make the case for investors in goldman sachs, especially at a time when there's a lot of question marks around banks. i thought some of the comments, banks being regulated , we've dg into that and continue to do. that's going to do it for us here at "overtime." >> "fast money" starts now. live from the nasdaq market site in the heart of new york city's times square, this is "fast money." here's what's on tap tonight. the nasdaq dropping for the fourth straight day as apple keeps dragging the index lower. the tech tie on the down over 6% in the last two days. is this all about the crackdown in china? and if so, how worried should companies like nike, tesla, be right now? a deep dive coming up. plus, $100 billion opportunity. that's how big jpmorgan says the market for weight loss drugs could be. just how much could that mean for the biggest players in the space? we'll debate that. and later, are you ready for some football? and some sports betting.

nbc's magic wall maestro steve kornacki will take us inside the numbers. i'm melissa lee, coming to you live from studio b at the nasdaq. on the desk tonight, tim sey seymour, karen finerman, steve grasso and bonawyn iceson. the biggest stock in the world has also been the dow's biggest loser two days in a row. the slide starting after a report china will expand its iphone ban to state-owned companies. semis tied to apple feeling the heat. qualcomm down 7%. taiwan semi down more than 2%. is this just giving us a taste how big the impact of a china crackdown could be, and what other companies could face the wrath of beijing next? we have been saying this again and again, it is just up to china to decide how big the restrictions will be. >> and i think we have to be careful not to overstate what has happened here. >> too late. >> well, you're right. this is what happens in financial media. but the fact that you can't use

your iphone at work doesn't mean you can't go out and buy an iphone and we're banning the company, and tim cook of all the major ceos and the biggest company in the world, has done a fantastic tight rope act here in trying to balance -- there's social issues, dynamics around the economics, there's fox kon, there's everything. i think this is important. i think it's important, because, in fact, it does look like china is responding and fighting back. i think what is more important to this news cycle is that it's quince dent with the release of a very important phone in china. huawei, the mate 60, which has chip design, which is seemingly been able to kind of reconstitute a 5g phone would having 5g chips, because huawei is under major restrictions from the u.s. it's at a time when apple's had declining sales and what it does, it just projects, what's the multiple that you want to put on this company? doesn't change apple's business that dramatically, i think. i think the concept of what we're talking about, we're going

to continue to talk about it, and we should talk about it. i just want to make sure we're not overstating this news. >> sure. but the context is also that china's macro looks -- >> terrible. >> awful right now. and there are headwinds there for the chinese consumer. hey, you know, you cannot use an iphone at work. maybe that person chooses a huawei phone -- >> and they are. >> and incrementally, that could still hit revenue there. >> i think that's the bigger issue. can the chinese consumer afford iphones at the same pace? and to me, it's about rates having moved up and mublt pls needing to move down. they were getting such a big multiple. steve and were talking about this. there's a high multiple of 30ish. the software business is trading way higher than 30. so, we've seen multiples for those kinds of businesses come down. so, this is kind of an excuse to -- for the selloff, but i don't think in and of itself this news should be at 8% or 9%

move in apple. i just think that it was too high. >> you know what, i think -- investors are in a situation where they are shooting first and asking questions later. i never thought that would be the case with apple. that's the biggest shock there for me, but the selling is coming before any material development in this particular news cycle. now, it's lost about $200 billion of market cap. you want to ask yourself, is the move really worth that? i would say no. however, i think that speaks to the fact that question just don't know if there is some volatility around the situation. and given the whimsical nature of what the chinese government may do in retaliation, will they keep it here, will they expand it to state-owned enterprises, will the bans be -- will there be a shadow ban where you shouldn't affiliate yourself by purchasing the phone? we truly don't know. i don't think it's a complete surprise, given the rate environment that you mentioned, that there was some selloff. >> global companies view themselves as global companies,

but in china, companies are viewed as belonging to a nation. it is a u.s. company. and that's the way apple -- >> well, tim stated it on the opening. tim cook and elon musk have done a masterful job, those are the two ceos that have done a masterful job at being agnostic. anybody that's not considered u.s. and just independent, it's those two. that's number one. number two, bonawyn said that he -- shooting first -- i don't think they shot first, because if you look at it, it's only down 8%, right? guy sat here last night and said, shouldn't it be down more if you are shooting first and not asking questions? and then getting back to the amount of phones that are really in question, dan ives is talking about, he sees it being 500,000 phones. the market is probably pricing in 5 million phones at this point. so, they are shooting first. the problem is, they're running out of bullets. so, you saw this stock today, it bounced. does it continue to bounce?

