>> the stock has performed well off of earnings. they have been active in a lot of deal making and m&fx. operational efficiency. >> taking a look, just a short time ago, the dow was at session highs. the s&p and the nasdaq both up just about a quarter of a per sent. that's going to do it for us. we have "the exchange" starting right now. welcome to "the exchange." i'm kelly evans. the investment world has lost a legend, but charlie munger's wit and wisdom lives on. we'll speak to two share holders what this means as berkshire as a company and where they are seeing opportunities. the fed is done hiking and will cut rates, says our one of

our guests. and it's all about the cloud and the consumer inexchange, in name up 70% this year. i bet you can guess it. before all of that, let's start with the markets, which are close to session highs after losing steam earlier. dom chu has the latest. >> so kelly, green across the screen right now. the dow up triple digits, about 123 points to the upside. 35,539 the last trade for the blue chip index. it's similar percentage gain for the s&p 500, now solidly above the 4500 mark, up about one quarter of 1%. and the nasdaq, 14,312, up 30 points. so it's modest, but it continues this nice month that we have had in november for the stock market overall. remember, one to have best months that we have seen overall in decades. so keep an eye on those markets. one other place i want to focus

on, we talked about it yesterday. the reason why is because gold prices continue to tick higher. it's not gang busters, 1/3 of 1%. may not seem like a lot. but at 2,046 per troy ounce, we are at or near the highest levels of this year. it was august of 2020 over here, that was in t 2089, the high. so we're about $40 from record high prices on gold. and on the other end of the spectrum, on the stock side of things, the mean stocks are back again. i'm not sure if that's good or bad. but game stop shares are up 24% on much heavier than average daily trading volumes, up $3.31 to $16.78. we're still down 9% for the year so far. but this spike over here, just in the last couple of days, has been massive for the move

overall and on heavy volume. there's been a pickup on internet messaging boards. of course, earnings are coming up next week on december 6th. so there seems to be this kind of resurgence heading into year end, not sure what that does for the bullish market narrative. take it for what it's worth, gamestop with a 24% gain today. back over to you. >> that's surprising. we'll talk about that later. perhaps it's the perfect segue to talk about charlie munger. charlie munger, berkshire hathaway's vice chair, has died at the age of 99. he played a key role in the company's rise, building berkshire into an investment power house. buffet said -- >> here's a look at munger's legacy. charlie munger was best known as warren buffett's right hand man. their investing partnership dating back decades. >> every time i'm with charlie,

i have a new idea that causes me to rethink certain things. we've had absolutely -- we have had so much fun in the partnership of the years. >> it's been almost hilarious, it's been so much fun. >> reporter: buffet credits him with teaching him the importance of paying up for high quality businesses. >> when you get me away from the idea of buying very social companies at very cheap prices, knowing that there was some small proifit, and looking for really fun businesses. >> it's not that fun buying businesses where you hope it liquidates before it goes broke. >> reporter: they had deals like their 1972 purchase of see's candies, and the decision in the '80s to buy a stake in coca cola. before his berkshire days, munger owned his own investment firm and practiced law. in 1962, he and a group of

attorneys founded munger tolls, known as munger tolls and olson, a prominent law firm. munger grew up in omaha, nebraska, and as teenagers, they worked at buffet's grandfather's grocery store, but not at the same time. it wasn't untilt buffet was in his 20s and munger was in his 30s that they were introduced to each other. >> we had dinner together in 1959. in five minutes, charlie was rolling on the floor laughing at his own jokes. >> reporter: they spent hours on the telephone, talking investments. buffet earned munger to trade a career in law to one in investing. >> i met charlie and he was practicing law. i said it was okay as a hobby but it was a lousy business. >> fortunately, i listened. >> reporter: from 1962 until 1975, munger's investment partnership produced a 19.8%

compound annual return, versus just 5% for the dow. it wasn't until 1978 that he joined berkshire as vice chairman. but his risk averse and pragmatic approach to investing was a major influence on buff fret the time they first met, helping berkshire hathaway grow into a multibillion conglomerate. munger, however, didn't limit himself to just berkshire. he was chairman of westco financial until it was assimilated into berkshire. he was known for his straight shooting style and dead pan humor where he interacted with his investors. munger then moved the show and his growing collection of fans to another company where he remained chairman. the daily journal. >> charlie? >> yeah. >> one of my favorite lines from you is you want to hire the guy with the iq of 130 that thinks

