far. it's thursday, september 26th, 2024 and "squawk box" starts right now. ♪ good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. we are live from the nasdaq market site in times square. that was an actual fly that landed on my nose. >> again? that's always good. >> i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. we have three big interviews you don't want to miss today. we're looking forward to it. the futures are looking up this morning, too. check things out. the dow indicated up 200 points. s&p futures up 45. the nasdaq up by 273. you can thank micron for that.

we'll talk about what we heard from the chip maker in a moment. yesterday, markets were mixed. the dow and s&p down. the nasdaq up and check out treasury yields. the two-year is 3.55. two-year at 3.55. the ten-year at 3.66. we will continue to watch it. we have micron citing strong demand for the high-end chips used for artificial intelligence. micron chips set the sector ahead of the peers and serves a bit of a broad-based client f you will,spanning pcs and data centers and smartphones. you can see it there with samsung up 4%. sk up 11%. then nvidia up a little bit less than the rest. asml holdings up 11% as well. one of the chip movers is micron's biggest competitors

which is sk. it is up 11%. it started the high version of the memory chips and aiming for delivery by the end of the year. today's chip rally coincides with another surge for stocks in china. state media announcing that china's top leaders, including president xi jinping, held a meeting affirming the government's latest efforts to support the economy and markets. those leaders called for a strengthening of monetary support and halting decline of the real estate market. this is in line with what we heard three days running this week. as you see, it is adding big gains to the markets. most of the markets up 4% after gains of better than 1% yesterday and 4% the day before. the shanghai composite is up nearly 10% for the week to date. breaking news here in new york city. mayor mayor eric adams has been indicted on federal charges.

we have eamon javers with more. good morning. >> reporter: good morning, becky. we don't have all of the details with the chargers sealed. the mayor is expected to face these charges as soon as today. what we do know is mayor adams is striking a defiant tone releasing this statement last night. >> i will fight these injustices with every ounce of my strength and my spirit. if i'm charged, i know i'm be in the innocent. i will request an immediate trial so new yorkers hear the truth. >> reporter: we don't know the charges, but there is controversy whether adams should stay in office. congress her cortez releasing this statement yesterday. i do not see how he can continue governing new york city. the flood of vacancies are threatening government function. nonstop investigations make it

impossible to retain qualified administration. the mayor's office put out a statement defying that saying in effect no thanks, aoc, we're not going to resign. that was before the indictment now. this is the first time a sitting mayor of new york city has faced federal charges. this investigation is sprawling, guys. we don't know what the charges will be today, but we also know this investigation has been going on since last year when the mayor faced federal agents stopping his motorcade and moving his security detail aside and climbing into the motorcade and seizing his phones and devices. that was a clear sign the mayor was a target of the federal investigation. one of the issues appears to be his relationship or lack thereof with foreign officials s of tury

and accepted value on behalf of turkey. you know there is a wave of new york officials investigated and having phones seized and some resigning now in the wake of this swinvestigation. we will see who was implicated and the charges. that could come as soon as later today. back to you. >> eamon, you heard the mayor say he will fight this. i heard others say the governor kathy hochul, would have the ability to remove him from office if she thinks it is becoming unmanageable for the city. >> reporter: look, that depends on new york state law. i have to check what is allowable in the state for that. this is a problem for democrats. e eric adams is a democrat and he has been at odds with immigration in the city of new york. he has addressed the federal immigration system with the overloading of the system.

now you see aoc calling for his resignation. all adams releasing a statement here reminiscent of donald trump in the wake of his conviction. you see where democrats don't want to have this hanging over their shoulders going into an election year where they are forced to defend adams from an fbi investigation and federal charges. that's not a position democrats want to be in. >> if this is dayton, ohio -- >> i was thinking -- >> what about l.a.? what about chicago? >> chicago or l.a. what are the good examples here? >> it is a national story here, i think, but the only one from a city that would be a national story, i think, eamon. >> reporter: i think some of the big cities would be national. new york, because it is so big and because this is international and there are fed

t eral officials calling for his resignation and the turkish government issues. all of that makes it fascinating from the journalistic perspective. it is important for the democratic party to sort through this and people in the city who want their government to function. >> if you were a conspiracy theoryist, he did not toe the line. you said it. he definitely made some democrats unhappy with his comments on what the city is dealing with. >> reporter: aoc -- they have had a fraught relationship. >> he dmefinitely is off the reser reservation. he is not toeing the line for

the aoc open border policy. >> that's not why any of this is happening. >> he brought it up. i didn't. that's why i'm not going to talk about it. >> reporter: in lock step with the democratic party. joe, you can't say it and it is inappropriate to suggest any effort by democratic party to bring the charges. this is the department of justice. this is a federal investigation. >> and it's a problem for the democrats. >> i want to show one thing. i was walking home late last night. there were police everywhere in new york city because president biden was here. >> the president? >> you are talking to the police and they're all talking about this. one of the things that was interesting is they were saying two things. this city, unlike any other city in the united states, has a whole system, new york is like a nation state with the amount of police we have and services, all

of it. >> the size of the economy. >> no, it's an incredible thing. the question they were wondering is can you run a nation state if your mayor is, effectively, in the middle of the trial? you heard it from -- i'm saying random conversation with the cops at, you know, 9:00. >> mayor adams is a former police officer. >> did he run the nation state? >> reporter: andrew, you add to the fact -- >> what's that, eamon? >> reporter: adams was a former police officer and ran a tough campaign on crime. he was going to get the city's swagger back. this guy sees himself and the police as, you know, one of his own. now to be facing these charges for those cops on the beat that you're talking to, this must be really difficult to process because this is the guy who was

seen as really aligned with the police politically. >> aoc, i guess she has to write and say whatever she wants. he didn't want to defund the police. >> she is one of the most visual and out there democrats in the area. >> how many people elect mayor adams? when they vote new york, sorkin? >> 12 million a day and 8 million live here. >> you get elected by a small percentage of that. >> i'm looking. remember the mayor of rhode island? providence -- >> buddy? >> you remember buddy? >> no, i don't. what's his last name? >> he stayed in office after his last conviction. he was forced to resign. there's a great book about him. >> wasn't the best mayor.

the guy in d.c. smoking crack with the prostitute and got reelected. remember him? >> 21% of registered voters cast a ballot in the general election that eric adams won in. 1.1 million voters. cast ballots. >> uh, oh, fly's on you. >> how about tony mack? coming up, we have a big lineup on "squawk box." we have s.e.c. chair gary gensler and then at 8:00 a.m., carolina panthers owner and hedge fund david tepper and then you have mark cuban here. i saw him make the comments about gary gensler so beyond the pale. they may pass each other. all three will join us on the squawk set. not at the same time. up next, we talk technicals

with katie stockton. "squawk box" will be right back. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairddifference.com.

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off to the races again for stock futures. sharply higher thanks this time to chip stocks in a rally with the big gain this china.

third straight gain for china stocks. joining us now is katie stockton from fairlead. we got the 50 basis points, katie. this move today is already in the rear-view mirror. i guess that's why it's called news. you don't care about fundamentals. this has to do with what micron said about demand. this does, for whatever reason, it gives maybe some underlining strength to where the averages are. the spx specifically. >> that's right. the s&p 500 did ultimately confirm a breakout to new highs. the former resistance was 5,670. the breakout can allow for a measured move projection of about 5,935. it does act as a positive technical catalyst. our recommendation has been not to chase a rally and we stand by

that today even with strength carrying over from micron to broader technology stocks. we feel that the risk/reward isn't great when you look at the risk and support levels. the support is just shy of 5,400 at it time. that feels uncomfortable to us. if you look at the chinese stock market, the indices have a base long-term development for china. we do also at the same time on a short-term basis have new counter trend signals. the hang seng index today has a new counter trend signal to the market indicators suggest we can wait to add exposure for pull back to take advantage of it. >> the -- in terms of how we view the market and whether we're complacent or not, katie, we're in such a different plac

than where we were in 2022 and 2023, katie, where everyone was looking for the retest of the lows. 3,500. mike wilson was down to 3,000 with the worst-case scenario. we almost doubled. a guy named canterwitz who said i just know earnings will be -- they're just obvious. he's at 3,000. now every day it goes up, no one says boo. we're up again and headed to 6,000. how did that happen? you didn't turn bullish for a long time either, katie. you stuck way too long with the retest. >> we did. we don't like to stay wrong for too long. you know, the up trend is

obviously very, very strong. it has momentum and breadth. the participation has been very good. so, as a technical analyst, it has been difficult to feel bearish at all. we have the yield curve having uninverted. when you look over history, that's not a great thing for the stock market nor the economy. we feel there are risks here and the risks in the charts that we haven't seen since about 2021 ahead of the bear market cycle. from the longer-term perspective, we're somewhat cautious. we're not looking for a bear cycle, but more of a range bound environment based on the longer-term signals that we do see. sideways markets are among the toughest to take advantage of. the rotations become very important if you are trying to generate any alpha in that environment because you can't just buy and hold and benefit from the trend in the way we have done recently. >> i can give you so many reasons to sort of feel

uncomfortable fund thamentally whether it is the consumer. i know the fed says don't read anything into the 50-basis point cut. it still makes me think the labor market could deteriorate more than people are thinking. i don't know how you feel about that. i would not anannualize this return and say we're up 5% 35%. >> this is the time people think about returns for the next year. i would say mid single digits in terms of what i'm seeing. not all a year like this year. i think a lot of that comes from the increased volatility with those things you highlight there. the increased volatility is style here. the vix is above the 200-moving

day average which shifted u upside. that does tend to be market positive long term. we'll see more volatility from more of an intermediate term perspective two months up or two months down. that type of thing. i think it will be difficult to take and in that environment, be more short-term in our position to succeed. >> if you had to look at one canary in the coal mine, if crude got below $64, you talk about that support. i don't know, is the bond market -- what if long rates continue to stay high even after we get the cuts? what would be something that would signal trouble to you for equities? the russell looks good. >> i think we already have that, hon honestly, if you go back and look at the rate cuts. i feel we have that more from the macro perspective. from the macro technical perspective, it is all about

rates and secondarily, nvidia. nvidia has a triangle formation on its chart to test the upper boundary of it with the micron news. we have a real proof point for nvidia. they give way to increased volatility, but they don't give you the direction it's going to come in. if we get the breakout from the triangle formation, that would be market positive and conversely, that breakdown would be market negative. >> okay, katie stockton, you don't sound very sanguine right now. i have known you a long time. you don't want to say it, but you are not pounding the table. >> no, no. i don't think the market will allow us easy returns at this time. >> it's double from where we're supposed to go. coming up, a source telling cnbc that openai's board

considering to convert the company to a for-profit model. coming up later in the show, interview was gary gensler and david tepper and mark cuban. "squawk box" is coming right back. and command the road as well as what lies ahead? how we get there matters. get exceptional offers at your local audi dealer.