i think so. i bought it yesterday, i bought it again today. i don't think that anyone should rush out and buy 100% of whatever they think their position's going to be. but when you look at the services arm, that's growing. that's the growth. karen talks about hardware, they're separating themselves from the hardware dynamic of being that company, yes, they get an exorbitant multiple. >> bank of america said, you should take a look at app store revenue in the coming quarter, because that's where you will see, if app store revenue slows down, because in china, it's 26% of total revenue. >> impressive. and the higher margin revenue. >> it's the higher margin revenue. that's where you'll see it. so, we'll get that data in terms of how effective that ban is in terms of being enforced and so on from that -- >> and i bring us back to yesterday's news around the eu. it seems to me that the eu is really looking at the app star. they're calling on the

gatekeeper, and -- i think there's multiple dynamics. we're talking about the multiple. we're talking about the global macro. i think we have to talk about just within the market space and we talk about equal weighed etfs versus market cap weighed. and what we know and the data we're getting is that the data flow is going to equal weighed etfs. you look at today, though, let's be clear. apple was a significant underperformer to google, to amazon, to anyone else in the megacap tech space. it's not by accident. and i think it's a combination, let's highlight. september 12th is a big day for the company, yet it's, you know, that's the whole point. if september 12th and the release of the 15 is not that big of an event -- i'm not saying it whats to be. and you'll point out, steve, they haven't been big events for a long time. >> and they normally run up into that event, so, maybe now that event won't be the sell on the news day that it's normally been, because it sold off prior to that event. >> i just think it's not a

coincidence, though, that you're running into this kind of pressure also with the big release date. >> and we mentioned qualcomm and taiwan semi, but if you look specifically at the apple suppliers, skyward was down 7%. >> yeah, apple was one of the biggest beneficiaries with this huawei ban. so, i don't think it should come as a complete surprise. they added massive market value, mainly at huawei's expense. i would expect there so be some collapsing. i think to put it in context, as we all have been really trying to do here, we still don't know all of the data yet, and it's going to start trickling out. 8%, perhaps, isn't a complete kill shot, but that's a material move for a name that -- first name that people rush into when they -- >> the qqqs, you said it last night, as apple goes, so does the market, is that the question? and you have apple, microsoft, and amazon account for 25% of

the qs. >> right. >> so, if this starts to expand, that it's not just apple and it's all of those top names, then how do you mount a rally, because if those names don't perform, the market doesn't perform. period. >> that's the question. you know, you shhold nike. we've been saying this for a long time, karen. the exposure that u.s. companies have to china, in terms of, you know, the thesis that that's going to be the growth market -- >> and it used to be. >> it used to be. and now maybe that's a discount to their business. >> well, i'll say this. in terms of incremental growth of one's business, i mean, the aggregate base in china may not be growing as fast, but it's still a massive base to go out and attack. and a lot of brands are still going there. but this also comes -- there was terrible export data out of china, so, it's what we say. part of this is the chinese economy. part of these are the geopolitics. i don't think the geopolitics get better, i think they get worse. and it is interesting on a day when semiconductors got slammed, intel, the american flag-waving

chip play, was up big. and i think it's more than a coinc coincidence. i think there are home team favorites. there are national champion companies. and intel really hasn't covered itself in glory relative to its global peers, but that has something to do with why it his higher. >> our next guest says global companies are going to have to fight to be in china. our guest now, great to get your take on this. do you think that it gets worse? do you think when you look at other companyies that do busines in china, where there are alternatives, in theory, that china will favor the home team, or another team, that's not a u.s. team? >> well, you raised an interesting point, melissa. the real question is, have we entered a retaliatory tit for tat cycle like we saw during the trade war. and if we have, it's possible we have, then, there are some sectors, some companies that i

think will have some challenging. i think in aviation, boeing, i think china has an alternative in their mind. they're happy to play airbus off of boeing. they have a domestic brand, the c-919 and c-929. they think they have an alternative there. automobiles. look, tesla, we've been talking about this for quite some time. gm, possibly, are at risk with byd. just this past week, we saw byd in europe at the munich auto show and their message was, we're beating you in our home market, and we're coming to europe to beat you in your market. so, you know, i think there are a lot of concerns here about whether or not we are, in fact, in this retaliatory cycle, and if we are, melissa, even though companies may see themselves and multinational brands, global companies, frequently, governments and citizens, particularly nationalist citizens, with the rise in

