motherer of tonight's mike tyson jake paul fight. >> this is all anyone is talking about. are you going to watch it? >> i will be out tonight, you know. >> everyone's watching it. i will be watching twitter to see what people think. >> i won't be able to avoid it that's for everybody is watching it and i'll watch twitter to see what people are saying. >> i won't be able to avoid it one way or another, that's for sure thank you for watching. >> we will see you in a little while, john. "closing bell" start right now. >> i'm scott wanpner the future of this rally big earnings loom next week and we will ask our experts what is at stake for the post-election pop for stocks let's look at the scorecard with 60 minutes to go in regulation we have been in the red all day. perhaps powell told the gathering in dallas yesterday, you saw it here live, the fed is

in no hurry to cut the rates the two-year is almost 4.30. our talk of the tape run for stocks and rates and where both might go from here let's welcome in wharton school's jeremy segal. good to see you. welcome back. >> thank you, scott. >> how concerned are you about this backup in rates >> it's not surprising because of the strength of the economy and because of the trump program which i think is negative for rates could be positive for stocks, but not positive necessarily for rates. scott, i'm looking at what the june fed fun futures said' looking at july for that meeting. only two cuts are built in for

including the december meeting so if we are going to have a cut in december, the market is saying only one cut in the next four meetings to get us to the middle of next year. over 100 bases points of cuts have been wiped out of the fed easing process since that september large 50 basis point cut. >> are you good with that? >> that is something -- yeah that is trouble in the market. >> are you good with that? you don't really think they need to overdo it in terms of cutting, right >> yeah. look i think -- i think, you know, the fed has long fund fed rate is 2.9 and that is way too low and i've been saying that a long time i think it's 3.5 and 4 we are 4.58 so we got a ways to go one has to remember if we are going back to normal interest

rate structures, the ten-year, on average, is between 150 and 100 basis point above the funds fed rate if we get to 3.5 to 4 that still says the ten-year is going to 5. if trump enacts every sim tax cut that he wants to, if he puts those tariffs on, then we are talking about potentially higher, so that is a head wind for equities in 2025. >> to what degree? to what degree is it a head wind does it change your whole forecast or temper it slightly what do you think? >> i haven't made a 2025 -- listen >> what are you waiting for? >> there is a lot of very positive things about the -- first of all, the extension. now that the republicans have taken the house, i think there is no question that we are going to get an extension of the 2017 tax cuts and that is very

positive because as we know, the democrats were champing at the bit for raising the corporate tax rate and cutting the capital gains rate none of that has happened. that is very, very positive. less regulation is very, very positive in general, i think we need a lot of mergers of small, mid-sized banks. we need a lighter hand on other mergers, although some ambiguity whether trump is how anti-or pro-merger he is basically, trump is the most pro stock market president in our history and in a sense that he judges his success or failure as a president more by the stock market than anyone that i ever remember or have ever read about, so he is not going to do something purposeful that is going to tank the stock market it doesn't mean there won't be a bear market or he can prevent a

natural, you know, ups and downs of the business cycle. and unintended consequences and geo political events but i'm saying he always keeps one eye on the stock market. that is a very, very positive factor for the stock market but the bond market is concerned about very different things. real growth growing up, that is good for stocks, but actually that means higher interest rates. we still don't know about tariffs. we still don't know, you know, what is going to go on with the deportation and the situation really could rock some major industries i mean, take a look what the vaccine manufacturers today kind of out of left field when no one had predicted that that -- trump victory could tank those stocks. there are still a lot of uncertainties. i think -- listen. we have had two years of 20% gains. that is way above the average. my feeling is that, you know, we

should be satisfied with the 5% to 10% gain in 2025. i think that the higher interest rates and optimistic earning estimates on some of the firms, we are talking about 12 to 13% increase for 2025 when they start hitting reality that we won't have another 20% in 2025. >> you think there is just too much ambiguity right now on exactly what the new president is going to get done, how quickly? and then you juxtapose that, i suppose, against the prospect of higher rates i mean, at what point do you feel you've got enough clarity to make what you feel is like a well-educated view on what you think stocks can do next year? >> well, we did -- i think, as i said, i think, at minimum, the 2017 tax cuts can be extended.

