its way. it's tuesday, september 10th, 2024 and "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody and welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. we are live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. andrew is on assignment today. we will hear more from him about what he is doing out in l.a. let's look at the u.s. equity futures. you see modest declines. dow down 13 points. nasdaq off over 50 points. yesterday we saw positive gains in the morning futures and that built through the session. markets had their first positive day of the month. s&p 500 with the best since august. it snapped a four-day losing

streak. the dow was up by nearly 500 points. that was its best session since august 23th. same story for the nasdaq. it was also up better than 1%. that was largely because of the pop in nvidia shares. we'll continue to keep an eye on that. for the year, nasdaq is up 22%. if you look at where the treasury market stands, the ten-year at 3.7%. the two-year below it at 3.68%. a lot of concern of the drop in crude prices. there are some traders out there suggesting this is kind of pricing in for at least a mild recession in the united states. you can see right now crude oil down another 1.4% to $67.75. >> i cannot believe we're talking about this same case. >> i had to look into the details, too. 2016 and 2017. ireland. i remember it. i remember it well.

it's still breaking news and at least ten years ago. a couple hours ago, europe's top court ruled against apple in the ten-year court battle in the tax bill in ireland. in 2015, ireland opens an investigation into the tax payments in ireland. the headquarters in the eu. in 2016, the commission ordered the country to recover $14.4 billion in back taxes from the tech giant saying apple had received illegal tax benefits from ireland over the course of two decades. ireland's corporate tax rate was down in the low teens. >> it was trying to attract technology companies. >> apple says it is disappointed with the ruling. i don't know if it's the end or not, but after ten years, how much money is that to apple at this point?

a real number, obviously. >> what happens with that? >> i don't know. i don't know how -- >> do they have it in escrow in the meantime? does it go through? i got a note from new jersey that said i underpaid in 2021. >> a phone call? >> no, no, no. an actual letter. >> i definitely underpaid. they tell me where i need to send it. i keep trying to send them the money and i can't find the address. >> i can provide an account for you. no, it was my fault. i talked to my accountant. it was small. the fines on top of it are huge. i guess it's not the case here because it was a dispute going back and forth so maybe you are not racking up fines. i can only imagine. >> they don't even -- you don't want -- becky quick might be someone different from rebecca qu quick. >> i paid it yesterday immediately. it was brought to my attention and i paid it immediately.

i'm not going to argue with them over it. >> no, no, you're not. when they really start getting active. >> i want them to get active because they are going to go after other people, too. this is minor. i pay everything that's out there. every single bill. >> ask not for whom the bell t tolls. >> the announcement comes a day after apple launched iphone 16 and iphone pro. it is built from the ground up, but intel features will not be available until the beta version is rolled out next month. we will speak with an analyst in a few minutes about the products. i have to say the cool commercial they have touting everything this thing can do. i don't know if you watched it. i want it. i haven't gotten a new phone in a while. this looks like it's got a lot

of great things. >> like what? >> the camera itself and the a.i. teephi features. it has better battery life. those two things alone are enough. the prospect of what a.i. might be able to do for you in writing emails and do some things and get it through. by the way, i have an old phone. i haven't updated in a while. >> i don't know what mine is. >> mine's an 11. i got to go look inside and find it. >> you think it's enough? so much better and cause people to get it? >> i think it is the promise of what is so much better. the battery and like camera alone on enough to suck me into it. the other thing is people have not upgraded. it has been a long time people have seen upgrades. >> mine is not old. i recently got a new case. silicon case eventually wears out a little.

my battery health is my main issue i have and i think it goes very quickly. my battery health is all the way down already to 85 maximum capacity. >> you need a new one. >> i don't need a new one. >> it's a pain. >> it goes down pretty fast. when it's brand new, it's amazing. oh, my god. >> it lesser asts three days. >> yeah. >> a couple of other things they talked about that were interesting. the apple watch will have a bigger -- a bigger screen so you can do more on it. it will be able to detect sleep ap apnea. >> i know i have sleep apnea. >> the airpods will eventually be able to turn into hearing aid devices. i'm on board with those features, too. >> oh, my god. >> the apple health push. i think that's cool. >> that is really g. the other thing is really good?

lose weight. >> i got good news yesterday. >> or get an apple watch. >> if you are 6'1" and my age, which we won't go into, do you know what your maximum -- the best weight you should weigh is? >> 163 pounds. >> right in the center. 144, which would make people worry about me. 144 to 185. so, i'm down 20 already and i'm supposed to get another -- just to get to the high end, i need another 17 pounds. >> seriously? >> yeah. i don't think i'd look good. >> that sounds like you would be emaciated. >> to get to the bmi of 20. >> what about bmi of 22 is okay? >> bmi of 22 would be okay. everything? go down the list. pre-diabetes and asthma and high

blood priessure and sleep apnea and everything in the world goes away. >> that is why ozempic is an amazing drug. >> a lot of people should be paying. you know who you are rob. oracle shares trading higher -- you're a grandfather. >> congratulations. >> congratulations. >> congratulations. i can't believe it. you're 37. that's so weird. >> the math works out. by the way, beautiful baby girl. congratulations. >> you already had white hair. you can't blame it on worrying. >> that's because of you. >> that's me doing what i'm doing. >> the other big baby. >> this morning after tech giant reported better than expected quarterly profits, artificial

intelligence demanded continues to help the cloud computing business boost earnings and our wealth editor robert frank points out oracle shares, the price jump allowed larry ellison to add over $13 billion to his net worth. that $13 billion is more than two times what he and his son are paying for paramount. bank capital requirements to protect the nation's financial system from than expected losses and shocks could be cut in half. the biggest u.s. banks would face a 9% increase in requirements. that is down from the 19% plan required for from the office of the comptroller. regulators agreed to sweeping changes to the proposed pack an acknowledge of rules. fed vice chair michael barr

plans to preview the changes in the speech today. we will have more later this hour with leslie picker. this is something the banks in a pretty rare form spoke up pretty -- very vociferously. it would hurt the competition and the banks and ability to lend and hurt us in the long term. this is what you see. i wonder what they think about the 9% increase as well. goldman sachs ceo david solomon giving investors a note of caution yesterday. goldman will post a $400 million pre-tax hit as it unloads its gm credit card business. solomon warned trading revenue will fall around 10% in the quarter and what he said was a challenging macro environment particularly in the month of august.

analysts had estimated a 6.6% decline in the trading unit. that's a little bit more than that. stock, meanwhile, is up more than 25%, year to date. this is you. norfolk southern. >> that story continues as wealth. this is a fall up to the story we brought you yesterday. the wall street journal reporting that ceo alan shaw could depart this week. the board was conducting an investigation into the alleged relationship he had with an employee at the company and hired an outside law firm to con ti conduct the investigation. nothing like a rocket launch this morning. polaris dawn. >> it was when cnbc.com.

when they wanted us to write stuff for dot-com. >> we had different people. just by definition, we had a lot of different people over 35 years who have been in charge. lifting off a short time ago from the kennedy space center in florida. the spacex crew dragon on board a falcon 9 rocket carrying private astronauts. they will use spacex designed suits to attempt the first all civilian spacewalk. they will undertake a number of sp experiments and tests on the communication system and perform sighcientific research on the spacewalk. the crew is going 870 miles above the earth's surveys.

t surface. first civilian spacewalk and highest civilian spacewalk. i forgot to be nervous because it was last week where they tried a couple of times to do this. we talked about how at this point there's been a lot of spacex launches and polaris launches. >> the former astronaut mike massimino said anytime you do a spacewalk, it is heightened tensions. >> our space suits were not comp compatible. mike was definitely a xxl. big and tall man. >> tall man. >> he's a monster. if it were him, he would be very excited. >> he was. he said he was really looking forward to it. >> even if he was going, he would still be excited.

>> not so much for you and i. >> no, no, no, no. not going to do it. >> it was impressive. cool to see. i want to mention james earl jones passing away yesterday at the age of 93. >> i noted that. i noted the coverage. he was great. i just couldn't help watching the different networks cover it because one network talked about how he was the voice of their network over and over and over and over again which i immediately thought of because we all think of -- >> this is cnn. >> exactly. i didn't watch it all day long. the first couple of times. no mention of that. i don't know why. he was -- what was he? da darth vader. >> darth vader more than

anything. the second thing that pops in my head was cnn. i was a "star wars" fan. >> it was just funny for another network not to even mention it. >> it was darth vader. >> he did voiceover. >> and "field of dreams." there's the "field of dreams." >> that shows you the state of the current news industry. you can't breathe the other network's name. >> i saw him on letterman one time where james earl jones showed up and downtoid the top things. the top ten things he could say that would be amazing. >> harrison ford. he died in that and harrison ford. >> he was very upset. >> exactly. >> he also had the egot. emmy, grammy, oscar and tony. one of the very few actors who

did all of those. >> right. the actress. >> the one who was on "sesame street." >> yes. >> rita moreno. >> yeah. hence the age issues. when we come back, apple unveils a new iphone with a new a.i. boost. the eu throwing cold water on the party this morning. we will talk about what this all means for investors. you see the stock right now down 1.2%. also, vice president kamala harris and former president trump get ready to debate tonight. we will talk to former commerce secretary wilbur ross. "squawk box" will be right back. >> announcer: "squawk box" is sponsored by vaneck.

