i'm sorry for my family. i'm sorry for his family. [theme music] ♪ welcome to "street signs." i'm dparabile gumede in london. we have steve in italy. these are your headlines. futures point to further selling stateside ahead of a pivotal u.s. labor market report. 25 or 50. that is the question as traders

place bets on the fed's next rate cut. the nobel laureate joseph stiglitz sells cnbc his mind is set regardless of today's payroll print. >> i would vote for a bigger rate cut because i think they went too far and it would actually help on the issue of inflation and on jobs. opec plus produces delay plans to hike production by two months as pricesslump to the lowest level this year. and donald trump places lower regulation for elon musk saying the economy will be key in november's election. >> that's really trump's central message. are you better off today four years ago? if you ask that question to vo voters today, the answer is no,

especially in many swing states. all right. off to a lower day yesterday, the market across europe has managed to go down again today. one 3-third of the percent. yesterday, utilities managed to rise 1.6%. the broadening out of the market that we're perhaps looking toward overall. it is all about the data and the data stateside is the one the market focuses on significantly. you saw the adp numbers yesterday. 99,000 handle on the print yesterday. the first time that happened since at least 2021. that is a significant push down on that figure. does it show disparaging or differing figure for the u.s. economy with regards to weakness? we'll find out again. the non-farm payroll data is very important. that is the new buzz word for the fed as well. they are focusing on the deal

mandate and the second part being risky with the jobs numbers critical. 4.2% of the jobs numbers. the european market down .3%. .50% weaker for the smi. you are seeing .50% down for the dax. it was record territory a week ago and now taking a dip off the back with 86 points lower below the 8,6,000 mark. ftse 100 is .13% weaker. healthcare sdox didstocks did f 1.4%. you see key movements coming from the oil and gas sector

going down 1%. remember the price of oil then is sitting still around the $70 a barrel for wti. $74 a barrel for brent crude. the drawdowns have meant the oil and gas shares have taken a dip. basic resources following on from that oil and gas print that we've also been talking about. key margins moving lower with the insurance .75% lower this morning. on to the u.s. futures picture then, this is going to be key. we are going to be looking at the movement off the back of the labor numbers. what exactly happens with npf? in you want to look at the market and what should happen with the fed, whether it should be 25 or whether it should be 50, and you are looking for clarity, steve, it doesn't seem like we've gotten a lot of that. joseph stiglitz saying a larger

cut may indeed be necessary. some reckoning steady as she goes is the mantra. >> look, maybe i've been around too long, but the fed is a blunt tool whether you say 25 or 50. i can't help but think we are losing sudbtilty. every viewer knows there are ways to cut and ways to hike. one thing you can do is create a stunningly dovish cut or a hawkish cut. you can say one and done if you really want to upset the markets. they're not going to do that. it's disingenuous to say because jay powell can indicate this is a start of the accelerated process of rate cuts and only go 25 and do exactly the same as he would intend to do if he went more extreme and went 50 as well. the market knows that as well. that said, there are strident

views out there what they should do with the fed funds rates. a lot of people price off the 30 with the mortgage or ten-year treasury. it is not just the fed fund rate we need to look at with the cost of finance in the united states. that said, i did speak with the economists and nobel laureate joseph stiglitz here in the forum. i asked whether the fed has fallen behind the curve. very interesting about why he thinks perhaps the fed is c creating more inflation with its policies than they like to do. listen in. >> i've been criticizing the fed for going too far too fast. really important for it to have normalized interest rates. zero interest rate is not the cost of capital and that was a mistake probably to have it that

low that long since 2008, but then they went beyond that to where the interest rates have been and i thought that put the economy at risk for very little benefit and probably actually worsening inflation, ironically, because if you looked at the source of inflation, the big component was housing. if you think about how do we deal with the problem of a housing shortage which is increasing the price of inflation, do you think raising interest rates, making it more difficult for real estate developers to build more houses and homeowners to buy more houses is going to solve the housing shortage? no, it's going in exactly the wrong way. so, i believe that they have

