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welcome to power lunch. i'm tyler matheson. thank you for joining us on this monday, cyber monday. with us for the entire hour, tinkler investments. nancy, good to have you with us. let's start with the markets. the s&p finishing the best month of the year on friday. today, the nasdaq leading the way of nearly 1%. also a record high today. the hits keep coming. >> and the first time since the 90s we have had back-to- back days of 20% for the s&p on the fourth time in the last 100 years. >> looking a little scary up here. >> we will hear from nancy. >> big world news of ai is elon musk asking the world to stop a i kept from becoming a for-profit business and help profit motives will make it better or worse. >> we will see on that. this is one where i need to get

educated because i'm not sure i understand the corporate structure of open ai right now. i'm not sure why it is the way it is and what the applications would be. >> not to delve into this ahead of time but i think what is going on is it is helpful. when you are going to scrape the internet of all of its data, it is helpful to be a research institute. when you are going to make money off of that, you can't be a research institute. >> you have to be for-profit. >> i wonder if that is how we have gotten into this. >> i think that is ight. we saw what happened with social media. there are a lot of responsibilities that go with that. i think it will be interesting. i thought sam allwood would be the biggest loser if trump got elected and it turns out he might be. >> it turns out that in empowers elon musk. golden child. >> was talk about intel. those shares are higher as the ceo retires. effective immediately. the stock lost have of its value this year as other chip stocks have stored and sword. you have been talking about this company even before they

took over. you have been applauding this move. >> it took too long. >> i think boards are acting too quickly picked that is a positive. in this particular case, you have the ceo that came in to do a turnaround. but instead went to d.c., hat in hand, and spent his time doing that instead of innovating. i think i was on your show when i said enough already and we get out much higher levels. it does not matter. it has been dead money for a long time and i think it will continue to be. >> let's dwell on this topic. on this departure and what is next for the chip maker. we have cantor fitzgerald. it is great to have you here. we were talking in stellar terms about nvidia. what does one do with until now ? >> a great question. at the heart of the board's decision, i guesstimate it is

where there was disagreement with the board. and inch there is inherent frustration. i would go back in time and say in late august, when they had the last board meeting and the press release put on september, clearly the board was 100% behind. something has changed imagine in the last three months. i'm not sure. as far as what to do with shares, there is an inherent struggle at intel. clear value on the product side. particularly in the client pc part of the business which if you put 15 times, that is worth $100 billion for that. on the other hand, the foundry business needs a volume from intel to survive. and so today, intel is planning to buy $9 billion of silly can for the client business in 2025. at the same time, they want and need to bring that back to keep intel foundry alive. it is really the chicken and

egg problem. what it speaks to is that there is no easy resolution or solution here. so to the comment earlier, i think it is dead money still. >> this is kind of a two headed company. the foundry business and the intel product business. will it stay that way? >> they have separated as one company but two divisions. i think one of the questions after this announcement this morning is whether they might push forward in a more forceful way of separating the two. i would highlight that money. it requires the intel product maintain the majority ownership of the intel foundry. i don't think clear-cut separation is doable. at least under the current construct of the agreement with the chips act. >> that is super interesting. let me clarify that.

a lot of people are saying that it has to do with the disagreement. maybe the border others wanted to split it up because it is floundering. but you said they can't even split up. >> as of the agreements, they need to maintain majority ownership. you could spend and maintain 80% or something like that. perhaps try to get customers to invest. but they tried that or it was a thought process before and nobody would step up. so again, there are so many different lovers here at play that make it almost impossible to come up with an easy solution . what we know is that the foundry business is losing money. product co. is making money but the product manufacturing, the u.s. needs. and we don't want the world to just rely on tsmc. we want intel to succeed as a

country. it might take more money from washington d.c. to make it work. i'm not sure that is something that is in the cards going forward. but it highlights kind of the tough pickle we are in with intel. >> maybe we should call it the floundering business. nancy, where would you put money if you wanted to be in chips? where would you go? >> that was one of your best lines. i wouldn't go there obviously. we owned broad, and we owned lamb. that has a different set of issues. we owned some nvidia and some texas instruments. i think you want to stay with the clear winners in this environment. let's not forget that xerox actually developed the mouse. but it was microsoft and apple that commercialized it. you have a company that has stopped innovating. cj points out all the right issues which is that they are between a rock and a hard place. i think you want to stay away from that. it takes a long time to turn. >> just turning negative on the session. >> did they? >> started with this pop.

