now. good morning. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. we are live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. and here we go this week. if you want to check out how things are shaping up so far, you have some pretty strong advances to the upside. dow futures up 230. the nasdaq is up 165. it comes after a very rough first week of september. the s&p 500 was down more than 4% last week. that weaker jobs report on friday didn't help matters. a quick statistic for you. the s&p 500 has had an average decline of 1.2% in september

going back to 1928. the dow finished down 3%. it was its worst week since march of last week. the market was down by 5.75% last week. the worst week since january of 2022. that decline was led by the big tech names. nvidia down 12%. overnight in asia, the nikkei fell 3% before coming back. right now in europe, you will see at this point, it looks like there are green arrows there as well. up anywhere from .7% to close to 1% in italy. if you check out the treasury yields, since january of 2022, on friday, you had the uninversion between the ten-year and two-year. 3.757. the two-year at 3.70. the first time the spread between those two closed with the ten-year above it since back to 2022.

joe, probably not coincidence it was the same since the nasdaq has seen its worst week since january of 2022. you saw the numbers on friday and now the expectation that the fed is really going to get under way. >> an important week, definitely, and important morning. a nice bounce after last week. >> yeah. >> one of those that looked midday and you say what happened. >> nervousness. >> you know what next month is? >> october. >> yeah. that's all. >> october has been a scary month before. meantime, we have a very busy week on the markets. the market will have two inflation reports to digest and the last one before the fed decision on september 18th. wednesday, the consumer price index released and the producer price index. the jobs numbers are thursday which is more important as the fed considers how deep to cut

interest rates. a 25 point or 50 point debate. that will keep us busy right up until that day. treasury secretary janet yellen says the economy remains strong despite a string of weak job reports that rattled investors. yellen was speaking over the weekend and said in her words we're not seeing meaningful layoffs. yellen said job growth is slowed compared to the frenzy when the u.s. reopened after the covid-19 pandemic. the economy is deep into a recovery and basically operating at full employment. >> she made the point that 4%, anytime you see a 4 handle on unemployment, that's generally fairly good news. you do have questions about where we're headed from here. that's what the market is saying, too. let's get back to the politics and your money. senator bernie sanders wants a higher capital gains tax rate

that was presented by vice president kamala harris. here's what sanders said on "meet the press. >> so, do you believe 28% is enough or should she come up and boost that number. >> i would go, i would go higher than that. look, when you have three people on top owning half of everything and paying a tax rate lower than truck drivers or nurses, you can substantially raise taxes on the billionaire class and people on top. >> sanders has endorsed harris, but has different view was the party's economic platform. probably not breaking news on that front. we will talk taxes and more with senator ted cruz coming up at 8:10 a.m. eastern time. >> since it was only a three-set match, ted probably won't be that sleepy and tired. >> from the u.s. open? >> he was sitting with john

paulson. front row. >> in the front row. were you there? >> i was not. i saw him across the way. i didn't see elon musk. >> you know who he was with? >> sazlav. >> the other side? >> bobby kodek. >> i have no words. fine, it's tennis. david had a grizly old greybeard. you know what? i was in telluride and i didn't shave immediately. i was like the guy on "seinfeld." when it came back, he realized he was bald. >> was your beard gray? >> yes. it was white. it happens. >> elon had been -- >> let me ask you this -- >> i was going to say elon had

actually sat with saz at the opening ceremony in the olympics. >> were you throwing the ball -- were you that close where they were bouncing up to where your seat was? >> we were close, but not -- >> we? the fam? >> my son. >> that's good. the tickets? finals? >> let's talk about sources here. >> did you have to borrow the mo mo money? sources telling cnbc that norfolk southern's ceo alan shaw is being investigated for a workplace relationship. norfolk southern added it hired outside legal counsel to investigate the matter.

shaw did not return cnbc for comment. a lot of things. mahomes and then taylor swift was there. taylor and travis kelce. >> nobody was watching the match. >> i thought he was going to do it. matthew mcconaughey. >> ari. >> you pay him to be your friend. >> i pay him to be my friend. yes. he's okay as a friend, but for what he is paid, he could be a better friend. check out the shares of boeing. the aerospace giant reached a tentative deal avoiding a strikes which was set to happen in days. it said the tentative deal includes 25% raises over four

years and improvements to healthcare costs and retirement benefits. boeing agreed to build its next airplane in the pacific northwest. the stock is up today, but it is down more than 37% year to date. we have a couple of moves coming up for the s&p 500. palantir and dell are added to the index. this is dell's return to the index. it was taken private in 2013. going public again in 2018. palantir went public in 2020 and leaving the index is american airlines and etsy. those changes take place on monday, september 23rd. >> andrew and becky, one other major thing that happened yesterday. tom brady made his debut on fox. >> yes. >> and he has a great partner, i will say, kevin burkehart's

voice. they got rid of greg olsen, who never shut up, but was pretty good. tom is a quiet guy in general, i think. he just talk -- you know how he talks through what he does. i don't know. i don't know. i don't know how you grade the first performance. $380 million is his contract. i don't know what fox is thinking. i looked at comments and they were as you would expect. the crazy thing is jordan love hurt himself. the quarterback for the green bay packers. it's everywhere. >> that he might go back? >> everywhere that green bay needs tom brady so badly and it's not completely out of the question. >> he was very into that idea. he was very into that idea before the season satutarted.

>> i know. we know tony romo from the at&t. that guy, you sit down with him and 11 people, nobody has to do anything. >> tom brady was at the at&t last year. >> tony romo's there. not one person at the table during dinner has to say a word for two and a half hours. tony romo wants to talk. every waking thought. >> you know another guy who likes to talk? >> tom brady, tom brady spent a year working for this spot and to not -- to not go into it and do it at that point, especially when he stepped away from football for that time. i can't imagine he would jump back inasmuch as he may want to. >> it is a neat person. >> he probably will be able to. >> we'll see. his first time. his first game. >> we have a lot more ahead to talk about. we'll get him there.

a quarter point cut or half a point cut. maybe we'll ask tom brady. that is the big question for the market and the morning leading up to the fed's next meeting. that date is september 18th. we'll dive right into it. plus, we talk bitcoin and krupt with michael saylor at 6:50 a.m. iceck out the russell index whh fell 5% last week. the worst weekly beginning since the start of july and august. "squawk box" is coming right back. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by truist securities. experience, expertise, execution.

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with security and get started for $49.99 a month. plus ask how to get up to a $500 prepaid card. call today! welcome back to "squawk box." markets are briacing for the latest read on inflation. we have the global economist with us. what do you think is going to happen on september 18th? >> i think they're going to cut. 25 basis points is our call. i know there is a lot of back and forth with 25 and 50. the last jobs report was fine. it was well above 100, but below 200. they are left with the assessment of what's going on. that's where i think the spending data which has been solid will come in and they will see the economy as fine and

inflation's coming down notably. they need to start cutting. >> you don't think they look at any of the revisions that took place over the summer and say that might even mean the number we just saw is going to be revised down as well? >> i think they have to look at all of that together. i don't know the revisions over the summer will force your expectation for this revision. funny thing that august comes in low and gets revised up. there is always a lot of noise on the data. there is a extrajectory of wher it's going. >> the other question is what do you think is on the table in terms of cuts for the rest of the year? is there is the argument a bunch are coming, do you relatiip the band-aid in september? >> when there is the fmoc meeting, one of the issues has to be 50 basis points. the part of the argument is both.

if things are trending down, why not get ahead of it, but inflation is trending down. inflation is not the threat it had been before. >> it's an employment issue. >> absolutely. >> the question is you don't think the employment issue -- it's a big issue? >> i think jay powell has to corral a whole committee. he has them moving in the right direction and he has them moving for rate cuts. i don't think he has them all set to do much more dramatic cuts. >> when the rest of your firm calls you trying to figure out what they're trying to tell their clients, what are you telling them they are supposed to tell their clients about the equity market right now? >> that's the tricky part. we feel good. we think the economy is fine. we don't think we're headed for a hard landing. the tricky part, if you talk to mike wilson, people say the hard part is where the multiple should be. that is different from where the economy is going versus the sent

presid sentiment. i have to leave it to the equity specialists to leave it at multiples. >> just play out the rest of the year and the election and everything else because i want to just understand over the next 12 months, where do you think rates actually go? >> down from here very much. we have a whole string of 25 basis point cuts. i think the strategy for the fed now has to be cut rates substantially a couple of hundred points from now so we are not prestrictive. if the economy holds up, they want to be best guess of neutral. the string of cuts to put padding into the economy. >> how badly does the unemployment picture have to get? >> i think we are already seeing it softening. we were getting 300,000 to 400,000. now we are getting 100,000 to 150,000. i think it can come down from here. we feel the unemployment rate gets close to 4.5%.

over time, over the next six or nine months, it's not a crash, but a continued softening. >> seth, we will see if all this happens the way you expect it to. hope it does. hope it's soft. maybe even better than that. could be better than that. is there any optimistic version of this? >> the u.s. consumer has still held up. that is 70% of the u.s. economy. if the fed continues to cut rates and we see the housing market recover and applications are coming off the bottom, businesses are looking at a lower cost to capital, especially those with a floating rate debt. overall, they're trying to get us into the slower outcome so it is sustainable in the long run. 3% last year? that is too fast to be sustainable forever. >> thanks, seth. when we come back, the wall street journal has the tesla story that elon musk is all charged up about. we'll have details next.

check out apple shares this morning down nearly 4% last week. the company is expected to unveil its new iphone today. that stock supis up 15% year to date. "squawk box" will be right back. ! daughter: alright. dad: side to side. when you work with someone who knows a lot and cares even more... you can do this. ...you're unstoppable. (♪♪) wow... are you kidding me? you can do this. at truist, we believe the same is true for banking.

