hi, everybody. welcome to "power lunch. i'm tyler mathisen welcome to a friday edition. the tail wagging the dog, how the bond market and bond auctions have become the driver of stock market action steady of the other way around growing concern shares of plug power plummeting after a warning the company's earnings report in the company's report about its cash position and now it is seeking a lifeline from the federal government. >> let's get a check on the broader markets moving towards session highs. the dow up 307 points. the s&p back over 4400 up 1.3% the nasdaq is the outperformer up 1.8%. also the outperformer all week long tyler mentioned plug power, that stock is down sharply. we'll have more on this nearly 45% decline, little over $3 a share coming up. wynn resorts tanking, after earnings and revenue beat

expectations but macao weighing on the stock a familiar theme off the lows down 6%. vegas doing well in addition to the earnings news, the company also saying they reached a deal with culinary workers to avoid a strike. fed speak has been a big driver of the market action this week we heard from the fed chair powell yesterday and in the last hour the san francisco fed president joined kelly and steve on "the exchange" and steve is back with highlights >> tyler, yeah, the san francisco fed president saying in our exclusive interview that fed policy is in, quote, a good place a phrase used by powell when he's happy. he hasn't used that phrase, though daly said it's restrictive enough to reduce demand and bring down inflation but poised if necessary to hike again if inflation does not fall. she stopped short of calling policy, quote, sufficiently restrictive and put quotes because that's another phrase powell has used where the fed has suggested it would stop hiking >> it is far too early to declare victory.

i think that's why, you know, there's a lot of demand for and we stop ready if the inflation data stop if the inflation data continues to perform well and ready to raise again if we need to pull the reigns back on the economy even more >> daly's comments similar but not as hawkish as jay powell, lean into another hike if the data warranted it. for daly she kept the option on the table and added, she continues to think the fed can bring down inflation without a deep downturn, looking for job growth to fall the trend of 100,000 per month and for growth to run below potential for a time it was a nice chat, kelly. >> thank you so much for bringing that to us. >> i disagree with your idea this is the tail wagging the dog. >> bond auctions. >> to me, ever play football where they tell you if you want to know where a running back is

going look at his belly bonts. the bond market is the torso usually boring, doesn't move a lot. it's not the tail. it's a huge market that usually provides stability for the stock market to goup and down. the torso is moving a lot. >> the direction since mid-october has been down in interest rates. >> it has been since - >> in stock action. >> they are extraordinarily -- >> what you expect - >> joined at the hip and we have major news events in the bond auctions this week we had the 10-year i thought went well. i disagreed with rick, c-minus. >> yes. >> like god, it was a good -- i thought a better auction than that gave the 30-year a d-minus i thought that was right if you put up a 30-year the market rethought that. it's concern with that level there. 30-year popped and looked sloppy, and for a time there, anybody who bought into that

auction was under water. not the way you want to sell something. it's like saying, you know, take this car, and it breaks down on the way home back down before it was on the auction. these represent risk moments for the next several months pfl. we'll have to watch the bills auction but when they dot long, a couple in a couple weeks we have to watch each one. >> thank you very much. >> let's talk about the bond market now bond yields and bond auctions have been huge drivers of the market action lately let's get the recap from chicago and where do we go the balance, tug of war between the economic downturn potentially and the deficit, one day to the other and which one is more in the driver's seat. >> i think our job is a lot easier today, because i think university of michigan did the trick. might only be a november preliminary look, but i enjoyed

steve and mary daly's interview and the main reason, a statement that the fed's really paying attention to what's going on on the ground the reason that is, because their metric models are outdated seasonalities have no clue, and when they start using terms like black matter to describe the premium between the term structure of interest rates that makes me nervous so let's look at michigan. look at the headline 60.4 this chart starts precovid fall of 2019 does that instill confidence the way it's been moving down? then let's switch gears a bit. let's look at the one-year inflation. if you're worried about what's going on on the ground this is a survey by smart people and it probably matches the bill. 4.4. two months ago, two months ago, this was 3.2%. a 2 1/2 year low and now it's 4.4 the five to ten year hit 3.2 today. well, the last time it hit 3.2

was in 2011, but that doesn't matter when i look at these numbers i want to know the last time it was higher than 3.2. that was 2008. both in may and june, when it was 3.4. to me when i look that and blur my eyes i see the word stagflation. to me the best or worst of both worlds depending on what your position is. inflation doesn't look like it's slowing as fast as growth would dictate. finally, how did the markets act? look at 2s and 10s right now, 2s are up 30 basis points on the week and at 4.62, we see that 10s are up 5 basis points on the week. also, with regard to that auction on the 10-year, it tailed, and it hasn't been able to move lower. we tested 4.5% right after the auction. we're nowhere near it now.