it's 120 and the guy that has an iq of 150 who thinks it's 170 will kill you. >> you must be thinking of elon musk. >> reporter: he brought his one liners to berkshire hath aware's meetings. too. >> luckily, there's a large supply. traders that go into trading cryptocurrencies, it's just disgusting. it's like something else is trading turds and you decide you can't be left out. >> charlie is big on lowering expectations. >> absolutely. that's the way i got married. [ laughter ] my wife lowered her expectations. >> reporter: despite a net worth of around $2 billion, for munger, money wasn't everything. >> all you succeed at doing in your life is to get early rich

from holding little bits of paper. you get better and better, and if that's all you have, it's a failed life. life is more -- [ applause ] -- than being shrewd at passing wealth accumulation. >> well, that's true. >> becky quickman has covered berkshire over the years and sat down with munger two weeks ago for an interview ahead of his 100th birthday. he said he didn't ever think berkshire would get to $100 billion in size. he attributed their success to being a little crazy and a little less stupid than most other people. another factor,living well into their 90s, which gave him and warren a much longer time to become wiser as investors. he was proud of berkshire's $160 billion cash pile, something that puts the next generation of leaders in a great spot.

let's get more on his legacy and what his passing means for share holders with two long-time cnbc voices and knew charlie personally. bill stone joins me, with bill smeed. so really i appreciate you both joining us. bill stone, what are your thoughts? >> well, obviously it's sad and i will certainly, as i go to the meeting again next year, miss his wit. i think even more, maybe his candor. i always think of the differences, you know, you really always knew where charlie stood on things and obviously a brilliant mind, as well. because just blathering out something is not great, but he knew what he was talking about. whereas, you know, with warren, you have to listen a little closer, because he's usually going to wrap it into a story or a much nicer kind of analogy to take the edge off a little bit,

but i kind of enjoyed the little more edgy part that he made it fun. >> any concerns, bill stone, about being a berkshire holder with his passing? >> no, obviously when you lose one of the two greatest investors of all time, that's not the good thing. i think the thing that -- the consolation is, maybe two parts. one is, you know, buffet even said he worked with charlie so long he knew what he was going to say before he said it, and you still have buffet. and lastly, it's obviously points to eventually that will happen again. but the firm has changed. it is, buffet has said, built to last. they've already turned a small amount of money into a very large company. you don't need the two greatest investors of all time to run it anymore. i like it again, but it's -- maybe this is a munger thing,

you didn't be too greedy. you can't expect to duplicate that again. >> bill smeed, is what would you add? >> charlie and warren have been the greatest investment teachers of all time. we hate to lose charlie. they're both incredibly witty. but charlie doesn't care who he offends in the process of laying out his logic. and that political incorrectness of charlie was very valuable. you know, he was the solomon of the business world for the last 40 years. and warren knew it. warren is a brilliant guy, but he likes to be liked. and so, when climate change comes up, charlie would say, why don't we build a sea wall? nobody else thought of that. nobody brought it up. of course, it's way less

expensive than what we're doing. but you get the idea. >> yeah, he had this -- again, it kind of comes from the confidence of his deep learning and his experience. he doesn't just say these things in an uninformed way. he says it pulling on all these different sources that most people respect taking the time to red or look at. >> he was a scientist, a mathematician, an architect, and a harvard trained lawyer. so i use the example, at the end of '21, he said this is the biggest financial euphoria episode in my career, which we now know is 75 years, because the totality of it. well, as a harvard trained lawyer, you have to unpack that word "totality." the way we look at it, those 1% interest rates created the tune inmania in stuff like crypto. you know how much he hated crypto. and then memes. that's still going. combined with the south seas bubble, which was a massive

growth stock bubble, both of which came out of massive federal government monetized debt. and guess what? that's where we are. >> i thought it was interesting also, that even as a lot of the times his criticisms of bitcoin and things like that, you think the guy is in his 90s. but in 2008, he made this big investment into byd, swi a chinese electric vehicle company that only in the last couple of years has gone main stream. he held onto that for 15 years. there were periods of times sales were down, they were underperforming. that's why his comments about tesla are interesting. he didn't just have a knee jerk reaction to new things as being unpalatable. >> he was very forward thinking. again, those multidisciplinary view of the world grounded heavily in economics. he used to always say, invert. always invert.

