tv Mad Money CNBC October 2, 2023 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
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>> dan? >> yeah, if rick santelli is right and the ten-year goes back to 4.25, that tlt to buy. >> huge guests tonight. unbelievable. >> jpmorgan focus list, mel. >> thank you for watching "fast money." see you back here my mission is simple. to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now. hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money." welcome to cramerica. other people want to make friends, i'm just trying to make you some money. my job isn't just to entertain you but to educate and teach you. call me at 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet me @jimcramer. most stocks simply cannot withstand the gravitational pull
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of this bearish bond market. the increase in the interest rates has created havoc among multiple fronts, like a giant grim reaper that cuts down sector after sector. that's how you get days like today. which at one point was so ugly but rebounded at the close. dow finished off. but nasdaq held up, finishing strong. keep that in mind, plus seven. we'll have to spend time on the nasdaq, it was truly incredible. but the damage can be extreme. comstock, on many times. american electric power. great location, and what happens? aep turned out to be
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piggybacking off the bond market. now it's gotten double whammy. the company is always financing and paying out generous cash to the shareholders, meeting air quality demands. but with the collapse of the bond market, a fine company like aep has seen his stock obliterated. >> the house of pain. >> you can't escape the grim reaper of higher bond yields. kellogg, this north american cereal company and kellanova for snacks. they're taking it on the chin from the bond market at the same time that retailers like costco are fighting back hard to bring down packaged foods. every day they try to get the prices down. it's starting to work. we have to ask ourselves before we get negative, is anyone immune to the bond market?
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not really. milk company can be because it's the stock market. everything but gold and crypto, they're all priced off treasuries some way or form. telling us we're not doing enough to beat inflation. it erodes the value of anything paper. after the red hot purchasing number this morning, it's clear that erosion is happening faster than we thought. there's still too much buoyancy in the economy after the rate hikes. you know what, that was terrific, but there's too much money in the coffers, too many people hanging on. landlord needs rent, utility needs capital for the endless capital program. who doesn't need capital? kinds of demands for product that allow them to be escaping
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from the bond market. food and cereal can't do it. fuelled by borrowing the retailers are trying to get financing for the holidays. health care? drug stocks are in trouble, they pay dividends but are losing it to the bond market competition. risk free. and no hospital would be able to afford machines without financing. what's left? biggest and best, only the mega capitalization stocks can defy it. what we saw today. no wonder the nasdaq did fine as the dow rolled over. i call them nation states. apple, amazon, alphabet, meta, nvidia, microsoft and tesla. tesla, companies that only need their own money and boy do they have it. they are coining a fortune with
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their cash. making money on deposits. used to look at gigantic cash management attempts for extra income as waste of time, abstraction. now they're huge winners. you'll begin to see the line item in the quarters, money they make off their cash to offset the miserable losses from the darn strong dollar. by the way, it's a little unfair the dollar is still strong given how much the government needs, but the rest of the world is not covering itself in glory either. think about who has an indispensable product in the modern age. seven of them i got. stalwart nvidia. every member of the seven wishes they didn't have to go to invidnvidia for cards. but they work on them. if they don't have it, the a.i.
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chips, how could anyone else? even elon musk had to tip his hat to nvidia. if you're amazon, imagine the power you need to use technology that stores data and how much speed to allow the a.i. to think and analyze the entire web? our teeny little minds, what can they do? a software that allows walmart to calculate in seconds the ability to get a pair of chinos to a customer anywhere where there will be enough for everybody else? walmart can crush everyone except maybe amazon. everybody else needs the stuff to stay competitive. microsoft and apple and meta, hoarding cash.
