fresh, warm hot dogs! when i'm not selling hot dogs, i invest in a fund that advances innovations like robotics. fresh, warm hot dogs, straight out of my torso! one for you, one for you. oh, you're a messy one. cool, right? so cool. anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations. hot dogs! fresh, warm hot dogs! before investing carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com. good afternoon, everybody of the welcome to october and welcome to "power lunch." alongside kelly evans, i'm tyler mathisen. coming up, tesla delivering numbers falling in the third

quarter as the company gets ready to launch the cyber truck and why elon musk and company should be watching very carefully what happens in detroit. what if the uaw tries to unionize tesla? we'll discuss that next. plus, the ten-year yield rising to new highs we haven't seen back in 2007. how much higher can it go, and what will the impact be on equities? today is the perfect day to discuss it because rick santelli is in the house. >> looking forward to that. let's get a check of the market, just off session lows. really turned lower. dow down half a percent right now. similar for the s&p. nasdaq is up 19 points and the russell 2000 are the worst performer. tyler mentioned the rising yields, especially hurting the utilities today of the one place investors go and it's pressuring the business model. its year-to-date drop is down to a 21% decline. poster child seems to be nextera

getting hammered losing a quarter of its value in a week. there's nextera partners, both nep and nee are under pressure today. >> we start today with tesla which traded down initially after reporting delivery numbers, but the stock is flat right now. let's go to phil lebeau for the details. hi, phil. >> reporter: tyler, not a huge reaction to these numbers from tesla because in part people knew that these would be numbers lower than the previous quarter. they were readjusting production in shanghai and in texas. nonetheless, they came in below expectations of the delivery numbers of 435,000, just over 435,000 for the quarter. the street was expecting 448,000 for the quarter. q3 production of just over 430,000 vehicles brings into question what do we expect for the full year? tesla has reaffirmed it expects to deliver 1.2 million vehicles for the full year of the right now they are at about 1.32, somewhere in that range is where

they are. they will have to come up with 464,000, 465,000 for the remainder of this career to hit that 1.8 million guidance they have already given. meanwhile, riffion out with its q4 deliveries coming in at 15,564 vehicles. the street was expecting 15,000. it came down three or four weeks ago to 14,000 so, again, these were petter than expected. what's in store for the fourth quarter as we head into 2024? lots to discuss with the founder and ceo of ri van. we'll be down on the line in normal illinois where they build the r-3t and amazon electric delivery van. looking forward with r.j. tomorrow morning on "squawk box." >> phil, bring us up to date, if you wouldn't mind, on where the

uaw strike is right now. >> not much changing. there are conversations that continue between gm, forward, stellantis as well asthe uaw. probably a little more formal discussions between stellantis and general motors today but we're not expecting any breakthrough any time soon. >> all right. phil, thanks very much. phil lebeau reporting. our next guest says the tesla delivery numbers are nothing to write home about and wall street will want more. still he remains bullish on tesla. let's bring in dan ives with web bush securities. great tosee you. >> great to be here. >> very, very busy times. you don't even know which pieces to start with, and you've been quite clear about how bad you think this strike will be with the big three if they get that they are demanding. any way it a tesla also comes out a loser here because its workers demand more and it tries to unionize them or something to that effect? >> there's always been a fear of unions at it's. [ laughter ] i just see that as basically a

minimal probability that will ever happen. tesla it's a win-win situation, because when you look at the big three, what's happening here, it's a debacle in detroit because ultimately this is going to be passed to the consumer when eventually they do get a deal and the ev strategy, i mean, this is a gut punch to what was built over the years, and that's really the frustration in this rubik's cube where i believe the uaw deal, if they took that, it would essentially impair the business models for the next decade. >> for the big three, it will impair the business models because they will be forced to pay so much more to the workforce that they will not be able to invest in the conversion to electric vehicle? >> exactly. if i look, they actually sign this deal, i mean, these -- these business models, the street would basically view it as an uphill battle and to be ever be successful because it's with one hand tied behind that are backs. they are going up against non-union rivan automakers and

champagne on ice has been for tesla and in terms of the pending competition coming out of detroit. that's why had this uaw, a nightmare on elm street in terms of what's happened in detroit. >> why is it that tesla's demand has been so soft? is it simply that they have overproduced and can't cut prices enough because there's no pent-up demand additionally for evs? why is it that those delivery numbers and that they have so much excess inventory right now? how long will it take for that to be absorb smd. >> if i look overall and take a step back, if you look at 1.2 million i believe it's going to be delivered this year. i think margins drop and phil has talked about that as well. q4, cyber truck starts production and refresher model 3, and in china they start to gain more share which is why in our view this is a pause in the next phase of the tesla growth story which is why we're telling investors that you continue to

