and "squawk box" starts right now. ♪ good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc we are live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm becky quick along with joe joe kernen andrew ask is off today. you will see the dow indicated up 11 points s&p is flat. the nasdaq off 13. yesterday, we saw the s&p and nasdaq move to new highs the dow was off 120-125 points let's look at treasury yields. the ten-year is sitting just around 4.21. we have breaking news from blackrock. leslie picker has more on that

front. good morning, leslie >> that's right, becky shares of blackrock higher in early trading after announcing plans to acquire hps investment partners turning lower down 6%. hps is the largest private credit firms with $148 billion in the assets. the aim is to work with the existing $3 trillion in public fixed incomes regardless of the public/private label the ex-plosion of private credit sources say ps sought an ipo and blackrock has done several mega deals. hps says blackrock says the fee

payment will jump by 40% and moving to create adjusted earnings per are after the close which is expected in the middle of next year subject to the regulatory approvals the rest deferred for five years. there is also the potential for certain performance metrics to add another $1.5 billion to the purchase price sources close to the deal feel they hit the right macro back drop especially if the m&a materializes >> leslie, the question is the purchase price on that if you are seeing the stocks of the publicly traded competitors up 50% this year, maybe the devil is in the tails with the metrics over the next five years?

>> exactly that is an important aspect of the timing here. if i'm hps, i look at the comparables and say they are up 50%. maybe i should go public there is an appetite for private credit managers hitting this huge tailwind with the industry blackrock given those options did need to pay a decent price for that it is worth noting this is an all stock deal there is a mutual agreement there is potential upside of part of the deal is structured to ensure that there is a talent retention bonus to ensure you don't see a flight of talent as is sometimes feared when you bring two asset managers together kind of an interesting aspect of all of the various trends coming together with regard to public market and private market and fixed income all in one deal here. >> leslie, thank you

in tesla news, ceo elon musk lost his bid to reinstate his 2018 pay package of $56 billion. the delaware judge kathleen mccormick upheld her ruling. the same judge who had the original ruling. a ruling that he individually controlled tesla, yeah, and dictated the terms of his compensation to a board that didn't fairly negotiate. cormick ruled to ratify the pay package did not have a ratifying effect in her view the court to condone the practice of allowing the defeated parties to create new facts for the purpose of the revising judgments musk called the decision wrong he said if not overturned, it

means judges and plaintiff's lawyers run the company rather than shareholders. musk called it corruption. delaware would retain jurisdiction in the pay package fight. i don't know where this finally goes it's the same judge. twice she's dictating in what, you know, in her opinion, how this should go it's kind of bizarre it's a big number, i know. it's horrible. he's a billionaire that's horrible. you remember when it was agreed upon initially. >> there is no way it would ever happen. >> it was performance based. performance was hit. maybe he was -- i don't know obviously he's a smart guy i don't know if you can predict what happened to tesla it is a multiple of every other

auto company market cap combined it's a great story you don't get invited to the ev conference at the white house. it's a big number. people and ceo pay and billionaires and everything we hear from elizabeth warren and the left the board agreed to it this is wrong. this is one judge deciding -- >> it will be appealed again, when the shareholders signed off on this, again, for the second time. >> she says no no, no, no wags her finger. >> you know the craziest part of the whole thing is the lawyers who brought the case on behalf of the one shareholder who was upset about this, the lawyers who brought the case, they asked for $5.4 billion they're still going to get $350

million. she thought that was egregious they still get $356 million. >> did the shareholder, has he sold his share yet is he holding on to it >> i have not looked into that this is one up expect will come back around. don't feel bad for musk. he has other pay days. i'd be furious i know >> think about it. maybe we're facing similar things we don't know. we don't know. we had a lot of promises all bets are off >> i'm feeling okay. i think everything will work out. >> for him or for us >> i think on review, i can't believe this is going to still be held up for him to have this taken away when the shareholders have voted again. >> no, no. this is ridiculous is what it is you know -- >> i wondered why you were feeling it so deeply.

>> you know, if something -- >> it's not fair. >> we've had this situation before with the last guy >> you are talking back to ge? >> talking back to ge. we don't need to air our dirty laundry. >> it will all work out. >> even if i wear the same underwear for a week. more on elon musk. spacex is looking to sell shares as much as $350 billion of valuation. that is according to the bloomberg report saying that could change from insider sellers and buyers a tender offer valued spacex at $210 billion, but multiple reports were considering the share shale of $255 billion. this shows the step up in valuation shows how much the value of the company has grown since the election as well with elon musk very close to donald

trump and with expectations that this could be good things for spacex, too. >> how many launched predicted next year? >> a lot shares of u.s. steel are falling after president trump -- president-elect trump pledged his vow to block the sale on truth social i'm against the ones great powerful u.s. steel being bought by a foreign company through tax incentives and tariffs, he would make u.s. steel strong and great again as president, he would block the deal from happening. he ended by saying buyer beware. the first time trump has spoken about the deal since he won the election last month. i think we -- i don't know, nice bipartisan. >> everybody hated this deal >> misguided >> i would think so.

nippon is looking to invest in the plant. >> democrats and republicans agree on something and they are usually both wrong instead of being right. we have that going for us. president-elect trump said he demands the release of the hostages being held in gaza or hell to pay. this was on a post on truth social trump said the perpetrators would be hit harder than anybody has been hit in the long storied history of the united states 250 people were taken hostage in the october 7th attack 100 remain in gaza with a third already believed to be deceased according to israeli officials you know, it's holding court down in mar-a-lago we know what president biden's doing. there are times it seems he is almost -- he's not president

yet, but he's doing a lot of things almost as if it is january 20th >> heads of state. >> that was fun i.funny. trudeau was there. the trade imbalance is $100 billion. he said i'll put a 25% tariff on that trudeau said that would wreck canada's economy trump said if your economy can't exist without united states being on the losing end of the trading balance, maybe you should become a state. the 51st state of the united states he said you won't be prime minister anymore, but you could be governor. it's not as good a title. >> is that really what he said >> they were all laughing. nervous laughter >> you know, we've always considered canada to be our closest ally >> right. >> 90% of the population lives within 25 or 50 miles of the u.s. border. >> we don't need to add another

really deep blue state >> that's your take away >> that's my take away >> canada is a proud country i'm sure we're going to work things out >> eh? i love canada. the hostages back to that a young man is believed to be hostage. >> six or seven. >> they just released a video of the young man a couple of days ago giving great hope to his family edan alexander is his name the idea they have been there for so long, for a year and three months or two months >> horrible. i don't think people in canada should be mad. >> they will be mad. >> they don't want to join us. they don't want to be the 51st state. it's mutual. i don't want a deep blue state joining and they do not want to join the united states they're proud to be canadian. >> they are. >> good. we agree on that

you are not going to be the 51st state no matter how much they like to. >> i don't think they want to. okay, when we come back, fed officials speaking out about the he can peculiar expectations for the policy meeting. and later, united airline ceo scott kirby will join us on the first on cnbc interview. "squawk box" will be right back. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairddifference.com. the same way, you have... the fearless investor. the type a cpa. the boot strapper. the boot maker. hee-ha. but many do have something in common. we all trust schwab with our wealth. thanks to our award-winning service, low costs and transparent advice, every day, over a million multi-millionaires, trust schwab with more than three trillion dollars of their wealth. ♪♪

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federal reserve governor christopher waller said he anticipates an interest rate cut at this month's meeting. he said he leans toward a cut based on economic data showing inflation is on the downward path to 2% the next read on inflation, the november cpi, is due on december 11th that's one week before the fed's next rate decision in the meantime, new york fed president john williams says it is clear the rates will go down over time. he still sees price pressures above the 2% target. joining us right now on the markets is sylvia jablonski.

