records for the stock. china ramps up support for the market. boeing backtracking on a deadline for striking workers to vote on its latest offer maybe they were watching yesterday. now the union says its members are overwhelmingly against that proposal. plus, donald trump and kamala harris providing more details of their plans for the economy. we'll bring you the latest comments from the campaign trail straight ahead it's wednesday, september 25th, 2024, and "squawk box" begins right now ♪ good morning, everybody, and welcome to "squawk box" right here on cnbc we're live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. here we go, wednesday, it's hump

day, and the futures are kind of feeling it at this moment. right now, off a little bit. you're looking at the dow down by only about 8 points the s&p futures down by 5. it comes after modest gains yesterday. the dow and s&p was up by a quarter of a percent the nasdaq up half a percent it was nearly a 4% gain for nvidia that helped power the nasdaq higher. jensen wang wrapped up his personal sales of 6 million shares of a stock. that completed the trading plan he had committed to earlier in the year that stock this morning off by about half a percentage point. if you take a look at tressy yield, it looks like 3.75. 2-year at 353. and gold continues to climb to a new high this morning it's about 2680

2681.40 to be precise and bit county off slightly. 63, 635. china executive bank announced support and energized the stockmarket. this includes cutting interest rates and lowered reserves for banks, and offering roughly $70 billion in funds for funds brokers and insurers to buy chinese stocks it also said it would put up some money to announce buybacks. more easing is in the pipeline, and it's day after day at this point. after a 4% gains in the cause pom its, you're looking at the shanghai composite closing up at 1%, and the cfi 100 at half a percent. the doj is accusing visa of

debit network monopoly it goes on the say visa's moves over the years have resulted in american consumers and merchants paying billions of dollars in additional fees and say it far screeds what it could have charged in a competitive market and were competitive visa calls the case meritless. the company's general counsel says today's lawsuit ignores the reality that visa is just one of many competitors with a debit space that's growing with entrants thriving. this is going to be an interesting one. >> you need to explain it to me again. i would think that -- i mean, my kids have all these other ways of paying. >> square, apple pay. >> everything. square, apple pay. are they not -- are they just again narrowing what they're looking at >> so in this case, unlike a lot

of the cases, it's more complicated because a lot of the features set when you're debiting a card off of this and you're doing it off another network, you're still using visa. >> bingo. >> that's the real question. now, you're a bitcoin fan and you think ethereum becomes a payment option for credit, not debit, they own a huge portion of the market. >> is it the monopolistic practices that have allowed them to do it >> it's lower than it is with credit card firms. over the summer it charges you a couple of bucks.

if you use a debit card, it wil not. visa does have a massive network and they've made these partnerships with all these companies like square and others to use their partnerships. >> so because i get the frequent flyers that are useless but for some reason i get them and need them, i don't use a debit card and you don't want to use a debit card for a big purchase. >> you don't want to use it so somebody gets your debit card numbers. i never put my card in if that reason. >> i use a credit card for different republicans, which is both the points and the services that you don't get with the debit card. >> i've got a 1.5% cash back for everything. >> but more to the point, if you lose your thing, if you break

your product, all of those things, that's what the credit card will protect you on. >> but you at this point thing that may be -- >> i think it's a thing. visa actually stocks up. they're rolling their eyes stock traders. it's another dj thing that's not going anywhere. >> by the way, the credit card industry -- visa, mastercard, amex, that's not a monopoly, per se, but there have been arguably monopolistic practices throughout the credit card business, the financial system in this way -- i keep using the phone as an example of a credit card -- >> -- which tells you something. >> -- which tells you something, except that it's going through the phone to the card is one of

the great taxes on the system. it's actually quite incredible it's really a 2%, 3% tax on everything you touch you talk about tariffs the credit card is a great like tax/tariff on everything, and the question is whether you believe you're getting enough service for the 2% or 3% more you're paying on everything. >> do you still have a diner's club >> i do not. >> travelers checks? >> i do not. >> anyone? >> i'm just saying it's an incredibly successful company. what are they doing? they're helping you with payment, which is valuable to some extent. >> the doj is looking at this on two fronts one is the loyalty fees -- loyalty discounts you get if you're a big vendor, if you push everything through their network. the other is the partnership they struck up --

>> i make a lot more deposits, not payments just my life all deposits i buy some food. that's about it. cash pay cash obviously so you save 10 cents per gallon. boeing said a survey showed its members were overwhelmingly against boeing's latest offer, which was its best and finally offer during the day boeing said it would extend the timeline after the union said, you know, no, then rejected the initial friday deadline. he said, why friday? we're going to be sucking you guys dry for a week on this. boeing's latest proposal included a 30% pay gain and a restoration of performance bonuses. the union has been seeking a 40% pay hooic and the restoration of a pension plan, to find a

pension plan striking workers are set to miss their first paycheck as a result of their strike this thursday. we saw as we said other unions get numbers like that when they held out, and i just think it's going to be hard to convince these guys to say, where's mine. didn't some autoworkers got to 40 after being out for a long time. >> they did. phil lebeau said yesterday the pension wasn't the biggest sticking point. >> i don't think that's a negotiating thing. >> i don't know. >> no one will ever have that again. >> there are 10 million people who have pensions in the united states 90 million have 401(k)s. that's the idea. union management is mad. union leadership is mad management went around them, but the union leadership has been

completely feckless in terms of being able to deliver anything at this point. they recommended that 90% of their membership turned it down. starbucks' ceo brian innicc is committed to bargaining in good faith with union. earlier in the year starbucks and its union talked about it in a path of what they're calling a fair process. we'll see what happens at the 500 stores. a new filing shows that berkshire hathaway has sold. they have to disclose the trades in the stock within a few days. i believe it's three days according to s.e.c. rules.

even after months of sales, the remaining stake is still worth more than $32 billion based on yesterday's close. berkshire is still bank of america's largest shareholder, and i believe bank of america is number three. it was two behind apple. but it's behind. is this a quick one? >> we turn to you if for that be up. >> that's why we're here. >> what was the question? >> just about what started the company pack in whatever it was, the '60s. it was the first one, the 200. but also the t. rowe price was an individual. a guy. >> i did not know that. >> i want to update you. ryan seacrest is doing a phenomenal job on the wheel of

fortune. he's a ve very happy individual. and vanna is clothing well. the pair are very good together. >> i haven't watched. >> if you see someone bad -- >> good for the update. >> if you see someone bad on "wheel of fortune" -- but if you can see someone good, ryan stepped into that like he's been doing it forever. he's phenomenal. >> he's a smooth individual. >> but he's a happy guy. he's happy, affable, fun. he's not -- >> just like us. >> just like us. so there you go. there you have it. i might -- >> what was the category -- >> i might do this every morning. >> what was the category? >> financial -- >> i'd be happy if i was ryan seacrest too. >> i know. >> just so you know. >> making $100 million a year. >> you know that they tape like

five shows in a day. >> yeah. >> so that it's done in a -- >> i know how it works. >> they'd never let us do that on squawk. >> andhe tn you're on vacation the rest of the year. but he's a very hard-working. >> they used to have one margarita per show taping. >> what? >> yeah. in the old days. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairdifference.com. ]

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let's take a closer look at the market. joining us now for possible pick, joann feeney, adviser and managing partner and portfolio manager. in a nutshell, we need to know whether all the gains we've seen, i think 20% in the s&p, in anticipation of the rate cut cycle, does it continue, or is it one of those situations where, okay, we've had a lot of anticipation of what was going to happen, and most of the gains have already been made for the year? >> yeah, good morning, joe. clearly there's a lot of anticipation for the rate cuts, but the rate cut cycle is just beginning. as you know, we don't invest in the market as a whole, so what we look at is the individual stocks, some of which you will get a lift because of lower interest rates.

but more importantly, stay focused on the earnings potential. whether it's your money in ai or continuous builds of new houses or struggles consumers face and where they shop, a all of those things create opportunities for investors as opposed to just looking at the big macropicture, wh which is the long interest rate cuts. >> what does that tell you, and does everything -- the benefits of lower interest rates, is it still going to filter through, through the housing sector and other areas? rates initially went up. >> look at where it's come from so far. it's come down from the highs because the fed was convincing in the fight against inflation, so the long-term view came down toward the 2%.

that allowed the 10-year rate to come in. the reason why is the more positive view on the health of the economy, the longer term growth rate. it looks like it's a little bit better. as you know, the long-term growth feeds into the 10-year rate. does that help the housing market? the housing market is helped by the fact that it already has come down a fair bit, and we see that in mortgage rates, and the more important thing for housing is the fact we still have this massive shortage after ten years of under build, and that's why we look at the houses for first-time home buyers and one step up, which could see some help from the federal government, depending on which candidate wins this race. >> okay. so what do we buy? what are you recommending? would you do it today? >> yeah. we lit. we think it has more room to run. it's suffered recently. it's had to give breaks on

buying houses because of the affordability on the borrowing side. so those kinds of breaks are likely to get smaller. the discounts are likely to get smaller as rates have gotten lower over the past six, 12 months. and they're spinning off the landslide of the business, so these likely to help their margins. we like lennar, and we think it's got a long ways to go. >> what else? >> we look at ai. capital is broadcom. the reason we like it is for several. it's involved in the ai play in two different ways that are compelling. one, it co-develops with specialized chips to run with the ai models and the specialized chips are high-margin business for broadcom. but in addition they do the

connectivity chips. in fact, they announced a new generation of optical connectivity, which speeds up the flow. speed is everything. bandwidth is everything. they've always been a leader here. as you know, they've done a terrific job of buying up companies that continue to bring in new product lines that are leaders in their industries, that have himars gins. they may not be the fastest growing areas of the tech world but they have a consistently himars gin with deep modes and they've done a great job with generating smasive amounts of free cash flow. we expect it to continue to do well in the organic growth area but also in m & a. >> all right. i've still got some money. do you have another one? >> sure. let's go back to consumer. there's been a lot of talk about the consumers struggling. you hear concerns about the

economy, high prices, high cost of buying a house. there are elements of the consumer at the high end that are just fine. they're not worried about going up to 7.99 a point. but there are plenty who are struggling. it's the midrange we're focusing on here. what they're doing, that kind of household, is finding ways to trim their budgets, and they're shopping at places like a t.j. maxx, marshall's, or target. these areas offer quality, but also value. folks really like the treasure-hunting of t.j. maxx. another long-term holding. you have benefits on both sides. demand more traffic in the stores, but also where they source goods is becoming more a attractive. they get products from other stores like department stores that are having trouble selling stuff. we see that softening in some of those stores. their inventories are going

down. they get better stuff to sell at better margins, and they're getting better foot traffic. all good for t.j. maxx and marshall's. we like that stock at tjx. >> all right, joanne feeney. what do you think the t. in t. rowe price is? >> thomas. >> why would you think that? why would you bury the thomas if you're t rowe price. the question was a bighorn sheep symbol, which i didn't realize is everywhere on t rowe price because of their sure-footed agility. you have the bighorned bull and

then the bighorn sheep. >> and then you have boomer. >> the boomer report. like we have no viewers that are boomers. i have a lot of company. >> sean combs has a high-profile cell mate of sorts. they're in the same unit. related to one of the biggest frauds in history. we'll tell you what's going on in just a moment when fraud returns. >> announcer: squawk picks is sponsored by wisdomtree. with welcome to the future of investing.