own this name. >> how did they go from a year ago not being able to meet demand to this situation where they are right now? >> yeah. >> what happened? >> demand definitely softened. we've seen it in china in terms of a price happened that china but the poker move of cutting prices was the right thing. i think we've seen it in the stock in terms of stimulating demand for tesla. no doubt, they are definitely going through a transition in terms of what we're seeing with demand in the u.s. globally, but if you look at scale and whether they can get to production, we're going to be looking at a next year or two and coming at 2.5 million, ultimately 3 million. what they will see for a deliveryas well as production, this is just my opinion, this is what i call the middle phases of the next phase of the tesla growth story taking place. >> i wonder though about competing with byb. they have more models. they update more quickly and they have more colors.

chinese models are like some of the top-selling vehicles in europe already. >> yeah. >> what's the smaller one, the four letters? anyway, no just byb which is formidable but other chinese automakers as well and you read about these. these are not like low-cost cheap businesses. byb is like the japan of the 2020s in terms of the impact that japanese automakers had on the market back then so you do wonder if tesla, even having an advantage to the big three, how does it not get undercut and if they keep the chinese cars out of the market it will be fine but how does it not get cut? >> this is an arms race. this is the game of thrones going on. byb, neo, xp and others, some of the best ones out there. tesla has been so successful because of their ability to expand gig in terms of shanghai. what they have been able to do from a price perspective, and the chinese consumer, especially on the high end and rising middle clarks they do want teslas, but do your point do

chinese ev vehicles come here into the u.s.? ultimately that becomes the issue. >> what do you think will happen? >> if you have a second trump administration, there will be presumably tariffs or protections against the importation of chinese vehicles i would guess. >> they are still on them from the first administration which is why they are not here. >> they are still on it and look what's happened right now. look what's happening in the beltway, detroit's big three. gut punches from the uaw but now you ultimately have chinese evs come in so it will add to worsening. the cement wall benefits tesla and the big three, but right now they are in that cage match with the uaw where my opinion, that's really the frustration of building not just the truck but across the industry. >> if tesla had a model two or some mass market car that could compete against the chinese or make it more affordable for a lot of americans who might be attempted to switch but that feels like it's way off in the distance at this point. >> i believe by the end of next

year a sub 30k is introduced by musk plus with cyber truck, and that's why i view this as an early day of the supercharger and the sum of the parts. this is not an auto company. this is a disruptive technology company which is why we're buying here despite nothing to write home about q3 delivery number. >> dan, thanks. dan ives. >> turning now to washington to the extent that our preceding comment wag tangentially related to washington. right now a government shut don was averted. we could be right back in this position six weeks from now, and the bipartisan deal, could lead, could lead to the ouster of house speaker kevin mccarthy. here with more with what's next in d.c. is libby cantrell, head of public policy at pimco. welcome. always good to see you. i want to begin with not speaker mccarthy or the deal that was struck on saturday but on a question of ukraine.

conspicuously absent from this continuing resolution was any more funding for ukraine. does that persist, and do we then not continue to fund ukraine's resistance against putin and the kremlin, and isn't this exactly what putin wants and expected from u.s. politics? >> yeah. well, good afternoon, tyler. i think that's -- that's exactly right in that just in highlighting how much of a lightning rod ukraine funding has become particularly for the house republican conference. there was a vote last week that indicated that only, you know, a little more than half of the republican conference was opposed to ukraine funding. this is, of course, after, you know, both -- both sides of the aisle have been mostly supportive of funding the continuing effort in ukraine. it shows you that there are some cracks now, however, the center on

ukraine still holds in both parties, and both parties still want to continue to fund the effort. but i think it does show some trouble ahead here in terms of ukraine funding, particularly if there is a regime change in washington, you know, after the next election. so the foreseeable future i think what is most likely and representative gaetz was referring to this i believe on the house floor today is that there will probably be one big vote on ukraine funding that prevents folks from having to vote over and over again, taking painful votes over and over again, so i think they are trying to clear the decks before the election. >> in other words, ukraine funding will move on a separate track from the rest of the funding of the government? am i understanding? >> it looks like it. it was part of the deal or the secret deal that representative gaetz was referring to earlier today, you know, that's an open question, but i do think speaker mccarthy and majority leader schumer are committed to