sylvia, welcome. let's talk about the markets we'll talk about the fed in a moment let's talk about what we're facing in the last trading month of the year. it's been a great year so far with the s&p 500 up better than 25%. that comes on the back of another great year the year before what are you expecting for 2025? >> good morning, becky you know, we've had a stellar year 27% is a blowout number for the s&p 500. it shows us the economy is strong we have a strong consumer. we have strong manufacturing data jobs are steady. $7 trillion of sidelines to come into the market bodes well for performance. we had this 25% plus number about eight times since the 1950s. i don't think we'll have quite that next year i do think earnings and corporate growth and the president coming in that is a fan of deregulation and tax cuts and things like this can propel

the market forward and have positive gains for a couple of years ahead of us at least >> you also point out there is a lot of cash on the sidelines you think money is going to be working its way into the markets? >> i think it is you know, the 5% rates you can get from the money market funds and cash-like struments will be falling as the rate cuts come down in the next year. when you see 27% on the s&p 500, it is hard to think the best place for your money to be is in cash on the sidelines. equities have been completely robust the market has been broadening there's lots of opportunities whether it is straight s&p 500 or whether it is the quantum plays or whether it is the x-mag trade. bitcoin, crypto. a lot of places to put your money to work that yield more than 5% right now. >> and where would you be looking specifically would you continue with the a.i. play or technology or are you

looking to broaden out >> i like the a.i. trade i think i start to filter into the a.i. electrification and that power trade if you look at companies like visher up over 3%. we need power to make the a.i. a reality. that triggers into quantum some of these mes. ion ionq that is the next step of a.i. which is super computing to process the data quickly that is the place i'm looking. the broadening out from the s&p 500. i love my mag seven. i buy them on the dips broad based exposure, the ex-mags with the names thriving

in the 493 of the s&p 500. >> all of the things are you talking about rant really impacting what the fed does. are you assuming the fed is going to continue on this rate cutting path or do you worry there could be a point where they say forget it we have to hold on because we're worried about inflation again? >> it's a tricky kind of balance, right we want the fed to cut, but we don't want the fed to cut so much because that means we're in trouble and the economy is slowing. i'm perfectly fine with the idea that the fed does another cut or doesn't do another cut and lags into this based on data. corporate earnings are better than expected. the economy is strong. i think we're in a really good spot right now if the head has to kind of have a fire sale cut rates, that's not a great kit indicator. the slow cutting with the strong economic background is the sweet spot for markets and equities. >> we haven't talked about it

this morning, but the french government is facing a vote of no confidence if the prime minister is removed and can't come up with a budget. we are already watching bond yields spike there and borrowing costs go up sharply. do you worry this is a con tagio fact factor or won't have an impact on the united states how are you looking at this as an investor overall? >> as an investor, i look at this acutely as it relates to european markets, european equities i don't think it will impact the u.s. that's a great point to bring up you have the overarching theme of what is going on in the world and over the last couple of years, there have been serious things of what is happening in israel and russia and ukraine and how this plays out over years to come. we have a president that's going to be tough on both of those issues and i think things like that can impact markets because

the u.s. is strong reach and strong arm there in terms of what is happening in france and i think that won't affect markets china is another one we have to keep our eyes on with tariffs. joe said it yesterday with the art of the deal.internally, for do you have anything specifically you are looking at for the last trading month of the year amazon on ecommerce. that is something you focus on for the month of december? >> yeah, i have amazon for ecommerce. i have been scooping up the quantum stocks they have been flying. i have been looking at crypto. it is touching the $100,000 level. micro strategy is my play for that there have been good short-term good buy on the dip opportunities there. overall, i'm a long term investor i hold the stuff like quantum a.i. the things playing out for the

next five to ten years i buy them on ips and hold the forever and ry not to get too cute it's hard to beat the markets. >> sylvia, thank you >> thank you coming up, a closer look at charitable contributions on this giving tuesday later, the founder ever buy now pay later company affirm max levchin will join us in the 8:00 hour "squawk box" will be right back.

at t. rowe price, we help advisors move forward by building agile etfs designed to outperform the index. that's the power of curiosity. better questions can lead to better solutions. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. it is giving tuesday a global effort to increase generosity and charitable giving many have reduced giving as a

result of the economy and financial situation according to the survey from wells fargo. sharon epperson is joining us with more. >> good to see you most americans want to give. 78% say charitable giving is a core value according to the wells fargo survey that finds 29% have given less to charity compared to the year before. 51% of americans feel they don't have enough to give to charity at all with the pressure from the rising cost of living, fewer people are giving. >> every year, year over year, more money is given in our society, but by fewer givers more hours of volunteer are donated, but by fewer volunteers it is not just the amount of money and hours, but about the participation and sense of engagement >> to encourage workers to give, some employers will match gifts

one-to-one or two-to-one they increase the match on giving tuesday people can donate assets including stocks and crypto directly to a charity and avoid tax on capital gains someone 70 1/2 with give a qualified distribution to a charity and avoid paying tax on that money some could receive an income tax contribution they can do that by bunching donations. that is putting gifts to exceed the standard deduction or set up a donor advised fund being strategic about charitable giving and for more on charitiable giving and strategies, sign up for the cnbc newsletter use the qr code on the screen. >> if you front load your

deductions -- your giving, can you deduct that year >> you can if you front load it with the itemized deduction. you can do that. with the donor fund, that's why people want to do that they want to put the money in and get the tax break now and decide where they want to give money over time. >> really? standard deduction what's that capped at now for charitable >> it is not capped for chart giving >> people don't have to item 00. a lot of people stopped giving if you look at the numbers after the 2017 change in the tax code, that was the one thing it's good to have simplified, but the downside is you don't have as many people giving. >> what's the most you can give

now? let's say you have no other deductions >> i think you probably want to give $15,000 or $12,000 or something like that for a married couple to make sure you exceed the standard deduction. >> that's wrong. >> it's a lot of money >> not really. >> depends if you are only giving to get the tax break. >> high earners should be able to give more to charity. that's not smart. >> what is happening is what becky is saying. many high earners are giving to charity. it is a smaller number those people who were giving smaller donations and not getting a tax break may not be doing it people who are not able to -- >> it seems like the unintended consequence of whatever caused that is not good a lot of people would rather if you can take a deduction and it doesn't go to the federal government where we know what happens to the money most of the time you can do it yourself

you find a charity that is 98 cents goes to the actual cause >> that's what you want to do. make sure you are charity navigator. >> versus the government where 2 cents actually goes. sharon, you're smiling at me thank you. when we come back, today's top stories ahead of the opening bell on wall street. we are just a few minutes away from the first on cnbc interview with united airlines ceo scott kirby. as we head to break, let's take a look t yesterday's s&p 500 winners and losers you had the new highs yesterday with super micro computer up 28%. still a n a lot of questions of what is happening with the auditor.

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good morning welcome back to "squawk box" live from the nasdaq market site

in times square. checking the futures this morning. you can see mixed, but not much happening. s&p 500 and nasdaq hit highs yesterday. we have five things to know ahead of the opening bell. first up, tesla ceo elon musk lost his bid to reinstate his 2018 pay package of $56 billion. the delaware judge upheld her ruling from january that voided musk's pay plan. the company is saying it will appeal general motors plans to set its stake in the $2.6 billion electric vehicle battery plant in michigan to its partner lg energy solutions gm expects to recover the investment in the facility about $1 billion. president-elect trump appointed stephens as the ambassador of the uk >> he is replacing jane hartley.

that's ralph's wife. >> we have frequently on the show trump plans to travel to paris to attend the reopening the notre dame it was vastated by the fire in 2019 that visit comes as french lawmakers prepare for a no confidence vote by michel barnier. >> and woody >> not harrellson. >> woody johnson was ambassador. he will be somewhere, i would think, in the administration he was on. >> he was. >> a month or two months ago big trump supporter. i figure -- not saying he wants to leave town. >> maybe to get away for a little bit >> maybe that job's much easier than trying to have the jets. >> and the coach saying we're standing by aaron rodgers as our

quarterback. that's how bad things have gotten. >> weren't they up 21-0 or 21-7? coming up, shares of united airlines taking off over the last couple of months. ceo scott kirby will tell us just how bullish he feels about the company going into the new year he'll join us first on cnbc. that nt.'sex (♪♪) >> announcer: five things to know is sponsored by state street global advisers getting there starts here. (♪♪) everyone has goals and dreams. and everyone deserves a way to get there. wherever you're going, getting there starts here. state street. invest in your future with spy, the world's most traded etf. (♪♪)

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check out the shares of united airlines. up nearly 140% year to date. phil lebeau joins us now with a special guest. good morning, phil >> reporter: hey, joe. scott kirby, ceo of united airlines beautiful a-321 here at the

facility at dulles part of the reason we are here is you are putting $500 million investment in dulles how much does that help you adding capacity? >> part of the reason the stock has done well as joe said is we have been investing from the time of covid to prepare for the future we invested $40 billion out of covid and another here is 14 gates in dulles. we will double the international service with the 14 international gates. getting ahead of the investment curb allowed us to recover >> a lot of people sit there and say i feel like there's congestion newark is the one area we talk about. as much as you are investing in airports, there is a challenge >> the challenge for customers in aviation is getting the air traffic control system back up to full strength

the people at the faa are doing great job from administrator whitaker down. the technology is decades old. >> does that change under the trump administration have you talked with people who said we need to make a greater investment improving the infrastructure 12k3w4 . >> there is agreement on capitol hill that the faa needs the right resources. i'm hopeful we will make progress in the years ahead. there's a long way to go >> your stock is close to an all-time high. as you look at that , this has renewed the question out there can i invest in the airline like united long term or is this -- are we still in the periods of write it up, be prepared for it to come back down. what do you say to people? >> i think this industry is structurally changed out of covid. it turned into a couple of winners.

