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there we go. welcome back. i'm kelly evans, and ahead this hour on "the exchange," on a day where oil is higher, bond yields are higher, the dollar is at a 10-month high, stocks are now lower, we're approaching a lot of critical levels on wall street. despite these gathering storm

clouds, our market guest is finding opportunity, and she makes her tv debut here with the names that are underappreciated and cheap right now. that's in a moment. stocks and bonds may be under pressure, but not enough to force washington's hand to avoid a shutdown. we are nowhere near that pain point yet, so what's next? we talked to two washington veterans who have a solution. and something is happening in washington today that could be a game changer for cannabis industry. but can it light a fire under the beleaguered stocks and what are the broader banking implications? let's start with the markets. a lot of critical levels to watch. dom chu has the numbers. >> the dow down 170 points, one half of 1% declines. the s&p at 4259, down 13 points. the trading range so far has gone up 19 to down 20. so there's a good amount of symmetry in the trading range. the nasdaq composite up one quarter of 1%.

as for where we stand, if you look at the dow, the s&p and the nasdaq composite, on a year-yea year-to-date basis, right now, you can see the dow industrials from the levels down about 6% in that range. down about 8% for the s&p, and down roughly 10% for the nasdaq composite from those summer highs. so keep an eye on those. and small caps and transportation stocks as well. check out transports from those summer highs that we saw going down, you can see the transportation down 12% since the highs. we're seeing some more trend lines develop here with the medium term. and watch the energy stocks. unexpectedly larger draw down, helping to push prices higher. u.s. benchmark crude prices up 4%, $93.77. that's lifting the entire energy sector, including exporters and production names like occidental

preto petr petroleum. so back over to you. >> leading the way, and dom, thank you very much. bond yields as well, the story today. we had a five-year option top of the hour. let's bring in rick with the latest. >> reporter: it's always difficult, kelly, to handicap an auction when on the fly, the market is selling off to new extremes, pushing yields higher. the one issue market was staircasing to yield heaven, right as the auction buttoned up. so the yield for this $49 billion five-year was 4.659. but the one issued market was at 4.671. that's good. lower yield, higher price, i'm selling if i'm the government. they call that stopping through, that's a positive. but when the market is selling off, we're leaving in our wake some of those bids at lower levels. soy gave it b as in boy, which

is still a good grade. the only thing that was light here was the direct bidders. but as the yields continue to move higher, and in many ways they don't to be mostly led by long maturities, we are getting close to some levels, especially in the long end that will represent some resistance. >> so far, it's just been a one-way move lately. rick, thank you very much. also this morning, hawkish comments from fed officials, this time from the minneapolis fed president, who said interest rates aren't high enough to contain inflation, even as bank of america's ceo says he thinks the fed has won the near-term battle on that front. inflation the top concern in the latest survey from cnbc. the next biggest worry after inflation is declining consumer sentiment. my next guest says a lot of bad news is also priced in to a lot of stocks and is finding great

opportunities. here is samantha mclemore. welcome. great to see you. you worked with bill miller for 20 plus years. you have acquired the miller opportunity equity business this past may. >> correct, yes. >> and tv debut. >> tv debut. >> what a day with our technological gremlins and the gremlins plaguing the market. so this doesn't surprise you, the fact that we are a little bit of tough slugging out there, but you think it's priced in to some stocks already. >> absolutely. the main thing to know is how resilient the market has been in light of rates and oil and all of these headwinds that would have taken the market down much more last year, we're only down 8%, that's a normal, natural correction. >> after a runup that surprised so many people, i was thinking about you earlier this year, one of the stocks you had your eye on was delta airlines. at one point, it was on a 16-day win streak, and then comes