bringing this up in some sort of stand-alone vehicle or some other vehicle outside of the appropriations process just given, you know, what a lightning rod that is. >> so what happened here on saturday? >> what did happen? >> friday it was all over. >> yeah. >> and there was going to be a shutdown and everything seemed set that way, and then -- and then representative mccarthy, speaker mccarthy i should say, sort of threw a hail mary pass and he relied on a lot of democratic support and a modicum of republican support to get this continuing resolution through the house. how did it come about, number one, and number two, what are the consequences for mccarthy going forward? >> yeah. so, you know, we were of the consensus view as of, you know, friday, friday afternoon, that a shutdown was very likely. i wrote identity a client note saying it was near 100% odds. never do that apparently, you know. just karma, but it did seem like

we were barreling towards a shutdown and speaker mccarthy had a choice to fund the government and potentially lose his speakership or work with the republicans on a republican-only bill, not fund the government but not lose the speakership. you know, i think interestingly he pivoted to working with democrats, but his -- his speakership is in jeopardy. i do think though kind of from a markets and economic perspective, tyler, it's just important to remember though that this is just a reprieve, not a resolution. we are going to be, you know, revisiting this issue in 45 days. i think the big question is can the house pass these appropriations bills? can the senate pass their own version of bills, and can they conference them in time to avoid a shutdown in 45 days? we'll see. i won't make any projections here, but we'll see. that's an open question. it didn't really solve any problems. this just, you know, kicked the can down the road, but it did present a potential issue for the speaker as you alluded to.

representative gaetz again is likely to bring a motion to vacate to the house floor. now there are lots of ways that that can go, but likely speaker mccarthy will need some democrats to at least vote present or not show up in order to help him, you know, retain his speakership. that's an open question. i will just say it's important to note that i don't think democrats really necessarily want to help the speaker here unless they are going to be some explicit concessions, and that may then sacrifice republican support for speaker mccarthy so he is in bit of a pretzel leer so from a market and economics perspective the big takeaway is, yes, we've will kicked the can down the road, an economic headwind for now is off the table, but nothing has been really resolved here. we've really seen a respite, not a resolution. >> are the rising bond yields getting attention in washington? >> for sure. i watched dan's segment and i couldn't agree with him more.

i do think that, you know, in some ways the folks are kind of out of their side eye looking at these with some -- with some wariness, and interestingly the electorate is also, you know, starting to worry about deficits again. the sort of politics of austerity that we've seen cycle through washington, i do believe it's coming back. i think that this is going to be a big issue, you know, going into the election and post-election, of course. the tax cuts, the trump tax cuts will be expiring at the end of 2025 which will be an important infliction point, but the big point in terms of discretionary spending, the part of the budget that we're all focused on and what have you is only a quarter of all spending, so to really tackle things you really do need to look at that kind of mandatory side whether it's social security or medicare or what have you. >> absolutely. >> this is just nibbling around the edges. we're not really getting into the substance of the actual spending problem in washington.

>> maybe a greenspan commission redux. we all get excited about commissions. libby, thanks for joining us. >> thanks so much. >> libby cantrell with pimco. coming up, tech clash. microsoft's show testifying against google. those details in tech neck next. plus, thinking outside the box. e-commerce is essential to our economy but all that packages isn't environmentally friendly. we'll have a look and the kellogg cereal business recently renamed. we'll have more on that and on the downside discover is financial after agreeing with the fdic to approve consumer compliance. those shares are up 6%. to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category... suddenly life's feeling a little more automatic.

like doors opening wherever i go... [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me! y'all seeing this? wild! and i don't even have to activate anything. oooooohhh... automatic sashimi! earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise]

welcome back to "power lunch." microsoft show satya nadella testifying why it's so hard to compete against google. let's bring in our guests. eamon, can you update on what nadella said? >> the government side is arguing that google is a monopoly and nadella talking about how important the defaults are, like the default search engine position on apple devices

of the nadella saying, you know, it's really bogus to argue that customers can change their default setting and switch to another search engine. sure, they can do that in theory, but they don't actually do that in real life so the defaults are vitally important. he says microsoft has gone after apple to try to get the search engine default for the bing search engine for years. they havin willing to pay billions of dollars for it and lose money in the short term and they have never been able to outbid google. he estimates, this is just a guess, that google's payments to apple are somewhere around $10 billion to $15 billion for the search engine position, and he's talking about how important that is. on the other side google's attorneys have been hammering him with questions about why was microsoft so late to the search game? did microsoft invest enough in its search product? is microsoft's search product nearly as going as google's search product so there's pushback from the google attorneys as well. >> eamon, we might be able to