these problems becoming clear. >> to the problem is about relying on someone other than tsmc. i don't know how many billions of dollars you think we can reasonably put into a company. >> i think it is too late. i am a valued investor by trade. you look at these as opportunities. i think this is the one that you want to stay away from. it wasn't just bell swinger but bob swung behind it was a placeholder for two or three years i think and then just a lack of leadership. you can't catch up in this business. >> is your vision does that is a pretty dark vision that you just painted. floundering would do it. do share the view that there is no light at the end of the tunnel here? just more tunnel? >> i think there is potential if they can really mail 18a is a smaller manufacturer and try to grow over time.

that would be kind of a tenure process. i think that is one kind of door that the board of directors could consider. i think the other is trying to get tsnc to run a factory for them in the united states. i'm not sure. i would say categorically today, that is not something that tsmc would want to do strategically. they have always maintained that the leading edge note has to stay in taiwan. they can only do the n plus one externally. perhaps, through the u.s. government, that could change. those are kind of the two decisions i could see. and everything else, i think is really just noise. and so we will see. what the board decides. >> when it gets to the level of national interest, you almost think we need to convene these leaders from those and

bring them together to try to come up with, what would they do? what needs to be done here? it feels like a problem too big for intel if we are deciding that has to exist in this country at this leading edge, nancy. >> this is where i think elon is important to the new administration. because we have congressional participants that don't understand how to regulate social media and it has been with us for decades. i think you need insiders, to your point, that will come in and say, this solution is the one we should pursue. the question is at what cost? the tunnel, if it is a 10 year tunnel, it is a long time. as an investor, i think there are plenty of better places to hang out. >> a tunnel at the end of the light. thank you very much. we appreciate your time. the ceo departure to tell you about this morning, carlos of stellantis is leaving a year

before his retirement date. those shares are falling. let's hear more. >> this is not a huge surprise. we have known for some time that there has been major friction between carlos tavares and the board of stellantis. he sent his resignation affected immediately. you can see why there are so many problems at stellantis. these are just a few of the negative financial highlights under transport in the last year. first of a profit down 48%. u.s. sales down 20%. europe down 12%. and specifically, to the united states, carlos tavares admitted, i was arrogant and saying to keep the production going. keep the prices elevated. they did that in the first half and you know what, it is coming back to really kill them. u.s. sales in the 3rd quarter down 19%. jeep down 6%. what happens now for stellantis as

they try to figure out, first of all, how to get things back on track in terms of sales and stabilizing some of the losses they are incurring in different regions? first and foremost, john elkin who is the chair of stellantis will lead a committee and they essentially will run the company until they named the ceo which is expected in the first half of 2025. we should also point out that the company has announced it is reaffirming its guidance for all of 2024. but remember that they cut the guidance some time ago. the shares down almost 7%. not a huge surprise, guys because these guys have been a mess for some time. and finally, carlos tavares, the only ceo that stellantis has known, has left the company. >> thank you very much. nancy, let's get thoughts on stellantis from you. >> i think what we learned as tesla was very clever in pushing margins down to take share. it was criticized at the time. but they really secured their

place and impacted ford negatively. you have a third tier player in the business, in the car business in general. >> insta lantus? >> yes. >> i think you need to think about or we need to think about as investors, why would you want to own this company when you could own ford gm which has done a good job or elect vehicle maker that is dominating the space. >> stock down 50% this year. what is interesting is that it is a time of massive change. a massive change from the global auto industry. >> we started to see that when the regular carmakers and automakers were chasing the ev's a little too late and losing a tremendous amount of money on each vehicle. in this particular case, it's not that the cars are bad but i don't think they can get the scale and have the strategic direction they need to move forward.

