doing great, we see greatfuture going forward, and their rate evaluation is half their peers. the company was doing great during covid and then it dropped. now it's about 60. we think it's great going forward. >> that is good news for that company because the product is one i know all of us have used at one time or another. thank you very much. and thank you, everybody, for watching "power lunch." good to have you with us. >> i'll be back at 4:00 p.m. we have carli lloyd. thanks so much. welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner live from post nine at the new york stock exchange. this make or break hour begins with, of course, the markets. we're watching the activity today because there is a lot going on. yes, we're up. we'll still a bit unsettled. tech good, china bad. another storm very much in focus today. we're going to ask our experts over this final stretch what all of it means to your money. in the meantime, the scorecard with 60 minutes to go in regulation, we have been green

throughout it's a big day for m tech. nvidia back above $3 trillion in market cap. amazon and microsoft shaking off more downgrades. oil is falling. yields pretty calm as well and so is the vix for a change. you put it all together, and as we begin this final stretch, we're trying to work some stuff out. it is this resilient market. let's welcome in adam parker, founder and ceo, also a cnbc contributor. welcome back. >> great to be here. >> what is your current read on the market and what's been a really noisy week or so? >> jen-hsun is in new york today telling all the institutional investors there will be return on investment for nvidia, and calming people down. when i do my meetings, we have to take three or four times it comes up, one of the biggest investment controversies is what will the return be for the hyperscalers. you get the ceo of nvidia in

town saying calm down, i don't know if guys went out and bought more, but that stock did well. >> it's up 4%. >> he comes around regularly. he's doing his normal boss in new york trip, but he knows one of the biggest five or ten investment controversies is will companies see a return on that, and the answer is yeah. after a lunch meeting i had, i looked at the health care stuff on nvidia's website to get excited about some of the applications there. so for sure, i think that debate, people know that the quarter is going to be fine. it's not for quite a while, but that maybe they feel better about the debate. >> did you feel better about this trade then? the overall mega cap trade? this is back above $3 trillion in market cap. >> i still think that, look, two things. there's two currents. one, semis, you want to be overweight for one, two, three, and five years. okay, i like the trade. i don't think i'm smart enough to know exactly what week it

pulls back, but nvidia was at 14, it went to 140. i wasn't smart enough. it's a long. >> you're saying don't pay attention to the price action really in that space? >> i don't think so. what i think happens with growth investing is when you get in the most expensive 10%, then you get in that alarm area. but as you know, a lot of the semi companies, revenue is up and estimates are up. >> i had rick reader on earlier, and he came across as he described himself as basically an uncomfortable bull. a lot of money around, so it's hard not to be bullish, but then he looks at the multiples and he is like, i'm a little uncomfortable. it sounds like you share a few that way, ight? >> yeah, i don't mind me associated in the same sentence with him in any way. so sure. you know, i think there are certain names. we're working on research, looking at stocks that have been

rewritten. i can tell you i think costco is an amazing company. a good store, we like some of the operating characteristics. but there aren't that many companies that are $250 billion plus in revenue and trade 50 times forward. you get nervous, you're uncomfortable a little bit about the valuation even if you think it's a great business. i don't think the mag seven are at that level. they're not quite that expensive because they're growing pretty well. growing faster than the market excluding the stocks, whatever, 7 through 500. so i think things are okay. people get a read that maybe earnings is going to be fine so they're a little more relaxed about the next three to six months. >> why do you think the market has been as pretty resilient as it has? we have an election a few weeks away. have another very, very big and dangerous storm heading towards florida right now. >> right. >> not to mention just other

issues that are out there, yields are still hovering high. i can go down a list of other things. >> in july and august, i was worried, even into september about the slowing u.s. consumer. i didn't think the fed cutting would solve it alone. china kind of did a bit of a weird head fake. they got people excited there would be multiple things coming and they took a step back today. you don't want to fight stimulus plus the front den. i just did a bunch of meetings. i don't know anybody who thinks the fed is going to cut six, seven times in the next year. people think if they do, it's because conditions got much worse. i see the big firms now saying i'm now at my normal probability of recession back to 15%. like we never had a recession and people took their recession probabilities down. i remember them taking it up as time went on. i think people are more comfortable that we have some macro data that is not acute. that maybe spending will be pushed off until after the election and we'll get more