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the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. i"soulmates." soulmate! [giggles] why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet. and now his attention is spent elsewhere.

but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. apple introducing a new generation of iphones with the focus of integrating a.i. into the operating system. this morning, the eu ruling against the tech giant in a ten-year court battle in ireland. joining us is the bank of america analyst. let's start with the eu tax situation which has been going

on since 2014. we all kind of remember what happened. i forgot it was still out there and this could actually come back and bite them. you are talking $14 billion in taxes. what do you think of the situation? >> yeah, thanks for having me. good morning, becky. i think it is obviously an unfortunate ruling from the apple standpoint and it has been in court a long time. let's put it in context for investors. $14 billion of cash, essentially, that already is escrowed and put away just in case this eventuality would occur. when you think about it in terms of apple's free cash flow, we're talking $14 billion off what they generate $100 million annually. less than two months of cash flow impacted. you think of apple as an investment, this is more noise than anything else. it is unfortunate. they fought it for a long time and $14 billion to be put to other use. in the same time as apple as the

even investment in the long run. >> i would notice that if it was my bottom line. >> sure. for one year? yes, absolutely. when you think about apple's ability and this is where apple is unique and do you this every year. it does take away $14 billion and not to say that is mis minuscule, but in the valuation perspective, but when you have $15 billion in shares, you are talking $1 per share. it is unfortunate. obviously, this is not the outcome apple wanted, but when you think of the upside and how much of earnings could come through in the next several years, i would say this is more of a blip and nuance rather than something that changes the investor's minds. >> i can understand a one-off, but it seems like the eu is looking at this and realizing

that apple and others are doing this per year and looking for a bigger bite of the apple, so to speak, and continue to come after companies like google and a few others. is the eu and the way they look at our big tech companies a problem for apple or any of the other companies that you cover? >> absolutely. look, the eu is actually fairly difficult to deal with the eu. we talk about china all the time and we talk about the eu all the time. in china, when you set the rule, it's the rule as you follow it and you are in compliance and there's no question around it. the eu, there have been many instances where the eu said let's go ahead and do this and apple goes ahead and implements something and you come back and say we have other companies complaining about it. this is the case in eu and services business where it feels like a moving goal post. now you're taxing innovation and actually preventing eu consumers

from getting access to the latest and greatest features. for example, apple intelligence is not rolled out right away. you will deploy and find out you are not in compliance and try to work out and find solutions. it is definitely a problem. it is a problem that is hard to overcome because you don't know what exactly the rules are and the moving goal post makes it hard to deal with the eu. >> i was impressed with the new phone they rolled out. iphone 16. what about you? >> look, i think, becky, everything is more or less as people had expected on the iphone 16. i think with apple, when you look at the ecosystem, right, there were so many announcements that made the ecosystem tighter. it is about drawing more in the

install base. all of the services that we are talking about will be consumed on the large install base of devices. you want to give people a reason to upgrade. we think we have that. it will be stronger next year. this year with visual intelligence and iphone 16 with the camera button and a lot of interesting cool updates based on the context of what you are looking at and i think that's compelling. this is something that is tangible from the user perspective. others will want it. it is a feature which is quite compelling and smart way to drive upgrades. again, when you think about this in the context of two or three years with increased hardware and deeper integration with siri and over time, when you think about how we interface with the device, we're actually going to change the way we interface with the device where it will be more talking and speaking with the device rather than going into the phone and selecting an app which gives apple more control.

this is the key thing that i think apple intelligence does. it puts apple in a more of a pole position to decide where some of this traffic is going. for instance, if you are at the airport and you want to book an uber, you can say book me a ride. siri could determine who the ride could go to and apple could get compensated for it. they are opening up another layer of monetization that people are not talking about. from the apple perspeperspectiv think it is interesting with the notion of apple twintelligence game changing for the next several years. >> okay. wamsi, thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> 14. >> maybe mine's a 14. >> i fiound out how you do it. we'll be talking agent 99? >> we have been there for a

while with the dick -- >> pardon me? >> dick tracy and the iphone. >> no chortling. coming up, nvidia shares with the -- agent 99. the company's earnings report. i loved her as a little boy. i had a thing for her. barbara feldon? >> no. see that? that's like the gap in my health insurance. gap in your health insurance? yeah, it didn't cover everything when i got hurt. good thing i had aflac. (aflac duck) hmmm the cash i got from aflac helped pay for medical expenses,

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expected to speak at the conference tomorrow at 10:20 a.m. eastern time. investors are looking for more details about costs surrounding the company's next generation chips. the reason i'm smiling is what i'm coming up to thinking about l elizabeth warren. hinted that gross margins to be coming down to the 70s. stocks are down from the recent high, but up more than 130% from the past year. remember the grocery chain margins are 1.5% to 2%. coming down into the mid-70s. >> alert. alert. >> get on that, liz. when we come back, new bank rules could be headed to the financial sector and regulators may be scaling down a major requirement. also, how to turn horror

into b oicoxffe bucks. we're going to be sitting down with the ceo of jason blum. he will tell us about his formula for success. he's a lot of fun. i'm looking forward to this. we'll be right back. oh, thank you so much i couldn't have done it without you. >> announcer: executive edge is sponsored by at&t business. next level moments need the next level network. it's super-fast so, any pre-launch concerns? what if nobody buys them? that's mean or, what if everybody buys them? oh, i hadn't thought of that that's probably not gonna happen can we handle that kind of traffic? the network can handle it! i downloaded eight hours of true crime stories just during our last video call i'm learning a lot ♪(voya)♪ there are some things that work better together. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. voya helps you choose the right amounts without over or under investing. across all your benefits and savings options.

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the federal reserve and other regulators scaling back plans for the capital requirements for the banks in the united states. leslie picker is joining us with more. >> becky, this has been a long time coming and about three and a half hours we will hear from vice chair michael barr who is expected to review a proposal and explain the next steps. the remarks come highly anticipated after the bbasel ii. this would hold more capital which would crimp lending and

drive up costs for businesses and push business outside the regulated system and abroad. bloomberg reporting that the sweeping changes for the eight biggest banks would comprise a 9% hike in capital down from 19% in the original proposal. that report cited people familiar with the matter that the fed declined to comment to cnbc. jpmorgan and wells fargo and citigroup among those that traded higher last night on the headlines. industry watchers will be focused on what barr says about the process. will regulators opt for the reproposal. that would take longer beyond the presidential election which depending on wheto wins could im p imperil the rules entirely. guys. >> they lobbied hard against the initial capital requirements.

>> that's the big question, becky. i know there last been dialogue between the two sides as the rules were getting thought out. powell meeting with the larger bank ceos has been an ongoing through. whether they are satisfied with the halving of the capital requirements remains to be seen. wells fargo noted not necessarily the banks will be satisfied, but the question is will they continue to fight thi prope process. do they re-propose or put it out for a significant comment period? a 60-day comment foperiod? a lot of questions and we hope to get clarity later. >> thanks, leslie. coming up, the candidates are getting ready to face-off in the debate tonight with vice president kamala harris and former president trump

it starts at 9:00 p.m. eastern time it's in philadelphia we'll talk to former president trump's commerce secretary wilbur ross before he was that he had a 55-year career. we knew him so well on cnbc prior to joining the administration in know a lot about a lot of thgs the economy, trade, turn arounds, debt financing, on and on wilbur ross will join us next. as he does his kids. and when he invests... nothing beats service with a smile. [narrator] this is tessa carter. culinary connoisseur. knows her ingredients like the back of her hand. same goes for her investments. so, i expect total transparency. lose the cilantro. [staff] yes chef! [narrator] say hello to peter armstead. type a cpa. he always knows exactly where his clients' money is going. so, of course, i expect the same with my money.

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we're -- our next guest gives us an inside view of the presi president race we have wilbur ross. his new book is out today. "risks and returns." thanks for joining us, wilbur. looking quickly. i've known you for so long and you have been coming on "squawk box" and on wall street for 55 years. >> i think i was on your first show. >> 35 years? 30 years 1995 about 30 years we've watched you come in and get called in emergency situations and corporate

bankruptcy situations. i think what formulated your career when mike milken invested high yield financing, it changed in a positive way. >> it did. strangely, that's really what started my career and then later, i represented the unsecured creditors in the drexel bankruptcy. drexel was the most profitable wall street firm, $500 million to taxes, to bust in two years, when the junk bond market collapsed. >> and i've looked back and tried to figure that out was it the government's fault that drexel collapsed or did they bring it on themselves? >> it was a number of things bad economic environment and rates gone up and drexel had been losing market share

in the early days, they had a 70 plus market share and down to 40% later on that's still pretty darn good, 40%, but it means you're down almost half from where you were. >> i do remember, i've always thought that park -- compared to what ivan was involved with and the stuff that mike did. he was parking stock and doing a couple of things it looked like the government wanted to get drexel and they finally did. >> sure. >> talk about, because we love to have you on here and we could do an episodic interview we have competing economic visions. you will still, i guess, offer an ardent defense of the trump economic plan that he had in 2016 and the results as well >> oh, sabsolutely it was interesting toward the end of our administration, when business leaders would come in to see me, they were more

grateful for regulatory relief than they were even for the tax relief because when you have regulatory relief, you can plan and you can make capital expenditures businesses can deal with discuss and deal with failure. uncertainty is very, very difficult for it to deal with. >> i watched you last night on, you know, for me, anyway, the show of record during the day. bret baier the show did not mention james earl jones doing voiceover for the other network. he gave an answer for not varnished for tariffs, but in certain cases, you can say it is the last resort and it cannot flow directly into a tax on u.s. consumers? >> no, it's not for several reasons. number one, the government that

has been sending us the junk material, the government picks up the extra tariff we put in. >> the other government? >> yeah. the other government they eat part of it. >> they eat part of it. >> second, let's say it's a tariff on china and 20% on chinese goods. that doesn't mean prices will go up 20% what will happen, supply will come from the next cheapest supplier -- >> in a different part of the world. >> different part of the world >> netherlands >> 2% or 5%. all of this stuff is automated which is a tax on consumers is not the way it works. >> if that's the case, if the product is going to come from elsewhere and the tariffs are not great on consumers, how do

you explain the sovereign wealth fund that exists from the tariffs that will do everything to balance the budget and par pay for child care for every american it doesn't make sense. >> it comes from money that were earned before. that's where the capital and sovereign wealth fund comes from in the case of the gulf countries, from oil. >> from here in the united states, when we proposed the idea or donald trump proposes the idea of the sovereign wealth fund and now democrats are looking at, too. i don't understand where you ge the funding from that. >> everybody is looking for a silver bullet that solves all the problems painlessly. >> correct it seems like i heard somebody say it this morning this is like the oprah election how much can you give away you get a car. >> the silver bullets went away

with the lone ranger and tonto, the cowboy and indian shows. it would have to be appropriated nsh initially, i would think there is no other source you could dedicate a revenue source if you put a big tariff, you could say those tariffs will be applied directly to the sovereign wealth fund and not go for other purposes. >> it would come from suchu.s. consumers, would it is not. >> it has to come from somewhere. i suppose the federal reserve, since it has the power to create money, i guess they could create money. >> that's all we need. so, back to the tariff issue lighthizer, you worked with him. >> oh, sure. he's a good friend of mine we put out a book party for him.