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masters of cash like they thought this day would come. i felt bad for the ceo of apple trying to make money with the cash, now i can't wait to see. it's not something they want, they make technology, but now they're making money on money. they should be proud how they financed with low rates with cash on the sidelines. the banks seem pathetic versus cupertino. first back is much better. meta can't spend its money fast enough even as zuckerberg seems to be trying. he's pronounced it the year of efficiency, stopped the year of living recklessly. well done, mark. before you say it doesn't matter and they'll even get hit by bonds, goldman's costa, brilliant fellow, penned something about the stocks hardest hit by the insanely high
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yields. they're closer to derisked because they went down so much. just need a break in the velocity of the decline. oil reversed hard today. maybe a reprieve? or we're so oversold we have to bounce. or maybe they've gone from pariahs to the kings of the realm, ones you can buy on the way down knowing at some point, are perhaps where the 20 year crosses the fed fund's rate in yield bonds will calm down and companies will be recognized for solvency. even as our country deserves the credit rate downgraded, their solvency make our government's bond market and our borrowing capacity seem ridiculous. bottom line, it's bad news for the vast bulk of the market but these are the exception. make it through this moment,
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once again you need the magnificent seven. and then there's all the rest. jerry in missouri. go ahead, i'm ready for you. >> caller: hello. >> joseph? jerry? >> caller: how you doing? >> couldn't be better, big win yesterday. worked on jury duty and i liked it. i like serving, being a citizen. if you get the call and try to duck it, come see me, i'll tell you you're wrong. go ahead. >> caller: jim, there is a travel boom going on but many of the stocks are beaten down. one at all-time lows coming out of bankruptcy, what is going on with hertz? >> that's a really good question. steve scherer is running it, dynamite ceo at goldman. i think it's dirt cheap.
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i'm a believer in the fleet but i think people think they're too expensive. too expensive to rent a car. they got to lower prices. they don't want to hear that. i told them. joseph in florida. >> caller: boo-yah, go eagles, what a great week. >> someone was complaining, saying really ugly. you know what, i want -- if we win 17 ugly times and ugly in the super bowl, what we've done, we've won. all right. >> caller: i totally agree. they played excellent. wanted to ask you a very important question here. with the current environment of automotive unions and employee compensation and benefits, how long can we expect tesla to pay so much less than uaw and will it affect profits long term?
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>> i give you my rap on this. i was member of a union for many years. it's overplayed its hand, america wants inexpensive cars and that's what tesla can provide, what america wants. it's not standing in line with protesters but people who can make cars. that's all we care about in this country, fair deal for the people. skyrocketing bond yields are bad news for everything but the magnificent seven techs. tonight i'm breaking down the top dow five stocks to set you up for what's to come. then a real battle is brewing with analysts on tractor supply. taking a close look at the bull and bear case and see where i come down. october is breast cancer awareness month. in honor, we always do this on
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"mad money," we always focus on what really matters, checking in with women's health company for what lies ahead and what we can do for awareness. stay with cramer. >> announcer: don't miss a second of "mad money," follow @jimcramer on twitter. have a question? tweet cramer, hashtag #madtweets. send an e-mail to madmoney@cnbc.com or give us a call at 1-800-743-cnbc. miss something? head to madmoney.cnbc.com. (♪♪) we're lucky to have this team working for us. our therapists give their all each day, by helping those who need it most. we take great pride not just in the job our team does, but in them as people. our people. and while we're in the business of taking care of others... it's important our therapists know that
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state of the market going forward. the past three months, can't believe which stock led the dow jones industrial average, amgen, had seen the price to earnings shrink for years. even as it was overshadowed by competitors. but it came together for them. late entry to the dow jones average. studies show their anticholesterol drug should be taken by more people. if you believe in no good cholesterol like me, everybody should be on it. but it was the defrocking of the federal trade commission who tried and failed to block amgn's
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acquisition. this was a travesty. came up with a novel argument to brow beat the managers, never mind, pbms do most of the brow beating, no one has accused am ag gen of it. but khan seems to believe that every merger is anticompetitive. every one. after making headway in court, ftc made a deal, amgen agreed to what it had already agreed to. jie gigantic win for amgen and loss to ftc. for her inability to block the deal, we're seeing high water mark of antibusiness insanity. i hope she drops her vendetta
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against amazon or it's another black mark against the organization i think was well formed. second best performer in the dow last quarter was caterpillar. they proxy, needed economic growth to make the numbers. given the collapse of china and inverted yield curve in the u.s., wizards said it was a goner and short sellers piled into it. but jim huckabee came to new york and traced out a different scenario. saying they're more into mining and oil drilling than china. and cat's dealer network, almost everybody thinks is too much inventory, but won't be enough with the federal government
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infrastructure bonanza hits. 13 times earnings, big reason we've been reluctant to lock in a gain for this one for the charitable trust. i believe can go to 30, 40 points easy. if you want more detail, join the cnbc investing club. chevron, the russians and saudis have cut back production to prop up the market. our president who dumped millions of barrels from the strategic reserve said he would buy back and didn't. now there's not enough left to push down the price. saudis and russians are determined not to let it come down and our oil industry has increased production. geopolitical chess match, not organic demand, has oil higher.