confidence out of the ceos for next year. i think people think the risk reward is better and that's where people's heads are. i never thought the mag seven should underperform unless you're very bullish on the market. >> you have interesting sector recommendations based on the view that you just articulated. you want to be underweight comp services and underweight financials. >> yeah, i think -- >> that's an interesting call because there are some who suggest you need the financials to help this market continue moving higher. you're suggesting i like them, but you're still kind of bullish on the market. >> first, the market could do well without banks doing well. there are a lot of things in financials. i think a lot of the banks aren't that cheap. i think the interest rate environment that i'm rooting for, i know what i want, a 5%

ten-year, an economy that is growing. i can't come up with a path why that's anywhere near possible. >> you say that because of the net income. >> and i think that's unlikely. i would rather play offense maybe with select, with ai semis, with select health care, which would be offense and defense depending on what it is. utilities isn't just your traditional rate stuff. >> utilities are up a lot. you still want to be overweight that group? >> i do. i think that if you look at the themes that i think are going to work, one, three, five years. ai, semis. power to the whole complex. select software, health care services, housing, and related. those things will grow above gdp. the things i want to avoid, banks that have to spend money before they benefit, commercial real estate. there are trades i want to avoid. i have been wrong about the banks in the last few months. they act better than i thought they would, and i think now from saying do i want to play offense, i don't know if i can by -- some of these banks are up

a lot. regions, key, i would rather take a shot at, you know, kkr, one of the biggest kind of plays that has a lot more upside. when you take a step back, citigroup is the same size as kkr. kkr has 45,000 employees and citigroup has 250,000. it's a difference. i think there's ways to play financials without buying traditional banks. >> and health care. you're still bullish? >> i love it. i think this is like the next three to five years you're going to start seeing more and more examples of productivity, whether it's in, you know, better services at hospitals, at medical distributors. whether it's in life science generally, and ultimately maybe down the road even in drug development. i think the way we think about health care in the next few years is going to change. >> because of ai? >> yeah, predictive analytics across the board, optimization in hospitals. you'll be much more proactive. devices, this thing here is

going to be like five years from now. it's going to say, hey, you might need to get a checkup. it's going to be much better and i think that's where we're headed and i want exposure to that. in the interim, i can get defense because there will be these companies that have lots of revenue, and their margins can go up. this whole stock market is about margins. you don't want to short stocks where margins are going up. i can dream for some of these health care service companies they're going togrow the revenue. >> you were a bit cautious, right, and then you became a little more constructive when china had their announcement. i remember our conversation. but now you called it a head fake. so that doesn't change your broader view? if they're not going to stimiate as much as maybe you thought they would? >> it seems like the best signal you want is to know what they're going to do one day in advance, then you buy casinos and copper. somebody's making 50% in both

directions. it just wasn't me. look, i know tepper and other stuff thought the china thing was real, too. we'll see. i think there's a skew to the positive. i never thought you would see it in the earnings right away. i still like copper anyway, so i think you want to be neutral to constructive here into earnings and guidance. i don't see any reason to get too negative because we made it through, and there's lots of things to own. >> all right, let's bring in keith learner and max ketner. gentlemen, welcome to the program. max, you're first. what's your view? >> we're still pretty bullish. you guys are talking about being uncomfortable bulls. i would describe myself as a very, very comfortable bull. we have been bullish throughout really the last couple months. we have new year's eve really believed in this story around the u.s. consumer being or feeling much more constrained.

i still really would believe in that story. i think in terms of positioning going forward, you want to play the opposite of what worked in q3. more going into the tech stuff, into materials, nto discretionary as well. really playing a bit more cyclicality. in fact, the high frequency data since august in the u.s. has been picking up. it has been pretty solid and i think if that's validated by friday, people were waiting for that one data point in the labor market where everyone sort of realized, look, it's not just the activity data which might be lagging, but it's really across the board where the u.s. is just doing pretty fine. we're still looking at the cost around 3%, to me, it's like playing the opposite of what worked in q3, taking your bond proxies, your utilities, your real estate as your potential short and the longs being more of the cyclical stuff now for the next couple weeks and