tyler, back to you. >> rick santelli, thank you very much let's get to bob pisani now for the other side of the discussion on equities. what have you noticed about stocks following yields around the bond auctions? >> tyler, bond auctions were not often stock mover in the past, but they can be now. recently the direction of the 10-year treasury yields have been the most important determinant of intraday stock prices for several weeks, stocks have tended to spike down on higher volume when bond yields move up, usually on stronger economic news but yesterday, we saw yields move up on a poor 30-year auction. etfs used by day traders like the s&p 500 etf the symbol is spy, it saw a spike in volume when the auction results came out at 1:00 p.m. eastern time and the s&p dropped over 25 points in the matter of a few minutes. there was also a second spike down in price, and a spike up in

volume you can see the charts here at 2:00 p.m., when jay powell said he was not confident he said rates are high enough to finish the inflation fight. the inverse relationship between stocks and bond yields is not perfect but on days when there is a significant move in yields in either direction -- it is a usually a reliable indicator this morning before the open, bond yields moved down, stock futures began moving up. look elsewhere, on monday this week, yields this week, yields up, stocks flat. tuesday, yields were down, stocks were up on wednesday, the same thing yields were down, stocks were up yesterday on thursday, yields spiked up big as you saw there and the market moved down. we have to add bond auctions to economic news. 20-year auction will be november 20th, the 10-year the more important one, december 11th, 30-year the next day december

12th. >> thank you very much. for all the worries about the negative impact rising yields could have on stocks, especially tech stocks, nasdaq is still up 30% in 2023 as the 10-year yield has jumped and here's what jim cramer had to say ain't that from yesterday's "your money" event. >> the great runs, they can be moderated by the fed, in other words, if the economy keeps going high and stocks keep going high but the fed can cut off the high of the economy, stocks will go higher still because you fight the fed and then ultimately you beat the fed, and i know it's been 25 years since this has happened but it is it happen once before and this is just another time that looks similar to some of the runs we had in the 1990s. >> joining us to talk all things market, economy, fed, phil orlando with fed rated hermes and ron ensana also a cnbc contributor. i have had the advantage of

sitting here for the last three minutes watching ron's body language and facial expressions and head shaking i don't know where you want to start. start with what rick santelli said or start with what bob pisani said or jim cramer said seemed like you disagreed with all. >>yeah look, not usually right. that's not my m.o. to disagree with my colleagues at cnbc on a regular basis. >> you're free to. >> i don't think the 30-year bond auction means diddley squat. i didn't know we're auctioning 30-year bond they're not the bellwether for the market a smaller piece of the auction now again as rick said, yields are lower on the 30 year before the auction. that happened when i was growing up in this business, bad auction, something buy it at a discount i don't care about that stuff. i care about growth. growth is slowing down fed is going to cut next year. >> you know, ron has this perfect ability to always get me

going. wait could i restate what you said to say you're more concerned about the slowing economy than about the deficit for now? >> for now yes. >> would you acknowledge if we weren't slowing that maybe you would be more concerned alabama the unsustainable fiscal situation? >> if we were growing quickly and the deficit larger that would be. >> that was the past year. >> the chinese have sold bonds and the europeans, our friend john, used to be at the "wall street journal" europeans have bought more than the chinese have sold. the net foreign holdings of the u.s. treasuries are higher than a year ago. >> structurally down from 45 to 30%, but anyway. >> net foreign holdings are up to 7.7 trillion, no matter how you want to cut it jim was saying the economy is going to get too hot fourth quarter gdp atlanta fede >> the atlanta fed is usually

the outlier on the high side subtract a full percent of growth the wall of commercial real estate coming due, multiresidential debt that needs to be refinanced, slowdown in the economy and that implies the fed will get easier and all the job we're hearing from the fed is nonsense. >> nonsense. mr. orlando, where do you come down in the debate on yields and equity prices and how the two are interrelated >> back to what bob pisani was just talking about a moment ago. he was looking at the day-to-day relationship between the yields and price earnings ratio through the performance of stocks over the last week. look, let's pull that back to the last several months. from late july benchmark 10-year treasury yields yields 3.5%, ran up to 5% in that period, the s&p 500