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the wall street journal reporting that elon musk's a.i. start up xai has held stocks to share the future revenue with tesla. musk is now denying that report. he said tesla would do so to help power the ev maker driver assisted software.

musk called that report not accurate on x adding there is no need to license anything from xai. coming up, anti-trust part two. the government's second trial against google begins today. we will layout the case and what's at stake for the tech giant. check out shares of bitcoin. it has been a rough two weeks or month. bouncing around the $55,000 level. it was as low as $53,000 at one point. micro strategy executive chairman michael saylor will join us at 6:50 a.m. eastern to talk about the cryptocurrency industry in general and future regulatory environment with the election fast approaching. "squawk box" is coming right back. okay, team! oh, thank you so much >> announcer: executive edge is sponsored by at&t business. next level moments need the next level network. i'm really just here for the at&t internet, it's super-fast so, any pre-launch concerns?

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good morning. welcome back to "squawk box" live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm joe kernen. we're all here. checking the futures this morning. you see 246 points of upward

momentum are indicated for the dow with the nasdaq pitching in almost 170 and the s&p 42 or so. the treasuries are holding steady. if there is some weakness in the labor market, we're doing okay as far as the ten-year at 3.75 this morning. we were scared in july below that in yield. crude, you would have to say, is giving some signals either about libyan supply or china growth. something. we are ensconced. look at shares of alphabet. the second anti-trust trial against google beginnings this time this morning. this time we get to eamon javers who joins us with more on the big case. good morning. >> reporter: good morning, guys.

google was in federal court on friday and they're going to be back in federal court today. this time it is a separate anti-trust case. friday's case was the case the tech giant already lost and the federal judge in d.c. wrote that google broke the law and created an online illegal search monopoly. the judge will not decide the punishment until likely next summer. today, the search giant faces another allegation from the government and will begin defending itself in the federal courtroom in virginia. the allegation now is that google's business practices in the online ad marketplace are also monopolistic. expect the government to argue that google's ownership of a digital advertising exchange, as it buys and sells s ads itself,s it owns the stock exchange.

dpoo google is expected to write the government misunderstands the market and has information 15 years out of date. google's legal team will say there are plenty of competitors in the sector and does nothing unfair in the operations of the exchange. among the high profile witnesses is the youtube ceo neal moen. not clear how long the case will last, but several weeks of testimony are expected. by then, guys, we may have a better sense if the government will break up the company overall in the punishment phase in the anti-trust case the company already lost. the judge wants a large overview of what the government wants to do with google by late fall or early winter. we should know what the doj wants somewhere in that timeframe. guys, back to you. >> in the legal parlance, what are the legal remedies to the

monopol monopoly, if that is what the options may be? >> reporter: overall, you could look at a breakup of google. that's what's on the table. it feels to me, putting my finger in the air and seeing where the wind is blowing, it seems that might not be where the government will go. they are looking for something more narrow and targeted. >> why do you say that, by the way? >> reporter: i just think it would be a too dramatic of a shift in the industry. i don't think the government wants to make that many waves here. i think the government wants to curtail google and solve the monopoly issue. i don't think they want to destroy the company. that's just my insight. i could be andrew. we don't know. >> if there isn't a breakup, what you describe is a beh

behavior remedy? >> reporter: you could have a monitoring program. you could force them to spin off smaller pieces. not an overall breakup of the company, but spin certain technology out. ad tech and switching cases to the one going on today. that case is about the double click action from 2007 and 2008 going back years. you may see a situation where they are forced to breakout the double click into a separate entity. you could read that as a, quote, breakup of google, unquote. part of the question is did google acquire its way to monopoly status by making the acquisitions along the way.

wait a second, the department of justice approved the double click acquisition when we did it. >> let me ask you that. are there good examples where the government approved transactions that they ultimately turned around and up ended? >> reporter: that's a good question. generally speaking if the government approves it, they approve it. in this case, you have a shift in the the wind and what the government is thinking about anti-trust. a generational change in washington. i think it is on both parties. the republican party today is more interested in anti-trust enforcement than it was in 2008. democrats, certainly. i don't think i can think off the top of my head of a good example where the government's approved it and unapproved it a decade later. >> eamon javers in washington this morning. we'll be watching that case. the advertising case, that is,

and then maybe the bigger one as the fall develops. thanks. all right. still to come, will the fed make a deeper rate cut when decision day rolls around on september 18th? we'll get into the state of the economy and markets and the upcoming election with roger altman. evercore chairman and founder and the deputy secretary under former president clinton. and nikki haley will join us on set dtoiscuss the debate. you can get the best of "squawk pod" on your favorite podcast app and listen anytime. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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welcome back, everybody. right now, let's look at the markets and the 2024 race. we will welcome roger altman.

the founder and ceo of evercore. >> thanks, becky. >> we know things are slowing down, but the question is how quickly and is there any sort of a crash that's happening or is this a soft landing? >> i think it's a soft landing. if i'm the fed, i'm pleased. 142,000 new jobs on friday, is a solid figure or decent figure, but it represents a slowing. just in the sweet spot, where it is not so much slowing that it is signaling a recession. the unemployment rate is actually 4.2%. down a bit. hours worked rose a bit. fund amental fundamentally, we're seeing a moderate slowing which the fed wants in terms of its goals on inflation and i know there's, you know, lots of concern as to whether it will weaken further

and weaken seriously. i don't see that. >> i guess the question becomes what's happening under the surface and where things are headed. why is that not the case? the market reaction is not as calm as yours. >> i understand. growth itself is still running by most indications right now at more than 2%. maybe 2 or slightly more than 2. that's remarkable four years into a recovery. remember, we began to recover in the second half of 2020. the outlook for corporate profits, as you know, remains good. 10% plus. markets, of course, i mean, they had a bad september, but still fundamentally all-time highs. open market rates are falling nicely. the ten-year is 70 or 80 basis points below its peak. >> the nasdaq is 10.5% below.

it is in correction territory. >> the ten-year treasury. >> i'm talking the nasdaq. >> anyway, i don't see -- i don't see a recession and i think equity markets -- excuse me, they would be reacting differently if they saw a recession and they're still strong and high. >> so, what should we expect from the fed? gradual 25 basis point cuts? most of the markets are expecting 100 basis points by the end of the year. is that what you think, into. >> i think it's a coin toss which way that will come out. i agree 75 to 100 basis points by the end of the year in terms of the kac cumulative cut. i think the soft-landing scenario is fully in tact. >> if the fed would cut 50 basis points, sdoes that signal to yo

something else is going on? i think people would be spooked if that happened. >> which is why you would bet it won't although i think it's a very close call. i think it's more likely to be three 25s, but i think it's close. >> and what would change your mind? what numbers? because some people would argue the numbers we're looking at is out dated. what are the numbers you watch closely to see? >> there's a theory, let's call it the underlining monthly job growth rate is weaker than it looks. when you add in -- when you factor in these large retroactive downward revisions we've seen that the current monthly job rate implies a higher unemployment rate. i still don't think that's a strong case for 50, but it's a case for 50.

so, that would probably be the mentality the fed would bring to it if it went to 50. we know from powell's jackson hole speech, he was very clear, that the fed is more focused on the labor markets than the inflation rate. pce at 2.5 already and probably softening further. they are laser focused on the labor markets and they may clon included they are weaker than they look. >> roger, you're a democrat. you said you are supporting kamala harris. when you look at the economic policies and they are starting to give us more details on both camps. both the harris and the trump camps on this. what do you see as the distinction? how do you come at this from the economic perspective in terms of why you come down on this support? >> well, let's spend just a second on the trump agenda and we'll come to harris. you know, trump has said he

wants to quote terminate the affordable care act. 21.3 million people currently receiving healthcare through the affordable care account. he wants to terminate the inflation reduction act which is the basis for the first time negotiating prescription drug prices for seniors and capping the out of pocket caps and $35 cap on insulin. he said he wants to compromise the independence of the federal reserve. he said he wants to deport 11 million people at a time when the unemployment rate is 4.2%. most of those people are working which is a terrible economic idea. he said he wants to end assistance for ukraine and hand it to putin. and so forth. so, i think that's a disturbing

agenda. now, harris' is essentially reflecting the biden general with a few modifications. she's basically put forward a cost of living agenda with the proposal for an expanded child care tax credit, which many republicans support. incentives for first-time home pewer buyers and increasing the supply of housing. and she is signaling a more moderate stance on both the corporate tax rate and capital gains tax rate, as you know. >> and then the biden proposals. >> yeah. the main job which she will have, if she's elected, is implementing these three gigantic long-term investment programs. the infrastructure act, the infli inflation reduction act and the

chips act which are in the blood bloodstream, but not fully implemented. they are gigantic. in my view, they do not argue for a sovereign wealth fund. i know president biden is apparently working on that proposal. president trump proposed it. >> that sounds crazy when we can't get our debt and deficit under control. you are right you disagree with the proposals of president trump. you are sugar coating what vice president kamala harris is proposing in her platform. you didn't mention price fixing or the wealth tax. i imagine you don't agree with everything she's put out there. >> no, i don't. i think the proposal on the ban of grocery level price gouging is an unsound idea. no, i don't agree with all of it. basically, you have to ask yourself do i like president biden's economic record and

economic priorities because her's are going to be somewhat different, but not fundamentally different. look at the record. >> she's still talking about raising taxes in a lot of areas that the economy and spending more money at the same time. >> you may not believe polls, but they're down ten. it's like 50/30 on the economy for trump, roger. i think you ought to take that back. you should not ask people if you like that record. you can try to sell it again. >> first of all, that's a fair point. that's a very fair point. i think that's reflects in fairness the inflation surge. people can argue that until the cows come home. i think there's a lot of fresh memory of that in terms of grocery prices. >> it's still high. >> people are sour about it. i agree with that. >> yeah, still high. they haven't come down. rate of increase has come down.

