumer is doing when i can look at nordstrom's, macy's, they're saying delinquencies are going up and reports from other areas too related to the consumer that appear to be weakening. >> i think we're reaching a moment where the consumer is going to need the banks. the consumer has not needed the banks over the last 24 months because they were draining down the savings rate and relying on a lot of stimulus that was afforded to them as a result of the pandemic. now i think you're approaching the point where the reliance back on the banking industry is going to be there from the consumer. where you're going to have auto leases that are coming off of the zero percent or 1% private sector borrowing cost and the maturity is leading to the moment where they're going to realize, okay, now i'm going to have to go for that car lease, which is going to be financed at a much higher level. that's why the banks now are

more prominent in seeing where the consumers ultimately goes and hearing what the ceos are saying about the ability to grow the revenue books. the other thing on that as well is regional banks. let's not forget, i don't think regional banks recovered at all. >> that's why we talk about weakness in the russell. it is made up of smaller regional banks. the biggest part of it and why why the drag has been so dramatic on the russell. >> i think that is clearly a fundamental contribution versus some of the other areas of the market, which are more technically oriented, i think the regionals are trading off very poor fundamentals. >> liz ann, we look at tech pulling back, other areas of the market, we say okay as long as there is money going into areas particularly under performing ones, it brings me to energy which has been on a roll lately as we talked about one of the headwinds itself for the market, that being rising oil prices. do you see any kind of catch-up

trade for what was last year's best and has been this year's big underperformer? >> yeah. until recently energy was this year's biggest underperformer. that has to do with the obvious fundamental shift from energy having been the only dominant sector in terms of earnings growth, not just market performance. it is part of why when s&p did their growth in value index rebalancing, this is important for index investors who don't necessarily pay attention to what's in indexes, but mid-december, when s&p rebalanced, number one, all eight of the megacap eight used to be in s&p pure growth. after the december rebalancing, only one was left in pure growth, that was apple. the other seven went into growth and value. as a result of that, pure growth went from being 37% tech to only 13% tech and energy became the most dominant sector. russell didn't do their rebalancing until the end of june at which point energy didn't have those growth

characteristics. so it basically stayed with a heavy bias toward technology. so, we can talk about energy and tech and being these strange bedfellows, sometimes at the opposite end of the spectrum. but the message is make sure you understand what is in the indexes. >> yeah, good advice. last word to you, nicole. on energy, since we're talking about it, we have been talking about it a lot this week, it has been the only sector to talk about that has been in the green, how do you see that and then we're going to go? >> we see it playing out well into the end of the year. we see it as a laggard and from a relative valuation standpoint, we expect to see trimming across the megatech games. we look at where the money is likely to be repositioned, we think there is going to be fear of missing out, this idea if you believed in the risk off mentality heading into 2023, not going to be -- not going to want to be caught in that in 2024. looking at the leg ard names,

heading into end of years will be a thoughtful repositioning. >> thanks, everybody. liz ann, see you soon. nicole, you as well. joe, see you back here at post nine. our question of the day, does apple's current valuation of 29 times forward earnings justify it or not? two choices here. yes, it is justified or no, it is too expensive. head to @cnbcclosing bell to vote. over to kristina partsinevelos for a look at the top stocks she's watching. >> let's talk about the drop in am shares sparking a sell-off in tech stocks overall after reports that china has increased restrictions as scott alluded to. apple suppliers with large china exposure including broadcom, qualcomm, texas instruments, you can see on your screen all lower. qualcomm the largest exposure over 7%. speaking of china, several chinese tech names are also lower, like pdd holdings, alibaba, baidu, pick your

reason. baidu, tencent and alibaba have ordered roughly $5 million worth of nvidia chips. and investors are wondering if those orders are going to be at risk. nvidia shares down again today, almost 2% on track to break a three-week win streak. scott? >> kristina, thank you. we're just getting started. up next, apple shares slumping, stock down 7% in the past two sessions. so where does it bottom out? we'll ask star analyst dan ives, he's here at post nine with his take.