welcome back to "squawk box." openai's board is structuring to a for-profit business according to a source who remains anonymous. they will maintain the non-profit segment as a separate entity. this comes after mira murati

announced she will leave the company after six and a half years. two executives in the research department are also leaving. a major restructuring going on in terms of the personnel. you look at the 13 people who founded the company -- >> 11 are gone. >> and then there were two. >> one is on leave. >> greg brockman is supposed to come back later this year. you think of the talented that created arguably the clear leader in the space right now and how much of that talent is now out the door and how much new talent is in and how much that matters or changes the dynamic. one of the biggest things about the whole space has been how much of this success of any of the products is a function just of money and chip power, meaning, they have spent more money -- >> or talent. >> is it that?

it's a combination of both. the question is what is the balance in terms of what the algorithm is doing and the chips. x a.i. that elon musk put together, you need to focus on it. that is actually really, really good. it's also a lesson if you spend enough money on the processor power and get tal ented company you can create this quickly. >> openai stole someone from meta? >> they have been back and forth with a bunch of people. it's fascinating. you go and look at google which has been in this business ahead of everybody and they're still in a weird way behind because more of how it is product -- >> if it is smarter than any

person on the planet within 1,000 days, does that imply -- >> by the way, it's already smarter -- >> it can remember stuff. it can't reason like a human. still. that may never happen. >> you go look at some of the reasoning and say -- >> they're getting close? >> i'm not -- look, people you met on the set who are exceptional. exceptional talents and thinkers. >> present company ekxcluded. >> you meet some less exceptional thinkers, but still think and i put them in this category. >> okay. all right. much more to talk about. sam altman -- >> some people we have on all the time. florida residents bracing for impact as hurricane helene gathers strength in the gulf of mexico. we have the latest on the

projected path next. this is big and this storm surge w huge. weill have more on that coming up. pollster frank luntz will weigh in on the latest economic proposals from vice president harris. we'll be right back. >> announcer: executive edge is sponsored by at&t business. next level moments need the next level network. it's super-fast so, any pre-launch concerns? what if nobody buys them? that's mean or, what if everybody buys them? oh, i hadn't thought of that that's probably not gonna happen can we handle that kind of traffic? the network can handle it! i downloaded eight hours of true crime stories just during our last video call i'm learning a lot

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good morning. there's the futures. 200 point gains in the nasdaq and dow. a lot of it had to do with positive comments by micron of memory chips used in a.i. also in china which more or less confirming it will keep on keeping on with the stimulus until it accomplishes what it wants. check out the gainers in the nasdaq. the chip related stocks. the ceo of micron will be on "squawk on the street" today in the exclusive interview. check out the price of gold. hitting another new high. let's say it is hitting a new high this morning. that does it, right?

how many words can you use? >> almost $2,700. >> it is hitting a new high. >> it keeps happening again. >> a new high. it has to keep happening. >> maybe they don't know the history of it happening again and again. >> it is happening again. >> how many words have we used to discuss this and describe this? >> now you know where i stand. >> we're centian. let's tell you about a serious situation. hurricane helene is gaining strength in the gulf of mexico. forecaster says it could reach category 4 strength by the time it makes landfall in florida tonight and could be the strongest hurricane to hit the united states in years. the storm surge could climb to 20 feet along some parts of the coast and that is nothing to joke about. wind is one thing. it can become incredibly damaging. you can batton down the hatches

with the wind. you have to get away from the storm surge and water that comes with it. we will bring you updates throughout the morning. that is the message from florida officials. the governor there making it clear you have to get out of the way of this. we will be watching closely. coming up, vice president kamala harris speaks about her campaign on the economic plan. we will speak to pollster frank luntz next about it. as we go to break, here say l a look at the s&p 500. >> announcer: currency check is sponsored by interactive brokers. the best informed investors choose interactive brokers.

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only on verizon. welcome back to "squawk box." vice president kamala harris talking about her economic agenda last night and stephanie ruhle asked about her plans. >> we're going to have to make sure the biggest corporations and billionaires pay their fair share. that's just it. it's about paying their fair share. i'm not mad at anyone for achieving success, but everyone should pay their fair share and it is not right that the teachers and firefighters that i mooed m meet across the country are paying a higher tax than the richest people in our country. >> joining us right now is

political strategist and pollster frank luntz. i want your initial reaction to the interview and comments. >> some of what she said are exactly what voters want to hear. that is not. pay their fair share. we heard it now for how many years? 30, maybe 40? what exactly is fair share? >> we debate that all the time. >> the issue is it is a sound bite and slogan. i know i'm a messaging person. that's my job. however, the public requires a detailed action and they are not getting it from her. she is addressing housing and she is addressing health care and food and fuel, she is doing the policy. in terms of the communication, i'll give you an example, pragmatic versus common sense. pragmatic shows she will do what is smart polling wise and politically. the public says if you raise taxes, tell us where it's going

to come and tell us the impact which is what they're looking for and in the end, let us keep a little bit more of what we make and let us be just a little bit more affordable in how we live. i'll give you a second example. we're positive toward her. there's too much donald trump focus ed on the past and trying to get even. she is focused on the future. she uses the language that businesses will and i quote define the next century. that's what the public wants. looking forward, not backward. this is where trump is weak. however, she only talks about good union jobs. we're all hard working taxpayers. we're all part of this economy. for her at this close to the election, the focus on the specific group, is not helpful of when the economy affects everyone. >> i saw that speech yesterday and then the interview and her comments about being a capitalist -- >> this is a negative, by the

way. >> wanting free and fair markets and competitive markets, i thought this was -- we talked about whether she has turned to the center. again, we're lacking specific details of what the tax plan is. i think you are getting directionally a lot more sense of what the way she is thinking about it is. yes, it may be different than some of her comments three and four years ago. >> it was trying to go to the center and businesses where she has been criticized heavily. >> i'm a moderator of focused groups. this was driven by focused groups. it doesn't feel like it was her, herself. it felt like someone went through the speech like me and added a few phrases. >> i interviewed her last year and i talked to her before and i actually thought this was very similar if you go back and watch that interview we did a year ago, this was closely. this was one of the first interviews or comments where she

was speaking to business people in a way she hadn't thus far. >> if you repeat yourself three times, which is what she did, you know it's a line. you know it's not something they really feels. there's so much she wants to put out. i'm looking at that language to be able to tell whether it's authentic or whether somebody like me gave it to her. >> focus groups. democrats love the group that corporations are price gouging. there's a piece -- to me when it came out and it seemed like the most ridiculous assertion with elizabeth warren and they don't use actual data. they skew it for their own design. all of her ads i see now, they're doubling and tripping down on i'm going to stop the price gouging. it's all a smoke screen to get around what caused the inflation. people, the democratic rank-and-file eat that up. that's what we hear between now

and then. she finally talks and it's to someone the week before who said she shouldn't do interviews on bill maher? >> you are explaining what is correct and what the american people are most hostile to companies and ceos and people that do this show. here's the issue, does it affect you the moment you wake up in the morning to the moment you go to sleep at night? is this the impact on how you live your life? it is not standard of living, but it is about quality of life. the public right now is suffering. they literally can't -- >> i'm suffering from all the political ads from the moment i get up in the morning until i do to bed. >> you are? >> on tv. >> not here. >> in new jersey. >> you are in the swing state of new jersey? >> i'm not a swing state. i like what i hear. i see the guy like ken langone.

>> the key is is it meaningful, significant and measurable so you can prove it? the key with her is she is not giving us a detailed plan of action. the issue with trump, because we have to be fair on this show, the issue can trump is he is talking too much about the past and not the future. here's the amazing thing because i want to come clean this show. i thought trump was out of it after the debate. i thought he was given so many opportunities to talk about affordability and he blew it. >> people are locked in, frank. no one changed from that debate. you are not seeing ads. i watch fox. you don't know where that is. >> trump is still in this even with that performance. he still could pull this out. >> pull it out? in gallop. >> i know you believe he is going to win. i believe she has the advantage

t.advantage. it is all about affordability. two words. am i safe and secure over immigration and can i afford the things i want, need and deserve and those are the only issues that matter. >> a question about that. trump is obviously very clear on the immigration piece. clearer, arguably, than she is, i think is fair to say. on the affordability piece, who do you think is clearer? she talks about housing, she talks about giving money to small businesses. is that the piece of it that you think is going -- >> this is where he's done a good job. if she couldn't do it over the last three and a half years, what makes you think she will do it the next four? >> are there details from him or from her that you think are more persuadable for affordability? >> trump could repeat he had 1.9% for inflation. >> if he goes back to the record

and compares to the biden-harris record. that is where he has the advantage. that is the rare advantage. andrew, it's this big and, yet, he's not talking about it. i don't understand. >> real wages. >> he's not talking about it. that's why the election is where it is. only you can see. [crowd cheers] [music out] growing your business is easy

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still to come, today marks the launch of the cnbc sport newsletter. it covers one of the biggest issues of sports and business. that is media rights. also, three big interviews in the show. s.e.c. chair gary gensler and

david tepper and mark cuban. "squawk box" will be right back. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by truist securities. experience, expertise, execution.

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e*trade from morgan stanley . all right. today is the launch of the first ever cnbc sport weekly newsletter and joining us right now to tell us all about it is cnbc.com media and technology reporter alex sherman. we should add to that media technology and sports. >> as of today. >> as of today. alex, i love that you are doing this newsletter because you come at this from a business perspective, not just media and sports but a former m&a reporter. >> it's so related. it seems like a natural transition to some degree, because so much of what i've been writing about in the past up to the last nfl rights deal 2021, sports dominates media, like it or not. and the biggest money goes to sports.

93 of the top 100 televised shows last year were nfl football games. if you look at where the money is going today, there's an interview today in the newsletter with jeff zucker and i ask him a question like, it seems pretty depressing in media today, except sports. am i sort of misreading that. he kind of acknowledges yeah, that's where we are today. there's a lot of energy behind sports, particularly certain sports. we saw the nba triple the value of its rights even as cable subscribers come down. the nfl, the big story today in the newsletter is about how media executives are already looking ahead to 2029 because that's when the nfl can pull the opt-out clause in its current rights deal signed only in 2021, but that landmark event is so important to all of the media and tech companies. >> explain that. they can pull what now. >> an opt-out clause. 11-year deal they signed in

2021. an opt-out after the 28-29 season for all of the companies that carry nfl rights except disney which is one year laterally. basically if the nfl wants to say five years from now the world has changed we want to sell our sunday afternoon package instead of cbs, let's sell it to netflix, that's where you need to go to get your games. the nfl has that right, assuming netflix is around to buy the rights if they want to do that. it's five years from now. >> i have a question for you. >> yeah. >> everybody is focused on sports and clearly the nba, nfl, some of the major sports are killing it. there's no question about that. there's also a whole bunch of new sports leagues that are trying to make it. obviously, women's sports seems like it's on the make. there's also a question whether we're in some kind of sport bubble. >> sure. >> what do youthink? >> well, that question has been going around for like 30 years i think. as long as i've been aware of this. >> this feels different. >> i think it feels different

with -- with certain sports. i don't get a sense we're in a bubble for football yet. >> nfl, nba, i don't think we're -- >> you're right. if you look -- i reported this a couple weeks ago, almost all of the sports media rights are locked up let's say for the next three to four years. again maybe until 2028-29 when they start coming up again. is there a world where we finally see deflation in the cost of these rights? i think absolutely there's that world and it's driven by the fact that not only are some of these sports losing popularity, but as you take people out of the traditional cable bundle, you're going to have to subscribe specifically to see these sports on a streaming service. all of a sudden if you don't want to watch your regional sports network you don't have to because it's not bundled into your cable service anymore. that's going to take money out of the system and likely decrease the value of certain sports rights. >> alex, great to see you.

i'm really excited by this. by the way, folks at home you can scan the qr code right here if you want to get the newsletter. it's going to be once a week. >> once a week. >> we are looking forward to it. alex sherman, thank you.