my economy professor in college said that economics was like physics. for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. charlie was always thinking about the opposite reaction. and that put him ahead of the game all the time. >> what would the opposite be? he was great at psychology and obviously great at investing. implications for you as a berkshire shareholder? >> yeah. we would like to see todd combs and ted wesler emerge and understand a lot more about their outstanding investments. to me, it seems like it would be good for war on the bring up a couple of alter egos. that's a big void. charlie is going to leave a big void. he had a huge intellect, and you know, 75 years of experience. so it's probably atwo-person

fill. >> yeah, there are some great podcasts from the past year. so a couple with the nebraska market that both have attended. but very smart people but very different from charlie and warren. bill stone, what would your last word be, especially for those who questioned whether people will ever be able, and i guess you are following in their footsteps, but be able to replicate the success that they had? >> i think that's a tall order. i wouldn't be too greedy about that. i do think there's a good chance that at least you can keep the culture in tact, and make it what i love about the company, which is they're not going to give up -- or they're not going to take an extra risk that might sink the entire firm just to earn slightly extra. and that is valuable in this world, that it's the place where you can own a large percentage of berkshire and sleep well at night. it may not outperform all the time, but you can feel good

about it. i think that can continue. you know, i think, again, it's financial strength with all the cash that they can buy back share it is it has to evolve into doing -- he's been doing it, but doing even more of that. and time will tell. it will be interesting to watch. >> we've talked about how you guys were in occidental, which became something berkshire was very involved with. the question extends to berkshire and other investment professionals trying to replicate their success. what do you think that looks like today? >> first of all, you don't try to replicate their success, you just try to create some success. our job is to meet an economic need, that's what we are trying to do is to create wealth for people that have investments in common stock. but charlie said at the most recent annual meeting that he thought that the stock market would do relatively poorly the next five to ten years. warren chipped in and said, you know, if i were running small

amounts of money, i could do just as well as i always did. compared to berkshire hathaway, we run much smaller amounts of money. so it made us feel good about keeping our discipline going. >> great point. thank you both. appreciate your time today with those reflections. joining me for a look back at charlie munger's life and legacy. tune into our cnbc special tomorrow airing at 8:00 p.m. eastern. next hour, we'll speak with mario gabelli about the impact munger and buffet have had on the investment community at 2:00 p.m. eastern. we have another development in the sale of the dallas mavericks. contessa brewer has the latest. >> reporter: we are hearing from the families. marianed aleson is the widow of the ceo and chairman of las vegas sands. the news yesterday that he would

sell about a 10% share of her stake to purchase the dallas mavericks. the dumont family, that's patrick dumont, he is currently the president and coo of las vegas samdzs. we just received this statement that says -- >> they go on to say that they want to win and have a team that proudly represents the greater dfw area and sevrves as a valuable member of the community. here's why this may matter, they have been trying to get texas to legalize gambling there for years and spent millions and millions, both the family

personally and las vegas sands. when you put down roots, you're demonstrating to the local community leaders that you're here to stay, and i think that the intent would be to coax them into being air partners in the move to get gambling legalized in texas. las vegas sands stock, off by 4.5% today. it's negative for the year, which basically means investors are totally discounting the fact that there has been this rebound in macau and singapore that has been worth watching and noting. >> the mavericks, who is selling the stake? >> mark cuban, but he's going to retain some ownership of the team and retains operational control. so he will still be running the mavericks, and it will be the addleson and dumont family who are the majority shareholders of the team. that provides them a carrot and stick when it goes forward to this gambling license, too. >> your point is well taken.

interesting to see cuban selling part of his stake, leaving "shark tank" and looking to spend more time with his sons. thank you, contessa. coming up next, cut, catalysts and concerns. we'll ask bank of america's top economist about his read on the consumer. plus, the action, the story, and the trade on three bellwether names for different parts of the economy. that's coming up. and here is a look at markets. dow is up 115 points, around session highs. s&p up to 4563. nasdaq up 13. ten-year note sinking to 4.28. back after this.