>> still have a huge influence into former president trump's thinking both sides oh, yeah, either side. they don't mean it and it won't happen once oeither gets into office how much is the tariffs across the board? how much of it would be implied? lighthizer would like a lot of tariffs. >> you have to remember that donald trump speaks in metaphors. he talks in giant tariffs, which he did in the first administration as well, what he really means is i'm going to be very tough on the foreign companies. i'm going to be very tough on their subsidized exports you shouldn't take it all that literally because he likes to use slogans as do all pol

politicians that convey a messages in talking about jgigantic tarif on everything sends a message. >> what type of contrast do you see with the economic policies do you think that vice president harris is going to stand by the idea of taxing unrealized gains? >> well, i think there are a lot of things that are wildly different between the two. the democratic program seems to be pour money into the hands of people who don't have income otherwise and they have the highest propensity to consume and to buy goods i believe that that infusion of billions and billions of dollars, maybe trillions, as a result of covid, is really what led to the inflation because that money goes into the pocket and goes right out again whereas, if you take the same

funds that were appropriated, but you build a factory or add to some sort of production, now you have a supply coming in that could offset the demand created by the funds coming the other, wilbert, with the chips act and the green new deal, and the ira should have been called in the first place >> i was the originator to get the chips bill passed and it ultimately sent a letter to every republican in the congress that even though the democrats loaded it up with a zillion things that had nothing to do with chips remember, that bill came out at $500 billion we only asked for 50 50 is what they actually gave for c.h.i.p.s. the other 450 had nothing whatsoever to do with chips, but i felt on a national security

basis, it's crazy for us to be that dependent on anybody outside, particularly on people who might want to do us harm >> you made it all four years. one of the other talking points that is almost ubiquitous is how many former trump officials say they wouldn't work with him again. how do you see that? do you just go, wow, i understand that -- you said earlier, he speaks in metaphors and maybe don't take him literally just take him seriously. would that be your answer? >> no, roll back the clock when trump was elected he didn't have a big cadre from people before, people experienced in government a number of the early appointees

were people that were not trumpers, but they were anti-trump policies, particularly in the trade area, so there were mistakes made because he didn't have an infrastructure now he's gotten to know a lot of people in government and out of government and knows how the government works, so i don't think you will see anything like a replay of the turnover if he gets another administration. it won't be anything like the first time >> if you were a single-issue voter, free trade, who would be your candidate >> free trade? i don't believe there is such a thing. it's like a unicorn -- >> well, free trade -- >> probably singapore. >> of the two candidates

>> well, well, the successor continues the policy we had and she's even gone a little further than we did, so i don't think the democrats are at all opposed to being tough on the bad people who are selling things -- >> did you bring my copy of the book >> huh >> your book are you kidding me i am sure a lot of people can learn, and you say people think people want to walk in to wall street and be a success -- >> yeah, there have been pubump along the road >> yeah, since i did face a lot of adversities from time to time, the real message of the

book is if you hit adversity, don't go run in the safe room and hide, but face it and look for some opportunity if there's hidden inside the challenge. very often there is. but the ae version to work is really staggering among young people i found a reddit sigte a little while ago, some participants are -- >> terrible. >> yeah, work is an aberration or weird and not something that comes normally >> wilber, thank you good to see you again. >> good to see you, joe. >> thank you, wilber when we come back, more politics and your money.

chris coons will join us "squawk box" will be right back.

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it's 7:00 a.m. on the east coast. i am joe kernen with becky quick. andrew is on assignment. i like that blue >> pastels, looks like easter. >> easter is coming again at some point it comes faster -- among today's top stories, goldman sachs's ceo, speaking yesterday david solomon citing a challenging economic backdrop, and he adds investment banking activity continues to be better due to encouraging signs in its backlog

of business. reuters reporting that boeing told its suppliers it's delaying the 737 max output by six months compared to the previous target. and then in the polaris, the spacex crew onboard, and it's carrying four private astronauts using the spacex-designed suits for the first time and the spacewalk is scheduled for thursday the latest pictures "speak no evil" is turning low budget horror movies into major box office successes joini

joining us is jason blum jason is a friend of the show and has been around for a while and coming in and talking to us about this stuff jason, i have so many things i want to talk to you about, what is happening in the content business right now why don't we start with the film that is out. like all of your film, this scares me to death, even the trailer, and the passage of the word "run," and what is this film about, what really jumped out at you and why did you make it >> this is our second film with james mcavoy it's a remake of a danish film what i was drawn to about the movie, what the movie is really about, is currently and for the last few years, i think we,

especially parents, have a tendency to over please and we are too polite and scared to say how we feel, and this is a couple that could put their child in danger, so that's what caught me. >> yeah, like the stupid "yes" days, like your children can never say no >>yeah, everyone is scared >> we did three movies with them >> what is it with you you just like scary stuff, huh >> i love scary stuff.

>> why what is wrong with us? >> well -- >> she's getting a list. >> yeah, let's see >> i liked all different kinds of movies when i was younger in the beginning of my career, but what i found in scary movies, really horror movies are the only genre you can make low-budget independent movies and a studio release them and so i was attracted to that part of scary movies, and what i am building is a company, what i want plumb house to be, we have ten movies coming out next year which is almost twice as much as we had before. we have five shows, three video games and a handful of live events i am trying to scare people in all different media. >> when is the theme park

coming >> soon. we are part of halloween horror nights -- >> oh, i was joking. >> it happens in los angeles and orlando, and there are multiple mazes and experiences based on movies >> true terror, you can go too far, i think >> what is that? >> true terror, i think can you go too far >> what do you mean? >> true terror, things that can really happen. >> the most violent we did -- "the purge" and "halloween" -- >> but sometimes not just violence, but it can be too depraved i don't see you doing that >> we do supernatural.

>> "chainsaw massacre," was that too depraved or did you love it? >> i didn't love that movie. i like horror movies that are fun. >> that was my point >> i think it's -- if you put fun and jokes in a horror movie, the movie is scarier, because you can't keep somebody on the edge of their seat for 90 minutes, you have to get them to relax. we put jokes in and stuff in and then you are more scared because you are not expecting it >> who is your demographic >> younger, but more woman than young. young women take their boyfriends to movie. >> yeah, so we can cuddle and hold hands let me ask you about the horror movie playing out in the content business right now i am hearing it's getting harder, and there's a cutback,

because streaming has gone away and investors are looking for profits now. do you see that in your enre do you see it outside? how is it playing out? is it way worse than it was before the streaming bubble took off? >> the -- the -- i think overall we have always operated our business with the normal pnl, and we supply streaming a little bit but our primary business is a theatrical business. for us it normalized the business horror is one small bright spot in the theatrical. this year the box office is down this year as compared to last year that's specifically because of the strike and covid and we had those two things that knocked t theatrical to the ground by the end of this, by august, we were down 15 to 18% in june,

and now we are down 8%, and we are close to next year and i think it's recovering from those two things i think the rewarding from content companies for subscribers and not profit got the whole business out of whack and there's this kind of correction going on. i think ultimately the correction, what it will achieve is a few less tv shows and a few less movies, but they will be better i think people are now adopting my philosophy in my business, which is you don't make money unless the thing you made made money, and doesn't seem terribly ex complicated. >> you have a few rules that you really follow very closely to make sure you don't go over budget what are they? >> well, not too many special

effects or locations or speaking parts. the most expensive thing about the movie is how much you pay above the line, and the director, the writer and other producers and the actors are all paid the minimum we are allowed to pay, and then if it works, everybody does well. if it doesn't work, you go on and are not hurt too badly i am screaming from the rooftops, if you are actors and the person making the movie and is invested in the movie, the movies and shows will be better and i think that will happen >> thank you for coming by again. >> "speak no evil. >> yeah, opens friday? >> this friday thank you for having me. when we come back, we have

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welcome back to "squawk box. i am dom chu with a look at your morning movies apple is moving lower by about a percent. apple flat so far. on rulings out of the european union's top court, there was an order for ireland to collect unpaid taxes, and in the google case the court agreed with the 2017 decision to fine the company for giving preferential

treatment, and those bit of news moving these mega cap stocks the company announced a partnership to bring services with amazon, and they are upgrading oracle to an outperform, and goldman boosting its target to 155 from 137 that's sampling on some of the hikes on wall street, so oracle in focus and then shares of tesla, analysts at deutsche bank named tesla its top pick with a buy rating and higher price target head to cnbc.com/pro you can get the analysis of the big calls and stories, so keep an eye on those shares keep it here "squawk box" will be right back after this commercial break.