now there are other tax cuts, a lot of them that trump has promised they are going to be much harder but the market is, i think, sighing a relief, again, as i said earlier, looks like the corporate tax rate snoting going to go -- is not going to go up and capital gain taxes won't go up that uncertainty has certainly been resolved. however, the uncertainty concerning tariffs and the pentagon effects how hard they go on deportation and how that affects certain industries, quite a bit. agricultural industries, construction industries, as we know, housing industries, which are already going to be challenged by higher interest rates. i don't think the 30-mortgage rate is going down in 2025 at all. so there are still some outstanding certainty. we got some certainty. thank goodness we got a process that everyone agrees that trump is a winner. we don't have that problem

we have the tax cuts to be extended but that certainly doesn't clarify everything and i think that trump will have to act on clarifying everything in the next two or three months. >> i appreciate your perspective, professor stay with me let's broaden the conversation with more guests stephanie link of high tower alley -- ali phillips >> the professor said good things even with this 2024 has been an incredible year because you had the soft economic landing and lower interest rates and really solid earnings in technology and other secretaries. first, we really should pause on that the other thing is history has our back if you look at presidential time between inauguration days and presidential elections, the last 50 years, only two times when the market has been down and that was 2000 and 2008 and you

were already in a recession and severe bull market. >> how much do you think we have pulled forward because the burst was so sudden and big? it's cooled off, obviously, this week but we did have a pretty large pop off of the result of the election. >> we did but to us it's more of a relief rally and not a endorsement of the new administration's policies but you had a fair election and certainty from that pull we think the pull-back is normal this week. the key thing more than anything is picking your spots and finding great opportunities going forward where you have trends that are not based purely on an administration and enter long-term trends and good companies. >> what do you make of those points of view >> i agree with a lot of it. i think the market is digesting what the trump administration and what does it mean for growth and inflation. now you have a fed that is probably going to be much slower in terms of rate cuts. here we go again, right?

i can't believe we didn't learn our lesson back this past year when we started in january, everyone was thinking seven cuts we have to digest that that all being said, we are still up 2% in november, both the nasdaq and the s&p 500, so you're still having a pretty good month i think that there is a big misinterpretation in terms of the inflation data and i think, yeah, the core cpi and ppi in the 3s is not great but because we are growing faster and i will take faster growth and a little bit more inflation from an investment point of view any day versus the reverse, because that gives companies pricing power and it also helps the margin story and if you have a mid single digit revenue growth in a 2% gdp world and margin expansion you can get to so% earnings proceed for this year and next year. i think we have to settle down and realize we are growing faster we have a little bit more inflation. maybe the neutral rate is at

4.5% we can live with it because, by the way, we have a consumer that just won't quit. those retail sales numbers this morning, if you think about it on a year over year basis and running up 4. %. im services number about a month ago near 60. this is really a good time for the consumer even in the face of higher inflation you want to pick your spots for sure i love that we are seeing the broadening out the russell 1000 growth is down 2% today and the russell value only down four basis point so you're seeing an expansion in participation and i like that. >> what do you think of that, professor? you have a little more inflation but you get a t more growth. some would take issue the neutral rate is at 4.5 and may

be 50 bit heavy but neither here nor there. what about the idea we can tolerate higher rates if it's for the right reason >> well, i agree with stephanie 100% about stocks. stronger real growth is great for stocks but is it great for bonds? no long-term bonds, if stronger real growth brings higher interest rates and good for stocks and the economy, right? with you not good for the bondholders. so everyone who is telling me, my goodness, in september, we are going to have mortgage rates back down at 4.5%, not for long-term mortgages. you got an adjustable rate mortgage and that will still go down a little bit but most americans don't want that. extreme bullishness that we had seen about, you know, housing

because of the fed lowering rates, i don't think that that is looking so favorably now. >> all right. >> also, i think everyone knows how much construction is done by immigrants, legal and illegal immigrants how is that going to cess out? you talk to people in the real estate industry, they say we need some clarity on that particular issue there and housing is an important industry tariffs, any clarity on the immigrants, we need ity on a number of factors and got it on some that is very good, but there is still other questions that we have to answer. >> ali, do we end up in a competitive environment cash versus stocks and say the professor is right and you don't want to hold bonds if rates continue to back up and they remain higher for longer what about the idea?