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welcome back to "squawk box." caroline ellison has been sentenced to two years in prison and ordered to forfeit $11 billion in her role of the fraud and conspiracy. she was a star witness, you may remember, at the prosecution of her former boyfriend, ftx founder sam bankman-fried. the prison term was significantly stiffer than the recommendation by the federal probation department which said three years. the judge praised ellison for her extensive cooperation but said she needed the criminal sentence to prevent other bad actors from committing fraud. i imagine when she decided to turn state evidence, she thought, you know, somehow i'm going to get off. >> she was probably told they

would recommend that. >> by the way, there's another case going on with ryan salem, you might remember, where he said he only spoke on -- that he only worked effectively with the prosecutors and settled the case because they weren't going to go after his partner. and now apparently they're going after his partner. they're saying, look, you need to undo this entire thing because i made a deal based on this thing. >> do they put it in writing when they make these deals? >> i don't know that they put it in writing. >> i guess they can't because it's up to the judge's discretion to go and do it. i understand the judge's point you want to deter future fraud, but i think the other side of that is you don't want to deter people from cooperating with the state, particularly on difficult cases that you wouldn't be able to prosecute without some of these witnesses. in a somewhat related story, multiple reports say sean combs is living in the same unit of

like a dorm brooklyn jail. >> i can confirm this. >> yeah? it's sam bankman-fried? >> yeah. >> you were over there. >> i'll just say i know. >> have you got friends incarcerated? >> when you know, you know. >> they're sleeping -- >> they're in this dormitory-style jail. >> i visited it once. scary. >> they're not in a room. unit. >> admitted guilty but judge denied bail. it appears combs would appear to witness tamper. he was assigned to the special housing unit that often holds the high-profile units.

sam bankman freed has been housed there since last year. he violated one of the conditions of his release and revoked bail. he was sentenced to 25 years in prison but remains in a brooklyn jail while he is pursuing a detail. >> do you have any more details? >> not any more details. just what we know for the most part. >> wow. >> not just detail. typically -- this should. be surprising. when you have a high-profile -- usually it's like judges, policemen, celebrities are always put in the same groups of people. by the way, sometimes the worst offenders because they're actually always worried that the other inmates are going to hurt them. that's the issue typically. so the reason why oftentimes you'll see certain groups of people you know of being high profile in one unit is because the goal is to protect them. >> the only thing i would say is the things that sean combs is being held for are like violent

crimes. they're holding him on racketeering. >> no, no, but oftentimes the highest profile people -- often times white collar people are typically i put with what may be sometimes considered the most violent offenders because of the view that if you're the head of a gang, you're offen in that group because they need to keep that person away from the rest of the population. it's a very interesting sort of dynamic inside prisons. >> that is way more -- >> i could spend lots of time reporting on white collar crime in prison. oftentimes you're shocked by the people who are in there at the same time in the same place. >> yeah. all right, when we come back, housing in focus. we've got a home builder's stock to watch, and two housing data points on today's "squawk planner." we'll have the details right after this. as we head to break, we'll take a look at yesterday's s&p

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good morning and welcome to "squawk box" live on -- live. we are live on tv as it happens. we're at the nasdaq market site inside times square. take a look at the futures. dow up by 11 points. shares of kd homes falling right now. take a look. down 6.5% on the back of a new report that missed estimates by two cents. the company raised its full year revenue outlook. home orders were essentially flat, softening in june and july, strengthening in august as rates started to come down. it will be interesting whether

we get more reports in terms of that kind of shift as we get further into the year. right now it's time for the squawk planner. on it we've got housing data on today's agenda. we'll be watching closely for new mortgage application data. that comes after the 50-point basis cut last week. the 10-year yield has pushed up since then. we'll see how that plays out. we'll get new sales data. after today's "closing bell," quarterly results are due from chipmaker micron. right now it's time for sectornomics. sectornomics is sponsored, right? >> it's sponsored by iy spyder.

>> again, an underperformer, but modestly sew and a rising market for everybody else. we decided to take a look at the dividend plays. they take views on the income side of the equation. so we wanted to look at the s&p 500, the aristocrats, the ones that raise their difvidends consistently over time. if you look at them, there are 66 that fall into that category. among themming about 16 of them have kind of like this positive year-to-date performance trend and 3% dividend yields, just three results. so after all of that screening is does, these are the three names that have positive price performance. these are the ones i want to focus on here. if you look at kenview, it's got a 3.5% yield. kimberly-clark also at 3.5%.

pepsico at 3.2%. these particular stocks not only have higher stocks on a relative basis but have their stolkcks declined. becky, i'll send things back over your way. >> that's a good way. dom, thank you. president biden calls for a cease-fire on the war in israel. how rrd woieshould the markets be about this global hot spot? council of foreign relations is joining us. we're coming back. >> announcer: sectornomics is sponsored by sector spdr etfs. at morgan stanley, old school hard work

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welcome back to "squawk box." president biden calling for a cease-fire in a push to contain a broader regional conflict in the middle east. joining us now is council foreign relations president michael froman. it's great to have you at the table. help us understand. we heard what biden said. the question is we're going to hear from bibi netanyahu and whether he's going to actually will i follow through on any of this any time soon. >> it doesn't look like there's been much progress on the cease-fire talks. in the meantime, the conflict with lebanon -- >> it's only escalating. >> it's only escalating. it's entering a new phase. you see that israel has managed to kill 11 of the 12 top hezbollah leaders. there's now an effort to push back the hezbollah borders. of course, there's the missile

issue, which is that hezbollah has about 150,000 missiles, one came quite close to tel aviv, intercepted by the israelis. >> how come it was only one missile fired into tel aviv? was it a warning to get them to back off? >> it's unclear. it's pretty deep. we know they have the capability of hitting most of israel with the wide range of missiles that they have. there are reports that israel, the air strikes have taken out a lot of their missile capability, but there's still a lot left. >> that's the question. do you think it's working? >> the danger is when war escalates, you can't predict how it's going to work out. certainly israel has managed to have some pretty serious attacks on hezbollah, on the leadership, on the missiles. now the question is where do they go from there. if it becomes a ground war, go back in history to 2006 or otherwise, it can get very, very difficult in lebanon, and i

think the rest of the region would be quite concerned. >> do you think it becomes a groun ground war? >> i think it could. i think it could. >> if israel sends troops in, where does iran stand on this? >> big question. it's their second strike capability. they use hezbollah as a deterrent against israel. so far iran has been quite restrained in terms of encouraging hezbollah actions. however, with the lack of cease-fire progress in gaza, if there's really a ground effort in lebanon, iran could retaliate as well, whether it's more missiles coming from iran toward israel or other targets on targets or relative targets. >> if you were to play this out -- and this is not a game -- but if you were to play the war game, what does this look like? best case/worst case? >> best case is israel manages to reduce the threat hezbollah

faces from the missiles and being proximate to the border. >> how far away do you think they are from that right now? >> i think early innings. they've just begun attacking the missiles. they still have all the people near the border that need to be pushed back, and they've got a lot more -- >> who are they negotiating with if 11 of the top 12 leaders have been attacked? >> it's quite different than hamas. there's been negotiations between the biden administration. they've been tryinging to get a cease-fire or de-escalation between hezbollah, and israel has not succeeded as of yet. but there are political leaders. >> do you know this guy? the cfo? >> yes, indeed. >> you do know him. i know you're a democrat, but any truth to it this? >> what does it say? >> it says iran is waiting for president harris. >> there's a strong bipartisan

challenge. i don't see a significance between one party or the other. >> you don't think the way we've been approaching iran? >> i think biden has been firm. >> all of this is happening because he's been firm? >> when you say all of this has happened? >> i showed you this when you came in. all this. >> i think iran -- >> all this has happened. >> iran has been deterred from leveling a major attack on israel. there's been incredible collaboration between the u.s. and regional powers including saudi arabia and uae to defeat the missile, unprecedented cooperation, and there continues to be progress with saudi arabia -- >> that's an interesting broader kind of question, which is if you look at this administration and you look at all the things that are happening around the world, do you place blame on this administration for these things happening?

obviously you hear president trump say if i was in this role, this would never happen. you as an expert in this field -- >> an expert democrat. >> -- would you say this is inev inevitable? >> i think the issues in the middle east predate this administration. they go back centuries. >> the abraham accords were pretty good. >> they were pretty good. i think the biden administration has tried to continue the good work of normalizing relations as well. the tensions between iran and them has been there for a while. >> sure. >> if you remember, trump pulled out from -- >> let me ask you a different way. do you believe that certain leaders are able to deter certain things from happening just by their sheer force of -- >> -- their craziness. >> that case or personality, what have you. if you look at history, do you

say there are certain people who for whatever reason have had a deterrent effect on certain types of behavior? >> i think there is certainty that a leader brings to the table. ultimately it comes from the forces we have there. we have central command, air carrier strike groups in the region, a lot of men and women and aircraft and ships there. i think that's ultimately the deterrent. and the progress that's been made in terms of working not just with israel, but our allies. >> tough talk is not something -- >> tough talk alone doesn't do it. i think it's tough talk plus the ability to really bring the incredible forces. >> master froman, thank you. parts of the gulf coast bracing for tropical storm helene, expecting to strengthen into a hurricane today. we'll show you the projected path next. and then cftc rostin benham

is going to be joining us. we're coming right back.