again, i would be looking somewhere else. >> and on tesla, which i have not checked in with you lately, we were on the fence about last time we spoke, that was pre- election. >> we still owned it. i was on the fence about earnings. i did not think earnings were that great. and if you have an opportunity at these levels, it is not a bad time to be trimming it. i think what we know, and i talked about it a years ago after my factory tours, was that this is much more than the ev company. i would argue that it is an afterthought ev company. it is a ai business. it is the mega pack. >> growing at 52%. it would be definitely a good idea to monetize the businesses but i think the company is getting credit for mind share and star power. i went to the we robot event. >> it was short on detail.

although i think i told you that i found my home healthcare plan. >> she could shake a martini and serve it up to you you. >> we will take a break. after this, we will talk about open season on open ai. the firm caught plenty of like after announcing a plan to switch from nonprofit to for- profit status. now elon musk is joining the fight asking a federal court to stop the open ai plans. more questions and answers next.

welcome back. the battle for ai supremacy got a little more contentious. elon musk asking the court to temporarily block open ai from becoming a for-profit entity. a calculated move from elon musk who has his own ai company in the works. and his timing

could not be better. open ai has already caught heat. even the scorecard on this with open ai. for the pivot was some questioning of the company's intentions after claiming for years to have no goals beyond operating as a nonprofit artificial intelligence research firm. but elon musk may prove to be one tough opponent given his role in the upcoming trump administration and connections there. here to help us make sense of all of that is the ceo of xia and the cnbc correspondent and with us, nancy. what is going on here and why is elon musk involved in this? what is his stake and why does he oppose open ai going into a for-profit status? >> it is good to see you. thank you for having me. i think the core challenge we are seeing with the elon musk lawsuit is the fight over the ownership of who actually owns the ip that open ai created

when it wasn't a a nonprofit. it is well-known that elon musk bankrolled a lot of initial investments and developments that he gave, i believe it is $44 million in the first five years as a nonprofit. by lending his name and expertise, he was able to attract a number of industry partners and leading research scientists to come to the organization. i read to the 86 page lawsuit that was filed. in there, he gives examples of, right before he separated from open ai's board of him vehemently denying him wanting it to turn into a for-profit structure simply because, i bankrolled you guys for the first five years. why would i let you go for- profit and then i don't have any ownership stake in what was created. i think his point is that he said he was giving away start up capital free. and so now the open ai has taken all this election will capital it has built and spread those assets across a number of for-profit entities. the question comes into play on who should own it.

should elon musk have some type of controlling stake in the ip developed or not? we are seeing this play out in realtime where he just filed the injunction the other day to try to force the court to stop it, the transitioning. the interesting thing is that the nonprofit structure that open ai has will still exist under the proposed restructuring. but the controlling governing body will turn into what is called a public benefit corporation which will require them to both consider societal harms and profit needs in balance. ironically, it is the same structure elon musk has inside ai and it is the same structure and topic has which is home to another major open ai competitor. the question becomes, is it truly about the intellectual property and who should own it? or is it something petty or is it something being played out? i think we have to see what the court decides. >> do you see it as x sees it basically? it is very deep involved and gnarly.