>> nein terms of where we are today, growth has been steady under president biden. 15 million new jobs. markets have been very, very strong. >> when you include the jobs that came back and then the addition of the numbers. >> the number is the number. >> right. >> he has been a terrific president for markets. obviously, the pce, as i said, at 2.5%. that problem has worked its with a largely through the system. we'll see how people vote and it's hard if you're down that much on the economy, joe, it's not easy to win. it's going to be really, really close. obviously, we'll know a lot more after tomorrow night. i think it's going to be very close. >> mm-hmm. >> if you were allowed to moderate around the edges of kamala harris' proposals, what would you push back the most? what would you like to see taken out? >> i think her proposals

represent a modest set of tweaks on the biden agenda. not a very dramatic set of tweaks. i like her child care tax proposal and her incentives for housing. as i said, i don't like the grocery price ban. >> yeah. >> i don't like the idea of the sovereign wealth fund. she hasn't endorsed it herself, but the white house is reportedly working on it. >> it is interesting how the candidates look alike. one will say, donald trump will say i'm not going to tax tips. >> and they copy each other. >> she comes out and says it. same with the sovereign wealth proposal. it is kind of interesting to see how similar they are in some areas. >> i don't think that's a wonderful idea, eliminating taxes on tips. what do you say to a steel worker who doesn't get tips and all income subject to the tax? >> right. or to a teacher or to a nurse or

to, you know, fireman. >> i don't love that idea. >> i don''t either. >> but, i do like most of her agenda and i think it is fundamentally aimed at cost of living issues which is the central point of voter concerns over the economy. i just don't think you're going to see her, if she is elected, embarking on a radical departure from what would have been biden's economic agenda had he stayed in the race and been successful. >> roger, thank you very much. roger altman. >> pleasure. coming up when we return, we have a huge line up of guests. michael saylor is here talking bitcoin and later,enor t sated cruz joins us at 8:10 a.m. he wants to get rid of taxes on tips. we'll talk to him about that and so much more. "squawk box" rolling on right after this.

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coming up we'll get a rundown of this morning's stock movers with positives in the averages. first, though, the future of crypto currencies, including regulations, price of bitcoin all of that with michael saylor joining us on set next. "squawk box" is coming right back.

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let's take a look at crypto prices this morning. see 55,000 now. joining us michael saylor, microstrategy executive chairman. you never stop adding to the position of your company and you have -- you have a lot of courage because there's been a lot of major swings in the past and there were times when i was worried. can you tell me were you ever close to margin calls? anything happening to microstrategy? >> when silver gate bank failed we had to redeem that, but we made money on that redemocption. but we've bought about

$8.3 billion worth of bitcoin and bitcoin is up 40% average a year since then, the s&p 12%. we're up 825% since we levered it. the number one forming stock is nvidia up 821% as of friday. so we beat every single company in the index using bitcoin strategy. >> does microstrategy do anything else? >> we run the software business still and it's generally a cash cow for us. so we're securityizing bitcoin. selling the bonds. some people want 150% risk. so some people want highly levered equity and trade the options. and so we have a very big deep, rich options market. we have high performance equity and pioneered the bitcoin backed bond market by issuing these

bonds backed by 5x bitcoin collateral. >> has anything changed in terms of the investor class investing in your stock versus now investing in an etf. obviously one is more levered than the other. >> etf, you gooetting one per o performance base fee, no yield. we issue a bond paying 1% interest we're capturing a 50% type etc yield on that up front and then we capture another yield on the back end so if you wanted a tax deferred yield on your asset or tap into the convertible bond market. if you wanted to borrow a billion dollars for a percent, buy olympibitcoin, hold it for years you can't do it as an individual but micro staej can.

>> $1.2 billion took place in the outflows of the etf. i wonder what you think is going to? >> i think generally it's a good thing and creating more demand by bitcoin is strong, fast money. so so saturday night worried about a missile strike you can't go and short new york real estate but you can short million dollars in bitcoin. so you have fast money traders, lot of volatility and that will cause and ripple into volatility into etfs. >> can you explain that. if this was a missile strike or something, there was a sense people talked about it as digital gold maybe you think that's the case still. but it doesn't act like digital gold in the midst of a missile

strike. >> it's the most liquid, fungible free apartment in the world. your new york apartment is not fungible, liquid. i can't panic sell it. >> isn't it supposed to be the long term. >> it's up 40% a year over the year. you get 3x with the vix. so over the long term as an investor it's great because it's strong capital. over the near term if you're a trader you get lots of opportunities. >> is it a noncorrelated asset people can depend on. >> in the near term whoever has the most money can decide if it correlates or noncorrelates. i can deliver 20 to 1 saturday night and trade it long or short. >> the idea of leverage in

something that is admittedly so volatile. i'm far more conservative, i would be worried about that. what's the worst case scenario in something that would happen with the bitcoin etf. >> people offshore trading on binance get wiped out saturday night when there's a potential missile scare. so they're the degenerate crypto traders. on the other hand what you want is a free, open capital market. everybody can trade it anyway they want. so if you hold it for more than four years you're going to get superior performance with that volatility. >> with all we've seen, i wonder what you think, do you have anecdotal evidence exactly what he's thinking in terms of bitcoin regulation? given what he -- do you think he's done the 100 hours that need to be done to understand it? if so, what do you attribute

to -- he's been unable to stop it because of the courts but he's tried. what do you attribute that too? >> i think the administration has been conservative in their embrace of the crypto economy they want to go slow, deliberately, carefully. >> do they want to go or not go? >> before gensler entered office it was no but since he got into office you're hearing them all say it's a speculative digital asset. i think clearly we're all waiting for big banks, bulge banks to start custody and hold bitcoin that will be the third big shoe to drop. >> do you think that the election matters? and do you believe that donald trump is more bitcoin friendly

than like a biden and harris -- >> there's no doubt republicans have taken a pro-crypto stance? >> republicans or trump? >> trump in particular. >> you believe him? >> there's a tension between the 21st century and the 20th century. 20th century, a company becomes public it costs $100 million in four years to go public. i know i did it in '98. in the 21st century, i can create a company in 10 minutes. that's the crypto economy. the traditional is you spend 20 million a year on compliance in 10 years. so i think the two are talking to each other. >> you know what senator

elizabeth warren thinks about bitcoin, i have seen here big jobs -- >> the political winds have shifted andi would say that, you know, at this point the -- the republicans have shifted to way progressive and the democrats are drifting to the middle. >> in terms of bitcoin? >> in terms of their view towards crypto and bitcoin. >> and let's say that it is a continuation of the biden/harris administration. does gensler take on a larger role it becomes more difficult? >> that's all above my pay grade. what i would say is, my view is -- >> to be treasury secretary -- >> you buy bitcoin, hold it for more than four years, joe, that's my advice to everybody. >> buy it and hold it for more than four years. and you think eventually it takes how much -- say it is digital gold, what percentage of

gold's market cap did it finally -- >> bitcoin is .1% of the cap in the world i think it's going to 7%. my long term forecast is it's going to 13 million over 21 years. >> what is it five years from now? >> you know, it's been growing 44% a year with about a 40 to 50 vol. i think it moves on to 40%, then down to 35, then 30, then 25. at some point it'll be the s&p return plus 8% and it'll be the s&p vol plus 8% because it's going to be a global free market capital. >> how is there stuff above your pay grade? you're worth billions. we can say that but how can people say it's above your pay grade? >> bitcoin is an expression you

want to view in an asset without counter party risk, you don't want to be counter party to a country, city, commodity, culture, people think it's a risky thing. it's all about people not wanting to take risk. they don't want to guess whether picassos, real estate or nvidia will be worth more in years. >> michael, thank you. >> thank you for having me. it's more than just past 7:00 a.m., about 7:07 on the east coast. you're watching "squawk box" on n cnbc i'm andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernen. let's see whether this bounce can continue given the bounce

the opposite direction last week. i want to get to dom chu, looking at this morning's big movers. good morning. >> good morning. let's check the semiconductor stocks all in the green this morning following bigger declines in the sector over the course of the last week. nvidia up about .75%. taiwan semi, micron, qualcomm, advanced micro all showing solid gains after 13% down nvidia last week. so you're seeing the tick up in the shares of other chip stops that pulled back as well. we'll now start with the look at shares of apple. up one half of 1% before the event the company is expected to unveil the slate of models for the iphones and apple watches. they're expecting the tech giant to highlight the a.i.

capabilities. so apple shares up about.75%. and over the weekend we got a report that iphones will use the next generation chip technology s from arm so that's boosting their shares today. and merck is down roughly 2.5, 3% right now. summit is soaring some 35% after summit's cancer drug beat merck's keytruda. so those headlines driving the biotech actions. summit huge watch here today, 25% upside. becky, back to you. >> thank you. we will check in again in a bit. the markets trying to recover some of last week's decline. you have the s&p 500 down 4% last week, a lot of the damage

coming from the tech sector but we have the dow up 250 plus points. also nikki haley is going to be joining us on set around 7:20 a.m. easten rn time this mornin. we'll dig into the debate between former president trump and vice president harris. much more from "squawk box" we'll be right back. meet kandi technologies, where innovative, eco friendly design meets exceptional performance. our diverse portfolio includes utvs, go carts, golf carts and e-bikes. explore electric investment opportunities.