the gap has widened. the stock is up, but we're trading eight times next year's earnings in a world where we and analysts think we have multiyear run of improving margins than eps. i'll let others decide on the price. from the valuation perspective, it is attractive it does look like we have a long run ahead of earnings. >> we're coming off a thanksgiving, am i correct, sunday was the most profitable single day of sales tickets? >> sunday actually was not just the biggest revenue day, more than 25% higher than the second highest day in our history december is going to be likely the best december in our entire history we have records for. >> how much of that is international growth which you guys have leveraged very effectively especially transatlantic? >> the domestic environment is getting a lot better with the low-cost carriers are forced to trend in the united states the international for us is

leading the way. international demand is very strong more and more people going for longer periods of time and people going on vacation in november and december and southern europe. it really is strong demand. >> you know the european carriers, a number of them, adding transatlantic flights are you concerned that strength is going to run into headwinds here >> there's a decade long capacity constraints in the transatlantic in the wide body market literally, every airline around the world that flies global long call, except united, retired fleets when you downgrade and furlough pilots, it is tough. the problems at boeing and airbus, it will take a decade to reverse. >> we are in front of a new airbus here for you. how do you feel about the fleet in terms of the aircraft you see

coming in and constraints? we know about boeing, but airbus is trying to ramp up production. >> there are challenging in the aircraft and the engines on the airplanes. united ordered enough airplanes and going into the leasing to back fill. our growth is on track we're a little behind where we expected to be that winds up on the supply side not being a terribly bad thing when it is try wide. >> one last question any last concerns with 2025 whether it is corporate or leisure travel >> the unknowns are the unknowns that get us. the demand environment is incredibly strong. you pair that with the demand environment. december is the best december in our history. january looks even better if that's possible. from everything that we can see, demand is really strong unless something unknown happens. >> scott kirby

ceo of united airlines guys, back to you from here in washington >> okay. phil, thank you very much. thanks to scott. breaking news. at&t is holding an investor day today ahead of that gathers which is announcing news it is going to be showing off to the street today they have a multiyear plan with the focus on 5g and fiber growth the company now saying it expects to reach 50 million total locations with fiber by 2029 this is a time for at&t to step back and say we have done what we said we were going to do to get to that 2.5 times leverage they talked about for so long on these issues 2.5 times net debt to ebitda they say they are going to continue to do that. take a look at the stock it is down about 4%. we had been expecting we would

hear something about share buybacks and the company is expecting to give $40 billion to shareholders over the next three years. that would be $20 billion in dividends. staying steady at this annual payouts they have right now of $1.11 per share a year they have about $20 billion in share buybacks in the three years. that's 2025, 2026, 2027. if you look at the numbers, based on some of the and lists based on $22 billion over the three years. the company is also saying it is going to be giving updated guidance they are saying now for their earnings per share for 2024, adjusted eps, they want to tell you what the business is going to look like post directv. that spinoff is expected to close in the middle of 2025. they are now saying 220 to 225 this is before the directv spinoff. that's the high end of the

guidance they have given earlier of 220 to 225. if you exclude directv, about 30 cents a share post tax, they would be looking at adjusted earning per share of 1900 to 195 range. they are giving metrics with adjusted ebitda growth over the next few years the stock ar to date up 30%. they are saying here is what you can expect they do say for ebitda growth, they are looking at 3% or better annually over the next three years. adjusted earnings per share, they are looking at excluding directv. then double digit percentage growth in 2027 free cash flow, that would be up from directv if you were excludeing directv,

they would look at $1 billion in 2025 and $1 billion every year after that for free cash flow totaling $18 billion in 2027 the stock is down by 2.25% it will take time to figure this out. the free cash flow number if you strip out directv is $15 billion. >> the stock was at 13 not that long ago >> it is up 32% year to date >> it is a lot more than that if you go back to 2023. there was a time when, i mean, the dividend came down obviously. stankey, at a swagger. he had to make a lot of harddiv it was maintainable. now in a position to buy back stock which is more flexible

than the company had why are you swaggering you don't have the albatross around your neck when he got out of media, or spun or de-merged a lot of what the company had been doing for years and adding to the properties now someone else is stuck with it i don't know finally happens with warner bros., but if you did a comparison of the two stocks, one -- to get at&t that was gut-wrenching refocus the business completely. >> they have not bought back shares now they are able to do this and they say they will do that while still staying with 2.5 times leverage. >> it was hard for him to unravel. >> quietly working at this >> at the core business. looked more like verizon. >> at the point the company is trying to make today we will see where the stock

trades later with the knee-rk reaction it just turned positive. >> up from 13. >> i think what they are trying to say with these numbers and with this outlook giving to the street is they will continue to invest in the networks and they will be able to do that while giving $40 billion plus back to shareholders over the next three years and maintaining the debt. >> shareholders have to be happy. it's paying off. to tally shifted the business an strategy it's paying -- you see it. right there. >> stock up 2 cents right now. >> i said all those nice things about him and he's not going to be with us >> john stankey is coming on "squawk on the street. at 10:30 a.m. eastern time "squawk box" will be right back. (♪♪) what took you so long?

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coming up, intel's leadership challenge pat gelsinger is out just a couple of years coming in to turn the company around we'll talk about what's wrong with it and whether it can actually be fixed and catch up in the a.i. race "squawk box" will be right back. f . that's the power of curiosity. better questions can lead to better solutions. t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

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it is 7:00 a.m. on the east coast. you are watching "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with

kerngz joe kernen andrew is off today. among our plans, blackrock announcing plans for hps hps is the largest credit firm with $100 billion in assets. the deal comes amid an popularity for private credit with hps's publicly traded comparables. blew owl and ares up by 50% up spacex is in talks to sell insider shares could boost the rocket and satellite company to $350 pl billion. bloomberg reports that was $255 billion previous evaluation just last month it would cement spacex's status as the world's most valuable startup company. gm is pulling out of nearly battery plant in michigan. selling to lg energy solutions

$2.6 billion factory, about the size of 30 football fields was announced in 2022 when gm aimed to produce 1 million electric vehicles by 2025 however, it has pushed that back, that target, because of weaker demand industry wide for fully electric cars. >> to when i wonder >> i don't know. >> they're getting out of the plant completely >> yeah. >> seems like more than a postponement here are the futures, up 30 now on the dow naz deck now let's get to dom chu with a look at this morning's pre-market movers. >> good morning, joe and becky start with shares on honeywell just down maybe a percent or so, now a percent and three quarters after it cut its outlook partnership with jet maker honeywell makes markets that power jets, new propulsion and satellite technology to those aircraft honeywell estimated the agreement could provide $17

billion of revenue that down 1.75%. fedex shares down after that stock downgraded ahead of the earnings report later this morning. they expect a reset in near-term guidance and uncertainty around a spin-off of fedex's freight division we'll finish with a massive move, credo technology company they hiked the ref knew outlook and posted second quarter beat for the earnings they are experiencing greater demand driven by ai developments and deepening customer relationships. those shares up massively 230% to date period along credo technology, one of the names we don't often talk about. massive move pre-market. i'll send it back over to you. >> dom, thank you. intel's post ousted the pat

gelsinger. stocks down more than 60% during his tenure as ceo. it was also removed from the dow. joining us now, paul argente dartmouth tuck school of business professor professor, good to see you do you think this -- a little bit of both -- the company wants someone else leading it into the future, but also looking at the past i guess there was -- i guess at this point you would have to say that it wasn't a great legacy for him they just needed to get rid of him. >> it wasn't he seemed like the right guy at the time, obviously, because he had worked in intel before, if you remember correctly and he came in with some fanfare four years ago and i think everybody thought he was the guy to really turn this company back around. but, after spending $20 billion and getting all the help from the biden administration that you could possibly imagine, going on a spending spree, it just wasn't working. and i think at that point the

board had to remove him to put someone in that can actually get the job done someone younger and more innovative because, for the most part, i think you've had in the last six years you had four different ceos and none of them have been able to do what needs to be done here. >> what needed to be done, in your view, professor i mean, it's easy in hindsight to say, ai should have seen that coming could it -- was intel too entrenched in the past >> yeah. >> as a company for anyone to have done any better >> i don't know. i mean, i think someone more innovative might have seen the ai wave coming and i would say the leadership all three of the last ceos have been more reactive than strategic. and now moving into the competitive space they're going in now will be even more difficult for whoever comes in because, you know, nvidia has such a lead. as you said, they've now replaced them on the dow, which