populous movements around the world, don't see companies as multinational. they see a flag attached to them. and if you're going to china, you have to understand, there are a lot of competitors there, you're going have to get into a competition mind-set, and the chinese have their own widgets, and they're looking to sell them, not just in china, but in third markets, as well. >> it's karen, thank you for being on. is some of this on the heels of the secretary's visit? it seems like the rhetoric escalated after that. >> look, i think the chinese have been sort of hot under the collar for quite some time about the way their businesses have been treated, and this was a great way with the huawei announcement, moving to seven nanometers, something that the commerce department has been very involved in in terms of the chip ban, all of this is consequence dental, but too coincidental for those of us who watch china. i think the timing here says a

lot about what china is looking to do. and it's really to send a signal, that we are not going to be stopped, you can slow us down, but that we will continue to do what it takes to have indigenous development, to be self-reliant to the degree that we can, and this is the challenge, karen. i'm not sure if they're going to win this over the long-term, but i think they certainly feel comfortable that they sent a strong signal right after the secretary's trip. >> it's tim. you said this in your note, china rarely takes actions that will harm china with no alternative. is the point now that huawei's ready? do we really feel like we've actually -- this phone sold out in hours. and it's priced below apple, at a time when the consumer is under pressure. and it's not a low cost phone. it's $965. but is the point that huawei is ready to challenge? and china would be okay if they had to push on in a world where there was really more opposition to apple? >> yeah, i think that's the

message here, tim. i'm not sure they're ready. you made a point before i came on about sort of right-sizing this news. this mate 60 is an impressive phone. i think it surprised washington for sure, but it's 7 nanometers. apple in a couple of days will debut their 15 pro, that's a 3 nanometer chip. so, there's still a lot of room here between seven and three. but the chinese are very comfortable they don't are to be the best, they just have to be good enough to dominate their market. and quite frankly, the mate 60 pro may be at 7 nanometers just good enough. so, that's the question i think we have. but it certainly got the attention of many here in washington. so, we may see, when congress returns, a discussion about a broader yard and a taller fence, as jake sullivan likes to say, about smaller yards and high fences here. >> so, last quick question, because we are just about out of

time, but -- it sounds like you think this gets worse? >> i'm fearful, melissa, that we are entering into a tit for tat retaliatory cycle like we saw during the trade war. and to tim's point, and i've made this point in my note, china's going to look for places where they can do this where they have an alternative. think about what they did with soybeans. they had a reliable alternative with brazil and russia, so, they were prepared to really level on the tariffs with soybeans. you'll see some of the same action, if we are, in fact, back in one of these escalatory, retaliatory ladders. i hope not, but i fear that we are. >> dewardric mcneal, thank you. >> we have pretty good options, too. there's india, there's south korea, there's vietnam, there's other options, so, china's not the only one with options. and karen just said, what happened after the secretary was there? she got hacked, right? >> well, yeah. >> she got hacked and she was not happy with that and she told

the chinese officials she was hacked, was not happy about that. so, that's what's been racheting a lot of this, i would guess. >> you bought apple twice? >> yeah, i think china is all bark, no bite at this point. i think we have them versus they have us, to be honest with you. >> all bark, no bite? >> no, i'm not willing to go there. i think they have a bite. i think whether or not their bite is as vicious as they think they're willing to bite. that's the scary thing. the distance between a seven and three -- >> it's four. >> in her head -- >> good math. went to harvard. >> it is a big difference. >> yes. in terms of the implications of the technology. and so, the fact that they're flexing their muscle there seems like -- insignificant tit for tat, or irresponsible one. i think the barriers to entry in being able to produce soybeans are light years away from producing that tech knowledge. david solomon wrapping up an interview with david faber. he addressed a wide range of

top topics. david faber joins us from goldman's -- >> that's the one -- that one is in november. >> it was a corn kobe ya, too, melissa. good job on the math there between seven and three. you got that going. >> i try. >> yeah. listen, as you might expect, we spent a good amount of time on that unusual spate of stories from major news organizations that really dealt with the subject of mr. solomon's personality, and whether, in fact, it was getting in the way, to a certain extent, of his management of the firm. but you know, for our purposes, of course, his comments about the calpital markets and m&a centered for what we care about. next week, you guys will be talking about ipos, arm pricing on the 13th, trade on the 14th

of september. i asked solomon, is he feeling better about the ipo market and the capital markets as a whole? >> i definitely do feel better about the capital markets, and if you ask me to kind of look ahead, you know, over the course of the next few months, especially if arm and some of these other ipos go well, i think you're going to see a meaningful increase in activity. now, david, it's afternoon anemic -- >> nothing happened last year. >> no, it's -- investment banking activity, if you go back to the second quarter, investment banking activity in the second quarter was a ten-year low. it's not hard to improve off that, but i think we could very quickly get back to what i'd call a more normalized level of activity in the capital markets, and that's obviously very, very good for goldman sachs. >> instacart will soon follow, guys. so, a lot to focus on. when it came to m&a, solomon a more positive forecast, at least, talking about dialogue