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u.s. equity strategy at rbc capital markets. do you expect it to hold for the week, day, or do we go back to the feelings we had last week. >> i'm not bearish on the market by any stretch we have a 5,700 target but i was surprised to see the green. we've seen the aai indicator hover around levels that elus the we need a breather. we have a lot of election uncertainty which you have done a tremendous job of digging into. and september has been a terrible month each of the last four years for the s&p 500. so i think we're due a bit more for a breather. >> 5700 by the end of the year? >> yeah. it depends on which day we are on the market. right now a little bit of upside. some days when we've been at the recent highs we've been a few points below that. >> it's well above where we are.

that manes we get through october, through the election and end up almost 8% higher, something like that. >> you typically do see markets selloff in september and october of a presidential election year and usually get a rebound. the great thing from my seat it doesn't matter who ends up winning just the passage of the event gives relief in the markets. just the alleviation of the uncertainty, i think. >> you wouldn't position your favorite or unfavorite sectors based on the election? >> i've been talking about the election for a year and a half almost. european investors in particular have been focused on sector playbooks for quite some time. one sector we're overweight typically does well i think in seven of the last seven and a half election years is financials. when you go into a presidential election year you have two candidates who sell their vision of the economy. one of those candidates ends up winning. they've done a better job

selling their vision for the future going forward. i think financials tend to cue off of that. but if you zoom out, second half of presidential election years you don't want to be in defensive sectors. old industrial areas like industrials, materials, to lesser extent energy but those cyclical parts of the market tend to do well. we've been pointing a lot of people to that playbook. >> you've been buying financials? >> we've been overweight financials. looking for a rotation from growth to value for quite some time. we've said there's some advantages on the growth trade that make that difficult to take hold but it is finally getting under way. financials are a benefit of that. we've been waiting for this trade for a long time and it's finally playing out. >> lower rates help? >> it's interesting if you look

historically you want higher rates but post the sbb crisis that's been flipped on its head our bank analysts will tell you we would love the sweet spot for banks. they say you want rates to be higher, i'm thinking the ten year as opposed to the fed. but you want interest rates to be higher than they've been historically but come down off the highs we've seen recently. girard said if we get cuts, we avoid the recession, that's the win for the banks. >> the two strong environments for stocks is when republicans control everything or you have a democratic president with a split congress. my gut says we'll get a split congress out of this. the policies discussed, very little will get through, i think markets would like that continuation of gridlock, thank you. >> lori, thank you. coming up when we return,

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welcome back, everybody. she is a former republican presidential candidate who has taken the debate stage against former president trump but is now backing him. joining us is former south carolina governor nikki haley, also the former ambassador to the united nations. governor, ambassador thank you for being with us. >> great to see you all again. >> i will ask the okay you said things about donald trump like he was too old, unhinged, angry to be president and now you're supporting him. why is that? >> we've been given a choice it's either kamala harris or donald trump. at the end of the day i'm looking at the policies, the substance of it. he cut taxes she raised taxes.

he's strong on the border she's weak on the border. he was turn on national security. she weaker on national security. i look at the cost of housing and groceries, it's 19% increases. for me it's about what the next four years going to be like and i don't think we can have another four years like we had. >> roger altman is here a democrat who was the former deputy treasury secretary under bill clinton. he said that overall kamala harris is going to be working on behalf of middle income americans and lower income americas. she'll be doing things to get at the prices you just talked about. why do you think donald trump's policies would be better? >> i respectfully disagree. how can you say that when she

talked about raising taxes, rolling back tanx cuts. so take her at her word, what we've already seen her do and know that you're going to have more of that. she's not getting in the weeds talking about it. but let's not be like the uk what do we see happen in the uk? a lot of generalities said, the labor party wins and they found out exactly what they did. >> she said she's not raising taxes on people making under 400,000 there are people looking at the tariffs that trump wants and saying that's a tax on middle income. >> i disagree with tariffs. you're raising prices on farmers, businesses, consumers. it's never a good idea. >> the question i was going to ask you goes back to temperament in this. but the idea, though, of you

said we saw what happened with harris, right or the biden administration. and we also saw what happened with the obama administration. and the question is -- i know you're talking about policies, you like trump's policies but you have said disastrous things about not just his policies but -- not policy itself but ultimately democracy and the country. you talked about that and we've seen it with our own eyes. so i'm trying to understand how you sort of make that leap. for those voters listening to you who may agree or disagree with you, what do you tell them? >> if i thought either one was good i wouldn't have run for office. but now that we're given this we don't have perfect candidates but we have to figure out which one is going to work for us. i think about my kids. i saw how hard it was for my daughter to buy a home. my son is looking for a ob, he's worried about affording rent. i see what my daughter's grocery

bill is. when you talk about taxing unrealized gains. >> the unrealized gains piece, which i don't agree with either is not something that impacts most americans, you agree with that? >> i agree. but it's the mindset if you go in with the mindset of we're going to take tax dollars from one group of people to pay off college loans for another group of people. it's that socialist mindset that's a problem. that's the concern i have, let's not forget she was one of the most progressive senators that we had. when she said my values haven't changed, take her at her word. >> governor you at one point said -- i don't know whether you regret saying it at this point but something like if we leave trump the republicans and democrats get rid of biden you are electing kamala harris. >> i said a few things. >> you used to say that all the time. >> do you think that's the case? >> i said a vote for joe biden

is a vote for kamala harris. i said that the party that gets rid of their 80-year-old candidate is the party sitting in the right seat. i said there would be a female president of the united states, kamala harris or me. >> you said it at a time when she was the most unpopular vice president in history and no one in the main stream media gave her a chance. have you been surprised -- >> no. >> -- at the way the main stream media has embraced vice president harris? and really rehabilitated her before our very eyes. it' i it's endearing you have to admit how nice they've become. >> it's re, maable to see they took a candidate in 48 hours, revamped and put her back out there. >> is there no conscious? it's that important to stop the bad orange man. >> no one voted for her. she's never done a debate before, and she's going into a presidential election. she has not been tested through

those eyes. but she earned it. this is where she is. i'm not one that's going to talk about intelligence or anything. you're smart to get to this point. she's gotten to this point. but if you look at it don't suddenly act like she's someone different than we've seen. >> couldn't everything you just said be said about your comments about the former president? >> this is not blind support for him. this is saying when it comes to policy -- >> i understand that but we're saying that the entire universe has just completely switched on a dime about how they feel about vice president harris, i'm saying you switched on a dime how you feel about vice president -- >> that's not -- >> you didn't switch on a dime? >> no. everything i said about trump i'm standing by it. i'm saying we've been given two candidates i'm a voter too. i have to go and look at what do i want for my family, where's safety, look at the border. the national security

perspective is chilling. you can't look at those and say safety, economy, energy are going to be an issue. across the board we need to look at what we've got. find me one more america who says they're better the last four years. >> most of the people who have any stock in this market would tell you that, actually. they would. >> average american. >> not enough americans own stock in the market. >> that what i'm saying. average americans if you ask them, they're just trying to make ends meet. i saw it on the campaign trail. it's a big issue for them. it's not just them it's tharp kids. so as a mom that's what i look at. as the wife of a combat veteran i look at national security. if it's based on style it would be different. but it's based on substance not

style. >> even her close associates that she sponsored bills with, bernie sanders, they asked is this a change in how she feels or becoming pragmatic and he said, yeah yeah. >> she's doing it to get elected. >> yeah. >> i don't know why bernie has trouble not getting on board with the story being put out but it's very clear that's what this -- >> you know, when i said that a vote for joe biden is a vote for kamala harris and when i said mental competency test, that wasn't a joke. i was very serious about that. because the writing was on the wall. i knew joe biden wouldn't make it through a presidential campaign. the writing is on the wall for me. you are getting the same kamala harris that has always been there. she said herself, her values haven't changed. we need to know that. >> she would have been the most liberal person in the senate.

pat toomey, dick cheney, they all have the same story. i had -- i think kamala harris is an absolute nightmare but i can't -- it's a vote for kamala harris. they can't find a scintilla of difference between it's a binary choice as republican -- i guess you honor their decision. >> i respect it. >> you respect it. but you're going to vote for trump? >> i'm thinking about my kids, the future of this next four years. >> it doesn't mean the end of democracy and a police state and a dictator on day one. >> we technically we're in world war three right now, russia has invaded ukraine, hamas invaded israel. china using aggression on taiwan, look at the opioid problem we have. i'm looking at the people responsible that started this trend, none of that would have happened had we not had the fall

in afghanistan, from a national security perspective which you know i've always cared about that. the world sees harris as weak. >> would you have accepted vice president. >> i don't talk about hypotheticals. that wasn't an issue, wasn't something that came to me. when you're given something -- >> how did you get back together? >> have you had discussions to serve in a potential -- >> i'm not interested in serving in washington. >> you're saying straight up, if he wins if we talk to you in february you will not be part of the administration. >> no. i didn't run to get a position. i ran -- >> no, i'm saying if he calls you up and says i want you to be the secretary of state you're going to tell him no. >> i have no interest in serving -- >> you might be secretary of state. >> i have no interest. >> we have an interest maybe in you being secretary of state and the country maybe would. i'm not sure i take that at face

value. are you a sur frogate right now? have they asked? >> they haven't asked. i'm a truth teller. he knows if he needs me he can ask and i'll be helpful. they haven't asked. i will tell you it's a close election and every step matters. you have the debate coming up, but the last 45 days, that's go time. any one thing can throw it off. what i have said to donald trump that i think is hugely important is go ask for the votes of suburban women, college educated -- >> personally you said this to him. >> yes. >> when's the last time you talked to him. >> mid june. go ask for college women, suburban, independents, moderate conservatives, ask them for a vote and tell them you need them. >> was it a cordial

conversation. >> yes. i said, i want you to know i support you, i don't want to see the democrats win, we can't afford another four years and i said this is what you need to do. >> quickly, you have to go. but tomorrow night is the debate. what would you be watching for? what would be something we could be watching for? >> trump would be smart not to get personal, not to talk about personality, not to demean intelligence and talk about the policies. she is a prosecutor, he's a good debater. i think she will do well, he will do well. their goal is not to make any major mistakes. >> governor haley, thank you. >> thank you. great to be with you again. in the next hour we'll speak to gina raimondo. as we head to break, look at the biggest premarket winners and losers in the s&p 500.