dropped about 11%. we were looking for a pullback of about 8 to 12% down to the 4200 level s&p came all the way down to 4100 what's happening, and i agree with ron, underlying economic fundamentals here are just simply more important. you look at the labor market the last set of job reports we had, adjusted payroll number was soft, household survey was terrible, isms have been down, michigan data this morning was sloppy what all of that is telling us is the economy is slowing, inflation is still kind of sticky and persistent, but we think it's going to be grinding lower. for all those as treasury yields ought to be working lower. we would like to think the fed is done hiking i sort of agree with ron, that next cut from the fed, the next move from the fed is going to be a cut. we don't think that cut is coming until the back half of next year but think the fed is

done hiking. that, in part, the idea that the federal reserve is done hiking, and is on pause here, stocks his torrey rip on pause -- historically rip on pauses, consistent with the 7% rally on stocks over the last three weeks or so. >> let me turn back to you, ron. rising interest rates for the first half of this year didn't seem to matter much to stocks. the markets went up pretty nice. until then in july, as phil pointed out, they started to matter because, as the 10-year yield went higher, equities went lower. now the 10-year yield seems to have maybe rolled over off that 5% peak. there's more talk that fed is out of the game of raising rate and stocks are moving higher explain. >> i think there's an anomaly what kelly was saying -- >> because the economy was so strong it overcame the ruizing

rates? >> there's a case to be made for that since residential real estate, existing single family homeowner you don't have risks corporations churned out their debt credit card delinquencies going up, auto loan, those other debts coming due next year that i mentioned will be problematic. there was just a, you know, a little shock in the bond market about potential for, you know, the deficits to get out of control or worrying about shutdown all these things that move bond yields higher unexpectedly i think the market was starting to price in a pause from the fed and got it and jitteriness around what was the discussion coming from fed officials. i think at the end of the day, one thing we're not talking about if there's a worry about inflation reaccelerating, oil down $17 a barrel and gasoline down 80 cents a gallon - >> did you see the consumer sentiment data. >> yeah. that's nonsense. >> but it's interesting that should be the main transmission

mechanism and it's broken. >> might it be shelter or health care we had a health care experience in my house. the numbers were staggering. >> went to do the enrollment. >> no. an event off the chart. huge portion is negotiated away but the rack rate is insane. people get sticker shock moments happening with real estate and i think might be part of it. the economy is slowing down. i don't see a second wave of inflation coming from any quarter at the moment. >> bearish on stocks right now >> no. >> let's turn to - >> i think rates are done. >> phil, wrap it up for us you think the economy is going to slow. is it going to slow so much that it jeopardizes a rise in equity values over the next six months sore >> no. we've got an official soft landing call and ron made the point in terms of the disparity between third quarter gdp growth, 4.9% and fourth quarter. our forecast is 1.3%

we've got 1% run rates in the first half of next year. we think the economy is going to slow materially, but not into an outright recession you grow earnings, multiples coming down because the economy is slowing and inflation is gradually moving lower multiples will expand. we think will drive stocks to the 4600 level by the end of this year, perhaps the 5,000 level, looking out over the course of the next year. we think this is a good spot for stocks, based upon the way the economic dynamics and the fed policy response is playing out. >> we will leave it there, gentleman. have a good weekend. phil orlando and ron ensana. >> always fun another shutdown showdown no one is talking about it one week away from the next self-created government deadline five days. they have five days. will this one end with a solution we will find out and shares of both hologic

leading the s&p, up 6.5% after they beat on the top and bottom line your mover to the upside to the downside illumina under pressure down 9% works on the s&p results, cuttingarngs eni guidance with shares under 97. we'll be right back. ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪

municipal bonds don't usually get the media coverage the stock market does. in fact, most people don't find them all that exciting.

but, if you're looking for the potential for consistent income that's federally tax-free, now is an excellent time to consider municipal bonds from hennion & walsh. if you have at least 10,000 dollars to invest, call and talk with one of our bond specialists at 1-800-217-3217. we'll send you our exclusive bond guide, free. with details about how bonds can be an important part of your portfolio. hennion & walsh has specialized in fixed income and growth solutions for 30 years, and offers high-quality municipal bonds from across the country. they provide the potential for regular income... are federally tax-free... and have historically low risk. call today to request your free bond guide. 1-800-217-3217. that's 1-800-217-3217.