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introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. we have news out of ftx and regarding that story, kate rooney has it for us. kate? >> hi, scott. so a fourth ftx executive now pleading guilty. we have ryan salem, charged with conspiracy to make unlawful contributions and defraud the federal election committee. he plans to plead guilty to those criminal charges, this is according to salem's lawyer, and a court hearing going on now in lower manhattan. this is the fourth ftx executive, ryan salem was the co-chief executive officer of ftx digital markets. he is in court right now. sam bankman-fried's trial is kicking off in early october,

but ryan salem officially pleading guilty to those criminal charges. >> okay. kate, thank you. kate rooney with the latest there. shares of apple trading lower, extending losses on the back of china's reported iphone ban for government officials. that stock is suffering its worst back-to-back days in roughly three years. my next guest, though, thinks the setback in china among other headwinds are overblown. joining us live at post nine is wedbush's dan ives. good to see you. let's take the movement in the stock, in and of itself. what is happening? >> i think the biggest fear for apple has been the china exposure. i think the worry is that they were ultimately go to be caught in this cold tech war between u.s. and china. i think when you look at these reports, now it is 20% of iphone sales, 98% of actual production, could this disrupt the golden jewel of the cupertino growth story. >> could it? >> in my opinion, based on the work we have done, i believe

this is -- would i quantify it in terms of what it could be, i think worse case, we're talking about 500,000 units. relative to what's going to be 45 million units sold in china. we have been here before. i think year after year there is always the worries here, but all the work that we have done being in and out of asia and china, i think right now china is going to be up in terms of year over year and i think that market share gains continues to be some of the hearts and lungs of apple. >> doesn't it have the possibility of just revealing a more hostile environment in a real critical market where we just said 20% of revenues come from china. >> look, this is putting gasoline on the fire in terms of the worries. could this be the moment that the bears, many that have been fearing for apple and china, i don't believe so. i think you look at it, foxconn,

talking about one of the biggest employers in china, cook has been something where i think this is within beijing it has been a big part of his strategy in terms of the success, and i think most importantly, you look at the huawei phone and you look at can this be a risk, we're still talking about the b team. when you look at from an actual nanometer, technology perspective, the chinese consumer continues to want iphones and we believe you have that 80, 90 million of them in an upgrade opportunity. >> we asked our question of the day to our viewers about the multiple. 29 times forward. now it was over 30 not that long ago. even now it is far above its historical ten-year average, okay? can you justify that? if so, how? >> so i have always viewed it you have to view the services business as almost a sass business. 100 billion of revenue next year, growing now low double digits. i believe that is 1.4 to 1.5

trillion, the services business. the rest of the business, 1.4 to 1.5 trillion, we think more, how we have a $230 price target, i believe if you look at it on a straight pe, you underestimate what i view the value of the services piece, which is a key part of the rerating that we have seen in apple the last few years. >> i understand that. but how can you have an expanding multiple at a time where you had a decreasing sales growth? >> sure. >> tell me how that makes sense. >> i think, first off, you take out fx, you look at what iphone sales are, i think when you look into it next year, you have midsingle digit iphone growth from a unit perspective, based on all our checks out of asia, you have an asp, which is lifting. that's the big thing next week with -- >> they'll raise it. >> and we believe $100 price increase for the first time in years, but that's important for

an asp lift. >> you think that's going to happen? there is chatter, well, it is just rumor and this, that and the other. you think it is going to happen? >> i think nfl starts this weekend and apple raises by $100. >> you think that's a good thing. >> i think it is a great thing because ultimately when you look at the promotion activity, that's going to happen from a carrier perspective within the u.s., it is going to take away a lot of the sting and the most important thing right now is 25% of apple's install base there is one number that is important. 25% upgrade in four plus years. that's why we believe the bark is worse than the bite. china is going to continue to be a growth engine and i think we sit here, going to holidays, we view this more as a golden buying opportunity, not to time it structurally it fell apart. >> i'll see you in california at future proof and we'll be there together as apple does reveal that phone. >> it is such an important time,

not just because of every year, but because now the pressure, especially coming out of beijing, perceived pressures. >> i'll catch up with you there. that's dan ives of wedbush. school is in session. the dean of evaluation is with us. he'll give us his take on the recent pullback in tech. no one knows better valuations better. is the space overvalued or not? does it need to come in more? he'll tell us. don't forget to register for cnbc's delivering alpha conference. i'll be there with can't miss interviews including a sit-down with brad gerstner. the qr code is on the screen. we'll be right back. but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. ♪ ♪ connecting to opportunity is just part of the hustle. ♪ ♪