starting to pick up. something i've been hearing, talking to the practitioners, whether they be lawyers or bankers in terms of at least conversations, which need to take place before you can get announcement of deals. sort of indicated that will be fourth quarter and into 2024. but those are still the key businesses for goldman sachs, obviously trading and the capital markets and advising on m&a, melissa, far more than the roughly 5% that consumer banking represents, even though, of course, that also, in addition to mr. solomon's personality, has gotten a lot of attention of late. >> is he dj-ing less? i'm half -- i'm only half joking. because that was one of, you know, one of the many gripes, personality hlighted in the numerous articles about him and his tenure. the fact that he's a dj on the side. so, i'm wondering how he sort of tried to reclaim his image. >> yeah, i -- you know, i think

it's a process. i think, for my purposes today, we asked those questions that i think felt necessary to ask, given, again, that really unusual spate of publicity, specific to some many different anonymous quotes, basically saying he's a very difficult guy, in nice terms. i did ask him if he's going to dj again, he didn't answer the question. i took it as a no. and i think, melissa, it's been as much as a year since his last appearance as far as i'm aware, so -- that is something that he has clearly cut back on, as well. >> all right. david, thank you. david faber joini ing us from o west. we bring this up, because, you know, it is always fascinating to talk about personalities when it comes to ceos, but for a time, there were questions if he would continue to be ceo or if he days were numbered. >> are you saying that as if the questions are no longer there? >> i don't know. the drum beat was loud and steady. >> uh-huh. >> and it's not as much anymore.

>> well, i think he was trying to talk a little bit about, okay, we're past that consumer business, right? >> right. >> so, that was obviously a big waste of time, money, resources, didn't work out, so you good for them for exiting it. it's amazing to me that goldman sachs, which, really, you think of the best of the best in a lot of ways, traded 1.1 something times tangible book value. that's kind of amazing to me. and yet i haven't felt compelled to own it. >> why? >> they're talking about m&a, investment banking, those sort of revenue streams don't trade at a great multiple. so even if activity improves, i don't think that's a solid footing as, for me, jpmorgan is the place to go. >> all right. coming up, a uaw strike could be just days away, and the union just responding to the latest proposal from one big atoe maker. the details and how a work stoppage should impact the entire industry, next. and up, up and away. we are getting in on the greenback with the dollar on pace for an eight-week winning streak. so, how are the options pits

cashing? we'll find out when "fast money" returns. ♪ old school wisdom, with a passion for what's possible. that's what you get from the morgan stanley client experience. you get listening more than talking, and a personalized plan built on insights and innovative technology. you get grit, vision, and the creativity to guide you through a changing world. ♪

every day, businesses everywhere are asking: to guide you throuis it possible?orld. with comcast business... it is. is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? we can help with that. can we provide health care virtually anywhere? we can help with that, too. is it possible to survey foot traffic across all of our locations? yeah! absolutely. with the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from comcast business. it's not just possible. it's happening. we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far.

(chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. welcome back to "fast money." the clock is ticking on a potential strike in the auto space. the president of the united auto

workers calling gm's latest attempt to sidestep a stalemate, quote, insulting. phil lebeau has more on the negotiations. seems like we're at a standstill, phil. >> we are, but there's progress that is being made. it's not like there's no negotiations, and they work on a bunch of stuff before they get to the really meaty stuff, and that's always at the very end. here's what's happening today. as we speak, representatives from the uaw are meeting with ford again, ford's giving them another counteroffer. whether or not ford releases that, i don't think they're planning on doing that, but who knows. and then there's general motors. you look at shares of general motors, today, the company said, okay, you want a counteroffer from us, here's our counteroffer. 16% over four years, 10% initially, and then two lump sum payments over the course of four years of 3%, that's how gm gets to 16%. also a $5,500 signing bonus. there's usually a signing bonus when the contracts are ratified. a few hours after that was released, what did the uaw say?