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let talk markets joining us, the chief investment strategist at i-capital. good to see you. >> good to see you, joe. >> have we shifted togrowth concerns >> we are expecting 3.2% core cpi. i think that's good enough importantly, we do see three months idealized inflation coming down quite significantly, more than the six month number and i think that should support a case for the fed to cut interest rates it's more about the growth concerns so far what unnerved the markets in this first week of september is we are in the recession watch and recession obsession, as i call it, only because the labor

market seems to be weakening more than expected that's the driver in the market. i don't subscribe to the view we are headed for a recession the economy is slowing but still growing. outside of the employment rate, you look at the range of the economic indicators and they are not implying high odds of a recession. >> if the fed were able to start its cutting cycle with a 25-point basis cut, that would be positive that it didn't have to do what it thought was anything more substantial than that because things are going pretty well and under control. will the markets test the fed and push the fed -- i mean, a good day yesterday, but last week i started wondering whether the markets were going to push the fed to a 50 basis point? >> they try, and there's a 50/50 chance that the markets tie in and we get at 50-point cut

we have a weakening labor market and inflation under control. gdp is still growing 2% and things are in check. i am hard pressed to think the fed will say let's go 50 basis points >> it's going to be true, though, anastasia? >> it's growing. >> it's a great place for the fed to be. >> yeah, and 50 basis points on the one hand can signal they see something that the rest of the market participants don't and in a way i don't want to see the 50 you can also make the case that they have a lot of room to cut they probably have 250 basis points to work with to get back to neutral so if they want to start it with 50, that's fine. it's not 25 or 50 basis points that matters what matters is we are in the beginning of a rate cutting cycle that is likely to go on

for some time and already providing relief to some parts of the economy, not just the markets but the economy. if you look at the rate that was 6.5% a year ago and 4.5% today if you think about the floating based loans, they are already lower and this is going to boost demand for credit, and i shouldn't say eventually because it's already boosting demand for loans, and whether it starts at 25 or 50 points, that affected will come on strong in the coming months. >> we worry about september and then an october low. not this year? >> well, so far september is living up to the bad seasonality -- >> yesterday, though -- >> yeah, yesterday was good. i don't think seasonality on its own is a good market predictor,

and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and if you extend it out to 20 years, actually 50% of the time the returns were positive in september and the average return was about a negative 70 basis points i wouldn't call that exceptionally bad seasonality. i like to focus on the fundamental drivers, which is one of them is not in a recession and still growing, and the other swupb article intelligent stories, alive and well and it seems like the markets concluded that nvidia doesn't deliver or the ai sector is not delivering and i don't think that's the case when you have billions of dollars go into the spending, and the spending intentions on gen ai are being prioritized. >> so the election is coming, and i don't think you used the e word, did you? >> no. >> and the fed is not thinking

about it and the stock market is not going to effective and the election itself is not going to affect the stock market, so we can take it off the table? >> no. under the surface you are seeing market reaction. first of all, when you look at the republican outperformance baskets versus the democrat outperformance baskets, they are shifting around. what i do hope to hear tonight are policy proposals look, those policy proposals will be used for voter awareness, but they are not necessarily going to dictate the direction of the market. was know, joe, because you have a policy proposal it doesn't mean it gets enacted because so much has to do with the composition of congress as well. >> let's hope not, anyway. thank you. >> thank you when we come back, a preview of tonight's debate with harris campaign cochair, senator chris

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so, of course, i expect the same with my money. [narrator] and meet betty ambrose. leatherworker. bootmaker. custom bootmaker. her hands can craft the finest tuxedo boot you've ever seen. what can i say? i'm hands on with my money too. [narrator] and what do all these investors have in common? we all trust schwab with our wealth. [narrator] that you do. every day over a million multi-millionaires trust schwab with more than two trillion dollars of their wealth. vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump will take the stage tonight for their first presidential debate. this will be the first in depth

look voters will get at someof the candidates' policies and agendas. joining us, harris co campaign chair, senator chis coons. i was thinking about it, the term, they got it from you i mentioned it in the past, if i ever saw something happen, welcome this morning >> thanks, joe it's great to be on with you and i am looking forward to tonight's debate in philadelphia i appreciate your optimistic framing that the american people will get to hear about the policy proposals of both candidates that's what i hope happens and we are not treated to a diatribe from the former president, and

the mics being off should lead to a chance to hear the two and how their policies will affect home and abroad. that's what i hope we will hear tonight. >> but just the idea that your campaign, you know, vice president harris' campaign wanted the mics turned on and were fighting against that and so why was the campaign fighting against it >> look, i was not one of the ones fighting for the mics on or off, but i will tell you, becky, my best guess is because they correctly predict the former president struggled to maintain his common cool when he was confronted with questions and challenges about his policy proposals. in the previous debate was with president biden, and the former president trump kept talking even though the mics were off.

>> when we see on a tv show about a trial, when one side brings up an issue that was not going to be brought up, the other side immediately brings it up, and you said you hope we hear about policy proposals, and in my ears it made me think you will need to address how difficult it has been to talk to vice president harris in a nonscripted way. i know what spices she likes or starbucks lids that are a wrong color, and a lot of people are looking forward to finally hearing something of substance so american voters know what they are voting for. >> joe, i think last week in a proposal in new hampshire about how to strengthen the opportunity economy and help promote startups, she made clear something she has been focused

on a lot of time but has not gotten coverage, which is her passion for small business, entre entrepreneurship, and how some struggle to get together and get out of the gate to launch a new business she proposed a significant increase in the tax cut for new startups, and she pledged to be engaged in reducing bureaucracy and red tape i serve on the entrepreneurship committee, and my senior colleague on that committee said she was impressed with the vice president's concrete and specific proposals in sharp contrast to that, the former president said he wants a 10% or 20% tax on all imported foreign goods, a tariff on

everything the american people buy that was made overseas great idea from the 19th century that doesn't make sense in the 20th century and bluntly it would be an across the board tax and he keeps insisting it would not raise costs for the american people, and, of course, it would, and we would face immediate enterprisele from the international trading partners i just spent a week talking about how to deepen and strengthen our economic ties with these two countries, and we are one of their largest trading partners none of them thought a new across the board tariff on products from japan and korea was a good idea. >> senator, one of your colleagues said something the other day that got a lot of attention and it was senator bernie sanders, just saying to

s summarize, he said for now she has because she's more pragmatic to win the election, but she still is a progressive i want to show you what happened on another network yesterday, and kind of surprising, maybe, but these were some of the 2019 campaign positions when vice president harris was running for president. it actually shocked the person that these actually were on an aclu questionnaire free gender care taxpayer funded transition care for detained migrants and any migrant detention, and defund i.c.e. by at least 50%, and end the use of any i.c.e. detainers, and this is just a couple of her positions back then. are these positions now what the

vice president would pursue, a, and b, if she said she wouldn't pursue them, why shouldn't we believe bernie sanders that it's just to get elected and you would revert to the same policy positions if she were to be elected president? >> i think what we need to be measuring the candidates tonight on is their performance in office we have seen some of the greatest and strongest job growth under the biden/harris administration, and donald trump talked a lot about restoring manufacturing, investing in infrastructure, and failed to deliver. as the vice president to president biden, kamala harris has a strong record on economic job growth more importantly, the thing that bernie sanders was criticizing her for was backing off joe biden's budget proposal to raise the cap gain rate to 39.8, and she came in with a 28% bernie wants it to be over 50%

he was saying she's still a progressive. i think on social issues, she is, indeed, dedicated to freedom and reproductive rights and keeping the government out of peoples' bedrooms, and her first substantive speech as a candidate on economic policy shows moderation and a decision to continue to provide for predictable increase in revenue and a stream of investment in startups and in small businesses rather than looking back five years, i would look at what she has said in the last few weeks i would sharply contrast that with the former president, whose own vice president, chief of staff, secretary of defense and national security adviser have all said he does not belong anywhere near the white house. a sharp contrast what he said and did in office and what she has said and done in office, and now that she is our candidate for president, we will see more and more proposals

on how to reduce housing costs, how to reduce prescription drug costs and how to encourage more startups and investment in the american economy, and she chose to focus on the economy as her main theme in new hampshire recently, i found very encouraging. >> we had another campaign surrogate for the campaign, for the vice president's campaign, commerce secretary, not speaking as the commerce secretary, but when i asked if there was any explanation for how difficult it has been, i think -- i don't know how many exstem that rainious press briefings the former president had was dozens, and we have had zero from the vice president and she said, well, she's been

busy, but we have seen crazy stuff at retail outlets and we have seen plenty of stuff, but as vice chair or cochair of the harris campaign, were you involved in that decision to keep her away from speaking extemer rainiously >> as you can imagine, i am not her daily scheduler. i worked with her as vice president and i know her to be smart and capable -- >> why do it then? do you have an explanation as why she has been kept under wraps like that and it raises suspiciouses and people wonder what is the problem? >> when donald trump gives those completely unscripted long and rambling interviews, the things he talks about are unhinged and in economic policy he talks

about slapping a tariff tax, and then rambles on about hannibal lecter, and i find that alarming i don't think we need candidates that do that, ramble onstage and unfocused and unconstructive ways, and that concerns business leaders. whether it's merck or dupont or sony or bank of america, we have major corporate leaders, and frankly, goldman sachs, that just came out with an assessment of the economic plans of both candidates and said that donald trump's economic plans unbalanced would reduce growth by half a point and would increase inflation and would be a drag on the economy and add 7 trillion to the deficit -- to

the debt, forgive me >> the current ceos were i think snap and yell that the merck ceo is the former ceo and the pepsi ceo is a former ceo, and every one of them that you mentioned. the goldman sachs piece, this assumed that her tax plan goes through completely to raise $5 trillion, and it assumes all the tariffs go into effect in the -- in the goldman, it assumes we leave the southern open and don't try to deport, that's the reason for the increase in the gdp. if you think the trade off between having 13 million unreg unregistered migrants -- illegal immigrants is worth the up particular in the gdp -- goldman

sachs can come out with that analysis and i don't think most americans would think i will take half a point of a gdp if you leave the southern border open and leave the people here, do you >> well, in deportable folks that are dangerous criminals, and former president trump's proposal to use the military to conduct broad sweeps in the united states and set up checkpoints and at gunpoint force people into camps and deport them, millions and millions of people, we are looking at two starkly different views. as you know, i support strong border security and vice president harris said she would sign into law the bipartisan proposal that was hammered out by a conservative republican senator, james langford, of oklahoma, and a centrist senator

of arizona, and a democrat from connecticut, the three of them worked out over months a credible conservative proposal, which at the time was endorsed by the border patrol union for how we should secure the border. it would invest a lot of money in border security and strengthen the asylum standards and kamala harris said she would sign that. former president trump killed that i was in the senate when this happened, joe. he directed the folks who were supporting it to kill it so he would have an issue, not a solution so the critical concerns all of us have about immigration and border security, we can debate whether or not current or former ceos have endorsed her what i think matters is ceos that i know that ran major multi-national companies like dupont, xerox or pepsi, they look at predictability and respect for the rule of law and

their economic approach trends for kamala harris. i agree with you, we all want to hear more substance out of both candidates and i think that's what we could and should tonight and i will be cheering and looking forward to commenting afterwards with you. >> great i don't know what we will talk about in december, maybe the eagles or something. >> hopefully the eagles being on a winning streak, yes. >> i don't want to talk about the bangles. maybe we will talk about the eagles senator, thank you >> thank you when we come back, a big week for inflation data. we will talk about what it could mean for the interest rates next week "squawk box" will be right back.