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some breaking news out of southwest airlines. phil lebeau joins us now with more. hey, phil. >> hey, joe. we've got a number of announcements from southwest airlines, including the fact that it has new guidance for the third quarter. the company's new guidance revolves around revenue per available seat mile. it is now expected to be up 2 to 3%. the previous guidance was for it to be flat to down 2%. the other news just coming out from southwest, changes that the company plans to make to enhance its revenue generation. this is all part of the investor day that's going to be outlined later today. among the new changes, international airline partnerships.

it's going to be offering vacation packages, and enhanced frequent flyer rewards and working on the cost size of the operation by minimizing hiring and targeting annual cost savings. targeting $4 billion growth in ebit by 2027. lots of changes will be outlined during an investor day presentation that starts a little bit later on this morning and then this afternoon, we will be talking with southwest ceo bob jordan about the changes and the plans here, including a new board member who has just been named. former spirit airlines as well as air tran ceo bob core narrow will join the southwest board immediately. we're watching to see what happens with the elliott group's plan to potentially call an investor or a shareholder meeting where they want to have their own slate of directors appointed. that will be part of the conversation with bob jordan this afternoon swell.

guys, i'll send it back to you. >> phil, would you say southwest it's very aggressive expansion planses are getting reigned in a little bit? what happened with atlanta and why would you, you know -- >> the cost -- too costly is the easiest way to say it. atlanta is a good example where it's a highly competitive market. everybody knows that delta is based down there. they were out of position in terms of the aircrafts that were positioned for routes and flights out of atlanta. and that's a big part of what they're going to be announcing today. they have got aircraft that should not be flying on certain routes. they're too large. at this point in their growth plan, a couple of years ago, they expected to have boeing 737 max-7s. the smallest version of the max. which would be perfect for certain routes. that hasn't even been certified. not sure we're going to get that until '26, '27, nobody knows for

sure. they've got max-8 models which are larger, less efficient for certain routes and that's what they're going to have to change here. they are out of position in certain areas and their costs, because they have hired so many people, expecting to grow, they're just not -- they're not where they need to be. so that's going to be part of what bob jordan talks about today. in addition to enhancing revenue growth. that's the plan at this point. >> okay. phil, thank you. see ya. >> you bet. meantime we've got a huge lineup including sec chair gary gensler, we've got billionaire hedge fund manager david tepper, about the markets and so much more. billionaire investor and entrepreneur mark cuban will be here. three big interviews you do not want to miss. the futures ahead of those interviews. dow up 218, the nasdaq 88, s&p 500 up about 46 points. among the other top stories that we're looking at this morning, it's a big one here in new york

city. new york city mayor eric adams has now been indicted on criminal charges by the manhattan u.s. attorney's office. that indictment which will remain sealed until later today, is expected to accuse adams of criminal conduct related to donations to his 2021 mayoral campaign. congress avoiding yet another government shutdown. the senate passing a government funding bill by a vote of 78-18. the bill needed 60 votes to pass and all 18 no votes were republicans. it comes hours after lawmakers in the house passed that measure, which funds the government at current levels through december 20th. mark your calendar. tesla sending out invitations for its robo taxi event that's going to take place on october 10th with the tag line "wi robot." it was pushed back. not much is known about the robo taxi other than all the speculation that won't have a steering wheel, pedals. it will be like a cybertruck in terms of design.

>> wee robot instead of i robot. >> maybe. >> ackman's tweet. i don't know whether eric adams is guilty or innocent. he deserves the presumption of innocence. i know he spoke loudly about the migrant in new york city and what consequences would be. doing so required bravery and sharing these views as a democrat didn't win him friends. having witnessed the weaponization of the prosecute turl resources i am much more skeptical when indictments are made. let's get to dom chu with a look at this market's premorning. >> we'll check on an earning mover micron shares are up around maybe 15% or so after the semiconductor maker posted revenue guidance that topped expectations and boosted its share price as well. kind of watching what's happening there. the forecast for the q1 revenue

of $8.7 billion is coming in much higher than the $8.28 billion on average that analysts were estimating. quite a few watch what's happening with micron. to hear more on micron's earnings tune in to "squawk on the street" later on this morning for an exclusive interview with micron ceo san jay mehrotra. ai is going to be a big part of that discussion i'm sure. meanwhile in technology, meta shares are higher by maybe 1.5% or so. the company unveiled a series of new tech developments at its connect event yesterday including the quest 3s the latest virtual reality headset to come out of its reality labs division. the tech giant showcased its first working prototype of augmented glasses called orion helping to boost meta shares up 1.5%. a key analyst note out with sonos sending those shares down roughly 6% after morgan stanley double downgraded that stock from an underweight to overweight. the firm believes the top and

bottom line impact of the company's apply design is greater than what market is expecting and lowered the price target from $25 down to $11. putting pressure on those shares. for those calls and other top calls of the day, cnbc pro subscribers can head to cnbc.com/pro. becky, i'll send things back over to you grace thanks, dom. up next we'll talk taxes and the election and later sec chair gary gensler will join us to talk crypto regulations, the markets and much more. "squawk box" will be right back. time now for today's aflac trivia question. what is the largest sports venue in the world e sw wn quawk box" returns. see that? that's like the gap in my health insurance. gap in your health insurance? yeah, it didn't cover everything when i got hurt. good thing i had aflac. (aflac duck) hmmm the cash i got from aflac helped pay for medical expenses, groceries, rent. it really helped close that gap. (whisper) go, go, go! (group) yay! go aflac! go duck! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover.

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so i enrolled in umgc. i would not be the person that i am today had it not been for the partnership with umgc. the answer to today's aflac trivia question. what is the largest sports venue in the world? the answer the indianapolis motor speedway with a total capacity of over 400,000 spectators. >> the trump tax cuts are set to expire next year and have become a campaign issue for both candidates. our next guests have worked on the tax cuts and jobs acts and plans for what comes next.

kevin brady former republican congressman of texas who served as chair of the house ways and means and he and spokesman forget alliance of competitive taxation and congressman brad schneider a democrat from illinois a member of the ways and means tax subcommittee. i know you are both very focuseden what happens for next year. i think that is the biggest question. will these cuts be exended? will they be changed in some significant way? i honestly don't know the relationship between the two of you. i'll ask. former congressman brady, congressman snyder, do you two work together? did you work together on the ways and means committee to get some of these things done? >> we work very well together. i was on the committee for two terms with chairman and before that ranking member brady. i think one of the things about ways and means historically, it's a committee that has taken its job very seriously. people on both sides of the aisle find ways to work together. we don't always agree, but we try to find compromise and it

was an honor to work with kevin for the two terms we shared the committee together. >> kevin, let me ask you, where is the common ground on this? i know this is going to be a battle? if you two have worked together and seen common ground where is the common greened for what we might see next year. >> first want to echo brad's comments. it's a serious committee and serious topics we work on too important to be dysfunctional. brad and i have worked together and you'll see a lot of that on the committee. a lot is at stake in 2025 and neither party gains by letting the tax cuts expire. $4 trillion, lots on families, small businesses, so finding a way will be really important. i think the common ground is certainly the middle-class tax cuts which are strongly supportive. i think the new small business deduction had a big impact on this, on the economy, main street businesses as well. i think there's common ground on some issues like the child tax credit, for example.

innovation. how we drive more research, more intellectual property in the u.s. how do we compete and win against china, you know, and our foreign competitors. i think is common ground. there are big differences. i think the corporate is -- my sense is people are shooting at corporations that are going to hit workers because the corporate rate, we've lowered it, drove the three highest years of real wage growth, 9%, highest since we've ever recorded that data, so my worry is, raising those taxes on corporations good for china and foreign competitors trying to win, but really i think hammers both those small and mid sized suppliers and certainly the workers. >> congressman snyder let's talk about that point in particular. you were in favor of bringing the rate down from 35% back in 2017. >> i was. but i think in 2017 the congress

overshot. what happened with tax bill 2017 is we saw an increase in our deficits and an explosion in our debt, not the only reason but a significant contributor. we have to have a corporate tax rate that ensures that our companies, u.s. companies, are competing globally, that we're able to make the investments in innovation in r&d as kevin said, make sure these companies are continuing to invest in their workforce and that as a nation we're able to invest in our children with child tax credit helping families pay for child care so they can get into the workforce. there's things we can do. i think the corporate tax rate is something that will be discussed but whatever we do needs to make sure american companies are competitive in a global economy. >> i mean, congressman, corporate tax receipts are way ahead of where they were now in 2000. way ahead. whenever the biden administration touts the economic successes that they've enjoyed in certain respects, not

wage growth, obviously, how do you know some of that didn't have to do with going to 21% on the corporate rate or some of the other preventions of 2017? >> you can make arguments that it had to do with a lot of different things. i think corporate tax rate at 35% clearly too high. at that time we were talking about bringing the rate down between 25 and 28%. as people are looking at corporate rates today, i don't think anyone is talking about going back to 35. there are folks talking about raising it to different levels. >> you think we should do 15? >> corporate rate is incredibly pro growth. >> 15. >> 28% takes us to the back of the pack again. >> how do you -- >> look, my focus would be on extending the tax cuts, you know, at the current level, mainly because -- but don't do 15 then -- >> everything you can do to improve the economy great. my point do not take us backwards on growth and the

research and innovation that brad talked about we all agree on, the tax cuts delivered that. >> you don't agree with 15% either. >> look, i think all that is helpful, but the thing i would start with -- >> how do you pay for it? >> yeah. let's grow what we got -- >> specifically you're sticking to 15%. >> look i think -- >> you think it's a mistake to go to 15. >> no, it's not. >> not a mistake. >> can you afford to extend what's very pro growth and pro worker now. >> so what would you cut to pay for that. >> that's the key for congress here is how are you -- there's a $4 trillion gap in extending all of them and i think that's going to be the big question on do they extend it all at once or do they do it in steps? you know what i mean. beyond next year. i think that's going to be a big issue. >> congressman snyder put you in the hot seat as well, you want to keep -- you would like to bring back the s.a.l.t. deductions, get rid of the limit on that, and that's another budget buster. how would you pay for that? >> first let's talk about

principle. the tax on state and local taxes is a double tax aigs and i don't think anyone should be paying taxes twice and where i agree with kevin we need to make sure we're competitive. our revenues this year are going to be about through the current year at $4.4 trillion but we're spending almost $6.3 trillion. that's a $1.9 trillion deficit. we can't sustain that. we have a $35 trillion deficit growing to $50 trillion according to c.b.o. we need a responsible approach to taxes. i think it needs to be bipartisan. i think it needs to stand the test of time. the 2017 bill is back on the table because it didn't have that long-term perspective. so whatever we do has to be something that does drive growth, create opportunities for american families, make it easier for families to pain their expensings, invest in their future and secure their retirement and responsible that it funds our government. we should be talking about how much do we want to invest in infrastructure, in education and the things that a government is looked to do and how do we pay for it in a responsible way.