shane shawn fain called it insulting and going on to say gm either doesn't care or isn't listening when we say we need economic justice at gm by 11:59 p.m. on september 14th. the clock is kicking. stop wasting our members' time. tick tock. >> dramatic. >> similar to what we've hear from him, with gm or ford, throwing the proposal into the garbage can on facebook live. this wall, do we have the wall? the wall showing -- it's really all about whether or not the automakers have afford to pay -- how much more can they afford to pay? and you see where they are, relative to the foreign automakers in the u.s., and then there's the estimate for tesla, considerably lower. by the way, with regard to ford and ste land tis, there's coucount cou counteroffer talks going on between the uaw and ford. ste land tis will be making another counteroffer tomorrow to the uaw, bottom line is, didn't think we see anything really

until middle to end of next week, and again, most people i've talked with in the auto industry do not believe this is going to be resolved by next thursday at 11:59 p.m. >> wow. 97% of members have voted in favor of a strike. >> well, they voted to -- say to the union leadership, you think it's time to go, call the strike. >> is that -- >> that's normal. that is normal. all they're saying to the leadership is, you ultimately make the decision. and then we'll go from there. >> what is gm's leverage at this point? >> gm's leverage -- gm's leverage to the rang and file is, do you really want to go through with this? we're going to give you a healthy raise and we're not going to give you 40%. nobody's going to give them 40%. but 16% is not going to cut it according to the uaw. now the question becomes, how much more can they afford to pay? i think a great stat came from adam jonas, about a week, week and a half ago. take a guess, what percentage of

ford's global revenue, annual global revenue is eaten up by uaw cost? >> 4%. >> ah, you are right. but how much -- if they give them -- say they give them 25%, how much more is that going to hurt them? maybe a percentage and a half. it's not the end of the world. but it is substantial if you're ford. you're saying, wait a second, that's really going to cut into our margins, and i think adam jonas said maybe a 20% hit is what is estimated, if they did that. so, you know, they'll come to an agreement. we all know that, but i do think that we're trending towards a strike. all signs, everybody i've talked to said we're headed towards a strike. >> but a strike is ultimately going to be disruptive for both sides. >> yes. >> and you've seen this before in terms of the negotiation tactics. and we're supposed to be the traders on this, but there's no question to me that we've been pricing in this news for a long time. karen and i sit and bang our heads on the desk every night about gm and its multiple and how effective they've been on

their execution and really where they've been on free cash flow. i feel like this is -- this is a great time, because we've exhausted all of these arguments on both sides and at some point, there is going to be some clarity here. may not be good, but it's going to be clarity and these stocks are getting destroyed. >> phil, how much do you think the -- i understand strike seems inevitable at this point, but at what point do the workers start to get fractured in their -- th does the solidarity get fractured? not like the writers' strike so, this is a different dynamic. >> it is. but it's a different time from this perspective. whether you're a uaw member or any other labor union, you've got a little bit more of a cash cushion than you had, let's say eight years ago. you just feel a little bit better in terms of being able to withstand a strike. doesn't mean you like it, you're like, yeah, sure, i'll walk off the line for five, six, seven weeks. you're going to get 500 bucks a

week if you are striking. now, look, if you are not at a plant that goes on strike, you'll have to file for unemployment, that's how it usually works. and, you know, you're not happy about it, but you're ultimately, you're buying into the idea, i'm going to get x percent raise at the end of the day and i have to go through this. >> phil, thank you. phil lebeau. there's lot more "fast money" to come. here's what's coming up next. another day, another dollar gained? or like another week? the almighty greenback about to notch an eighth straight week of gaines. and the options pits are throwing their two cents in. plus, weight loss drugs working wonders on the waist line, but the potential market is doing anything but slimming down. just how big the industry could grow to be. you're watching "fast money," live from the insnasdaq market e in times square. we're back right after this.

however you see fit. rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. clink! dr. marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. emily used part of her refund to buy... i run a wax museum. let innovation refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com you really got the brows.

welcome back to "fast money." the u.s. dollar is about to do something it hasn't done in more than eight years. the greenback is on pace to notch its eighth straight week of gains for the first time since february 2015. options traders have their eyes on another major currency that could rocket higher. mike khouw has the action. mike? >> taking a look at fxy, that is the etf that tracks the japanese yen, obviously, that's been very weak all year. traded more than eight times its average daily call volume today. the busiest contract were the january 2025 66 strike calls. buyers pay ing for those hands. buyers of these are expecting

fxy to go above 70 in the next year or so. >> thank you for that, mike khouw. for more options action, tune into the full show, that's tomorrow, 5:30 p.m. eastern time. coming up, just how big could the market for weight loss drugs be? one analyst is looking for a huge surge. what it means for competition in the space, even as a new use case is being investigated. the names that could see outsized gains next. plus, walmart giving a new spin to the term rollback. the move by the big box retailer that could give the real read on the strength of the labor market. we'll discuss that when "fast money" returns. missed a moment of "fast?" follow the "fast money" podcast. we're back right after this. good luck. td ameritrade, this is anna. hi anna, this position is all over the place, help! hey professor, subscriptions are down but that's only an estimated 15% of their valuation.