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cpi is due out tomorrow morning at 8:30. ahead of that we want to welcome senior adviser to jeffries and serves on the board of warner discoveries and is a cnbc contributor. >> have been for 20 years. >> we were just talking about this it has been 20 years since your first "squawk box" appearance. >> october 13th of 2024. i was the host >> guest host. guest host don't pad your resume >> so i so desperate to do that. >> you are the fed, and -- >> if you were in the room next week making this decision, what would you do would you cut 25 basis points, 50 basis points and why? >> i would argue for 25, and first of all you don't want to

send a signal of why the fed doesn't do politics, but if they were to do 50, one of the candidates would be streaming about it inflation is coming under control, but we are not fully there yet. it was pretty clear after jackson hull, the change in direction that is taking place 25 basis points would be my argument >> even with politics, it's hard to imagine either candidate complaining about a rate cut right now. >> politics is -- trust me, they are not into politics there, and i never heard it discussed in ten years. the real issue, and i am surprised to where things are trading, is how to we finance our deficits the treasury auctions have gone

well, and we have flows, and insurance companies had been buying the ten-year and other date, and our interests cost are $2 billion a day they shifted to treasury bills, and this is at the treasury, and this is secretary yellen, and 22% of the refinancing is treasury bills, and if the fed cuts, it would persuade that >> do you think the buyers will say okay, we will take less of what we have been floating you >> well, many would be happy and you are looking at one of them i don't know anybody that i know, an investor that has not put something in the short-term one year or less or two years or less and those rates came down

so the rates are nice for totally risk free paper. >> the markets are looking good if you are looking at equities >> yeah, that's the reason i would argue for 25 basis points. we have had socks hocks to the system >> so you think the economy is in a decent point, too we have a range of people that come on the show and some think -- >> the previous guests was talking about recession obsession. 2 to 10 was inverted >> yeah, that's what it's supposed to happen, though >> that's historically what has happened still, i got a kick out of the negative argument saying we are going -- we have been talking about recessions for two years >> well, eventually we will be right. >> yeah.

>> when you look at politics and it may not be come into the feds' discussions on this thing, but what would you like to hear more about in tonight's debate if you were like to pin down each candidate, what would it be >> we haven't heard any specifics at all from kamala harris just to say my orientation has not changed, and what does that mean >> kamala. >> richard, kamala -- >> ms. harris. >> if you say it the way you said it, i am warning you. i am trying to help. >> given that i was in the clinton administration and we believed in the george h.w. bush on trade, i am worried with the discussion on tariffs. i am all for applying them to

china in certain ways. >> punitively. >> yeah, because they cheat. i did the protocols for their session in the wgo, and they cheated on every sentence in the document every sentence doing it across the board will be inflationary. it takes it out sentence but doing it across the board is going to be inflationary it takes it out of companies' hides. >> and consumers >> i would like to see that -- >> they're not going to go into that detail at this debate, but at some point, i would like to hear how the staff and the president, if he gets elected, is going to implement -- >> so that sticks in your craw more than -- i don't even want to list it, i think it's kind of fun. price controls, taxing unrealized gains, 45% capital gains -- >> i'm about to be 76 years old -- >> any of those bother you >> yeah, price controls lead to -- >> okay, how about taxing

unrealize d gains? >> i don't know how that can possibly be good >> how about a 45% capital gains rate >> i'm against that as well. >> how about raising corporate taxes -- >> -- and i haven't heard her say it just like that. it comes out i think it would be helpful for all of us -- uncertainty is the enemy of decision making and right now we have enormous uncertainty about what she stands for, vice president harris and we also have fairly good certainty about what trump stands for, i just don't like some of it, particularly the tariff side. >> okay. >> and i do worry about this current session of congress, whether they're going to be roll over those extension or not. because i think they've been very positive. >> okay. >> and the other thing i will say about the trump administration is they were very good on regulation, taking something off the federal register for everything that might be on it actually, taking two or three things off we're over-regulated and i'm a texan, so we believe in free enterprise where i come from >> you wouldn't -- i would just like to watch elon musk take a

part the regulatory -- >> that's been a good proposal >> i just want to get some popcorn and watch. you could be a single-issue voter just on that >> and under both administrations, joe, enormous fraud. money that was distributed that needs to stop >> you pointed right at me when you said said that >> tens of billions or hundreds of billions. it's amazing there's monetary policy, which i've heard her talk about, and all this other stuff but you liberate the private sector, we learned that in the clinton administration >> richard fisher, 20 years here on "squawk box." thank you. >> you haven't aged one minute joe, on the other hand -- >> has not -- you want to go there? you want to go there thanks, richard. news just out from southwest airlines executive chairman gary kelly will retire from the board, effective immediately. following the 2025 annual meeting, following pressure from

activist investor eliot management southwest will also decrease the size of the board to nine members. "squawk box" is coming right back lk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right?

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all right. welcome back, everybody. diversity, equity, and inclusion programs at many companies have come under political fire and activist threat, prompting some leaders to back away from public participation in dei initiatives. that's a challenge for ceos trying to build strong workforces and joining us right now is ann chow she's former at any time business ceo and author of "lead bigger: the transformative power of inclusion." ann was the first woman of color to hold the position of ceo within at&t in its 140-year history. ann, welcome >> thank you so much, becky. it's great to be here. >> let's talk about this dei has become so politicized. i think what started out as a way for a lot of companies to try to make sure that they were reflecting their customer base all around them, has gotten a bad wrap, and in some cases, for very good reason

what's your thought process on how things have changed, and what dei really should be. >> well, i've -- you know, my view about dei and what companies are facing today is it's really about harkening back to your purpose and your values. if you're a leader today and you're thinking about those commitments that you've made to your full range of stakeholders, whether they are your customers, your shareholders, your employees, you've got to stay true to that purpose so for my perspective, dei, it's an acronym that oversimplifies three very important topics, diversity, equity, and inclusion in my book is about the power of inclusion, which is really a way of leading that aligns everyone, by widening your perspectives and including everyone for greater performance and impact that's all inclusion simply is >> that makes a lot of sense you want to make sure you're reflecting the world around you, your customer base, your suppliers. but in some cases, it's been played out to this kind of crazy point that instead of only hiring white men, we'll only

hire people who aren't white men. and how do you find that balance? how do you talk to leaders and say, hey, here's what inclusivity really is? >> absolutely. so dei is not -- what the misnomer is, is it is reputation at the cost of everything else, which is never what it was intended to be the world is more diverse, as we all know and becomes more and more diverse. so we as leaders are compelled to lead in the way that not only reflects today's workforce, today's market, today's investors, but tomorrow's, as well, right? and so, for us -- for leaders, you've got to be very, very clear about the metrics and about the benefits to the business and there's plenty of data out there that shows that leading inclusively and inclusive workplaces are better. they yield better results. >> the metrics what would be the right metrics? i mean, if you're looking at it, what were the problems that existed before what are the right ways to fix it >> some of the challenges that existed before would be, you know, a lack of truly innovative ideas that might be

breakthrough, right, when we're challenged with growth opportunities, we're often told to think bigger. you've got to think bigger well, you and of yourself, and your existing team, in your existing structure can't think bigger without new perspectives. and that's what leading bigger is, is widening your perspective by including others. >> how do you do that? i can think of places that i've worked that would only hire ivy league graduates other places that really only other hire from one or two state schools. we all get comfortable with those pipelines, that kind of feed in from who we are, what we know and when you're faced with a thousand applicants coming in for a job, it's pretty hard to pick out and say, this person is going to be better than that person, other than, hey, i know this person who knows this person and they've given me a good review of that person, so i'm going to take a flyer on that. how do you get passed that >> we all have to realize that over 70% of leaders choose

proteges that are of the same race and gender. it gets to your point, we like comfortable, we gravitate to comfortable. but what we have to realize in today's world and tomorrow's future, comfort means stagnation it means a lack of change, a lack of forward movement to the earlier conversation about metrics, and here are some of the things i said in my book, these are some of the sample metrics around the power of inclusion and inclusive workplaces, you have over 70% more likelihood to generate revenue from innovation revenue, which is new products and service revenue. you have 70% more likelihood to capture new markets. you have a higher level of team performance. a higher level of collaboration. and importantly, given how critical talent is today, you have a much lower risk of attrition. >> what about the pushback that's coming politically right now. some companies, i think of tractor supply, ford, and others who have said, hey, we're not going to do this, because there is an association with saying, we're only going to hire people, and we're no going to do it