er with one week away from the next government shutdown deadline let's bring in emily wilkins for the latest. >> kelly, we are back here again. the funding measures that congress passed at the end of sent will run out next friday night and lawmakers have left d.c. for this long weekend without a final plan in the house speaker mike johnson is facing a test in leadership considering several ideas like adding items like israel aid or border security to a bill and potentially breaking the one funding bill up into two parts to pressure congress to pass more long-term bills but the two apart plan lacks support in the senate. we're expecting to learn about what that plan will look like and over in the senate a majority leader chuck schumer made it clear yesterday any stop gap measure that goes through, must be bipartisan >> no matter how negotiations evolve over the next week, one

thing is not going to change, the only way, the only way, let me say it a third time, the only way, we avoid a shutdown is with bipartisan cooperation. >> schumer started the process of the senate passing its own stop gap measure which will likely be a straightforward bill to continue funding into december with no additional attachments or cuts. we are expecting both johnson and schumer, again, leasing their final plans soon, but once that happens, there is stale long way to -- still a long way to get to to a compromise to avert a shutdown it is very much a possibility that come this time next week we could be facing the government running out of funding. >> all right emily, thank you very much and for more reaction to a looming shutdown, let's welcome in brian gardner, policy strategy at stifel what should next week look like? >> deja vu of the end of september. feels like we were just here a couple weeks ago

i think they're going to feel their way through, especially in the house, as emily described. you have these two different approaches one this lattered cr, continuing resolution, a newfangled mechanism some lawmakers have come up with and i think the speaker will try to push that because it placates the right wing of the republicans. but it's not going to pass i think you probably see a situation where you give the conservatives some room to breathe, and when their approach fails, then i think probably the house, you know, reverts back to some kind of regular c.r a clean c.r. you know, maybe some supplemental funding for israel and ukraine on board that's a separate matter, but i think at the end of the day, they revert back to the clean c.r. that gets them into probably 2024 just a question for, one, how long, and two, does the government shut

down and how long. i think the odds of a shutdown are rising i would have put them low a few weeks ago because i thought congress wanted to avoid this altogether, but it does seem that the odds of a shutdown are rising i don't think it's going to be a long shutdown. >> was this eng tanglement, put it that way, that brought down speaker mccarthy effectively, wh what is the risk for the new speaker in all of this >> mike johnson is one of the conservatives. the conservatives never saw kevin mccarthy as one of theirs. i think johnson has, one, a political honeymoon because he's new to the speakership and, two, he has a little bit more credibility for lack of a better term, among the conservatives. i think he's safe for now, but the underlying dynamics, the fractured house republican party, remains in effect traits and conservatives have very different views of where to go on politics and policy, and

it's not easy with a four-vote majority for johnson to unite both those factions. yeah the underlying dynamic hasn't changed, but i think speaker johnson has a little bit more flexibility than speaker mccarthy had. >> maybe a little honeymoon benefit there as well. stick around, brian, as we turn now to some other news out of washington it's official, now that president biden will meet with china's president xi next week in san francisco u.s.-china relations always a hot topic for the markets and eamon javers with the details. >> hey there, tyler. we saw fresh pictures of treasury secretary janet yellen and the chinese vice premier meeting in california, day two of their economic meetings that comes a couple hours after you say we learned the date of the next joe biden-xi jinping meeting. that's going to be on wednesday, november 15th. they're saying in the san francisco bay area not specifically saying where in san francisco.

that's going to be the language that officials are using to set a tone for that meeting is that the u.s. is in competition with china but doesn't seek confrontation with china. we've seen increased diplomatic activity in the run up to the meeting yesterday. yesterday yellen sought to set a calming tone even as the relations between the countries reached what might be a new low point in recent decades. >> the united states has no desire to decouple from china. a full separation of our economies would be economically disastrous for both of our countries and for the world. >> she also cited the intensive economic diplomacy that has taken place over the past year beginning with the first meetings of biden and xi a year ago almost to the day in bali and her travel to beijing this past summer. yellen and her counterpart did not talk to reporters this past hour, but she has said they

