that has to be your bet. >> you look at the 10-year down 4.43 2 1/2 weeks ago it was at 5. that tells you how much rates have come down. so it's been a busy tuesday here. >> yeah. let's hand it over. >> thanks for watching "power lun lunch..". >> "closing bell" starts right now. >> kelly, thanks so much welcome to "closing bell" right here at the new york stock exchange this make-or-break hour begins with a break for stocks. it got turbocharged with the better than expected cpi report. we're going to ask our experts over the final stretch where your money is likely to head from here. in the meantime your scorecard with 60 minutes to go in regulation. one of the broadest days in months looks like that the s&p hitting 4500 it's traded above that level it's a 2% gain it's only the second 2% one-day

gain in a year look at the dow, 35,000. many ticking off after the inflation reading strong fina financials, pindustrial, materials. how about home depot, giving a list of discretionary names, wow, that's all i can say about the russell 2000 take a look. up nearly 5% there are other besieged markets as well. tech market also strong. nvidia is going for its tenth straight update. apple, it's nasdaq's best day since may. yields the better part of the story. they plummeted hitting 445%. the fed is done raising interest rates for good it leads us to our talk of the table, whether the bear case is finally finished let's ask cameron dawson, chief investment officer for newedge

wealth here with me once again at post nine do you want to answer that question is the bear case dead? >> at least through the end of the year i think the fact that we have neutralized the fed risk right now given the cpi print, what it does is it can spark a chase we passed through that resistance we talked about, the 4400 level wait does is draws people back into the market and likely causes people to get into a pigs to going from overweight to being more overweight. there's room for that to the end of the year. >> if the bear case is built primarily on the foundation of recession -- that's pretty much what it is, right? and inflation remains high, you're going to caution a recession because the fed is going to have to continue to hike, it's getting a little flimsy, isn't it a little tired >> it is if you think about the best-case scenario for stocks, you driven on the earnings that's forecasted and the fed becomes

easier and kinder, which means you get good earnings and you can sustain an elevated multiple because the fed isn't having to raise interest rates as much. >> you can't say that's the base case yet >> i think that's what this data makes the higher probability. >> dow's up nearly 550 points. we're pretty much at the highs of the day how unlikely does that sound to you that, okay, inflation's going to continue to come down, earnings is going to continue to come down and all the naysayers are going to have to take their arguments and go home and get invested. >> i think what we'll be watching really closely is things like sentiment. does sentiment get stretched, where does valuations stand. if we get extended on those things, we have a setup that could be similar to early 2022 where you had very stretched measures on that side of things. we're not at that point yet, so

those things are not a risk in and of themselves, but that's where the risk going into 2024 would come from. >> people are looking for yields to come down and bonds to go up a lot. there's a lot of buying of bonds. they're expecting a bond ralgy right now. >> yeah. that is very consensus now i think that's something we should keep in the back of our mind when somebody becomes so very consensus, the pain trade is usually the opposite direction the fund manager survey showed that people are the most long overweight bojds since '09 there are a record number of participants who say they expect rates to fall. because that's so consensus, i do think we should be open minded to thinks moving in the other direction. >> all right one of the arguments has been for at least a year is that they're just alternatives. whether it's just bonds or cash. so we have to chip away at both of those now, maybe we can't chip away at

the bond argument yet if you think yields are going to come down and bonds are going to have a potential rip in front of us what about cash? if yields are going to come down, are we going to get money out of money markets and into the stockmarket? >> it could be possible if we have that soft landing in the sense that in a nonrecessionary scenario, yields fall because you get that recession coming off, the fed possibly doing some insurance cuts that can cause people as they start seeing the cash shield move down, rotate into equities as long as you don't have the earnings risk i think the thing we'll be watching really closely is does the market confirm the soft landing if we go into 2024 if it remains resilient and robust, it's effectively saying we don't need the insurance cuts but the fed is going to get them to us. >> there is the argument if the fed cuts, there's the desperation. they have to because the economy has gone into the tank which leads them to have to take a