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tropical storm helene is rapidly strengthening in the caribbean sea, and is expected to become a hurricane later today, while moving north along mexico's coast toward the united states. the national hurricane center says that the storm could strengthen to a category 3 or higher by tomorrow. that's when it is expected to reach florida's coast. when we come back, betting on the outcome of the presidential election using an offshore platform. regulators are watching this very closely. we will talk ttho e chairman of the commodity futures trading commission, ros behnam about that and much more. "squawk box" will be right back. .

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the commodity futures trading commission announced this summer they're monitoring a poly market, another offshore crypto betting platform. markets are becoming heavily scrutinized with people betting on the upcoming presidential election and joining us right now to talk about it is the cftc chairman ros behnam. thank you for coming in today. >> thanks, becky. >> these are markets we definitely keep an eye on and these predicted type markets have been around for a long time. you can bet on just about everything. but obviously with the election coming up, people look at these things very closely. the assumption has been is that because there is real money on the line, maybe it is better than the polling you see in some

places. what is wrong with what these platforms are doing pootentiall? >> first of all, good to be here. i don't think there is necessarily a question that there is merit to the price discovery function of these markets. but really what the commission has been saying for over a decade now is that these markets are illegal under current law. and we have essentially pushed that towards what we're dealing with right now with the two markets. but i would say what i've said multiple times is this pulls the cftc into the role of being an election cop. because if there is manipulation of the markets, if someone does take the position long or short, which would be on a candidate, and then potentially puts out news that is not necessarily true, this could spiral into a situation where you have manipulation of elections. and i think if -- >> convincing people -- >> moving markets. in the statute there are certain things that are illegal. war, assassination, terrorism,

gaming, anything that is illegal, and congress did give the cftc authority to make decisions about public interest. i think we have to have a line where we draw certain financial contracts. we don't want to commoditize elections and the integrity of democracy. >> front running. in fact, it would be like what happens in the stock market. >> it is precisely the same type of manipulation we see in the stock market or the derivatives market. and we don't want to lay it over on elections. no. these are all illegal, not all states, but this is illel under most states in the country and that really is at least a part of our legal argument we made before the court. and i've said this, you know, people say this is illegal overseas and some jurisdictions, but it is legal and it is sanctioned under gambling laws. so i think if there is really a strong demand for this, folks need to think about where they're going to go and where we sort of house this. and i think it is probably best suited in a sort of gambling structure as opposed to a financial market regulatory

change. >> this is not so much about protecting the people who happen to be using the offshore betting houses. normally when the regulators come up with these things, it is, like, we don't want people to be defrauded. this is more the situation we don't want the election to be stolen or manipulated. >> i would never say our number one priority is making sure customer protections are in place, but in this particular situation when you're dealing with democracy, and elections, i think we all collectively have to think about where is that line that we don't want to cross when it comes to financial markets and the utility of financial markets. and in this particular case, both pulling the cftc into this sort of space of being an election cop and then as joe mentioned the risk of people front running or manipulating markets by taking a position, and given how news travels, given what we have dealt with in 2020 and 2016, i often mention the issues with dominion voting systems, right, or the -- any news about a candidate, local, state, federal, having health issues, not running, changing --

any decision that could impact the price, the contract could benefit a position. >> it changes this pretty drastically too. >> a.i. is going to change all our markets and the way we intersect with fraud and manipulation. when we talk about public elections, and we talk about democracy, the integrity of democracy quite frankly and the health of our country, i don't think we want to -- >> now i wish you could look at polls. there is pollsters that go from a plus to f minus i think. and even the a plus i think had 17-point difference in wisconsin. it was one point. i was -- one reason i liked the betting sites, i don't believe a lot of the polls. now i can't believe either. there is no way -- the deviation -- the standard deviation is so big on either that they're useless. everything is useless. >> i would say -- joe, i wouldn't say totally useless, but this might go back to my point about if there is a real strong demand and desire to do this, then we should think about it at the state level. elections are largely handled at

the state level, and like i said, you know, in the uk this is sanctioned under gambling, we should do the same if this is really what people want. >> what about folks who step in -- ireland has a big operation, all the stuff is offshore. >> yeah. it is sanctioned under gambling laws. >> i understand that. but the question is, do you want americans participating in that through all sorts of mechanisms which are happening anyway? >> so, becky to your point about a statement i made a few months ago or a few weeks ago, we have offshore betting sites that essentially offer services to u.s. customers. and if the services end up being derivatives contracts and you're not registered with us, then we have, you know, a right to bring enforcement action and we have done that in the past and we're constantly monitoring that. >> 40 days from an election what is going to happen, how are you going to do anything this time before the election? we're looking at the sites already on a regular basis. >> this is the enforcement mechanism of our agency. we have to build a case, get the

facts, we have to go to a court. so we do things in order, we do things with a very sort of particular process. and we don't hesitate. so if there are u.s. investors, u.s. customers being offered derivatives, without the entity being registered with us or letting us know, then we're going to bring an enforcement case. >> what could you do? could you shut them down? >> on one hand it is certainly fines on the civil side. there could be a criminal element to it, but that is outside of our jurisdiction. and then there is the deterrent factor. if we can levy enough fines depending on the scope of the allegation and the charges, that perhaps is going to put a -- >> let me ask you this, the announcement and the investigation itself, has that acted as a deterrent, have you seen any change in behavior? >> i think with the -- this has been going on within the cftc for over ten years. i think with the court challenge, there was a court decision by district court a few weeks ago, we appealed and the court of appeals in the district court in d.c., and i think

people are understanding that, you know, this is the position of the commission, we're not going to back off of it, we will respect the decision of the court, whatever it may be, but one would assume that acts as a deterrent for folks outside the scope of our regulatory regime that are maybe thinking twice about offering these products to u.s. investors. >> chairman behnam, thank you for visiting. >> thanks. good to see you guys. it is just past 7:00 a.m., about 7:03 on the east coast. you're watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i'm andrew ross sorkin with joe kernen and becky quick. among the top stories this morning on this wednesday morning, the union representing thousands of striking boeing workers saying their members overwhelmingly stand against the latest contract offer. boeing describing that offer as its best and its final. we'll see whether that's really the case. shares of kb home, they are lower. take a look at this. the home builder's fiscal third quarter missing forecasts. the company trimming high end of its gross profit margin outlook, but interestingly, things seem

to turn better toward the end of the quarter as mortgage rates came down. so we're going to keep our eye on that in the world of kb and so many of its competitors. carolyn ellison, the star witness in the prosecution of sam bankman-fried has now been sentenced in new york federal court to two years in prison and ordered to forfeit $11 billion. it was more than the prosecutors had asked of her. but the judge said, got to have a deterrent. checking the futures, which probably aren't influenced by a lot of these things, kind of weird, the dow is actually up and the nasdaq has pareed some of the premarket losses, adding to some of the gains we have seen in recent sessions. dom chu joins us with a look at some of the individual movers premarket. hey, dom. >> joe, becky, andrew, we'll kick things off with the key

analyst notes out this morning. tesla shares down about half a percent or so right now. this morning, despite piper sandler raising the stock's price target to $310 from $300. the firm anticipates tesla may sell more vehicles than it had previously expected. piper sandler also reiterated its overweight rating on those shares saying the third quarter could be tesla's best quarter for business in china ever. so those shares still down despite that positive commentary from piper. autos more broadly lower this morning after morgan stanley analysts led by adam jonas downgraded ford, general motors, rivian, magna and phinia and lowered the view to inline or neutral. morgan stanley saying the china butterfly effect is in play, saying the country produces more cars than it buys which upsets the competitive balance in markets in the west. the commentary pieces driving some auto stocks broadly lower to impart that morgan stanley call. for more on those calls and top

calls of the day, head over to cnbc.com/pro. we're going to end with a check on bank of america. shares down slightly, .1% after a new filing revealed that yet again warren buffett's berkshire hathaway is continuing to reduce its stake. it recently sold an additional $863 million worth of that stock. berkshire began trimming the investments in july. it now holds a roughly 10.5% stake in b of a shares. becky, keep an eye on those stocks. back over to you guys. >> dom, we will check in with you in just a little bit. meantime, when we come back, geopolitical tensions and the markets. palantir head of defense and former congressman mike gallagher joins us. and later, legendary investor lee cooperman will join us to talk markets and stock ideas, what he's seeing out there right now. "squawk box" will be right back.

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welcome back to "squawk box." smartphone sales in china dropping 12.7% in august to 1.87 million hand sets according to a reuters calculation based en data released from the chinese government business affiliated research firm. off 225 bucks right now. you can start to think about where apple stands in all of that driven by strong demand for domestic brands. joining us right now with a look at the markets is lindsey

rosser in, e rossner. lindsay, let's talk about what you're seeing out there, what you're interested in, where you think the moves are after the rate cut, everybody is rethinking things. >> absolutely. so what has been a big prevalent trade has been the idea of t-bill and chill, which is basically stay in t-bills, they're earning you 5% in change, you don't have to do the hard work, just stay there. and we very much have been advocating this whole year to extend duration, because that gig is going to be off at some point in time and that time is now. >> too late if you haven't done that already? >> it is not too late. there were more rern returns if extended duration earlier but you haven't missed the window. it is important to think about extending now. what is interesting is the first move typically after a fed cut is actually money into money market funds. you would have expected that it goes out the curve. actually first step is in, which is what we saw in 2020, that's exactly what has happened in the past week. and the next steps, which happen

later, are extending out the curve to more interesting products with intermediate duration. >> and you're seeing that at this point? >> we're seeing that. we saw 127 billion into money market funds in the past week. that's pretty big on a $6.5 trillion money market fund world. >> what is the average been over the last year or two? >> year to date, the flows are $500 billion, it has been sizable, if you compare one week versus what has happened all year, it has been a significant move. but this is the playbook of what happened in 2020. what is different, though, is that 2020 we weren't seeing a soft landing. and our expectation is the soft landing continues and in fact because we got this information from the fed last week and know a little bit more about the reaction function, we think actually it can be more confident about a soft landing than you could two weeks ago. >> even though people are wondering if the fed sees weakness in the labor markets and other places and even though you've got the potential for inflationary actions like some of the labor strikes that we're seeing right now, what that