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that's why not as strong as crude itself. chevron was only third performer, should have been number one with price of oil today. we prefer pioneer natural resources and cotera. could soar with a cold winter here or in europe. chevron's yield used to attract people to the stock market before we went to the bond market. fourth best, intel. why? because the company is not doing as badly as it used to be. pretty low bar. but there are always people looking for it. when they get a whiff, they can't resist. in intel may be better and congratulate them for that. best hope is a huge personal
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computer renaissance. said in honor of my friend will frost from britain. but i would rather play with a & d. but inherents have never thrown in the towel. they seem to believe there's a skunk works project in what, barstow? but intel has gotten in the habit of being late to major trends even though it says it's number one. i don't mind bit. this managed care company talked about unexpected spike postcovid. now the worries are in the past and the stock has had a remarkable comeback. i would rather own the cheaper
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humana which we have for the trust, i imagine outstanding performance before the end of the year. dow's five top performers last quarter were mostly unexpected by wall street, and the ugliness in the bond market didn't create the havoc some of us expected. i wouldn't be surprised if they give us more strength in the fourth quarter. only if we see an end to the ten-year tyranny, which is always a possibility. "mad money" will be back after the break.
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clinically shown to heal & moisturize dry, sensitive skin. gold bond. you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean- not spreadsheets. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire last week we got some conflicting analyst reports about tractor supply. this is a retailer on recreational farmers, ranchers,
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homeowners and gardeners. i like the vet of mine. it's rural. i like the content. it's had a tough time, plunging $251 all time high to $203 today. that's a big decline in part because the latest quarter was what we in the business call not good. had been one of the most consistent operators and they missed the numbers. uncharacteristic. 3.5-4.5% same year growth, now it's down. the ceo hal laughton acknowledged the difficulty but sounded pretty confident about the future. talked about accelerating prlan to open more stores. you don't do that if you are worried. they had to slash the numbers.
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and downgrading to equal rate, didn't like the uncertain. but "wall street journal" ran a story. they have to retain the old customers and get new companies, many moving to the country post covid. didn't sound like existential crisis. but we got a series of conflicting analyst calls. i love the face-off situations. it allows you to pick the best bullish arguments against the best bearish arguments to arrive at your own conclusions to see what impacts the stock price. at "mad money," we're trying to show you what impacts the price. one by one. retail analyst gromm kicked it
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off by downgrading, macy's, which has been many times and tractor supply. technically he took it from outright buy to the second higher tier. like when i went on arrested development tlt and upgraded the bluth company from simply sell to don't buy. he priced 235 to 250. rather than 16%, it's more 6% upside. and the commentary read that way. not too high given what we know about the rate of discretionary spending and inflation in the country. he thinks the company is going to struggle to make numbers in the near term. it's a good argument. he's not changing the earnings estimate even though it might be
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too high. but deciding on the multiple for that number given newfound uncertainty. then the next morning, upgraded tractor supply and added it to the best of breed bison list. i like that, big guy. this is part of a wider effort to identify the top companies. tractor supply passed 12-point screen. saying market leading position in a growing and fragmented marketplace. which it does. and grown more than 16% since the pandemic began, the migration from the cities to countries. he also likes the store opening schedule and the investment cycle is peaking this year and margins should expand going forward.