is a punch in the gut to the company and to the shareholders really >> was it not just a vision, a strategic vision, were there operational issues i can't imagine what goes into designing and manufacturing these incredible, you know, micro processors so it's hard to even -- you know, you want yield you hear about all these things over the years that you can -- it's a lot of ways you can screw up was it operational as well >> i'm sure. and a lot of this, you know, joe, is the market is not patient. and i think eventually intel could probably come through this and be stronger. but it's going to take years for all of this to kick in you know, building new factories, trying to get a lead on that. and then actually being able to compete in the space with nvidia i mean, involves a lot of turning around in the company and trying to get different people on board to get the job

done so, i think they have an uphill battle no matter who gets in there. >> should it be an independent company? will it be >> i mean, that's one of the ideas, right they're being looked at as a takeover prospect. i think that's something that could very well happen but who would want to buy this company right now given the amount of money that they've already spent and the uphill battle that they face. i think it was qualcomm they were talking about, right? >> yeah. >> i don't know. it's going to be a hard battle no matter who gets this job. i think he did the best he could. i think he had the right ideas about trying to pivot and going back to building factories but, it's a slow burn. the market isn't going to put up with that. it's clearly the shareholders who are upset after losing 60%, as you said. more than half just this year alone. >> i mean, it's not going to be known as the solindra of semiconductor world.

but it does seem like another example of where the government just probably should stay out of things like -- i mean, there are basic research that the government can fund in the private sector, obviously. but when it starts picking winners and losers and industrial policy, is this going to be another example of the government just should not be picking winners and losers >> it hasn't had very good track record so far, so i think you're right about that and i think in this case, they must be really upset because, you know, i think they really relied on intel to get the job done and, you know, the billions of dollars they gave them have not produced any value going forward. i think you're right i think for the most part, you know, the government should stay out of what's going on with business unless there are issues that are legal or issues that the government has an interest in in this case, that was not the case it was just bravado, trying to get chips back in the u.s., that kind of thing.

>> i'm worried about you now, professor. you allowed to say that at one of the ivies you may be walking around incognito. the government should stay out of business? >> i think that's pretty much the way most business people would look at it for the most part >> i mean, they even put harvard business school across a river so it doesn't really seep in that cambridge mentality doesn't seep into the business, professor. i think it still does. not you. thank you. >> thank you, joe. >> could they have -- what >> just the most round about way of complimenting >> yeah, yeah. i give a lot of compliments out. i give a lot of compliments out. >> praise by name. >> yes. folks, we have some sad news to tell you about. wall street is remembering a legend long-time cnbc guest art carbon has died ubs's director of floor operation at the nyce was a fixture. known for his colorful daily market commentator titled

cashin's comments. you knew him for his whit, wisdom and if you knew him personally, you knew him for his kindness art cashin was a good man, gentleman, kind man when i was on the floor at the new york stock exchange more than 20 years ago. one of the very first people to take me under his wing, make me feel comfortable and confident there. it was an intimidating place at the time but art cashin had a kind word for everyone, smile for everyone, always had a joke to tell you and made everybody feel special and will be deeply, deeply missed. >> funny comments about scotch and drinking. >> he made his way out on the scene. >> he did. and i think he enjoyed a few as well i never worked at the new york stock exchange i didn't get to know him personally, but he was on the show non-stop. >> yeah. rob just reminded me of this phrase he's marinating ice cubes.

>> that's right. he had a lot of funny expressions like that. he was funny and smart. >> true gentleman. >> and he was good at what he did, too. >> yes >> his commentary on, you know, the market is inscrutable. and if you have a lot of experience -- and of course even with all that experience, he would never say definitively. >> because he knew better. >> nobody knows. >> he did. art cashin will be greatly missed he was 83 years old. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by bard

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capital markets head of u.s. equity strategy. hi, good morning >> hi, good to see you. >> you're in studio. end of 2025, 6,600 on the s&p. we had tom lee in yesterday. he thinks we could do 6,300 before the end of this year. so 300 points on 6,300 for next year, that doesn't excite me you're looking for a year -- one of those 5 or 6% years that the market over time delivers occasionally. >> yeah. look, where we priced everything was right before thanksgiving. so at the time it was about an 11% return. >> total the end of this year and then all of next year. >> right and so look, i think we view these targets as a signaling mechanism. they're a compass, not gps i hope tom is right. everybody would be excited to see 6,300. one of the things we said in our outlook, we think we have to have a breather, 5 to 10% draw down that's not nefarious we had two of those this year and it's still been quite a good

year but our sentiment work has started to get stretched cftc data, similar to what we saw in january 2018. actually worse than that, but back then we were also making a new all-time high on that data valuations are a bit full. i think we enjoyed a catch-up trade outside of the top ten names, outside of that big mega-cap growth cohort and the rest of the market or s&p equal weighted, we're starting to creep up around 19 times there's a little bit more room on valuation, but not a lot. we think it's going to be a good year, bottom line. >> you said that before the election if there was a republican sweep that there would be significant tail winds. what was -- and that's obviously what happened. and these tail winds you think are still in effect. what was your probability at that point for republican sweep? >> you know, we did not make any -- we didn't do one of those charts >> if it were to happen, here is what we think. >> i'll tell you, we were actually surprised that we got a

united government on either side we didn't really know which way the white house was going to go, but we felt like we would end up with a split congress, that's not what happened. i think that's where there's been positive uplift for the market and the potential for positive surprise because frankly a lot of hedge funds that i talked to back in september were getting ready for a trump victory. >> yeah. overweight financials and energy energy, if we drill baby drill, it seems like we could increase supply you don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. >> look, i think it's a wrinkle. and we did this survey right before the election of the analysts and asked them to rate their industry outlook the implications under four different scenarios. in the republican sweep scenario the two that were most constructive were financials and energy our analysts acknowledged that issue. there was more excitement about the regulatory to be honest. >> it's a hard one to figure out. but if you remove a lot of the

regulations and permitting, it will increase the supply, but we probably are going to need -- the demand is probably going to keep up globally with the supply that we increase and be selling into that as a country. >> right i'll tell you from my perspective as a strategist, we look at valuations which are still really, really cheap and i would also argue if you think -- this has nothing to do with the election at all, the dividend yield in the energy sector is really, really high versus other sectors and versus history. investors do pay attention to things like that i don't think this is just a pure play on the oil price anymore. >> financials i certainly understand because that's -- you know, democrats go crazy with regulation on the finances. >> if you go back to that survey we did, right, my saw a lot of conflicting cross currents it was deregulation, mna, corporate tax cuts, individual tax cut extensions those were all tail winds. you know, there was some concern

about tariffs. i would say financials is the one sector where, you know, you might get some tariff impacts indirectly if there's an economic ripple effect but there's no direct impact there. >> what about communications services why are you upgrading that >> it's funny. >> funny how ha ha or -- >> funny in a data nerd kind of way. >> okay. >> and data nerds we find our humor where we can but my analysts have been cooler on this one, which is why i have not been overweight. but i'll tell you on my data, the last couple quarters, we've been seeing really compelling valuations versus the rest of the market earnings revision trends have been sneakily strong so this has been one of the strongest sectors on the rates of upwards revisions we're seeing a lot of sectors with modestly downward revisions. if i think about the political aspect, these companies aren't really talking about it at all which is kind of fine with me. i would like to have something from a sector perspective that's not too involved in the election i will go back to my analyst survey again my analysts -- we only have a

couple of them in the sector that had a modestly constructive tilt under the republican sweep and again it was things like taxes and deregulation it wasn't like they were pounding the table on these issues but a few positives and no negatives. we're sort of sitting here looking at all these sectors with a lot of wrinkles and valuation problem. this one has some good earnings revision trends, cheap valuations and no real problems. it seems like a new place for fresh money. >> rbc, would the corporate structure change if we annexed you? >> i don't know. >> in canada >> i don't know. i do spend a lot of time up there. >> you do? >> i do. >> what's going to happen with trudeau? >> i have no idea. >> oh. >> i have no idea. >> big wimp. nobody does. all right. thank you. relax. it's only tv thank you. >> thank you for having me all right. up next, youtube star and former

apple and nasa engineer, mark rober is going to join us right here on set to talk about the rise of influencers and the creator economy. he should know you're not going to believe how many subscribers he has, how many he added the last year. by the way the later the push to release fannie mae and freddie mac from conservatorship. will the incoming trump administration make it happen. they've been there for 15 years. we have that story and much more when we return

