state-by-state battle. they're winning. new york, a great take rate. all the states that have legalized sports betting, great take rate. it's what's the next catalyst. and there's fantastic reporting. she covers draftkings. i think it's a hold here for me. >> all right. thank you. victoria green, "three stock lunch." >> thank you for watching "power lunch." >> "closing bell" starts right now. welcome to "closing bell," i'm scott wapner. this hour begins with the bull market and whether a significant move higher is in the cards. we'll ask our experts over this final stretch. in the meantime, the scorecard with 60 minutes to go looks like this -- bit of a breather at least for the s&p and nasdaq. the russell, though, is the outperforming. has been all day long. nasdaq has been the laggard. russell up 1.5%. what about tesla? its remarkable run continuing. the stock gaining 40% since election day. and bitcoin, 85,000 is the new

number. 86 now actually, it shows you what that has done, as well. the so-called trump trade rolling on. it does take us to the "talk of the tape." what is in store for the record-setting rally? our panel, jpmorgan asset management's gabriela santos, and robin hood's several me to gill. cnbc contributor. everybody at post nine today. gabriela, i'll come to you first. i haven't heard from you since the election seemingly changed everything in this market. how should we view what's taking place and what we think could still happen? >> so we're just putting our pencils down here in our year-ahead outlook and coming into the election, we were calling it out of the policy -- sorry, out of the cyclical storm. so really this idea that before this we had been talking about the economy normalized, rates normalizing, earnings growth normalizing and it being about rebalancing portfolios. now we've tweaked that title to

be out of the cyclical storm and into the policy fog. i do think up until the end of the year markets are going to continue to cheer this removal of the actual election result uncertainty. but then into next year, it's all about the three ses, what's the scope of policy, the sequencing of various policy measures, and of course what's the starting point here in terms of valuations and the economy. >> is it a policy fog, or is there clarity now because we know that former president trump, soon to be president again, wants to re-up the tax cuts, he's going to do everything in his power, he's going to think that's going to stimulate more growth. >> i think there's still quite a lot of questions around the scope and sequencing. what exactly is the scope of these tax cuts? is it just extending the tcja, expiring provisions? that's one scenario. or is it adding on top of that additional corporate and individual tax cuts? and that matters in terms of productions for the deficit,

economic growth, and inflation, and hence, rates, across the curve. there's also this big, big question of tariffs. what exactly is the scope of that versus what's been proposed, and is that something that this new administration starts to implement right away, or is it maybe something that's used as a negotiating chip and, hence, you have more limited impacts on inflation, the dollar, and rates. >> stephanie, what's your view? >> i actually think the market will continue to rally. we're right at the door of what i thought was a 20% probability of getting to 6,000 on the s&p. right now, though, you know, i think we could get to 6,300 over the next three to six months. but i'm actually more positive on mid caps rather than large caps. mostly because slightly better valuations, not as risky from a higher interest rate environment that you could see in small caps. so you know, yes, there is a policy issue may be coming. but i think the biggest thing

i'm watching for that is the direction of interest rates. that could really show down the economy. >> how much of the goal posts moved in the last five days or so? hasn't even been a week since, you know, we've -- we knew the results. have the goalposts moved that significantly? because the market is clearly placing its bet that the answer to that question is yes. >> yeah. i mean, if everything is a distribution of outcomes, distribution got shifted to the more bullish side with the biggest difference in my mind being the spectrum more m&a. and you saw the m&a firms have a huge day wednesday and beyond, continuing -- >> continuing. >> the financials are the strongest group today. it's the banks, it's pe firms, all the ones when play into the wheelhouse of what you're talking about. >> we were selling kkr on day one. that's -- we saw law firms and management teams and companies as you know, and they're super busy. these people are planning on having a good thanksgiving, you