>> let's look at the timing of what has happened here and what happened friday. asking them to stop being a for- profit company. last week, the wall street journal reported that transiting is about to launch its first consumer product. xai is way behind these other companies. >> that is elon musk's company? >> it is elon musk's company and unless you subscribe to ai on x, you do get access to it. other than that, there is no real way for people like you and me to access it. it sound like that will change soon. it will be a direct competitor coming sooner then later to chatgpt and by the way, xai is being operated like a for-profit company. you can look at it one way and try to kneecap a competitor and say, you guys had this original mission. by the way, i bankrolled much of your original mission and her you are going against that. microsoft gets involved here too. it is not just about abandoning the mission but it is also alleging antitrust processes

between these two companies because microsoft has a huge stake and gets early access to open ai technology on the final bit is that elon musk alleges that open ai is telling investors not to invest in anyone else and that includes xai. there is a huge fundraising race going on as well. >> there is attention here that is not been sold with these models. the business models on the profitability. the potential profitability for sources. if you are a news organization and you can license these organizations, that is why this is so interesting with twitter. they have to get information from somewhere. is one thing if you are open ai and you did at first. your research institute. now that every but he gets the game and you are a for-profit, you have to pay to continue to access all the information. and it has reported to just generate yourself by literally covering the news yourself or what have you. >> i think steve is ight. i think its a kneecap event. because they are so far behind,

and that is open ai, to your point earlier. >> xai, so far behind. >> we will go to xai and a minute and get their point of view. go ahead. >> i think it is a very chaotic time. you have articles being written that google will go out of the source business or search business. but they are arguing that because of ai, the search is. and that we will reinvent ourselves. one thing you have to do is step back and say, what is the motivation? i think the motivation is, slow my competitors. get a little bit of my own back and see what comes out. >> our panel of cynics thanks it is a kneecap thing. what do you say? >> i would argue that it is a potential strategy. and then does the fight over ownership that elon musk bankrolled in the beginning and if they make it into a for-

profit structure, him wanting his fair share. the lawsuit itself does allege that they spread out the ip that was originally owned by the nonprofit entity over what they call a web of companies that are for-profit that both microsoft and sam altman all have a majority stake in. i feel like even if this isn't to harm the competitors or kneecap progress, it won't stop the development of the ai models. it is also to make sure that elon musk has his rightful claim . something else interesting given his position that he is accepting and said the new federal government is the relationship of some of the president's family with open ai. one of the largest investors is jared kushner's brother, joshua kushner and his thrive capital thrive global or something like that. the investment firm which is one of the leading investments in open ai. it will be interesting to see how the arguments being levied in court, where they are alleging open ai and microsoft

violated rico, the federal statute against racketeering, to see how that plays out as a legal argument in court as well as whether or not elon musk's new position within the government and his pack 72 the president, plays a role in shaping this. >> this could be a reality show. >> seriously. >> it is better than a reality show. to be clear, elon musk is not trying to get money back. >> it doesn't sound like it. he wants to stay as a nonprofit which of course would slow down from another exactly. >> all right. xai. good to see you. steve, thank you was well. nancy, you get to stick around. >> still to come, death by 1000 splinters. lumber prices have been spiking in recent months with production stopping in canada. and tariffs under president trump could push prices higher. we will explorthe e repercussions in the market navigator next.

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so are the russell 2000's. >> we have the market navigator. what we see is a selloff in lumber prices. earlier this year, around 20% over the last few months. could this be the beginning of the new bull cycle for the building commodity? let's ask a little, the chief operating officer at sherwood lumber. a guest on the program frequently, kyle, because you are the expert in lumber. let's talk about the volatility we have seen in prices. we had you in the heyday and i say that jokingly because the price of lumber was literally a roller coaster ride over several points over the last few years. what exactly is different or the same about the price action now? >> thank you for having me. it is great to be back. i appreciate all you have done in helping to expand knowledge in the industry. prices today are less than, or more than triple what they were a few years ago. right now, i would say lumber is in a relative phase of stabilization. we talked earlier this year

about a bare market rally which we had just weeks after we last spoke. that pollinated into the peak that we were in the midst of selling off of. 2023 was the supply price correction and 2024 was building the foundation for the next cyclical move. we are not ready to totally confirm the move yet but the question that remains to be scene is, is 2025 the beginning of the next bull cycle? a lot of things are telling us we might be close to that. >> it is nostalgic for you tonight. we had quite the story line for lumbar back in the day. >> 2021, we were up. 2000 and then in the 500's now. there will be people always looking. this is the market navigator looking to make a trade. should they be buyers of lumber or should they think about fading this up?