based on who's the best candidate? >> ultimately, you have to if i'm a leader, and i won't comment on the value of their decisions. those leadership teams made those decisions for their businesses, but i harken back to, what is your company's purpose? what are your values who are your most important stakeholders and what i advise company, which is what i have done in these situations, is to be sure as you make decisions that impact one set of stakeholders, for whatever reasons, you're very clear about your priorities and communicate very, very heavily and that's something that we can all do for the there has to be a sense of priority, as it relates to who your stakeholders are. and inclusively, you've still got to address all the people who are important to you in your ecosystem for your business. >> ann chow, she's the author of the new book, "lead bigger." thank you. >> thank you so much it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast and you are watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i'm becky quick along with joe kernan andrew is on assignment today. some breaking news for you southwest airlines executive chairman gary kelly will retire

from the board effective immediately, following the 2025 annual meeting that comes after pressure from activist investor eliot management southwest will also decrease the size of its board to just nine members. that stock right now up by about 12 cents the european union's top court ruling that apple must pay $13 billion euros in back taxes. that's stems from a long-running lawsuit over apple's tax affairs in ireland goes back more than a decade that announcement came just hours after apple unveiled its latest suite of smartphones, alongside several versions of the iphone 16, apple will make its first set of ai features known as apple intelligence available in a free software update next month. vice president harris' support for a tax on the unrealized capital gains of the richest americans is the subject of a "wall street journal" op-ed. you would pay harris' wealth tax, warning of a potential

negative impact to all investors. joining us now is one of the authors, hal scott his committee on capital markets regulation president and a harvard law school professor emeritus and it's in the journal today, hal, on page a-15, and it's kind of a short piece, because you didn't really need a lot of data and you don't go into a lot of the philosophical concerns about -- or actually the logistical problems with trying to affect something like this. you purely go to the notion of what it means to be at $100 million of net worth it's not possible to just go after those people everybody would be affected. and i want you to explain why. >> well, basically, joe, it's because there would be a lot of selling pressure on the market these billionaires who hold

something like 66% of the wealth in public companies that would be affected by this, would have pressure to sell to fund the taxes. so that would be putting downward pressure on the market. additionally, why would you be public and then be subjected to this tax so this will lead to additional shrink animal of the public market, with corresponding growth to the private market and the retail investor can't get action access to those private markets, because to invest in a single private company, they would have to have $1 million in wealth and to invest in a fund of private companies, they would need $5 million. so it would be highly negatively affected by this wealth tax. >> as you point out, there's a -- in the provision, there's an exemption for ultra-rich investors who have 80% of their wealth in these ill-liquid

assets since 1996, there are 8,000 public companies in the u.s. today, there's 5,000 i can't imagine very many k companies that would want to stay public if that -- if they would go after this exemption. and i don't know where you would be down to in terms of public companies. they would all go private at that point and that's your point? there would be nothing to put in your 401(k). >> well, there would be a lot of -- i wouldn't go so far as to say they would all go private -- >> well, they wouldn't come public all the best companies would not come public, would they? they would either go private or the best silicon valley companies would not go public. >> well, you would have to get, with you know, the consent of the shareholders i think it would be clearly those companies were founders at a major share of this stock. those would all easily go private. and more, just as importantly, no private company would have

the incentive anymore to go public so all of these factors reduce the size of the public market, which is the only market in equities or debt in which the average investor can invest. >> it's not good, perhaps, when you talk about income inequality, but that does rear its head when you talk about these individuals that have $100 million or more, because that brings you to the billionaire class that owns more than $5 trillion in stock. that's 7% of the entire stock market and then a lot of that would have to be really re-evaluated this is not just a one-shot deal they would have to do that every year every year so there would be selling pressure on hundreds of billions of dollars of stock every year from this. >> couldn't say it better. you're exactly right and you know, another thing that i didn't really have time to go

into in the op-ed, is that, you know, our public market is the envy of the world, although it's been shrinking and its competitiveness has been decreasing, it's still really important. and you know that jewel of our financial markets would be under a lot of stress as a result of this so quite apart from the impact on the investors, just the fact that our public market, which is really important to allocating capital, et cetera, would be under continuing pressure to decrease >> all right, very good. well, as i said, this is -- i don't know whether we showed it. do we have a shot -- >> i don't think we showed it. that would have taken a lot to actually get a shot. for preparation and everything we don't want to produce it or hiytng there it is! we do have it. you! i wanted to show it again. thank you, hal and "squawk box" will be right

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hi, phil >> hi, becky, these changes announced by southwest airlines following a meeting yesterday between gary kelly, who is the executive chair of the southwest airlines board of directors, along with two other directors, they met with leaders from eliot management, which as you know has now essentially a 10% stake in southwest, and has said that it will call for a special shareholder meeting, unless there are wholesale changes at southwest, both in terms of leadership, as well as how the company has operated we see some of the changes that southwest has agreed to after this meeting, including gary kelly, retiring as executive chairman, at the end, once the annual meeting happens in the spring in next year. six directors who are currently among the 15 members on the southwest board of directors they are going to be resigning at the board meeting in november and southwest is also committed to considering eliot's suggestions, the candidate they

have put forward, for four new independent director positions that may sound like a lot, but there's a couple of things that also came out of this meeting that may not be enough for eliot, including southwest reiterating its support for ceo bob jordan, that he is the right person to lead the airline, as we have talked about for some time, eliot management has been emphatic from the beginning that gary kelly has to go and bob jordan has to go but clearly from this announcement from southwest airlines, it believes that bob jordan is the right person so all of this sets up the question of whether or not eliot management comes away from this meeting and says, that's a step, sst n it's not far enough, and as a result, we'll call for a special shareholder meeting. that's where we are today, guys. not a whole lot of reaction from the stock, initially, on this news but the big headline is that gary kelly, who has been just a driving force at southwest airlines, as ceo, and now as a executive chairman, he is

stepping down at the annual meeting next spring. guys, back to you. >> yep, interesting, phil. driving force. okay just trying to figure out which way we were driving, for most -- >> you can make that argument, joe. that's the argument from eliot eliot's argument is they have wildly underperformed, particularly over the last several years. and as a result, they need fresh blood, fresh ideas, and they're not moving fast enough >> all right i think right in the ditch, maybe. thanks, phil lebeau. coming up, google and its legal troubles are in focus. we'll ask kentucky senator rand paul why he's against a recent antitrust ruling against the ruling and later, this hour, hedge fund manager, kyle bass and former s.e.c. chairman jay clayton both will join us on u.s. tariffs targeting china we'll go in a time capsule and go back to when both of those guys looked like that.

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all right. welcome back, everybody. the latest on google's legal challenges this morning, europe's top court upholding a $2.6 billion fine against the company for favoring its own shopping competition service. yesterday saw opening statements in a u.s. trial over whether google hold a k monopoly on an online ad technology and then there was the judge's ruling declaring google's online

search engine a monopoly in an op-ed for the "washington examiner," rand paul said why he doesn't prefer google's search engine, it has achieved market dominance because consumers like it senator paul joins us this morning. and senator, thank you for being here we've been -- >> good morning. >> -- taking a very big look -- good morning we've been taking a big look at how tech companies in the united states are being so heavily watched by regulators here in the united states and in europe and beyond what's your thought on what's happening here >> you know, most anti-trust policy in the united states is misused and abused what you have is basically, it becomes a cudgel for disgruntled competitors. people who are not succeeding in the marketplace and want to use the law to beat up on someone who is beating them in the marketplace. if you look at advertising, google has a large share of search engine advertising, but what is their share of all advertising online

not so big but they also compete with newspapers, radio, television, billboards, advertising is advertising. so for the anti-trust case to say, well, they have a large share of google or of search engine ads, that means nothing it's basically somebody who doesn't understand the real marketplace and the real competition. but the other problem with anti-trust policy for the most part is there's no proof that google is charging outrageous sums and charging above and controlling the market they just say they have a lot of the market share and this has been the problem with antitrust policy going back to standard oil. it didn't have so much to do with the price or gouging the consumer, it just had to do with market share and i think market share shouldn't be regulated at all. i think it should be based on the consumer and this is something we've gotten away from now and it's a nonsensical economic policy, but it's a mistake to break up great american companies, because what they'll be replaced with is companies from other countries >> you think that goes for, let's say, the anti-trust case

against microsoft, and others as well at&t >> absolutely. absolutely and i think some people get misguided by policy. i mean, some on the right hate google because of their left-wing politics i don't particularly like them i try to use duck, duck go, because i don't like the policies of google i don't like them just putting to the forefront on all the algorithms left-wing politics. but at the same time, i don't want my personal beliefs to get in the way with a company's right to grow. link tharg product, linking the search engine to people who sell computers and phones, that's just good business we're going to penalize for them trying to be good at business. that's insane. and the government should have no role in preventing people from trying to increase their business >> senator paul, you are such an interesting person right now in washington there are very few people who we talk to who are looking at things, not in a very partisan matter at this point, especially because we are just less than 60 days from the election at this

point. i really appreciate how you look at every issue on a case-by-case basis and put it up against what you think is a logical test of things you have not -- >> go ahead, i'm sorry >> go ahead, i'm sorry, sir. >> i was just going to say that the mistake google mistakes, and this is a terrible mistakes. corporations should try to be nonpartisan if they don't want to piss off half of the country. half of the country is republican, half of the country is democrat. if you source elections, 61% of the sources are left-wing, 3% are right wing do they have the right to do it? absolutely they're a private company and they have a right to be as biased as they want. but do you want half the country to be angry at you why not try to have a fair search engine and partisan that you're nonpartisan it's like free speech, you know, i'm not for regulating speech, even speech from the other side, even non-sensical wrong-handed