know, in terms of like wasting time. people are very busy trying to figure out can they close deals, there's a lot in the pipeline. so that's a little bit of a -- maybe frosting on the cake of the bull case that maybe wasn't in the bull case a week or two ago. i think once you see some mid caps get taken and small caps, it brings up the valuation for stuff in the same industry. that's kind of how you get a bit of a more bullish scenario. what we wrote in our notes sunday is do you sell the inauguration? everyone's universally bullish now to the end of the year, and at some point maybe you do have to get a little bit of, you know, clarity on what some of the policies are going to be, what it really means for earnings out two, three years. i do think for now the bulls are in charge. >> that's the -- been the thought. you have sort of a free pass, if you will, from election day to inauguration day. and then maybe all bets are off for a little while once we get through the mud of policymaking and all of that stuff which comes with some innuendo and unknown. >> and i do think investors do -- will have a little to chew

on here in terms of policy, in terms of some of these cabinet and advisory appointments and nominations, right? so eyes on who's going to be the treasury secretary, who's going to be at ustr, at commerce, some signs. yes, probably through election day there's a little bit more of a -- less of a focus on the policy. for us, we are still bullish when it comes to the actual equities and corporate credit environment. where i think the outlook particularly changed is on fixed income and fx. we had expected interest rate volatility to come down, now it's likely to remain elevated across the curve. we had expected the dollar to continue to weaken, now it's probably going to stay elevated and volatile versus for equities unless there's truly a massive scope of tariff increases next year, i think that's still an environment it can move higher. >> how do you think your user -- i should say, stephanie, average age 34, is now thinking about the investing horizon moving forward? let's not forget that robin hood

obviously has a younger skewed investor base. so these policies are going to have outsized impacts on certain groups over another, and the runway of their investment horizon, if you will. >> i mean, they've always thought long term. if you look at what they own and invest in, it's been things that don't necessarily work in one given moment or another. but do have some long-term trajectory. electric vehicle names across the board, tesla being the top one, has boned for a long time. -- has been owned for a long time. that's picked up especially around the election. they did -- they tend to take a higher term -- longer term horizon. >> crypto assets? these are kind of the robin hood wheelhouse in some respects. and you guys have new products to -- to be more of a reach-out to that investor. we're talking about stuff like that. maybe more speculative assets,

too. >> i mean, yes and -- i'd say on the margin. they all have core position that's they invest in. they're the things that they know and use every day. apple is practically utility company for this generation. and so they're investing in those, and what they tend to do is sell when things go up quite a bit and then, you know, buy back in when there's a dip. for example, nvidia's perfect stock for that from here and there. and so they do take these long-term views, and i'm not sure the election so much change that's. it's really just reinforced that their positioning was good at least for now. >> you put forth the idea the other day that -- you could have s&p earnings double, i think over the next five years. it wasn't like 20 years from now. >> right. >> it was like the next five years. and that -- the s&p could be at -- what was your number? 10,000. >> 10,000 by 2030. we were on election night, i was getting lathered up. that seemed possible because i think you could get above normal

earnings growth if you get productivity from a.i. deployment. >> and with the -- you know, hoped for from his administration policies that will lead to a higher level of growth, thus you can maybe grow your way out -- you're going to hear a lot about that, right? we're not -- we can redo the tax cuts, and we can maybe cut them even further, we're not so concerned about the deficit because we can grow our way out of trouble so to speak. if you can get nominal gdp up to a level where you can do that, you're probably going to hear a lot about that. does that mean that the market's going to be less concerned with elevated interest rates, particularly on the longer end as we think about what the deficit's going to be and mean? >> two things. one is that goalpost -- you know i don't do rates, i do equities. that goalpost my whole career has moved. i remember ten years ago saying, 3%, ten year, the whole market's screwed.

then it's 3.5 -- like that moves, if the economy's strong, things will be fine. at some point i think people will say you have high net worth individual, 7% on the ten year, i'll move some over. i think we're pretty far short of that. there's five or six things above gdp. a.i. semis, select software, housing and building materials, it's electrification industrials, it's power and utilities, it's health care services, life -- there's a lot of growth areas. i spend a lot of time with investors thinking about how correlated those themes are to make sure they're diversified across them. i think there's lots of things to be optimistic that will grow above gdp. i don't think the politics affect the three and five-year growth rate, the businesses i listed off. >> overall economic growth, though, rising tide lifts most if not all boats. >> yeah. that should be good for equities generally. the only thing i'm worried about, and you see this probably more than i do, a year or two ago there were more cautious cross-asset types when the market was 40% lower.