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ing welcome back to "the exchange." the latest q3 gdp reading shows the economy growing at a much faster 5.2% annual pace versus the 4.9% estimate. stronger than expected business investment, government spending, inventory growth contributed, as well. and earlier today, jamie dimon says he's worried about the sustainability of last quarter's growth rate. >> i just think we have made a lot of mistakes, and so -- but

when people look at the current economy and things are going good, stocks are up, we've had a little bit of drugs injected directly into our system, called fiscal stimulation. the largest we have ever had in peacetime. and qe, the largest monetary stimulation. two different things. different effects, but they are drugs running through system. they create this sugar high, and we're in a sugar high. i don't know if it will end in a soft landing or something like that. but people say corporate profits are up. yeah, because people are spending a lot of money. where did they get the money? the government gave it to them. when they stop spending money, corporate profits go down. so i'm worried we're in that sugar high and we don't understand it. we've never had qt before. i think it may bite more people. >> my next guest is a little more optimistic. he still sees a soft landing and says the fed is done hiking. joining me is the head of u.s.

economics and securities. at least jamie is not your boss, michael, but still, i thought those comments were quite interesting. why do you have a little bit more glass half full take on things? >> i guess i wouldn't agree that the economy is in a sugar high per se. yes, if you look at the q3 gdp data at 5.2%, you think things are roearing, and they were in that quarter, with you i think more of that is a one-off. there are reasons to suspect that the economy is going to moderate. so yes, i would agree with him that some of the growth has been driven by fiscal policy, as well as prior monetary policy easing. but we have been tightening policy for a long time and engaged in quantitative tightening. so we think the consumer balance sheets are strong enough. we think the labor market will hold up enough where some of the

outperformance in 2023, which was driven mostly by the consumer over the course of the year will keep the economy out of recession in 2024. so we look for a slowdown. >> yeah. >> and we do have concerns about a dropoff in activity. but i don't think we're seeing that yet. >> one more and then i want to ask you about the fed. consumers writ large seem to almost share damy diamond's view of things. the majority of people expect that we're going into recession. so he's picking up on something out there, that maybe the data can't tell us, but people's instincts can somehow tell us. chickens have not yet come home to roost. >> i think there's some truth to that, and i think it's fair that there is a difference with somebody like me who looks at the aggregate statistics and then looking at an individual household, where inflation matters a lot, where the cost of home ownership and higher mortgage rates matt ear lot.

so food and energy prices tend to reflect more strongly on sentiment. but last year, we added millions to the workforce. that means greater growth in overall income, so the economy consumption as a whole can deep growing. so there is a gap between what the individual household feels and what the aggregate household feels. what the narrative could be, what if the labor market slows down. then that negative sentiment could take hold and you could see a sharper pullback in consumption. not our baseline view, but a risk we're watching. >> we all know that once that -- if or when that happens, game over. but in the meantime -- >> right. >> you think either way the fed is done hiking and the first cut is june? >> that's right, we do. certainly, i think like you have been hearing from some fed members this week, the data since the november meeting have gone in the direction of softer

growth and economic ctivity, slower employment growth, and some diminishment in inflation. is it enough to get them cutting in early 2024? probably not. but i think the messaging will shift from hawkish holds, hey, we didn't hike today but we could, to, you know, a world where it's like a dovish hold. things are moving in our direction, but it's about enough confidence before we start cuts. for us, that means probably you're getting cut around the middle of the year, although if activity falls off more sharply, you'll get them sooner. i think it's that hawkish hold to dovish hold transition we're in right now. >> i know that they know intellectually they should bring down the fed funds rate if inflation keeps falling, but i think it's hard to explain and communicate. so what do you think will happen with the inflation rate? do we stall out here, does it move down more sharply? what do you think? >> relative to where markets are, we think inflation comes

down but a little more slowly. that's mainly because i'll say what's left in the disinflation process to get it down to two, is disinflation in services. if you look back in time, services never has deflation. services price, as a whole, never really fall. they just rise more slowly. so we need to get services inflation down, and we think that's going to take longer. we think it still happens, and it does open the door for a gradual cautious cutting cycle of communication issues aside. but we have it getting down to the fed's target by the end of 2025, but still being slightly above 2% at that time. so directionally we're the same but things are coming down more slowly. >> no sugar high here. just a steady protein diet. >> mediterranean diets over here. >> fish and vegetables. thank you so much. >> thank you.