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great news. there's a caveat to this call, baker says it's long-term call on tractor supply, definitely not short-term call because he cut his estimates. more bearish guy is just willing to pay more for earnings because it's best of breed. it is. finally the bull case for this one got a boost friday morning. another boutique research firm, wolf research, outperform rating and price target. wasn't willing to stick neck out for the short term but acknowledged the near term is a concern but likes it enough for the risk. can earn in 2025 -- this is the math, you have to figure out the m. if you're willing to pay 19, the m, times those earnings, that makes it $239 stock, cheaper
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than home depot. where do i come down? last quarter for tractor supply was jarring. first time in at least five years this machine has cut its guidance and i share the concerns about the nearterm outlook. we have a difficult environment for retailers save walmart, costco and amazon. but i like to bet on the best long-term stories and managers. none of the analysts i talked about mentioned management. a mistake, the ceo is great about what he does. if anyone can navigate this environment, it's him. i see it as the more bearish analyst thinks you should pay 19 times the earnings, bulls think 25. split the difference, 22 times interest. this is how the big money guys think. that gives you $236, gain. i'll take it.
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bottom line, buy some, if the stock is hit again, you can back up the truck. this is one of the most soluble or the bulls wouldn't stick out their necks for this company. short-term, not perfect, but long term, i bet on them making a solid comeback. dave in illinois. >> caller: dr. cramer, my man, rough around the edges. >> a new dave. >> caller: how are you? i'm hear, do you hear me? >> you sound better than ever, what's going on? >> caller: this $40 billion cloud cybersecurity provider is up 60% on the year. you interviewed ceo george kurtz early last month, speaking predominantly about the
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generative a.i. although beating estimates, this last ten quarters, it has yet to produce a profit. average price target within 20%. with crowd strike due to report, will it finally turn a profit? >> it's a great question. he did come on the show, free cash flow going positive and i think he'll knock the ball out of the park. actual earnings. somebody came at me, said adjusted operating income that was good. i want to tell my wife to take adjusted operating income and go to mcdonald's. richard in virginia. >> caller: hi, great eagles game. >> it's a w, love ws. >> caller: i need your help with lilly. it's trading terribly.
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do you think that's about it? is it going to rebound? >> i think it will. we have to do, richard, see the actual numbers. lilly has had one of the greatest runs of all time, and the actual drug is going to be the greatest performer of all time, but the problem is right now it's had such a big run it's just very difficult to be able to say this is how it can continue to continue to go up. it's a great drug, it's got a competitor but the market is big enough for both. tractor supply is one of the best long-term stories in retail. if the stock is hit, will go back up. more "mad money" coming. into october, i'm looking at breast cancer screenings with
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it rang the bell to kick off the activities for breast cancer screenings, great cause. there's a covid thing, overhang, we'll address it. check in with steve mcmillan, the chairman, president and ceo of hologic. >> great to see you again. >> we'll talk about -- i love your tie. let's talk about the issue. how much more do we have to do? i know you're nonstop at it, what can we do as individuals to get the word out? >> to get women screened. as i said this morning on the "today" show, said we can make the greatest machines in the world, but if women don't get screened, that's the big part. we had martina navratilova to get the message out. women have prioritized other people in covid times, instead of their annual screen, three,
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four years have gone by without a mammogram, and the survival rate detected early is almost 100%. >> my wife said ask are there people who can't afford it? >> it's largely covered everywhere. what's great between the insurance companies and most states and medicare, they've all made sure there are no barriers from a true cost standpoint. medicaid and a lot of state level things. federal government did the powell's act. should not be an issue for anybody. >> cancer in women is horrendous. other things your company has worked on for other forms of cancer early. >> cervical cancer is the other big one. we invented the modern day pap test. and we do our pap plus hpv