contributed to the problem of inflation. now, even though their models don't work this way and they're not looking at things as deeply as they should, they're models tell them look at the weaknesses in the economy and therefore, we should be lowering interest rates. so, i would vote for a bigger rate cut because i think they went too far and it would actually help on the issue of inflation and on jobs. >> so, on the 17th and 18th of september, regardless of the payroll figure later on friday, you think 50 basis points should be on the table? >> yes. >> joe stiglitz said there. i'll also be speaking to economic leaders about europe's macro outlook. this as the bloc battles trade tension and sticky inflation.

>> we've seen a lot of progress with inflation. particular, if you look at eastern europe, this inflation process has been very fast by historical standards, but the situation remains challenging. we are still feeling the fallout from the war, in particular, energy prices in europe remain high. gas prices are four times as high as in the u.s. that is eroding european competitiveness. we must remember eastern europe is much more heavily dependent on manufacturing with the countries of the same level of income. >> the ex-poports are used by t chinese manufactures with goods like cars and things we didn't expect. on the incoming side, we have a barrage of goods coming in and the other side we see things

getting tougher. i expect in the u.s. more trade restrictions after the election. from the economic model, we're stressed. you add on top of that energy prices still too high compared to pre-covid and you've got the crisis. volkswagen is just a warning signal that the economic model is extremely under stress. >> well, as promised, a lot of our guests this morning are tackling really big issues from ukraine to chinea to the u.s. ad federal reserve. also, we had conversations about the european economy and what it needs to do to galvanize itself. europe really, really needs to find a new competitive position and reendorse a single market 2.0. all of this is being done, of course, at the back drop of the key economic data in the states which you will talk about, but

the u.s. election coming up. i wanted to flag up a couple of things. one, donald trump made an important intervention last night talking about the economy and making huge differential about what he is offering and what, indeed kamala harris is offering up. i want to key up the interview coming up. the republican congress member representing south carolina. fascinating to get his view. he is a big supporter of donald trump. it is interesting to get the economic argument and what is going on economically. we will do that on this show in 20 minutes time. arabile. >> steve, thank you for that. we are looking forward to all of that. we will have further conversations around the economic picture stateside. let's go straight into that. traders are bracing for a key data release ahead of the fmoc meeting with august non-farm payroll data due to cross the wires at 14:30 cet. four hours or so to go to that

data. markets are pencilling in an uptick of 160,000. a slight decline of the unemployment rate of 4.2%. that's according to dow jones estimate. that is increase of almost 50,000 then on the july print, of course, which came out at 114, but recent data pointing to a faltering labor market and commentary to that effect from fed officials has caused doubt on whether we will see an increase on that scale. on thursday, the adp report notched the smallest gain in three and a half years. 99,000. initial jobless claims down slightly on july's figures. well, if you want to find anymore confusing data points, there they are for you. we laid out the circumstances. let's unpack the thoughts on this with our chief economist and strategist for europe at

jeffries. thank you for the time. you heard everything from steve's conversation there with joseph stiglitz and his own thoughts as well. there's so much to unpack. let's start off with what the fed does depending on today's data. is it about a strong print? means they get 25 or a weaker print and they go 50? >> i think the model for 50 is still very high because from the fed perspective, time is on their side. so, my base indicate is we get 4.2% unemployment rate. between the unemployment rate and nfp, i august the fed looks more at unemployment rate. if you get 4.2% unplemployment rate, you plot a 20-year chart. there is no need to deliver a 50 basis point cut. if they come out as we expect, we are looking at 25. >> the worry would not just be about now, but the impact of what these cuts or the higher