high rates will be good once again to catch for some but, then again, if you have the prospects of a faster growing economy, you still may get some cuts you'll probably get cuts, that is the baseline. earnings are going to live up. stocks can do pretty well. >> it can. one thing, also, you want to have balance so you want to have the stocks we know is a great inflation hedge over time. that is really you create real values in terms of owning high quality stocks we can go into the housing sector which the professor just talked about it is good to have some bonds but i don't want people lulled into a 4%. that is not a competitive rate over time. going in to some stocks. the housing sector it is one of those cases where we are at a 40-year low in terms of turnover equity in houses has nearly doubled since 2019 and we should be able to tap that and upgrade that important asset to us is critical and something like home depot would do very well in that and sherwin williams, think

about paint. high value to upgrade your home and opportunities we see on the equities side. >> that is your space this year, steph? wasn't it one of your top ideas? >> yeah. home depot it's one of my largest positions as well. can you imagine when we have a favorable rate environment and mortgage rates do come down hopefully eventually below 6% with the pent-up demand is going to look like in the meantime, home depot is doing an amazing job in terms of profitability and improving their same store sales they made an acquisition, srs and increasing their pro mix, that is good i think the valuation is the only thing that is a little stretched but if you believe in a recovery in housing, that means your earnings are depressed. so i think that this is a great story and i expect next week, i think lowes is going to be just fine as well i think right now you want to own the improvement companies over the builders. the builders have had a great couple of years, but i still look to buy weakness in a dr

horton for sure. >> professor, pretty ugly day for megacap stocks and we spin the conversation forward what is happening next video how do you look at what you this i they have to deliver i don't need numbers but in terms of the degree of which they need to be to make those stocks look like the place you really need to be? >> we know when you sell 35 times earnings or more there is no room for error. even matching expectations is not enough they have been bringing home the bacon. they have been beating them. i think the ai store is still intact but, again, there is very little room for error and they are affected by long-term interest rates as they are long-term assets these megacap stocks even though i think that -- is

not going down they will go down and money funds willing going down to the low 3s next year and paying stocks a lot of them are 3 1/2, 4%, well covered with inflation protection and growth possibilities. we know how many trillions of dollars are, you know, on the sidelines in those money funds so there is still gun powder there, i think, to propel the stocks forward but i think head winds with the uncertainty and higher long-term rates we have to navigate through. >> steph, a new position for you this week was rockwell automation why? >> yeah. so, you know, i've been on the reshoring theme for over two years now. i think it's a trillion dollar opportunity. most of the stocks i own that you know i own are up 50% year-to-date and had a lot of good run reflecting this new

news rockwell is done with a really strong management team new cfo was a proven track record in terms of margin expansion and product innovation their end markets are bottoming and they are taking costs out. they have very conservative guidance and easy comps. ahead it wasn't reflected in the valuation just yet. >> ali, gop one's. given the degree of uncertainty that exists around health care policy in this country, some would, you know, suggest that ante was up, if you will, with the expected nomination of rfk jr you still like those stocks? they are on your list. >> we like them. obesity is still a global issue and globally people want to address it it's tied so many other severe health issues and these are finally drugs that are able to battle those things. both eli lilly and -- have first

advantage in their business. the likely buy the drugs competing with them and one of those cases they have a better return on investment because they don't have to build out marketing structure and they already have that. particularly with this most recent correction, we like these companies. >> even with what may be a changing political calculus? you factor that in in the way you're thinking about these stocks at all? some are suggesting maybe the goalposts are moving as we speak as it relates to not only these kinds of stocks but the vaccine makers, et cetera. >> to us, it's always a great reminder these companies are run by smart management teams that can pivot as we have new policies come to fruition. you look at the long-term trends you find companies are trying to target to that the key thing they are creating great value over the next couple of decades. >> we will leave it there. ali, thank you steph, thank you professor, when you have your outlook for 2025, you give it to us first that is the deal.

>> i will be there you bet. >> thank you we appreciate you as always. >> a record high forpalan tir will than eligible to join the nasdaq 100% index. they overtook vistr today. bloom energy with the best day on record after announcing a supply green light they are overdating the stock saying the agreement provides proof of concept that the companies products those shares up 59%. we are just getting started. up next, star technician jeff degraaf is back with us to tell us how he is navigating the

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nasdaq leading us lower today. tech the worst s&p sector as the post-election pop pulls back and investors brace for earnings next week. jeff is head of technical research welcome back what is your message here on what you're seeing, let's just say the rally as it stands today? >> the rally as a stands today, scott, thanks for having me, first and foremost a little overbought internally in a trend market, not a momentum market so this move that we have seen, you know, after the election didn't change any of our momentum work that would suggest that, you know, we are kind of in a escape

velocity i think we are in another leg higher but i don't think -- i don't think it's getting away from us. that employees we are going to have consolidations. you want to buy those consolidations as they get oversold or in good support levels i think we are more in a cyclical or tilt versus defensive. i think that is still the right call i will say it's tricky because semiconductors are not really holding up and that is a pretty big cyclical industry group so that is one area that is inconsistent with what we are seeing i'm still bullish and i think we are going to be in a decent spot through the end of the year and probably into the inauguration and then we will reassess how some of these have held up. >> it's been an interesting view how semis have trade versus software you say you want to rotate out of semis broadly can you be more specific why you think that and how broad