>> i appreciate the serious conversation. still coming up with things that make sense. thank you. >> david tepper will talk markets. entrepreneur mark cuban will be with us. don't go anywhere. "squawk box" is coming right back. weathertech products are designed and manufactured in america using only american raw materials. most competitors make things seven thousand miles away...

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still to come this morning the business of tennis with jessica pegula ranked number three in the world. she will join us live ahead of her match at the china open. "squawk box" will be right back.

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our next guest can weigh in on the rise of tennis, investment in the sport, in the future of women's sports. joining us now pro tennis player jessica pegula, currently ranked number three in the world and joins us from beijing where she will compete for $1.1 million in prize money at the china open tennis tournament. jessica, i wouldn't say tennis is the only place, but it might be the place where pay equality has been around the longest and most successful in viewership

and everybody else. it's amazing and i thinks a lot of that we have to give credit to billie jean king and what was happening long before you were born but i was watching. >> definitely. first of all thanks for having me. like you said, we've been, you know, fighting for equality in the sport, obviously, since i think billie jean king started that trend and we're just trying to continue i think to grow that. i don't think it's quite consistent everywhere, at least for us on tour, on the wta tour comparative to the atp, but we've seen it at a lot of the top events. yeah. it's cool and there's a lot of prize money here in beijing being a wta as well. >> the old expression, you eat what you kill. what i mean by that with women's tennis, you get the ratings. sometimes women's tennis has higher rate thanks on the men's

side. so you can see how it all works and filters down, and it all gets spread around. there are certain sports where that's just not the case. do you think we just throw out the realities of the economics of what goes on in these other sports for -- how do you walk that line? it's difficult. >> yeah. i mean i think one of the things that we always think of is i think if you give the chance for women's sport to get that viewership, then you'll see that viewership go up. i think that's just creating equal opportunity. i know that, you know, with the tv rights sometimes, obviously, the men pay -- get paid a lot more for the rights for the tv and stuff like that and we're always fighting for that in women's sports, not just tennis, but every other sport, and i think we can get that a lot higher if we just get the opportunity as well. like you said it's fighting a super fine line of getting the viewership and then also having that opportunity as well. sometimes that opportunity is a

little lacking in the women's sports. i feel like tennis is at the top of trend setting where we can get to. we see other sports fighting for that as well, especially women's soccer. >> what an amazing family in terms of sports and everything else. we were talking early whether -- cnbc -- we have a new newsletter based on the sports business. is there any type of bubble that you see just in -- i mean, the nfl, buffalo bills, i actually had the bills the other night. it was a complete blowout. i loved watching it. and, you know, your parents involved with the bills and the sabers for that matter. do you -- is it onward and upward or do you see retrenchment in overall sports? >> i mean to me i feel like it's just growing. the money is growing. you've seen, obviously, teams being sold for a lot more. i mean, looking at hockey i think the senators were also

sold for like the highest amount in the nhl which is really cool. to me i only see it growing. i know the nfl is going more international as well having games in brazil for the first time and the bills have been a part of a few overseas games and continuing to grow their fan base. i think that's really cool. especially coming from where my family is associated with, with the bills. it's a really small type of blue collar field city, and to be able to go to cities like london and being able to get a chance to gain fans there or seeing all the fans that we have there is really, really cool. to me it seems like it's just growing and growing, which is cool to see as an athlete. >> well, it's great to watch your career and everything else. we wish you well and yet a great u.s. open and hopefully that's going to continue and wish you the best thanks. >> yes. thank you so much. i appreciate it.

>> okay. when we come back, boeing's 'vgoth impacting suppliers. wee t e details next. and then sec chair gary gensler will join us. "squawk box" will be right back.

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welcome back to "squawk box." started to furlough workers in three weeks if the strike at its biggest customer boeing doesn't end soon financial times reporting that spirit has already been behind schedule so it's been using the strike to try to catch up on filling orders but should the strike continue past mid-october it would no longer be insulated. up next, sec chair gary gensler will join us and then coming up at the top of the hour, appaloosa management founder david tepper, we'll talk markets and much more.

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joining us is sec chair gary gensler. thank you for joining us. >> so good to be with you. >> a lot to talk about. i want to talk about market structure and also your job and what you're doing, crypto and so many other things. i want to start with this because i actually am curious about it and curious about it also may be from a context of competition which is to say that we're now looking at a marketplace where effectively 30% of the s&p 500 is basically in like ten stocks. and that's double from what it was not even five years ago. is that a problem, you know, as we think about risk in the system in a way and is there anything you can do about it if it is? >> as a securities regulator we're market neutral. i just want to say that to all your viewers. but as investors, when you think about it, you have risk if there's concentration for sure, because if you buy an index fund, which, as jack bogeyle,

who started the index movement at vanguard, said why buy the needles when you can buy the haystack. buy the whole market. it's an eif ishtefficient way t invest but you have the risks of the underlying stock. whether it's the magnificent seven or the top tech or a big chunk of that. >> you have come under a lot of criticism recently which you know about. almost on both sides. i'm curious why where you think your own job is and lives right now after this administration? i say that because you've got trump on one side saying if he wins he's going to fire you. and you haven't gotten a ringing endorsement from the vice president and we're going to have mark cuban on later who would like to take your job. i'm curious as a human how you think about all this? >> i feel honored to be in this job and if mr. cuban wants the job it's because it's one of the best jobs in washington.

it's overseeing $120 trillion capital markets. it's looking at for investors and capital formation, both sides. now what have we been trying to do? we've been trying to make the middle, the markets, less costly, which is called more efficient, and less risky, called more resilient. i'm really proud of what we've been able to do in the equity markets in trying to -- like a simple things like saying you can get your cash one day after you sell your stock instead of two days later, that's called shorting the settlement cycle. >> right. >> that which we're talking about today the u.s. treasury market to instill greater competition in that market by promoting what's called alt to alt trading. >> less sexy to the broader world but super important underneath the market. >> the stock market is $55 trillion, our u.s. stock market is bigger than any others, five plus times the chinese stock market to give you a sense.

we're the envy of the world but just like a gold medalist, you have to keep improving. you have ceos on this stage who sometimes lose market share because they don't constantly improve, so i love the part of the job where we can drive, lower cost, lower risk. >> one could make the case -- both sides don't like you you're probably a good regulator, right? >> there you go, joe. >> i'm throwing you bones. >> what is your take on the argument -- especially around crypto but other things as well -- that rather than create new rules or even new laws that might have to be put into effect you have effectively regulated through legislation? that is a huge -- >> we don't legislate. >> i understand that you don't legislate. but that rather than have legislation or push for legislation or even implement rules that could be -- with real sort of bright lines if you will, that what's happened here,

especially in the crypto world, is that it's been done through the form of legislation -- not legislation, through lawsuits effectively. >> so what we are, we are a law enforcement agency and congress set us up to be. we oversee the markets and approve all those registrations when people go public and so forth. but we also -- that's 700 plus times a year bring actions -- we have to go in front of a judge and sometimes juries, so now it brings it back to this new innovation and what satoshi knack ka moto did, we're almost at october, 16th anniversary, 16th birthday of bitcoin and it's an innovation. but innovations don't long thrive if they don't also build trust. i mean the automobile wouldn't have survived if you didn't have traffic lights, if you didn't have stop signs and even cops on the road to make sure there

weren't accidents. so that's part of our role is being the cops on the beat and the rules are about the traffic lights to make sure. so in crypto, you want to raise money from the public, there's a basic idea that you put out fundamental disclosures, so that the investing public gets to choose. >> is your argument that you're doing this to make crypto stronger? >> we're -- we're merit neutral. crypto is only a small part of our capital markets. i mean it's a little less than 1% to the world capital markets. but it's basically to instill trust and protect investors. look at the leading lights in this field in the crypto field two years ago. a number of them are in jail right now. i'm not just talking about sbf. a number of others. tens of billions of dollars of losses and bankruptcies and so forth. what field in america innovative field in america, survives without having building trust in

that field? and protecting investors who are consumers if you're selling cribs or something, you don't want people to have a problem with the cribs. >> what we've heard from both candidates running in this election, first from candidate trump and then from candidate harris, is that they're going to be opening the doors probably and being more open to what crypto -- crypto enthusiasts would like to see. does that pose a problem, or are the rules kind of laid out at this point, the ground rules? >> i'm not going to comment on elections. i'm in a role -- >> not elections. on the policies. >> i love that too -- >> i'm not asking for a comment on the election. just the policies both candidates seem to be embracing. >> on the policies it's quite clear that investor protection helps build innovation. innovation is compatible with investor or consumer protection if it's about automobiles or cribs or anything else.

i think they complement each other. i said this when i was teaching back at m.i.t., i said, this field will not long survive if you can't build that investor trust in the markets. >> does the idea of a looser policy concern you? >> i think we have a time tested set of laws and rules in our securities markets. basic things. investors get to decide, but they get disclosure. roosevelt called it the truth in securities act. the basic idea we're in this building the nasdaq exists. nasdaq doesn't have the conflict of also running a hedge fund, trading on the market and those conflicts inside of those. and so it's sort of like ensuring you get the disclosures and you're protected against, you know, kind of the insiders rigging the game. >> some argument to be made that actually it would be better if all this business happening in the u.s., sbf, taking place in

the bahamass, a lot of people were trying to do things in other places. if there was a real regime here that everybody could trust and we had established rules and there weren't these questions about whether you were going to over -- go over the line or behind the line, where the line was, would that be better? >> i think that we do have those rules. >> you think those lines exist. why then do people in the industry say that they don't know what the rules are? >> look, not liking the rules is not the same as that there aren't rules. i think there's a lot that have profited off of the public's interest in this field but profited without the proper disclosures and inherently there's business models that are -- have a lot of conflicts. we've seen the results of that time in and time again, outside of crypto and inside much crypto. we see what happens when there's inherent conflict. wecht 90 years of experience with this, andrew. it works reasonably well. we have the deepest, most liquid

capital markets we're trying to make them more efficient what we're doing in the equity markets. >> i think you're warming up to top tier crypto. that's my take. >> what's that? >> i think you're warming up to top tier crypto. i don't think you think it's a monolith. i think you think there might be some actual usage or benefit to top tier crypto? would you say -- recently you're evolving to where -- go ahead. >> joe, where why you on what's called altcoins. there's 15 or 20 -- >> where are you j. >> when you came in, you said own bitcoin, you don't own all the garbage you were thinking. >> garbage was your word. >> are you worried -- >> it was not that kind of a word that you -- >> actually that's right. >> joe, for the public used a stronger word than garbage. >> if did. >> are you warming up -- do you see it's here to stay and

something that could be useful? >> this is something i said to students four and five years >> i know. you didn't say it once you were the sec chairman. >> that this field will not long persist without investor and consumer protection. many of these projects without prejudging any one are tapping into the public's interest to raise money. that's the classic securities sort of -- >> right. >> protections you put in place. you can -- you can decide to go long or short these projects, but you need the disclosures. as it relates to bitcoin, my predecessor and i have said that's not a security. you now have a way that you can actually express that view, buy into that through exchange traded products, trade it on nasdaq, trade it on new york stock exchange and the like.