might mean for the supply chain. >> inflation is moving in the right direction. they feel much more comfortable to use their words, they have confidence around it. but it doesn't mean i think a lot of people are saying the inflation proverbial beast has been slayed. i think that's a big of an exaggeration. inflation is absolutely something that you have to keep your eye on and the fed has not stopped watching it. what has happened is the concern about the labor market has ticked up. and that softness, we're certainly seeing in data, it will be interesting in the numbers that we get later on this week, inflation is something they need to watch, but it really is the job market that concerns them at this point in time, that could lead to potentially a recession, which, again, is in our base case. >> commercial real estate, that has been toxic as far as a lot of people are concerned. you've been more positive on that and seeing opportunities there. >> yes, it isn't the entire commercial real estate space that we like. we're very choiceful in choosing in terms of what we pick and what we think works. but certainly rate relief is

going to be very helpful to commercial real estate. and numbers that didn't work six months ago can start working, i mean, right now we have got 80 basis points of cuts priced in for the rest of the year, 2025, 100 basis points of cuts priced in. that can be some serious rate relief. >> when you say you're picky about where you would find these things, is that in certain categories, is it in certain cities, areas, what are the places you like? >> all of the above. specifically we really like multifamily, we like logistical warehouse, the places i say where the amazon boxes go before they go to your doorstep. but we even are finding interesting office properties. and in general you hear the office is dead, nobody is going back, that's hyperbole. there are absolutely interesting buildings that people want to be in, want to work in, and so it is about picking those trophy offices and to your point on cities, it is typically the

better cities i would say, the more active cities in the country. >> lindsay, thank you. >> thanks. whether we return, reaction to president biden's address at the united nations general assembly from palantir head of defense and former congressman mike gallagher. plus, a read on the housing market, the demand for mortgage refinancing surged 20% in the last week. "squawk box" coming right back. >> announcer: time now for today's aflac trivia question. what publicly adtred company was founded in 1977 as software development laboratories? the answer when "squawk box" returns. good thing i had aflac. (aflac duck) hmmm the cash i got from aflac helped pay for medical expenses, groceries, rent. it really helped close that gap. (whisper) go, go, go! (group) yay! go aflac! go duck! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. find an agent. get a quote at aflac.com. wish we had aflac on our team. you can! >> university of maryland (♪♪)

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>> announcer: now the answer to today's aflac trivia question. what publicly traded company was founded in 1977 as software development laboratories? the answer, oracle. on tuesday, president biden addressed the united nations general assembly and warned that we are at another inflection point in world history. >> i put forward with qatar and egypt a cease-fire and hostage deal. it has been endorsed by the u.n.

security council. now is the time for the parties to finalize its terms, bring the hostages home, and secure security for israel and gaza free of hamas' grip, ease the suffering in gaza and end this war. >> joining us now is mike gallagher, head of defense at palantir, former republican congressman representing wisconsin. do you see any path to ending this war? >> well, i think these knee jerk calls for a cease-fire, which the biden administration has been pushing since october 8th, actually bring us further away from an end to a war. i would like to propose a new theory of international relations called winning. you have to win the war in order to impose the terms of the peace. as for any action or resolution, the u.n. can take and biden's calls for such a resolution pertaining to a cease-fire, we have something called u.n. security council resolution 1701 which calls for complete disarmament of southern lebanon and lebanon and hezbollah has not disarmed.

and israel with remarkable audacity has actually reduced 50% of hezbollah's long range precision fires and we should support them in that effort and in the efforts to destroy hamas in the south. >> and what you're saying, what iran does in retaliation? >> i think the key source of disorder in the region is the fact that iran does not feel deterred. and the key problem that the next president, whether it is donald trump or kamala harris will have to solve is how do we restore a semblance of deterrence? degrading and deterring hezbollah and what the united states can do is destroying another terrorist iranian proxy, the houthi rebels, which, have completely shut down commerce in and around the red sea and we are now on the wrong side. our enemies are counting down the bullets in our chamber. all of this depends on our ability to rebuild our entire defense industrial base, which this conflict and the conflict in eastern europe has revealed

as broken. >> mike, is it purely partisan, political talk to try to assign some blame to the biden administration? because they took off the sanctions in february of 2021, the u.n. sanction, hasn't enforced the -- they're rolling in money in iran right now to be able to fund all these proxies. why is that a stretch to say that this was on the biden administration? >> i don't think it is a partisan hack attack. it is simple, cause and effect we delist the houthis, we prevent the government from selling offensive weapons to the saudis to go after the houthis and they re-emerge as a -- just like a two-bit terrorist organization, one capable of attack the united states navy. that's a fair attack. but i do think biden's speech is an opportunity for us to take a step back and assess this administration's overall foreign

policy record. >> but the rational was that the 2015 pact that trump exited that this would make it easier to get back. so there was like a method to the appeasement, wasn't there? but it didn't work, you would say? >> i think iran is closer to the turnkey away from having a nuclear weapon than it was at the start of this administration. the trump administration i think would argue that a policy of maximum economic pressure was bearing fruit, iran's economy is very weak. if you don't pair that policy with a robust deterrent in the region, it is not going to have an effect. that's the challenge going forward. >> would you ascribe anything with putin and ukraine to saying that we would be okay with them taking a little bit of -- remember he said that, and a week later -- >> i think all these things are connected. >> you do? >> draw a direct line from the biden administration's decision to withdraw from afghanistan for purely political reasons, and

that was the president overruling his political -- his military advisers, i think that had an impact on putin's calculus in eastern europe, and on general global disorder and on the deteriorating balance of power in the most important region, the indo-pacific. >> back to the middle east, with where we are right now, and with israel making these incursions into lebanon to try and push hezbollah back with the missile that they launched that hezbollah launched into tel aviv essentially last night, one missile, the expectation is they have a lot more. what happens now? because netanyahu's decision to push forcefully, where does that get us? and obviously they were dealing with attacks from october 8th coming from hezbollah. but what about now? >> i think the overriding political objective in israel is to return israelis to the north of the country. that -- until you actually force a disarmament in key parts of southern lebanon, it doesn't have to completely comply with

1701 that i mentioned before, that's going to be very difficult. you don't want israelis being -- >> is this different than before? are we closer to an all-out war breaking out -- >> in the middle east, for the last two decades, we're always on the knife's edge of an all-out war. the path to peace in my opinion eventually runs through tehran. you have to deter the primary adversary in the region and the thing that unites the israelis and the reason we're seeing a historic level of reproachment and cooperation between israelis and suni or arab gulf states is because of the shared path from iran. you have to build a regional strategy around deterring iran, otherwise nothing else -- >> if iran had the bomb right now, would it be a different situation with israel right now? they seem to be -- they don't really want to engage to the full extent that they could. they actually have shown restraint, which doesn't seem to go at all with what you think of when you say iran, but they had the -- >> they could be hoping that the

next administration has a more friendly policy with respect to iran or continues to hope that by just merely reviving the lifeless corpse of the obama iran deal that somehow will we have deterrence in the region. i think the last three years have proven that's not true. they could be waiting us out. >> could i ask a different question, a question i asked froman about it is a political u.s. question about who is in the white house and how much -- no, no -- and how much that person just through jaw boning and presence can deter anything. meaning, there is this sort of idea you hear from former president trump, if he was in this role, none of -- >> talking about concrete things like sanctions and -- >> but -- >> you mean just being crazy. >> not crazy. no, no. >> jaw boning and -- >> through sort of force of personality. do you believe that through force of personality alone can

change the dynamic inter internationally in these geopolitical tension points? >> i do -- it matters. there is an old saying attributed to frederick the great or freddie mercury, diplomacy without armaments is like music without instruments, right? it needs to be backed by the credible threat of force. but the president's credibility or the perception of presidential power besides the conventional amount of military hard power is the variable that matters most. i think there is a legitimate question now as to who is in charge. and i worry particularly about this transition period between the election and january 20th, i worry our adversaries, the chinese communist party may try to take advantage of that moment, we are internally divided and at war with ourself. >> how would that manifest itself, talking about taiwan now? you think that's on the table, come this christmas basically? >> with the caveat that nobody knows what lurks in the dark

mind and heart of xi jinping, i said on yourshow before that we have entered the window of maximum danger and the minute he thinks he can achieve his life long ambition, which is to take taiwan by force if necessary, he will do it. and we're uniquely vulnerable in this period now. it gets back to the core point, ukraine, october 7th, all of these things should have been a massive wake-up call, a sputnik moment for america to rearm, reindustrialize, we went from being the arsenal of democracy to the dmv of democracy. our all ies who purchased weapos from us are waiting for -- >> do you think if this country is going to be destabilized effectively in the months of november and december, who do you put that on? >> the president is in office, right? he is in charge. he's still -- >> we're already there. we're already there now. >> it sounds to me like you're suggesting there could be a period of time in this country where we are genuinely

destabilized because people don't know, i think -- you're saying right now because you don't think that biden -- with the program? is that what you're trying to suggest? >> you saw the debate. >> what i thought he was suggesting was that there could be a -- >> you think it is trump and january 6th or something. >> i think that's a huge part of the destabilizing. >> i'm worried about the president right now. >> what worries me is there an element of both parties right now that is sort of embracing more isolationist view of the world. this idea we had unsatisfying conclusions to wars in iraq and afghanistan, there is a lot of skepticism about our ability to continue to support ukraine and the solution is for us to retreat. time and again history has shown that is a bad look and a bad strategy. we need to somehow regain our self-confidence, abandon this self-loathing and recognize we are the good guys. there are enemies that are trying to destroy us and our allies and we have to sh bpuack

aggressively. >> mike, thank you for joining us this morning. great to see you. we're coming right back after this.

nice shot of -- i don't want to say gloomy, but overcast new york city during unga week, overcast with a lot of traffic as starbucks new ceo brian nichol saying he's committed to engaging constructively with store workers who voted to unionize. starbucks continuing contract negotiations this week. in a letter, he says he's deeply respects the rights of employees to choose to be represented by a union. earlier this month he said he would work to improve the culture at starbucks' stores. meta holding its annual connect conference today, a year after launching the quest 3 mixed reality headset, sxexpanding th product line with a cheaper line. meta may show off the orion ar

glasses the company has been teasing for a while and we could hear more about a.i. futures for the ray ban meta smart glasses. a lot more coming up on "squawk box." tracking the 2024 presidential tax plans, a pair of policies and talk about what ea cldchou mean for your money. and later, leon cooperman joins us. "squawk box" is coming right back after this. amelia, unlock the door. i'm afraid i can't do that, jen. ♪ (suspenseful music) ♪ why not? did you forget something? ♪ (suspenseful music) ♪ my protein shake. the future isn't scary. not investing in it is. you're so dramatic amelia. bye jen. nasdaq-100 innovators. one etf. before investing, carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com.