would talk about tomics including -- topics about climate change and debt and low income countries and economic tools for national security purposes we are on our way to san francisco next week where cnbc will have full coverage of the biden-xi meeting taking place on the sidelines of the asian pacific economic cooperation summit that's taking place all next week in san francisco. >> how do -- apart from the economic issues which are well established here, how do the geopolitical friction points, israel, hamas, ukraine and china's ambitions in the pacific rim specifically with respect to taiwan, how do they figure into these talks? >> tyler, we expect all of that come up in the talks part of the reason you're seeing this take place in san francisco and not washington, d.c., all the experts are saying the tensions between the two countries are so high it's not either leader's political benefit to do the full dress state dinner with the pomp and circumstance and honors and all

that this is a working meeting on the sidelines of the existing apec summit kind of already on the calendar both countries grabbed this to set this up on the sidelines, but they're weary of it appearing like they're honoring each other orring to something formal and diplomatic. >> good week ahead we'll be checking in with you i'm sure throughout. >> we turn back to brian gardner for the significance some ways we don't need to steal any oxygen from the shutdown aversion we hope will also be happening in washington at the same time. >> i mean, this is going to be a very interesting meeting next week out in the west coast i think it's a general positive for markets any time that two world leaders are talking and lowering the temperature, it's a good thing at the same time there are policy, especially domestic policy issues, in the united

states, that, you know, complicate the relationship. you have the expiring 2018 tariffs which are under review by the u.s. trade rep and announcement on those are due soon the administration has been leaking an initiative to put restrictions on chip exports related to ai and kind of close something backdoor country loopholes that allowed exporting chips into china these are major touch points and they're not going to be resolved by the yellen meeting, the biden-xi meeting and, you know, so i think it feels good to have them talking but at the same time there are differences and there are going to be policy initiatives that are going to cause stress in the relationship for some time. >> brian, thank you very much. it will be an interesting week ahead, indeed. still ahead, the rise of the lazy investing with meme mania

in the rearview mirror retail investors flocking to boring, safer alternatives we'll reveal where they're investing. last month we announced change makers, highlighting trailblazing female leaders in business the list unranked and will focus on accomplishments over the past year that feature women from companies across all sectors of the economy. the deadline for applications is november 17th. scan the qr code on your screen to apply or find the nomination form at cnbc.com/changemakers. we'll be right back. ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪

power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. welcome to ameriprise. i'm sam morrison. my brother max recommended you. so my best friend sophie says you've been a huge help. at ameriprise financial, more than 9 out of 10 of our clients are likely to recommend us. our neighbors, the garcias, love working with you. because the advice we give is personalized, hey, john reese, jr. how's your father doing? to help reach your goals with confidence. my sister has told me so much about you. that's why it's more than advice

worth listening to. it's advice worth talking about. ameriprise financial. trading at schwab is now powered by ameritrade, unlocking the power of thinkorswim, the award-winning trading platforms. bring your trades into focus on thinkorswim desktop with robust charting and analysis tools, including over 400 technical studies. tailor the platforms to your unique needs with nearly endless customization. and track market trends with up-to-the-minute news and insights. trade brilliantly with schwab. in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background]

the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. welcome back to "power lunch. i'm kate rooney. your cnbc news update. at this hour a hiccup in the tentative deal between one of the big three automakers and the uaw. workers at a gm assembly plant in flint, michigan, voted against the proposed contract today according to the local chapter of the union workers at other plants are expected to vote in the coming weeks. according to the uaw, about 58% have voted in favor of the deal. the air force's b-21 stealth

nuclear bomber took the first flight in california. the raider shaped like a flying wing was developed by norp tlop grumman and first unveiled last december the air force is planning to build more than 100. some with pilots and some without. the world is getting more crowded according to the u.s. census bureau. more than 8 billion people on earth but the bureau says with longer life spans, offsetting fewer births the long-term trend of population growth is slowing. back over to you. >> thanks. coming up, losing juice. plug power plunging after warning it's running out of cash 'll get the key details when "power lunch" returns. ( ♪ ♪ ) who do you think taps out first? i think the duck goes the distance! alright, you about ready to get out? what's this? a hospital bill?! for a thousand bucks?!