let's get to the housing market now where falling bond immediates mean lower mortgage rates. diana has the latest. >> kelly, mortgage rates fell last week for the fourth time in five weeks, and home buyers do appear to be responding. demand from current homeowners to refinance fell sharply. so last week, the average rate on the 30-year fixed fell to 7.3%, the weekly average from the mortgage banker's association. rates have come down about 50 basis points in just the last six weeks. mortgage applications to buy a home rose 5%, 19% lower than a year ago, because home prices are not just rising, but the gains are getting bigger. applications to refinance a home loan plunged 9% for the week. and just 1% higher than the same week a year ago. rates are still 88 basis points than they were a year ago, but

most current homeowners reified when rates were record lows two years ago. so few can benefit from a refinance. the trajectory for now does appear to be rates are going lower. >> and the ten-year keeps dropping, could go below he's seeing. "the exchange" is back after doisp 0.is w u13

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welcome back. stocks are near session highs, and we have some major news in the health insurance space, on the deal front, cig tcigna is sg 7% as it's in talks to merge with humana. humana popped on the news but has turned lower. this is after reports that cigma is learning to share its business. the market caps would be in the range of $140 billion, could raise some eyebrows at the ftc. coming up, salesforce having its best year in over a decade as they benefit there the ai boom. but kroger and cracker barrel are down since jan 1 as deflationary concerns are rising. and let's do some show and tell where we show you a chart. shares of gm are surging after a $10 billion stock buyback was announced, boosting its dividend and reinstated full-year

guidance after the conclusion of the uaw strike. shares are up 10%. the ceo telling "squawk on the street" she is focused on the road ahead. >> there was a lot of challenges this year with labor negotiations, et cetera. those are behind us now. that's what gives us confidence in the business, confidence to do the asr at a $10 billion level. we're going to move forward and execute, and, again, move past these bumps in the road in the areas of autonomous and electrification. do you consider climate risk? changing weather patterns are impacting the way we live and the value of businesses large and small. this can mean disruption to supply chains, changing demand for products and shifting regulation. what does this mean for your business, your clients, and your investments? ice offers data and markets that can provide critical insight. manage your climate risk with ice.

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welcome back. earning season rolls on, and we're looking ahead to results from salesforce, kroger and cracker barrel in today's earnings ex-change. our trader today is here. great to have you, quint. salesforce, shares are up 70% and on pace for a fifth strike week of gains. it's expensive, you say, but you're still a buyer? >> yeah, kelly. first of all, thanks for having me.

great to be back. analysts want that. i think investors want that. what that is, is that top line growth. so, you know, it's not a cheap stock. it's trading 24 times forward, eps projections are for a growth rate of 16%. the whisper number today is $2.12 on about $8.7 billion in revenue. but make no mistake, what we want to do is see a blowout of that revenue number, and we want to hear that it's coming from basically their ai suite of products, their cloud base, their ai chat. those sort of tactics, we want to see that pay off. if we get that, i think the investors will certainly take the shares higher. but bennyhof has done a great job of cutting costs, so i anticipate we'll see a strong bottom in the eps number. so i think that has an opportunity to head back to

all-time highs here. >> the forward multiple is only around 26, so i've seen worse. i feel the ghost of munger stalking me as i say that, but it's not incredibly overvalued. mark benioff will join jim cramer tonight on "mad money." kroger, shares hit a two-year low a couple weeks ago. evercourse talking about consumer strength, food prices, maybe some progress in albertson's could result in 25% to 35% earnings appreciation, but why has this been such a tough stock? what would you do with it? >> this is a traditionally very low margin business. when you see input prices increase like we have over the last several years, profits are squeezed and it's hard to pay out a high multiple for something like this. this is not normally a stock that we would be attracted to. but i am attracted to this stock, and make no mistake, it's