>> okay. that's a yes then. if we -- where do you think bitcoin is going to be in our society 20 years from now? if you were to sort of -- >> i don't, i don't know. i mean there's 7 billion people around the globe. i'm not going to make a prediction as to any one project. but what i would say is the field is going to have a challenge building trust. >> right. >> and it already has a challenge building trust when there's so many fraudsters, scammers, grifters in the field and there are. >> what happens if, for example, former president trump is talking about whether we should have effectively a bitcoin reserve fund, a sovereign bitcoin fund? would you be in favor of something like that. >> again i'm -- >> take the politics out of it. i'm asking, you know, if -- if someone in congress came to you and said, hey, gary, we're thinking of creating a sovereign

wealth fund in bitcoin, would you say that's a good idea, bad idea? >> i would say i'm going to stick to the role i'm in. it's a great role overseeing -- >> but it can't -- >> chair of an agency -- >> you're a smart guy who knows a lot about this space, taught about this space. you should -- i imagine you have a view. you don't feel like you can share the view. i don't believe you have a view. >> i have a view. i have a view. >> the role, given your role you're not supposed to say? >> given my role and also we're in election season. so i just think, you know, for the listening public i will stick to, you know, my chalk lines and my chalk lines are securities markets and chairman powell and others at the federal reserve could speak to that. yes, i do have a view on that. >> go ahead. >> go ahead. >> please. >> all right. i know you can't comment on specific cases. so what would you -- >> are we still on crypto? >> i'm changing. i'll move on to a different

topic. you can't comment on specific cases. but let's say hypothetically you were working with investigating someone and they didn't show up for a deposition repeatedly. what is the -- >> you're right that i can't comment on any specific cases, but no one is above the law. that's our system. whether it's securities laws, whether it's other laws. and it's really important that -- we talk about trust again. trust in the markets is that whomever is in those markets, that they follow the laws. and congress has given an agency like ours authorities to compel testimony, so in your hypothetical that's an important part, and those can then -- the courts -- we don't do this alone. the courts are involved, so -- and that's an important protection.

we believe in the court system. >> if somebody doesn't show up to the depositions enough, what should happen to them? >> that would play itself out in front of a judge. >> i understand. what would the sec's position be around a ceo not showing up in court repeatedly for a deposition? >> again -- >> that you can say broadly. you don't have to talk about el. talk about it in the broadest context. a ceo in america doesn't show up repeatedly for the deposition, the approach and policy of the s.e.c. should be that you should be asking for, what? asking for fines? how much should the fines be? >> i understand. but as a general matter we then have an authority that congress has given us to go in front of the court and have that court compel that testimony. >> and compel that, how? meaning, would you say that then they should go to jail if they don't testify? what -- >> i -- again, i'm not -- it's a live matter, andrew. >> we're not talking about a

live matter but a hypothetical matter. first time that's ever happened? >> again, it's important that no one is above the law. >> right. >> whether it's securities laws or other laws, but the way our democracy works an agency like ours, part of the executive branch, goes into a court and the court ultimately assists an executive agency like ours. the securities and exchange -- >> you don't ask for a particular fine or penalty except to say -- >> we're looking for evidence. we're looking to talk to somebody. that's what -- that is what -- we conduct, these are public figures at any time, 1,500, 2,000 investigations. these are public figures. many of them, we follow the law and the facts and we close them. we don't bring any fines. we don't suggest to a court that there should be any penalties, but some we do. and some we settle. but at the investigative stage

it's important that we have an ability to gather evidence. >> gary, it's still a perception that, i don't know, take your pick. certain members of congress have a pretty did deal in terms of being able to, i don't know, be very effective at trading stock under certain -- you do you have an answer how we bring back trust in the markets? that it's an equal playing field for everyone? >> look, again, we're going to find, joe and i are going to agree on some things. we've had agreement on 15 or 20 -- >> i don't understand why you think we disagree on things, but what should we do? >> no. look, regardless of whom they are, whether in congress, whether walking on the streets right there in times square, the law says, do not trade on material non-public information. and -- but regardless -- >> i know. >> and, you know, we are only

4,900 people at the s.e.c. and we get literally something like 3,000 to 5,000 tips, complaints and referrals a month. 40,000 to 50,000 a year that we have to look at. see whether to close it out or pursue it into an investigation and so forth. >> hard to oversee -- it's hard to go after the people who are responsible for overseeing it? >> without fear or favor, we're willing to do that. maybe sometimes -- >> but that's -- >> people don't warm up to us as an agency. >> i think i've asked you this and put out the idea before, which is, you do have special rules for ceos and managementing of companies? very specific about what insider trading is and disclosures and all of that. right? how quickly they have to disclose things and the like, special rules for that. >> can i say something.

proud of something we did under this administration. under my time. those insiders, if they want to sell their stock they have to do it according to a plan and follow the plan and can't sell the stock for three months. >> one of the questions -- but i'm unaware of you either proposing a plan around congress or members of the senate, or proposing any kind of plan over the brokers who effectively manage money or facilitate those trades. you actually do oversee those people and could, if you wanted, but i think you don't, because you'd be biting the hand that feeds you? >> i think of it a little differently, andrew. i appreciate what you're saying but it's really up to congress if they wanted to change the laws or rules with regard to them, but all members of congress -- all members in congress are just like you, andrew. not to trade on material non-public information, but you're not inside the company. so inside the company, there is

added -- kwha >> i'm suggesting to you many times they are inside the company, because they are actual demonstrable insiders given meetings they're having and as a result whether they should be considered a special class. in which case given that you oversee the folks who actually facilitate the trades, whether you could actually change policy or at least even be propose policies to deal with that? talking about the credibility of the markets. >> and trust in the markets, whether -- >> people don't trust the markets because they think senators and congress are insider trading rigged in a scam. what they think. the question, is there a role for you to play? >> currently a role and we do play that role and with regard to, if somebody, whether andrew ross sorkin, joe kernen or a member of congress, who's getting a whisper from the insider and trading on it, that's against the law. we'll pursue it. >> i think we have much stricter

rules at this table than those people do. i would actually suggest that you should be in a different category. or they should be in a different category. great to see you, gary gensler. >> really good to see you. sorry we didn't get to chat. >> no, no. great. >> what we had together, really nice. >> thanks, joe. >> you're welcome. i think you felt that. >> yeah. i did. you want my job, too? >> everybody wants your job. >> i definitely don't -- you should try this job. >> do you want your job, gary? do you want it again? >> i love this job. i really do. it's such a remarkable political. i privilege. 4,900 people ginned up and could earn a lot more money. lawyers, economists, accountants. i don't think anybody could do what you do, i don't think. >> maybe. >> maybe scott, i don't know. but, no. it's a great job, becky. really, it is. >> all right. >> i can't believe i'm in this job. i love it.

>> thank you. >> you are looking at what is coming up, and i don't -- david tepper has not been in-studio in a while and always rare to have him. have him for quite a while after the break. david tepper after this. see that? that's like the gap in my health insurance. gap in your health insurance? yeah, it didn't cover everything when i got hurt. good thing i had aflac. (aflac duck) hmmm the cash i got from aflac helped pay for medical expenses,

groceries, rent. it really helped close that gap. (whisper) go, go, go! (group) yay! go aflac! go duck! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. find an agent. get a quote at aflac.com. wish we had aflac on our team. you can! at morgan stanley, old school hard work meets bold new thinking. to help you see untapped possibilities and relentlessly work with you to make them real.

it is 8:00 on the east coast. you are watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. among today's top stories, reports say openai is considering plans to restructure as of for-profit business. separately bloomberg says the company is weighing giving ceo sam altman a 7% equity stake in the dcompany. that news about openai's highly influential cheer technology officer mira murati decided to leave the company along with two other long-time employees. southwest pushing third quarter revenue guidance higher this morning as it prepares for it's investors day and battles activist investor elliott

management. the airline announcing new revenue generating ideas like international partnerships as well as cost-saving plans, too. and don't miss a first on cnbc interview this afternoon at 4:40 eastern time with southwest ceo bob jordan. also, china's highest decision-making body says the country will deploy necessary fiscal spending to meet this year's economic growth target. that announcement surprising markets and lighting a bit of a fire under the chinese stock market today. tech names gained also broader averages up by about 3 to 4% adding to the 3 to 4% gains seen earlier this week. every day more comments coming from the chinese government about what they will do to prop up the economy there. recently we learned that he sold an 84% of his stake in nvidia second quarter and increased bets on china. joining us now is david tepper. founder and president of appaloosa management. owner of the nfl's carolina panthers.

i want to start the intro totally differently by bringing up somebody else. so you nknow druckenmiller. 37% returns never a down year. i asked five years ago who does what you did well now? he goes, i'm a chicken now. he doesn't take any big bets. family money. he doesn't do what he used to do. he said david tepper is the guy who has the intestinal fortitude to make huge bets that pay off massively. we haven't seen you for a while but that's the intro i would give you, because that's you. right? are you still -- you still got the big financial, or intestinal fortitude? >> yeah. >> system making big bets that can pay off -- or not? >> listen, we're probably -- i think we do, i do have that. on the other hand, you know,

probably take smaller positions than i have in the past. >> so you are getting more conservative, in your old age? >> yes and no. okay? yes, over the last couple years probably a little bit more conservative. on the other hand, we were up the last couple years in '22-23. whatever, 12.5%. i guess market down one of those two years. so our absolute returns are better than almost everybody in the market. still got that going for us. >> which is nice. >> doesn't hurt. >> yeah. caddyshack. >> so, yeah. no. i do. we can talk about that. >> and you're a recluse. can't get you on camera. >> i'm not a recluse. >> i see you at the golf course every now and then. you don't like appearing on camera. very hard to get you on camera. >> well, but -- >> here he is. >> where i'm going. >> you called us and you said i have something to say. you must have something to say.