months. >> i find it interesting you want to play the opposite of what worked. because in large part, what worked was anticipating what was going to happen. fed was going to cut, the economy stayed strong, you would want to be in some of those cyclical areas. why do you want to go opposite of what was working? i mean, there is something about momentum and a trend, no? >> yeah, there is, but i think at the end of the day, when we look at the last couple months, i think people were freaking out a little too much with the july cpi and of course this unwinding of the carry trade at the beginning of august. let's remember, at least me, i have had no other discussions other than how much of that carry trade needs to be unwound. that was pretty much the only discussion in august. in september, the discussion was why do you still want to be long risk? this bad seasonality period, and look how well that worked in the last two years and that's going to be exacerbated now by

election uncertainty. why would you want to be long risk? and look at some of the data and the labor market is showing some signs of weakness. i think particularly with data, but i think one of the things that are still really underappreciated is the revisions of the national accounts data we had a week and a half ago, and at least me, i have never seen a set of revisions that was revising every single subset of the data higher. whether that is incomes, whether that's wages and salaries, whether that's dividend income interest, gdi, every single thing got revised higher and it was destroying a lot of the barriers to pushback, well, gdi versus gdp divergence. a lot of economists used that. that narrative got destroyed. the profitability is only a mag seven story, actually, the economy looks better. the narrative got destroyed

around wages and salaries being stronger, which points to a healthier labor market than we thought. a lot of the narratives and bearish pushbacks that people have been giving me have frankly been pushed out of the window. >> keith, is the environment as bullish as max payments it to be? >> i think overall, it's still positive and we're still bullish and still sticking with the trend. i think if you look at some of the basing pillars of the market, the price trend is still up, and don't fight central banks. maybe the fed slows down a little bit, but if the economy starts to weaken some, there will be probably be more press. i think china will continue to provide stimulus. i think the market got a little overheated on a short term basis, but i would be surprised if they let it roll over quickly after coming out with all this ammunition. there's been this kind of one month we're arguing where the economy is headed toward recession and the next month we're saying it's moving too

fast. corporate profits have been unbelievably stable. i think technology is going to reassert its leadership and we're starting to see that today. breaking into a two-month high. the earnings in tech is still the strongest we have, and we'll see more of a rotation back into that area. we're going to see hiccups along the way, but in our view, the underlying trend is still one that moves up over time. >> are you comfortable, keith, if yields remain elevated? >> at 4%, i'm comfortable. where i feel less comfortable is if we start moving north of 4.25%, 4.5%. at 4%, on a relative basis, stocks look relatively attractive and more importantly, credit spreads are extremely tight. we're not seeing anything systemic as a whole, and again, if yields are moving up somewhat because the economy has shown a bit more resiliency, that should be a positive for corporate profits. >> yeah, look, the best thing is to romanticize your contrarian

bear and then you're right. you want everyone to be negative, you know, contrarian bull and then you're right. i think the problem right now is everyone, i think, is pretty positive. i think most people that i talk to are positioned that things will grind higher, that the yield will end -- >> really? you talk to a lot of institutional investors, hedge fund folks. they don't sound like wildly bullish. there are idiosyncratic stories they're bullish around. overall, i feel like some chips are coming off the table. >> people sold some tech and they're starting to get back in. i think if you talk to people who are stock pickers, they would say my assumption is we end up 3% higher, the fed is your friend, we get some uncertainty out of the way. i would have thought in july that we would have seen some companies say things were slowing in september, and we

really didn't. you had fedex kind of miss. a couple one-off things but you didn't see like a real slowdown. >> certainly the jobs report wouldn't suggest that there's a slowdown. i mean, it was slower but not, you know, you're still doing jobs at a pretty healthy clip. >> yeah, and so the question is, they cut a little bit and the unemployment rate goes down 3.5. how can they cut more? so it depends, what i don't know right now and i think it's an investment controversy, how much is the multiple right now embedding that they cut another more than 50, 75, or just we do 50, 75, the economy is okay, we have right sided and then we don't do anything for a year. maybe not doing anything is great. that's bullish. >> strategist targets, max, continue to go higher, and they make the argument that the multiple is fair currently where we are in the stock market.