cut. you're talking about a different kind of cut, which is the insurance, which means the story remains intact they're doing it because they can. >> they're doing it because they can. the parallel is 1995 they did three cuts starting in the summer and there were recession fears during that time the market didn't confirm it the fed was cut and the market was an all-time high the market didn't believe the cuts were necessary. if they dust off the 1995 playbook, that's where you see them do a tweak lower in rates that doesn't necessarily mean the 100, 200 basis points expected by some participants. >> i'm going to take you sector by sector in some other areas of the market but get your view it ee astounding to see the russell up near 5% everybody knows it's been obliterated. so you're going to get outsized moves on days like this. however, 5% is amazing. >> yeah. >> is it time to take a look at small cap stocks if you believe in the soft landing scenario

>> you have to believe in the soft landing scenario and the scenario where rates can move lower. remember small caps are sensitive to rates it helps small caps probably more than any other part of the market now, even with rates where they are today, there's still a big financing risk for small caps. the challenge is if the rates move slower for the wrong reason, meaning a recession, caps are far more cyclical, far more hurt by a recession than large caps would be. so we've seen two really big rallies in small caps over the last year before this one. 15%, 16% rallies i all failed is this the one that sticks? >> consumer discretionary. a lot of concern over whether they could hang or not you get outside moves in the sector because amazon and tesla are huge nevertheless home depot is one of the best today if not the best, and you have more retails

coming tomorrow. is it time to look at that >> removing the impact of amazon and tesla have remained really resilient this year, which tells you that the market is not sensing a big deterioration in the consumer so what that could lead to is if you believe no recession next year, that there can be a recovery on the parts of consumer discretionary that have been left behind. >> what about the financials that have not done much? the regional banks are a good reason why the regional bank is doing well what about the big players that make up the bulk of it >> the banks certainly benefit from the disinversion of the yield curve. it does take some pressure off of them. it's important if the rally continues and is it sustained, do we finally get a reopening of capital markets because that's one of the areas this that's been completely left for dead over the last couple of years. then there comes the question of

monitoring the health of the consumer, monitoring the loans and credit quality if you avoid the recession, you look at it and they're cheap. >> let's bring in john mowry, one of the most bullish strategists that has been on this network how are you feeling today? >> today is a preview. today is a preview, scott. you know, we've been -- well, i'll give it back to last year we were bullish on tech, semis, homebuilders we've been bullish on the small cap area, midcap areas, banks, and retail as you know a couple of points i would make. the first is the 2-year bond has been signaling the fed if i polled the folks and asked how much you do think the bond is up in terms of the market the answer is just 30 basis

points, scott. 30 basis points. fed funds are up over 2.5 in the last year. every time the fed funds exceed the 2-year bond, the fed always ends up cutting, and i like to pivot back to 2000 i think that's an interesting parallel because ofthe dollar, technology, inflation. there's a lot of similarities. in 2000, scott, the fed raised rates three times by 100 basis points total in january of '01, they cut rates twice by a hundred i think feds have every intention of keeping the rates higher for longer. they simply don't know what they don't know they signaled that they've gone too far. putting pressure downward is showing massive recoveries in the banks. you mentioned the russell 2000 regional banks are up 2 basis points just today and that's on the fed doing nothing. that's on the expectation that there could be a more moderate

and easing environmental with a lending and yield curve. >> do you think it's time, john, to give up on the bear case, or does it still have some breath left to it >> i gave up on the bear case a long time ago. you asked if we were going to test the lows six, eight, nine months ago i told you know. i think the market bottomed last year the sentiment was very negative. now i will say in fairness to that call about a year ago, you know, small caps have struggled, and it's been pretty difficult, and the fed raising rates over the last year has had an impact there, but i do think investors should be rotating out of large and particularly large growth. my issue with cash, it's great to put 5% on the money market. the problem is reinvestment rate risk and if inflation runs 2.5% over time, that's not a way to compound capital or reach retirement goal. i think you have to move out of cash today is a signal for that