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presidential candidates kamala harris and donald trump are sharing more details of their economic proposals as the election draws closer. joining us to discuss what we know so far, pwc's rohit kumar and professor at yale law school and yale school of management natesha sarin. let's start with you, rohit, you're here on set. i would normally say which group of proposals is bet ter. in this case, i'm sorry, i'm going to, you know, out myself, i think we have to ask which case is actually worse. i don't -- i'm not going to ask which is better. which is less bad in your view?

>> they both have pros and cons. both have -- both candidates that have policies that raise a lot of money and both sets of policies that money would, even though the check is being written by the importer on the case of the tariff or company in the case of a corporate rate who actually bears the burden of the tax is actually like regular workers, right, customers of companies, workers who work at a company, you invest in a company, more than 61% of the population owns shares in a company, so there is, you know, both sides are trying to make the argument that mine comes from the money tree at the end of the double rainbow somewhere over, wherever. that's not true. there is a disingenuity at some level that my money is free money, but your money is -- >> i didn't hear any pros there, rohit. do you have any pros? maybe you do. let me ask it this way. let's say -- since we're all saying, hey, it is going to be divided government, not to worry, neither one of these candidates is going to get what

they're saying done. but what if it did happen? what if everything each candidate has proposed actually happened? which is worse? >> i guess i kind of disagree with rohit in that i think there is a pretty big substantive difference between these two candidates. in donald trump, you have basically like a no taxes on everything approach. it is no taxes on tips, no taxes on social security, no taxes on -- no taxes to the tune of $10 trillion of unfinanced deficit increases. and in kamala harris, you have just a much more fiscally responsible approach. you have her saying she wants to invest in growing the american families, in expanded child tax credit, you have her saying she wants to invest in small businesses, the engines of growth in the american economy. and she is going to pay for that. and so it is just a fundamentally fiscally different

approach, one is fiscally responsible and the other isn't, and that's why i think you have 88 business leaders, you have 68 nobel laureates in economics, you have tax experts on both sides saying in this election, it is not a close call, there is one candidate you should trust with the economy, and fiscal responsibility and that's kamala harris. >> whoa. wow. you got anything after that, rohit? >> yeah, look, i mean, yes, there are a whole bunch of tax increases and vice president harris' campaign proposal, but those taxes would largely were born by the middle class. this is not an argument about, you know, and moreover, many of the proposals that former president trump has indicated like no taxes on tips, vice president harris has adopted that as well because we are in a campaign, and politicians will say things in campaigns, but when we get to the end of next year, we have $4.5 trillion of tax relief that is expiring. that's the issue on the table. and the question is, are we going to pay for it, deficit finance it, some of that stuff not going to get extended, my

guess it is going to be some combination of those three levers. those are the levers on the table and that's the serious conversation. >> we could be totally fiscally responsible and raise the marginal rate to 90% on rich people, we could go -- take corporate taxes back to 40%. do you ever ask the other side to -- are there any consequences to taking the money out of the private sector, innovation and entrepreneurs and business formation? >> you can take all the money from all the people and no one would engage in economic activity. >> that would be fiscally prudent. >> you would run the economy into the ground. >> there must be some middle ground. natasha, you see what i'm saying? you want to raise -- >> yeah, no. >> you don't think any of the trump tax cuts are responsible for the strong economy we have right now? the corporate tax cut, no benefits from what we saw in 2017? none? >> so, i don't think you have to just trust me, i think you can kind of trust the empirical

evidence here, which is the best work that i've seen on this has come out of economists princeton and chicago, eric swick and they say the trump tax cutswere mechanical decrease of 40% in corporate tax revenue, and to be fair, you did see some growth increase and what you saw is that growth increase offset maybe 2 percentage points of that 40% decline. and so i think there is just frankly space with respect to raising corporate tax rates, part of the reason why i think there is some space here is the corporate tax rate today is 21%. business round table when tcj was being legislated, they were going for a 25% rate. the u.s. raises something like 6% of its taxes from corporate taxes, the average is like 12%. so there is just space here and revenue here to be had in a pro growth way, which is -- >> how much more -- there is a

significant -- there has been a significant increase in corporate taxes between 2017 and -- >> breaking records. >> breaking records. >> breaking records. let me fill in, we have nice economic research, i've got economic research that would -- >> that reminded me of climate models. >> let's look at real data. real data. post tcga, real wages increased by $6,000. faster than the last 10 years, prior ten years combined. unemployment record like lowest since we started measuring -- >> lower than it is now. >> there is some -- there is some models, you get multiple economists, multiple answers, the real data would tell you this had a real growth effect on the economy and it particularly helped lower income workers. so the proposal we're going to retrench on all of that and that's going to come at no economic cost, it just doesn't hold water. >> there is -- if you add everything and kamala harris did

say she's not going to tax tips either, if you add everything else in, with the social security and the overtime and i mean this is -- it looks -- i think what they did that on "happy days," hasn't there been a shark-jumping moment in trump's proposal? >> we're in a campaign that is going to be very tightly divided, 15, 20,000 voters across seven, eight states are going to decide who is president and so it is not unusual in this election cycle, in any election cycle, in the throes of the campaign, politicians will -- >> natasha, part of your fiscal responsibility is untaxing on unrealized capital gains, the way you get to the fiscal responsibility you're talking about and kamala harris' plan. >> so, with unrealized gains, you know, i think rohit is right, we're in a campaign, you're going to see lots of proposals. what i've been excited about and i hope you all are too is, like, we're having like a serious policy debate about a real problem, which is that if you're like larry ellison, and you're a

billionaire, you founded oracle, you've done a ton of good for the economy, you're worth $140 billion and you can just consume out of those gains without ever paying taxes on it by doing things like borrowing against them. and that's a real problem. by the way, when you die, what you can do is just pass on your unrealized gains and any tax liability is wiped out because you passed them on to your heirs because we have a step basis. there is a real policy problem here. we can debate and i know you all have been debating and i've gotten to do some of it with you, the particulars about what approach is best, but this is a problem and it is a problem that frankly needs to be solved not just for revenue -- >> do we agree it is a problem? >> i think taking a flyer on the 16th amendment and saying all this unrealized income is income and we should tax it raises real serious -- >> what would you do about the larry ellison/musk conundrum?

>> i think musk paid $11 billion in one year. >> that's when he sold the stock. >> he founded a company and paid -- >> elizabeth warren and all her constituents will never pay $11 billion in taxes. >> understood. but he's had great success and he's done it in this country. and i have great -- i admire a lot of things he's done. that's not the issue. my question to you about unrealized gains, where people are taking massive loans against their stock, which is the equivalent of income, so they can avoid the tax and then the step up at death. what do you think of that, as a policy problem? >> i'm not convinced that it is a huge policy problem because for this reason. >> okay. >> the amount of revenue we are talking about to the federal government is a rounding error. we're going to spill a lot of blood to raise, like, pennies, maybe pennies. >> let me ask you a question about that. you can make that same argument about carried interest, for example, if you wanted to. the question then is, are we deciding that there are just special people who are -- we're

supposed to give special breaks to, you know, if you're in the private equity industry, do you think you're a special person who is supposed to get a different break than the teacher or the nurse who is actually doing something -- by the way, elon musk doing extraordinary work and a teacher and nurse doing extraordinary work and we're benefiting one over the other because why? >> so, it is not a question of because why. i live -- i worked in government for 15 years. i have an acute sense of, you know, where are you going to extend your political capital, your political bandwidth to treat the maximum good and i'm not convinced -- >> this is an efficiency play for you. >> time is the most scarce resource at some level. >> do you think the tax policy as a policy is supposed is the man tifestation of democracy at all. you would want the american people to think this system is fair, and we keep talk about it

being rigged. one thing former president trump says is the system is rigged. when you say you don't care about going after things that are effectively -- you're saying hey it is rigged but it takes too much of my time and attention to deal with the riggedness of it all. when you talk about law and order and everything else -- >> do you think that 49% of the people in the country should have no skin in the game whatsoever, paying no taxes. is that fair? >> well, the question therefore is do you think -- you're saying you don't think we have a tax policy? >> i think we have a really progressive system. i think we do very well in terms of -- >> to me, what you just did is a what aboutism. and what i'm saying is, no, no, look, we can decide if we want progressive taxes or not. >> everybody should be involved and they're not. >> okay. but then what do you want to do about that? >> not sure. >> want to raise taxes? tell me you want to raise taxes on the -- >> it is never going to be fair because that's a word that -- >> tell me you want to raise the

taxes on the teachesers and nurses, tell me. >> half the country does not pay -- these guys, the really rich ones, there is a loophole because of what you're saying. but most of the time -- >> i'm a great beneficiary of -- we're paying a lot. what i'm saying is you think it is fair -- you think it is fair that larry ellison, god bless him, he's created a lot of jobs and other things, pays the equivalent of probably close to -- i don't know what his tax rate is, but i'm assuming under 20%. >> there is a lot of inequity in the tax system. >> 8% on average for billionaires. >> scoop it out, make -- >> the top .1% paid higher rates than anyone else in the country. so there are -- how many people are there that are in this position? 30?