do you think the market is overreacting? how'd you know that? the company profile tool, in thinkorswim®. yes, i love you!! please ignore that. td ameritrade. award-winning customer service that has your back. (fan #1) there ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about! td ameritrade. (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them. (hero fan) this plan is amazing! (josh allen) another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. (fan #1) that was josh allen. (fan #2) mmhm. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley.

power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley.

welcome back to "fast money." stocks mixed to end the day. the dow up 57 points, the nasdaq down nine-tenths of a percent. some afterhours movers here. shares of docusign higher, and rh dropping after issuing weak q-3 revenue and operating margin outlook. meantime, a huge call from jpmorgan sending shares of novo

nordisk and eli lilly. the u.s. diabetes drug market could hit $100 billion in sales a year. it could crack $50 billion by the end of the decade. eli lilly hit another all-time high today. for more, let's bring in jared holz. great to have you with us. >> great to see you, thank you. >> you know, it seems like these drugs, glp-1s, they could be the cure-all for not just, you know, obesity, but for diabetes potentially, entirely, in terms of eliminating the use or need for insulin, in terms of addictions of all sorts, in terms of alzheimer's, in terms of sleep apnea. so, why should we be skeptical when a note says $100 billion eventually? it's the cure-all drug, it seems. >> i mean, maybe we shouldn't be at this point. i think the -- the reason to be skeptical probably comes down to a couple of things. it comes down to, you know, how

big of a target these drugs wind up being for payers, the manage care companies and how they kind of navigate the next several years from a demand standpoint and from a pricing standpoint and an access standpoint. that would probably be, you know, maybe the biggest deterrent. and then, the second is just pricing longer term. but if these drugs are really cure-alls like, you know, we're kind of finding them out to be, you know, then maybe the amount of skepticism with respect to the market size, we have to kind of think about a little bit. >> are we sort of in a goldy looks place right now, where the belief and the hopes for the drugs are still in the stocks, and we're not yet at a point where it is proven that it will reduce cardiac events? it is proven that it will reduce the symptoms of amzlzheimer's? they become targets, eventually,

of government negotiations and other sort of price controls, scrutiny by the u.s. government in terms of the ability to price these drugs. >> totally. i agree with all of that. i think as time goes on and we kind of see what the net effect is for patients that are on these drugs longer term, you know, we're going to kind of find out what the real opportunity is. and yes, i think we're -- we're talking about some really blue sky scenarios for novo and lilly here, and they are probably not unfounded. the stocks have been incredible performers, outperformeder other pharma company, pharma stock in the peer group. this is the core run why. and we'll have to see how this all plays out, but to have a small study in "the new england journal" from the university of buffalo that had less than a dozen patients have this profound effect on the stocks, and then also have an impact on the broader diabetes space, on the medical device side, is

very, i think, significant, because these studies are going to continue to happen, and they're likely going to be larger in scale as we move forward. >> jared, it's karen, thanks for being on. it sounds like you're a little bit skept came. the big number, $100 billion, yet their price target was $600, which is really very far at all. one day, two days trading away from where we are. you sound a little more skeptical. how far ahead of these big numbers do you think the stock might be now? >> well, karen, i'm not so skeptical that their revenue numbers can get to these levels, $50 billion, $100 billion over time. it's theoretically possible, if the price point is where it's at now, you know, it doesn't take that many patients to get to those type of levels. so, i'm not super skeptical on that. i just feel like the very, very bullish outlook and the estimates that are out there are probably not all that helpful for the stocks over the course

of time, because the bar becomes so high, and if for any reason, they should stumble along the way, that's where i think you run into a problem. it just doesn't have the same appeal where by the analyst community kind of like allowed for raises with $100 billion market size, i just don't know how much more we can get over the next couple of years, in terms of modeling. >> as lilly and novo, as the story there gets better and better, it seems like the story gets worse and worse for dexcom and resmed. they are going to be speaking at the bank of america health care conference next week. what is the narrative that these ceos can give investors at this point to say, you know what, our business is not going to be eaten away by the impact of these semiglue tides? >> i don't know what the narrative that they're going to kind of portray over the next

couple of weeks is going to be. you know, a couple of these companies are at broker-sponsored conferences in the health care arena this week, and they've tried to dispel some of the worry as far as what the glp-1 category is going to do to their businesses, particularly on the diabetes side. and it really hasn't worked overly well. i just feel like, you know, i really want to take a step back and reassess some of these s stocks in the medical device space. i just don't know if they're going to work, because this overhang is going to persist for a number of quarters, years, to the point where i really don't know what management teams can say to get investors to think there's nothing here. >> jared, thanks. good to see you. steve, where are you on this? >> novo and lilly are by a large margin, as jared said, outperformed the entire group. but i think the problem, though, is that not everyone who is classified as obese is going to

