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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  September 15, 2023 5:00pm-5:30pm EDT

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cuts will be gentle. it will dependent on inflation but also on whether we have a recession. >> all right. nathan sheets, thank you. we'll all be watching that. next week, tuesday, i will be in san jose, california, for intel innovation speaking with ceo pat gelsinger. that's tuesday, 4:00 p.m. that's going to do it for "overtime." "fast money" starts now. >> live from the nasdaq market site in the heart of new york city's time square, this is fast money. here's what's on tap tonight, stocks selling you have to end the week. the s&p and nasdaq both giving up their gains since monday. how should investors ingest this action as they turn their attention to next week's fed meeting. layoffs from the uaw strike and what it could be mean from the industry. netflix's new move.
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they just finished its worst week of 2023. is this a blimp or are stranger things ahead? i'm melissa lee coming toyou live from studio b. we start off with the nasdaq-led sell-off on wall street. closing down 217 points, more than 1.5%. the composite now on a two-week losing streak. the s&p 500 and dow getting hit today. tech stocks leading the losses, advanced microdevices, applied materials, adobe and nvidia. the sector the biggest loser in september. down more than 4% so far. how do you interpret today's action as we turn our attention to the fed here. of course, rates were a big part of this sell-off. >> the irony is that the fed is on hold yesterday. and yet rates, we finished within a whisper on the cycle high. look at japan, jjb yields.
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i know most people don't. but i think japanese bond yields could slingshot higher. the boj has been somewhat erratic. back to equities. if you look at the underperformance to see, it was the places you don't want to see it if you want the market as a whole to go higher. semiconductors were down 3%. they're on a relative low to the s&p going back three months and that's where the leadership has been. so clearly big cap tech underperformed today and i think a lot of this really does come from fear of interest rates. >> so i think the week was summarized with china, right? so china, apple, that took the lead, everyone got spooked out of tech. i don't think it had anything to do with rates. the fed is going to be on hold. i think the market got spooked from china. i think arm had a lot to do with the semiconductor performance. because i believe it still is a zero-sum game if you manage money. you would have to sell a lot of your semiconductors if you want
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to buy arm. you would have to sell some of your tech if you want to buy arm. so let's see how we line up next week. maybe next week, different. >> you any the negativity this week is apple, china? >> i think china -- >> 4.336% on the ten-year yield? >> i don't think so. we've had a lot of time to digest higher yields. >> i think that's right. >> and i think to the point where if you see the trend in yields, probably closer to the end than the beginning of it. so i don't think that's the reason why. i think that if you really look at the charts, it was apple, tech and that sort of contagion through the whole tech environment. >> i get what you're saying. but i feel like it's almost like a one-two punch. you have doubts around the tech story. like the tsmc indicating that there may be weaker chip demand. these two things combined are sending shivers through the tech sector. >> sure, but also to your point,
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rates haven't really moved much higher than where they were two weeks ago, three weeks ago. we're 4 1/4, 4 1/4. but the distribution in tech is more than a month all. the leading stock down more than 14% from its peak and apple continues to struggle. we're coming up on the one-year anniversary of apple's relative performance peak to its sector. the number one stock has been an alpha negative proposition for a year. >> i guess -- and this is an interesting debate. ultimately i think yields -- i don't know if they're going to go a lot higher, but i feel like we're bumping up against a key level and i see dynamics on inflation that aren't getting better. i think ultimately i think there's a limit to how high things can go. but i think there are technical factors at work here. i see a dollar that continues to break higher. i think that's been negative for equities this week. look, apple had a big week. if you think about the apple story and we're covering both apple in terms of the china headwinds, but the new release
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and huawei, i couldn't agree more that i get most concerned about semiconductors underperforms and they have yet to make a relative new high since that may 25th have i had sk -- nvidia. but they traded right now down to the day. that weakness -- >> that is china, though, too. if you think about how that apple story morphed into the semis, that was the story. what was -- was there going to be less of a demand? iphones? semiconductors, china, privacy, everything was in that same bucket. >> at the end of the day, look, the "q"s led on the way down and they led on the way back up. the s&p peak trough decline was 27%, but the "q"s have yet to recoup their relative performance.