higher jet fuel prices. but you think there's a lot of room to run there. >> delta is extremely attractive. this is a premium brand. airlines are not like they were 20 years ago. there's been a lot of consolidation. there's capacity constraints with pilots and with equipment. and delta has a 15% free cash flow yield and earns mid teens return on capital. so this is not a company that should trade at five times earnings. >> you think it should be in the 70s to be fair value? says think it can get over to 100 five years out. >> that will be an interesting five years between gdp, the deficit and yields. let me ask you big picture for a second. a lot of the stock picking in the last 15, 20 years has been in a low rate environment. we are not in that anymore and it's changing day by day. i don't know if that changes the way you work. >> we're always long-term and focused on where the best

opportunities on an intrinsic value basis. i think we've had the worst period for value investing ever. worse than the tech bubble. i think those negative real rates were an torment factor where that existed. and now the higher rates favor bigger companies generating cash flow, so i think it will help value continue to outperform. >> if you stuck with the business the last 15 years, this is maybe a welcome change. there's a couple of names on the financial side people might be surp surprised. right now, we're talking about the deterioration of the consumer, that's kind of their bread and butter. why does this stock jump out to you? >> you hear how attractive yields are. people can get 5% in cash. i know you like treasuries. one name you can get at over 10% dividend yield that we are confident with, and once we get

through the fear, through a recession, and people are more confident in the recovery, we think that stock can double. so we're seeing attractive opportunities like that. >> 10% yield, and you're not afraid that's a fool's yield, where they won't be able to sustain it, and they're heavily exposed? >> that's often a risk you take when investing at yields that high. but even in a financial crisis type situation, we feel they can earn $4 a share. so they can cover that dividend yield in any environment. >> again, we have seen controversy over the years. citi group is another stock. speaking of things that haven't worked well in 15, 20 years. why do you think this is a change for this company and stock price? >> i think citi is underappreciated, and very undervalued. this is a company that has been mismanaged. so people are rightfully skeptical. again, you can get 5.3% dividend

yield, and jane frazier is making all the right moves to fix the business. she's taking out bureaucracy and layers of the organizational structure. so the stock trades at 40, and has a tangible book value in the 80s, which we think will grow to 100. it should get the return of tangible capital up to 12%, which is not heroic. >> it's tough to bet on stocks where history has not favored by them. jane frazier will be on cnbc friday morning. we look to more comments there. before we go, quickly on expedia, is this just a travel play? there's been a lot more plaguing the stock as well competitively speaking. >> yeah, no. it's not a travel play. travel is booming and people are prioritizing it after the pandemic. but this is a company that made major improvements to the business through the pandemic and graded their tech stock.

we think you're going to see big margin improvement. they bought back 8% of the shares over the past year, so they're returning a lot of capital, a 15% free cash flow yield. we think very underappreciated. >> i have to let you go on that note. anything you and bill ve hemently disagree on? >> no, we were talking stocks earlier this week and getting each other excited with all the opportunities in this market. >> samantha, thank you so much making your debut here. on a day like this, no less. >> thank you, kelly. all right, everybody. don't look now, but three u.s. based cannabis companies are actually higher on the year. curaleaf is up, green thumb up 28% and verano up over 50%. the senate banking committee just wrapping up a vote on key legislation for the industry.

jane wells joins us now with that story. jane? >> reporter: hey, kelly. yeah, they approved this bill and this action by the banking committee is a huge step forward for an industry that is legal in one form or another in more than half the country. >> this bill is about public safety first and foremost. >> reporter: the act allows the estimated $33 billion state cannabis industry to have bank accounts at banks that are federally chart herbed. this remains a mostly cash business, which creates all kinds of safety challenges. curaleaf sells over a billion in cannabis every year, and the owner hopes this law will allow the use of credit cards. >> usually when credit cards are allowed, it's a 25% boost to revenue.