interest rate environment does at a later stage, so keeping it restrictive, you push on and it hurts more to the economy. >> i fully agree with you. so, when we have the fed meeting, which is in a couple weeks time, i think the message from the fed if they deliver 25, the message is we don't want to be there restrictive anymore. we are at 5.5. what kneutral is? we have about 3.5%. it is about the pace of eight cuts. that prediction is clear. the pace of cuts matters. >> that communication is very important as well. if they make -- if fed chair jay powell speaks out and says, you know what, what we're looking to do here is we're going to start this and not look to be restrictive as you pointed forward, but we're trying to make a consistent effort now at

ensuring the restrictiveness in our policy aids the economy a lot more than the economy. has that actually been a message they have been able to deliver yet or is this the pivotal moment in two weeks' time? >> i think it will be pivotal in two weeks time. the fed has two mandates. they have employment and they have inflation. we have been fighting inflation. now we focus to employment. it's not very easy. the fed has been struggling with it. the street has been struggling with it. if they're able to communicate this message that the economy is slowing down a little, not a disaster, we are not looking at a hard recession and we are looking to cut rates. markets like it because the fed is seen as proactive rather than being behind the curve. >> 50-basis point cuts haven't happen, especially over the last two decades as well. if they were to do that, especially maybe not in this cutting this month, but if they

were to do that, the day after the election, i know they're going to say that doesn't come up to them, but surely it sends a few question marks to the market especially then with the economic conversations already been had by donald trump versus kamala harris. >> i think it sends a poor signal to the market that the fed knows something we don't. if you do 50, like you said, it hasn't happened very often. it is an emergency measure. it is seen as a measure that things are going very bad. for the fed to deliver a 50 is the wrong signal to the market. to my view, i think 25 is much better. the other aspect which you pointed out and we were discussing earlier as well, is they don't know what the fiscal picture is going to look like under the new president. who the president is almost 50/50. we have tax cuts and corporate tax cuts, that could be inflationary. the fed doesn't know it.

we don't know it. they have to be patient and make room for it. >> it is interesting. a quick word on europe. usually, they say when the u.s. catches a cold, the rest of the world catches that cold as well. what happens from here if the u.s. starts that cutting cycle? you get this weak nfp today, if that is the case, what happens to markets you think stateside and what happens in europe as well? >> from the market perspective, we are in the situation where bad news is bad news. if you get a poor data, markets don't like it. equity rates rally. europe, i don't think changes much. i think the ecb will likely cut 25 basis points next week. when i think about ecb, it's almost on a set path. very likely we get 25 basis points in september and another 25 in december and we are slowly moving to the neutral path. the various built is in the u.s. right now. >> mohit, that's all we have

time for. thank you so much for coming in, especially on a friday as well. a pivotal friday will be. thank you for the time. mohit, the chief economist and strategist for europe at e jeffries. coming up, we'll dive into the material that could boost the green transition and it has been a bellwether for inflation a few years ago. is that still the case? let's unpack next. you're here o win. lucky for you,here o shopify built the best converting checkout on the planet. like the just one-tapping, ridiculously fast-acting, sky-high sales stacking champion of checkouts. that's the good stuff right there. so if your business is in it to win it, win with shopify.

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welcome back. now timber demand is expected to rise 3% a year over the next 30 years in the green role transition according to gresham house. let's unpack this more in the use cases here for some have questions which may no longer be asked in house building or other raw materials that are being used as well. it is not just paper manufacturing. massimo is the ceo of upm.

massimo, thank you very much for the time. as upm, what is it that you guys actually do precisely to give an outline and viewers a sense of it? you have also been in a transformative state. what are your growth areas right now? >> very good. actually, we do many different things. there is a good probability that everyone has in his own house a fair amount of products from upm without knowing it. a book or magazine or newspaper, it is most likely printed on upm paper. if you have the products in the fridge or if you have wine in the cellsell cellar, there is a probability you have a label from upm. we are present in many your areas. if you drive a car somewhere in europe, there is a probability

to use us with bio-fuel we produce. upm, the name stands for united paper mills. >> the paper is no longer the main aim here. judging by what you just told me, the portfolio of goods now changed. i don't want to use this, but almost your kodak moment. you needed to be about the other aspects. i'm interested with the bio-fuel segment. is that a growing segment for you considering the energy needs that the rest of the world is going through and how much can you ultimately distribute? >> completely. that is one of the big growth engines we have identified and invested upon.formation that led us from the biggest global producer of paper to what we are today. a company with a very diversified product portfolio where what we call decarbonization solutions play a critical role.