that's what i'm getting to. >> i had something to say. i still do have something to say. >> why we're excited to hear what you have to say. what compelled you to want to -- i mean -- >> agree to be on? >> yes. to agree to this. >> well, i thought that what the fed did last week would lead to china easing, and i didn't know that they were going to bring out the big guns, like they did, and i think there's a whole shift. i listened to you guys a little before i left home to come over here but nobody talked about it this morning on your show. you talked about it. no guests talked about it. i'm like, whoa. this is, like -- >> so this is what compelled -- this is a major -- >> before what they did last night. i thought, you know, they would start doing things and have the room because of what the fed did. the fed basically lowered 50 basis points and they -- used the magic word about, i don't

know. five, ten times, "recalibrate." an interesting word because they said, we have room, besides -- we want to do something. i don't know if they're doing what the market has in it but do something besides the 50. you know, another 25, 25, 25? seems like it's, it has to be done. a long time ago i told you have to do what people tell you to do. fed puts out a white paper, listen to what the fed does, treasury does. governments sds do what they te you to do. the fed told you they would recalibrate interest rates. that means they have a lot of room where interest rates are, pretty tight and have to bring it back towards neutral. so does that mean that it comes down -- funny how people wave at you in here -- comes down as much, much as in the market right now? no. but does it mean one or two -- probably two or three interest rates, 25 basis point cuts, they

have to do? or lose credibility? yes. you know you have the fed. with that in mind, kind of gives china the policy breadth to lower rates. thought, come out they'll lower rates, right? maybe do the fiscal stimulus everybody's calling for. dot aggressive easing they've called for in the past. so when that came in, we got a little longer. we got a little longer. more -- >> longer chinese stocks? >> more chinese stocks. okay? and so i have limits. limits, probably said a long time ago i don't go above 10 or 15%. well, that's probably not true anymore. because i set my own bar. not the nonsense in the marketplace. value at what i can sleep at night. that's the thing. >> we don't always -- when we hear the fed -- okay. they go 50. may go more. we think, oh, mortgage rates. and, oh, we think business loans

in this country. and interest rates -- immediately thought china and currency differences around the world. so that was more important to you -- >> because, see, undervaluation. you know, listen, look at your chart and achart above on your screen. whatever stock you like. in china, even within recent moves on a flat line low compared to the part. sitting there with single multiple pes with double-digit growth rates for the big stocks that trade over here. that's kind of versus what the -- 20-plus on the s&p. >> right. >> okay. then you have -- so the question was, was china going to do the things that you want them to do? okay? are they going to do the easing measures that you want them to do? so, yeah. came the other day and, what's his name? pan -- pan gongching. apologize. i can't even speak english well. he came out and was, like, jovial. like, whoa! jovial saying we're going to cut and we're going, give you more.

he said, we'll dough more, and more. as needed. now, the chinese, to say we'll do more and more if needed, they don't say that, because it's not been healthy to say those sort of things in china, but they said that the other night and i have listened carefully what government officials say. so i took it that they did a lot. they exceeded expectations and he promised to do more and more and more. okay? that's very strange language especially for any central banker especially over there. that was the first thing that happened. and last night, you know, we heard they were going to have a meeting but kind of blew away expectations on the fiscal stimulus. you know? that they were going to do. fiscal stimulus look at your charts, used to be a broker, a good way to do things fast. what can happen around the world when they do that jl now you have the fed -- backdrop. fed easing a few more easings

coming. japanese don't know what they want to the do now. doesn't matter. they'll be forced into things. i can talk about that later. european lowering rates. chinese lowering rates. aggressive how they're doing it and believe it or not, swap facilities to buy stocks. encouraging buyback of stocks. encouraging buybacks of stocks. okay? this is china. buybacks, encouraging it, lending you money to do it and given money, you can p money out and have no losses. if you want to do it. you have, you know how that works? money you put up and don't lose money. that's a great deal for me. i want to be over there for some of this stuff. >> what about this relationship between the united states and china? how the chinese government may or may not feel about american investors. more importantly how the american government feels about u.s. investors investing in

china, too? what's the risk? >> limits on how much you would invest. >> say you don't have limits? >> the other thing i thought you'd ask about tariffs, stuff like that. i do not care. this is internal stimulus. in the fiscal stimulus they did last night encouraging consumptions directly saying it. so really doing all the things that people have asked them to do over these years. so what will happen in world markets? talk with the united states, most viewers here in the united states. >> and japan. started on japan. >> go around the world. obviously this is incredibly good for very undervalued chinese equities. okay? especially when the government's encouraging buybacks. buybacks and take risk to buy stock. take out a loan buy stock can't lose money on your loan. great deal for me, if you want to be chinese. is sorkin a chinese name? no. anyway -- sorry. the united states, that's -- you have a world.

trying to figure the united states, it's not really your first plug to go to invest right now, because you would say china first, asia second. right? asia at large second. japan -- then japan. korea. those markets. also actually asia and europe. and europe. before japan. tell you -- tell you why. the problem with, you know, you have to be careful. a little bit about japan, although i think still you want to be in the equities markets. if you look what happens. if china runs -- get the economy going and get the animal spirits going, what happens? chinese throw a lot of money in their economy. who's one of the biggest beneficiaries in their own economy? it's japan. japan, if they start running faster, i don't care what this election is and they have their worried about this candidate, that candidate. ship candidates might want to the go to abenomics. i don't care. they don't understand it yet. this happened last night. the market doesn't understand it yet.

what's going to happen? japan will run too fast if they stimulate that. they run too fast they have to raise rates. when they raise rates the yen will appreciate. if the yen appreciates, then you have to be careful about the stock market. not the -- depending how it goes. the stock market in yen terms, you should still make money. how much does it move or not because of how it historically does. right? go around the world. the u.s., listen, the problem with the u.s. -- then i could go european. european -- the european index at 14 times multiple versus the 22. historically incredibly wide. >>2 here. >> 21, 22. whatever you want to say for next year. >> europe -- >> interest. >> like last -- >> japan has the same sort of multiple now. we have much better stocks, big other tech stocks. the question, you don't have the a cheap market necessarily. it's not a cheap market. it probably -- i didn't listen to him. listened a little.

cooperman said yesterday. look historically a little overvalued. i would say that. however, i get concerned about one thing. because fortunately or unfortunately, i was around in the '90s, in the '80s, too, but around the '90s, and that market, where the fed -- cut rates into y2k, a good economy. a relative, not a bad comeconom. relative okay economy. you had rich and -- before long-term credit. rich in '97. richer after long-term credit and bubble mania in the '99 early 2000. so i don't love -- i'm a value guy. i don't love the u.s. markets on a value standpoint but sure as heck won't be short. nervous as heck about the setup with easy money everywhere. relatively good economy.

you know, and massive stimulus coming in. it would make me nervous not to be somewhat long the u.s. so that's how the setup is. you have to be -- can't be short u.s. you can't be short anything in asia. anything in asia. nothing. >> let me ask. you said somewhat long, the u.s.? >> selectively. >> i was going to ask. how would you be -- where would you be selective? what looks good to you? what looks bad to you? >> some things i don't want to talk about because i might be purchasing them right now and it would make it harder for me to buy. >> talk about the things you might sell? >> right. thank you. >> you're welcome. >> no. look, today if i wanted to do chicken long china i'd buy -- and we were buying them, but -- because we're just part of our china stuff. i'd bein wynn and lvs. together sort of a chinese play with people who can't go there. kind of interesting assumption sort of stuff.

listen, we're kind of exploring differ parts of the, you know, the energy side of the tech market. >> okay. >> not to name anything in particular. we own a lot of -- in the past historically a lot of tech names. meta, google. we's own, still own nvidia and own differ things. you know, we own -- d rated stocks. >> sold nvidia? >> yeah. sold a lot of nvidia. thought it was too high and would come down. unfortunately we did buy it when it came back down, but, you know, it's okay. it's really -- those stocks like nvidia is a question. do you have enough power, okay, for the growth? do you have the next generation models that can take their chip? so it looks great in '24. looks great in '25.

i have no idea in '26 and '27. i am -- no idea. okay? i don't believe my analysts, i don't believe any analysts, i don't trust myself. know what i'm saying? i don't know how you know. too much. you have multiples out there, how it can go and variation where that earnings would be. on the out years, it's too much. it's not my preferred vehicle versus other things that i have more confidence in how i can -- how we can do in my shop analysis on earnings. >> and thought it was important to mention you'll be playing the energy component of trying to supply all of this new technology? >> trying to understand it better. >> try to understand it better. >> here's the thing, joe. i'll tell you -- >> would you avoid green? would you embrace green? would you avoid fossil fuels, embrace fossil fuels, natural

gas? >> i nethey i never think i'm t but i have a lot of common sense. i know i talked to some governors around the country both sides of the aisle. friendly with everybody, as you know. they're not collective nuclear power come off-line. not going to happen. it's a joke. some are these things are crazy. meet power needs what they need for a.i. you have to use natural gas. have to use natural gas. it's just -- >> that comes from drilling? >> yeah. we have a lot of it, and so you have to use, you know -- you're going to have to use it. you cannot take -- if you take -- i mean, if you take a current nuclear plant and think you'll get these things. it will never get by these individual pucs. it won't. it can't. it's going to hurt the consumer too much. you can't hurt the consumer that

much. it's nuts. i hear these guys talk about, well, if we did this, if i was -- okay. if i was 7'2" i would be in the nba some day. i'm not 7'2". >> you still wouldn't be in the nba. >> i don't have the skills. true story, but -- that's an interest. i'm trying to understand what really makes sense, what doesn't make sense. and we are trying to figure that out right now. but it's fascinating to me. fascinating when you look at these tech stocks. fascinating in nvidia. look at some of these things. can you do for different reasons, there's different things sthing s as you go out years different things to make growth projections happen. not saying it won't happen. i'm just not smart enough to know if they will. i know probabilities they will or not, but, no. it is what it is. i recognize those things and people make assumptions that are going to happen 100%. the united states is a great country. we innovate like heck and things

happen this way. >> one particular one. i'm telling you. not even going to kill him right away. not kill him right away. >> dare i ask how the election plays into all of this? >> so with the election i am a big proponent of split government. right now you're more than aware of it looks like the senate is republican and the house is democratic and i'm loving life. and i don't care. i'm talking purely from this show. okay? i don't care. >> what would you do if it was a sweep? just for -- >> a sweep either side? i'll just -- i don't want to talk about it that much, politics, but just say in general you have a populist on one side and a progressive populist on the other. i listen to what i hear every day. more giveaways and more of that. do i want all democrats? no. do i want all republicans? no.

i don't want -- again from a pure economic -- there's other considerations, which it's not this show to talk about. from this market perspective, economic perfect r spective good for the economy. split government and don't want up a democrats or republicans. thinking about the markets. >> and the moment it's not impacting the markets either way because you think expectation it will be split? >> the expectation's there. people bet on it. long as it's split. this may be a problem because the market thinks it will be split. a surprise, could be a problem for the markets. as long as it's a split the market's going to be fine. they will not care because they won't let them do the things they talk about. okay? >> are you afraid to play a.i. directly? you're doing the sort of downstream ways of doing it? is it just too hard to figure out? >> no. >> there's nvidia. what besides nvidia and energy -- >> we have the regular stocks

like a meta. a big beneficiary of ayei. llama. >> a.i. >> llama. >> and how they monetize their business. >> a day trade for you or something else? >> a question how much is in the stocks and what the next generation, how much more? gotten pretty good returns i think more than people appreciated with the numbers and could have near-term, all of the stocks could have near-term surprises. >> surprises? up side or down side? >> surprises on up side change models. base earnings good enough to give support for those stocks. >> right. >> you know? versus we talked about -- i kind of like nvidia, the price. don't get me wrong. i could just love it. >> okay. >> so you have to believe more. in that. >> and are you not a believe long term for a.i. to actually work and be a meaningful contributor to the economy, that nvidia's margins ultimately have to come down?