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more selling pressure. the sector leading to the downside for the second straight day. so is this a start of a greater september slump or a pause in this year's tech led rally? let's ask the dean of valuation,

aswath damodaran. professor, good to see you again. >> good to be back. >> so, how should we look at valuation? let's take megacap in general because it is not so absolute. just because something is deemed to be overvalued in somebody's mind doesn't mean it is, or doesn't mean that it matters at the all. >> right. i mean, i think that both parts of that statement is true. on a pricing basis, as much of a run-up as you had in the stocks, in a sense you go through the list, you are more likely to be overvalued than undervalued. you don't get a 40% run-up on companies of this size without expect something degree of overvaluation. so right now if i look at these companies, they're all either fully valued or overvalued. at the start of this year, four of those six stocks looked undervalued. middle of last year, all six looked undervalued. so i think it is part of the

boom and bust of these companies. and i think that if the market is going to be carried for the rest of the year, i don't think these companies can do it. so something has us step in and take their place and that's tough to do because they're big companies, huge market cap companies, but i think the big writeup on these stocks is pretty much done. >> but how do we quantify, professor, the a.i. opportunity that many of these stocks have gone up on and have seen their multiples expand by? >> microsoft and nvidia have something concrete to point to. they are direct beneficiaries of a.i. as it stands now. so some of that run-up is justified and the question is how much of a run-up? the remaining stocks is more theory than actual numbers right now. you can't point to something and say a.i. created that, and i'm skeptical about how much a.i. can add to the revenues. just because you're big tech,

doesn't mean you're going to benefit from a.i. i wait and see to see whether -- can benefit from a.i. as much as apple can. we have to wait on that. >> what about the market overall? given where interest rates are, we just had an interview with liz ann sonders who said earp i earnings expectations are not realistic in her mind. >> you know what i've been hearing about earnings projections for six quarters and every quarter what happens is people reset expectations. this quarter didn't happen, but next quarter it will. at some point in time you got to wonder whether the people who are making these statements about earnings projections not being reasonable are perhaps themselves making an sulassumpt

not worth y of putting into the numbers. i've been watching the earnings projection and it is low, earnings expectations are lower than a year ago, but not by that much, 3%, 4%. in a sense, analysts seem to be projecting the expectation, the earnings will be down because there is going to be some softening of the economy. but not going to be the kind of draw that puts stocks at risk. >> let me ask you, do you think the current market is fairly valued or not? >> i think given interest rates where they are, and the earnings expectations taken at face value, i'm okay with the market now. now, one or both of those numbers can be at risk. but could have said that about the market at any point in time over the last decade. so while we wait for interest rates and inflation to play out, i'm looking at the market and saying this is about where i expect the market to be. given where we are on the other fundamentals. >> interesting. that's why we like having you.

professor, thank you. we'll see you soon. up next, we're tracking the biggest movers as we head into the close. kristina partsinevelos has that. >> the weight loss drug market is expected to explode. 100 billion bucks by the end of this decade and one ticker could be a big winner. i'll explain why next. from big cities, to small towns,

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we're 15 from the close. back to kristina for a look at the stocks she's watching. >> shares of eli lilly rising today after a bullish call on the weight loss industry. jpmorgan saying the emerging of obesity and diabetes drug market could grow to $100 billion just in the next seven years which could mean big gains for eli lilly diabetes drug, which is expected to be approved by regulars soon to treat obesity. that's why shares are up over 2%. shares of hard drive provider seagate going in the opposite direction, down over 10% right now. barclays downgrading the name, blaming poor fundamentals and recovery that could take longer than expected. separately, seagate just yesterday also announced plans to sell up to $1.5 billion in convertible notes in order to pay down debt. both of those contributing to the 10.5% drop. >> thank you. kristina partsinevelos.

the question of the day, we asked is apple's current valuation of 29 times forward earnings justified or not? yes, it is, or no, it's too expensive. the results after this break. do not miss a cnbc exclusive interview, goldman sachs ceo david solomon sitting down with david faber 4:15 eastern during "overtime." "closing bell" right back.

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the results now of our question of the day, we asked is apple's current valuation justified or not? the majority of you said no. that it is too expensive. more than 57% of you voting there. up next, media stocks slam. we'll tell you what is driving the group lower. much more when we ta y si t mkezone.u businesses need 5g solutions today. that's why they choose t-mobile for business. mlb partners with t-mobile to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. aaa relies on t-mobile's network to stay connected nationwide, so they can help get their members back on the road. and we're helping pano ai innovate, to stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business.