now they're shifting to be more optimistic. i got to keep an eye on sentiment and the consensus. i think for now the specter of say 425, 440 in sbe earnings in 2030, times that -- closer to base case to me than, you know, smoking peyote. >> what do you think about -- >> why smoking -- >> i don't know. you investigate and let us know. >> robin hood probably has that. no, kidding. >> whoa. >> no comment. >> whoa, whoa. >> no comment. is that a product -- an eft. go ahead. >> i think -- >> gabriela, please, rescue us quick. >> i think when it comes to rates, it's important to think about why would they be moving higher and where to. so in terms of the why, if it is a good mix of higher growth and primarily coming from higher real economic growth, and yields move higher but they kind of settle around where they are 4.3% than no reason for alarm for equities. i think some of the policy that

we're talking about next year and there being a fog is whether that growth mix starts to shift a little bit more toward inflation again and here talking about tariffs primarily. and as a result whether rates move up because inflation break evens are moving higher, maybe the deficit plays into that. then we start to test the 5% ceiling that we had gotten close to in the middle of next year. so to be determined, but unfortunately interest rate volatility still very much front and center next year for longer. >> think that, too? >> i think we're in the fourth soft landing since 1960 because we were -- we saw the fed starting to cut rates because inflation started coming down. i think margins were allowed to compress. if you look back at the last couple of years and even expectations of the future is that capex growth was higher than sales growth in the s&p 500 companies. and when you have something like that, that means there's greater r&d and should be greater growth. in many ways i agree. but i do think interest rates matter, and they will matter at

some point. i think the bottom could come out again if the deficit doesn't get dealt with at some point. i mean, it's $1.8 trillion. >> i think if it's strong growth that's causing the ten-year to back up i think everything can work. if it is the bond, that's a different scenario i would agree with. i think for now, look, you have -- you talked about relatively young 34, i know there's some large private networks where their average financial adviser is 65 and average client is 69. depends on the mix of your client base. if you're 69, you have $20 million, that's 7%, ten year, 6.5, you might move a few million over. any institutional investor i talk to who does equities thinks 5% or they can't get out of bed. i don't think 5% changes it that much for big cross asset guys. i think the market could be fine at 5%, ten-year yield. >> the word 6,000 even as i ask you this question, i mean, how much, adam, do you think -- how much of a ramp do you think we could have between now and the

end of the year? what seems reasonably? there's a target that went up to 6,200. somebody who's been chasing -- it was oppenheimer. they raised it for like the third time. so you've got chasers on both sides. >> yeah. >> you have chasers on the -- you know, sell side. you have chasers, investors are chasing. everybody seems to think that this market's got legs. >> we look back over the last 98 years, we had data since 1926, and we looked at years the market was up strongly, january 1st to october 31st, 20% or more. it's a high hit rate when the market's up that much. continues to do well in november, december. you add on the republican sweep and the specter more bullish scenarios unfolding, empirical evidence says you rally understood 5%-plus during that timeframe. we've already had that 5% in november. so it's hard to tell. it feels like it will be above average this time. 6,300 is a few percent hire. that seems pretty reasonable to me. but i am worried and people i've talked to are more trying to

figure out do we get nasty rotation in january like we had in january '23, if you remember. the best short could had was -- the first day of trading in '23. people trying to figure out do i trim a little in december in case we get a rotation? we'll see. it's earl for people to start doing. that i wouldn't be shocked if we have a different conversation in three weeks. >> are we in a protracted underperformance for mega cap? as long as we're sitting here talking about way above trend growth possibilities, is that the trade that's going to suffer the most? because you're just going to now and make it up elsewhere. whether it's, you know, mid caps, as stephanie likes, or small caps or wherever outside of the mega caps? >> i think the parallel to me is also this time last year, right? we had a really powerful rotation, november, december. there was that catalyst, the fed finally signaling that there was truly the end of the rate hiking campaign. maybe this can be the catalyst. the removal of that election