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testing. and cervical cancer like breast cancer, if you detect it early, virtually can be treated simply, much easier for the patient and less cost for the system. and we can almost eradicate deaths from cervical cancer continuing on the path we're on. >> hologic swung into action to detect covid. we tend to forget how bad things were. not you. you spent a huge amount of time and capital doing the right thing. but also the machines are being used again. some people might think they got off their game. but what you really did was get on your game. you helped solve something. >> yes. >> that may not have made you the best 18 months for profits but you did it. >> yeah. we're so proud of what we did. we responded, the world needed covid tests and we produced over
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300 million of the molecular tests that truly works and placed pamphlets around the world. now that business has gone away, people are thinking what is left, but they missed we strengthened our core. every one of our core businesses this year we guided and delivered is growing double digit rates. breast cancer, cervical business and molecular diagnosis. the comps have looked like wie'e going down when the core business is stronger than ever. >> if there weren't covid, organic growth -- that's impossible to find. i looked, you're not alone. same with a charitable trust position with danaher, another who did the right thing and people think are falling off.
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there are a couple of companies that met the call of the government and stocks are paying the price. wait a second, i've known hologic for years, wish they would look at the chart. ten years, that's your tenure, it's been remarkable. >> we'll take that. and years and 11 and 12 when they come through. stocks go funny occasionally, right? we're dealing still with the covid hangover. but the core business, we'll put our organic growth rate with anybody. >> something you said on a call i loved, what was the biggest mistake you made about your company? >> not believing as much in our core business when i got there. impressed you paid attention to that. >> you betcha. >> our core has continued to grow stronger and faster than i ever imagined ten years ago. >> and they have things i like when i see a business. anybody try to nip on the heels
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of some areas? >> they do and we go against great competitors, that i have incredible respect for. but we have installed base of 3d ma'amography machines all over the world and even for the cervical business, incredible, not thoroughly valued. look at organic numbers now, we'll stack up with anybody. >> i'll give the viewers heads up and too much knowledge. i was out for a week for laparoscopic surgery of a quadruple hernia. it's you guys, you know how to do it. >> we -- you had a couple of days. >> i should have taken more time off in retrospect. but that's your stuff. >> more and more space and laparoscopic has been a new area. >> you're coming on strong.
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>> we are. >> i think, i don't want to obscure the real story, everything you're doing for breast cancer awareness. for many years and this means a great deal to you and your team. steve macmillan, chairman and president and ceo of holx. you're going to make us something we don't have, one day this is something that will be much different. let's put it that way. "mad money" will be back. >> announcer: coming up, cramer takes your calls and the sky is the limit. it's a fast fire lightning round, next.
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response arer sponsoredby charles schwab. own your tomorrow. [ bell ringing ] >> it is time. it is time for the lightning round. you say the name of the stock. i don't know the calls or the name of the stock ahead of time. i tell you whether to buy or sell. when you hear this sound -- [ buzzer ] -- then the lightning round is over. are you ready, skee-daddy? i'm going to start with eric in new jersey. >> caller: how you doing, jim. love your show. >> thanks, buddy. what's happening? >> caller: looking at e.t. >> that's good. by the stock, it's good. deborah in new mexico. >> caller: hi jim. sure would like your opinion on buy perico. >> no.