we call the decarbonization solutions like bio-fuels. these are products that don't come from fossil fuels, but come from renewable, sustainable feed stock. for example, with the bio-fuels we are producing right now, using wood residues which would be kind of a side industry of waste. we are turning it into a valuable resource to produce fuels to replace fuels made out of fossil sources and a big reduction of the co2 footprint. >> i ask in the case of mining, you have the mine itself and in the tailings is where you find the other chemicals and other elements. you laid out the next five years as the next strategic growth point for the company as you are

looking to grow. is that where you consider the waste or tailings of your business? >> absolutely. we are identifying these decarbonization solutions as a big area for growth. we have made investments, significant ones, we have one turning into another part of the space which is what we call bio-chemicals. same concept with the residues to turn into chemicals to make its way through the variety of products from textiles to sportswear to packaging to automotive value chain and so forth. always with this concept of replacing heavy co2 footprint products. >> i want to ask about cap ex quickly because you have to tinszinnovate.

talk about the timeline. >> we put in the last five years in excess of 5 billion euro of investment into making this transformation which i thought about 3.5 being the investment into one of the most modern and largest mills in uruguay. 1.2 billion in the bio-refinery in germany. we are into the engineering phase of the potential investment to expand our capacity of production of bio-fuels in rotterdam. >> and this is a big production? >> we are producing in germany and production is nedue to star at the end of the year. we are pretty excited about the capital movement. >> really interesting though.

massimo, please come back. we would love to have you on the show again. i think one thing is for sure. it's perhaps an untapped or conversation we don't have necessarily too much in this sp space. you are in london for the capital markets day. massimo, the ceo of upm. coming up on the show, we cross back over to the forum where steve will be speaking to republican congress member william timmons after the break.

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welcome to "street signs." i'm arabile gumede and these are your headlines. european equities slipping while u.s. futures point to further selling stateside all ahead of the pivotal u.s. labor market report. 25 or 50? uncertainty looming as traders place bets on the fed's next rate cut. nobel laureate joseph stiglitz tells cnbc his mind is set

regardless of today's payroll print. >> i would vote for a bigger rate cut because i think they went too far and it would actually help on the issue of inflation and on jobs. opec plus produces delay plans to hike oil production by two months as crude prices slump to the lowest levels this year. although, you can tell prices are inching a little bit higher this morning. and donald trump pledges looser regulation and tax cuts and government efficiency role for x owner elon musk. the economy will be key in november's election. >> that's really trump's central message. are you better off today than four years ago which was the ronald reagan question? if you answer for many of them, the answer is no especially in many swing states.

negative sentiment seems to be the key phrase to be pointed out today ahead of the non-farm payroll data. yesterday, we saw the adp numbers come out. private payrolls. 99,000. the first time we have done that since 2021. giving you a clear sense of now negative that is if the non-farm payroll is weaker than the market anticipated. the market looking at 114 earlier in july. european markets ahead of that headed lower across the board. .50% weaker across the dax then as well. on to just the forex market. the dollar is one to really look out for here. for now, you are seeing just a little bit of mixed trading for the dollar. dollar index is one to look out for with a one-month low versus

the yen. a weak trough on the euro today for the dollar. 111.16 is where we are there. it comes from a mixed signal with the jobs report. sterling is little changed so far. sticking close to the highest since august 30th. 131.71 as well at this stage. on to european yields and treasuries. this is a significant picture on the back of what happens later on today. treasury yields dropped sharply yesterday amid the disappointing adp report which hinted, of course, at bigger rate cuts. 50 basis points coming back into the fray. so much so, that traders are eyeing a 41% chance of hefty 50-basis point cuts at the up coming meeting in two weeks time. the remaining 59% chance is for a 25-basis point cut. of course, more cuts anticipated in 2025. that is significant to look at.