>> reporter: senator schumer will bring it to the floor for a full vote, but passage could be bigger than banking, leading to more investment. >> right now, it's essentially impossible for institutions to own stock in the largest u.s. operators in cannabis. and passing legislation like this should lead to that possibility. >> reporter: now, the stocks have lit up in the last month after the biden administration asked the dea to reclassify marijuana as something less dangerous. if that happens, and the banking bill happens, maybe the irs will finally let these marijuana businesses have normal business deductions like payroll. they can't right now. that tax change for curaleaf alone would mean $170 million more cash flow. and for green thumb, $50 million. >> the industry seems to be almost evolving past cannabis, as we have had a couple of deals diversifying into craft beer and

you name it. is that because they gave up hope about this legislation or the larger economics are more challenging than expected? >> reporter: i think you want to diversify your revenue streams, especially when you are dealing with cash with a large portion of your business. kelly, we're talking it's been 11 years since washington and colorado legalized recreational cannabis. 27 years since california legalized medical cannabis. and they're still not able to go to bank of america and have a savings account and get a loan. >> interesting. jane, thank you so much for bringing us up to date with the latest. passage of the safe banking act, if it passes, will be key to my next guest. his business connects cannabis with financial institutions. the language of the bill, though, he says is far from perfect. let's bring back kevin hart. good to have you back. welcome. >> wonderful to be here, and on a very exciting day, kelly. thank you.

>> why is this time different? why is the whole industry have its hopes up? >> well, you know, again, this is the first time it's come out of this after seven, eight, nine times in the house. this has to go back to the house now. this is far from a done deal. but as you heard from the other gentleman, that happen to be clients of ours that are banking through us today, you know, the opportunity for cash flow, more products and services associated from main stream financial institutions. it's a watershed moment. there's still work to be done, but this is a big event. i'm going to the largest event for the cannabis industry, and the buzz here in and around that is very real, very exciting. >> so i'm curious, because you benefit in a way byoffering the niche services that you do. i mean, would this legislation,

which makes it easier to have traditional banking relationships, undermine your business? >> no, no at all. it's a catalyst for more financial institutions to get in. they have the challenge of knowing what is god anod and ba money. it doesn't mean that they can identify who the write cannabis businesses are, the sources of those products, and where the money comes from. so there will be more rules and regulations associated with this. this was put forth in conversations we had last week with representative jim cole. we can bet there will be more rules and regulations. as you talk about the scheduling and the activities associated with that, you will see international commerce come into play, which was referenced here, and the diversification. and so that challenge of making sure that the flow of money tied

to the flow of cannabis is going to be critical. >> but has the ship sailed? i mentioned earlier, we've seen a number of companies rename themselves, diversify their business lines. is there just a sense that cannabis is not panning out in terms of its business potential the way they might have thought three, five, seven years ago? >> not at all. you look at the growth rate that these businesses have had, and you look at the industry and the projected growth rates. they're still double digits. it's bigger than alcohol in a lot of states. you know, i don't think that's going to be a challenge at all. the diversification is around the opportunity because of their mainline businesses. you know, beverages, how cannabis is consumed now, it has changed and it is about so much of what those early day, even in terms of what products are available. so diversification is critical

of any business, and the opportunities just continue to grow. >> kevin, thanks for joining us on an important day for the industry. we appreciate your time. >> thank you very much. >> kevin hart. now to tyler mathisen for a cnbc news update. >> kelly, thank you very much. the senate banking committee voted to advance the cannabis banking bill. it passed with a vote of 14-9, the first time legislation related to marijuana was advanced and passed a senate panel. three republicans voted for the bill, and senator warnock was the only democrat to vote against it. charles schumer will bring the legislation to the full senate for consideration. the czech republic approved a plan to buy two f-35 fighter jets from the u.s. the $6.5 billion deal will bring the aircrafts, pilot training and upgrading of the air force base, as well. the move sends a message to

allies that they can rely on the country. the first of the jets is expected to be delivered in 2031. apple's former design chief working with open ai on building an ai hardware device. the information reports the ceo is discussing what a device for the ai age would look like. no word on what the device will be or what purpose it will serve. two key questions to answer, i guess. altman previously partnered to design a retina scanning orb for a crypto project. >> retina scanning orb. what could he be up to? fun to ponder. tyler, thanks. tyler mathisen. coming up, bond yields are higher once again today, as the u.s. government hurdles towards a shutdown with. the proposed bills in the house