gaaaap! did this goat just say 'gap'? he's talking about expenses health insurance doesn't cover. but with aflac, you can get money to help close that gap. aflac, huh? -aflac! -ahhhh! okay! oh! duck - 1, goat - 0. get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover at aflac.com -you want to race? -for real? this thing, it's making me get an ice bath again. what do you mean? these straps are mind-blowing! they collect hundreds of data points like hrv and rem sleep, so you know all you need for recovery. and you are? i'm an investor...in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to... nasdaq 100 innovations like... wearable training optimization tech. uh, how long are you... i'm done. i'm okay. las vegas grand prix choose t-mobile for business for 5g solutions. because t-mobile is helping power operations we'll get the key details when

with reliable 5g connectivity. now's the time to accelerate your business. - after military service, you bring a lot back to civilian life. leadership skills. technical ability. and a drive to serve in new ways. syracuse university's d'aniello institute for veterans and military families has empowered more than 200,000 veterans to serve their communities and their careers. from professional certifications, to job training, to help navigating programs and services, we give veterans access to support from anywhere in the world. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch we mobile providers a for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year

on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? have we piqued your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible. welcome back shares of plug power the at energy hydrogen firm are plunging after warning they may not be able to stay afloat much longer this is a high profile demise. the stock plunging more than 40% on track for its worst day in a decade after the company issued a warning as it burns through cash while trying to scale operations the fuel cell maker says it's facing unprecedented supply

challenges across the hydrogen network. for the third quarter the company reported a wider than expected loss with revenue coming up short, margins remain challenged and plug power pushed out time lines for when the hydrogen plants will come online the biggest drag on the stock it will need to access additional capital in the market to fund its operations the company exploring a few solutions including a loan possibly from the department of energy's loan program. wall street did not like this report with at least five firms downgrades the stock including rbc which said the company could need $750 million to boost liquidity over the next 12 months the stock is 99.8% below its all-time high from 2000. look at that chart and that really says it all. >> is there anybody out there who would buy this company >> i don't think right now and that's because we're still waiting on clarity from the inflation reduction act and that

could be a big game changer. the issue is that the parties, the stakeholders are divided on what the credit should look like the treasury department hasn't been able to issue guidance. it comes down to three things. when we talk about green hydrogen, the advocates on the climate friendly side say there are three pilars that should be accounted for on an hourly basis, the emissions you make when you produce hydrogen and additional renewable energy coming online versus existing facilities used to make the process and then finally regionalty the facilities should be close to where the hydrogen hub is located. that's what they say there should be strict standards on the other side, they say if you make its so strict from the get-go there is no way the industry will take off they want them to boost their accounting and down the line becomes more strict. >> the ceo on the program ability a month ago when they

had a filing saying they were projecting a sharp rise in revenue by 2027 and this is a strikingly different move four weeks after the fact the stock was up 6% or so that day. but it would seem, though, those expectations were unrealistic, if not unfounded. >> the issue they're not producing hydrogen they have a clients like amazon, fedex and home depot they make fuel cells for they have to buy the hydrogen. there are only a few in the u.s. once they raise their prices, plug power has to buy the hydrogen at a elevated price and sell it to their customers they have purchase agreements in place ant can't charge them. they are taking a huge loss. their facility for producing liquidity hydrogen, they have one in georgia, pushed to november and keeps getting pushed out and every day they're burning through a lot of cash.

even once that facility is online it's not nearly enough to supply all of their customers. there is a big mismatch between what they're supplying and what they make. >> they need to raise capital. how will they do that? stock sales? >> i don't think so. with the stock at this price, i don't think so they'll have to go in debt or the department of energy's loan office program when your stock comes down this much you don't have a lot of avenues and wall street is not on board with this story right now. >> all right thanks very much still ahead, out with meme mania and in with t bill and chill. why so-called lazy investing is having a moment in the sun "power lunch" will be right back health insurance. it's often hard to know which

way to go. it's nice to have options, but too many can be confusing. for instance, if you have medicare, you may be able to get a plan with extra benefits if you know where to look. a licensed humana sales agent can help show you the way. take humana's medicare advantage prescription drug plans. these are convenient, all-in-one plans that offer all of the benefits of original medicare, plus add extra benefits. with a humana medicare advantage prescription drug plan, you'll have doctor, hospital and prescription drug coverage in one convenient plan. but that's just the beginning. because every humana medicare advantage prescription drug plan also includes dental coverage with two free cleanings a year and a yearly exam. vision coverage, including eye exams and a yearly allowance for eyewear. and hearing coverage, including routine hearing exams and coverage toward hearing aids. plus, zero-dollar co-pays on many routine vaccines, including shingles, at