a drawdown on some of those yields. u.s. futures again with the nfp all important. to give you a sense, all three majors are down for the shortened week. the s&p is down this week. nasdaq closing at 3.3%. dow jones, despite the rotation we keep speaking about, it down nearly 2% so far this week as well. all right. so much happens in the world and we focus so much on the fed, steve, but it's going to be about those economic issues as well at play as we head to the november election stateside. this really could shift a lot of the spending and economic fortunes of the u.s. steve. >> reporter: look, it's not just about the united states. let's be brutally honest. what happens in the u.s., presidential election, dictates

relations with europe and relation was china and the strategy in the middle east. there is so much going on as well. the republican presidential candidate donald trump interesting to hear him talk about the economics. he set out a lot of his plans to lower taxes and regulations and boost energy production which, he says, will lift growth and tackle inflation. speaking at the economic club of new york, mr. trump back plans for a government efficiency commission, who do you think is led by? elon musk. does he have time? that will be led by the x ceo elon musk that he says will recommend drastic reforms. well, we've been speaking to a lot of people here at the forum getting their take on how the election is unfolding stateside.

>> we've never had an election where one of the candidates has said openly you won't have to worry about elections after this election if i get elected. it's a person who has already demonstrated that he's not -- he's not committed to the rule of law. this is a deeply flawed personality, but one who is committed in many ways to upsetting our democracy. >> in the initial weeks of our campaign, there was no content, no substance whatsoever. it was vibes and quote joy. why does this seem familiar? oh, yeah. it's the barbie movie from last summer. on the other side, you have donald trump who's interview with elon musk from the summer,

was dark. my calculation is it is barbenheimer. do you want joy and vibes or face the fact that the united states is in a dire geopolitical situation? >> reporter: right. well, one thing i can say is as we mentioned before that string of thoughts is the fact that geopolitics will change potentially on the back of the election. with that in mind, zelenskyy is at the various parties over ukraine. actually, i can tell viewers that volodymyr zelenskyy will be here this evening speaking to the forum as well. mr. zelenskyy saying this morning that we are suffering from a shortage of missiles and we need long-range capability.

we need a stronger fleet of air systems. more weapons to drive russia off ukrainian land according to zelenskyy. we are expecting a similar message here this afternoon. in advance of that, i'm delighted to welcome to the set william timmons, who is the representative from south carolina. welcome. i want to talk about various things. in your views, i'm interested of the war in europe which has been supported or ukraine has been fully supported by the biden administration as well. how do you feel about those kind of comments from mr. zelenskyy and elongation of this war? >> i think it is important why this happened. the manner in which joe biden withdrew from afghanistan signalled weakness. we have done our part to help,

but we haven't shown the strength necessary to deter it. what's going to happen in november, hopefully, is trump will win and he will signal to russia that russia has to go back to the lines before they invaded two years ago. i think that the only thing will solve this is not missiles and not money. it is strength. the only person that is running for president in the united states right now that is strong is donald trump. >> but donald trump said he can finish this war within a very short period. >> one phone call. >> is that feasible? i take on board what you are saying about the withdraw from afghanistan. the truth of the matter is, congress member, this has been going on for ten years since crimea and donbas. this precedes president biden by a long way. >> goes back to his predecessor,