i think 5% in one day is a shot over the bow that if you're not invested, you will miss these rallies. if you miss the rallies, it's detrimental to compounding your portfolio over time. >> we've seen what happens in the other big rallies in the other cyclical or more beaten up areas of the market. there hasn't billionaire staying power. it's gone right back to the mega trade at any time in the turmoil market maybe you say it's too easy or it's too difficult to give up on the bear case yet unless you see sustainability that's a key word. sustainable in these other areas of the market. >> well, you have to be there. nvidia was down 60% last year. adobe was down 50% the large cap names -- the magnificent seven were a measly seven just a year ago. you have to have staying power the reality is, scott, there are plenty of small caps that are in trouble, but there's a whole group that are not in trouble. they've got dislocations and

valuations, but they're growing their dividends, they're holding their margins, they've got strong balance sheets, and there's a lot of negative sentiment and people are looking for them we look to dislocations and we want to construct a portfolio that way there are plenty of stocks out there in the small cap arena that have been tossed out. i'm not worried about daily price movement today has been great i think today is a sneak preview of what's to come. there have only been two periods historically where the russell 2000 value was down con sec active years back to back. those two periods were '98 and '99. '07 was a down year for value stocks because that with us the peak of the market and banks starting rolling down over in both of those years, the following year was a massive rally in small value in 2000 and 2009 we are setting up a similar

scenario r & j was down last year we're setting up a very similar scenario where you're seeing a small value doing as well as the mid value. >> do you want to comment on that you and john speak the same historical language. you know it like the back of your hand. what do you make of both of those things >> the key thing in both of those periods you had the tailwind coming out of the two down periods, meaning if you look at small caps historically, they have sustained. that's an important word that you said sustained outperformance at the beginning of a cycle they were becamed out. they had a near-death experience by the rate cuts having liquidity, that's why they can outperform so very much. >> let's show the ma i superiors if we could again. we're at the highs again we're above 2% gain for the s&p. so there's a dow pushing toward 35,000 the s&p is really the one to keep an eye on today it has only had one other

two-plus percent one-day gain in the entire year, so this would be number two of that. the russell 2000, of course, has been an astonishing story all day long it's now above that 5% threshold. so what's another area, john, that you like that others hate >> wiell, the interest rate ares are some of the most attractive. particularly, i heard you on the earlier show talking about utilities and i heard some comments made utilities are defensive play but i would push back gently on that notion. the reason is they were up 15% utilities have big returns i completely agree with cameron that you need an environment a tailwind for that. but i guess that's where i pivot back to. if you look at the spread between the 2-year bond and the fed funds rate, every time you get elevated the rates have

come i think when you get valuation dislocations like we're seeing, with that elevated fed funds rate over the 2-year bond, i think it is wise to elevate in those areas. so i like some of the utilities, scott. ial like the banks commerzbank shares is the one that we own. they're raising their dividend they've got 3% nims. so i think there are lots of pockets investors should be looking at i think unfortunately what always happens, the nasdaq is up 35 i sat with you on the show a year ago nobody wanted large tech they were saying the rates are higher now they're buying it. i like do that as oh posted to getting caught up with where the contacts are going. >> i think the contact is the

exact opposite today as we go into 2024 because to john's point, 23 as we started the year, nobody wanted o own tech estimates had been cut significantly over a quarter of the year it had fallen over the course of 2022 it was the pain trade. now it's very different. valuations are up 40%. you see sentiment is very crowded. it's not to say these aren't great companies and they can't perform in a tough environmental, however, the setup is very different. >> what's interesting, too, in other periods you would say, well, if there was going to be a rotation into these beaten down areas, it might come from tech but because we've gone from -- there is no alternative to stocks where most were, you know, fully invested in equitie rather than cash and bonds relative to where rates were, now they may come from outside the equity market altogether

which means they might have to suffer if they come from the beaten down areas. it comes from cash or elsewhere. >> it could relatively underform not by going down but not going up so much and that could be the scenario you laid out. >> john mowrey, thank you so much we'll see you soon. let's get to our question of the day. we asked you we're ask our guests is the bear case now officially dead you can head to cnbc.com to vote in the meantime the semi-stocks are higher chris kristina partsinevelos is joining us. >> semiconductor, soxx, would drop by taking a put pocsition o 100,000 shares recall that these numbers i'm