speech should be allowed but people do need to take a step back from their personal likes and dislikes and talk about what would be good for the marketplace. >> senator, what do you think would happen if elon musk had not bought twitter where would we be getting -- and "squawk box" didn't exist? where would we be getting actual unvarnished news >> i think it was extraordinary what he did. and when he was asked, why did you pay $44 billion for twitter. his response was, i didn't pay $44 billion for twitter, i paid $44 billion to save free speech. that's saying a lot, but i agree with him and what came out is something that everybody should be aware of is that the government was colluding with twitter, before l elon musk, to suppress speech. this is a real problem i have a bill that would forbid the government i would never forbid "squawk box" or twitter or any kind of media outlet from doing whatever you want you're privately owned but i would forbid the government -- can you imagine,

after this interview, if the fbi came to your office and sat down and said, we liked your interview, but what he said was against anti-trust policy and it shouldn't be aired you would raise unholy hell about that but the same should happen if they go to social media afterwards or beforehand and say, you don't need to be interviewing rand paul about vaccines, because he doesn't think kids should take the covid vaccine. >> have you watched the coverage since joe biden dropped out, and vice president kamala harris, do you think that's been a normal sequence of -- do you think the mainstream media has fairly covered the transition to vice president? are you -- is that just -- duck's got to quack. go ahead >> no, i would say most of the mainstream media are an extension of the democrat party, and that their coverage of harris has been really soft glove and hasn't been probing. and i don't think it's been fair at all and the boost that she's gotten

has really been orchestrated by mainstream media that being said, i'm not for regulating any of them if you don't like 'em, change the channel. you know, so people need to get over themselves. and even people on the right, who are like, you know, the left-wing, they're control everything there's never been more choices than -- i grew up in the 1970s, when the three networks were all left-leaning, they were just more subtle about it and now there's dozens of choices. there's cable, there's radio, there's podcasts i think one of the phenomenons that's underreported is how many people are getting their news from podcasts now. how many millions of people are skipping the mainstream media completely >> senator, there's nbc news's sahil kapur reporting that he had a conversation with you last night, and he said that you're still not endorsing trump and you say yourenthusiasm for trump is flagging why is that? >> you know, i'm supportive of donald trump i think there's no question that donald trump is better than kamala harris on this.

and you know, one is basically an argument for socialism. i think the idea of taxing unrealized gains is not only mode moronic, it's so destructive she should be disqualified from any thoughtful person considering her. the thought about taxing unrealized gains are we going to tax my house, since it's worth twice it used to be worth. the same would happen to stocks as well. as far as my enthusiasm, i'm a deficit hawk the trump administration added $8 trillion. the biden administration is going to add $8 trillion this year we're going to add another $2 trillion. as trump left office, he was advocating for $2,500 checks again passed out to everybody. i'm not for that i was against the lockdowns. and i want to hear stronger language in that sense i also want to get to the bottom of the funding of the research in wuhan the nih is still resisting giving me that information my investigation hangs in the

lurch. and i want a promise, frankly, from donald trump that he will continue to allow me to do that investigation. and that he will sign legislation that i've written that will regulate gain of function research such that we are not having government money used to like take ebola, which has a 50% mortality and see if we can aerosolize it >> but fauci is going to ride off into the sunset, don't you think? nothing's going to happen? >> on reforming the gain of function research? >> on the entire saga that in hindsight, you know, in terms of trying to repress some of the lab origin information, asking, you know, other scientists to go along with trying to say it probably didn't happen that way, having already funded some of the research a lot of that, i mean, it almost reminds me of a ian fleming

novel. and it's just, it's -- go ahead. >> well, i wrote the book on this "deception: the great covid cov cover-up." in it, we exposed a lot of it. there's more to be exposed the only encouragement, as we fought this battle, it used to be a fringe thing to be against man mandates, to be against mandates on health care, but rewon in congress removing the mandate to be forced to take a vaccine that really didn't work and they didn't need it the covid vaccine. we won that battle as far as the lab and where it came from, lab or animals, in the beginning, we were discounted and called conspiracy theorist we were dismissed and no one would interview it we were taken off of social media at the behest of government that has changed facebook admitted they made a mistake. for a year we suppressed any knowledge that this came from a lab. i think quite a few of them would acknowledge that there's a pretty good chance this did come

from a lab what i need to do is get people convinced enough even if there was a 10% chance it came from the lab, wouldn't we want to try to prevent this from happening again look at all of the people going crazy about microplastics in your bottled water, but a million americans died and they're not worried about this research going on at labs when they create viruses that don't exist in nature, that could potentially wipe out millions of people but they're worried about microplastic in a bottle of water. i mean, come on! >> senator paul, thank you it's good speaking with you this morning. >> thank you coming up, former td ameritrade chairman joe mowgli is going to join us on the markets and the spate of leadership challenges inolge cle football -- oh, no, no, no in this case, facing some high-profile ceos on wall street, maybe the other issue, as well. i'll tell you on break about deon (♪♪) (♪♪)

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all right, everybody welcome back high-profile ceos on wall street are dealing with a variety of challenges right now we just heard southwest airlines ceo gary kelly is going to be stepping down, actually, executive chairman, gary kelly, following pressure from activist investor, eliot management intel's pat gelsinger is trying to turn around a company that's fallen behind in ai. starbucks' new ceo, brian niccol, is looking to meet customers' changing taste. nvidia's jensen wong is feeling pressure from investors, and the new boeing ceo kelly ortberg is looking to pull that company out of a slump that began years ago with two plane crashes joining us right now to talk about corporate leaders facing big challenges and the markets as well is joe moglia. he is former chairman and ceo of td ameritrade and executive adviser to the president at coastal carolina university.

joe, leadership has been something you have been focused on, not only in your career on wall street, but also what you've done with your football leadership, too, teaching leadership we see a number of these crises taking place around the world. any thoughts on these situations, how you step up to these challenges >> while each of those companies that you mentioned have a little bit of a separate issue on problem, there were three priorities every ceo has got to have, every firm has got to have it's all about your clients, your employees if you don't do a great job with your clients, you're not going to be in business. and you deliver value to each of your constituents through your employees. the other piece is real leadership aboutstanding up, taking responsibility to yourself you treat others with big respect. that's it. what happens, sometimes a ceo becomes enamored in terms of the way they present themselves in front of the board, because the

board will pay them. the way they handle themselves on television or in public but you can have a sophisticated strategy that handles a lot of contingencies, but if it's not simple enough to execute, you're not going to get the job done. what happens, they get away from those three priorities and forget about the leadership principle, where you are the one responsible. you're the one that takes care of your people, your shareholders you're the ones that got to live with the consequences of those actions. we get away from those principles sometimes and when we do, we get in trouble. >> i'm thinking through some of those individual instances gary kelly, for instance, maybe ran into problems because they weren't reinvesting enough in the company. updating things and modernizing things you look at boeing, you know some situations there where it was not enough attention paid to detail on the floor with making sure some of those come through. it's a lot easier to say it than actually do it >> that's the reason why i say it you can have a very well-thought-out, sophisticated strategy and that sounds good in front of the rest of the world, but if that strategy is not simplified

in way where your people, whether it's 100 people or 25,000 people can execute, you're not going to get the job done it's the same thing in football. you can have a sophisticated playbook, but if you don't have a simple enough game plan, where 11 guys can function at once, immediately, in concert, without hesitation, you're not going to be effective >> what's easier to deal with? on the football field or in the world of business? >> both are tough. every job, i coach for 25 years. every guy i got, the guy before me got fired you've got to get the job done in both worlds >> let's talk a little bit about markets right now, and what we might expect to hear from the federal reserve. markets have been near highs this month has been a little bit rougher. yesterday was pretty good, though and we are expecting that the fed is going to cut rates next week 25 basis points or 50 basis points >> yeah, i think, if i were the fed, i'm not the fed, but if i were the fed, i would going with 50 basis points. i think, we're 5.25, 5.5% right now as far as the rates go

to go from 5 to 5.25, i don't think that makes a difference. it's too small, too minute so why not be a little bit more aggressive now, in the beginning. then you've got two solid months to get more data, to see what the reaction is, with regard to the market, the economy, inflation, labor they have another month after that so you've got two solid months to be able to look at what they're doing. i would go with 50 basis points. i wouldn't even hesitate as far as that goes the only time i might pause for a second on that is 50 basis points too much right in front of an election >> that is what richard fisher, the former dallas fed president said when he was here earlier this morning you don't want to look political by doing it, and the other issue people have brought up is you don't want to panic folks. if you're cutting 50 basis points, does that signal things are worse than others on the street are thinking? >> if you have a negative attitude, it will. i think powell can explain that. the bottom line is when we waited too long initially to

hike, and when we did, we became very, very aggressive. everybody thought the market said, we're going to automatically start to ease in the first quarter. that didn't happen, but powell didn't say it was going to happen powell pretty much tells us what he's really thinking we've gone almost a year now from the time that he said, all right, we're done hiking we're done with that and i think now it's time for them to ease they know that they're going to do that why not take a little bit of a bigger step, rather than a baby step and then just explain why you did that and you've got two months to evaluate the data. we don't have to panic and think we're going to go into a recession. >> joe, there was an article, we were talking about it in terms of taxing unrealized gains, but one of the things that did come out of the article was that there is $5 trillion of wealth that billionaires have in the public stock market. $5 trillion of maybe some of it has been taxed along the way, but maybe very little of it has ever been subject to taxation, if you're a founder. this might not be the y to do it, to try to do unrealized --

is there a way and should we try to find a way to get at some of that $5 trillion that's never been taxed and how would you do it >> first of all, i don't know how easy that's going to be to do i recognize there's $5 trillion, that billionaires have in the market pi market i recognize that i think we have to find a better way to be able to do that that tax unrealized gains can i appreciate that being more and more of an issue i think increasing the tax to people that are more wealthy makes a little sense you increase it a little bit you can do the same thing with capital gains. you can increase it a little bit. but you can't go too crazy with this and i think taxing unrealized gains is a mistake increasing the taxes incrementally is probably -- >> i think the idea that people never pay tax, take a billion-dollar loan out and buy a yacht and write off the -- a lot of them live that way. they die, it gets stepped up to their heirs and so, basically, that amount of money has never

been taxed >> being a being narrowa billio yourself, you certainly understand -- >> you might be! i've seen this tactic before you're putting it on me so i don't ask you how much money you have, mr. it'd a mare eriamerite you'll take out a loan to be able to buy something special. you're buying something special that can be a value-added tax with that. the estate may be a little bit differently. there are ways to get at it. >> but we should be careful, probably -- >> i think we've got to be careful. but we can be thoughtful and creative with, and still figure out way to do it, like a value-added tax. >> how long were you at td ameritrade >> 19 years. >> what was the market cap of that company >> when i began it was $700 million. when we closed the deal with schwab, it was $26 billion with $14 billion in synergies >> see, that's what he was

doing. he was trying to divert the attention, trying to reflect it on me, a poor journalist who gets up at 3:30 every morning. >> i'm just proud of what we accomplished >> and i'm proud of your success, which may put you in the ranks of much more than our ranks. >> joe, thank you. joe moglia up next, hedge fund manager kyle bs,as former s.e.c. chairman, jay clayton going to join to us talk tariffs on china ahead of tonight's debate. stay tuned "squawk box" will be right back. hi, my name is damian clark. and if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on