even though it's historically high. what do you think? >> yeah, i would say so. when you look at the multiples, one thing i have a problem with when people just look at ten-year, 20-year averages or look at the s&p multiple around the first cut and all those sorts of things because what it does, of course, ignores when we look at margins, why have margins in the u.s. expanded so much in the last seven, eight years? a lot was the 2017, 2018 tax cuts, return on equities, the one-off bump on return on equity back then. a lot was also tech and frankly if you look for examples just in the u.s. versus the rest of the world, you ask investors and say look, do you want to pay that high of a multiple for the s&p? do you want to buy u.s. equities at such high multiples, they say no, but if you phrase the question slightly differently and just show them the line of here's the s&p roe and the s&p

margins relative to the rest of the world and look at how since 2010, there's pretty much a straight line up, would you buy that? pretty much everyone says of course they would want to buy that. frankly, if you buy u.s. equities if you're long s&p, you're paying a higher multiple because there's a higher profitability. you're paying a higher price for the better earnings quality, the better earnings delivery, better and higher profitability and therefore i'm pretty comfortable with that. the only thing where i would slightly disagree is the sentiment of positioning now. when we look at our majors which is extremely surprising, when we look at our stuff, we're not seeing neither a buy nor a sell signal even though the s&p is close to an all-time high. we're still not seeing a tiny whiff of a sales signal, and i have been in the u.s. touring the east coast for two weeks. we have not seen an awful lot of people being bullish at least

with us, so i still would say there's a bit more upside from sentiment of position. >> in my experience, i focus mostly on u.s. equities so i'm defer on some of your conversations. most cross asset people i talk to tend to run more bearish on u.s. equities because they have to think long term. they have piles of money behind them, so it's harder for them to say, hey, we have been underweight u.s. equities, now we're going to add. they're tethered a little bit to their neutral call. when i talk to u.s. portfolio managers, what i do all day, i think they're directionally skewed to the positive. we did, i don't know, i do meetings all day, and that's what people say to me. >> thanks, everybody. i appreciate it. breaking news right now, too. cerebras company is likely to

postpone their ipo. they want to be a competitor to nvidia, right? >> yes, this is a highly anticipated deal. delaying the publicplisting. this is the ai chip maker that competes with nvidia. a big deal in terms of that company potentially going public. reuters reporting the hang-up here is with cfius, the committee on foreign investment in the united states which reportedly has questions over an investment from g-42, that's a fund out of abu dhabi, a united arab emirates fund and the firm is a big power player. it's invested in openai, it has a high profile relationship with microsoft as well. cfius is expected to green light the deal later this year, but it is a bump right now in the ipo road show, which was supposed to kick off next week. no comment from cerebras. no word from those organizations yet. >> thank you. that's kate rooney. we have another news alert.

another ipo. leslie picker with those details. >> hey, scott. it appears this one is going forward. it's kindercare, and i'm told by people familiar with the matter that this one is expected to price within the range, so nottive above the range, not below the range, but this is newsworthy in the sense that kindercare tried to go public a few years ago, ultimately wound up postponing and then pulling their ipo due to regulatory concerns surrounding this one. you see that word kind of pop up in the ipo environment. but if it were to price say at the high end of the range at $27 per share, that would imply an ipo size of $648 million and a valuation over $3 billion. a sizable deal here. kindercare runs more than 2400 child care centers in the u.s., scott. >> leslie picker, thank you very much for that. let's send it to pippa stevens for a look at the biggest names moving into the close.

>> palo alto networks is leading the s&p higher after a reiterated buy rating and raised the target. that is the highest on the street. bnp also initiated coverage on the stock today. and docusign is rising as it gets said to raise the midcap 400 index. it will be replacing ndu resources effective prior to the opening bell this friday. shares of docusign at their highest level since february of 2023. >> pippa, thank you. we're just getting started here. coming up next, avery sheffield is back with her market playbook. she'll join me after the break. you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc.

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stocks are ebounding from yesterday's losses. the nasdaq leading the charge today. semis like nvidia and broadcom, seeing nice gains. my next guest says the market looks to be overbought and might not have much room for error from here. joining me, avery sheffield. welcome back. you're not as bullish as some of the others who have been on the program before you today. >> i know, i'm not. i'm not. i mean, the market is expensive. 21 1/2 times s&p. 28 times the nasdaq. up cyclicly adjusted, 35 times. it's actually almost the second highest, it's been back to thurly to late 1800s. you have put call ratios expressing extreme bullishness. this is a market where people are excited as your previous guest, who i greatly respect, demonstrate. people are excited, and when everyone is on one side, i always wonder, is this really as good -- is it really going to be able to go further from here.