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♪ ♪ all right. welcome back, everybody. this is our most fun, our most interesting and probably smartest interview of the day. we're talking about the creator economy right now. our next guest saw impressive growth on youtube in 2024. climbing to number eight on the platform's end of the year top creator's list which i call b.s. on that's crazy because he added

more subscribers than many of these other subscribers even have his subscribers now top 06 million. in his latest video, he announced he is launching a satellite into space giving fans to get their own selfie with earth. we'll talk about that in a moment joining us right now is youtuber mark roeber and the founder of crunch labs and of course, a former nasa and apple engineer, so he comes by all of this stuff honestly and what he's teaching to kids is really great. he's been with us before mark, great to have you back. >> great to be back, yeah. >> so first of all, that number on the youtube subscriber list i take issue with that you added more sub scribers 30 million yurks i question your math if you're talking about percentage changes, it's way easier to have a bigger percentage change on a smaller base he has 60 million subscribers. you guys are dummies. >> double check the math. >> mark, people aren't familiar,

don't know what you do i love you because you each stem, science, technology, engineering to kids and you get them excited about it because you do fun projects and goofs that really gets them excited about this stuff. >> that's it it's like hiding the vegetables. kyle your son was here last time it's like, you know, basically i'll make a video about a jello pool that seems exciting. you click on it. before you know your learning about chemistry and the scientific method. getting people stoked about science and education but making it entertaining at the same time >> and it's been a pretty profitable business for you. one of the things that you created are these crunch labs science experiments that you send out on a subscription basis. >> last time we talked about build box, that's for kids a monthly toy that comes to your porch. i teach you the engineering of how it makes it work now we have hack packs teens and adults so this is like a robot that comes in a box and then, you know, probably a lot of people watching who never learned to code so this is a great first step.

so this is like -- >> oh, a desktop tourette. >> shoot joe. >> refill the magazine idea of making it fun and interesting. the care versus the stick it approach this is a great first step >> remind me of a patriot missile. >> coming in hot. >> yeah. >> that is cool. >> what's cool, too, you can swap out the -- micro controller up the functionality. >> you don't have to build that, do you >> you get to build it what do you mean have to build it >> there's no wayky do that. >> you can this is it engineering is a super power you can actually will something into existence that doesn't exist. this is like a first step for learning how to create and make stuff. >> i will tell you, kyle is a subscriber we get these things at home. we don't have this one we need to upgrade >> is there one micro processer. >> yeah, that's right. there's one brain basically.

>> i don't have to do that >> no, no. you don't have to build it it comes you just pop it in no programming required. but my goal is to take you from where you are at and level you up you can program to make it do other cool stuff. >> and you write some code >> if you want >> you're scaring me. >> it will work. you're a great target customer it will work right out of the box. >> i don't think so. i'm a great target for that thing. >> i'll give you my phone number, one on one customer support. but then you talked about it in launch hiding the vegetables. we just built a satellite. we're launching it into space. >> that's not it. >> this is a scaled model. and there's -- >> what's the scale? >> this is probably like one to five so the real one is maybe this wide there's a screen here. and a camera here. it's going to orbit the earth at 5 miles per second then you can upload your picture to this and it will take your

picture. tell me your zip code, we'll take it when we're over your house, over your city. >> you can stand outside and get it in twice. it's free, but you have to be a subscriber, so it's not free. >> so if you're a subscriber it's free or donate a box to a kid who can't afford it, also get it, 30 buck. that's our thing we're in an all brains on deck situation in the world right now. so the more people -- especially the young folk who get stoked about stem careers, like that's our -- we want to reach as many brains as possible. >> let's talk about the math of the creator economy and how this work how you get paid to this point, you have done this all yourself putting out these boxes. i think you said it's low seven figures that you've been able to launch this initiative with. >> to launch it. yeah so now we have hundreds of thousands of subscribers our revenue is up 500% when we first launched but there are a lot of creator business -- there's a handful of creator businesses worth a billion. every business worth a billion,

a thousand worth 10 million. that number is going up. >> are you worth a billion. >> no. >> not you your thing. >> no. no i mean, no >> you're thinking about it. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. and honestly -- >> you're rounding up. >> we talk about brains reach. that's truly what we're going after. but we have no investor money. we started this from scratch and you can do that. you can be profitable in a week. we made our money back and sold out these boxes because when you reach 400 million eyeballs a month, you can talk about something and get the word out, right? >> you are looking potentially for investors to expand and go beyond >> potentially our big thing now, you know, again, we created a foundation we know this works we know this gets kids stoked. so through the foundation, we already raised a couple million dollars of getting these to folks who underprivileged or underrepresented yeah it's so fun. good time to be alive.

>> i'm still a huge fan of the videos because that is the platform that started all of this. >> that's the key. we still make the monthly videos you have to make those and those end up being a driver for telling folks about this right >> i think we're looking at video of the fake boxes to catch -- the glitter bombs to catch thieves stealing packages which you created because you were mad at people stealing your amazon packages. >> this is the beauty of being an engineer. everyone had this -- felt this feeling. but it's like, hey, i put a rover on mars, right i can design something to get back at these pupgs. we had seven iterations getting crazy. we had drones that came out of a fake package. >> this year we didn't. >> every month you're spending six figures to put together these videos. >> yeah. >> mark, we love what you do >> just checked you out. so i mean, i'm not checking you out. so, brae.

>> orange county. >> brigham young. >> yeah. >> then you're a trojan. >> i know, that's right. >> rough weekend >> yeah. and then i was -- i actually did grad school, yeah, when i was at nasa. >> jpl that's in pasadena. >> yeah. >> so you lived in pasadena. >> now in the bay area i worked at apple for five years. it's like, i'm a youtuber -- >> nine years at apl. >> decade at nasa, five at apple and special projects group and now just the youtube thing and this full time. >> it's really cool. >> so you were quite nerdy. >> oh, yeah. still am and proud of it proud of it. great time to be a nerd. '80s you wanted to be a jock but now, you want to be a nerd. >> cool time to be a nerd. >> this is our time. this is our time >> mark, we love having you here. >> great to be here. >> mark rober, i take issue with youtube's math. >> i'll go straight to the top

on that one. still to come on "squawk box," financial services committee vice chair french hill then later, micro strategy, buying another $1.5 billion in bitcoin. executive chairman michael sailor will be on set to talk about that and much more in the world of crypto. "squawk box" will be right back. ♪ with verizon, trade in any phone, any condition. for a limited time, get iphone 16 pro with apple intelligence. get four on us. only on verizon. the all new godaddy airo helps you get your business online in minutes with the power of ai... ...with a perfect name, a great logo, and a beautiful website. just start with a domain, a few clicks, and you're in business. make now the future at godaddy.com/airo ♪ - [female narrator] they line up by the thousands. each one suffering with a story that breaks your heart.

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♪ all right. welcome back, everybody. shares of u.s. steel are falling this morning, that comes after president-elect trump repeated his pledge to block nippon steel's purchase of the company. shares are off by 7.8% on truth social trump said i am totally against the once great and powerful u.s. steel being bought by a foreign company. in this case, nippon steel of japan. he said through tax incentives and tariff he would make u.s. steel strong and great again as president, he said he would block that deal from happening eended by saying, buyer beware

the first time trump has spoken about that deal since he won the presidential election last month. this was a campaign promise that both the democrats and the republicans were making in this campaign coming up, financial services committee vice chair french hill. in a programming note, tomorrow is "the new york times" deal book summit in new york city featuring on-stage interviews with the ceos of alphabet, openai and also fed chair jay powell and many more as you can see. we will bring you coverage of the summit right here on "squawk box" and throughout the day and andrew will be joining us live there the coercenfen "squawk box" coming right back your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do.