sharing with you right now are from last quarter ending september 30th, my birthday, and they could have bought up a bunch of stock shares. the stocks did drop about 5% in the quarter. year to date, the stocks is up 45% and up 4% today. >> happy belated isn't that the moral of that report >> it was a little throw-in there. next year you'll get it. >> kristina partsinevelos, we'll see you in a bit. up next, the nasdaq leading the major averages today microsoft leading ahead of the big ai meeting how should we be positioned? we'll ask plexo capital's l lo toney after the break you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc.

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shares of microsoft are higher yet again today, the stock hitting a record-high ahead of the ignite conference tomorrow tech giant expected to reveal its latest developments on the ai front let's bring in cnbc contributor lo toney of plexo capital. great to have you again. >> thanks for having me. >> the biggest thing that happens tomorrow >> i think it's going to be the ability of microsoft to talk about how the tools or ai are going to be incorporated into

more products. we're looking for big announcements for co-pilot, plans to expand tools, helping developers create, manage, and deploy software more efficiently. i think there will be more exciting developments around the cybersecurity front and the ability to have a co-pilot specific tock the i.t. professionals trying to combat threats from the malicious hackers. >> we could get a chip i think we're expected to do that microsoft is going to still be highly reliant on nvidia chips which it currently buys, but can you make the argument maybe not as much, or is that overstating it >> look. i think ultimately if we think about where companies try to create things especially in the tech space, we can look at companies like apple as the best one with the concept of vertical integration. it's do i have the ability as a company to be able to have an assembly line that has all of

the various components necessary for my customers so if we think about cloud in particular and especially looking ahead at where the ai revolution is taking place, it's partially dependent on these cloud servers that microsoft has. when we think about who is the chip provider, it would be necessary if there was the ability to, again, in that concept of vertical integration own the actual chip inside of the hardware as well so i don't think it's far off. you look at what google is doing and amazon is doing. it definitely is a place that a lot of folks are thinking about. >> do you think we're giving amd enough props the whole conversation seems to be about nvidia and maybe it's qualcomm after that. over the last month amd is up 14% frmg now, i know nvidia is back near 500, but nvidia -- i mean amd has had a nice little move here. >> yes, it has look, they've done a nice job of trying to compete with nvidia in

this arms race for chips amd's new chip kind of raised the bar and then nvidia stole a little bit of their thunder with the recent announcement of the nvidia chip. i do think if i were to take a step back and just think about, okay, who's actually buying these super high performance chips at the high end, you know, it's a smaller set of customers. you know, the smaller companies are definitely using some of the older chips, but, yeah, to your point, amd is without question a player performance-wise if we look at the comparison of the new chip versus nvidia, there was a wide gap. nvidia closed it a little bit, but amd is definitely a contender. >> fresh me for interrupting you there. you always give us a big picture view i want to take you down micro, if i may, your world. >> sure. >> we haven't checked in about, you know, private markets of late, what's happening from venture. are we nearing the exit so to

speak? there was a crack in the door. a lot of companies that got out didn't do well post-ipo. how are we feeling now >> yeah. this is a really important concept to think about, which is the timeline that companies typically take to raise capital in the private market, which is what your question refers to and fortunately a lot of the companies that raise very high amounts of cash, have higher valuations, you know, those companies are likely going to be looking to raise again next year in q1 and q2 so i think on the high end when we think about those companies that we're raising, especially at $500 million, billion dollar plus valuations, we're going to see a lot of those companies come back to market. i'm not sure what the appetite is going to look at even when we get past the first of the year i think we may still have some more bad news to come from some

of the private companies that said, at the earlier stages of the company's evolution, i think we are seeing a comeback when we look at companies raising smaller amounts of capital, that initial capital, those checks of a million up to 5 million or so. i think a lot of those companies are benefitsing from talented companies out there competing for talent, and those companies are going to be able to have less pressure to be able to focus on producing the results necessary. so i think we'll see a little bit of a separation, by furcation, so to say, between the large companies that raised millions of dollars in 2021, 2022 valuations were high relative to these companies that were newer to raising capital. i think those are the companies we like to take a look at. >> sometimes the anecdotal evidence from retails are the biggest story. how many pitchbooks are you looking at these days?