meaning as long as they have, what? 70% margin, 80% margins are some of these chips. amazing and god bless them for that. at some point to make the whole thing economical i imagine you have to come down? >> depends how much they make. right? but -- look, it's another concern potentially. >> do you have any lilly? novo? any health care, biotech? >> asking me if -- >> nope. lilly has been a growth stock. >> i don't. i don't have that. >> no health care? >> back to china again. >> whichy i think is the bigges thing people have to understand it because of implications -- in bonds. currencies and stocks. talk about the currencies and bond side. >> just with stocks themselves. thinking of your positions. alibaba, a big position. loaded up first quarter.

cut back in the second quarter i think. what are you doing now? did the china moves over the last -- because you were saying in the past wouldn't go more than 10 or 12%? recent things we've seen you have about 12% of alibaba. does that mean you put those aside and would own even more than that? >> as i said, the value at risk model is what i sleep at night. i'm having, i had a fine -- went over that limit on the fed announcement. okay? you know, in the last week. i went more when they said a day or two ago on their fed, and last night i did more. >> just alibaba? >> everything. >> jd, baidu? >> everything. every-thing. etf, you know -- how we do futures, right? everything. everything! listen, a long time ago in 2010 i think i said everything. >> i remember. i remember when you said everything and you were right.

>> what was good? "everything." so if -- they were -- this is incredible stuff for that place. okay? so it's everything. now, i would love to see a pullback. okay? because i will then, my newfound limit, might have been twice my oldfound limit. >> 10 to 24%? >> just say what it is. i will have another newfound limit in a pullback. okay? if i see these absolutely be implemented because, again, you can look at these names, and just talking about single-digit pe multiples with double-digit growth. wait a second. this is the other thing. you have some of these stocks with 50% cash. some of these thinks you just put up on the board. it 50% cash. 20%, 30% cash and that cash depending how the chinese currency goes, maybe if the chinese currency is really strong they'll want them to buy

back. >> so -- >> did you see this thing? buyback stock. >> you're a hedge fund. how do you hedge your risk? the counterbet just in case you put on that? >> know what? you -- i'm sitting here in a suit. my counter bet is that i don't care. >> it's -- hedge fund is an oxymoron for -- >> in this case no hedge? >> look, looking at a market where 20 times plus. right? okay. versus a market that's single digit with double-digit growth rates opinion and be cash pieces, which i'm not adding in -- make it more. okay? so what is the multiples you can make versus what you can lose? okay? where's the risk in the near term? a risk for me is, the risk is, could be that. but that's going to be because chinese will get stronger.

>> let me ask you -- last thing to mention to you. look, nobody's invested. zero investment. so that's going to mean -- what you said that people have to go, put cash in there make it strengthen. as currency strengthens that means more room -- in their minds to ease, because it may be that instead of worrying about the, it going down they have to worry about it going up. >> right. you made big calls before, but then situations you've reversed and quickly in a way, viewers may not always appreciate. >> if they don't come to pass. >> my question. what is the thing you would watch for to reverse the view? >> if these things don't come to pass. i mean, just -- they would have to -- this was -- this is -- andrew sorkin equivalent. this is xi. he would have to go out put a strong statement and reverse

himself. i don't know this -- this leader as well as i do know some other leaders with some tendencies that don't like to basically reverse what they say so publicly and loudly. leaders don't usually like to say it. they like to stand by what they do. >> locked in you say for some period of time? >> i think. i could be wrong. if it's wrong, i might change it up. >> i haven't heard you now mention like this since the -- the tepper table. >> a couple times. didn't talk during the, fed white paper and -- 2010 when they, kind of the -- listen, same thing. you know, you just read what these guys are saying. powell told you something. okay? he didn't promise you. he told you some calibration. he has to fool through somewhat. okay? these guys, basically more and more -- never before. i love when people say never before. they do stuff. okay. rime not that smart. i keep telling people. i told you last.

i'm not that smart. i read what they say. do they have conviction? these guys usually do what they say especially with this level of conviction. usually happens this way. >> you told me keep riding the horse but not get off the horse. i don't know if you never did get off the horse? >> which horse? >> a couple years ago. actual text. preserved for when you say things but do you remember when you said, "keep riding the horse." i said will you tell me when i should dismount? here you are, and never did -- >> because he never fully dismounted. >> i don't think he did. >> no, no. so with the other things, listen. the big question for people, different market, big market bets out there people have to consider. one is the big kerry bet on japan, could get blown out of the water. not saying it can. a lot of factors, it could move the other way. if they do this stuff and you look historically, what's

happened when china's been running, japan has a heck of a lot of currency appreciation. you know, no the that people pay attention to it anymore. personal parity-type models. it's at, where now? 144? an interesting situation. does it -- now, you have interest rate differential. cost money to be in the end. the big trade. short china a big trade out there. short and not be long china big trade out there. disallocation of this stuff, this stuff, that happened last night and happened in the last few days is potentially large in the marketplace. and eventually depending what happens, now always tension in the world and in the middle east, maybe, who knows -- >> 8:30 so -- >> ask david one last quick question. you said that -- >> 30 seconds. >> 21, that crypto, bitcoin was gold to you. >> yeah. >> still own it?

bought more? would you buy more? just had -- >> gold to me i didn't mean it was "gold" to me. it's great. a gold-it type equivalent. >> do you own any? >> a little. the expert, my son is the guy that does crypto. i sometimes play with it but i really don't have any investments in it. >> all right. we can get the data -- even blow that off for you but go to rick santelli. >> thank you. >> david tepper, awesome. >> in-studio. rick santelli what do you got? economic data. >> i have a lot of numbers to throw out here. let's start out with -- gdp. third time around the block on second quarter. we still see some movement, which is pretty interesting. from 2.9% expected we get 3%. that's the same as it was in the rearview mirror and's that's the best since the last quarter of last year when it was 3.4. consumption dropped 2.9 to 2.8.

look at price index, remained at 2.5. 2.5 was the lowest on that price index since the last quarter of last year when it was 1.6. significantly lower and finally look at the pce core, a quarter over quarter remained at 2.8 also lightest since the -- excuse me. biggest since the last quarter of last year when it was 2.0. 2%. now shift gears a bit. initial and continuing claims. everybody, of course, waiting for those. initial claims, 218,000. just remained so well behaved from a slightly revised 222,000. 218,000, look at the -- 218,000 number and take the 219, which was the smallest going back to mid-may, that now becomes your comp on 218 remains mid-may. throw it out there. last time we were above 250,000 was august of '23.

august of '23. i pulled that number out because it's a psychological area we like to pay attention to and a 16th consecutive week above 1.8 million on continuing claims. 1, 834,000. durable goods, of course, we all know durable goods is volatile. august preliminary reads in a couple weeks they will change. headline number expected to be a big minus maybe down as much as 3% comes in unchanged. this is interesting. it's unchanged and last month our final move moved to 9.9 and remains strongest level going all the way back to july of 2020. i do want to point out if you look at the june number it was minus 6.9. in a was the weakest since april of 2020. so many of us just looked at this as kind of a kickback. the fact is was revised higher and this number remained unchanged is very significant.

now, look at ex transportation, up half 1%. we can see the transportation aspects of this made a positive difference being up half 1%. actually healthiest number of the year. go to the last month of last year when it was up 0.6. and ex comes in 2. -- 0.2 of a percent. 0 b 0.2%. shipments, 0.1. both very near expectations and see that the strength there and the continuing claims and initial claims being as expected. initial claim rees maining low pushing yields up. ten year yields now at 3.79. eventually unchanged. two-year note yields at 3.57. . at 3.53. takeoff on yields on a group of data points. stronger durable goods and well behaved in terms of initial

claims. becky, it's a lot of numbers, but the market synthesized is accurately, in my opinion. >> so did you, rick. always appreciate it. she's the maestro. thank you. when we come back investor mark cuban is with us to talk the election and the markets. back after a quick break.

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welcome back to "squawk box." vice president kamala harris sitting down for one of her first one on u.n. interviews, since becoming democratic nominee for president. an ex-change with msnbc's st stephanie ruhle about tariffs. >> president trump is looking to potentially implement more. where do you come out on? a good tariff, a bad tear of? >> part is you don't just throw around the idea of just tariffs across the board and that's part of the problem with donald trump. frankly, i'm, i say this in all sincerity. he's just not very serious how he thinks about some of these issues. and one must be serious and have a plan and a real plan that's not just about a talking point ending in an exclamation at a political rally, but actually

putting the thought into what will be the return on the invest? what will be the economic impact on everyday people? >> a lot of ground to cover with our next guest. bringing in mark cuban for takeaways. a billionaire and entrepreneur. curious where you stand. listening to her, you called in a couple weeks what you thought she would would be telling the public and we quizzed you. went back and forth about just how much you knew versus what the public knew. how much more do you think the public knows now and how much more do you think the public should know? >> i think obviously they know more. she's talking more, given speeches. clear about tariffs right there and got 40 days to communicate other things. remember, think of this as a business and she's the ceo. she went from lack of favorability, lack of awareness and way behind donald trump. right? to here we are. 50 days later from where she

started. she's at worse tied. right? people on her economic policy, she was behind trump 25%. now she's behind 11%. so she's making progress. if she just continues along that trend. the trend is her friend. it means she's doing the right things. she'll keep on communicating new in ideas, new elements. a lot more specific or tariffs where she stands. the difference between her and donald trump to her point. donald trumpwill say what fits to the audience. when you talk -- when i talk to her team about differ things. whether health care, tariffs whatever it may be she goes back her team does a full analysis. doesn't just say yes or no. they dig into what she says. impacts. >> a critique she will say whatever the audience wants. look at the tipping it thing that took place in nevada. given some of the details we don't have on certain things, is that because some of those details would be less favorable in terncertain audiences? >> did you see the elon quote?

know what what you think about elon. >> i like elon. >> i do, too. at 28% favorability and then as you say, all the way up to about 50%. i would argue that filling in the blanks does not account for that move. that the main -- the media coverage has been so positive, and almost, mark, it's like we don't have to worry about trying to elect this guy who is clearly not up for another four years and it's not donald trump. so they would have -- the left and the people that need a candidate would have embraced anyone at that point, and you know abc. 100% positive coverage of her. 92% negative of trump. so elon says -- what changed the media coverage? >> okay. first, what's the most watched news channel? who are the most watched and viewed and listened to podcasts? who are the most watched and listened to -- >> is it fox? >> yeah. right? it's not close. right? number one shows are all fox. number one podcasts --