>> yeah, it's relative performance for us scott that is where we draw the line we have seen most of the trend conditions in an equal weight relative performance on the semiconductor index for the russell 1000 with the exception of texas instruments and broad com and nvidia that is qualcomm to micro chip to micron, for that matter nvidia is kind of the exception to the rule and that always maeks makes us nervous forget the market but swimming against the tide of its own group, that is usually something that we try to avoid en masse and probably cautious on nvidia than you probably would otherwise expect in the chart. >> is one tied, though, nvidia delivers a blowout quarter, is that enough, in and of itself, to raise all of the other boats?

>> it might be but your previous guest hit something, professor segal hit something important, right? it's priced for pside. so there are high expectations and that is usually a point particularly when you have deterioration in the group that you want to be careful i'm not overly bearish i think it probably trades closer to 120 before we are all said and done. i would say if we get an oversold condition in invade ya it mark the interim bottom or low for the group so that should be kind of exciting for u.s. to see that because they will usual take out the leaders before the group makes some type of low so seeing oversold condition nvidia might be a cleansing process but not that bearish so just keep that in mind i'm not swimming against the tide of the group with one name even if it is a dominant player in a.i. given the expectations where they are today you mentioned software a lot of the software names are improving and look better and we think it makes a lot of sense to reallocate dollars away from

some of these eriorating names. >> what do you see in the retail charts that make you optimistic there? >> well, the good news about the overall market, scott, is that there are a lot of breakouts and a lot of good looking absolute charts i can't say on a relative basis that the retail space is table pounding by any means but at least on an absolute basis it's holding up if you look at the xrt or etf equivalent or even the industry group, we do see that these names are improving, they appear to be trofg out. that is what we hope to see and we would like to see more relative strength here with these names but, obviously, going into the christmas season and starting to get a boost out of these names is helpful and part of the cyclical call we have and i think the charts on an absolute basis look fine. i'm hoping to see a little bit more relative performance between now and year end to provide a better runway for 2025. >> since health care is a popular topic today for a variety of reasons, some

obvious, some maybe not, you are look at biotech you suggest it's oversold. >> it is. >> to the point where it's bullish, you think and how soon >> look. this group has been the vein of our existence for 2024 and call it our top play for 2024 back a year ago the biotechs were working up until about a month ago and then they just gave it up others have not done much. it's been a struggle i would tell you that the three-year performance risk, adjusted performance we see in the group is as bad as we have seen over 45 years and health care is not going away, obviously. i like that setup. but we broke the relative performance of biotech earlier in the week. that to us is a bad sign, not a good sign. you know, i said become a contearian if i saw a better spot but we don't see it yet

i think a lot of concern about the nomination of rfk and see if that sets a type of a low from a sentiment standpoint a lot of concern around that but i don't see it yet in the numbers that we look at which is, you know, we really want to see some type of cleansing or washing out of that group and, unfortunately, until we get that, when we see relative strength breakdowns you're better off to step aside until you see more vigorous activity of people trying to price things to the downside and giving up on the group so we are not quite there, unfortunately. >> do you think the nomination, expected nomination news is the reason for that the way the chart looks like it does today >> i certainly think there is some of that it's come to the fore the last week i think there is something to that it's clearly not the entirety but it's an easy thing for people to get emotional around and make decisions around. big picture stuff that doesn't have a long-term impact so those things are always interesting to us we talked about it before on this show that polt unsernlted

is almost always best to be used early so the more concerned the public is about those things the better you are to be bullish and be on the other side of that i don't think has reached fever pitch yet but that is something we will be watching for as we go forward. >> good weekend. see you soon, jeff. >> thanks, scott. >> up next, tariff talk donangmiti earnings calls as companies prepare for a second trump term the details coming up.