run out and take a pill. so, resmed is getting hit hair and i'm not saying go out and buy the stock now, but they're assuming that everyone with a weight issue is going to take a pill. and i don't think -- >> what if it's some people with a weight issue, some people with cardiac issues, some people with addictions, and you add that up -- >> they're already taking those pills, though. i hear you on the holy grail, but they're already taking pills. >> how do you project out the revenues around these drugs when you just saw what's happened with the -- with the medicare negotiating? so, for instance, fine, even if all those use cases are applicable, how long do these people have to be taking these drugs and are the dosages staying, are they becoming more intermint went? i just don't really see how there's much upside left that has not already been priced in. coming up, are you ready for some football? kickoff is in a few hours. we're talking touchdowns and fumbles in the sports betting

space ahead. but first, walmart is rolling back pay. what that could say about the state of the labor market. those trades and more when "fast money" returns .

♪ is it possible to fall in love with your home... ...before you even step inside? ♪ discover the magnolia home james hardie collection. available now in siding colors, styles and textures. curated by joanna gaines.

there are some things that go better... together. burger and fries... soup and salad. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together can help you make smarter decisions. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected.

welcome back to "fast money." walmart's latest roll back is hitting employees' paychecks. cutting starting pay for new hires. the retailer says it is meant to normalize pay across positions. but what does this say about the state of the labor market, they're able to say, you know, we're not going to pay as much. maybe that's a good thing for retailers and businesses. >> yes, and i think it's a good thing for the fed, right? this is what they wanted. if they could get either a higher unemployment, which isn't ideal, but an acceptable collateral damage, or lower wages, that's helpful. however, for that consumer, who is that walmart worker, is getting less, we've already seen them be a little bit sort of, you know, pinched between gas prices, it's -- net net it's probably good for the market. coming up, we're ready. we are ready for some football. and our favorite political watcher turned pig skin pundit is here to handicap which teams are in the best shape to win it

all this season. we'll kick things off right after this quick break. introducing watsonx a platform designed to multiply output by tailoring ai to your needs. when you watsonx your business, you can build ai to help coders code faster, customer service respond quicker, and hr handle repetitive tasks in less time. let's create ai that transforms business with watsonx. ibm. let's create. what do you get from the morgan stanley client experience? listening more than talking, and a personalized plan ♪ to guide you through a changing world. ♪ i've spent centuries evolving with the world. that's the nature of being the economy. observing investors choose assets to balance risk and reward. with one element securing portfolios, time after time.

gold. agile and liquid. a proven protector. an ever-evolving enabler of bold decisions. an asset more relevant than ever before. gold. your strategic advantage. at pnc bank, you can find us in big cities and small towns across the us, where our focus is to always support the people who live and work there. because you call these communities home, and we do too. pnc bank. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network.

here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. welcome back to "fast money." place your bets, because football is back. the nfl season is about to kick off in just a couple of hours, with the detroit lions facing off against the kansas city chiefs. nbc's steve kornacki joins us with a look at the betting odds and some of the preseason favorites. hey, steve. >> hey, how you doing? yeah, we are about 2 1/2 hours away from kickoff 2023. these are the final preseason

odds heading into the season. we broke them down by conference. these are the top seven in each conference. so, there are some other teams you don't see here, but sthees are the top choices in each conference to win the super bowl. and you see the overall favorite across both conferences to win the super bowl this year, it's the kansas city chiefs. they are favored to repeat. they are 6-1, as we enter the season. the second choice, right behind them, it's the team the chiefs just beat in the super bowl last year, the philadelphia eagles, they start out at 13-2, basically 6 1/2-1. the odds makers are thinking rematch. in the entire super bowl history, we've only ever had one rematch in a super bowl of the previous year's super bowl, that was dallas/buffalo, about 30 years ago. some other notes here on this screen here, how about the jets? you don't usually see them with odds this low, with expectations this high. that has everything to do with aaron rodgers going from green bay to new york. huge expectations there.