in-network retail pharmacies. and worldwide coverage for emergency care when travelling! humana has over sixty years of experience and offers medicare advantage prescription drug plans in forty-nine states with large networks of doctors and specialists. so, if you want more from medicare, call now to see if there's a humana plan in your area that will give you extra benefits. including coverage for doctor visits, hospital stays and prescription drugs. plus, dental, vision, hearing and more! look, with so many options, it can be hard to find the plan that's right for you. so, call now and let a knowledgeable, licensed humana sales agent explain your coverage options, answer any questions you have, and if there's a plan in your area that will give you extra benefits, help you enroll over the phone. it's that simple! call now and we'll also send this free guide. humana. a more human way to healthcare. ♪♪

we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪ after riding the roller coaster of meme mania, it seems retail investors suddenly have an appetite for more boring investments. kate rooney has the story for us

hi, kate. >> hi, tyler it's making a comeback retail investors are rediscovering the philosophy by vanguard's founder, preached low cost, passive investments that compound over years and fans have called themselves bogeyleheads they're positioned for the current market where timing has proved difficult as bob pisani pointed out eight days have accounted for all of the s&p 500 gains and higher rates have slammed growth stocks widely held by retail investors. we spoke to one who said he feels vindicated after avoiding meme stocks and watching them surge from the sidelines. >> i think if anything, maybe it's a little bit of vindication for the tortoise and the hare, that i'm happy to be the borrowing investor and the tortoise because while the hare does win sometimes the tortoise will come out at the end of the day. >> they describe themselves and the strategy as lazy investing

robinhood's founder have told us recently he's seen more chatter about robinhood in the reddit group versus the famous wall street bets group and noted a mentality shift to longer term investing and flows into bond etfs bond etf bil was the third most bought fund last week after the qs and spy as they put it income seeking retail investors are trying to take advantage of the high rate region called it t bill and chill. >> what do we know if anything, kate, i don't mean to put you on the spot, about flows into index funds which were kind of a bogle innovation and part of his trademark? >> don't have it in front of me, but overall, passive investing, bond etfs especially, money market funds are seeing an uptick we've seen a resurgence and anything that's offering higher yields a lot of yield chasing going on and the new regime, a lot of

retail investors have gotten into the markets in the last three or so years, really during the pandemic when interest rates were zero, so they're trying to adjust and figure things out here i think there's long-time investors who might go the old 60-40 rule, new investors who maybe bought a meme stock, bought one of these high growth names and now they're sort of maturing along with the markets and adjusting to the rate environment. we're seeing that in bond etfs and higher yield products. etfs and low cost ways to get exposure, are definitely ticking up. >> i guess the return of the 60-40 rule one of the surprising things over the past year, right? >> yeah. it is. again, some of these retail investors either moving their money into fixed income or even things like retirement accounts. it's been interesting to watch robinhood at least try to sort of keep up with the changing appetite for retailinvestors and offering things like retirement accounts. you talk about those as boring, but it's things people need to

build long-term wealth here. >> appreciate it. >> coming up, shopping, staples and software macy's target and cisco are reporting next week. we'll get the trade on each ahead of results in three stock lunch and keep you busy this weekend. we'll be right back. the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated.

custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley.

time for today's three stock lun. we're looking at some stocks set to report earnings next week yes, there are till more earnings to come first up is macy's that stock off its lows of the day but was down as much as 3% earlier in the session here with our trades today, scott nations, the founder and president of nations indexes scott, what are you doing with macy's >> tyler, macy's is a sell and i hate to pile on while the stock is already down 48% year to date, people say where were you in january, but it's never too late to make the right investment decision. and for macy's, both sales and el eps are expected to decline in both 2024, 2025, nldand yes the stock is very cheap and boasts a 6% dividend but the question is for how long and it is tough to imagine it will be very much longer tand really tough to imagine a strategy that will

work for macy's. >> you don't see a path forward? >> no, i mean they have been through several strategies, and it's tough to see one that might work for the department store name like macy's the short interest is over 11% so i'm not certain i would short it, but if i owned it now, i would not own it when the bell rings at the end of the way. >> a quick follow-up to that, scott, what do you think the company strategically should do? we can see the prospects have vastly diminished. >> many of these companies have tried and online strategy, and you have to think that there's going to be something there, if in an innovative online strategy, that doesn't require people to come into the store, that has to be what they focused on look at what amazon has been able to do with almost everything, and macy's seems to go down that road, because they will not be able to compete with nordstrom. >> competing with amazon seems like a taller task but i take your point let's talk about target in the mix with all of the names we