and senate failing to meaningfully address spending, could yields move to 7% as jamie dimon suggested yesterday? we'll discuss that, next. as cnbc celebrates hispanic heritage, we're sharing stories. here is the chief strategy officer at abi point. >> it's really important to know that advantages are not always going to be given to you. you need to create your own, find ways to stand out. i often still feel like a minority in the conversation, but it's important that you also rely on surrounding yourself with people that help you reflect on what you're doing is critical. and an executive leadership for hispanic americans, it is important to have that opportunity to reflect. ♪ ♪

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welcome back to "the exchange." dow is down 271 points.

this on the back of bond yields that just won't quit. they keep moving higher. the ten-year yield has pushed above 4.60. there it is. 4.63%. the 30-year, approaching almost 4.75. and both sides of the isle are digging in with a looming government shutdown. emily has the latest. >> reporter: it's less than four days before the u.s. government could face a shutdown. and we are seeing some major divisions between house and senate republicans. now, of course, the senate came out with their bipartisan yesterday. they started moving forward on that. that would fund the government until november 17th, and it would also include $4.5 billion for ukraine. but it's an absolute non-starter in the house, because it doesn't include anything on border security. the house speaker kevin mccarthy told republicans this morning that he would not be bringing the senate bill to the floor in its current form.

and this is something that house republicans are really trying to push right now. if you look at what's going on with the border, you are seeing a surge of migrants crossing at the southern border. you are seeing democrats in new york raise a lot of concerns about the migrant crisis in new york city. so republicans really see this as an opportune moment to push biden on the border. and kevin mccarthy talked a little bit this morning with reporters about that strategy, calling on joe biden to about. >> the president can take action, the president could do something to help us keep government open, at the same time secure or boarders. i think that's what he is hearing from a lot of democrats from across the nation. >> reporter: but what he doesn't have the supportof is his republican counterpart in the senate, mitch mcconnell. mitch mcconnell took to the senate floor this morning to basically rebuke the house's plan, saying if they really wanted to help border agents, they needed to make sure that the government remains open.

>> the vote against a standard short-term funding measure is a vote against paying over $1 billion in salary for border patrol and i.c.e. agents, working to track down fentanyl and patrol our open boarders. >> reporter: we are starting to hear some discussions in the senate about making some tweaks to their bill that would still remain bipartisan but include something on border security that democrats could get behind. but we have a very long way to go, a very short time and folks in d.c. right now are bracing for a government shutdown to begin sunday at midnight. >> emily, thank you very much. as that government shutdown looms, what are the main sticking points for both parties and what might the path forward look like? let's ask andy blocker. andy, i'm struck by the fact that her report included a lot about border security, but not much about, you know, spending

changes or the deficit or anything like that. >> yes. normally this is about spending only, and there is a spending difference with the two sides, one is at $1.9 trillion, the other side $1.47 trillion. there are issues like things on the board e but it's personal to preside kevin mccarthy and it's going to be hard to get a deal. >> you heard people refer to this as the seinfeld showdown. in some ways it's about a showdown about everything. all the different issues are in the mix here, and that makes it hard to focus the mind as we go. >> exactly. a lot of these are legitimate issues. we should be discussing size of the government, funding ukraine, funding on the border. but at the end of the day, this

is an internal, political thing amongst the house republicans. they need to bring this to a head. i don't know how long this shutdown is. it seems like at least a day or two at the minimum. but however long it is, they're going to have to confront this assault on speaker mccarthy's leadership, or we will be here again. >> it's notable, you know, that even the house freedom caucus titled its report something like, you know, security, then funding. this suspect about reining in spending the way it was ten years ago. so when we look at the contours for a path forward, are we even talking about spending levels, what should we be watching for progress as this starts to get you believedway? >> i think the most likely scenario on this is one of two things. one, there is enough pain from an actual government shutdown. a lot of the essential functions will continue.