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>> there seems like there are real doubts for the sector. particularly when you look at the biggest cap tech stocks, they were seen as defensive. but in this light, it looks like there's questions in terms of demand. there is a story that the iphone 15, that the wait time was out until november. on any other sort of day, that might have been a good thing for apple, would have held it up. but today it did not. >> you know, i know he's had a position on apple. i look at that apple chart and -- i mean, to me is not a chart i want to own. >> no. unbelievable uptrend, persistent, reliable, almost complacent and the first drop in gap, second drop in gap. it has all the elements of a rollover. >> i'm still long. i bought it twice. i bought it on a declining basis. i go back to the may level of 170. i bought it, i thought i'm going to hold it until it breaks to
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107 o 170s. to your point, when apple cracks, think of how many etfs apple is in. the triple "q"s. 11% of the triple "q"s are apple. if you think how much passive invest is to quarter's point. if apple sells off "x" percent how many times does that have to get sold off. it's creating more friction on the sell side as it goes down. >> or maybe the flip side can be true. think of how many funds own apple and yet the chart still looks lousy. >> there was the issue that the biggest funds have all been underweight by mandate. they can only own 5% in their portfolio. apple starts to get to be 7% of the s&p, they've been underweight. this is thegreatest relief of
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all time just to have this thing come off. >> let's get to a developing story here in detroit. auto workers at three u.s. auto plants slamming on the breaks at production. they're heading to the picket line. the strike impacting general motors, ford and chrysler. phil lebeau is live in the heart of the city with the latest. >> all day long, we've been talking about the fact that since production is shut down at these plants, one in michigan, ohio, and missouri, there may ultimately be ripple-on effects, layoffs because production has stopped and that's what we've heard about within the last hour. let's start with ford. take a look at shares of ford. the company announcing it plans to layoff approximately 600 workers at the michigan assembly plapt. that is the plant where the uaw is on strike right now. the reason, because the strike is stopping those workers who are at the plant in a different capacity from doing their jobs. in other words, they don't have
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the goods coming to them that we're being supplied usually by uaw members. as a result, you can't do the work, they have to initiate a layoff there. general motors, just out with a note saying that it may have to halt production at its fairfax, kansas, plant, . this is the plant where they build the chevy malibu. stampings for those vehicles, many of them, come from the gm plant in missouri that is on strike. obviously if they're on strike, they're not doing the stampings that would go over to fairfax. gm putting out a statement saying since fair -- there is no work available, we are working under an expired agreement. there are no provisions that allow for company-provided sub pay in this circumstance. that's a wordy way of saying that those employees will be
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laid off. as you look at shares of stellantis, we have not heard about this happening with any stellantis facilities, but stellantis is set up just as general motors and ford are. i wouldn't be surprised, melissa, if we hear some type of similar announcement from stellantis in the days ahead. melissa? >> phil, the word layoff, does that mean that these workers are fired? it's not a furlough. they're not being held. they're not being paid, obviously. do they file for unemployment at this point? >> they're not fired. they file for unemployment and it means that the automakers are not on the hook to pay them. and that means they go through the state, whichever state, the facility is located in, then you get into the labor and employment laws within that state. so they're laid off, essentially. furloughed might be the official term in some facilities. they're not fired. when the strike ends, these workers, nine times out of ten, they get hired back, unless
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somebody has decided, i don't want to go back to work, i've decided to move on. but the auto workers, they plan to bring these people back to work when production can resume. >> no talks are scheduled right now? >> not today. they plan to resume bargaining tomorrow as we speak, melissa. the president of the uaw is leading a rally of uaw members and those who are also supporters of the uaw here in downtown detroit, senator bernie sanders is at this rally as well, they're going to margin a couple of blocks in the area and come back here. >> phil, thank you. and while the big three automakers all posted gains this week, tesla outperformed them all rallying more than 10% since monday. so what do we think here? it doesn't sound like anything is going to come to fruition in terms of agreement any time soon, at least. >> no, and i think the surgical strategic nature of the strike
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which is different, all three, it's never happened before, but different pieces, partially to conserve resources in terms of the strike fund so it can go longer. it's how you would be posturing now. we're ready to do what we have to do. we'll go as long as we can. we think we would be as disruptive or more. it's interesting that both sides -- and the union alleges and their argument is, these are record profits at the big three. and we want a share in the record rewards. these stocks have not been trading like they're record profits. >> no. >> and so some of it has been this overhang. but a lot of this has been about -- think of the investment they have to make in ev., the cost structure, think about how screwed up ford has been in terms of their cost structure and how they've been working and they've been doing a great job to get it back. that's the dynamic with some great irony. and the stocks played pretty well today because i think that the first salvo here didn't look as devastating on the surface.