uncertainty. and from the list of policy items that we've been talking about, if you look much more at the value sector, if you look at mid, small caps, those are ones that benefit much more from the constructive items on the policy agenda when it comes to deregulation or when it comes to at least being insulated from some of those tariff issues down the market cap spectrum. so the -- the outlook for equities hasn't changed as much as we've gotten more conviction that you can continue to see this broadening out. not because economic growth is going to pick up, but because you finally have a catalyst and we're continuing to see earnings for the rest of the market come out of two very bad years for earnings contraction. >> it's easy to sit here when almost everything theoretically has been going up since the election. say, well, i like this, that, this and, that and everything's gone up, so you feel great and look good with the calls, too, that everybody has made. what about -- what don't you like? what's the area now that maybe has changed for the worst? >> well, for me actually, i

think small caps have a lot of expectations already built into them. i made a call in june actually for small caps, and i think now with the rally post election it's starting to lock a little bit like -- look a little bit like a lot of things are built into it, a lot of growth is built into it. for 2025 earnings expectations are 40%. earnings growth expectations. that's why i was preferring mid cap over small cap because i feel like it's the middle child that gets forgotten, but it's actually in a perfect place to be from a valuation perspective but also from an earnings growth perspective. but i also have been very negative on bonds in general. like any duration. i have not liked. >> yeah. how would you answer that? what -- what's like a stay away or watch out for? >> physical retailers. >> still, that hasn't changed? >> i think they're terrible. the estimates won't prove to go up as much as people think. i think the banks, the small ones that don't benefit from m&a and transaction, may be up a

little bit too much, may be a little bit of a -- okay, i'm excited that there's less regulation and the rate environment's better. but i'm playing pretty far above tangible for things. i want exposure to those who benefit from the transactions. i want a morgan stanley or something, but i don't know why i need to own some of these regionals that trade and are up a lot. of the stuff that's ripped you're saying what would i fade. trying to give those. >> which is what you would -- energy for example, what -- it was the worst under trump the first time. >> yeah. >> now there's -- there's always like idiosyncratic things that happen that cause those types of performance. but should we expect something different this time? if so, why? >> i don't know why if we're going to -- if the perception for the current moment is that we're going to be more liberal with supply, it will be bad for pricing and stocks don't act well when prices go down. i don't think you want to be overweight a ton of energy or gas. we have market weight in the s&p which is ea few percent.

we need more clarity on how much supply -- >> hire growth, high -- higher growth, higher demand. >> could be, but there's a high correlation between the change in the oil price and the change in the net income of the energy sector. if people think there's going to be ample supply we'll see what opec and organizations do. >> the dollar -- >> right. stronger dollar than maybe some expected. obviously -- >> bad for the mega caps, too, on average. it hurts them a little bit more. yeah. >> gabriela, how would you handle that question? what don't you like? >> so for me, the biggest change when it comes to this translation of higher rates, stronger dollar, is thinking about non-u.s. equities. and i think before the election there was some moment up and flows going into your more cyclical parts of international markets, specifically here i'm thinking about china and europe. i think at this point the uncertainty around tariffs and around how much really chinese stimulus can offset some of that uncertainty and that actual perhaps implementation to me really changes the outlook

within international to focus again much more on the structural, more insulated stories and here to me it stand out india and japan. >> all right. we will leave it there. stephanie, thank you. gabriela, adam, as well. see you soon. to pippa stevens for the biggest names moving into the close. >> scott, bitcoin topping 87,000 for first time ever as the post-election rally continues with president-elect donald trump and other pro-crypto candidates set to take office. bitcoin has climbed about 29% since the election and has more than doubled this year. and shares of block are up after piper sandler assumed coverage of the stock at overweight with an $83 price target. analysts said they are impressed by the company's margins and expect it to benefit from the continued shift to electronic payments. shares also getting a lift from post-election enthusiasm for payment stocks and block is up 11%. scott? >> all right. thank you. pippa stevens. we're just getting started here. next, driving in the fast lane. tesla shares, as i said at the

top, surging more than 40% in the past week. star analyst dan ives is here. he has a new title, he's going to give us his new views. he thinks tesla's just getting started. he'll make his case next. (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) everyone has goals and dreams. and everyone deserves a way to get there. wherever you're going, getting there starts here. state street invest in your future with dia,