mentioned. higher today a really tough year. it reports on wednesday. evercore isi and the outperform shares, earnings, i saw 27% since january 1. would you buy it here? >> i would not in fact, i would be a seller this of as well. the retail space is just very, very difficult for everybody essentially except amazon and costco target was once my favorite mass merchandiser to shop in that's passed and they have executed really poorly, almost horribly, their solution to shrinkage and shoplifting is almost worse than the disease and it is tough to imagine that, they have very low inventory, they're trying to cut it very close, so it is tougher to even take advantage of what would be a sales bump, and given that they have very low inventory going into christmas, it's tough to see how christmas is going to be the savior, if you will, for the company. they have a much better chance than macy's of bouncing back, but i think they really have to

rethink their strategy >> let's move on to another one. kind of a forgotten tech stock cisco systems reports on wednesday. shares flat today. recently downgraded by multiple analysts what's your trade here what do you think of cisco >> we had to get out of retail to find a buy and tyler, you and i can probably remember when cisco was one of the biggest companies in the world, if not the biggest company in the world. >> it was the bomb for a while there. >> absolutely. and unfortunately, it has been a long time. but the p/e right now is less than 13. strong business. it doesn't have to go through great growth in order to earn that eps because, or the p/e ratio because it is below 13, it is likely to gain as much in their own product sector from ai, from incorporating ai as any company in technology, and so we talk about bottleheads earlier, they all love a great company, a

good price, and that is cisco right now. >> all right, so that one is a buy. two sells and buy. we have thumbs down on macy's and target, and thumbs up on cisco. scott nations, thank you. >> thanks. >> going to be a rough retail earnings cease physician he's right. many more stories to get to, soite ltltime left. let's see what we can get through when closing time comes back

after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?" bacon and eggs 25/7. you're darn right. solar stocks are up 20% with the additional hour in the day. [ clocks ticking ] i'm ruined. with the extra hour i'm thinking companywide power nap. let's put it to a vote. [ all snoring ] this is going to wreak havoc on overtime approvals. anything can change the world of work. from hr to payroll, adp designs forward-thinking solutions to take on the next anything. welcome back 2 1/2 more minutes and so many more fun stories i don't know if the first ones

are. "the wall street journal" is reporting that disney is reporting whether or not its future should include fewer television networks and part of the process is which of the tv assets have long term valuable and which ones are empt pendable and so far determined that abc, disney channel and fx are most valuable >> i think there have been rumors of discussions regarding the abc network. i remember being at abc, i was working for "good morning america" at the time, the day disney bought abc, from cap cities warner brothers was sitting right there. >> wow. >> we will see on that one it has been rumored for a long time feeling rich is becoming more and more elusive a new amare price financial survey found that 31% of millionaires, people with tradeable assets more than a million, call themselves middle class while only 8% consider themselves wealthy i guess the ranks of the millionaires, it costs more to be a millionaire and be rich. >> a quick picture why are people so upset about

inflation when they're doing better i think everyone understands the purchasing power of the dollar is not what it once was and millionaires don't feel like what they wanted to feel like. >> this is me. credit to airport travelers whose drivers are late this holiday season you can get 20 bucks in credit if your driver is more than 10 minutes left for lyft, 50 dollars if you're not matched 10 minutes after the scheduled pickup time. i do like this. >> i think it is a good thing. but i love the credit. give me the credit but get me to the airport on time. >> indeed. and it could undermine, i don't know how it affects the economics, but they got to stay profitable. a new report from the information found that meta's virtual reality headsets have an unlikely fan base. middle aged and senior citizens. apparently, they are among the biggest users and fans of the super natural fitness app, you put on the thing, the whole business, i watched golden bachelor last night, i can see them all in those headsets >> super natural space group and

users over 50 dominate the group. and chicken feed for humans to eat, how could he would not get that headline in to eat? how could he would not get the headline in today. chix mix your chickens are eating better than you realized. >> dog gone it. >> "closing bell" starts right now. welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner, here at the new york stock exchange, make or break hour begins with the rally. take a look. the score card with 60 minutes to go in regulation, 4400 level on the s&p, we are above that, and it hasn't closed above there since back in september so we will watch that over this final stretch. elsewhere, stronger across the board. a big reason we're here today, mega cap tech. several of the big names, really nice gains today apple, around $185, above that level, look at microsoft, another new all-time high today, and nvidia, back above $480. that's near 7% over th