hear more from nadella, but how much do you think they see through this and say, well, you know, it serves him well to make this case in the courtroom, but maybe outside he's got very different plans and intentions? >> well, i mean, one of the key things here is the future of all of this, right? a lot of this testimony today has been backward looking going back to e-mails from 2005, 2007, you know, sort of the early days of the search battle, but now a lot of the questioning is focusing on ai and chantgpt, of course, where microsoft has had a big success and is looking to change the search engine game. the question there for microsoft is, you mow, to what extent does chatgpt change the game, and does that give microsoft now an entry point into the search business which is extraordinarily lucrative that it just hasn't had in the past? nadella not really saying that, and he says some of his e-mails around this capture the optimism of somebody with 3% market share, that he might get to 3.5%. he's trying downplay it a little bit as he testifies in court.

>> deirdre, what would you add? >> i would say this is a very good point. i mean, they cracked 3, and if you take his comments earlier on in the year, who can forget when satya nadella says he wants to make google a center. he really thinks there's an opening for chatgpt which microsoft has a partnership in which is a threat to google search. as eamon says, they are backwards looking. in the longer term it is so interesting and it's ironic that microsoft was targeted by antitrust regulators in the '90s for something very similar, right, putting its internet explorer as the default on many of its devices. that's what it's complaining about now for google. you know, over time the effect was damaging for microsoft. it really opened the door for google, so i think that's something that investors need to ask themselves now. they have been quite complacent. whenever we get these regulatory antitrust headlines, it doesn't move the stock, but could this essentially create an opening?

i mean, this is a major lawsuit that's been brought against alphabet and while our regulators here in america haven't seen -- haven't been seen to be as tough as say the regulators in europe. this could be a real chance for them to change things and change the dynamic that's going on in search which eamon said has been so incredibly lucrative. that's something that i sort of take away from the testimony today is just how great a business this is, and that's what makes the stakes so high. >> one of the greatest businesses ever created. deirdre bows, and eamon javers, thanks to you both. appreciate it. crude awakening. big oil ceos defending themselves against climate criticism. that story when "power lunch" returns. ( ♪ ♪ ) ( ♪ ♪ )

♪ (when the day that) ♪ ♪ (lies ahead of me) ♪ ♪ ( seems impossible to face) ♪ ♪ (a lovely day) ♪ ♪ (lovely day) ♪ ♪ (lovely day) ♪ ♪ (lovely day) ♪ a bank that knows your business grows your business. bmo. dad, we got this. we got this. we got this. we got this. life is for living. we got this. let's partner for all of it. edward jones ♪ is it possible to fall in love with your home... ...before you even step inside? ♪ discover the magnolia home james hardie collection.

available now in siding colors, styles and textures. curated by joanna gaines. dude, what're you doing? i'm protecting my car. that's too much work. weathertech is so much easier... laser-measured floorliners up here, seat protector and cargoliner back there... nice! out here, side window deflectors... and mud flaps... and the bumpstep, to keep the bumper dent-free. cool! it's the best protection for your vehicle, new or pre-owned. great. but where do i---? order. weathertech.com. sfx: bubblewrap bubble popped sound. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com

oil company executives today defending their companies and their industry after we've recently seen protests in hundreds of cities around the world calling for an end, and end to fossil fuels. pippa stevens joins us now. >> reporter: these remarks game from a conference in abu dhabi.

we heard from many who said they are providing a vital resource while at the same time investing in low energy solutions. it does come at seemingly a difficult time for the industry because they are competing with the different headwinds. on the one hand you have consumers and politicians saying we want more of this now and at cheaper prices. on the other hand, you have calls for peak fossil fuel did i bands which essentially is saying there's no long-term viability for your infrastructure. what we've seen over the last year is the energy transition is definitely not going to happen overnight and right now we need both and new energy. it's not an either/or question. what's thing really dividing the climate community is the extent to which oil and gas companies should play a part in the transition. they are the biggest emitters and contributors to climate change. on the other hand, they have the biggest balance sheets and the biggest cap "x" budget. so they are emphasizing these lower energy solutions, the lower carbon, i should say, solutions, still a sliver of their overall spending but still