is that picking up in and of itself >> i've got to tell you. it's funny because i was just having a conversation with a colleague. i cannot believe how many inbounds we have from both venture capital funds raising as well as startups on the venture capital sides of the funds raised, we're seeing a lot of interest around, surprise, surprise, ai and then on the company side, it's somewhat of a similar story. we're seeing a lot of inbounds come in with some pretty novel companies, but, againing it seems like companies are doing a search and replace around web3, blockchain, and replacing it with ai. either they're an ai company or want to be one. >> i was going to ask you, are you looking at anything other than that? >> exactly that's where the valuations seemed to hold fairly steady

some woug argueld argue we're it when we see a paradigm shift, and we haven't seen a shift like this in quite a while, i think the consumer side is also interesting. one of our portfolio companies, humane, just announced an ai pin, so i was thinking about the next step past mobile devices. no screen to input information per se, but really leveraging open ai and being able to have a conversation and seeing pins with the world around the user pretty exciting stuff. >> no doubt. appreciate having you back what a day nasdaq is up we'll see you soon. >> sounds good you too. >> lo toney. don't forget the interview of satya nadella, microsoft ceo tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. coming up, stocks ramping as we head into the close the dow is up 574 points

yields are moving lower across the curve. et up next, ed yardeni is with us breaking down the reaction to the cpi print and, of course, the closing market "closing bell" will be right back go deeper with thinkorswim: our award-wining trading platforms. unlock support from the schwab trade desk, our team of passionate traders who live and breathe trading. and sharpen your skills with an immersive online education crafted just for traders. all so you can trade brilliantly.

well, we have a big rally on our hands. joining us to discuss, ed yardeni of yardeni research. good to see you. welcome back. >> thank you very much. >> i'll ask you your thoughts on what's happening here. >> well, the cpi was a great report you know, i'm a big believer that youshould always take out what doesn't support your story. and if you take out shelter from the cpi, it was up 1.5%. you take out food, energy, and shelter, it was up 2%. so we've already gotten inflation pretty close to where the fed wants it they actually wanted it at 2%. with very to wait patiently. but shelter inflation is definitely coming down

i think the market read it the right way and i think this rally is going to continue the year-end target is 4600. it's turning out to be too conservative the way things are going. if we actually go up to 4600, that's actually a breakout, which could set us up for a good rally into early next year. >> you mention stories the bear story, can we say it's dead, or is it too early >> i've said it's dead for a long time. i thought october 12th was the low. i even thought the bear market wasn't going to be long sustainable. but i think the bear story requires a recession as you said, scott. it's hard to see a recession out there with the economy continuing to grow quite well in the face of what's been a very significant increase in interest rates. the economy is resilient

you look at interest rates coming up. that helps on the valuation side you know, the third quarter earnings, reporting season is just about over, and the result is going to be the earnings just rose to a record-high, so all very impressive. >> right but i mean you could -- you could say, couldn't you, that, okay, the economy remains resi resilient. i'll give you that. >> okay, thanks. >> what happens if the rates rew remain elevated, right >> that's fine. >> the fed's not going to cut because powell doesn't want to be arthur burns. so what happens when you put a still resilient economy with still elevated rates one plus one, what does that equal in the stock market? >> i don't have to have rates come down significantly. everybody wants to be a contrarian and betting against the fed. i'm betting on the fed they're going to get it right.