>> i think there is a lot of confusion in the marketplace today. particularly looking at the broad fund medals in terms of tariffs and what they do to volatility in the market place. many don't know but in lumber, we have been in a tariff situation. this is not new news to us. we have had a tariff quota or an antidumping duty or otherwise since 1982. i think the most recent move this past year, where we saw tariffs double after the lumber agreement expiration, had a lot of people confused. and then in addition to that, many don't realize that they are likely going to double again as we move into 2025. particularly the second half of 2025. and what does that mean we should do? i think what we should do from a technical perspective is recognize what the market makeup is today and particularly who was long and who was short and ultimately say, who should i ride the

coattails and wave of? and for the last 18 months, we saw commodity short over the last year or so only to reverse that position in its entirety and now moving more to a long position. and conversely, the merchant side of the trade was the opposite. they were very long during the down cycle and now very short as we just begin this most recent up cycle. so could we see a short squeeze ahead? we are leaning toward that as particularly we see supply-side challenges with the reduced supply over the last 18 months of roughly 3 billion. >> always good to get your thoughts. we appreciate it. >> it is interesting. when i think about the lumber trade, there is home depot and

lowes. company earnings calls we have listened to and made transcripts for and they talk about the price of lumber being an influence on earnings and everything else that happens. >> there has been more positivity lately as people help you get an inflection point. for the builders, this chart looks like more of a move within a range. not necessarily a big breakout. even being a tariff for 40 years. for anybody who thinks now will be the moment it breaks out, maybe some food for thought. >> i remember the highs we saw during the post- pandemic world. >> i just remember, do you want to lock this up? >> just like copper back in the day. >> thank you. >> tyler over to you. >> as we head to break, let's get a power check on the positive side of the s&p. supermicro up 30%. modest gain there. the company said the independent review found no evidence of misconduct or throughout fraud. on the next slide, texas pacific

rks d we will have more on maetwhen we return.

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welcome back to power lunch. this is your cnbc news update. president elect donald trump promised there would be hell to pay if the release of kmax hostages is not secured by the time he takes office in january. he made the claim this afternoon on his truth social account. they are believed to be more than 100 hostages being held in gaza and up to a third could be dead. the state department today said they want to see a political process to end the civil war and syria. rebel fighters launched an assault in the country last week and made gains in the city of aleppo. syrian and russian jets are retaliating against opposition forces with president bashar al- assad threatening to crush the insurgents. >> the french government is

onset to collapse later this week. far right and left parties exhibited no-confidence motions against the prime minister today after he pushed a budget bill through problem without a vote. if the vote passes, the prime minister's coalition will be the first forced out by a no- confidence vote since 1962. back to you. >> thank you. the nasdaq had a record high in december. but the dow giving back a little after that strong november. a recent rally continues. are we due for a pull back? we have the cio of the u.s. concentrated growth and nancy is still with us. welcome. good to have you with us, jim. my sense is that you think we are due for a pull back but that doesn't mean we will get one. >> i think everything you supposed to the election sort of made sense in terms of the stocks rallying and the expectation of less regulation. business confidence is up substantially. the consumer was incredibly healthy this past weekend based on overnight numbers. it feels like everything is

moving in the right direction. yes, stocks looked expensive relative to their own history but that has never been a great reason to sell or a great reason to have too much concern unless there is a catalyst. and i don't see the catalyst right now. >> what about interest rates, particularly on bonds. not so much the fed funds rate. what about interest rates and whether those higher rates and higher stock prices come toward this? >> as you can see from my gray hair, i have seen more environments. interest rates were 6% and 2000 and then 25 on the s&p 500. that was extended. because of the earnings downturn, you saw what happened to the equity markets. at 420 on the tenure, i don't see things as that extended today. >> i see nancy nodding. >> i would say, never let them see your gray hair. >> i have drawn the analogy as jim just did, to the 90s where we had higher interest rates.