but last shutdown, what really motivated people is when air traffic controllers started calling in sick, affecting travel. that's one angle. the other agele is for the house republican congress to say enough is enough, let's vote on this cr so we can have a rational conversation. and if the rabble-rousers in our group want to do a motion to vacate this chair, go ahead. until that happens, i'm not sure we get there. >> based on what the senate has put out there, which had 77 votes or something like that to it, what would that accomplish? if literally just that version of that passed? >> it would give them time. it would give the senate version is 45 days. it gives them time to pass more of the individual bills for spending. get them through, so you're not talking about a whole of government shutdown that you are looking at today. and then remember now, in january, no matter where we're

at, if we don't have a deal, we get a full-year's cr with a 1% cut, which is a lot less than what some are proposing in the house right now. >> what are the odds that is the deal, the senate version that moves forward here in some way, shape, or form? >> at some point, they're going to have to do a cr, just a matter of when. i don't know how long this shutdown is going to be, but as i'm talking to people in congress, i heard more things about them say thing might be longer than any one we've ever had. >> the last one doesn't count. but how long was 2013 again? >> i think around 16 days. >> all right. settle in. andy, thank you so much. we'll check back in soon. markets are increasingly anxious about the fiscal situation in washington. bond yields are expected to grind higher, noting the most

important long-term dynamic is widening deficits. my next two guests writing in a joint op-ed in "the washington post" today that we need a new bipartisan commission to fix the situation. joining me now, the authors behind the piece, former north dakota senator kent conrad and your colleague will join us shortly. senator, thanks for your time. welcome. >> good to be with you. >> i find this very, very curious. i look at the markets today, just keeps spiraling higher, and people are concerned about what is happening with deficits that are going to be 5% to 7% over the next decade. and yet everything we just heard in these reports out of washington about the fight, it's about the border. it's almost not about spending at all. i'm just very struck by that. >> yeah. you know, there's a bit of a fantasy world aspect to all of this, isn't there? such a detachment from reality.

what is amazing is the republicans are stuck on just a small part of federal spending. and it's not the part that's causing us the problems. the long-term deficit and debt are from our entitlement programs, medicare and social security. we're not talking about that at all. there's a $6 trillion budget, they're only focusing on $1 trillion of the $6 trillion. they're not dealing with the big problem that we confront, which is the fact that major entitlements, medicare and social security, are heading to insolvency by 2034. >> right. i thought i was speaking to -- i'm surprised to hear you shining such a light on this issue. >> well, you shouldn't be surprised. i was deeply involved in these issues in the last effort to take this on. i chaired a commission on

retirement security and securing social security for the bipartisan policy center. we spent two years, 19 members totally bipartisan. we ended with a unanimous agreement on how to fix social security, how to get the country back on track. >> did any of that happen, though? whatever came of simpson bowls? >> so parts of it were adopted, but much of it was not, because, again, if you're an elected leader, going back to your home district and saying you've got to reduce spending and raise revenue is not a popular message. >> right. the truthful message, but it's not popular. >> senator portman, i appreciate you joining us here, as well. maybe you can speak candidly, we need changes to social security, medicare, probably medicaid. defense, nondefense discretion.