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box." a look at the price of bitcoin this morning below the 65,000 dollar level. cryptocurrency up 140% in the last year. joining you founder and ceo professional capital management author of "how to live and extraordinary life." i'm holding the book. a compilation of letters he wrote to this children. i want to start what is happening in crypto land. a big move obviously. happened after the fed lowered interest rates effectively or cut the rate by 50 basis points. how much of this is now built in to the rest of the year? meaning we know that the cuts are likely to continue. therefore, is 64,000 or 63,000 going to stay level or keep

going up? goes down? what do you see? >> i think if we look at that fed interest rate cut, bitcoin is the best performing asset. gold, oil futures second. a new study out said bitcoin is the most sensitive asset when it comes to global liquidity. 83% of the time bitcoin move it's with global liquidity. look at interest rates cuts, into money supply expanding and cuts going on in china and elsewhere. bitcoin a big winner, whenever cheap money flows into the system and feels we went through a big regime change. now go the other way. so bitcoin should be a big winner the next couple months. >> in terms of the "flows" if you when, how much has come in by the etfs in the past week and a half and how much has come in direct? >> it's really hard to tell kind of exactly what's pushing the price, if you will. then also you have to understand

there's a lot of trading going on. people are putting on different kind of cash and carry trades. things like that. how many people are actually buying bitcoin, holding it long term versus trying to trade. >> what i'm trying to understand. a version of this and sort of a specialized community i assume gets -- sort of, not pushed out. over time you would think. expand and then get into a more -- might actually create some kind of price discovery in a different way? >> interesting is, in bull markets, look on chain. basically, go through a bear market. buys bit con holds on tight don't move it a year or two. and then clearing, sell bitcoin into a bull market. we've started to see selling of bitcoin as we broke over $60,000 earlier in the year. still more than 50% of all bitcoin is held over a year and not moving on chain. the best signal. >> you asked -- >> no, i wasn't. >> apologize.

you're a bitcoin maximalist. >> i wouldn't put myself in the bitcoin maximalist bucket. bitcoin is a big winner in areas. also i think there's going to be a lot of other technologies end up being valuable. ethereum for me last year sold all of that and solana instead. cheaper, faster. >> you think actually that become as true financial network? talking about payments. >> i don't necessarily think of it -- crypto, two revolutions. monetary. see money and bitcoin and the stable coins and a technology revolution. do you need a blockchain or not is up for debate. >> maybe a curveball. visa, a monopoly? >> payments in general a good job. hard to get excited when people yell and screen about monopo

monopolies. people using other products. how monopoly a big number two or three? people using all kinds of different technologies. sure, are they good, big? yes. at this point a monopoly means you are "the" winner. i don't think you can say that. >> a bunch of letters to children. when did you start doing this? >> about two years ago. >> is there one letter, dare i ask, you actually think is "the" letter? >> and advice -- >> maybe the one people kind of are most surprised by is there's a letter in there about "luck is not real." thought process luck is a process. hit by a car lose a leg. smim visiting you in the hospital. so unlucky to be walk ago cross the street. sitting in the same hospital bed also lost my leg, asks me. i'm so lucky to be alive. think of it, luck is a thing we

point to talking about probability. it's something we control. if you can shift mindset or perspective usual he ends up a more optimistic position in life. >> "how to live an extraordinary life." thank you. >> thank you. just after 8:00 on the east coast. you are watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. rime becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. the top stories, vice president kamala harris expected to lay out of her economic vision for country and the key battle state of pennsylvania, there today. and harris campaign billing it as a major speech following a speech from former president trump in georgia yesterday in which trump said he would cut manufacturers tax rates if elected again. former cryptocurrency executive caroline ellison sentenced to two years behind bars for her rot role in the massive ftx fraud that took down her boyfriend, sam bankman-fried. the judge in the case wanted to

deter others from committing fraud. and warren buffett's berkshire hathaway sold share for about $860 manage. still bank of america's biggest shareholder owning more than 10% in that company. futures right now, well, about ten points higher on the dow. nasdaq up about, off 30 and s&p 500 off a point for a little more on the markets and where we are now, mike santoli is at the new york stock exchange. mike? >> yeah, anandrew. s&p 500, post fed rally of a week ago. progress to the upside from there. you see sort of slow. slightly in that last little bit. show the year-to-date. yesterday's up side, a 20%-plus rear-to-date gain so far including dividends, past that.

two straight 20% up years in a year if ended here. not unprecedented but rare. doesn't happen all that often. august a big rebound rally off the pullback flattening towards end of the month. following month tur bulenceturb. see if that fits next week. china stimulus news, non-u.s. indexes popping and outperforming for a change opinion you see s&p 500 over the course of the last two years along with, this is the russell 1000 value index. u.s. valley stocks. on the far end that is every index outside the u.s. msci world index excluding the u.s. you see over this period of time the rest of the world looks like american values stocks. means don't have the cap platforms driving returns here. you like value, think fed cutting into a soft landing is a reason for perhaps value out

performance probably applies to non-u.s. stocks not just u.s. ones. semis versus banks over the last year. similar spot. ended up. look at the massive out performance of semiconductors. coming together. both bellwether groups, tend to perform in different ways. bounce in semis yesterday buffered the index after the consumer confidence number. see how this relationship proceeds from he. >> that relationship you showed before. u.s. versus basically the rest of the world. that's going to be the interesting one to see when they meet. is it a recursion to the mean? catch up from the rest of the world? what are your early thoughts? >> first thought, if they meet not when. a chronic idea that non-u.s. stocks look cheaper, less loved. under-owned. i think that, doesn't have to be

one or the other. doesn't have to be a crash or an up-crash by nine u.s. stocks but i think it's interesting that you have had the nasdaq 100-type stocks, magnificent seven stocks making progress over the last few months, and yet the rest of the market managed to hang in there. that typically suggests that there is dry powder in non-u.s. indexes as well. the global economy, of course, if it hangs in there. >> okay. mike santoli, thanks. meantime, mortgage brokers suddenly are getting busy as rates drop. diana olick joins us with more. >> becky. safe to say we can call this a little refi boom compared to what we've seen in the past years. applications to refinance a home loan surged 20% last week compared with the previous week. that according to the mortgage bankers association's seasonally adjusted index. demand stunning 175% higher than the same week a year ago. this is the average rate on the 30-year fix. dropped again to 6.13% from

6.15. loans 20% down. rate was 128 basis points higher same week a year ago. 7.41%. eighth straight week of declines and fha rate fell just below 6% 2 . refinance share of applications rose to just over 55%. while the jump compared with a year ago is large and the share is now majority of total mortgage demand, level of refinance activity still modest compared to prior refis. by the way, we know, of course, is vast majority of borrowers have loans with interest rates well below 5%. mortgage applications to buy a home. up just 1% for the week. 2% higher than same week a year ago. buyers facing high home prices and limited supply of homes for sale. interesting. the average loan sizes were higher forepurchase and refinance applications. pushing the overall average loan size to the highest in the

survey's history. 413,100 dollars, beck. >> looking at numbers doesn't change supply and demand. what would it take to see emptiers getting back in there? the thought eventually rates come down, see movement or not? >> more supply in the market. whether from home builders or sellers. as rates come down and those sellers feel locked in feel, okay, maybe i can put my home on the market. again, rates in 3, 4 percentage range and don't want to sell. i do. disappointing earnings weaker new ordered than expected. lennar, heard from the chairman last week. people are waiting on sidelines because rates are falling and wait until they go lower. right? >> right to think that? joe's made the very observant point that mortgage rates are based on ten year. ten year has gone up. fed can't control that part.

>> exactly. saw rates go up after the fed cut. not by a lot, but a little built. the trajectory is still lower. the expectations is that while they may move up week to week a little different every day they will move lower over the next couple months as the fed cuts. again, we're not going to see 3 and 4% rates. no question. >> right. diana olick, thank you. news just out. flu flutter entertainment announcing a buyback. a big commitment. a time investors pressing online gaming firms to demonstrate's consistent profitability and a filing flutter laying out the case for the u.s. to have a total addressable market of $63 billion. 1.5 times greater than the previous estimate. don't miss an interview later this morning with flutter ceo peter jackson. famous name. 10:00 a.m. eastern.

on "squawk on the street." coming up, a pair of interviews in a few minutes speak with a legendary investor lee cooperman. later, co-founder and top vice president harris supporter, joining us with thoughts on the vice president's economic plan. stay tuned. you're watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc. (wind, rain and rolling thunder) (♪♪) nobody's born with grit. british anncr: rose is really struggling. it's something you build over time. american anncr: that's twenty-one missed cuts in a row. (car trunk slammed shut) for eighty-nine years, morgan stanley has offered clients determination and forward thinking to create the future... crowd: stop it! ...only you can see. american anncr: rose, back in the winner's circle. (crowd cheers) (♪♪)

sdploo. our next guest is a market veteran. despite daily new highs is let bullish than the consensus. lee curooperman joins us. lee is chairman and ceo of omega family office. good to have you on today. >> thank you. pleasure to be with you. how you doing? >> doing good. it's 8:15. made it through most of the morning so far. lee, let me ask you. you have been concerned about the market and the heights of the market for some time.

you've been warning that things could take a turn down and that you are less optimistic than others. we keep hitting new highs, and i wonder, when do you think things would potentially be offset? i know you're still not convinced that good times are here to stay? >> yeah. very concerned about two things. one is the debt buildup. we have two candidates running for office. neither one talks about the deficit or the build up of debt. in 2017 i think our national debt was $20 trillion. seven years later it's $34 trillion. that's a growth rate far an excess of the growth rate of the economy, and it's gogsz ing to problem one day. we don't know the problem but probably when we least expect it. secondly i would say what's kept me involved in the market is the ten-year bond belonged to 3.6 rate currently little in the

markets overvalued. 3.76 reflective of a coming recession. if it's 3.76, recession, very little overvalued. now, i go back to 1972, 50-50, when the market selling, a much bigger multiple than selling at now and 6.5%. 2000, then present day nvidia, 380 times earnings. and in 2000, what is -- also 6%. so 3.76, nothing overvalued. very little overvalued. >> so has the fed cutting rates pushed you into a position where you're going to be putting a lot more into stocks? >> no. i'm fully invested, but invested in merchandise. 20% position in bond. i think the government's behave

sir disgraceful. discussed about it before. complicated. about 15% energy. what's going on in the middle east, i think energy would be a place to have some money. and then a lot of special situations. so i'm not saying a lot of cash. fed cutting rates, cutting rates on the short endand i think the long rate will go up. ten-year rates will go up as the fed reduces short rates. back to this. >> does that make sense to you? the fed cut rates, looking where you see the economy? >> yeah. i would say that short rates are too high. relative. you know, historically, the ten-year government bond is non-yield gdp. real growth about 2.5% inflation 2.5, 5% gdp. d ten year not overvalued at 5% yield. it would be undervalued.

i think rates would go higher. short end, you know, maybe you get 125 basis points of inflation. so rate doesn't belong at the current 5%. so i think the fed will cut short rates. not making much difference. only use short rate to discount a long duration asset. >> so your concerns about when we will have a problem on our hands in terms when people won't buy the government debt, as you said, probably coming at the time we least expect it? how do you prepare yourself for that? >> well, i think -- look, i may be too old. take me out behind the barn and shoot me. i'm 81 years old. been flthrough a couple bubbles. 2000 bubble and in 1972 bubble. and the bear market loses, loses, wins.