the cowboys sitting at 14-1. are they snake bit in the postseason? they haven't been to the n ffc title game since the 1995 season. but they look like a contender this year, at least on paper. you see the chiefs the overall favorite to win the super bowl. how does the overall favorite do? i don't want to say it's a jinx, but they usually don't win the super bowl. only twice in the last 15 seasons has the preseason favorite actually gone on to win the super bowl. number of them have made it and lost. the last three super bowl winners, though, and this includes the chiefs last year, were double-digit odds in the preseason. the chiefs were 10-1 a year ago, the bucs were 10-1, the rams were 12-1. so, recent history says it's not going to be one of the long long shots, but it's not necessarily going to be the favorite, either. you look at the match-up tonight. the chiefs are seeking to repeat, they're at home here. question mark about whether travis kelce's going to be

playing. and it's the lions. big expectations in detroit for the first time in a long time. they have only one playoff game in 65 seasons. >> steve, it's tim. first of all, if the new york jets were a stock, we'd say they are trading at 80 to 90 times multiple. crazy expensive. is the proliferation of online sports betting, has that changed the way these lines move around? if we were stock traders, again, which we are, we'd say the market is as deep as it's ever been in terms of the amount of people being involved in online sports betting. >> actually used the jets as an example, because we just showed you, i go back to that screen, the jets are 16-1 here to win the super bowl. when they opened betting a few months ago, the jets were 40-1. >> wow. >> so, the public reacted to that rodgers move, and really, you can see the hype building there. they've gone from 40-1 all the way to 16-1. >> awesome. >> steve, always a pleasure. thank you so much. >> you got it.

nbc's steve kornacki. >> that's awesome. >> so, we'll trade it as traders. >> yeah. >> we're not trading the teams, we're not trading the odds. >> okay. we're trading -- >> trading tonight's game? >> no. >> oh. >> want to trade tonight's game? >> going to trade sports betting stocks. >> yeah, this -- i mean -- >> no, i don't want to. >> seems like there's only one sports betting stock, draft kings seems like they ran away with it. everything else is so warped. it's the only direct play. but i just put ten grand on minnesota to win everything this year. 35-1. >> yikes. >> who is your pick? >> i think draft kings is the way to play it. my personal picks for the game, but the 49ers. all-in to the hype train. but i think draft kings is the way you do it. penn was there neck and neck for awhile, but there's been some changes in that landscape. >> karen is a football -- >> i am. >> knowledgeable about football. >> is that true about the lions? one playoff -- >> lions, tigers, and bears,

karen. >> one playoff game in 65 seasons? wow. >> what do you think about kelce being out? >> i know. well -- talking about how important is the tight end when mahomes is the quarterback. >> tight end, how important is that for you? >> by the way, you can catch tonight's game between the lions and the chiefs on the big network, nbc. coverage kicks off just over and hour from now, 7:00 p.m. eastern. up nt,in tdeex falras. usinesses everywhere are asking: is it possible? with comcast business... it is. is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? we can help with that. can we provide health care virtually anywhere? we can help with that, too. is it possible to survey foot traffic across all of our locations? yeah! absolutely. with the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from comcast business. it's not just possible. it's happening. ♪

explore endless design possibilities. to find your personal style. endless hardie® siding colors. textures and styles. it's possible. with james hardie™. (sirens) [due at target in 5!] copy that. make a hard left down the alley. network's got you covered. [please confirm requesting back-up.] -changing route. -go. roadblock ahead. ...back up, back up... reverse! reverse! next level moments, we're 30 seconds out. need the next level network. [north corridor, hurry!] -coming through! -or 3, let's go. the network more businesses choose. transplant received. at&t business. i was told my small business wouldn't qualify for an erc tax refund. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. [coughs] good to go. yeah, i think i'll get a second opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion.

no. i'm going to get a second opinion. with innovation refunds, there's no upfront cost to find out. so why not check like i did for my small business? take the first step to see if your small business qualifies for the erc. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall.

"fast money" family ringing the bell at the nasdaq to celebrate 16 years of broadcast. and the launch of our set here in studio b. the reimagined nasdaq market site. casey sullivan joined me, the traders, our production team. folks behind the scenes who make it all happen. that happened this morning at this event here. >> it was fun. >> exciting. >> it was exciting. >> and i'll tell you what, our friends at the nasdaq, too, they built a beautiful set, our friends at cnbc have helped them and it's a home like we've never seen. >> yeah. >> time for the final trades. tim? >> intel. again, if you think about the iphone ban or whatever that means more broadly, i think it shines a very bright light on u.s. players and we know what the story needs to be at intel. i think it's their time. >> karen? >> yeah, i think it's time to sell some upside calls in holy grail, which is eli lilly.

it's run so far so fast. >> bonawyn? >> trend is strong, xle. >> grasso? >> ethereum trust. in january it was four and change, in june, seven and change, it was 9 1/2 in august. this is going straight up now. . this thing is going straight up now. >> "mad money" starts right now. my mission is simple. to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now. hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money." welcome to cramerica. other people make friends. i'm just trying to make you a little money. it's my job not just to entertain but to educate, teach. call me at 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet me @jimcramer. a mega-cap company doesn't get to stay a megacap company unless it's indispensable