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welcome back. tesla shares popping yet again. continuing to add to the pop election pop. my next guest calling president-elect donald trump's victory a, quote, game changer for the ev maker he's raised his price target to $400 from $300. joining me now, post nine, wedbush's dan ives, now the global head of technology

research, a new title. a fancy new title to go with your jacket. welcome. >> thank you. >> congrats. >> thanks. >> all right. so why is this a game changer beyond the obvious of what people have seen thus far, this -- what is a new and cozy relationship now between president-elect donald trump and elon musk. >> i think it's really -- the autonomous piece. if you look at full self-driving autonomous, i can argue it's the most undervalued a.i. play in the market today. i think autonomous, cyber cab and the timing, i think could get -- the next two to three years. that's important in terms of some parts. the stock, that can add $1 trillion of valuation alone, and you could be looking at 20%, 30% for more than you see today. >> you think over the next 12 to 18 months is reasonable? >> i think it's conservative. potentially if they actually execute on the vision that i see, not just in terms of

autonomous and a.i., but really it's more about that software penetration within -- from an fsd perspective, it changes the whole business model. >> i'm trying to think of -- so they have less than 10% market share in china, correct? >> uh-huh. >> byd's got a third. demand for evs is already slowing globally. so if you have a pick up in tariffs and a more protracted trade war, what does that do to temperatures's prospects in china? >> there's one x variable -- the bet for the ages -- >> pardon the pun. >> the bet for the ages of on trump. he is going to have a significant seat at the table when it comes to the china tariffs, especially the a.i. trade. i fully expect there to be carve-outs relative to tesla and apple when it comes to any sort of tariff back and forth. and i think within china, musk has been that sort of 10%

politician, 90% ceo. china just had a record quarter, if you look back. i think -- i'm not of the belief that china is going to be a huge headwind. i think overall this is a game changer for the story. you know, when you look at -- i think the next -- >> is there any spreading yourself too thin risk? you know what i mean, right? the guy's running like all sorts of stuff. now he's got a foot and a half in -- going to have a foot and a half in the oval office whenever he wants it. >> look, being a strategic adviser for trump, it's going to just put another sort of balancing act for him between spacex, tesla, boring company, and others. but my view is that investors will take that because musk having a strategic view and a strategic i think essentially chair in the white house is significant for a.i., it's for autonomous. but most importantly, the biggest regulatory issue that they've had to navigate from

autonomous respect, that starts to dissipate. that's a key part of the value. i ultimately look at this as unlocking $1 trillion of value in tesla, a.i. and autonomous -- >> simply because of donald trump's win? >> simply because of trump's win because trump's win changes the whole game for musk, for tesla, for autonomous, for fsd. they'll still have issues on states, this is not going to be -- you know, 100% smooth road. but this is a much different stock than it was a week ago with trump in the white house. >> is there any risk whatsoever -- i mean, i know -- i ask you this as kind of devil's advocate, i don't know what the likelihood if any there is. but is there any risk whatsoever of a larger role, bigger than foreseen, within the administration to where he would potentially be a seller of stock? >> sure, so i don't see that musk is going to take a formal cabinet position. we'll call him an a.i. ambassador. he's going to -- he's going to be very strategic i think in

very key aspects, on tech, on tariffs, on a.i. but i don't see any issue from a cabinet perspective selling of stock, and broader from a tech perspective, whether you're an nvidia investor, apple, musk having a say in a.i. and in tariffs when it comes to china, as odd as it seems, there's a comfort in him having that seat at the table versus 202, you know, bureaucrat. >> i mentioned your new title. with that comes a wider scope of a coverage universe, now including nvidia. how do you see the political debate around selling chips in china? is there risk around that now more so than ever because of the relationship that trump's going to have with the chinese? >> yeah. i think it's a bargaining chip. trump, musk, everyone knows there's only one game in town, it's nvidia. godfather of -- this is going to