obama, who is arguably still running the country. he allowed them to take crimea and nothing happened. i promise you, the first thing donald trump will do is go back to the lines that existed before he left office. that will happen. not only that, but the hostages will be released from gaza. i can promise you that president trump will not tolerate. he will threaten. those tlhreats are hollow under biden who is not 100%. they sing true under president donald trump. >> those lines in the rest of ukraine involve ukraine giving up some overeign territory. regions like kharkiev and d donbas. >> i assume trump well say they

are the lines where i left office. >> one won certifconversation. that involves a sovereign nation. that is fis quite a message. the lines that were there were not great, but given to the nation that invaded. >> the end of war. they can go back to the status quo that existed when donald trump left office. i think that is the conversation they will have first. >> no nation on the planet should aggressively take a piece of the land and fortify a piece of the land because allies want a frozen conflict. >> i think it is reasonable for president trump to say the day i left office is the new status quo. if you don't like it, you will have a very difficult time ahead of you. >> congress member, follow-up on gaza and the conflict the middle

east. the trump administration did make huge efforts to try to broker some peace deal with other partners in the region. honest, failed to find a peaceful solution as well. what gives you hope that conflict in the middle east can actually be ended this time around if there is a trump presidency? >> you just need to appreciate the democratic national convention two weeks ago, the parents of the hostage, american hostage in gaza, held in hamas, pleaded for the end to hostil hostilities and that hostage was murdered last week. americans killed by terrorist groups is not something president trump will tolerate. president biden becarely said anything no less done anything. the criticisms of vice president harris of netanyahu and the position is not tenable. i think this is another issue on

the ballot in november. u.s. weakness causes massive challenges for american citizens. it actually causes huge problems for the world. our weakness began when joe biden took office. it culminated when 13 service members died. the world has suffered because of our weakness. we need to have a president that is respected in the global community and that is what we're going to get in november. >> do you believe allies in italy and throughout the nato organization and other allies globally will feel that actually a trump administration has got their back and believes in geopolitical alliances? a lot of people last time around felt strongly that president trump was trying to turn his back on nato and turn his back on some of the traditional alliances? >> i don't think that's accurate. people portrayed it as that, but it is not accurate.

he said you have to pay your fair share. if you are not following the agreement, why should we? >> now most nations are paying 2%. now he is moving the goal line to 3%. >> that's what he does. at the iend of the day, our alliances with the other nations are critical. he knows that. he will always talk in a certain way to get a reaction, but western democracies and western values are aligned. authoritative forces are joining and there is, indeed, a clash. we need to work together to hold russia and china accountable because they're not playing by the same rules. >> congress member, we have a limited amount of time and i appreciate your conversations about the geopolitics and alliances as well.

o 60% blanket tariffs, does that make sense for the american consumer that relies in large part, on the vast import from china? that will makethe cost of living crisis untenable for many in america. >> it is is either stand up to trading partner not playing by the rules or suffer a slow death. yes, we need to hold china accountable. they cannot cheat or steal intellectual property. that is a certain death. we have to hold them abi accountable. europe needs to stand up as well saying we appreciate your incredible wealth and people and geography. you can't subsidize your businesses. when a government subsidizes a business, a free market fails.

they cannot continue to tolerate that. it is a guaranteed loss. we will lose to them if we allow the chinese government to subsidize the economy. we have to stabnd up to them. that is what we are doing here at the 50th anniversary of the forum. >> look ourks t, there's a lot republican voices here. are they aligned with europe? we know mr. trump says a lot of things. a lot of politicians say a lot of things. he says europe is a foe and he says many ways they are as bad as china. most republicans i speak to don't believe that as well. does that mean europe should fear a trump presidency? >> absolutely not. the world should welcome a trump presidency. again, the chaos whether in ukraine or israel or in the global economy, the policies coming from the biden

administration have hurt billions of people in the world whether it is inflation from spending $7 trillion we didn't have or the instability with the weakness. the world benefits when the united states is strong. it's not because we're going to take advantage, but because there's going to be peace and economic stability. these are all the things the world should welcome. i think when president trump speaks about europe as a foe, he is probably speaking of social values and progressive nature of many european governments and european leaders. again, there's the values that are causing huge problems. the problems we see is because of government regulation. >> i have to come back to you, sir. suff u.s. produces more oil and gas than it has ever done in history. >> we were energy independent under president trump. president biden came in and ended multiple permits. he made it harder to drill.