a very hot topic right now. >> and they would have as well the sort of internal infrastructure, the talent, the engineering presumably that would give them at least a head start in some of the conversion, i would assume. >> exactly, and we have to work within the confines of the existing infrastructure. right now it's oil and gas and utilities. they have the geological knowledge and the big spending and big r & d, and there's a lot of people out there saying they should really be part of this conversation. they should be leading this conversation. of course right now they are not. they have taken out huge advertising campaigns to emphasize their low carbon solutions, but it is still a fraction of their spending. a few notable including totale which has been a leader on that front. they have the people that have the know-how. >> and they want to be in the energy business one way or the other. >> it's profitable at the end of the day. in the future they want to invest for today as well as the future which is lower carbons. >> pippa, thanks very much. let's go to boertha coombs for

cnbc update. >> reporter: kevin porter jr. has been told to stay away from the houston rockets following his domestic violence arrest last month. the general management called the allegations deeply troubling. allegations say he attacked his girlfriend in a new york city hotel room and he left her with a broken bone in her neck and other injuries. the 23-year-old has pleaded not guilty in the case and is due back in court later this month. montana is appealing a landmark climate change ruling won by 16 young plaintiffs in august. the young people blamed the state for not doing enough to prevent the climate crisis and argued that the state violated their constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment. the state gave notice of an appeal on friday though it could take months before the actual appeal brief is filed. and the powerball jackpot is now over $1 billion for tonight's drawing. this marks the first time in the

history of the game that back-to-back jackpot cycles have cracked $1 billion prizes. tonight's jackpot is the fourth largest powerball prize ever. i guess there's inflation in everything, including jackpot prizes. >> my understanding is they made it so much harder to win that everybody knows that's not even worth playing anymore. >> yeah, yeah, you know. if you happen to win, who needs $1 billion anyway. >> a few hundred million, you know, i think i could figure out what to do with it. >> bertha thank you, bertha coombs. i'll split it. you know i'm anti-hoto. ahead on "power lunch," the dow is currently lower by 170 points as yields have been rising today to 15-year highs. it was briefly above 470. we'll talk about the impact it's having on stocks next on "power luh. nc" (all) ♪ toooo youuuuu! ♪ (sean) i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro! (jason) sean! do you mean this one - the one with titanium? (sean) no way i can trade this busted up thing for one. (jason) maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan -- switch to verizon

and trade in any iphone and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. (sean) what!? (jason) yup, and on an amazing network (sean) and i don't have to ruin anymore birthday parties! (jason) yeah, that ship has sailed... let's go get you the iphone. here we go, come on hon. (vo) trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. only on verizon. - this is jabra enhance select. it's more than just a hearing aid. it's a smart hearing solution that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive. with jabra enhance select's premium package, better hearing doesn't have to start in a doctor's office. it starts with our free online hearing test. you can fine tune your settings with your remote audiology team. with jabra enhance select you can get the same advanced hearing aid technology and professional care you expect from a clinic at a fraction of the cost. try it risk free for 100 days. visit jabraenhance.com. (♪♪) in this clinic, we pride ourselves on putting others first. it's on us to help care for our clients' well-being; to help them adapt.

it's inspiring to work at a place where our patients succeed. and we as therapists do, too. with great benefits from principal, we feel appreciated for the work we do. (♪♪)

welcome back to "power lunch." stocks starting the new month off with the dow down about 200 points right now. investors again focusing on surging interest rates. the yield on the ten-year treasury hitting a fresh high of 4.7%, the highest level since 2007. let's bring back rick santelli here in the studio along with the senior portfolio manager

with washington cross advisers. gentlemen, good to have you both here. a couple of things struck me over the weekend. one is it was a very interesting article in the "the wall street journal" that compared the performance of the s&p 500 cap weighted versus the unweighted s&p 500 and it was shocking. the only way you make money this year in the s&p is if you're in that cap-weighted index, not in anything else. number two is the rise in interest rates to where they are right now. this reminds me spookily eerily of 1987. >> i can't disagree, and there's some of the similarities are the speed at which markets are moving. i always like to look at the slope of the increase on rates, and they are hot right now so we're almost getting the staircase where you're looking at higher closes all along. now the previous high yield close was the 27th of september at 461 so we'll have a new high yield close for this cycle, and i concentrate mostly on the

closes. i think the other similarity is with the crash that the equity markets, you need to view those in the context of interest rates, and the one big difference is that we condition people in the crash, i was trading in the pits in chicago during '87, is that the minute the stock market started to go down, of course, interest rates started to go down as well, and kelly's pointed this out a number of times that what we have now is the worst of both world. we have a squeamish stock market and rates climbing aggressively. granted there was a move that appeased conditions of the day but with the debt level rising the way it is, i think this one is going to be higher for longer meaning fed and the market-driven rates will share that similarity. i really do think there's a chance that rates at these levels will balance out, but i wouldn't look for a huge correction. >> a huge correction in rates? >> in rates. >> a huge return down. what is your -- you just heard