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welcome back to "squawk box." our next guest is a best selling author and this week he has a new book titled "n"hnexus" this book takes a look at information and a.i. and i want to talk about a.i. in terms of elections and so many other things but why don't we start with its impact on the financial markets since

that's the world we live in. how do you think it's going to change things, most of this book argues that actually, that a.i. is very dangerous. is there a possibility that at least in the financial world it's helpful. >> it's not the question of helpful or dangerous. it's the magnitude of the change. basically if today -- how many people understand the financial system. less than 1% of humanity i think would be a fair guess. so in ten years it could be exactly zero. >> because we're not going to understand what's happening behind the scenes? >> yes. because a.i. will take over more and more of the managerial jobs in finance and creating, inventing, new financial devices which are more complicated than anything we know today and it's beyond the human capacity. i mean, finance is the ideal playing ground for a.i. because

it's purely informational and mathematical to put a self-driving car on the road is very difficult as we've learned in the last ten years because you need to interact with physical reality and social reality. but in the financial system it's just numbers. we tell the a.i. make as many dollars as can you, and it can invent new strategies and new financial devices that people have difficulty understanding and therefore regulating. >> what do you think of most of the algorithms that are working today in the markets? because most of it is trying to predict or at least play off of the sentiment, right. the way everybody is thinking -- >> yeah. >> but you're saying that the thinking part of it is going to diminish? >> on the one hand to diminish. on the other hand the ability of a.i. to manipulate humans will increase, to manipulate our

attention. this is the -- the key thing to understand about a.i. it's not a tool in our hands. it's an agent, it's an independent agent making decisions, inventing new things. and therefore, it has the potential to change every area, finance, the military, religion, in ways we never saw before in history. we never encountered, created an agent. everything we created before was just a tool. >> this is a business show but you you ththink it's going to c religion. >> yes. >> how so? >> think about a holy text that can talk back to you. humans have been dreaming about a text created by a super human sbregs throughout history. but all the texts that they created so far like the bible, or whatever, they couldn't talk back. you always needed humans to interpret them.

>> to interpret it. >> now you can have a text created by a super human intelligence that can talk back to you and can interpret itself. if you don't understand something in the text. >> let me ask you a different question about what some people think of as a religion, silicone valley. bill gates loves you and mark zuckerberg and others. but a lot of what you write about is critical of silicone valley and the companies including open a.i. and microsoft and google and so on. what's the relationship you have now with those folks? you used to be greeted like a god talking religion in the valley. >> we'll see after the book. the message is you have to take responsibilities for the actions of your algo rithmsalgorithms. especially when it comes to social media they try to protect themselves by appealing to freedom of speech we don't want

to sensor our users. i agree. we should be careful about censoring human users but the companies need to take responsibility for their algorithm. >> you write about this. the idea that you believe the companies need to have true liability for the algorithm itself. we've been having this liability debate as you know in the social media landscape for a long time. and it hasn't happened, right. so the social media has not been liable for either the content itself -- >> because it muddies the water. whenever you raise the issue they go to freedom of speech. we are not responsible for what our users say. and i don't want to sensor them. and i generally agree but it's like the editor of "the new york times" if he or she accomplishes something on the front page, they can't say that i'm not responsible for my choice to put it on the first page. what i'm -- what we should say to twitter and facebook, if you are not responsible for what

your users are writing but if your algorithms decide to promote -- >> what happens if your algorithm is writing it -- >> then you're definitely liable for what your algorithm is writing. again this is a huge change because previously the algorithms only pushed human content, now they can create it. >> where do you land on somebody like elon musk who made the argument and bought twitter with the idea that information should be free. and that information not only should be free but will inform and help a thriving democracy? >> information isn't truth. most information in the world is junk. most information is lies and fantasies and fictions. it's the -- the truth is a rare and costly and complicated kind of information. >> do we want the fantasy then? is -- should fantasy be allowed?

>> yes, it should be legal. we're not saying ban it. but if you think you just flood the world with information, and the truth will float up, no. it will sink. this is why you need institutions like newspapers, universities who specialize in sifting through this massive -- >> mark zuckerberg, as you know, just a couple of weeks ago now came out and said that he had misgivings would be the best way to say it. about some of the information that their algorithm was effectively suppressing as it relates to covid and vaccines and other things. so the question is should the al -- algorithm be suppressing things? or should we let it all out? >> should the editor of "the new york times" have any

responsibility for what they publish on the first page or say it's information, put the first things that come up. people have been grappling with this question for thousands of years. this is the basic question of journalists, historians, judges how do i tell the difference between reliable and unreliable information. if you now run some of the biggest media companies in the world, which is what twitter and facebook are, and you can't deal with it, if you can't bear the heat get out of the kitchen. if you don't know how to tell the difference between reliable and unreliable information, you have no business in media. you have no business in shaping the public conversation and deciding what will be at the center of attention and what will be on the side. we are not talking censorship. people have a right even to tell lies. it's most cases at least it's legal to lie, we do it all the time. but as the manager of a major media company that decides what

the attention of the -- where the attention of the public goes, you have a responsibility to know how to tell the difference between reliable and unreliable information. >> layer a.i. on top and it gets more complicated. we appreciate you being with us. congratulations on the publication of your new book "nexus". >> thank you. when we come back, new home building data and our interview with ted cruz for his no tax on tips act and the support it's receiving on the hill. stay tuned everybody you're watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc. visit indeed.com/hire welcome to the now way to network... they switched to juniper's ai-native network. and now, everything is so reliable... that no one is ever left in the dark. that's the now way to network at work, with real ai—for an experience— that's so lit! ♪♪ ♪♪

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warner brothers, "beetlejuice" topping the weekend box offices raking in $110 million opening weekend. second biggest september debut of all-time behind 2017's "it." third biggest debut of the year so far. i know that wynonna --

>> beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice! >> don't say it three times. >> she made it in there. willem dafoe. i don't know who else. i don't think alec baldwin is in it and i don't's think jgeena davis was in it. they were dead people in the first movie. >> i saw it years ago. >> could they reprise their dead people? are they still dead and around? ghosts still around. >> why not? >> and the second one, in the second one. macaulay culkin's mother from "home alone" also in it. >> oh, i love her. >> what's her name? >> maureen o'hara. the only people i saw were michael keaton, if you haven't seen it, just for his performance you should see it. it's amazing. i mean, he's amazing. >> looks weird. >> it is weird. dead with -- people that smoked

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single-family new home orders had 15% increase from august in july. compared to previous years we've seen, higher. joining us now ivy zelman, zelman and associates executive vice president and co-founder. what do you think's happening here? >> well, we had a 40-basis decline in mortgage rates. good morning, by the way. thanks for having me. and a sample size from our home survey representing about 15% of new home sales and a big bounce in august, and i think that's response to drop in rates. keep in mind builders are offering substantial mortgage rate buy-downs. some product offered for 30 years in the high 3s. so you can imagine that's quite a value for the consumer and offsets the affordability seeing in the market. very positive.

>> how much of this is because of lower rates and the expectation that those rates will continue to come down? >> definitely a benefit from lower rates. interesting. in existing home market really no benefit at all to drop in rates so far and yet we've seen rising inventories. people are contemplating moving and, therefore, listing their homes, however, the lack of certainty when the fed will cut i think gives many of those existing buyers reason to pause and wait for the further decline in rates. they don't have the mortgage rate buy-downs and other propositions builders provide in the existing home market. >> we've had this huge gap between the supply and demand of homes required in this country for a long time. where do you see that gap at this point? and where do you think it's going to be, let's say, over the next year or so? >> a lot of talk about the shortage. the problem, we have significant short aft but don't solve the problem because the product

doesn't offer monthly payments people can afford. yes, a shortage. offered product, whether rental of an apartment or for sale product, that allowed people to buy for, say, $1,000 a month, a lot of decoupling and roommates going on their own, people leaving mom and dads but we don't have the ability to build that product. more rhetoric than anything we can focus on, frankly. >> don't have the ability to build that product because it's an impossibility. not enough land that comes under this. asking in the context of the presidential election where both candidates want to address affordable housing. what's the best way to get at that, from your opinion? >> frankly, i don't want to be cynical, i don't think they can. it's at the local municipality level. builders are charged impact fees resting anywhere from 10% to 5

per -- 15%. schools, fire department, fees on top of land and land with no abatement inflating the last 15 years. i don't think you can, frankly, at the federal level, and i think both of the candidates really are focusing on demand. that's not, you pointed out, the problem. it's supply. >> if the problem is local and state-level fixes, there's got to be some places where it's more attractive to builders. where would those places be and what would they do differently? >> you have to go to markets where the impact fees are low and just overall, probably, arguably, markets not as hot. where people have not wanted to move. the midwest is always a market that's more affordable, but today i think builders are recognizing that and continuing really more importantly to sprawl in existing markets. when you look at where they're building new communities, they keep going further and further out. that is really the only way to

offset the higher costs. further you go out, low are the land price is and how they've been basically offsetting the higher costs. >> interesting. inside the idea you need a further and further commute from home why work from home is more attractive these days. intractsable problems facing some of these very desirable, to this point, places to live. ivy, thank you for your time today. really appreciate it and hope to see you again soon. >> thank you very much. have a great day. >> thanks. it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. you are watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. apple expected to unveil the apple iphone 16 today with what's known at apple intelligence set to play a major role in the announcement. cnbc will bring you announcement as they come by. also on tap this morning the department of justice takes on

google in a second antitrust trial starting today. google's accusedon monopoly-type practice and this morning citi seeing big potential upside for dell. shares up 5.2% door fell. palantir 8.7%. futures, a nice bounce after a tough week. to put it lightly. dow up now. nasdaq looking to open 132 points higher, and s&p 5 00 up s well. two year sitting at 3. 7. straight to mike santoli at the new york stock exchange this morning. what you looking at? >> yeah, andrew. tension released built up last week. did have persistent pressure to down side.