also because i have three growing teenage boys in the house and we're at kroger almost every day. so it's nice to own what you spend money on. but nonetheless, whisper number here, 94 cents. it's still not cheap, trading in low single digit growth. but our view here is, as we see inflationary pressures and input prices come down, i don't think that will translate to lower grocery prices, which means we should see margin expansion. we could ultimately see profits increase. that would be a new cycle for a company like this. also, make no mistake, i think we're going to hear good things about the generic brands, specifically simple truth. as consumers change their buying habits, i think we're going to see a lot of movement there, which also has higher margins. and kroger is also a data company. i mean, they have 8451 in

cincinnati. they're doing a lot of incredible things on analytics, which will i think boost profits in the future. >> i haven't heard this much enth enthusiasm. how many gallons are you going through a week? >> a lot. lots of meat and milk. >> cracker barrel is up 12% in november but down about 20% this year. ubs is watching consumer traffic. they're saying the chain's loyalty program and promotions might be necessary to keep tables full during a downturn. you a buyer of this one? >> i'm not. but i'm going to tell you, i don't think anybody from wall street is going to a cracker barrel. if they were, they would see they're crapacked. i'm in central kentucky and they're always packed.

but this is a company that is in some trouble here. their debt-to-equity ratio is quite high. very heavy debt hold and only $25 million in cash. they're paying out 95% of their earnings in dividend. this is a dividend trap, a value trap in our opinion, and any strength here, especially the last little movement we have seen, i would use as an opportunity to sell this name. i would not be in cracker barrel here. >> i didn't know it was almost 7% on that dividend yield. so note of caution. equi we'll leave it there. >> great biscuits they have for sure. >> and my grandparents just brought back some toys from there. still ahead, nvidia is by far the outperformer this year, more than tripled amid all the ai hype. can the fundamentals justify the

share move? according to ceo jensen haung, they absolutely can. we'll tell you what he said outhfuref mpin abt e tu ocoutg, next. - it's payback time. all these years you've worked hard, you fixed it, you looked after it. maybe, it's time for your home to start taking care of you. - [narrator] if you're 62 or older and own your home, a reverse mortgage can put more money in your pocket by eliminating your monthly mortgage payments, paying off higher-interest credit cards, and covering medical costs. - you paid down the mortgage, invested in your home. i guess you could say your home owes you. - just eliminating the mortgage payment, freed up a lot of cash for us. - the fact that we're still in this home means so much.

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nvidia's ceo jensen haung speaking at the deal book summit today. just the latest in a slew of high profile appearances he's made in recent weeks, including in all the big tech cloud conferences, and he's pounding the table about the new era of computing that he says is just starting. diedra bosa joins us now for today's "tech check." >> kelly, jensen haung is the most in demand, most popular figure in tech this year. the only other person that comes close is sam altman. but haung has been to washington to speak to lawmakers. he's been to taiwan to meet suppliers and been on stage at every major mega cap cloud and ai keynote. here he is in new york today.

>> you can't solve this new wave doing computing by just designing a chip. every aspect of the computer has fundamentally changed. so everything from networking to the switching to the way that computers are designed to the chips themself, all the software, the methodology that pulls it all together, it's a big deal, because it's complete reinvention of the computer industry. now we have $1 trillion worth of data centers in the world. all of that will be retooled. that's the amazing thing. we're in the beginning of a brand new generation of computing. it hasn't been reinvented in 60 years. this is why it's such a big deal. it's hard for people to wrap their head around it, but that's the great observation we made. it includes a chip, but it's not about that chip. >> nvidia is known for its chips, but it's the whole ecosystem that nvidia has created that made it so dominant in ai.