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invest in the future with lexaria bioscience. ♪ it is a congressional house race for the most influential chairmanship in the financial world. our next guest is vying for the gavel. joinings now congressman french hill is currently the vice chairman of the financial services committee he also chairs the digital

assets sub committee and you, i guess, will make the case that you're the right man for the job, congressman >> good morning, joe hope you had a great thanksgiving >> you as well. >> yes, i'm going to make the case to my colleagues on the house steering committee for the republicans that based on my private and public sector career, my legislative success here in the house, my collaboration with my colleagues, my bipartisan leadership and bicameral leadership, i think i'll be the best person to lead the house financial services committee in the new 119th congress >> what do you think the main role will be, no one can predict the future, but what would be like the top three things you would want to enable over the next, i guess, it's only two years probably, at least for starters >> yeah. well, look, i think america needs to be the headquarters for

financial technology and innovation in the world. and so, if we don't complete our work on a market structure bill for digital assets in this lame duck session and create a dollar-back stable coin under u.s. laws and regulations, then i think that should be a priority in the new year because that's been -- certainly was a campaign message and commitment by president trump i think that's something that we could work on together early in the new congress and also, rolling back the burden of regulation, particularly on our community banks. we think we should work hard to tailer regulation that fell away during the biden/harris administration and go back to where we have regulation geared towards the business risk and business strategy of the company. i think that's important both at the s.e.c. and among the bank supervisors. and finally, with the supreme court and other federal courts rolling back the chevron deference, taking away that deference to the independent regulatory agencies rule making,

i think that should be a priority for our committee that we look closely at each of our agencies under our jurisdiction, conduct oversight and etermine are they in compliance with congress's intent and the statutes in the work they're doing. >> for some reason in recent years, community banks have been -- has been difficult for them and we've talked on many differoccasions about even the federal reserve seems to -- the deck seems to be stacked in favor of the big money center banks in a lot of different ways with the way the fed operates and they've had wind falls at the expense of community banks how would you change that? or what's your proposal? >> i think you're right. i want to make community banking competitive again. i want them to attract the capital they need to have a good, competitive return on equity so they can serve their customers. we don't want to turn into canada or europe where we have a handful of big banks

michelle boman, a governor of the federal reserve has been an outstanding spokesperson at the fed on exactly this point in her role as the community banking representative on the fed. we need more of that an example would be in the case of a bank resolution, let's not require a least cost solution and waive the deposit cap. meaning, one of the big globally systemic banks can automatically by a bank that's failed and not allow community banks compete who can't pay equity as high a price as you could but there are many examples on how to reduce regulatory burden, tailer regulations and make mid size private and public banks much more successful. >> i think we have one of your colleagues on tomorrow, andy bart does he want this position as well how many people are in the mix, do you think, congressman? >> i think there are four members, all outstanding members

with long-time service on the committee that are vying for this chairmanship. andy bard from kentucky is one of them. i worked with all of them from a decade all talented all smart. we have an abundance of riches on the financial services committee and leadership i just believe that my private sector career as a startup bank executive of public company executive, my work in the executive branch for president bush 41 and my work here in the house on a bicameral and bipartisan basis make me the best qualified for the job. >> who do you think is closest to the president-elect what's your relationship like? >> i think all the members in our committee have an excellent relationship with president trump. and the people that will go into the financial positions. we all work closely with president trump and his financial supervisory officials at the s.e.c. like jay clayton, jay powell and other bank supervisors when he was in office the first time. so i know that house republicans

and the house services committee will be a great partner for president trump in moving a financial agenda forward for a committee that promotes economic growth, choice for americans and their financial services and a better chance at ownership of the american dream >> you must know warren pretty well, i guess. you saw that news. >> yeah. i'm so proud of arkansas we have two ambassadors representing the american people mike huckabee to israel and now yesterday's news of my childhood friend warren stevens, ceo at stevens ink, will be nominated to go to can of the st. james at the united kingdom both will be outstanding representatives for the american people >> all right well, i think we are talking to one of your colleagues tomorrow that you mentioned was -- would be a good -- it's nice that you said all those nice things about the other people that want the job.

that's nice and collegial. we'll ask him about you tomorrow probably, congressman hill but thank you. >> great to be with you, joe thanks. >> see ya. ♪ coming up, will there be a push to recapitalize freddy and franny mack. freddy and -- freddie mac and fannie mae by the incoming trump administration and what would it mean for mortgage rates. "squawk box" will be right back. at pgim custom harvest, our unique direct indexing approach seeks to help investors achieve better after-tax outcomes. pgim investments. shaping tomorrow, today what is cirkul? cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul is your frosted treat with a sweet kick of confidence. cirkul is the effortless energy that gets you in the zone. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com. deadline in five! finished and sent. [sending swoosh] we have tight turnarounds.

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♪ it's time to try defying gravity ♪ ♪ ♪ welcome back, everybody. mortgage giants fannie mae and freddie mac, known as the gses have been in government conservatorship all the way back in 2008. in the first trump administration, there was a big push to try to recapitalize and release them, but the pandemic got in the way now there's growing chatter that it could happen in the second trump term diana olick has been digging into this. she joins us with more

hi, diana. >> reporter: good morning, becky. yeah the conservatorship was never intended to be permanent those who want them private, again, argue that taxpayers should not be backstopping the mortgage market. i spoke with mark, who was fhfa director in the first trump administration and the architect of the gse recap and release plan >> we literally spent millions of dollars on plans. we have two paths to make investors feel that something is risk free. path one is congress comes in, government creates an explicit guarantee. we tried that route. didn't happen. unlikely to happen the other route is how do you build up these companies in such a way that the balance sheets are strong enough for the quality of the assets are strong enough that you get close to being risk free? >> his plan was 8% capital on the balance sheet in front of the mbs and increased credit quality on borrower. the gs-es have been building

considerable capital recently, although the pandemic cost them billions in bailouts for borrowers and mortgage service i spoke with mark zandy, chief economist at moodies without an exples it guarantee, mortgage rates would go up 75 to 100 basis points and even more for lower credit worthy borrower he also argues that president-elect trump just wants to boost the stocks for wealthy shareholders like bill ackman. the stocks are already way up since the election, but collabria disagrees. >> important to remember, at end of the day, anything that happens to the shareholders is incidental i don't believe anybody in this administration is looking to help or hurt them. >> he admits this will not be high on the president-elect's priority list. zandy says the most likely scenario is they stay in conservatorship. he added privatetization is a solution looking for a problem becky? >> that's really interesting he thinks it's more likely even

though the plan was never for this to happen and here we are 15 years later >> well, zandy think it will not happen collabria think there's a good chance it would be two years from now but he says there's a lot of backing for it in congress and in the new administration. he thinks that the plan is ready, as he said. it's on the shelf and ready to go it's just a question of will the new treasury secretary want to push it. >> does callabria think, it will drive up borrowing costs by 75 to 100 bases points? >> he does not he does not at all in fact, he thinks it will make mortgage rates slightly lower and cheaper for all borrowers. there's a complicated reason why i could get into he disagrees on the mortgage rates going up and does think it will make credit slightly harder, though and so in that sense he does agree with zandy. >> that's the one thing that no

elected official will want to see higher costs for people getting into homes because that was part of what -- >> that's the biggest problem in this market. >> right diana, thank you we'll be watching it very closely. diana olick. >> it's not just giving tuesday. it's travel tuesday. we'll talk hot hotel and flight deals after the break with lead economist of the travel site hopper later, rockefeller international chairman ruchir sharma and discuss his latest op-ed piece titled the mother of all bubbles. he's here to ela "squawk box" will be right back. car, this isn't the way home. that's right james, it isn't. car, where are we going? we're here. (♪♪) surprise!!! the future isn't scary. not investing in it is. car, were you in on this?

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well, after a lot of days of spending on ourselves, everything from black friday to small business saturday to cyber monday, today is giving tuesday. a time to give back apparently also known as travel tuesday and it is one of the biggest days for travel deals joining us right now is hailey berg, hopper's lead economist. by the way, that term, travel tuesday was coined by hopper a few years ago. and has since become a key date across the industry.

hailey, the point is that you all have a lot of travel partners and you release a lot of big deals for travel at a time that doesn't see a whole lot of bookings. >> your right. typically we see a slump in travel bookings in the week after thanksgiving it's part of the reason that we first discovered that this was naturally happening. even before we branded it travel tuesday. providers were dropping week after thanksgiving what we did was brand it and sweeten the deal with additional discounts. >> as a result, you have seen 500% growth i think i was reading over several years >> exactly >> the growth in searches for travel tuesday has been over 500% from 2021 to 2023 and we have seen more travel providers jumping in and participating with special deals and discounts on this day to try to drum up more demand for those end of year trips or even 2025 bucket list trips.