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>> you speak of record profits. think about banks, record profits. it's not about the profits. long term, yes, it's about how they act. and the u.s. auto manufacturers have been such laggards compared toyota and nissan. it's not a great place to be on the long side. >> ford is up 8%. we're all talking about the same thing. gm, it's a push, and tesla is up 122%. you just don't have the overhang, you don't have that hanging over the stock in tesla like you do in the big three. that's why people migrate. >> how does that chart look? >> different altogether. the question is, is this strength, both absolute and relative getting a bit stretched? i think so. coming up, streaming struggles. shares of netflix taking it up this week. but investors have even more beef with this stock. they have thoughts on where it's heading to the penny.
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welcome back to fast money. netflix notching its worst week of the year dropping 10% since monday after a stellar start to the year. the stock is down more than 20%. what's the next moving for the streaming giant? what do you think? >> a little bit of a setback. before we get to the chart, i think it's important to say this is a beta trade. if you think about last year, the "q"s dropped 35%, it drops 52. netflix is underperforming. let's look at a long-term chart. this is an all data chart. it's precise lines. we bounced off that lower band. but i think we're going to revisit the lower band. let's go in a little tighter here. that's a 20-year chart. what you'll find is, we've just come to and now broken to the downside out of that formation. conv converging tread lines, but it's a break the wrong way. let's just take the bottom line, the same chart and remove the
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top. the key is, how much of a break is this? let's go shorter term, final chart and what we have here, of course, is talk about to the penny, it has bounced off that trend line six times. and this time, we're now breaching. does it have to keep going lower? no. is that my bet, yes. >> and the fundamental picture is clouded now. the commentary from the company throwing questions about operating margin and mixed shift in terms of the growth being from international. >> yeah, and i think that there were a couple of things that were the tail wind and obviously on carter's chart, you saw how everything got so overly pessimistic, but the writer strike was a tail wind, the ad service, that was a tail wind. and then you have the password sharing, that was a tail wind. all of those three seem like they're a little bit long in the tooth. i agree -- i concur with your analysis on the technical side.
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>> the paid monetization dynamics in 3q were 7%. that was weaker than people expected. you have seen this slow down. netflix tends to be a higher beta to the group. to be clear, the excitement for netflix was not just -- they were going up on fundamental reasons and i know you're not suggesting that they weren't. i think you're saying that when the nasdaq is moving higher, you think it's a good place to be anyway. but they really -- that story i do think has had a lot of legs behind it. as someone that was long netflix, i'm out of the stock now, i think i'm going to get it cheaper. what's playing out for disney and what's playing out across linear tv is an argument why you want to own netflix. and this is a company that's making money as opposed to the other guys that are figuring out what assets to sell to make their next move. i like it. i don't like it here. >> the theme that seems to be emerging is that netflix has the great advantage of all these streaming companies. >> without question.