give more negotiating power in terms of chips into china. and it's going to ultimately play out. you saw the tariffs. i think it's had a contained impact on nvidia. but it continues to be our belief, this is all setting up for a golden age of a.i., not just for nvidia but for broader tech, but it's a bargaining chip as they negotiate with beijing. >> what about speaking of negotiations with beijing, what about for a company like apple? which is trying to embed, you know, all this new technology around a.i., and it wants to sell a lot of these phones within china, they're obviously not -- they're not expected to be that open to just allowing anything to be sold in their country. what kind of risk is there around that if there is some escalation between the two countries? >> and i think no one understands that better than cook in terms of the china sort of dynamics. i continue to believe they get a strategic partner in china

whether it's -- baba, called the a.i. partner for apple when it comes to iphone 16, eventually iphone 17. and i think that's why china is going to be a strength for apple, not a headwind. >> you can't have a carve-out for everything. not every single company is going to have its little carve-out which enables what is an acrimonious relationship between china and the u.s. to just benefit x, y, z company, and this company here. at some point broader -- broader policies in this country are going to impact big businesses. >> no doubt. but musk being involved changes the whole landscape. i think that's something where in tech the reason you haven't seen tech sell off in terms of worries about tariffs, there's a view musk understands in terms of there will be poker moves played, but no poker move was better than ultimately him betting on trump because now we're talking about something that's going to be i think -- >> looks like a royal flush that he had in his hand.

lastly, and then i got to go. nvidia, next week the earnings, right? what do we think about this heading in? >> get the popcorn, get the watch parties ready. this is going to be a jaw-dropper. i think street's still underestimating in terms of where numbers go over the next one, two years. i think this is one, you know, they will battle, but ultimately four trillion market caps on the horizon. >> dan ives, new title and all, comes and shares his views. appreciate it as always. coming up, navigating the post-election pop. citi's head of strategies will break it down and the risks he's watching that could potentiay dl raheal. well would you look at that? jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks, it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon!

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we are back. santos off the highs of the day, though the dow and russell 2000 are riding a post-election high. the dow now on track to close above 44,000. the first time ever. joining me post nine with his post-election playbook is citi head of equity trading strategy stuart kaiser. welcome. good to see you. >> thank you. >> are you as bullish as seemingly everybody else? >> yeah. i mean, we're feeling good about things. there's a lot of things to like. number one is you got this big event out of the way. you know, folks de-risked a little going into the event, lots of premium priced in. that's coming out. if you're going to be cautious, it's the speed of the move you've seen and potential risk may be spilling over from the bond market. >> for how long does this last do we think? what seems reasonable to you? >> i mean, we figured three to five days post election you would need to get the

positioning and the -- it to rebalance, then back to data. what are we getting from u.s. economic growth, what are we getting out of the fed, how do earnings wrap up. it does feel like the end of last week a lot of the positioning got cleaned up. hopefully we're back to quote/unquote normal operations. >> is it reasonable to think now that what certainly felt like to many, you know, too high valuation or at least expensive, now needs to be reset in and of itself? because now we think and we're positioning for a higher level of growth than maybe we expected. thus, valuations will be justified if not expand even further? >> yeah. i think that's really the debate. a lot of people are saying 2025 earnings look maybe a little high. if you -- >> do they now? >> that's the question. do you think you're getting enough of a growth impulse out of the deregulation and the trump policy mix to compensate for what looked like eps that was a little bit high. and i would say, it's hard to say exactly, but i think yeah. people are probably more comfortable with what the earnings number looks like. to your point means valuation perhaps less of a challenge than

it was call it four weeks ago. >> isn't that the baseline bet at this point? all bets were off before, now the baseline bet feels like, you know, the policies that are going to come forward especially if there's a significant enough margin in the house which is still to be, you know, figured out. but it looks -- going to be a red sweep. doesn't that change the game on the way we look at all that? >> yeah. it does change the game in terms of the growth outlook. you know, the other part of it is there are parts of trump's sort of policy platform that markets might not necessarily like. so we're going to have to like, as i say, once up gets the positioning out of the way it gets down to brass tacks. what is the fed doing, what are the actual policies and how do those translate to growth. to your point, we've -- the floor has been raised at minimum, and potentially the ceiling, as well. >> the ceiling when you talk about what's the ceiling in yields? and how much of an issue is that? it we break through the ceiling, then we start to get to an uncomfortable level, is -- where's the problem with that? >> yeah, i think that's exactly