i would think that, preparing, i think stocks are the best place to be. avoid bonds. and just don't know the timing. just don't know the timing. in 1972, two very similar -- peter peterson and henry fowlie used to run fudge-page ads in the journals and times warning about deficit. here we are, what? 50 years later. only significant has been lowest interests rates in our lifetime. i don't any it's sustainable. in the '70s, assisting in fighting two wars. no one's focused on reducing the deficit, and we're going to hope we have crowding out. that's my view. very concerned. concerned about the election outcome. two people running for election out here, neither one talking

about fiscal issues. we got to finance these wars. not thinking about -- whether the market forces one day -- who the hell knows. i think it when. that leads to my conservatism. and very conservative. i think the market at 2121, 22 times earnings, my view, doesn't exist. finding plenty of things to do in the market. to be hoecnest with you. you have to look at, leads me to be cautious. everybody talks about stock repurchase. i just observe the wise man does what the fool does in the end. how many billions of stock, backed? intel now on government assistance, and, you know, bed bath & beyond, a great retailer, in bankruptcy. so there's no magic.

only makes sense to buy back stock if its cheap. and so far into a bull market make stock isn't cheap, make you're making a mistake. >> talk about the things you finding to do. 15% in energy. because you worry what's happening in the middle east and think that will potentially drive energy prices higher, where are you looking? where have you invested most? >> i have two large positions in two canadian oil and gas companies. paramount resources for a while and 7% stock yield. they have virtually no debt. producing $31 oil a barrel. increasing production. go from 100, 1,000 days production to probably 150,000 over the next few years. debt-free company. current dividend yields about 7%. financed better than cash.

another company run by a very smart guy. michael rose of -- of -- one of the largest oil and gas producers in canada. stock yield of 5%. run by a very smart guy. and i would think that given what's going on in the middle east there's a risk that oil prices move higher than we think. one that i have a very big position in, but it's complicated. a company called laga doesodoes lagado. kra created the market for $1 billion. end of the day, i think bonds are mistrusted.

i have market to market loss, but the bonds, first leading bonds, which i have a big position in, created around 16 cents on the dollar. capitalize $1 billion. the company, $40 billion lawsuit. right up front they say evidence that the government lied under oath. evidence the government using -- made a sale of the company very difficult. if youty you can't do business with the u.s. government. if you buy it. this case is moving along, end of the day. recently the judge presiding over the case issued a directive to both the company -- the government and the company, to respond to seven questions, and had to respond. i think by september 8th. so they've already responded. and if you read the responses, they seem to be very much in fi

favor of the company. right now buy the bonds at 15 or 16. getting 17 points peak interest a year, i realize worth zero if the company loses the case. win the case, 85 points of cap appreciation in the bonds, then get 17 points of interest. even if it takes three years. i don't mind. >> talk about what you've said about the election. you don't particularly care for either of these candidates. do you think it make as difference who wins in terms of how the stock market will react? >> i think the stock market is reflecting a divided government. the stock market's acting like -- whoever wins the presidency, congress will be in a different direction. and that's possible. you know, in 1976, i'll be very open, even though we have a system that -- in 1976 i does not vote for trump or clinton. i voted mitt romney. 2020 voted for biden. trump, who's economic ideas are

superior to harris. see, i'm a strange bird. i work very hard on giving away all my money. not half. giving away automll my money. i'm sympathetic to people that don't have it and trying to make the world a better place, but, you know, harris, you don't know what she stands for. seems she wants to give away fish and i don't think people have fish. i don't want give away fish. want to teach people how to fish. big difference. trump, he's a bit of a head case. 20 people in the past in the past administration typically very close all wouldn't vote for him. he has issues. so, you know, i can't ignore that. plus i think i've said in the past that, you know, he -- he mocked the "new york times" report with cerebral palsy. you don't do that. he mocked john mccain.

a true war hero, my opinion. mocked nikki haley. serving with distinction in the middle east and denies having said this but people would say otherwise, that he talked about the heroes that gave up their life in world war ii were suckers. he denies having said that. having said that i ran a democratic forum which is 80 pages long. read the republican platform, 22 pages long. the republican platform resonates more with me. my intention voting strictly republican in house and senate but not vote are to a president. i don't think either candidate is suitable to be president and hoping we have a divided government even at this time we need a unified government and have to work together. >> it's a ka conundrum, lee. good to see you. >> stay well.

bye-bye. >> you, too. coming up, the latest on the boeing's workers strike. not pleased with employer's latest offer. >> and co-founder blair effron a big supporter of vice president harris' run for the white house and one of her key advisers. stay tuned. you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc. for the at&t internet, it's super-fast so, any pre-launch concerns? what if nobody buys them? that's mean or, what if everybody buys them? oh, i hadn't thought of that that's probably not gonna happen can we handle that kind of traffic? the network can handle it! i downloaded eight hours of true crime stories just during our last video call i'm learning a lot you'll find them in cities, towns and suburbs all across america. millions of americans who have medicare and medicaid but may be missing

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welcome back to "squawk box." a federal judge ruling a new york city law requiring food delivery companies to share customer data with restaurants is unconstitutional. the judge sided with doordash. grubhub and uber eats saying the law violates the first

amendment. and law adopted in 2021 as new york city tried to help restaurants recover from themund. d companies argues privacy rights. could use it for marketing purposes. interesting case, guys. because i don't know how much you focused on this. this is the story. how much does apple know and how much does apple or grubhub, google, need to share with underlying people using their services? buying products from whomever but through another platform. >> and how much as a consumer sd sdo i have to say in this? >> zero. >> that's not true. yes and no. you log on to the thing and you consent to a screen you can't read. >> the problem -- can't read it and if you don't consent you can't get in. biggest rip-off. my car is still sending me

notifications it is sending out information and repeatedly asked hem to stop doing this and the dealer can't even help me. don't sign up for an app or don't do any of these things it. >> really boring and really nothing to get from me. >> watch out watching your driving. >> my driving's better, lately. had issues. you know? >> you have mellowed. >> in terms of -- >> in terms of what? >> you bring out the best in me, andrew. the union -- or worse --. let me do this again. union representing striking machinists says a survey shows workers are against the latest offer from the plane maker. workers criticized boeing giving them until friday night only to ratify the plan and delivered to

them without any discussion. boeing described the proposal as its best and final offer. >> how much time do you need to consider a proposal if it costs $100 billion a week to be out? >> right. the other thing is, we know there's, like, in real estate buyers and sellers markets. i think it's a -- i think the union kind of is in the driver's seat. >> the union thinks so, too. >> to have the other side posturing as if they can dictate terms. when someone says to you -- >> take it or leave it. >> -- this offer goes away as of -- you know -- >> hard to -- all right. when we come back should americans expect lower prices for the weight-loss and diabetes drugs wegovy and ozempic. after the break, top takeaways from the croeo's day in congres. don't go anywhere. "squawk box" will be right back.

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welcome back to "squawk box." right here on cnbc. futures right now, dow up marginally. ten points. nasdaq off 20 points and s&p 500 off almost -- prefer it.

treasuries ten year note at 3.768. two year down to 3.543. joe? novo novo nordisk grilled b high prices of weight-loss drug wegovy and diabetes treatment and ozempic. part of an exchange, should be good, between senator bernie sanders and novo's ceo lars jorgenson helping illustrate the complicated nature of his issue. jorgenson referencing other key players in the health care system, like insurance companies and pharmacy managers or pbms. >> you are prepared to lower list prices in the united states? >> i have to understand what this entails because when i hear statements pbms will accept by

its product it needs to go all the way to patients. that means that they talk about insurance companies being their clients, it's actually their owners. so it needs to get to insurance schemes and it needs to get to the patients. >> all right. joining us now with more is louise chen, cantor fitzgerald senior analyst. it's their fault. that's all i keep hearing. but we do come back to pharmacy benefit managers a lot, and i'm trying to figure out, is there a, a public policy solution? is there a free market solution? what needs to be done, do you think? because some relief would be nice, if we're paying $1,400 a more or something and people in europe are paying $92 a month? >> okay. well, short of it is, there is no simple pollution. i've been a drug analyst for decades and sense i joined

trying to figure this out. these drugs, street has to be patient. negotiation coming in 2025 likely that this will show up on the list. one of the top spend drugs for medicare. secondly, supply increases. these companies don't have the supply yet. lillie just able to immediate backlog orders second quarter but no dtc advertising. if they do, over shoot on demand fund. novo has doses on limited supply. supply increases, as drug price negotiation comes to light and also as new products make it to market, there are a lot. a huge line behind novo and lilly we'll see affordability and access increase for consumers. >> everybody's going to look after their own self-interests. pbms. many times i think that drug companies might provide a

product that's the best value in town for chronic illnesses and that we need to embrace the innovation. are there some bad actors that try to extend patent protection by an extended release version? or, i saw lina khan the other day talk about certain delivery mechanisms for these drugs you can patent one of those small part of something to extend patent production. is there egregious examples of what these drug companies actually are doing? because i tend to come down on their side most of the time. >> a great question. i think historically there has been. but the drug system has changed a lot. we've really moved towards value-based pricing. if someone were to tweak a molecule to stay on market and charge a high price, i don't think the market would go for that and players smart enough to understand that. >> that's not happening, and how

long before the, these prices get to a point where you no longer have bernie sanders and people demagoguing the issue? >> i'm not sure that people will stop demagoguing drug prices. like i said, i've been in this industry for decades and that's always been an issue. but in terms of affordability and accessibility for consumers, around the corner. a few years we'll see that. especially as these oral drugs get approved and make it to market. a big turning point for cost in this industry. >> i mean, these are, could have a wide-ranging effect on, i think that -- the way rfk jr. describes the american population. we can take huge steps forward in creating not just obes obesi. first time ever seen obesity drop. it's important we get this

right? louise? >> oh, okay. i didn't know you were asking me a question. sorry. i think the downstream effects of these drugs are really important to keep in mind. people talk about costs what have you from obesity perspective. remember, these drugs have data showing they help treat cardiovascular disease, heart failure, obstructive sleep apnea. potentially addiction. downstream effects taking one medicine for that. i think from a cost savings perspective could save the system a lot over the longer term. >> okay. all right. louise, thank you. canter or fitzgerald, but we th you, louise. can't do the microdose, because the microdose doesn't work. the effects of -- with gottlieb, didn't he sort of popular, a possible of -- almost like soma from "brave new world" all taking this in your view. if it doesn't help i don't

know -- >> i don't know about that. what's happened is there's a view that you have to take a lot to lose the weight. >> yeah. >> then what's happened after that is, that people then take much lower doses to maintain. so the question is not -- it's how much -- >> racking that up. >> and you can get to a lower dose? >> yes. i think at least anecdotally most people who lost a lot of weight take huge amount of it and then take a lower amount later. there's a question mark about that perspective. >> that's the problem within the -- why can't -- it doesn't work yet? i mean is that going to happen soon? >> eli lilly coming out with something. not working on, sort of two pieces. works on one i believe? >> i can't believe someone as rail thin as you is an expert on this. >> fascinating because it's changing the world! it's changing the world. >> very strange.