what rick said. you heard what i said. what do you think of equities between here and now and the spring? >> it could be a bit challenging because the risk-free rate is around 470 and then you have the t-bill rate of 5.25. you have a multiple around 18 or 19 and reverse that and make that into an earnings yield and it becomes a little less compelling. that trade is gone. stick a fork in it. i agree with rick. higher for longer is certainly going to happen the. overall we do think inflation trends are starting to moderate. there are themes of opportunity now in particular because of this concentration of the big tech stocks moving higher, distorting the overall markets. >> it's funny you say inflation because that feels like an easier concern than what we're up against now. i can't even believe i'm saying that. but it feels a little easier to solve inflation because at least the fed can act. trying to now solve the yawning deficits which the government

has to solve and the only thing that could bail them out of this is literally a financial crisis where the rates crash or the feds start buying bonds again this. feels more challenging. >> without a doubt you'll continue to have a deficit that's very high with the c.h.i.p.s acts and infrastructure and right now. overall if you prepare your portfolio with good quality companies that are not over excessive in regard to valuations, very little debt, that are very consistent, so look at consumer staple companies, colgate, clorox, for example, look at accensure. >> it's funny you say this about staples is whether the mag 7 to tyler's points are the new 7. i would rather cut back on my goal kate rather than cutting back on google because of the photo collection of my kids. which way does big tech

represent the new staples which is you have exposure? >> i think big tech is reasonably valued, certain parts of big tech. i wouldn't stick my neck into nvidia and what not but look at it like microsoft, google as well as accensure for reasonable valuations and also looking at a hershey's, a clorox or a colgate, they are now reasonably price and have lower data and lower volatility. >> let me toss one out here that may be red meat throwing into the lion's den. over the weekend at instagram i was looking at a long ago speech by a very young milton friedman and he said watch one thing and one thing only and that one thing is how much the government spends because one way or another you are going to pay for it. you're going to pay for it in the form of higher taxes. we know nobody is going to be raising taxes next year or you'll pay for it in the form of

a devalued currency or higher interest rates, and you're going to pay that debt back anyway. >> absolutely. >> so this is exactly where we are, isn't it? >> yes. it's all of the above, as a matter of fact. art laugher used to have this analogy, imagine the world's two largest farmers, one farmer has to pay for the other farmer, the farmer has a need, it's a closed system. what we have are areas of the economy that needs help and that help will come from other areas of the economy already under pressure, and in terms of inflation, you may think that that's easier to control, but i completely disagree because i think inflation, that the fed can control fine, but inflation, i'm worried about what's going to come from the horrible transition going into the evs. i know i'm a broken cd on this, but believe me any mandate by the government that has literally dozens of millions of cars that don't have enough charging stations, are two expensive, this is going to come up with higher costs throughout a system that the fed is not going to be able to address and

even ex-food and energy. you pointed this out dozens of times on the air, thank you, it's going to metastasize in areas we have no idea about because of the logistics. a diesel truck that delivers things, the truck is going to cost more. certain states are even going to allow diesel trucks, that's going to get ugly, and the fed better come up with a way to figure out how to do this and like in the uk my guess is all these hard dates in the future are going to get pushed back and it's going to be the worse. they will be half in on both venues. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. >> really appreciate it the. coming up, rick, don't worry. we have a shellfish solution to a whale of a problem. the e-commerce boom is leading to tons of packaging waste, and we'll hear from a company that will create more sustainable packaging. and cnbc is celebrating hispanic heritage sharing stories of influential business

leaders. here's the senior vice president of coca-cola. >> i probably embraced my hispanic heritage because my heritage is deeply rooted in family values and at the same time hispanic boost economies through the millions of small businesses they own. innovation in science and tech and patents are winning nobel prizes in chemistry. from congress to the u.s. supreme court we hold positions in many other areas. hispanic americans are and will continue to be a driving force for progress. powering sustainable growth in a changing world. powering financial solutions that transform industries. powering innovation with access to capital. powering critical decisions with precise data and insights. powering seamless execution in evolving markets. we deliver our entire global bank

to power new possibilities for you. barclays corporate and investment bank. powering possible. coach saban, this goat done took over our office. and he's using it to send out medical bills. good hands! hospital bill for prime?! gaaaaap! did you just say gap?! he's talking about expenses health insurance doesn't cover. good thing coach prime knows about...say it one time! aflac! because aflac gets you money to help close that gap! now how do we get this goat outta here? (whistles) aflac! meet one of my new homies! gaaaaap! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover at aflac.com. elephant would've been scarier.

in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses doesn't cover at aflac.com. move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business.