they're talking two rate cuts, 50 basis points next year. i think that's very reasonable and i think the km can live with this level of interest rates i think they're proving that if it stays here, it's really an indication the economy is actually doing pretty well, and rates at these levels are a real good thing for interest investors. there's a lot of people who are basically suffering when interest rates were close to zero, and now they're getting quite a windfall in net interest income. >> do you think we get people to move out of cash and into e equities, and if so, when? >> i think you mentioned it before it's not essential that it happens. there is a lot of cash out there, and it may not take that much to move the market higher, but, yeah, i think the market did very well to convince some people that they've got a misallocation in their investment portfolio and not

enough cash in their stocks and bonds. >> one day also doesn't a broadening make. i'm looking at the russell i've just been astounded by the move today it's up 1.5% you need some level of sustainability before you can declare this still a broadening market, right? >> i'm not a technician, but the technician certainly must be marveling at today's action and the action since october 27th when the correction was over this has only been a class it bull market since october 12th this is the third year of an election year. that's usually a very good year. we had an amazingly strong january barometer at the beginning of the year. we had a weak september and october and now we're getting a very strong november i think we're already in the santa claus rally, and it may surprise even the optimist like myself. >> it's not like earnings were fabulous they are somewhat lackluster and

maybe the projections for next year given the lag effects and the like are a little too elevated. >> no, i think they're quite good as i said, we're talking about record earnings in the third quarter, and i know that analysts have been shaving down their estimates for the fourth quarter because they've been getting some cautious guidance from companies, but companies have to do that in the kind of environment we're in as an economist, the earnings will be very strong. i thought 225 this year, 250 next year, and 270 for 2025, i've opinion saying that for over a year, and for over a year, i've been wondering whether i should be lowering and i haven't because the economy continued to perform pretty well as i thought it was actually -- again, everything has been working out better than optimists like myself have been thinking. economic growth has been

fantastic. i wobbled a little bit last time i wut out with you i thought, well, maybe we'll get to 4400. now i'm going back to, no, no, we're only going to see 4600 maybe not today, but the next few days it's possible. >> with the kind of day we're having, it's obvious you've been strong in the face of a lot, and bulls like you are having to flex i get it i get it that's the kind of day it is. >> that's right. >> we'll see you soon as always. ed yardeni up next, we're tracking the moves as we get closer to the closing. >> one ev maker is sitting out this market rally. i'll explain why after this short break.

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we're 15 from the bell let's get back to kristina partsinevelos for the key stocks she's watching. >> i'm watching enphase after a lighter than expected inflation report it bodes well for future raise enphrase up 16%, but year to date, still down 65% and shares of ev maker fisker is sitting out after earnings fell short of expectations.

fisker had originally planned to release itself third quarter results last week, but the abrupt are withdrawal moved that. is the bear case now officially dead? the results e ckarne and neck. we'll tell you what happens after this break [ "i'll be seeing you" by the five satins ] the mercedes-benz holiday love celebration is here. come in now for the exceptional offers you're bound to love, now, through january 2nd. ♪♪

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question, is the bear case now

officially dead? votes are split. we don't have a winner we'll tell you at the very end. straight up, homebuilders heating up as the group has the best of the year we'll take you into the market zone next. perience, tailor-made for trader minds. go deeper with thinkorswim: our award-wining trading platforms. unlock support from the schwab trade desk, our team of passionate traders who live and breathe trading. and sharpen your skills with an immersive online education crafted just for traders. all so you can trade brilliantly.

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diana olick on the housing and jewely boorstin with amazon. bob, i'll turn to you first. a 1% gain. it's called irrational exuberance. >> that's a great line this is about as exciting as it gets 10-1 advancing declining stocks. what do we have, lower inflation, number one. if the fed's done raising rates and yields are lower, this is going to have a very positive effect on consumer and borrowers. you never see them move 10%. >> that's why the russell is doing what they're doing. >> they're financials. 30% financials in the russell 2000 so the markets are acting like a soft landing is attainable what about earnings? if really this is happening, the consumer is going to act better all of a sudden.

borrowing costs are going to go down earnings revisions are going to happen on the upside earnings numbers have been coming down a bit recently that could very well turnaround. that's another factor. a good part of this is obviously short covering institutional traders have been caught offside the pain trade. >> other pain trade is money going into cap one doesn't a new trend make but let's see what happens if you're right and the soft landing trade really takes effect because then you'll have money going into these cyclical areas. >> that's what's happening i see banks, retailers, micro cap, i see midcap outperforming. >> number one, up 3.75%. >> i see transports. i see mid caps in general. equal weight, way outperforming market cap weight. so the equal weight s&p is up