>> you really feel like everybody is sort of now on one side of the boat? >> it feels like it, valuations would suggest that, sentiment would suggest that, call ratios would suggest that. i feel very much like a lone more cautious investor at the moment. >> i mean, there are reasons to be bullish, no? that's what they say. fed is cutting. the economy is much stronger at this point than people thought it would be. and we're just at the first stop on the train tracks of these cuts. >> right. the question is, what's priced in? so if we look back at, go back to where the market bottomed. the market bottomed at the end of october 2022. we were worried about the economy getting worse and the fed having to cut at some point. we had infrastructure spending ahead. we had onshoring spending ahead, ai excitement ahead of us. the market was at 15 times then. here we are, two years later,

ma market's at 21.5 times and ai spending has already massively taken off. going to continue. >> it's not over. >> it's not over, but is it accelerating from here? >> spending? >> spending accelerating. growing at a faster pace than it's grown so far? i'm not sure it's going to grow at a faster pace. there are going to be a lot of dollars but is it going to grow at a faster pace than it's grown? i don't know. will we see infrastructure spending grow at an accelerating here versus the last couple years? from what i'm seeing it looks to be more stable. and then for in terms of fed rate cuts, yes, we are here with rate cuts, which should be stimulatory, the only reason it's taken this long is because the economy has been better. >> for good reasons. >> for good reasons. we had the economy or sorry the market front run those rate cuts. so you look at many industrial stocks, you look at stocks in the housing sector, stocks in

trucking. they're trading at near all-time highs on potentially depressed earnings. with the expectation rate cuts justify the valuations. when you get the rate cuts, how much upside is there to the stocks from there? >> you think a lot of it is just in the market. what areas of the market do you like? because when you sat down and said you're kind of uncomfortably the bear out of the group thus far on the show, it's not like i don't like anything, but what do you like? >> yes. well, we tend to have more of a barbell approach to our portfolio where you have the steady compounding ballast positions. reasonably priced, not as cyclical, and then cyclical opportunities. so on the kind of more ballast side, we continue to like the telecommunications companies. i don't think many people are aware that actually you have had two of the major wireless carriers in the u.s., their stock is up around 30% this year. like, massively up from the market, but they're still quite

cheap. >> they did underperform prior to that, didn't they? >> but the whole point is what has been the opportunity for this year and what's the opportunity from here. and i think people are really underappreciating how this industry has become more consolidated. family plans are creating a stickiness factor where they're not having to spend as much to keep you. churn is coming down. and also, each of them has a secular growth story, whether it's fixed wireless or fiber that has a hard roi to build out over time. very slow growth, which is way too cheap. solid, steady businesses. if rates are coming down, where can you get a 7% return to shareholders every year? we like that. we also like areas in cyclicals. so we're more cautious on c cyclicals that we feel like are pricey in a lot of fed cuts but there are still areas that are very cheap. so two areas i'll talk about, one is airlines. you have major -- the major u.s. airlines which by the way are

levered a little more to the higher end consumer, the business consumer, trading at five times, seven times earnings. while you have the low-cost carriers pulling back on capacity. we're already seeing an impact on that and improved air fares. you have supply constraint. if the economy is just okay, those stocks are way too cheap. before covid, they traded at low double digit multiples. there's very meaningful potential upside there. then you have areas like i would say steel. everyone is very negative on steel. but how can you be negative on steel and positive on industrials? on infrastructure spending, on trucking that's going to carry around all this steel? something doesn't add up because the steel industry is meaningfully more consolidated than in the past. there are only four major steel operators. and we're going probably, we're in kind of a lull because the pmi is so weak, but if fed cuts

are going to stimulate the economy, i don't see how steel demand doesn't improve. and you have a consolidated industry that's going to manage supply, valuation is very cheap there. >> good having you back. avery sheffield. up next, several big tech stocks getting hit with wnad ts ek.dogreshiwe the seconder still outperforming in today's session which is while we'll discuss with jason snipe right after the break. (man) these men of means with their silver spoons. what will become of them when they discover robinhood gold allows others to earn their very liberal rates on idle cash. they would descend into chaos. when it comes to investing, we live in uncertain times. some assets can evaporate at the click of a button. others can deflate with a single policy change.