the case. you know, our view is ---en wits are okay with the ten-year yield rise figure that's coming from growth. if that yield starts rising because it's coming from deficit or fiscal or tariff risk, that becomes a very different discussion. we saw a very big rise in long-term yields and term premium going into the election. look, you know, we were joking if you have the ten-year yield at 475 next week the msarket's going to catch attention. it's the speed of the move. what happened last week is you had an initial move higher, ten year 4.5. then when it moved sideways that was a turnstile for riverboat to go on. that's the situation we're in. bonds are closed to which made it easier. >> if you want to hedge against higher yields which you obviously think could be a concern, how would you do it? >> we've been looking like in the equity world like tlt put spreads or something like that. something further out of the money. we were sort of saying let's hedge this if yield get above 5% on tlt as a yield equivalent. that's one way. you could play around with

sector winnings, as well. our view is run long core equity, have that if you're concerned, that's the quick and easy way to do it. >> you see the russell 2000, if you want to run long equities, is it time to really run long with small caps finally? go deep? >> hopefully yes. it's funny because people have been wanting to play this broadening trade for six or nine months. over the summer it caught a bid on the inflation data and broadening out of earnings. it does feel like there's more of a runway there particularly because financials and energy are a big part of small cap. i would say the thing clients seem most interested in is yes owning small cap but owning the high-quality small cap. people are hesitant to go way down the cap structure. profitable small cap is an interesting place to live. >> do you like profitable small cap over, say, larger cap which may be more in the cross hairs of a more serious trade war again for example?

>> yeah, i think -- it's a sneaky benefit of small cap is it's domestic -- >> that's what i'm thinking. >> exactly. i think financials, as well. financials is cyclical, but domestically facing. i think people do want to be in that domestically facing cyclical place as long as that recession risk doesn't pop up. >> the problem is for, as you said, the regional banks, you're more susceptible to paying from higher rates. >> yeah. >> what benefits you on one side of the trade kills you on the other. >> i mean, look, if it was easy, everybody'd be doing it. these are the tradeoffs. over the summer, it was the same tradeoff. i want to be in small cap but growth started to slow. you think, geez, could i be in small cap if economic growth is -- now the opposite, i want to be in small cap but worry if rates are rising. it gets back to the why. if rates are rising for growth reasons you want to be in small cap. if the tariff thing gets raised -- in our view you to be careful. >> how are you thinking about

nontraditional assets? i know you're head of equity trading strategy. bitcoin is going crazy. you're going to have more interest. and you're going to have a wider investor pool which now believes that there's something there from somebody that people are already calling the -- the bitcoin president, for example. >> yeah, we don't look at bitcoin specifically. but i would put bitcoin into the same category as gold or other kind of rich sentiment trades. you're not owning bitcoin unless you're convinced that the economic growth backdrop is pretty decent or that the policy backdrop is super supportive. you are all just talking about tesla before. i know bitcoin's different from tesla, but these are also trades that you have to have confidence in the policy platform being there behind you, i think to be in. there that's where we are now. it's not something i step in front of, put it that way. >> we'll leave it that way. appreciate your time. thank you. next, we track the biggest movers into this close. pippa stevens with more. >> reporter: a health care merger is no more, and that is

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less than 15 from the closing bell. back to steve staef f-- pippa stevens. cigna is jumping after saying it will not pursue a merger are rival humana but said it remains committed to its established m&a criteria only pursuing acquisition that's are strategically aligned, financially attractive, and have