lots of concern about the state of the job market, whether the economy would weaken faster than the fed could catch it. an technical conditions. oversold in a short-term basis end of friday's close. as we did after the first week of august. you see here. that sell-off from mid-july into beginning of august. august 5th the low. mapping that idea we could have relief after that first week. also pointing out the japanese yen was strengthening last week and got people nervous based on the squeeze that happened in the yen around that early august level. it's selling back off today. so seems as if people are feeling like maybe not that much has changed relative to where the equities have gone. look at semiconductors. weakest part of the market recently compared to the equal-weighted s&p 500. year-to-date. shows a couple of times, semis had these corrections and bounced off where the equal rate, average stock trading in the s&p 500. down there again.

stretched to the down side at this point. definitely lost leadership position semis had a while. net negative maybe. today seems primed for a relief bounce. macro conditions i mentioned. market's concerned the fed maybe will be late in cutting or not do enough. here's the spread between the two-year treasury yield and fed funds rate going back a long way. around 150, 160. a four-week average from renaissance macro. the other times this deep, '08 and '01 associated with recession, obviously. you could say the market's way of saying the fed's got to get moving may bob the economy is weakening or the spread above 5.25 and inflation is right now leaves a tremendous amount of room to cut. i don't think it's the market saying, hey, soft landing called off. certainly i guess has gotten doubts in a lot of investors' heads whether it can be that easy. >> all right. mike, thank you.

by the way, just want to point out that you were playing along from there as we were talking about "beetlejuice." you correctly knew who we were talking about. "home alone" mom. >> great catherine o'hara, we said who she was. >> yes. >> jeffrey what's-his-face had trouble, mike. >> what's that? >> jeffrey what's-his-face, issues. trouble. look it up. google. >> i got it. >> you remember what i'm talking about. an actor, who -- funny you would say that. but, no. >> you mentioned jeffrey's in trouble? >> his own issues. a little different. mike, thank you, and we'll see you again soon. getto the broader markets. tech. nasdaq off worst week since 2022. nvidia lost 14% last week.

joining us, sylvia cyablonski. not a convince that the nasdaq was at its worst level since january 2022 and you had the ten year, two year spread inverted since that time. finally uninvert on the close for the first time on friday. it's weird, though. usually looking at interest rates coming down you would be looking at that being good news for technology. what changed last week? >> yeah. good morning, becky. i think it was the jobs number that really changed last week. right? we've been obsessed with the word "inflation" the last couple of years and watching the cpi print and shifted over now to jobs. that's a big gauge for the fed. that cooling number was not favorable for the markets. also nvidia and broadcom earnings that disappointed investors. arguably they were good. the street has come to expect these outlandish estimates

looking forward. they can tame, the market pulled back. it's a great opportunity to buy on the dip as you just said. nvidia's pulled back about 14%. >> nvidia. >> and nvidia. bu future of a.i. and these are good opportunities. >> triggering joe. >> triggers me. you know, bottom -- >> sylvia, talk about what happened with nvidia last week. news out about the potential for an investigation looking into them. company shot it down. what do you think really brought down technology last week? by the way, a little strange, because if it had been nvidia, specific, you wouldn't have expected it to roll over to some competitors in particular? >> yeah. i think -- i do think, again, it's uncertainty in terms of the jobs number. whether or not the fed is going to match that soft landing. what the rate cut will be?

front load, take time on it, when will it happen? and september blues prophecy i think. market pulls back in september. investors become panicked. vix 50% higher than average. in the 20s or so on average. that's not concerning for markets. i just think it's trepidation, seasonality. weaker jobs number. just need all of this to reset and i'm bullish on the year. i think like last week was, look at the s&p 493. this week, we'll see. pullback. maybe go back into the semiconductors. there's great opportunity here. >> your point, we're not in the final inning of a.i. >> absolutely not. >> and not giving up hope at this point. at least rebelief in this. is this enough of a pullback or wait for more in the september, october, potentially crazy market area? >> becky, talked with you about this, too. i'm very much buyer on dips and long-term holder's semiconductor

and tech names. i don't care so much what happens to nvidia and broadcom in the next couple weeks. they'll have blowout earnings for years to come. the last 20 years nvidia is a top performing stock. a trend that seems to be there. i like these opportunities. pick these names up on sale hold them for long periods of time and a.i. in its infancy working out kinks, how it's actually going to help companies improve top and bottom lines. that will play out as these things have time to actually work through. >> quickly, sylvia. not just some of the tech names you like. also eli lilly? real opportunity there as well? >> real opportunity there. blowout earnings. seem to be able to meet demand they have for weight-loss drugs. big line topline baby boomer pay a large defensive name dividend.

interest in weight-loss drugs and lily seems to come out at a fair winner there. >> thanks. >> thank you. coming up, texas senator ted cruz joining us live onset to talk about his no tax on tips bill. later, speak with current commerce secretary and harris campaign surrogate gina raimondo. don't go anywhere. "squawk box" will be right back. ♪(voya)♪ there are some things that work better together. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. presentation looks great. thanks! thanks! voya provides tools that help you make the right investment and benefit choices so you can reach today's financial goals. that one! and look forward, to a more confident future. that is one dynamic duo.

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both donald trump and kamala harris have said they support tax-free tips. our next guest, no tax on tips act. and joining us, texas senator ted cruz. good to have you on. i think you're in a hostile audience here. >> just on the tips. >> that's all right. >> what i'm talking about. >> i feel confident y'all are not getting paid through tips? >> i have. >> we're not, but might ask to be paid in tips depending on how

this goes. >> down the road, who knows. right? no. i used to work in mcdonald's. wait a second. i guess i actually didn't. sounds good. >> you might be the next president. that is a qualification. >> just explain what you do tell the rest of the world why they have to pay taxes on however they get compensation, but -- >> listen, i'm not hearing a lot of people feeling grumpy the waitress at denny's is not having to pay taxes on tips. look at tips. people climbing the economic ladder typically just getting started, waiters, waitresses, taxi cap drivers, bartenders, hairdressers people who work in a nair salon. they're folks who are struggling. they're not tending to make a ton of money, and the paperwork and the burden of paying taxes on tips. i think it's not justified. i also think -- i think republicans, we are and should be the party of blue collar workers. the party of jobs.

president trump came up with the idea. he announced it at the vegas rally, and when i heard it, a phenomenon idea. turned to my team. draft it. it says something when i filed the bill, with days both of the nevada senators, both democrats, catherine cortez masto and jackie rosen came up and joined it immediately. this is endorsed by both the national restaurant association and the culinary union. bringing together all of the players, i think it's just a good idea. >> can i lay out -- i understand where you're coming from. i get it. i was a waitress earning $2.5 an hour. >> server is the new -- >> waitress and bartender. what we were called. i did the job for the tips. >> did you wear flare? >> i didn't. not at friday's. i did it because of tips. made a lot of money. great. my daughter was a waitress this year. >> server, please. >> and the reason it's a big complaint, it was never

something where it was tracking force. people paying money, not paying tips. everything's electronics, paid on tips and feel like took a pay cut never paying before and weren't being tracked. my biggest problem with this, what it does for other employees who aren't. not talking a lot of others -- >> teachers, nurses. >> i have a special needs daughter. one to one aides make $16 an hour, maybe. sometimes less. now intentive to get tip jobs instead of doing the jobs where -- it creates, the unincontended consequence. what happens to that? >> i get that argument and am a fan of broad-based tax reform. i think low taxes, you know, you're mentioning different professions. one of the big things at stake in this election and the difference between donald trump and kamala harris. "wall street journal" calls it the $6 trillion election, that's the delta between how much taxes

go up or down or cut more. recall when i ran for president i ran on a simple flat tax of 16% simple flat tax for business. 10% simple flat tax for families and individuals. i think simplicity is a great approach to tax reform. but same time i don't think the perfect should be the enemy of the good. when you deal with tipped employees, often people struggling, struggling to raise young kids. >> and w-2 employees struggling too. >> sure. >> walmart, target, fast-food restaurants in california make $20 an hour for doing some of these things. great for employees there but draws from the other areas where they can't pay that same amount. it would make more sense to me to raise earned income tax credit. making below a certain level get taxes off. seems like a fairer way of going about it that does not create those unintended consequences. >> and i was saying what

california is doing is exactly backwards. jacked up minimum wage so high restaurants are going out of business, and -- >> this is essentially a a, a wage increase for workers in certain jobs not in others. >> right. but not coming out of the hide of the employer. nobody loses their job because of -- >> shortages in other jobs not making tips. everybody is going to want to be paid on a tip basis. >> that argument i actually think is, the fact every will get paid on tips. tell you what, actually. said a lot. >> and i -- >> tax fraud. you can't have a lawyer who says instead of an hourly bill i have my compensation on tips pup get prosecuted for that. >> i think you you agree creates an unfair standard not everybody is getting the same base. even though making same somewhere else not paid in tips.