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tech leading the way despite a number of mega cap downgrades this week and big investor outflows from the sector. is this the start of the mag seven regaining market leadership? let's ask contributor jason snipe of odyssey capital advisers. what do you make of this trade? it is having a nice day. we can hit that first before talking about the downgrades? >> yeah, i think, scott, obviously it slows down. that trade has slowed down over the last quarter, but what i will say, i think it's a combination of two things. one, earnings estimates for the other sectors, the 493, if you will, have improved. i think that's part of the story. the other part is listen, when we talk about 40% of operating cash flow is being spent on ai capex, those are significant numbers and that question is

resurfacing again, when are those dollars actually going to be monetized? that's what the market is focusing on. hence, that's why we have seen some of the downgrades as of late. i think there's continued upside across the sector. i don't think it's the whole band, but i think there's a few select names that will continue to do well. >> defenders of the space say yeah, i hear you. we need to see some return on the investment and the dollars are going up by large amounts. the flip side of that is where else in this market are you going to get the kind of growth that mega cap stocks continue to deliver and that you can bank on? the fundamentals continue to back the idea of money going towards the space. >> i couldn't agree with you more, scott. i mean, from a profit margin perspective, i mean, the mag seven profit margin is a little over 23%. the 493, all the other sectors a little over 8.5%. there's a reason why money and capital continues to flow into

tech and software and some of these names that continue to show earnings strength. so i'm not surprised at all by that. and again, i think a little bit has been the story of we have seen some earnings revisions go upwards and other areas of the market, maybe it's a little consolidation, a little slowdown, we're taking a breather from a tech perspective and looking at other sectors. again, i think muscle memory will come back and these names will continue to move higher. >> what do you make of this nvidia move? what's it about over the last couple days? >> yeah, lyon, i think we heard from jen-hsun a little over a week ago, i thought it was a great interview on cnbc, talking about endless demand for the blackwell chip. so when you hear ceos talkin this manner about this is the bellwether, this is exactly -- this is what they mass produce and there's endless demand for their product. it's just another catalyst for the stock. we're just being reminded of

what's going on between the lines at nvidia. so for me, that's part of the jump that we have seen over the last few days. and again, i think it continues. i think they will jump over the bar from an earnings perspective. we'll hear from them late in the earnings season as we always do, but i think it was just a little reminder of what's going on at the company. >> are you worried about what's happening with zam? it's been down eight of nine days. we got downgrade said this week as well. not that people are negative on the long term. these are more tactical calls. >> yeah. well, i think part of it is, you know, we heard from their retail business appears to be struggling a little bit. again, it's 62% of the business. we talk a lot about aws, which had a great quarter. we saw real acceleration, up 19% year over year. when you're thinking about third party sellers and think about walmart as an example which

fulfillment is 15% cheaper for third party sellers to sell on their marketplace. that might force amazon's hand in that respect and potentially lower expenses. but when i think about all the levers that amazon has, whether it be aws, obviously the cloud business, whether it's advertising which was up 20% year over year and their subscription business that continues to grow with prime. there's a lot of areas to make up the gap if there is some competition in the retail side. so i like what jassy has and his plan going forward. i think this stock can continue to move. >> let me ask you about microsoft quickly, too. okay. the company obviously got a lot of credit because of the investment in openai. the stock had a tremendous run as a result of that, and you can make that maybe the line in the sand that started this whole thing in the first place. oppenheimer downgraded microsoft today in part because they think of losses accelerating at openai

that microsoft is going to have to take up. more than they had initially modeled in to how they viewed the stock. so if we credited microsoft and the stock's rise on the way up, how do we think about that issue in and of itself affecting the stock's trajectory from here? >> i mean, it's a great question. i think obviously, it was a $10 billion investment early on. that had to show up on the balance sheet. clearly, we continue to see losses on openai, which often we do see in early stage companies. i think going forward, there's definitely upside there, and i think it goes back to my point earlier when you're talking about, again, capex, microsoft spending $80 billion in capex next year on this whole ai theme. we talk about copilot, again, somewhat disillusioned on how that is going, how production is going, how pricing.

we know what pricing is, but what is the revenue stakes look like? i think that has been somewhat of a concern. again, it's only up 10% year to date. again, when i look at the subscription business and their significant ecosystem, i just think microsoft has a leg up on the others, and i think this is just a short term blip and it will continue to catch steam going into 2025. >> we'll talk to you soon. that's jason snipe joining us once again. >> up next, we track the biggest movers into the close. >> energy stocks falling as hurricane milton approaches florida. what's behind the decline, coming up next. welcome to ameriprise. i'm sam morrison. my brother max recommended you. so, my best friend sophie says you've been a huge help.