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first of all, their content is amazing. and they have piles of content where others don't have that content. where others are spending a lot of money. not that netflix hasn't spent a lot of money on it. still, when you stream anything, their interface is the best in the business. it's everything else, it's them, it's amazon prime, everything else i find clunky. it's still theirs in the streaming world to tim's point. i just agree that i think that the chart looks like it's breaking down. if you want to own netflix for a longer term, which i agree with, you're going to wait and get a much better price. coming up, going nuclear. uranium prices are in rally mode and shares are trading at more than 12-year highs. what is driving the move? it's been 15 years since one of the most impactful bankruptcies on wall street. e llseings have changed since thcoap of lehman brothers. more fast money right after this. women's tennis association
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welcome back to "fast money." uranium on fire this week. check out shares of cameco. the stock trading at levels not seen since march of 2012. tim is a shareholder -- by the way, cameco? >> i go cameco. >> just checking. just in my head, i always say cameco. >> you said 2011. that's the uranium price too. 65.50 a pound. it's a combination of clean energy and energy security, you know, kind of coming as one. lack of investment.
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and then on the bottom-up, you have a military dynamic where you have 5% of the world supply and you have the bottom-up dynamic where they really are executing. and so this is something that to me the correlation to the uranium prices is probably higher than it should be because i think there should be less volatility in the stock price. you can make an argument that any particular company could have their own operational issues. you stay long in the trade, i think we're getting to shortage time. >> i feel like the higher price in crude this week didn't hurt that trade. >> commodities in general, cattle, orange juice, sugar. on and on. today marks the 15-year of lehman brothers filing bankruptcy. in the months after the filing, the s&p dropped more than 45%. how much -- so much as changed. that was a seminole moment. >> yeah, i remember being on the floor back in -- during that
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time period and you had rolling closes where you're trying to solicit buy side on these events and you didn't know who was going out of business, who was going to be saved. i had friends that worked at lehman. it was a dire time. and we recovered and we looked back on it where the financial institutions are stronger than they've ever been. and hopefully, we don't go through another period like that again. >> we were on air. i remember it well. and wall street is not the same. there's no question that the dealer community, if you think about also the lack of the size of the book, the risk that's being taken, the size of the balance sheets, maybe it's good, some of it is bad. i think there's a lot less liquidity on wall street. sad day. tremendously talented people. wall street has contracted dramatically from that point. some of those changes were already happening. some of those changes were clearly accelerated by lehman. >> where were you carter? >> i was right here or at my
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desk. but i think the two things that are important, the vix -- the market makes its low in march of '09. but the events associated with september and october were the peak in the vix. so that was the biggest fear moment. you had one of the biggest weekly drops. and then interesting, from that point to present, the investment banks as a group are underperforming the s&p. so adjusted for beta, it's just -- >> 15 years later. >> the s&p 500 investment bank and brokerage group underperforming the market, calls into question, are those good business models at least -- maybe to work there. but to be owning the shares long term, probably not. >> what do you remember about that moment? what's your -- >> i remember being on the air over the weekend. i mean, that was nuts. >> you were fresh out of college? >> exactly. time for the final trade. let's go around the horn. tim? >> if i think you look at the range on airlines charts, carter, stick around, he's going to talk about that. i think the fundamentals in the space are strong.
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they're great trading stocks. this is a time to buy them. >> oil is feeling stressed. you start reducing your longs. >> steve? >> arm holdings, i've been trading it for the last two days. i went home long. arm holdings. >> that does it for us on "fast money." don't go anywhere, options action is up next. ♪ my name is josh sanabria and i am the owner at isla veterinary boutique hospital. i was 5...6 years of age and i knew i was going to be a vet. once alexandra called me to let me know that bank of america had approved my loan... it was important to me. we not only just provide the financing piece, we do everything that we can to surround them with the right people. all you need is a perfect, amazing team that will guide you through the right steps to be successful. and that's what bank of america was for me. every day, businesses everywhere are asking:
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♪ right now on oa, crude's big dl climb over the last three months. oil at its highest level of the year. is now the time to trade or fade? the take straight ahead. as workers hit the picket lines, we will look at the action beyond the big three. how will stocks react to detroit's labor struggles? can fedex de

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