tenure between 5-8%. and about 5% for the entire decade. what we saw was stock price performance that was outstanding until it wasn't but it lasted for a long time. i think we are in the same productivity driven growth environment and i do think it will continue for some time. i agree with jim that we need to see a correction every 12 months. 10% on average, to let everything recalibrate. in general, we think we are in the early days of an 90s bull market equivalent. >> the only thing i worry about is, when the ford because e is the highest it has ever been or when the buffet indicator is at its highest since 1929 or the portion of americans piling in is the highest since the 90s. all these kinds of things are taking place. obviously you have to be in the market. do you do anything tactically in case 2025 is not as good of a year?

>> i think it is a stock picker market. but remember there is 7 trillion in cash on the sidelines. earnings growth came in better- than-expected. average pe multiple on the equally weighted s&p is at 18 times. historically, 17.5 times. i think what do you want to do, and there has been an analysis done of the number of stocks trading at multiple above 50. we are well below 90s levels. i think what do you want to do is on the right stacks. i think jim would probably agree. he thinks he has them in his portfolio and i think i have them in mind. but you want the growers with a great management team. >> what are the right stocks in your portfolio right now, jim ? >> i see what has happened postelection and a lot of companies have been hurt. i think there is an opportunity there. look at constellation brands? i understand that they import beer from mexico and that will be tariff potentially. let's break that apart. will it be a tariff or is it a threat? number one. number two, look at what the

peso has done. it has moved significantly offsetting in advance, any impact of the tariffs. third, the underlying business continues to be on fire. take away is accelerating nicely into this order and we know that from the scanner data. and finally, the capital spending program which peaks this year means the unbelievably increased cash flow the next 2-3 years which allows them to be a self-help story where they can buy their own stock back at 16 times earning. i think that is a great opportunity. look at cooper companies. a similar situation. cooper has a surgical division which has tools for women's are productive help and some for ivf. that is taking the narrative as opposed to the 80% of the business which is the contact lens business. it is a tremendous business. great growth. industry leader. they have the best pricing structure. winning market share and getting unbelievable manufacturing efficiencies out of their plants now which means

margins will go up. we are looking at double digit earnings growth. that is a stock that has virtually done nothing this year. i think there is something very attractive particularly with the dislocation. >> thank you very much. we appreciate your time. >> you can join the cnbc financial advisor summit december 10th and hear more opinions like this. industry experts will talk about trends, risks and strategies to better serve clients. tan the qr code to register or goo cnbc .com. we will be right back! (♪♪) everyone has goals and dreams. and everyone deserves a way to get there. wherever you're going, getting there starts here. state street invest in your future with dia, the only etf that tracks the dow. (♪♪)

welcome back to power lunch. a look at stocks. the nasdaq and s&p organ hitting all-time highs. the dow is down by 80. let's get to the bond market which has been notable. rick santelli, we are under 4:20 on the tenure. >> we are. and it is notable. if you go back to the wednesday before thanksgiving, you can see with the two's in the 10's on the same chart come that we lost ground on the friday afterwards and many thought that might be a holiday move. but here we are. you can see on the charts that the two-year is leading us back

upward but yields are lower then they were pre-thanksgiving. we open the chart up on 10 specifically to mid-october, we are hovering near what they closed at friday which is the lowest level in a month and a half. as we look at the data, it is clear why the two year leading rates are higher and not coming down as quickly because the data, especially from a sequential standpoint with the pmi is higher. except for prices paid which was lowered and that is a good thing even though some metrics were below 50. maybe the most important issue is, how do we calibrate with the rates around the globe? here's the tenure versus the eu tenure. any kind of close above the april close of 218 basis points will be the widest in five years and today, we had 219 even though we slipped a bit as

the euros closed. you want to pay attention to the 218, 219 level. why does it matter? capital flow and potential buyers in u.s. treasury in the long data part of the curve may of course be a clue as to what demand may change as the spread differential hits even lighter. tyler, back to you. >> rick santelli, thank you very much on bonds. holidays are here and it is the season of giving. and we have the gift of three favorite stocks next. three stock lunchtime. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even