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welcome back. we're in the closing bell "market zone." mike santoli here to break down the crucial moments of the trading day. plus, kate rogers on why starbucks shares are rallying today. and julia borstin looking at overtime. the rally continues though not in every part of the market. >> no. it continues in a similar fashion come is mostly about rotating toward these perceived, you know, improved growth, cyclical beneficiaries. definitely not been an across-the-board indiscriminate buy even from the beginning. and you know, you could take that as a good or bad. it's obviously the markets being selective and discerning about what's going to work. the other piece is it's not a washed out market where you get one of those massive breath moves that -- breadth moves that creates its self-fulfilling momentum. that's usually when you're coming off a big correction. it is part of the action aside from the cyclicals continuing to

work and the mega capital rerepeating isthis flight from quality. crowded shorts are getting run up. i mentioned earlier -- the meme stuff, anything that seems like it's got just a real leverage to just high spirits and maybe the bulls sort asserting their dominance -- >> up 5%, up 30 something percent in a month. we can get the first close above 4 44,000. we're going to get that. we haven't gotten a close above 6,000. we're a few -- >> we're playing around with the levels. the russell 2000's like seven points from a record high which was set almost exactly three years ago. so you know, that's a long time coming if we do get a breakout. you're going to have people kind of, you know, banging the pots and pans about that. >> i want to acknowledge the fact that the united states marine corps is here on this veterans day. we're surrounded by many service men and women today on what is the 249th birthday of the marine

corps. they're going to be on the podium here at the new york stock exchange for the honors. we salute their service, of course, as i said on this veterans day. kate, where don't you tell us what's going on with starbucks today. >> hi, scott. starbucks shares were up just under 3% today. best performing in the restaurant space. td cowan hosted a chat with the ceo focusing on brian nickles on' back to stux plan. there's -- starbucks plan. in the note andrew charles, analyst wrote, quote, we get the sense that management is moving with a sense of urgency to improve speed of service and broadening marketing or key tenets of chipotle's success during mr. nichols' tenure. reminder, the company did suspend its 2025 guidance due to both ceo change and the business performance. earlier this month starbucks also announced the hiring of new chief brand officer who worked with nichol at both chipotle and

taco bell. they say it should take about two quarters for those marketing efforts to really pay off. scott? >> all right. kate, thank you. on the same day that chipotle gets its formal ceo today, too. plenty of news on your beat. to julia who has some earnings coming up on your beat. >> thank you. >> that's right. going into livenation earnings, shares have gained about 5% since the -- over the past week since the election on expectation that a trump administration will give it a higher chance of settling the lawsuit by the doj. now live nation's revenue is expected to decline 5% and earnings per share to fall more than 10% on some tough comparisons. but 87% of analysts rate lyv a buy citing robust demand for live events. the expectation of more stadium events in 2025 driving ticket volumes, the opportunity to improvemonetization. for iac, analysts develop a 17% decline in revenue and much smaller loss than a year ago of 22 cents per share.

iac's digital ad division, meredith dot dash is expected to benefit from operational improvements and a pretty strong ad market and also to show ongoing challenges at its angie division. meanwhile investors are going to be looking for indications of where iac plans to deploy its cash. we have an exclusive interview with the ceo joey levin coming up in "closing bell overtime." >> good stuff. thank you. less than a minute left. you get a reprieve today on bond yields, bond market closed obviously for veterans day. right about 4:30 on the ten year. we'll see how that progresses. >> no news is good news. i still think that you have a little bit of room, let's say you go toward 4.5. i think now you have the cover story of everything's happening because growth expectations are going higher. you can sort of rationalize away the next little bit of bond yields if you choose. for that matter, that's also distracting people away from the fact that 2025 earnings estimates have been on the decline for a while.

not getting any cheaper. [ inaudible ] [ cheers ] >> we're trying to get the close above 6,000 with the united states marine corps. the dow's going to go out above 44,000 for first time ever. a big day in what is a big bull market. that bell marks the end of regulation. the united states marine corps ringing the closing bell to honor veterans day. thank you to all who have served. fresh pet doing the honors at the nasdaq and another record day on wall street as the dow closes above 44k for the first time. the s&p 500 looks like it might close above 6k for the first time. looks like it did. we'll let it settle out. ending the day regardless in uncharted territory. that is the