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for the country in a speech today in pittsburgh. the harris campaign billing it as a major evevent. and joining us, supporting her. corporate advisory mergers acquisition firm advised more than 4 trillion with a t dollars in transactions. nice to see you, sir. we've been asking a lot of q questions what her economic policy is. appeared about the $50,000 for small business owners, heard about the plans to create new housing and the $25,000 for new owners and things like that. some tax things but not really. what are we actually going to learn today? >> what we're learn today, andrew, is the coda to what has been a lot of information out there. the speech in north carolina another one in new hampshire and today in pittsburgh. what you know is this -- she is fundamentally running a

campaign that is about doing better for the middle class. 100 million people. that fit squarely within the democratic party perspective. that said she goes at this in a very practical solutions-based way. come up with a set of policies, what's the best way to help the people we want to help. a growing economy. to do that you need all the private business to do well. start with small business. doing that, running as vice president, $50,000 tax credit. you have the innovation perspective put forward and then you get to the actual innovation machine. >> right. >> she's from california knows that world well. most importantly for this group is she's met and become close to some of the most important well-known business leaders in the country.

why does that matter and develops these relationships. it matters because she knows when the biggest company invest back in the business. >> does that mean a new wrinkle in this speech? something that we're going to -- learn -- >> you'll hear today. >> how does that -- you said met with a lot of ceos she has. "wall street journal report"ed on some meetings just yesterday. is your sense she will speak out loud about, therefore, her regulatory regime, for example? you talked big business. how she thinks about success? small businesses, only going to hopefully support the small business hopes one day they become business big businesses? doesn't talk about the send thing. >> think about what she says. not what she doesn't say. ronald reagan, buybacks 1%. she's going to 4%. last year the most in the

country. the -- it won't have impact. >> it won't? >> hasn't. and will continue. that breaks with biden. the idea that she wants the middle class create jobs. 25 million applications for new business. >> right. >> okay? talks about cost. bringing it down. everything from health care to everyday goods, to housing. right? promote housing. so she recognizes that you need to be aligned with the private sector generally to be successful as opposed to being in conflict with any particular group. >> look what she says. where -- if there had been more interviews or come here and we could ask questions we could find out exactly about some of the things said in the past. i love you and, i just have to press you a little on this. there are many things she said in the past that, maybe she's

evolved, maybe she no longer feels this way. we don't know, because we haven't really been able to ask letter. whethers -- she weighed in on abolishing the filibuster. troubling to a lot of people including joe manchin. ending private health insurance, decriminalizing illegal crossings. things that are now, i don't know, maybe she's evolved, but here's the way bill ackman put it. i saw a tweet yesterday. did you see this, andrew? he said, i thought it was -- told by the administration biden was inperfect health and videos of him exhibiting serious deterioration were right wing propaganda. the biden lies, perhaps the greatest lie ever told to the american people by our government and was told repeatedly with a bold face by the current democratic nominee for the president. how do we ever believe anything that she says from now on and all of a sudden, and -- she's

now the former most left-leaning senator in the senate, you no a gun toting shoot the incrktrude individual that, you know is going to build a wall! why should we believe any of that stuff, blair? >> good newses is most of the country does believe her, because of the country does believe her. >> we haven't seen the vote yet. >> on polls. let me finish, if i could. all fair questions. i personally respectsomeone who evolves on anything as they learn more. she's been the vice president for three and a half years. she's learned a lot. okay? and what she's learned about and by her curiosity in terms of getting to know the private sector well, getting to know business well, understanding the gears and mechanisms of how it works, it has helped her come to a perspective -- >> even bernie sanders came out and said that none of these things -- she doesn't believe any of these things. she wants to get elected. why should we not think she's

going to go back to what i think are some horrifying policy positions for a lot of americans? >> i've been doing this a long time. i actually believe when a politician or public servant says something in a ampaign, they believe it. when donald trump says he wants to have $11 trillion of tax give-mes going on to our fiscal debt, i believe that. when kamala harris says that she wants to have a pay-for on everything we do so we have fiscal discipline, responsibility -- >> but you don't believe the other thing she said about abolishing private insurance? >> what i'm saying is she is very clear that what her perspective is to help the country, economically -- >> has changed? >> it has evolved, as has donald trump's, as has any politician. >> donald trump used to be a democrat. i don't know what we're talking about. all i'm saying is, what he's saying, which i'm listening to, is he's saying there are certain policy positions she's talking about now and certain things she

talked about three or four years ago. you have told me repeatedly i'm not supposed to think about what donald trump thought about three, ten years ago. >> i'll play along with you -- >> the choice for a lot of americans is whether we're electing the most far-left individual -- >> joe, that's just silly. i would be very worried about electing -- >> mandatory gun buybacks? >> -- any public servant that had the same position today -- >> she wants to abolish i.c.e. she's on the record, paying for gender -- for illegal -- >> i hear you. >> -- undocumented aliens, paying for gender transition surgery from the taxpayer. >> as more people see her, she's -- >> she's going to say, i don't believe those things anymore? >> she's telling you what she believes. >> that's another problem. she's not telling us anything. >> a lot more than donald trump. she has a plan that not only helps the middle class, not only reinvests back in the country but does it in a fiscally

responsible way. when you hear about taxing the billionaires, what she has said is, we will find responsible ways to do this. everybody should pay their fair share. >> i have a different question, though, which is, do you believe that it is fair for the -- and i've been asking this of a lot of people -- is fair for taxpayers and citizens of america, who are voting, some of whom who are voting right now because of mail-in ballots and the like, that they should know more about her economic plans, the details of the case, should you know what, at least, in a perfected version of her world, and i don't know if some of this could get through the congress and senate, but what she thinks your tax rate should be, what she really thinks of salt? there are details. what she really thinks of the regulatory environment. does she, you know, does she like kanter? does she like lina khan? does she want to replace those people? if she could get a --

>> can you get her to come on? >> all fair questions. she's been at this for 90 days and she's answered a lot of what you've talked about. you say tax. what we know is her top tax rate is 39.6%. we've been there before. we know corporate tax. 28%. from 21%. donald trump wants 15%, which is a tax to the -- okay? we know where she stands on tariffs. she wants to protect a few critical industries. we know where donald trump thinks about tariffs, $350 billion tax again to consumers, half a point hit to gdp, 700,000 jobs at risk. she is telling you. i think it's important to pay attention to what she's saying. today, we'll start to continue to codify that, and andrew, through the campaign, from here, you will continue to hear more, and i think she fully appreciates and looks forward to putting a lot more out there than the republican platform, because she has a very growth-oriented but fiscally responsible perspective that

does drive at helping the middle class, that does drive at helping an economic safety net for those who need it, but does it in a way that is paid for. and you'll continue to learn that. and again, she has been at this -- she's done this for three and a half years as vice president. as far as the public's concerned, it's obviously only been 45 days. i will say this. she meets a lot of business leaders, wiell known across the country, to a person, republican and democrat, they meet her, whether they're going to support her or not, they are impressed with her curiosity, her judgment, her backbone, her understanding of the wheels of the economy, and what it means to be representing the country. so, my bet is if you polled -- more than a bet -- the business round table, most ceos are going

to be supporting her, including ceos who nominally are republican >> blair efron, thank you for coming on. >> thanks, everybody. don't go anywhere, though. when we come back, "squawk box" returns with a lot more in just a moment. medical breakthroughs, every second counts. but without investment, those breakthroughs are often paused. citi's seamlessly connected banking, markets and services businesses, deliver global financial solutions. so our client can keep investing in innovations for patients around the world. without pause. for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. i can't believe you corporate types are still calling each other rock stars. you're a rock star. we're all rock stars. oooo look look at my data driven insights, i'm a rock star. great job putting finance and hr on one platform with workday. thank you! guys, can you keep it down. i'm working. you people are (guitar noises).

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welcome back, everybody. the doj is suing visa, accusing it of propping up an illegal monopoly over debit payments by proposing exclusionary agreements on partners that would potentially be much bigger competitors, also smothering upstart firms. the agency said visa's firms have resulted in american consumers and merchants paying billions of dollars in additional fees. visa, for its part, called the doj suit meritless. the company's general counsel said, "today's lawsuit ignores the reality that visa is just one of many competitors in a debit space that is growing with entrants who are thriving" check out the shares of southwest, if you would. airlines, the company is planning to reduce service to and from atlanta next year, cutting more than 300 pilots and flight attendant positions, that's according to a company memo seen by cnbc. important city. i don't understand that. must have their reasons. it hasn't been there -- their

spot. >> it's a delta hub. >> it certainly is. in the meantime, let's look at the futures before we hand things over to "squawk on the street." things are in the red, just barely. s&p is basically flat. dow is down by 12 points, the nasdaq off by about 22. that does it for us today. make sure you join us tomorrow when -- are we 40 days to the election? >> 41. >> almost. we'll see ryou then. right now, it's time for "squawk on the street." ♪ good wednesday morning, and welcome to "squawk on the street," i'm david faber with sara eisen and mike santoli, live from post nine at the new york stock exchange. carl is on assignment, jim has the morning off. let's give you a look at futures. we get started with trading on what we like to call hump day. you can see we're slightly lower open, perhaps, when we get started but we'll see what happens in the next half hour. speaking of which, let's get to our road map. it does begin with records, both the s&p and the dow are coming off closing highs,