we are back on the bell. the amount of publicly traded companies mentioning tariffs on earnings have geared up. more on that with that developing story is megan. >> we combed through the transcripts to get an issue how much this is becoming for companies and with help from cnbc data team you can see here the number of sapp sapp calls for tariffs came up more than double between the second and third quarters this year more mentions in q3 than all of last year combined executives are talking about different ways of handling the tariffs and shifting production, boosting domestic manufacturing, or rerouting supply chains to minimize their impact but we also found no shortage of companies talking about passing the cost on to consumers through higher prices. this is just a sample of the companies you see here they are all talking about lifting prices

it raises questions about inflation but it also runs counter to what we have heard from the pro-tariff camp the idea that foreign countries will be the ones to pay the price scott? >> megan, thank you for that setup. let's get a closer look now at how those potential tariffs could impact one key importing business, the wine industry. joining me is u.s. wine trade alliance president ben anna. it's friday and people are thinking about this, i suppose you've seen this movie before? >> we have. >> you have 25% tariffs on european food and beverages. does that experience make a difference in how the industry, itself, is preparing to deal with the potential of it again >> i think it really does but i think it's a learning opportunity both for businesses here in the united states but also for the trump administration and the u.s. trade representative they are starting, we believe, to understand that when they put tariffs on products, they need

to ensure that the damage stays in the target export markets overseas and limit damage on products that are particularly dependent upon small businesses in the united states like restaurants. that first round of tariffs which you referenced around the illegal subsidies to airbus devastated the u.s. restaurant industry it's a particularly sensitive and complicated business and we are hopeful the administration understands that the next round of tariffs need to avoid that damage. >> you say it's implicated so let's explain why so because i'm not sure everybody understands just what happens from producer to your glass tonight, wherever you may have it you're a french or italian wine producer, for example, okay? you have an importer who sells to a distributor who sells to a store or a restaurant. it's the importer who pays the tariff and passes it off to the distributor who then passes it off to the customer? do i have that chain correct >> you're exactly right.

effectively this is the wine story problem. no such thing as a dom perignon wine story the u.s. importer -- this is the three-tier system of distribution and those businesses have to sell it to u.s. restaurants and retailers because of this u.s. businesses, mostly small independently owned, make $4.52 for every dollar they send back to france and incredibly different than what they have i contrast it, for instance, let's say french fashion goods a french producer can manufacture it they can import it themselves into the united states and they can set up their own store in dallas or the gallery in houston' take 100% of those revenues back to france. so when the u.s. t.r. is making choices about what products to tariff, they have to begin

understanding which products damaged export markets and which products damage small businesses here at home. >> to solve the problem, i'll have a glass of cab until of the italian red i was going to have but it's no so simple, is it >> absolutely not. the same u.s. distributors, by law, they distribute u.s. domestic producers, so when u.s. wine distributors are damaged by tariff on imported wines, it means they don't have the financial capacity to bring new domestic producers so it actually hurts the sale of u.s. wines. >> does it raise the cost of u.s. produced wines? >> the real problem is they lose access to market and this is why, you know, the a valley is against the tariffs tariffs do damage to hundreds of thousands of small businesses in the u.s. including wine producers. >> we are feeling not to the extent we were before the effects of inflation overall and

supply chains, things like storage facilities, the cost of storing wine importers and distributor store a lot of wine in facilities before they reach the retail or the restaurant level any way. how have you seen costs impacted on those >> supply chain has been a disaster costs everywhere have risen. small businesses around the country have been heavily impacted by inflation and these are the types of things that the trump administration and the u.s. tr has to really consider as they start to implement tariff policies to try to impact discriminatory trade practices overseas they can't do it at the cost of american workers. >> you run a merchant here not far from the stock change, correct? >> that's right. >> you anticipate having to spend a lot of time in d.c. over the next few months making your case >> we do the good news iss small businesses all over the country are starting to tell their story and people in congress, i think, are really interested in hearing

how important these products are to businesses in their own hometowns. >> we will leave it there. i appreciate you coming on with us. >> i appreciate it. >> up next, we track the biggest movers into this friday close. >> one chip stock is getting a big side of dip after outlook came up short. the name to watch is coming up next

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>> we are almost 15 minutes with the closing bell. back with pippa stevens with the stock she is watching. >> alley boba shares are sliding after the china e-commerce posted results and it fell short of expectations amid weak consumer spending in china and shares up about 3% on the year outlook for the current quarter fell short of estimates. the company failed to meet a more optimistic investor bar. >> pippa stevens, thank you. new data showing serious