>> we have had analysts over the last week telling us that this year it seems like people are getting back into the position of buying on goods post-pandemic it was this everybody was looking for experiences. the point that a couple of analysts made to us is that inflation has really run up on services not as much when it comes to the goods and that may be why you're seeing people going back to buying jeans or a sweater or something else to give what have you seen just in terms of demand when it comes to travel overall >> we've really not seen a slow-down in travel demand even before the holiday what we have seen fairly consistently post-pandemic but even before starting back in 2017, 2018 is that younger generations, gen z, millennials are spending more of their discretionary income on travel, even as they spend a little bit more on goods, they are still maintaining that income set aside for travel and experiences

and they're even expanding about half of our hopper users are planning to spend the same or more on travel in the next six months as they did in the priest >> i was watching and it looks like we had the busiest travel days ever, many this year including over the last week with people getting home for the holidays for thanksgiving. what are you anticipate over the winter holidays, over christmas holiday? >> your right. tsa screened a record number of passengers on sunday and beat the record last set in july of this year, over 3 million passengers screened. we expect over the christmas holiday there will be more capacity spread. with thanksgiving, the sunday after the holidays, the biggest travel day of the year typically because most people need to get home for school and work with christmas, we are expecting about 2.5 percentage points more capacity flying, but it will be spread over more days. so we might not see any record-breaking single days, but

we are still expecting about 3 .5 million seats to depart from u.s. airports everyday of the week of christmas. >> sounds like fun at the airports hailey, thank you. we really appreciate it. >> great being with you. >> hailey berg folks, it is 8:00 a.m. on the east blackrock branching further into private credit. they said that transaction will create an integrated private franchise. that stock down right now. elon musk losing another bid to get his pay package reinstated. a judge up holding her prior decision. tesla said will it'll appeal

with musk calling it corruption. and china is banning exports of key minerals to the united states siting national security concerns. items related to the minerals gallium will be restricted. that move comes a day after washington's latest crack down on the chinese computer chip sector. the biden administration started the week by curbing exports to 130 countries. and news on at&t. the company is holding a investor day today. ahead of that it's outlining a plan with a focus on 5g and fiber subscriber growth . they expect to reach more than 50 million fiber locations by 2029. it said it expects to distribute $40 billion over the next three years to share holders. a little more than 20 billion in dividends. it'll maintain the $1.11s a share dividend in the next three years an a yearly basis

and then it has about $20 billion worth of share buy backs. they haven't had a share buy back plan since the first quarter of 2020 when the pandemic hit. at&t also providing updated adjusted 2024 earnerrings share guidance. $1.90 to $1.95 if you exclude direct tv. company's point is that it'll continue investing in its network and giving back to share holders maintaining that two and a half times of leverage. the stock up by 3.5%. don't miss a first on cnbc interview at 10:00 a.m. with the at&t ceo. the futures this morning, have been pretty quiet. up 20 points for the dow. mixed on the s&p and the

nasdaq, a look at some of this morning's premarket moves. >> good morning. let's quiet started a check on shares of united states steel. right now they are down just about maybe 7, 8%. 7.5%. after president elect trump repeated his opposition to a buy out by japanese company. trump said in a ruth social post he would block the deal and help united states steal through a series of tax incentives and tariff policies. that deal in jeopardy. turning to shares of live nation they are down 3% right now after the company announced a billion dollars dead offering. the concert promoter and ticket master owner said it'll use the proceeds to buy a portion of its convertible notes and repay outstanding notes. those shares have been on a run since the election, up 13%

since trump was elected. they are probably seeing the potential for future mma's so shares down 3.5%. and cvs up after it was upgraded to a buy from a prior hold. though think they are optimistic about new leadership and believe the company took steps to improve profit. they have fallen almost 25% amid surging medical costs to watch cbs health. for more on that and other top calls of the day head over to cnbc.com/pro. subscribers can get more access. back to you. news out now from meta. >> reporter: good morning. meta releasing a post laying out the success of its defense against election manipulation saying many were warning of the

potential impact of ai on the election. it seems that these risks did not appear in a significant way and any such impact was modest and limited in scope. they noted less than 1% of all fact checked misinformation was generated by ai and they prevented foreign interference taking down 20 operations around the world this year. they said they prevented their own tool called imagine ai from being misused rejecting nearly 600,000 requests to generate deep fakes of the candidates in the month eading up to the election. and amid concerns that president trump will attack meta for unfairly censoring content they said it pulls down harmless content saying we know that when enforcing our policies our error rates are high which gets in the way of free expression we set out to enable saying we will continue

to work on this in the months ahead. and nick clegg saying that the ceo is willing to work with the trump administration on tech issues. >> we have seen some evidence of that or seen funny memes as well. you probably have as well of -- like a big face of zuckerberg looking in on all the goings on at mar-a-lago with the president elect and some other tech titans. it's kind of funny. thank you. coming up michael sailor will join us on his company's latest bit coin purchase. a lot of them now for them. bit coin trading around $95,000 this morning. next we will hear from the rockefeller chairman who said admiration for american

exceptionalism is in some bubble territory. you're watching squawk box on cnbc. experience the art of high pressure brewed coffee and espresso with the l'or barista system. enjoy richer, bolder flavors complete with velvet smooth crema. for a satisfying moment unlike any other.

our next guest has a new piece in the final times called the mother of all bubbles. he said one idea of a bubble is a good idea that's gone to far and awe of america has gone to far. let welcome the rockefeller international chairman. is he cio of break out capitol and the author of what witness wrong with capitalism which is misleading. there should be something that explains what the title is saying. you know, around here we love that you are saying that because we love having people on that are trashing

capitalism. you are saying there's -- pure capitalism has been infected by to much government. that's your point. i like your -- i like what you said here. i see you have published it in the ft. financial -- they were only too glad to have something writing that america is over done. they wish that they had this type of -- let me say what you are saying then you can explain. it is a -- almost a fact that the united states economy out preforms everything else. our stock market. what you are basically saying is with the election of trump it's even gotten moreover done in terms of what people are expecting for the future and we are already richly valued. >> exactly. that's the point. i have been a big fan of america. in fact the first book i wrote back in 2012, break out nations -- in that book i had said that all these brick nations at that point in time were over hyped and that the true break out

nation in the world was america. i wish i had invested my career accordingly. its been a great decade for american out performance but now, to my point exactly, that even when publications like the -- like you said -- but there are so many reporters and other people writing for the ft, all the cover story of the economist if you saw a month ago -- they are all calling the america the envy of the world and when magazine cover stories have the point and that is all that they are talking about you know that the trend is extended. the trend of american out performance has been the longest we have seen in recorded history. this -- and remember that not all trends just go on forever and there are big pauses in these trends. american went through the 2000's where the s&p was nearly flat. the 70s with the real return was negative and here is what's

happened is that -- the way that american is dominating the mind space and everybody just wants to invest more in america has become disconnected from the underlying reality. how do you have a situation where the size of the economy is 27, 28% of global gdp but the stock market, if you look at the global index is approaching 70%. it's that disconnect that i speak about as being really a problem and how everybody, literally everybody has given up on the idea of investing outside of america, diversity seems dead. >> let me ask you this. we have talked about it quite a bit that even coming into the presidency at 23 times earnings is a kind of a -- much better to come in at -- after a financial crisis or pandemic or something like that because 23 times earnings you are going to need earnings growth, not

multiple expansion. the case you made about a bubble is the american economy the bubble or is it the stock market has gotten ahead of itself reflecting what is a -- what is the best economy in the world, probably? is that hitting a bubble? the economy or just the stock market? >> no. just a couple of things. one to the point i make in the piece is that it's not so much about the american market being in a bubble because in the 2000s it was greater. it's the gap which is a bubble. for example if you look at the value gap. it's the widest its been in recorded history. against things like emerging markets the gap is back to where it was at the depth of the east asin and financial crisis in october 1998. it's very important point here. it is the gap which is at the record level. regarding the economy, something that we spoke about

that, yeah, the economy also seems a bit inflated when you have full employment and you are running a budget deficit of 6% of gdp. that's telling you that so much government is artificially bumping the economy well above this under line trend and that's helping corporate profits. there's two elements but the big thrust is that the gap between america and the rest of the world today is at levels that we have never seen before and this gap is unsustainable, particular when the piece is so well understood that every other writer and reporter is extolling the same point. >> we were in davos just before the pandemic and then president trump visited and he was like the toast. he was the belle of the ball from a lot of types that couldn't stand him but they had to acknowledge what was going on and then the pandemic hit and all bets were off.

we have talked about that when things get what ru describing right now, to good to be true. let me ask you a question. we are at six or 7%. what if this doge initiative for cutting spending and what of getting rid of a lot of the regulations. what if that actually happens? is it possible that the strong economic cycle could be extended? if you do -- if we do the right things starting on january 20th. >> yes. i'm a big supporter of the deregulation stuff. you referenced my book. it argues the fact that capitaalism has been ruined by to much government and regulations have opinion hurting small and midsized businesses. if trump does succeed and is he a disruptor at the very least you should expect that's shift in the market to take place. you i have been arguing that the maker caps and the big tech

have been benefiting from to much regulation. they have -- big regulation helps big companies. if you get a true disruption then that should be good for small and midsized businesses in particular and that should lead to a turn in the stock market. this analysis -- you know that the same trends under biden will continue under trump, that's really what the market is saying. i find that a problem because that sort of implies that trump won't be as disruptive as imagined. i think we can't -- if he can going to succeed a mix a the market needs to change and if he takes longer to succeed, my fear is that the deficit fears could come first to dominate and by the time that we get doge, next year we will be dealing with the deficit fears. if the tax cuts are extended without any spending cuts you are looking at 7% of gdp.