. welcome back. we all love getting packages delivered. well, i don't know if i love the boxes. anyway, e-sxhers great for consumers, it's not so great for the planet. so firms are creating solutions to cut waste and finding them in some unexpected places. diana olick joins us to explain. diana? >> reporter: well, kelly, like you said, we love the packages but hate the packaging. this is especially true for all of the frozen food deliveries that are getting more and more popular so what if i told you at least one of the remedies could be found in your shrimp cocktail.

major companies like amazon say they are trying to reduce packaging, but of the 380 million tons of plastic produced every year, about half of it is for single-use purposes including product packaging and styrofoam. now companies like temper pack, green cell and a santa cruz-based startup called cruz foam are making better packaging. cruz foam is making it out of shrimp shells. >> what we've done is really built a process which allows us to take this waste and essentially manufacture and turn it into large-scale replacements for plastic. >> cruz form is made from chitten, a material found in shrimp cells, insects and fungi. it is biodegradable so you can either compost it or it will degrade quickly itself in a landfill. since it's made from waste, costs are lower than other biomaterials, and cruz foam doesn't make the packages

itself. it provide packagers with the material. >> we scale with existing manufacturing, and that has allowed to us reach a scale and cost very quickly smoot company is already working with rivan and whirlpool, and investors see big opportunities. >> it's a huge space. the total market here between the municipalities and the states and the countries that are banning polystyrene and single-use plastic. corporates are making these pledges as well. there's a huge business here. >> reporter: in addition to regeneration.vc, cruz foam is backed by helena, soundwave, at one ventures and one small planet. total funding so far, $18 million. and cruz foam has several products from cold packaging for foods to protective wraps for substitutes for public wrap. that is big field with other companies producing packaging from natural meerls like seaweed, mushrooms, wasted wool and recycles pulp. there's a lot out there.

tyler. >> diana, thank you very much. coming up, a new name but with the same great taste. kellogg's spinning off its cereal business. what? into a new publicly traded company while re-branding its snacks business as kellanova. >> i should have trademark it had. >> on the igalorin ticker k, we'll talk about that next in "three stock lunch." hi, i'm stacey, and i've lost 60 pounds on golo. (guitar music) i was surprised with the golo plan, i was not hungry. thanks to release, i don't feel the need to

go for snacks or go back for seconds. give golo a try. this plan works.

welcome back. time for three stock lunch. up first is kellanova. trading under the ticker k as of today and trades separately from the iconec cereal brands and it's one of the biggest laggards of the day down 6% and silvia with defiance etf. what do you think of kellanoef. >> >> hi, tyler. it has trouble on their hands stuck between cereal and snacks. part of this is it's their strongest growing potential business. they're talking about growth in em and they're talking about 13.6 billion in revenue, but 50%

of their sales are still in the u.s. the particular sector that they're in is down 9% at the moment. their prices are too high. inflation has given consumers fatigue and i just don't know that the hype is there right now. this is a sell for me. i'm not interested in buying this one. >> the old parent, kellogg is down, as well, i believe. the second biggest loser. >> almost 20% year to date on that one, too. >> real quickly on that, silvia. everyone is saying to buy staples. why is that performing so poorly. is it company specific? >> yeah. i thought about that, too, in terms of defensive plays and staples and such, but i don't know if that necessarily is cheese-its and pop tarts and they might have a more lock on the cereal side and the classic w.h. kellogg side there and prices seem to be higher for them than for others and they might not end up being the first choice. >> i think their only chance

here of the growth that they want and to get that to work out it has aren't played out yet. >> very interesting. >> let's talk formula one owned by media. apple is interested in buyinging rates for $2 billion a year. do you like it? >> interestingly enough, i'm neutral on this one and the apple news got me excited and the good thing they have going for them is the full commoditization of sponsorship and brands and media and everything they have to do with formula one. the amount of revenue that they generate right now is half of what apple is supposedly in talks to offer them. so if that deal goes through there's a lot of hype that gets picked up there and potentially you see a surge in sponsorship media and everything that's apple we saw what happened when they did the deal with mls on the soccer side and the company is financially stable and they're doing 85% of their peers and 1.5 million viewers is a