as ben thompson put it this morning, he who queues the gpus controls the universe. that explains his appearance at amazon yesterday. that's the first time he's been at that event. kelly, it came amid speculation of growing friction between the two companies. amazon has been pushing its own ai chips and nvidia is offering cloud computing services of its own. but for now, they still very much need each other, and the bottom line here is that the generative ai arms race is creating new competition and alliances all across tech. we're still not sure how it will shake out. >> i'm curious what he needs by this line that data centers need to be rebuilt, computing needs to be totally different. >> he is referring basically to the compute pow theyer that is d to build these generative ai models. it is very expensive, so a lot of companies need the infrastructure that the hyperscalers provide. that's amazon, microsoft and google, their cloud unit.

they need to update all of that infrastructure, which means billions and billions of dollars in extra cap, which they have either done or are embarking on now. many of them, all of them actually, need nvidia gpus. what was interesting about yesterday is that while amazon sort of trotted out jensen wrong and nvidia's chip saying it's going to access to the latest generation, right after jensen wong left that stage, they introduced their own chips -- not introduced, spoke about their own chips that are supposed to be as capable as nvidia's, an alternative to those gpus that are so hard to find right now. amazon is saying, look, we've got lots of them and we'll use them in our cloud infrastructure. >> i can't wait to see how this shakes out. it's nice to hear his take on the change. thanks for bringing that to us. the yield curve remains inverted, but the spread between twos and tens has flattened.

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welcome back to the exchange. while it's been another rough year for muni bonds, some investors are sensing opportunities. they posted their first week of inflows after 11 straight weeks of outflows. joining me now to discuss is jennifer johnston. welcome. top level, what's going on in muni bond land these days? >> thanks for having me. we've seen a lot of money on the sidelines right now. a lot of people have been trying to take advantage of high money market instrument rates. those types of things. but we really think now is the time to get into munis. there's several compelling reasons. the first one is that, you know,

we've seen spreads tighten. however, spreads are still above where they were before the 2022 sell-off. so there's still a lot of opportunities for additional tightening. second, we think that with the tax equivalent yield, which takes into account the advantage of the tax exemption, you're seeing yields on tax exempt -- taxable equivalent yields 80 basis points above corporate ig, 200 basis points above treasury. now is the time to get into the market and take advantage of that. >> what is the deal with the flattening yield curve being a help here. >> when it inverts, we don't always see a flattening on the muni side. but we have this side. that's going to be the trick to get everybody back into the muni market is when we start to see a more flat yield curve. >> why is that?

>> well, i think it's just keeping in competition with the volatility around kind of what the fed was going to be doing with rates. people are worried and felt that we were going to see rates rise on the short-term side. that's pushed up rates on the early part of the curve. >> we talked about health care, multifamily, mass transit. these are areas for people who are poking around, maybe they should looking here. >> well, i think that -- right now credit quality is pretty stable in the sector as a whole. we have been watching health care in particular. there have been some challenges on the fundamental side because of the cost of employing contract nurses to keep up with demands. we've seen some of that come back a little bit and operating margins are starting to stabilize to improve. there's still a ways to go, but we're starting to see some stabilization in that sector. and then on the mass transit side, no -- you know, everybody has heard the issues with return to office and the fact that this

is hampered on transit and we've always felt that this -- what was going to get transit back on track was a combination of, you know, differences in, you know, scheduling, probably fair box increases or increases in your ticket and then support from state and local governments. and this past budget cycle, we've seen some of the largest states provide aid to some of these mass transit systems. it's not over. they've still got some other work to do. but we're starting to see that support we've been looking for. >> all right. people are sniffing around, looking for opportunity. jennifer, thanks so much. we appreciate it today. >> thank you, kelly. and that does it for us. it looks stocks are right around session highs. next on power lunch with two weeks until the last fed decision of the year. dom chu isetng gti ready. i'll join you on the other side of this break.

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welcome to "power lunch." i'm dominic chu. today we are remembering charlie mungar, warren buffett's partner. we'll look at some of his best wisdom and everything he meant to wall street. also mark cuban making major moves, quitting his job, so to speak, selling his team. he's going to spend more time with his family. but he may also have bigger plans as well. >> interesting. looking forward to that. let's check the markets. dow is up 134 and it's leading the way today. the s&p is up ten points for a quarter percent gain, but still up 19. shares of general motors are poppin