3% market cap weight up 2%. there is your point there. >> well, it's about time >> it's about time all these people waiting for value trade to come back, et cetera this may be the moment here's the question i have the missing piece of this is the fomo crowd how many of those people who piled into money market recovery funds are going to start getting fomo we're heading up into the s&p 500 right now. we have strong seasonals on top of this going in so your 5% clipping coupons is not going to compare to that what percentage of those people might be dragged in? we've seen the institutional people they don't have a choice they've got to drag in, otherwise they're going to underperform it's the retail people, the fear krounld who say i don't get why it's worth owning stocks let me clip coupons. are those people going to see it and start getting different thoughts they're going to roll over those people they're going to be forced into

making a decision in early 2024. >> it's going to decide really how strong this rally decides it's going to be bob, back to you in a minute diana olick, what's going on in the housing? you know, discretionary is having a huge day, this is a big reason why. >> the builders are happy because the mortgage rate took a leg lower. it's as simple as that with rates going briefly at 8%, dropped 18 basis points to 7.7 mortgage rates loosely follow the yield on the treasury. i shares took that up. rates could drive more demanltd. they got crushed last month when rates went over 8% they've been buying down mortgage rates to help their customers. this could help them save some of that money. the question now is how much

lower can mortgage rates go. really i think we need to see a 6 on the 30-year fix, a 6-handle to get more potential buyers in the door not to mention more housing supplies. >> gives you an idea where we've been, diadiana. a 6 is a breath of fresh air. >> i still remember 3. >> of course a lot of people do diana, thank you so much julia boorstin, what's happening with snap? >> snap shares are surging after amazon said it will run shopping apps on snap and will allow snapchat users within the app to buy products wound having to swipe away and leave it's seen as a boost to snap's ad business and why shares are up 7.5%. amazon also has a partnership from in pinterest and meta that was announced just last week and evercore saying these partnerships could, quote, help

drive more robust overall ad targeting and measurement on meta and snap's ad platforms and potentially grater user engagement by keeping users on its apps during transactions tiktok has become a social shopping behemoth. >> julia boorstin, thank you so much there's the sound effect for the two-minute warning 20 fed speakers this week, bob. >> thank god i'm not steve liesman. that man is a saint. >> we have comments from goolsbee they're dpoung to filter in a big way in the next few days let's see what they collectively have to say. you've got cpi, ppi. >> let's see if the ppi kind of supports this. heaven knows it could reverse. i don't think so my conspiracy theory is i'm feeling better, a lot more

bullish. the onus is on the bears at this point. we've had two bar markets in the year remember, january to september of last year when we were down 25% and then we had another bear market from the end of july to the end of october we were down 11% or 12%. two bear markets in a year we've gone nowhere for two years. how many more bear markets do we need to convince people the low was put in in september or october of last year i think the onus is on the bears. i think the soft landing is becoming more attainable. >> i can still see us being on the bulls to prove we're not going to have these lag effects that's going to push the economy off the edge at a time when consumer spending has slowed a bit. we've got the american data out. the jury is still out. as i said yesterday, you've got people dug in on both sides of the fence. it's going to be hard to get either side off of that. >> i love the quotes, raising those numbers for next year. >> for next year they're still looking for 3900

for this. >> long-term bull, short-term bears. >> we're going to get only the second two-plus percentage gain for the s&p. and the russell's going to close higher by more than 5% just an astounding day for stocks i'll sending it into o.t. with morgan and what a day it's been green across the screen as the bulls take charge. it's the best day for the s&p since january. that is the scorecard on wall street, but the action is just getting started. welcome to "closing bell" overtime i'm morgan brennan jon fortt is on assignment we've got full coverage throughout the day we're going to take a technical look at the next key levels to watch when we're joined by piper sandler's technician craig johnson and rich weiss with american century we'll have his take on whether