>> even in spite of that able to -- >> no spite of that -- yeah. main stream media is not who you think it is. the mainstream media truly leans right. >> why it's only tied then? >> maybe. right? >> i don't know. >> where do you think she really is in terms what the election is, the polls and betting -- do you look more at betting sites? what do you look at? >> i'm an investor in poly market to a fund and u.s. citizens can't bet on her. right? it's kind of a meaning wlsz number. predicted i haven't followed. i don't know. >> i was -- you know, we've disagreed. go back and forth sometimes on twitter. i just think the -- i don't know whether good or bad that there are half the people that under no circumstances, no matter what, would ever vote for donald trump. >> can you imagine why? >> on the other half, where i'm getting. >> okay. >> the other half, there are half the people that under no

circumstances can look at what her comments have been in the part and there's just -- for whatever -- just having gone back to with me the dukakis days, mcgovern days, there's just no way that -- i'm not speaking for what i would do now, but people think it's patently so far left are and progressive would never under any circumstances voted for kamala harris and here we are. have you convinced anyone to change. yes, of course. >> you've convinced people to change? >> yeah. sure. what i say and what i think is happening. learned from donald trump the last years. it's night and day difference. not so much in the democratic party until kamala harris. she learned what he did. he took over the republican party. the way the republicans were in 2015 is nothing like they are in 2024. out in republican party's basically become the family business. kamala harris has learned from

that and basically taken over the democratic party. >> does not sound like a good thing. >> may or may not be but it's reality. to win, said yesterday, not an ideologue. open to all ideas, business, whoever. that's important. the difference. listen to her talk, we talked about donald trump. her team really does vet. even if it's no tax on tips. they vet the whole thing and very considered. >> what about -- >> when bernie sanders said she'll say anything? the democratic party go, ufyou idiot. shut up. he said she'll move to the center but still holds dear all the things he holds dear. >> have you seen her talk to or about elizabeth warren or bernie sanders? >> could be calculated. >> right. wouldn't be a bad move, but -- same time, i truly believe she's gone to the center. >> really? >> because the country, she believes and knows the country needs to come together. >> what do you think about

neither of these candidates talk about the debt or deficit ever? >> that's -- >> a great giveaway and the question is who's giving away more? >> yeah. yes and no. >> a competition going on. >> she was straightforward raising tax. corporate 28%. still cheaper than a tariff plus 20%. >> wouldn't you personally rather stay at 21%? >> doesn't affect me one way or the other. >> not you. for everybody else. >> the country. >> no. you have to look at the deficit. revenue -- >> not where the, i don't think that's where we should go. >> where would you go for it then? >> taxing his loans he takes on billions. >> and i don't do that. right? >> you know the people that are -- >> when interest rates were near zero everybody did that. can't make more than 1% on your return, it was easy to, right? with interest rates at 4, 5% makes no sense. do that and she's not opposed to it but not generating as much money. a lot more revenue available

from taxes on stock buybacks. taxes on these, think where the cash structure is in a company. you have something to invest in r & d whatever you do it. a company to buy or people to hire, do it. can't find a better way to invest capital, you buy back shares. so it's really saying, okay. tax the buybacks creating a ton of revenue to reduce the deficit, and create a ton of revenue or change business behavior. yesterday a guest on saying we saw the good stock buybacks then with prices at high levels saw bad ones, too. pointed that out. >> always bad ones. >> high levels. if it does that, changes corporate behavior you won't have revenue, assumed from it? >> fine. invested in it or paying dividends. pushes them towards dividends. suggested, i don't know if they'll do it. family of four, if you have income under $89,000 div dead are tax-free. bump up that amount to 250 or

$400,000. a higher tax rate on stock buybacks pushes dividends, tax-free money goes into the economy. microsoft did a special dividend millions of dollars 20 years can impacted gdp. having big companies put money back in the dividends and now investors truly buying because they get a return instead of hoping the market goes up, that's not a bad thing either. >> industrial policy? one of the things she talked about investing in a number of different industries in a big way. >> a big way. >> the next ten years? some say shouldn't have steel policy like this and tried it before, a mistake. others say we need to. >> different world. our military dominance, our place in the world depends on our ain'bility to invest in a.i. whoever wins in a.i. has the best military. no question about it. period, end of story. private companies invest a lot, the department of defense obviously invest lots. we need to do more. we cannot lose that battle or we

lose everything. that defines our currency, how we competed in the world, defines our military. interesting in that is critical. >> a piece out recently there has not been a manufacturing boom. there was, postpandemic for a year, but it's been bad. been bad the past few years. ism, index, contracting since 2022 right when the i the i.r.a passed. my theory. >> winners and losers. >> intel. we decide intel can't get out. >> tsmc making 5 millimeter nano, whatever chips already. that's needed. critical, right? for u.s. security. to your point. what is it 75% of manufacturering have under 20 employees. right? there's like 4,000 companies that have more than -- manufacturing companies.

donald trump is trying to come in with a hammer and say, you're the nail. i'm going to hit you with a 200% tariff john deere. kamala harris saying give you incentives to manufacture more. which is going to work better with companies? be underherb neeneath a hammer? chinese competitors, their chinese competitors are less expensive than john deere. not so easy. saw what happened with carrier, right? in 2016, you move down tax you more. 35% tariff then. carrier did, they gained the system. right? just fired different employees. >> do you think any of the 40-year highs in inflation are attributable to price gouging? do you care that that is the entire premise on -- >> no. you're misrepresenting what she's saying, joe. >> watching her ads now. you've seen the ads? >> of course. >> bring down --

>> prices -- >> what do you think caused the 40-year -- do you think supermarket gouging had anything to do with -- >> no, no. >> you think putting too much stimulus on top of a supply constrain. >> yeah. >> just looks to me 0 they're not being truthful with us and trying to deflect blame of corporations because of their records. >> too important. another hur scane, another tornado. another natural disaster and 37 states that have lost -- >> free market comes in. >> it doesn't, joe. eventually, meanwhile, 37 states have the same type of law. right? >> by the way, how do you feel about credit cards? >> -- >> trump wants to -- controls. >> one candidate brought up price controls and that donald trump. >> either one we talk what tariffs are going to do. in one case we have, we know exactly what his tariffs did the first timing. 1.9% inflation.

we know exactly -- that's where it was. where it was. the other thing, mark, i still think immigration and illegal immigration is a huge drain on a lot of the jobs we've added. there's been no -- no net gain among natural-born -- i'm not sighing immigrants, but i don't think you can have an open southern border. >> she said the same thing. >> she had a chance. >> but joe, you know there's a lot of coos that when the ceo leaves for whatever reason, come in, take over, and have completely different policies and approaches. right. that's just the way it works. when you're second in chommand you do what your boss tells you to do. >> the border was supposed to be her. >> it's his policies. what he said to her was you go down and use diplomacy to try to improve, try to reduce the flow, the migration of people across the border, right. when they finally came around, and it took too long, i agree, when they finally got there, now look at the results. it didn't take a wall, but yet,

the crossing numbers are where trump's were prepandemic. the same numbers. it works. what she did actually worked. look, let me add one more thing, because we'll go into haiti and all that stuff, when did the civil wars in haiti start? >> when did we go to haiti? >> illegal immigration and haiti. >> the haitians were legal immigrants. >> brought over under different programs. the point i want to make they talk about no wars, right. when did the haiti civil war start? in may of 2020 during the trump administration. what he could have done something to deal with that and that would have preempted a lot of problems they're having now that he's talking about. >> let me ask you what could be the regulatory regime under harris. you just saw gary gensler. >> yeah. >> you said at least publicly you want his job. >> yep. >> lina khan on "60 minutes" on sunday and interesting things

that were said. examples where she brought prices down especially in health care which is your world. >> right. >> some of that seemed egregious but at the same time a whole bunch of ceos and big businesses that think they're being unfairly attacked in deals that should be done that can't be done. what do you think harris does? that's something she has not addressed yet? >> well she's been very clear about the fact she's against regulation via litigation. she said it. she's had me say it for them. >> is that a veiled way of saying that gary gensler is legislating through lawsuits >> i don't think it's veiled at all. you know. i think it is what it is. in terms of lina, she's done some things right and wrong. her efforts in the pharmacy space have been right on. she's done a good job. her efforts to try to break up these mergers, i don't agree with. >> not just -- i'm not asking whether you agree with it. >> i don't know what she's going to do. >> that's a big question for the world of -- >> i get personnel is policy, right. we haven't heard anything from

donald trump either. all we've seen donald trump do is hire his relatives. rnc here comes the daughter-in-law. who is going to speak for him? his two sons. want to come up with a new -- we have a new silver coin. we have blockchain, here comes another son. you haven't seen him work with -- the family business is now the republican party. >> mark, you're asking a lot of people to make a big leap of faith on, for example, i've got like 15 things you've seen them they're in ads for -- >> pretty much. >> mandatory buyback or abolishing the filibuster, banning offshore drilling, no more private insurance companies, decriminalizing -- so don't believe she'll do any of those things and then the things you don't like that happened under the biden administration you say she didn't have control over because she wasn't ceo. don't take responsibility for those things that she did.

>> how about all the hot spot around the world. >> here's the difference -- another difference between kamala and donald. donald says something and everybody else tries to explain

we can look at what happened when she's vice president and it's not good. >> being the president is different than being vice president. >> so she can take -- she can take credit for the good things that happened with biden, but she didn't have anything to do with the bad things. >> donald trump takes credit for things that doesn't even exist, right. the things that didn't even happen. we forgets we had to pay tens of billions to farmers because his tariffs backfired. he forgets about all -- >> the tariffs still on. >> we're talking about farmers' tariffs, right. not talking about steel. today what do they talk about? they talk about eliminating ev because it's a security threat. that's smart, right. >> one minute. we need a bell. the end of the one minute. back to your corners. >> we had john paulson on the broadcast a couple days ago earlier this week and at the end i made a reference to january 6th and to mike pence, and he said -- not that he didn't want to talk about it, brushed it aside as a separate matter. here we are talking about policy, right. we're having real policy

conversations. >> the underpinning the guy -- >> but my question how much do you think as ceos who are watching this program, just a voter, is i still at that point i think he really did believe it had been stolen. i don't know if he believes it anymore. >> i remember -- >> you know in the past there have been democrats that have voted no the to certify. >> yeah. that's fine. >> plane times. >> but -- >> previous elections. >> none of them called their vice president a -- and said don't certify the election. there's the only one to do that.

>> he got stormy daniels. there's a lot of -- >> i don't care about his character. i don't care about what had does in his personal life. i could care less. you have to live up to your oath of office as the of the united states. you cannot trust donald trump would do that. talk about history, he has ripped off more hardworking americans than probably anybody else. down here down the street when michael cohen said he was instructed to short pay and that was a good thing, at the end of the day when donald trump stood up good thing? would you support any ceo like that. >> mark cun, aba longer conversation. you have to come back to the table. >> i will. >> i beg you to come back to continue this debate.

good thursday morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." with sara eisen and mike santoli live at the new york stock exchange. jim and carl have the morning off. the futures as we begin the trading day half hour from now you can see we are setting up for a significantly higher open. and that i