end of fracking. >> they told me to wrap. one more time. one of the most senior oil men in u.s. oil turned to me and said we have a great relationship with the biden administration. we had clarity from them. to be honest, we had chaos from the previous administration. >> the chaos was because we were sprinting to energy exporters and harnessing our natural resources. the biden administration puts the environmental regulations ahead of energy independence and ahead of lowering prices for american citizens. that's something that trump has a better balance. >> he said halve the prices soon. congress member, a real pleasure. thank you for joining us -- not a lovely day. congress member william timmons from south carolina. back to you in the studio, arabile. >> thank you, steve.

coming up on the show, we will speak to canary wolfe chairman saying the uk needs 1 trillion pounds of investment in the next coming years. that conversation is coming up next.

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welcome back. now opec plus members delayed plans to hike production in october and november after crude prices hit the lowest level in nine months. at the same time, british needs fresh investment in the next ten years to deliver the target growth rates according to the new report according to the capital markets industry. nigel wilson of canary wharf group joins us. where in the world does 100 million over ten years or each year, basically, going to come from, equating to this $1 trillion investment? >> it is straight forward. we have 6 trillion pounds of long-term capital in the uk.

a huge is invested in cash and gilts. we've got 300 billion in cash in the uk. that is non-growth capital. in that mix of 6 trillion, a huge amount is non-growth with the policy. we read a lot about the pension funds at 52% and now 3% equity in the portfolio. very different from america. we have all of the many, but we need to reallocate it. that is the job of the capital markets working in partnership with the government apparent businesses to really drive economic growth in the uk because we haven't had any in 50 years now. >> some say that credit ates a risk-on environment. >> the theory of risk is based on one-year variance. it is really about where's the

north star? where do you want to get to? we will have to spend 100 billion pounds. we have 70% of the gdp represented by investment. in the g7, it is 25%. we are at the bottom of the table. in 191986, uk won one gold meda in atlanta. >> didn't do much. >> we put a lot of money behind it and invested in athletes. a few years later, we were second and third in the medals table behind the nation called america. we got 27 and 65 medals in total because we invested in growth. we have 20 years of catch up. we under invested in water and housing and energy and vc. we've got the money. >> it's that race to gold,

ultimately, that you're pointing toward here. the labour government said they left us with trouble. we are looking to build houses and significant set of houses for the next couple years. is that beginning to tick the needle? is that what you are looking for here? >> there's more to come in all of this stuff. i used to visit a town like man chester, we would say we will build housing and invest in renewable energy. invested 30 billion alone from my ex-firm. nobody ever said no. nobody said we don't want this investment. we need this investment. there has been so much underinvestment. >> if yyou look at tax breaks ad how it is used, why is that not seen as a solution?

what is happening? >> we've always had a housing target of 300,000. the last time we achieved it was 1969 when i was a child. >> is that investment based? >> investment based and planning based. planning, policy and regulation. we are seeing in the financial services a change in attitude. we have had an amazing time in changing the listing rules in the uk and recognizing we've got an amazing capital market here, but we're falling way behind the americans. that's the problem. the americans are doing so much better than we are. >> nigel, please can you come back? >> yeah. >> let's have a longer chat. >> delighted to do so. >> anngel wilson of canary whar. "worldwide exchange" is next. my name is arabile gumede.

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it is 5:00 a.m. here at cnbc global headquarters. welcome to "worldwide exchange." here is your "five@5." broadkrocom the latest vict of the pressure. selling more shares. berkshire hathaway snaps a win streak and looks to sell