not extending this to others, lawyers, people doing fine. i'm talking about people who don't make enough money in equity creating no spaces and hard to find workers in those spaces. a lot of times nurses' aids, these people are doing god's work, creating a huge inequity and somebody who tried to find, huge turnover in those areas, it's heartbreaking. >> why i'm for cutting taxes. most of the 2017 tax cuts are expiring next year. a big issue at stake in the presi presidential -- big issue in my state. just endorsed by chamber of commerce. they endorsed me, ted spent 12 years leading the fight for jobs in the senate. republicans take majority the next majority commerce, transportation, a big deal for

cutting taxes. a big deal for ending the war on energy and oil and gas that's driven up inflation so powerful and also a big deal for things like spectrum and a.i. chairman of the commerce committee we're going to move major amounts of spectrum into the private sector generating billions in investment, thousands of new jobs and right now unfortunately we're falling behind china and other places in terms of making spectrum available. >> a question about reducing taxes. you want to do. you talked over time americans should have semblance of skin in the game same time. currently the 12% bracket goes up to $44,725. 's number. 12% for that. once you get some of the child tax credit and other things there is no tax effectively. the -- then jump to a 22% bracket. from $44,725 to $95,000

effectively. i don't know if you think you wantto bring that bracket down? then go obviously to 24% pr bracket. $182,000. i mention the actual brackets and actual numbers is because there's not huge amounts of room to move if you're planning to try to bring some revenue and then not make it progressive on the other side for the very wealthy? >> andrew, as i said, i think the right approach is simplicity. i've introduced a simple flat tax for individuals. a big standard deduction and then 10% across the board for everybody. also doesn't matter if it's ordinary income, cap gains, long term, short term. no of that matters. everything is 10%. think now all decisions made in this town on tax avoidance, all capital being invested because of tax strategy, if everything's taxed at 10% you actual hadley invest money where you get the

greatest returning with enormous efficiency gains. my simple tax cut was scored, it produced double-digit increases in after tax income for every income, from lowest to highest across the boshd. >> board. >> what does it do for revenue? >> component, also a business component at 16%. what i would say on revenue, if you look at the 2017 tax cuts, the 2017 tax cuts, were all of these negative voices saying this will devastate revenue. they were wrong. passed the 2017 tax cuts and federal revenue went up year after year after year. significantly increased federal revenue and one of the big reasons, because it generated incredible growth. when trump was president we were a republican senate and republican house and produced lowest unemployment in 50 years. produced the lowest african

american unemployment ever recorded and lowest hispanic employment recorded. where do i want my revenue? >> more people getting jobs -- >> becomes more complicated. look, absolutely true during the trump administration revenue grew and our economy grew exceptionally. >> right. >> it's also true that after the financial crisis of 2008, there was a struggle period of, call it, eight years. it is unclear whether you would ask been able to get that kind of revenue had you put some of these policies in place in 2009, '10, '11 or '12. meaning you needed to get the economy back to some -- an argument to be made a period of time where the economy was getting its sea legs and just so happened from a timing perceptive, trump gets in office, puts these policies in place and helped supercharge it. i don't think anyone dismissed that. in terms how you measure what

happened in reality. >> that's how i see the whole obama administration. >> that point, joe, interesting. you work in finance. i work in politics. you just described, andrew, a struggle period from 2008 to 2016, and my immediate reaction is where joe went. gosh, who was in the white house? barack obama and -- >> the struggle period, because of a whole number of steps that happened -- by the way, back into clinton's era and talk about george bush's period of time. >> and on -- >> who was on the job and on the clock during the financial crisis? >> what we do, housing market all democrats and -- >> why i said, go back and talk about all sorts of things. >> if you really want to know what happened, is ronald reagan came in in 1980 and we took off since then and then the cold war -- >> and starting spending more money. talk about government spending. >> know why? >> during that -- >> for the cold war. it costs money to save the world and usher in --

>> and that's -- >> figure, worth it. some things are worth it! senator, thank you. >> and at least let's be honest what happened? >> and had to build up the military. it's not "star wars." >> senator cruz, thank you. >> this is fun. i will say this, policies have consequences. it's not just an accident that when barack obama was there we had economic stagnation. when barack obama was in office, we had high taxes and job-killing regulations. joe biden and kamala harris in hoffs, high taxes, and job-killing regulations's four years spending trillions we don't have produced the inflation we have. on the other hand, when you have -- you have republicans hopefully, not always. >> and kamala harris policies, one of trump's anyways. >> she is pretending -- >> bernie said don't worry about what she's saying everyone knows

she's not telling the truth and going to be the same hard left vote since arriving in the senate. >> good luck in texas. i -- i can't imagine it would be a -- texas without cruz? could there be? >> two polls sewing a two-point race. chuck schumer number one target in the country spending over $100 million in the race. folks at home go to tedcruz.com i need the help. >> you would say, did say? >> tedcruz.org. say at the chicago -- >> still going on. saw you at tennis. your last -- >> the chicago dnc convention, when my democrat opponent spoke for a couple of minutes the entire stadium spontaneous began chanting "beat ted cruz." 20,000 democrats. the only one who got that treatment, pretty proud of that and raised $1 million in 24

hours. if you're a hard partisan democrat, after trump, the person you most want to beat is me. >> seat at the u.s. open, paulson. treasury secretary? >> very strong point. see it easily. >> and when paul paulsen run for president again? thank you. see you later. and jeff blau coming up. and a key union. a strike could still happen. details on that straight aadhe. all of that and more as "squawk box" rolls on this morning. thank you. ♪ ♪

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striking a labor deal with a union that represents tens of thousands of its workers. phil lebeau has more on that front. >> becky, got a tentative deal done and now can they get it

across the finish line? the agreement reached between the machinist union and boeing over the weekend. it's a 25% pay hike over the next four years. 33% when you add in job progression within the union. cost of living adjustments there. lower medical costs. regular 401(k). the important point. the next plane boeing develops and builds will be in the seattle area. committing to that. and the union recommends approval. doesn't mean it's going to get across the finish line. if you look at this in the 33,000 members of the machinist union voting, keep in mind that there's still strong feelings from a 4% pay raise over the life of the contract for the previous deal. a lot of the members are not happy with that. feel like things have been shoved down their throat. we'll find out when they vote thursday. again, 33,000 will vote. for stephanie pope, coo and head of commercial airplanes, a big

deal if she can get it finalized. put out a note yesterday saying will build boeing's next new airplane along with our other flagship models meaning job security for generations to come. yes, that is true. getting that new airplane built in seattle is a big deal and this would be a huge deal for new boeing ceo kelly ortberg. it would take a major question mark off the table especially when if they can get this ratified first vote and that strike. look at shares of boeing, keep in mind the cost of this will be about $9 million. the estimate from jefferies. ship saying, look, could be more than a billion annually, a cost headwind. sheila as $9 million annually on the cost side. bed out on thursday when the vote takes place, late thursday night pacific time we'll get results. back to you. >> so just watching from the sidelines on this. seems like this is probably a

pretty good offer. they've probably made about as much as they could afford to possibly do, if talking about $900 million in headwinds facing as a result. if it doesn't pass, then what? >> then they go back to the negotiating table. look, there are going to be some members who have heard the number 40%. that has been thrown out there for some time, because they looked atwhat the uaw has bun, other contracts. look, those guys getting close to 40%, maybe 35%. whatever it might be's that number is in the mind of a lot of rank and file workers. they see 25%, and they look at that and go, hmm. okay. is that what i was thinking i was going to get? yes. back to the negotiating table, if thevote is "no". >> phil, thank you. >> you bet. coming up, commerce secretary gina raimondo joins us. next, a deep dive into the state of the real estate market with

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welcome back to "squawk box." talking about the state of the real estate market and the

bringing someone intimately involved. ceo jeff blau. a lot of questions where we really are in the real estate world. how distressed stuff is getting. are we at a bottom? what's going on, and you're at the center of it. i'll start. where are we? >> first of all thank you for having me. always good to be here. it's hard to answer that question in a general sense, because the real estate market, penal say, oh, the real estate market is a disaster. it's coming back. it's segmented by asset types pup have to think about how are apartments doing? offices? which everybody wants to talk about. data centers, industrial, all of these different asset classes's most asset classes across the real estate industry are performing extremely well today. >> multifamily. >> doing great. >> data centers, chill. >> data centers one of the best asset classes and offices are struggling. right now there is a supply/demand imbalance in office and already you has been

value and will continue to be real value destruction in older office buildings. they're just -- people don't want to occupy them. people, back-to-office issue. >> on a relative basis for your business how big is the data center component versus multifamily component versus the office component? >> right. historically, our business began in affordable housing and multifamily. a huge portion of our business across the country is multifamily. we actually have one of the largest private owners of affordable housing in the united states. we are very focused on multifamily. it's been our core and we continue to build and own and do affordable housing preservation in that space. data centers are new. for us. i think it's the most incredible asset class ever seen in my career in real estate. >> is there a bubble in the data center giving valuations? >> we all watch reports for the big tech companies.

what's capital spending in the following years? this asset class is unique for real estate. each one of these buildings could cost $4 billion, $5 billion. you're talking about power numbering that we've never encountered in the real estate business. 100 megawatts. up 500 megawatts. those buildings, amazing about them, power, as difficult as it is to get, becomes the constraint to new developments. you don't have oversupply of these data centers. for the most part of built leased to one of the big hyperscaled tech companies. for us it's been a great opportunity. you may have seen this past week we invested in a small company, applied digital. >> right. >> building a very large data center in north dakota. but we'll be building in chicago, north dakota, santa clara. so there's a couple of big data centers. in chicago, the state of illinois and federal government

committed $500 million to bring a quantum computing company to illinois called psi quantum. we will build the fastest campus, build the fastest computing computer in the world. then at 500 mega watt data center attached to that. >> and then the office. >> then there's the office. >> can you repurpose some of the office into becoming a data center? >> hmm. >> help you? >> not really. >> energy issues? >> yeah. the office is really a tale of two cities. talked about this. new buildings are doing great. hudson yards, 100% leased. any space comes up is gobbled up in a short period of time, highest rents ever achieved. new buildings are terrific, and demand is great. older buildings are very, very difficult to lease. we could be leasing space at $200 a foot in our building. go across the street and attempt to lease for $50, but no tenants that want them.