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gina has roller derby at 6:00 pm. i'm there. get started investing for as little as $1. talk about easier investing. less than 15 from the close. let's get back to pippa stevens who is watching stocks for us. >> oil prices tumbling more than 4% after china failed to announce additional stimulus measures giving back some of the gains on escalations tensions on the middle east. that's weighing on the entire energy complex, and the biggest laggard by a long shot. the refiners are leading those declines. marathon petroleum and philips 66 lower as milton barreled toward florida. the storm is not expected to affect any infrastructure, but it could cut demand for

petroleum products since people fill up ahead of time and are not driving as much in the aftermath. >> we'll watch that closely. >> still ahead, we'll tell you what's driving the big bounce in robinhood's stock today. we're back on the bell after this break. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. municipal bonds don't usually get the media coverage the stock market does.

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since may. mike, it's all about tech today. the s&p may not get to a new closing high today, but it's going to get close as a result of the move in those names. >> seven points or eight points, something like that. this is a day from out of may or june where you would have nvidia or a couple names take control of the index. right now it's about a 50/50 up versus down day in the new york stock exchange and the nasdaq. it shows you they have rested enough. nvidia's all-time high was back in uni. it's been working sideways and coiling up. i don't think you say okay, this is the new market from here on out through the end of the year but it shows you there's always room for the market to find a way when the big inputs are not being questioned. the fed is easing at whatever pace into a good economy, gdp gets revised to 3.2 or something today. it's all working. i still will say for as much as it's tempting to insist that the market didn't have any payback in the historically tough months

of september and october, august 31st, we closed the s&p is 5650. you're up les than 2% from there. you had to go down 4.5%. there's more downside volatility to absorb. it doesn't mean it's a problem, the trend is still strong, but we're still in october. people seem to be long and hedged. that to me is the predominant mode. that's why vix and the move index are elevated even as people feel like they're involved. >> contessa, tell us about maybe some deals in the casino space. >> we heard attention getting comments from the chairman of hard rock international, jim allen expressed openness to partnerships with commercial gambling operators in florida. that could affect fanduel and draftkings. they tried to gets sports betting passed in that state. the compact went to the seminoles. hard rock got the monopoly.

amy howe just talked to me about trying to open up florida and california and texas for their business. i just asked jim allen about that. he said yeah, i'm open to it. here it is. >> whether it's fanduel or whether it's draftkings, we have actually developed a great relationship with them. frankly have meetings with them yesterday and today. so we do recognize that long term, some type of strategic relationship with some of the brands that really have marquee value could be helpful to both of us. and we are receptive to those conversations. >> by the way, i asked allen how much he's making on sports betting in florida. he played coy. he said look, it's a sovereignination. we're not telling. by theway, florida has more people than new york, which right now brings in the most sports betting revenue. there you're seeing the shares of the macao casinos sliding too on the stimulus new, and it's been a rough day, especially the ones traded in hong kong, down

11%, 12%. >> yeah, a rough day for anything china related today. thank you. kate rooney, what's going on with robinhood? >> so this one has to do with buzz around investor day. fintech analysts point today a firm which had it first investor day last year and that was a major catalyst for the stock. there is muscle memory among the fintech investors. robinhood plans to lay out its long term plans in that, and you may potentially get more product news. that's a big reason for the buzz. mike also mentioned some of the tech moves and an upgrade from piper sandler. that's adding some of the fuel here. they say, despite that interest income headwinds, they see a lot of idiosyncratic near term opportunities. they say that's going to help drive earnings and called out some of the launch dates coming up for index options and futures trading. so up almost 10%. >> yeah, kate, thank you. we're going to watch those shares. we hear the bell ringing.

no record close today, but nonetheless, a nice bounce back for stocks led by mega capps. am vi nvidia up 4%. that's a pretty sizable story, too, whether it's apple or amazon, and then microsoft and all those stocks in the green today. that's it for us. into overtime now with morgan and jon. >> that's the end of regulation. guardian pharmacy services ringing the bell. texas roadhouse doing the honors at the nasdaq. major averages getting some relief today. everything finishing higher. nvidia driving the nasdaq higher. energy, a notable decliner as wti crude had its worst day of the year. that's the scorecard on wall street. welcome to "closing bell" overtime. i'm morgan brennan with jon fortt. >> coming up, former tesla board member breaks down gm's electric vehicle road map o