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mike santoli here to break down the crucial moments of the trading day. julia boorstin tracking big moves in the media space today, including the escalating drama between disney and charter. and pippa stevens looking ahead to docusign, earnings out in ot today. mike, you first. what's on your mind? more of the same, right? >> apple is front and center. more of the same for sure. but i think that, you know, if you thought that apple being under severe pressure for a few days in a row was going to be, you know, the real thing that broke this market's back, i don't think you're seeing the evidence of that. you have apple, month to date, which is just four trading days, is down 5.5%. nvidia down 6%, four trading days, in september. the s&p is down a percent and a half, which means outside of the two stocks, the s&p slipped 1%. you have alphabet and amazon both up today. it is not as if the entire nasdaq is being swamped by what is happening in apple.

i think aside from that, none of the other big mac rro asset mov, the dollar looking like it is stretched to the upside and maybe going to be a challenge, but yields are quiet. all that boiled together suggests that it is just a little bit, like you said more of the same, but to me more of the same means we're just kind of in this pullback where you have a lot of put buying the last couple of days and huge amount of corporate debt sold and we have kind of absorbed it. to me, i don't look at this tape and say, it is super fragile here. you have banks down 5%, you know, this week, and the vix is yawning at 14.5. >> losses have been bought and most of these occasions and we'll see what happens, if tech does pullback more, the buyers are probably, you would think, going to come right in and snap these -- >> at some point, perhaps. look, maybe you have to do a little more work and get really oversold and have a better

perceived risk/reward tactically to get back in and get moving to the upside. mentioned -- i was mentioning in august that the pullback, we really didn't pull the slingshot back all that far. didn't get super oversold, barely touched the 5%. sometimes you need more than that. in general, we're tracking the 2021 path which suggests that september could still be a little bit messy, but beyond that, it is not necessarily game over. >> so julia boorstin, media stocks front and center today in some respects. disney too. which was below $80, that's a four-year prepandemic low. here we are, right at that level now. what are you watching? >> well, not just disney. media stocks are moving on the heels of a number of ceos sharing commentary at the conference over the past couple of days. warner bros. discovery shares down about 4% after last night's ceo spoke about pushing a new type of bundle.

forget about a la cart, the bundle is the thing. talked about the costs of the strikes potentially extending through the end of the year, which has prompted the company to lower its earnings expectations. meanwhile, paramount shares are down 3% after ceo bob bakish yesterday spoke about the pressures on the tv business and his plans to raise prices again on the direct to consumer streaming services. roku shares are down another 3% after yesterday announcing that the company's laying off 10% of its workforce with loop downgrading the company to hold. and there was one big winner today. fubo tv up 13%, up about 30% for the week after charter offered its subscribers a discount. there is so much attention now on the charter versus disney standoff. >> julia, thank you. julia boorstin. now to pippa stevens, docusign earnings in overtime, talking

about a pandemic name, this was one of them. >> that's right. a poster child for the pandemic surge and expectations are perhaps nmuted here after peers pointed to ongoing secular headwinds and last quarter the cfo said macro uncertainty for customers led to smaller deal sides sizes. so billings growth and guidance are the key things to watch here. jpmorgan noted that some conservatism is already baked in, meaning there could be a surprise to the upside. updates around the company's product diversification strategy is key. it was a pandemic darling and post pandemic growth has been stuttering here. shares are down about 20% over the last six months. underperforming competitors including box and dropbox. >> pippa, thank you. we'll see what happens in overtime. mike, we had the sound effect for the two-minute warning. this pullback of sorts in tech

has allowed other sectors to wake up. healthcare and energy. >> yeah. energy is definitely sort of asserted itself. over a long cycle, over a long point to point multiyear, energy doesn't tend to either be fully cyclical or to be fully defensive or always to be valued but it does tend to diversify against the other types of -- so right now at a time when cyclical outperformance pulled back, the pure safe haven trades aren't working, energy is able to pick up the slack, there has been a bid in the pure defensives here which always kind of happens as a pullback matures. >> procter. >> exactly. and people talking about utilities have been just radically washed out in this move. so we'll see if that means a change in sentiment in tone or just kind of, you know, look, we sent these things too deep in their pullbacks for the short-term and see what comes of

it. energy, with crude hesitating here, we see what it has. >> see if that settles down. we're going to watch yields for the reminder of the week. i'll see you tomorrow. dow is going to go green. not everything else, though. s&p, nasdaq, russell, all in the red. i'll see you tomorrow. "ot" with morgan and jon right now. the dow is higher. got your score card on wall street. welcome to "closing bell: overtime." i'm jon fort with morgan brennan. >> we have got a major interview coming your way in just a few moments. goldman sachs ceo david solomon will join our david faber exclusively from the sidelines of the conference in san francisco for a wide ranging conversation. >> let's begin with the market action. the nasdaq posting t