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taxes and chinese tariffs have emerged as key issues in the presidential race. investors hoping to get some clarity from donald trump and kamala harris on their economic plans at tonight's debate, including how any new policies could impact inflation joining us now is jay clayton, former s.e.c. chair and a cnbc contributor, and kyle bass, founder and cio of heiman

capital management were you in the trump administration, but you were sort of s.e.c. chair, et cetera. you could be in the -- >> i feel good about the trump administration i feel very good about it. >> and you are, i think, i don't know, we've talked about a lot of different things, you're a china hawk, no doubt do you consider either one of these candidates free-trade candidates >> are you saying do i support unrestricted free trade. the answer is "no. >> cow don't is either candidate a free trade. >> we're going to talk about chinese tariffs. we'll get into issues of national security. >> when you hear the one talking point all democrats use against trump is that he's going to wreck the economy with tariffs you agree with some of these tariffs? >> i agree with many of them notice that the three on one tariffs on steel and aluminum exist today, and the reason those were put on is to defend our industries from a state actor executing non-economic

transactions, to rye to put our whole industry out of business >> how about across the board tariffs on everything? >> i think it's a great starting point to negotiate down from i think it's an ervegtive negotiating strategy >> you don't think it's bonkers. >> let me jump in and say i agree. tariffs are one economic tool. it's one of the few economic tools in addition to sanctions that are a little more circumscribed that a president has unilaterally economics, national security, they go together and a president who says, you know what, i'm not going to use tariffs is giving up a significant. >> where does he go wrong, jake? does he go wrong by saying we're collecting taxes from other countries and we're making billions of clars collecti dollg taxes? because that's not what's happening. >> that's clearly what's not happening. but it is happening in some cases. for example, when china is dumping goods, and you put a tariff on those goods, you are

bringing the price back to the natural market clearing price, and we are collecting taxes for that >> what you're basically doing is stopping consumption. people will not buy the cars if you tax them heavily enough. it's a punitive situation to say, you're not going to get this >> post-covid, we scrambled all the economic eggs in the world china was our number one trading partner. kyle was here pounding the table saying that's really silly they're number four now. >> yeah. >> because of the different measures we've taken, across the board, tariffs, the u.s. mca, we have near-shored and on-shored a tremendous part of our economy what did we have we pumped a bunch of energy. we're way up on energy pumping -- >> so you're in favor of things like the chips act >> i'm in favor of understanding the complexity of the world stage and what is good for america. and when i hear somebody say we shouldn't use tariffs, i'm like, that's

>> what about the idea that you don't think you're going to get a lot of revenues raised from tariffs. saying we're using it as a punitive tool, we're going to change behavior, making sure that we're not aiding people countries that we don't think are helping us, but if you think you're going to raise a huge sovereign wealth fund that's funned by that, that's crusade >> the revenue impacts are naturally short-term, that is absolutely true. but think about how much better we have come out of covid because of our ability to use our economic tools china's forth, taiwan just passed them. >> taiwan just started exporting more to the u.s. than china for the first time since 2002. >> so we're trading who our partners are >> why is all of this? because we have nimble energy. we're up 40% on gas from when trump took office. we're up more than a third on ho oil. and we have the world leading tech sector.

the five biggest companies in the world are our tech companies. and when the rest of the world printed money in response to covid, much of it came back to the united states, because our leadership in tech and energy. >> we really do hear equivalencies to the negatives of both candidates we hear on one have on one side people think is not a great idea, that is taxing unrealized gains, price controls, go down the list, raising corporate taxes. but immediately there's going to be what aboutism thrown back at the other side this lunatic trump wants to put tariffs across the board on all -- do you see how it's used? >> what's being lost in this argument, there's something really obvious to me that's not in any of these policy discussions. foreign investors, whether they're qatari sovereign wealth fund or the saudis or uae or someone in asia, all the investments they make in america, whether they buy stocks ortrade stocks, they pay zero

tax. why don't we level the playing field? why are we going after american citizens that have worked so hard to get to this wealth, we're talking about crazy unrealized gains i think that's insane. that will kill capital formation. why shouldn't we tax the people that use our system to earn their wealth why wouldn't the playing field be leveled against foreigners. foreign investors pay zero it's hard for me to believe. and no one is picking this up. why wouldn't we do that? before we ever talked about doing something else, taxing americans. it makes no sense to me. >> what do you gentlemen expect for tonight? you expect abc >> i expect a little bit of what we saw from chris coons earlier today. trump is tariffs, tariffs are bad. he's going to increase inflation. from the trump side, i think emphasis the pre-covid economy, 3% growth, 3% real wage growth, 3% unemployment all with low

inflation was the result of comprehensive policies hopefully we'll have a more substantive discussions other than tariffs are bad >> we go back to the tariffs are bad argument, where trump put the tariffs on steel and aluminum, biden campaigned on killing the tariffs and they still sit here today because they had a national security imperative that's why they're still here. they weren't enough on aluminum because china put our big aluminum smelters out of business to take this broad brush and say they're bad just to jay's point earlier about the complexity of the world, you have to target things when you're trying to protect industries from reliance on bad guys to be like relying on germany to make our ammunition in 1938 we don't want to do that so we need to stop relying on china to help us with our military industry complex. >> in your view, who would china prefer the next president to be? >> i think that's obvious, they would prefer kamala. >> why

>> because trump is unpredictable and trump and his national security council were willing to really go levy these sanctions, these tariffs think about what trump did in 2017 he had iran buckle down to working capital. you want to see sanctions properly executed, those were properly executed. the sanctions on russia right now, we sanctioned 10% of their oligarchs. we didn't touch their banks and let the energy thrive which is 60% of putin's gdp we didn't sanction anything. we need someone in the seat that knows what they're doing that is willing to press the hard button and the hard button is going to hurt but so far, we haven't had anyone in there willing to press the hard button. when trump was in there, he had iran buckled down. and then all of a sudden, this current administration flipped and said, let's give them $100 billion. you see what happened when that happened i don't think we have a cohesive foreign policy, economic policy,

sanctions policy >> i'll go on the domestic side. our energy strength and our strength in tech andthe fact that more than 50% of the world's capital gets invested from the united states, those three things, what i have heard from the harris camp is skepticism of those three things the green new deal is anti-energy. the taxation on capital gains is anticapital flows. and then in tech, the idea that they have been -- lena khan has somehow bought into the european view that u.s. tech is bad i mean, there's nothing has brought people out of poverty around the globe more than getting connected to our -- india's entire strategy on pulling people out of poverty is connecting them to the digital economy. >> one more thing. we need to start acting like the power we are we are 4% of the world's population we're 25% of the world's gdp we have 45% of the world's capital markets.

we need to start acting like we're strong andstop acting weak we need to lead with strength like we used to. >> there's a widely circulated view where i think -- i almost said former president biden, so sad. where president biden said we will end fossil fuels. and at the time, the left was like, yes, thank you we're going to do it now, because we're at maximum production, we're at new highs for production, they're all gratified that didn't happen now they actually brag the biden administration has brought us to the forefront of oil and gas production have they not? >> it's amazing because a simple stat of that gas went to $525 nationally on average at the height of the covid supply shocks. it's now down to $3.25 that $2 delta is $600 million a day in people's pockets. if you don't understand that

this economy - >> biden did not end the fossil fuel industry. we're at all-time highs. >> it's together it's together. look, i'm from texas we had the biggest electric grid in the country 85 gigawatt grid a third is alternative power today. wind and solar produce a third of texas' power. every day at 7:00 p.m., we have a catastrophic failure the wind stops blowing and the sun goes down. to transition to all alternative power, i don't think the people understand the construct of the market it's going to take decades, 50 years. >> including hitting spr to keep prices down. where is the admission that that's where we really are and that the green new deal was e on of the silliest things we have ever heard >> jay, thank you. kyle, thank you. i have to say we'll be right back

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let's get a final check on the markets before we hand thing off to "squawk on the street." you do see some continued green arrows this morning. dow features up by about 50 points s&p futures up by 16 yesterday, we had green arrows

at this time and the market built on those gains throughout the session. you finally saw a positive session after four down days for the dow before that. treasury market right now shows the ten-year just slipped below 3.7% the two-year is at 3.65. okay, that does it for us today. tonight, you have that presidential debate. we will be watching that closely. we'll be watching the markets closely and the 30-year treasury is the only one hanging in above 4% right now >> 9:00 p.m., we might not watch closely. >> we'll see you tomorrow. time for "squawk on the street." good tuesday morning welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm david faber with jim cramer. we're live from post nine. carl has the morning off let's give you a look at futures. we get started with trading 30 minutes from now how are we looking what do you think, jim >> look, we were at 3.30 it looked like it would be another bad day.