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they can help you create a retirement-income plan designed to balance growth and guaranteed income. and provide access to specialists who help with estate planning to look out for future generations so you're not just growing and protecting your wealth. you're sharing it. because doors were meant to be opened. great job, everybody! welcome back. time for three stock lunch. nancy taylor is in the house and has three of her top stock picks with us right now. and your consumer discretionary pick is chipotle. explained. >> it stumbled a little bit when brian nichol fled to starbucks thank goodness he did. >> i think i talked to you

about this at the time. it is on the 12 best ideas portfolio. they won't change strategy. they are trying to drive innovation and productivity so they have the new make line product called-which is streamlining. and they have the target of 7000 stores with 4 million and average volume. a lot of that is driven come almost half. currently at two and on the way to four. almost half of that is mobile orders. it fits all the themes and they think the $10 burrito, and i've never had one, is cheaper than the competitors. >> so on mobile orders, i know they are very good at. one of the problems with starbucks is that they had too much input at mobile orders. they had walk in orders. they had all these different orders and it got too complicated. >> it is too complicated. you will see brian nichols

streamline and shore up. just by putting the condiments or the cream on things back out for customers will save a tremendous amount of time. >> let's talk uber. that is your next picked. stock was working so well. the last few weeks has been, i don't want to say broken but why do you like it here? >> another tesla casualty. we have a first-class ceo. they are starting to print free cash flow. so they will buy back shares. we also think the business has plenty of room for growth even still with uber eats and the rideshare business. it has been hit on the strong dollar and slowdowns in rideshare. i think this is a company that you just want to continue to add to. >> your last pick is one that we don't talk about as much. that is oracle. >> we use to all the time.

>> remember when larry ellison missed the clouds so he started taking out adds in the wall street journal. bottom right-hand corner every week. they have the magic. they figured it out. it is scalable. partnerships with microsoft and amazon among others. and i think they may disappoint on earnings. sometimes they do and that is an opportunity. the largest holding in the etf and it is done really well. i think you could make a lot of money in this spot. >> back with you for final thoughts in a moment. stay with us!

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welcome back. let's get final thoughts from our lovely guest host today. i know you shared a lot with us already. going back to the sense that things are almost too good to be true going into 2025. what gives you the confidence throughout the new administration and everything going on that you will think we will have a well tapped, keep the expansion going and the stock market going? >> i think productivity.

that is what we have been hanging our hat on. productivity has the potential to not only drive growth but drive margins. i think that is important when you are a stock investor. and i think deregulation is at the margin and is going to be important just as it was last time at the last trump administration. and i think we get lower corporate tax rates. if you just went from 21%, to 18%, that would add a little under 4% to s&p earnings growth. >> you think they will do that? >> i think they will try. >> it will be hard with constraints around the budget and everything else. it will be expensive. >> it goes back to the rates thing. >> yes except that when you drive incentives, we talked about this last week when i called in, you saw corporate tax receipts after the corporate cuts act went from 200 billion to 400 billion last year. if you provide the right incentives and you provide, the return to expensing. when we were at 100% in the

early years, we saw a lot o next spending. >> how worried are you about tariffs and trade? >> i'm not. we had it last time and we headed in the biden administration and we have still seen consumers prosper except for inflation. >> great to have you with us. >> thank you for being here. >> thank you for watching. >> closing bell starts right now. . >> thank you and welcome to closing bell. scott walker live here from post- nine at the new york stock exchange. another record high for stocks as a year full of milestones begins its final stretch. we will ask experts today where the markets are likely to head in the months ahead. in the meantime, take a look at the score card with 60 minutes to go in regulation. looking a little more green edging toward close. you will see the nasdaq is the standout today. that is good for about 1%. and meta, the outperform her. another update for tesla two.