captive audience. >> people do love formula one and they're crazy for it. z scaler, crowd security firm, piper sandler going to benefit from strong trends inside the spending and it's the top gainer in the nasdaq. what do you think of this one? >> this one is a strong one. i love it. i'm going to buy it type of name. up more than 40% year to date and it's got the upgrades from morgan and piper sandler, as you said and you see a lot of hedge funds and the compound annual growth rate is expected to be 14% through 2030 and it's a $172 billion market cap and looking at 400 billion in the coming years. everything is about ai and network security, quantum computing and super computing and you need safety in all of of this and have to have that in order for it to grow. for companies like zscaler and palo alto, i just think they'll have a massive tailwind for the next five to ten years and the

future of technology and 14% is not so bad. >> not in the kind of environment we could be facing, silvia, thank you very much. we appreciate it tayod. >> up income, the case of the irs leaker. it's closing time after the break. n, the case of the irs leaker. it's closing time after the break. e, the case of the irs leaker. it's closing time after the break. x, the case of the irs leaker. it's closing time after the break. t, the case of the irs leaker. it's closing time after the break. some things are good to know. like...where to find the cheapest gas in town. and which supermarket gives you the most bang for your buck. something else that's good to know? if you have medicare and medicaid, you may be able to get more healthcare benefits - through a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special

needs plan. call now to see if there's a plan in your area - and to see if you qualify. all of these plans include doctor, hospital and prescription drug coverage in one convenient plan. from humana, a company with over 60 years of experience in the healthcare industry. you'll have lots of doctors and specialists to choose from. and, if you have medicare and medicaid, a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan can give you other important benefits. all of these plans include coverage for dental - with two free cleanings a year. plus fillings and a yearly exam. vision - including eye exams and a yearly allowance for eyewear. and hearing benefits - including routine hearing exams and coverage for hearing aids. plus an allowance to help pay for essentials... like eligible groceries, utilities, and rent. even over-the-counter items. and whatever you don't spend gets carried over to the next month. best of

all, you'll pay nothing for covered prescriptions, all year long, even the brand-name ones; and zero dollars for routine vaccines, including shingles, at in-network retail pharmacies. so if you have medicare and medicaid, call now to see if there's a plan in your area that could give you extra benefits, including coverage for prescription drugs. plus dental, vision and hearing. and more. a knowledgeable, licensed humana sales agent will walk you through your options. and, if you're eligible, and there's a plan in your area, help you enroll over the phone. call today and we'll also send this free guide. humana. a more human way to healthcare. a former irs official has been charged with leaking tax returns of thousands of wealthy taxpayers including former president trump. our own robert frank has the

details. robert? >> kelly, this was the biggest tax leak in recent history, as you mentioned the returns of thousands of the wealthiest taxpayers leaked to the media including elon musk, jeff bezos, michael bloomberg and they showed up in pro publica showing that billionaires paid no taxes and donald trump's were leaked. the hunt for the leaker became very high drama in washington, d.c., as well as very heated politics. republicans in the house ways and means were saying for years that this investigation or lack thereof was dragging on, therefore approving the irs shouldn't get more money. well, they found their suspect. they have found a man name charles littlejohn, he's a 38-year-old man who lives in washington, d.c. we don't know much about him. he worked for a private company that had a contract with the irs, so he wasn't an irs staffer. we don't know why he did what he did or how he got the returns

and then leaked them, but he could face up to five years in prison, kelly. >> do we not know anything more about him or his political leanings? >> well, we can guess, tyler, because those returns showed and made this big case in pro-publica as the biden administration was trying to raise taxes on the wealthy that some of them in certain years didn't pay any taxes, but the filing was very vague about any biographical details or any motive. pro publica said they didn't even know who the leaker was so there was no agenda when this material was handed over to propublica or "the new york times." so we just have to guess, tyler, based on what returns he leaked and what they then revealed. >> so propublica says we don't know who the leaker was and "the new york times" declined to comment and that is not helpful, but i'm sure people will find out more very quickly about charles littlejohn.

robert, thank you. that was fantastic. very interesting. >> i spent most of my evening watching taylor swift watch travis kelsie. >> who i was watching was ryan reynolds of the stock draft. he was in the box, too. >> talking netflix, no doubt. >> thanks for watching "power lunch "qwest. >> "closing bell "ket" starts r now. i'm scott wapner from post 9. the ten-year hitting a fresh new high today which means big shocker, equities begin in october much like they ended the previous month, mostly lower and 60 minutes to go in regulation and the major averages, as well and i want you to pay close attention over the final hour within what's happening within the s&p 500 today and utilities suffering the biggest decline in a decade. look at that loss. you just don't see a sector move