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we are now in the closing bell market zone mark is here to break down the moments of this trading day and latest moves in pharma today and big ones courtney is looking at retail earnings first to mr. santolli with me. what is your view as we ends this week? >> mostly relative orderly kind of retracement back to some pretty obvious levels for the big indexes. russell 2000 is back where it opened today after the election. s&p 500 has been sitting all day on the pre-election highs from mid october. it's one of those let's see if this is for real within that, it's very rotational you've been talking about the heavy pressure on the familiar

megacap growth and leaders of the nasdaq, you know, one-third of stocks are up today so it's sill this market that is trying to sort potential winners from losers in the cyclical moment. we know treasury yields are pretty close to where we think they might start to press a little harder on stocks. maybe they are not there yet. >> is that what this is about you think more than anything >> i think it's all part of the same mix, yeah look we were pricing out a lot what the fed was thought to be doing in terms of rate cuts and degree and pace it's happening alongside better than expected economic performance and maybe an acceleration to that if the policies come through. not for bad reasons. u.s. dollar up at the top of its two-year two-year range i think this pull-back is probably better than uninterpreted print momentum chase because that was going to start to get unstable based on what some of the speculative parts of the market were doing. >> it felt like it was heading

in that direction. >> a couple of days for sure. >> back up in rates and maybe it took a little bit of the sizzle out which you suggest a good thing. angelica, pharma stocks today are moving, obviously, on discussion about whether rfk jr. is going to be confirmed as hhs secretary. >> exactly, scott. right now, i'm hearing a lot of people saying we need to assume he will be confirmed and go off of that. that is why you're seeing vaccine stocks getting hammered today across the board there is loot-of-a lot of anxiety what this means for the rest of the pharmaceutical industry hhs controls so many different agencies across the board. fda, cdc so people are really concerned about the uncertainty that this brings today, the xpi is down about 5% and speaks to the fact that people don't know what is going to happen next it is early. we have to see exactly what he would do again, if he is confirmed and if he gets that seat. a lot of anxiety here today, scott.

>> okay. anjelica, thank you. courtney, you're watching retail for us earnings coming next week. what do we need to know? >> the core retail sales fell from october to september. many retailers offered early holiday sales in october this year that is in those numbers, too. sales and electronics rose 2.3% month over month and online sales jumped slightly. sales were lower at clothing and furniture and sporting goods stores walmart is looked as a proxy for the broad consumer home depot is better than expected home improvement projects is a similar story and hear from lowe's next week hitting all time highs ahead of its report the urn certainty that executives has fight for months now has alleviated maybe in the early days of the fourth quarter now that the election is over,

it maybe is too soon to tell but we will ask those questions any way. >> we will thank you, court we will talk to you soon mike, nvidia, next week. the trade has not done well. >> it hasn't done well it's been hanging around now really at the levels that were the highs from back in the summer in june what i think is fascinating is if we didn't have an election to kind of preoccupy ourselves and all of the issues, we would be having a much louder debate about a.i. and whether it's hit a wall i know they are trying to play one side or the other. some folks inside the training models had been saying the next generation has not been as a big leap as we expected or the other ones do you have to throw more hardware at it redeem what you've invested and favorable to nvidia i think it's trading off 2026

demand estimates once we get these numbers on wednesday not so much about what the latest quarter reported. as jeff was saying, overall semis is a big liability for this market and the question is the other platforms. you have some of the other, you know, amazons and microsofts had a hard time getting out of their own way. >> what is your take on what has been happening in the bitcoin and crypto space i ask you this as coin base, two-minute warning here. coin base up another 10% today and up 56% in a month and a big portion of that has been since the election. >> robinhood, too. what you can know about this frenzy is that volumes have gone through the roof interest has gone through the roof coin base, whether, in fact, it makes all of the sense in the world and whether the price can hold up here over the coin, itself, that level of activity is beneficial for coin base. i've had a hard time getting a clear answer on, okay, what precisely is likely to change in

the new administration that makes bitcoin headed higher, that means that the industry can flourish even more and mostly what you hear is, well, the line between, you know, fraud and no fraud, or something that is okay with regulators and not okay will move in the industry it doesn't suggest that more products and more uses it just means as a store value and as a hive for just capital to find itself. >> it's one of the ultimate deregulation trades. >> true. >> when you think about that. >> right but less regulation clearing the way to do what right? and if the argument is -- >> we will get to that later. >> that is the point fountain argument is maybe some institutions have had to hold their nose and -- or maybe not get involved because it seemed like the s.e.c. could just kind of wipe it away, then maybe they are back in and they can sustain it. >> all right. >> 90k is an interesting number. >> 91 1/2 as we speak and

another 4% today we go out decidedly negative for the nasdaq which is right now down more than 400 and a loss greater than 2% today and russell 2000 under good pressure, too. backed up yields affecting that trade. everybody, have a good weekend