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if you want knockoff, want the kirkland signature brand, costco. how did you like that last week when he was on? amar in florida. >> caller: i'm a big, big fan, how are you? >> chief, i'm good, how about you? >> caller: two-part question if you can help me. part is about robin hood. i'm confused about this. trading at book value, a lot of cash on hand, uk expansion, profitable last quarter. what am i missing? >> it's not that profitable, that's the problem. it's just not, i'm happy to have vlad on and they're doing good things, but look at goldman sachs for someone making money. all they do is tall about the guy spinning the disks already. it's fine. $318 is the stock that sells 12
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times earnings. may be partial, i worked there, i crushed it there. hyperbole. jimmy. >> caller: hey jim, boo-yah. >> everybody called me jimmy in the business. i don't know. my mommy called me that. how do you like that? there's a first. >> caller: i love it. be there soon. big fans, jim. curious about all the hype in the a.i. industry and your take on palantir. >> i got to tell you how i feel about them, they had a really good quarter and actually lived up to their hype, i'm reluctant to say anything bad about them. two cheers. jared. everybody else is. connecticut, jared.
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>> caller: boo-yah from the state. >> what's happening? >> caller: opinion on pac west bank orp. >> move on. enough trouble telling people about goldman sachs. who wants pacwest? no, tried and true, stay away. we like morgan stanley, wells fargo, and i mentioned golden slacks earlier. right thing to say. david in oklahoma. >> caller: boo-yah. thanks for taking the call. established position in defense and security. >> you got horse sense. the defense stocks have come down too much. i'm going to tell you, i also like lockheed martin and general dynamics. people should be looking at this group.
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brent in my favorite state of oregon. brent. >> caller: hey, how is it going? think you for sharing your knowledge. >> thanks for being from oregon, i read about a town with a dog as mayor in oregon. goes to all the events and wears a tie, my kind of town. >> caller: i was in a little town until they ran me out for lack off. enbridge. >> tstock is going lower becaus nobody understands the 8% yield. that, ladies and gentlemen, is the conclusion of the lightning round. [ buzzer ] >> announcer: the lightning round is sponsored by charles schwab. coming up, when the fed finishes tightening, where can the home gamer look to for answers? get it from d.c.'s corridors
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accelerating, but we don't know what to do when loan rates keep going higher, no matter what is happening. nothing to do with each other. finally gotten to the point all the deficit spending and federal reserve bond sellers have crowded out natural bond buyers. never seen such a strong linkage between the long bonds and stocks, practically joined at the hip. people are starting to believe that's where we're headed, lock step march into the abyss. you have to be a clown not to be worried. fed hasn't seen much reaction until recently. treasury is oblivious or don't explain what they're doing. i've had conversations across three administrations, and none took me seriously. that ship has sailed. all spoke as if i were a novice, they were novices and dead
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wrong. when you see stories of government shutdowns and deals to avert it, it's almost nothing to do with the real deficit. if you want to spend less, slash the mandated programs or raise taxes. it's not the discretionary spending everybody is talking about. biden administration passed huge legislature that's inflationary. but the real pain is the deficit rhetoric. most recent shutdown verbiage is out of step with reality. you hear the congress people talking about grandkids will suffer from overspending. grandkids? we have the highest interest rates since 2006 because of the high rates and the government borrowing like crazy. there are a lot of stocks that make sense no matter what. we'll find them. given the correlations and the ones that control their destiny,
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it's difficult to avoid a cogent argument against everything financial, how much the government owes and -- both put pressure on the bond market and in turn the stock market. looks like countries facing a currency crisis, it's not that bad, but too close to comfort. we've taken it for granted the budget deficit won't matter in our lifetime. if that's not the case, it won't be as robust with money willing to take risks in stocks given the return from bonds. only the mega techs have the protection. until we get something from washington or the bond market proves my thesis wrong, maybe the rates come down once the economy cools, it's harder to be as bullish with the stock market as used to be. i don't see any elected leaders
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taking it seriously, it's theater for them. without leadership on this issue, may have stocks that do well but not as many as when the interest rates were lower and times were more certain. there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to find it for you right here at "mad money." right now our last call, the impregnable consumer many americans shrugging off headwind after headwind. a trial for the ages facing the music in federal court tomorrow. we have a full preview of what is to come. come and gone. why tesla is missing a key deadline for its cyber truck and that is not all. we will get more. fast food is getting faster in certain ways but probably not for the reason you think. plus an eye watering stat from the football slide heard round the
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