so whether they'll be repurposed or torn down, which is actually what i think the better solution is. >> you think a lot of tear-downs around the city? >> a lot of tear-downs of buildings and a lot of equity lost and cnbs gets in trouble. overleveraged and no demand. >> what about people back at the office? seems almost an old question from a bygone era except it's not completely, we haven't completely shifted back yet? >> back to school. september. >> right. >> so end of summer always slow. even pre-covid, pre-work from home days. now we're seeing, and what we saw before the summer is basically mid-week get to about 80%. at the hudson yard, new buildings, not just subs and -- the rest of the city averages around 55, 60% in the kind of broader older buildings. i think somewhere between those two is where this settles out. i think even before the

work-from-home trend, the offices weren't 100% full anyway. fridays a slower day always. people travel. i think if we get back to the 70s-ish percent range across the board, i think that's where it will stabilize. >> waiting to hear what the fed will say september 18th. i'm sure you're waiting's what do you think they're going to say? i imagine i know what you want them to say. 50 basis points over 25. >> real estate hopes 50. just announcements from invest side of real estate. already seeing transactions up. values are ticking up again. we call them cap rates. cap rates are down. i think just the announcement of rate cuts and whether it's 25 now or 50 now and a series that happens over the next year, i think greatly benefit the real estate industry. >> casino in new york. >> yeah. >> what do you think's going to happen here?

>> so the state of new york -- >> are we really going to get one? >> we're going to get one. >> a good thing for the city? >> good for the city in terms of economic development, tourism, attracting people to new york continuing to make it the incredibly vibrant city it is. >> you and others vying for this? >> three gaming licences issued by the state of new york. four upstate. three downstate. the time frame now is a june rfp response in a december 25 decision date. we partered with wynn resorts from las vegas. we thought about expanding hudson yards to the west side of 11th avenue from 11th avenue to the river, we thought, if we're going to bid on one of these licences we needed the best partner, the most qualified, highest end and met with every operator through the world and wynn became our partner and ran a similar process, chose us. i think we have the best site. the largest development.

we'll have a resort, 1,700 hotel rooms 25 restaurants. another 2 million square-foot office building we will start and 1 million square-foot residential building. 6 acre park, public school. all taken together a $12 billion investment in new york city. >> for this to work how upscale could it ultimately be? you see wynn hotel being upscale. for the business tour, if you will, has to bring in folks of all stripes? >> i think if you look at the wynn demographic across all of its resorts, they've always positioned themselves at highest end of the market. doesn't mean there's not something for everybody. but you compare it to some of the slot houses that exist now in new york city, that are really preying on kind of affordable people that you don't really, shouldn't be betting their last dollar. that's not what wynn is about.

so we think they're a great partner, a great culture. the way they treat too employees, invest in communities i think will make the best opportunity for new york. >> jeff blau, thanks for coming in. appreciate it. up next, an interview you don't want to miss with commerce secretary gina raimondo. hi! "squawk box" will be right back. she switched careers to make money for your weddings. ooh! penny stocks are blowing up. sweetie, grab your piggy bank, we're going all in. let me ask you. for your wedding, do you want a gazebo and a river? uh, i don't... what's a gazebo? something that your mother always wanted and never got. or...you could give these different investment options a shot. the right money moves aren't as aggressive as you think. i'm keeping the vest.

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welcome back to "squawk box." tomorrow night former president trump and vice president kamala harris debating first and perhaps only time them election cycle. an joining us, gejei gina raimo. commerce secretary. joining us in a personal capacity. tomorrow evening, i don't know if there's a scorecard but is

there something in particular we all should be noting? >> good morning. thanks for having me. i think what we should know is overall you will see a vice president harris who's a woman of -- she's a practical problem-solver just wraunants tt the job done and she's crystal clear that her vision is one where everybody in america has opportunity. and so what that means is, you know, she's going to have a tax policy that helps workers and businesses, that's fair. she will talk about investments in what helps the american people, and she's incredibly practical. what you'll see on the other side is a former president trump who is -- you know, chaotic, will govern based upon his mood at the moment. his anger, and, you know, i think as a former businessperson, former governor, his economic proposals are

really disastrous. like, if i were a businessperson, and i heard a 20% tariff on every import, and i watched him be so erratic and unpredictable, i think that's scary. every businessperson deserves predictability and erratic and unpredictable, i think that's scary. every business person deserves predictability, so i think that's what i would be watching for and i'd be looking to see the vice president advance who she is. pro-worker and pro-business at the same time. a collaborative problem solver. >> you talked about predictability, one of the problems we've had at the table since the vice president has been the nominee is what the predictability is going to be as it relates to the details of her programs, which i think are still e more fous, if you will, in terms of what they really are. i think we don't really know. we had a debate last week a little bit with mark cuban,

who's been having some back channel conversations with the harris campaign, he's hearing certain things. we haven't heard all of them publically. how much detail on all of these plans do you believe, whether it's the former president or harris, do you think the american people deserve before they go to the polls recognizing i's not just going to the polls physically in november, in some states you're able to mail in now effec now effectively so you want the voters to know as much as humanly possible. >> at the end of the day i think kamala harris is being honest. she knows she has to work with congress. trump can throw out whatever he says about this tax policy, that tax policy. you have to get in and work with congress. i don't think the american public are interested in the minutia of mechanism on how

she'll increase taxes on billionaires. >> you don't? >> i don't. >> i would assume there's not that many billionaires in the world i recognize that and there are people that say get out your smallest violins for the b billionaires but if you are a billionaire, you want to know how you're going to be impacted. >> here's what's clear, trump wants to cut taxes on billionaires and on corporations who don't need it. it'll balloon the deficit and the average american worker will pay. . the kamala harris has been clear, billionaires need to pay more. it's wrong that a schoolteacher, truck driver, pays a higher rate than a billionaire. and she said she will fix it. the american public doesn't have time to study tax code. they want to know there's somebody in the oval office fighting for them.

she will raise taxes on billionaires, she more than everyone i talked to running for president and admittedly i have a small sample, she talks about innovation, she's obsessed with increasing innovation, helping startups, small businesses and obsessed with making the wealthy and billionaires and big corporations pay more. >> this is where they connect. one of the ideas around the -- this question about taxing unrealized gains on a wealth tax goes back and relates, oddly enough, to startups. i think there are folks in the valley who have been asking questions about how a program like that would ultimately work. >> right. but again, what has she said? she's broken with president biden to say she wants to lower capital gains below 30%. that took a bit of courage for her to break with the current president but she said, you know, that's american. americans strike out, take risks, start businesses and she

said let's reward that. she's giving a big tax cut to small businesses. i think -- and she's giving a big tax cuts to families because she knows how expensive it is to have kids and care for children. so i think she's been crystal clear on her values, what she wants to fight for and how she will do it, and also, you know, she talks to people, right. she's reaching out to me, to businesses -- >> she hasn't talked to the press, gina. i know i -- i know you're a surrogate but the american people are frustrated, the media is fraus frustrated about the a. she sat down for one interview that was taped but it's a master class in avoiding any questions and nothing has been made clear by her. maybe in drips and trdrabs from

policy makers. but she's been impossible to pin down on anything because she hasn't given any access. the american people deserve it. wouldn't you agree? >> yes. and i -- you know, i hear you, but i respectfully disagree. this is a presidential election like no other. she only has a few weeks to do everything. and she's spending her time talking to americans. she has a punishing schedule out and about everywhere being with the people who she wants to elect her. look, tomorrow night it will be on display. it biel a robust debate. i guess from where i see it and where i am still in my old old as a governor or pryior tho thai ran a business. i see in her someone who's been clear about her desire to help businesses and small businesses, she talks about being pro

business, pro worker at the same time. and i just see in donald trump somebody who governs with great unpredictability. he wakes up, angry on a sector and will lash out on them. i also think his tariffs are destabilizing. americans can't afford it, businesses can't afford it. i think it's clear w'sho better on the economy. >> it's a longer conversation we hope to have you back soon we'll watch the debate and i'm sure we'll talk to you after it. we're coming right back after this. es, groceries, rent. it really helped close that gap. (whisper) go, go, go! (group) yay! go aflac! go duck! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. find an agent. get a quote at aflac.com. wish we had aflac on our team. you can! (♪♪)

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is that tomorrow? >> tomorrow it is. >> final check on the markets. up 267 points now. that's about where we were, stable throughout the entire three hour show up 143 now on the nasdaq. the s&p up 38. where is that tomorrow?

>> the big debate where i'm headed? >> yeah. >> i'm going to l.a. with a big game plan board room -- >> again. >> -- cnbc extravaganza, it's going to be something we have everybody from kevin durant. evan spiegel, it's going to be a big one. then we have the big debate tomorrow night and i'll see you wednesday morning. >> wednesday morning. >> yes, sir. bright and early. >> not enough sleep. make sure you join us tomorrow, "squawk on the street" is next. ♪ good morning, good monday morning as well. welcome to "squawk on the street" i'm david faber with jim c cramer. let's give you a look at the futures, you heard joe and andrew talking about the markets of course. looked like we're going to be up jim -- i was out last week but