it's going to be very, very difficult. and it's hard to see raising revenues enough to close the gap. i can understand why bond yields are moving higher and markets are nervous. >> by the way, he was never nervous talking about this stuff when he was in office. look, it's unsustainable, the current trajectory is unsustainable. no one can argue that. what we need is to have a new process to get it out of the political process to a certain extent, to get it into the hands of some experts and people who are willing to do what it makes to find common ground to move this forward. that's why we like the idea of a commission. a bipartisan commission that's been successful in the past. even simpson bowles was noted. many of the proposals were picked up and some of the things we moved to make progress at that time when it seemed like an

insurmountable debt and deficit. it's worse now. >> it is worse now. as we have been talking about this, this week, one observer said this is not enough of a crisis to force washington's hand. the s&p is up 10%, and the ten-year is not even at 5% yet. so what happen it is the ten-year yield is 7%? what happens in the stock market declines? it's scary to contemplate. >> yeah. even at 5%, it's a problem if you have those kind of yields, you're talking about an 8% mortgage. people are -- will find that to be very difficult to be able to buy a new house or to find a buyer for their house. so i think we're already there. it's something that the american people are nervous about. they see it in the interest rates and in inflation, both of which relate to this fiscal crisis we are in. i think when you look at the traj

trajectory, over the next five, ten years, it is truly going into unchartered territory, where the debt becomes more than 100% of our gdp. >> and not just that, senator conrad, we think about the impact on mortgage rates, 8%. but look at a 5% treasury or higher, that means the budget deficit will push upwards of 8%, 10%. half of the deficit being projected is just the cost of interest. without that, we would be around 3%, which is still high by historical standards. but i don't think people understand how much of what is happening on wall street today is going to exacerbate this problem for literally years to come. >> it's undeniable. the longer we wait, the more draconian the solutions have to be. that's a mathematical certainly. i used to say to my colleagues, waiting is not a good option. and certainly not a good option in 2023, when, again, the trustees of medicare and social security tell us they will be insolvent by 2034.

that means everyone who receives social security is going to take a 24% cut that's what the law provides. so it is so important that we wake up, smell the roses, and deal with this issue. >> and senator portman, i don't think that's going to be politically feasible. if the only choice is to raise revenue, how do we do that? even through the expiration of the trump tax cuts, the deaf nate would still be $5.5%. >> you need to do three things. one, you need to grow the economy. to the extent you have this huge fiscal overhang, it's difficult to have the economy meet its potential. second, you look at the revenue side. that's tough for us on the republican side, but we have to figure out how to grow the economy and get revenues up. and finally, we have to take a serious look at all spending. you mentioned the fact with regard to domestic discretionary spending, we have challenges. but that's relatively flat based on the current projections.

the real issue is with regard to mandatory spending. it's 2/3 of the budget. it used to just be a 1/3. and that's where we have to focus. as difficult as it is politically, we have no choice. these programs are not sustainable in their current form. can't just talk about the fact that social security faces such a shortfall, that there will be a 4% cut in benefits in 2034 or sooner. so i think there's an urgency to move. >> i nominate conrad portman for the new commission. you both know this better than anybody. i can't any of nip better to tackle these challenges. thank you for joining me today. >> thanks for having us. still to come, the ftc chair lina khan saying that amazon is responsible for driving up prices across the internet. amazon shares are down more than

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welcome back. the hammer drops for amazon. the ftc alleging they're abusing their monopoly power. amazon is also facing renewed competition. shopify announcing it's investing in a wholesale platform to expand its ecosystem for consumers.experimented with. >> what did you think sp >> it was pretty good. it was high touch. >> it's like e-commerce on steroids. things are popping up every second, there's deals. it's a lot. but any ways, back to amazon. really, this shopify deal says

something interesting about regulators and big tech. yesterday, the ftc took aim at amazon for an illegal monopoly. here is how lina khan put it this morning. >> what amazon tactics have been about, once it achieved that scale, it's been focused on tactics that deprive rivals of the ability to gain that critical mass of customers. >> now, the e-commerce landscape today is very different than it was in 2017 when she wrote that paper at yale law school, talking about anti-trust and amazon. and the main criticism of regulators has been that they're fighting yesterday's battles. shopify announced its detail with fair, and here's what fair's ceo told me about that so-called amazon threat. >> our retailers don't really have much need for amazon, and most of our brands aren't on amazon.

>> do you see amazon as competition then? >> i really don't. i see it as complementary in the lives of consumers. for us, the much more interesting partner are the folks that serve s&bs, like shopify. >> so while the ftc is targeting e-commerce in the latest lawsuit, amazon is moving into other businesses away from that core that is strengthening the prime's fly wheel. here is a snapshot. none of them are in e-commerce, they are in streaming, hx, logistics and jegenerative ai. so you could argue that lina khan is looking in the wrong places if it wants to make the playing field more level. >> indeed. that would be the line of discussion. diedra, thank you very much. still to come, earnings, near-term options in micron

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welcome back "the exchange." shares down more than 2% as mark zuckerberg is detailing features of the new headset, the metaquest 3, it's $500, going on sale in october. should it be a surprise? they preannounced this ahead of apple's headset, but now we're getting the final details. on sale october 10th. kelly, i'll send things back over to you. >> and stock hitting session lows as well. meanwhile, earnings season is slowly ramping up. we're going to look at big names, especially micron and carmax. jeff kilberg, welcome.

>> hi, kelly. micron is such a bellwether, up over 30% in part because of a.i. hype, but we're first sees the back of china's back on micron sales to key industries. what do you do with the stock here? >> i want to be a buyer here this has happened with supply, but in the recent months, we have seen a rebound in memory chips. catch some of that performance year to date. it's interesting, though you when you talk about micron, trying to bring back the supply and demand, do you think they have an to really go through this. i think in you're a buyer here, it's going to make sense.

i know we're coming off the artificial intelligence euphoria, but at the end of the day, this is a semiconductor name. we will see memory chips come back. everything we utilize, they want mo and more memory. i want to be a buy other, despite the fact it's been a rough rear. let's move on. carmax, there's an angle here to the uaw strike. >> yeah, shifting gears. >> thank you, no one does that any more. wedbush is saying tight supplies could drive adcar prices back up, so what do you do with this one into earns? >> i want to be a buyer here.

$73 lines up well. or you can well puts, but at the end of the day, you see a parabolic move. to beat a dead horse, we all no what happened in 2022, so that stunned consumers. carmax was down over 50%, yes it's gone down more. but i think you own this a bit lower, i think it makes sense here, especiallying this something that, you neat should have significant support. i think you look at $70, putting a lot of price volume in there, and i feel comfortable owning that name. >> today has gotten really interesting, for lack of a better word. it's not that we're seeing fear and panic, but you have oil at

93, ten-year is at 4.62 last check. the 20-year is almost 5%, and stocks are not reacting well to all of this. >> no, it's not. we've come from a surprisingly good year to date. september we've seen rebalancing, portfolios potential take profits. small caps i don't know if that's sustainable, yes, people want to see how high these yields will go, but i think you see the interest rate, of course, the -- i think there's an opportunity to sift through and pick some great stocks that will have sensitivity, but i'm in the camp we'll see interest rates hit 4% before 5%. i know that's a lonely view. >> sent mishas gone so far to

the other side. what do you think the bigger pain point is right now? >> at the end of the day, i think people are trying to understand, with all the cash on the sideline. it found its home when you see yields pop up to 5%. this is a counter-drew tiff view, but people are -- a lot of growth stocks are finding value. specifically i go back to small caps, some of these names have been impacted, also the interest rate-sensitive names. >> jeff, thanks for your time. we appreciate it. jeff kilberg. that does it for "the

exchange." signed up for my newsletter, scan the qr code. nest on "power lunch," the powerhouseoatr rd ip continues. everything is bigger in texas. i think you can guess it's in tex. i'll join tyler on the other side of this break. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses

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(♪ ♪) where could reinvention take your business? accenture. let there be change. hi, everybody. welcome to "power lunch." alongside kelly evans, i'm tyler mathisen. byron ellison, we will talk to about the status of the disney bid and why he thinking traditional media outlets still have value. what's the real state of the travel industry? how about the post-pandemic