they are coming alive in france, they are coming alive in brazil and there's a limit to what they will be asleep when the deficit hits 7% of gdp next year. >> yeah. there's -- it's -- when so many things are going so well the only way is -- the only direction is down. even -- and you think even the mag 7 -- may not be the maga7. if there's less regulation some of these big companies that benefited by the regulation. that's an interesting point to make as well. so we may not -- the mag7 may not lead the market higher. >> exactly. especially if trump succeeds on deregulation i think that's a big turn that the market is underestimates. a lot of interesting, like, stuff can happen here. i think that the big story is that the massive gap between

america and the rest of the world today that's opened up and that's sort of got a further -- after trump's election. i think that gap is -- is unsustainable. you can't have one stock market in the world dominating. >> that's bad because i don't feel like i enjoyed it enough so the gap is at an all time high. i will have to enjoy it while it lasts. thank you. good to have you on. >> thank you. >> okay. see you. coming up, california congressman ro khanna for a conversation on potential tech policy in the next administration, ev production in california, some really interesting moves made by the governor in california that -- that -- could ostr acize tesla. right now as we head to the break let's look at shares of citi group, mike mayo naming

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welcome back. bit coin this morning just under now, 95,000. down about 1.3%. we will talk to michael in just a few minutes. we will talk about electric vehicles and policy in california. this comes after some recent news that tesla buyers could be excluded from ev credits in california. r o khanna urged california leaders no to the play politics with keeping manufacturing in the state. he said have we learned nothing from snubbing elon at the ev

summitt he joins us right now. his district covering the heart of silicon valley. you caught my attention, getting caught up with what's playing out. let's talk about the governor of california. he basically rolled out a lot of things to try to say that he was going to protect california from the next administration but he laid out the idea that california tax holders -- taxpayers would continue to have a subsides for ev sales in the state but that tesla may not qualify. a little crazy. elon musk said he is the only company making electric vehicles in california and you weighed in on it too. you want to explain how you weighed in and why? >> california having electric vehicle tax credits makes all the sense but excluding elon

musk and tesla for probably political reasons is foolish. the reality is that tesla is the biggest manufacturer of electric vehicles in california. the inflation reduction act got rid of the caps on companies like tesla so they could produce more electric vehicles and three days ago the new york times had a report that china is leading, 1.7 million electric vehicles exporting around the world. we are way behind. we need to be producing more of these electric vehicles in the united states. i don't think politics should interfere with manufacturing. >> it's probably worth pointing out that tesla employs 20,000 people in your district. they manufactured more than 550,000 cars in your district last year. what has the reaction been from

the governor and beyond in the legislature? >> they say that they want to help smaller companies gain market share. that's all well and good but the point is that the electric vehicle market as you know has a much smaller share right now than internal combustion enginses. more broadly, we shouldn't have a sense that politics is intervening. you can disagree with musk as i do on a number of issues and speak out about that but don't target a company because of political views. >> you said that. the governor has not copped to that. what makes you think this is purely politics? >> look. i mean the governor and others are going to say this is to help the small manufacturers and even the federal regulations had a cap of

200,000. the democratic party itself with the inflation reduction act took away the caps from tesla and other ev manufactureerns because we said what was more important was to have electric vehicle manufacturing flourish in the united states. the reality is that there is no clear rationale that isn't colored by politics. when biden didn't invite musk and showered praise on mary bara as the visinary for electric vehicles that was none sense. she was dragging her feet and tesla helped create the revolution with a grant from obama. people hate that kind of politics. >> you know congressman, this is a pretty interesting delve into what's happening. there are democrats who kind of look at what happened with the election and say we are going

to fight. there's others who say, hey, this is showing us that we have to live a little differently. we have to make sure we reach out. i know you have been in touch with elon musk who has been involved in the trump administration on this. what's the outreach? what's the message that you get back and forth when you are in touch with him? >> i try to call balls and strikes based on what i believe. when i talk to elon if he is for looking at the defense budget and looking at the five primes who had a monopoly on the defense budget i say let's work together on that. you have democrats calling for defense cuts suddenly saying we don't want to because elon wants to. we disgross on the consumer financial protection bureau and

i said i think that's an agency saving americans money and helping americans not get credit card fees. you have to engage in a conversation. tell people where you agree and work together and where you disagree. make the case while you disagree. >> you know governor and california is in -- still in that preelection world. you had to have had your eye -- we were going to run and -- the joe ticket would have been -- a more -- i just had someone write in, tell ro to run for governor. i'm a republican but it's so crazy out here. i would vote for him. you -- even you are a reasonable, i think, alternative to what we get from california most of the time. congressman, has nothing changed? no one in california learned anything from what happened on -- what was that, november 5th?

>> are you changing the plan, joe? >> i'm -- we are out. we are out. we're way. >> are you moving to california? >> i love california. i just wish that the governor hadn't ruined it or that the left hadn't ruined it. >> look. california has an incredible amount of things to be proud of. we are leading on the innovation, on ai. >> i know. we're going to kill the golden goose so you don't want to let elon musk make cars. >> ro does. >> i know. it's like hiding your head against the wall out there because it feels so good when you stop. it makes no sense. you are saying it but nicer. >> look. i think california needs to realize that we are part of something much bigger which is the united states of america and that we need to look out

for how we help with the the country, how we make manufacturing a super power. california needs to be part of the larger conversation. there are areas where we can find common ground and people want us to work together. you don't have to start the next election a month after the previous one before the person is even assumed office. >> so what does that translate to on your work there in washington? what are you doing, what are you thinking is going to happen with this administration? how will you work with them and what areas will you not work with them? >> on the areas of manufacturing, i mean if they are looking at putting strategic tariffs on china which is dumping goods still into the united states i will work with them. if they are looking at a tax credit to keep manufacturing here i would work with them. how about raising the corporate

tax rate for companies off shoring so they don't have a cheaper tax rate here in the united states? a program for more machinists and plumbing rates. capping interest rates. cutting wasteful spending. fdr was for cutting wasteful spending. why do democrats say don't? let's look at it and i would work there. those are just a few of the issues. there are issues where he disagree. my sense is that if we could just get the country working together for a year on key areas, we would make progress and earn some trust back with the american people. >> congressman, thank you. it's always good to see you and we will talk to you again soon. >> yeah. >> appreciate it. >> no -- it'll be jd. we're out. we're out. we're not -- you may -- you should go to -- i don't see a pete wilson or a ronald regan

ever again out there. it's impossible. you elected adam schhiff. >> don't give up hope. >> crazy. >> the midwest and the coast. i'm telling you. bring the country together. >> all right. see you later. we will talk bit coin and the next potential milestone with michael saylor. his company just completed another big bit coin purchase. you're watching squawk box on ms-on -- oh my god.

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welcome back to squawk box. the futures this morning a little bit of a mixed future. dow up by 40%. the nasdaq down by five points. that's where we have been through much of the morning. not massive moves in any one direction. if you look at the treasury market you will see that the ten year yielding just below 420. the two year is at 416. micro strategy adding to its bit coins, purchasing

15,400 bit coin at $95,000 per bit coin for a cost of 1.5 billion. the chairman said we huddle more than 400,000 bit coin. joining us now michael saylor. it's good to have you in studio again. your average for those 400,000 is 58,000 per bit coin? its been moving higher as you keep buying at higher prices. >> we bought it 42 times. >> and at this point the strategy is to issue stock or convertible debt of micro strategy and use that. >> we are providing high performance equity. we are providing convertible bonds and other kinds of bonds.

we want to bridge the traditional market and plug that into the crypto economy. >> the -- what percent age of the public do you think understands bit coin at this point? i don't know if it helps to go into your strategy, what you just tweeted about if people don't understand bit coin and i still see it everywhere that it's -- its air air or that it's -- not like gold because you can't make jewelry out of it. i still see people saying that because you can't touch it that it can't be real and it can't represent money. can we go into how you make a return? >> here is what you need to know. the s&p is about 15arr for the past four years and the s&p is 15. if you want to own a commodity like silver or soybeans or gold they have very -- very low

performance, less than 15%, 5%, 0%, you don't really want to hold soybeans for 100 years. sometimes they have vola tility but it doesn't last. bit coin is 60 volatility, and it's -- it's a legal commodity but it is an economic scarcity. it's the only one that's absolutely capped and that mean that you can expect it to keep going up. if i can give you a commodity that out preforms the s&p index, one that is more volatile than the s&p index you can put 100% of your liquid assets in it per sec rules. i can't do it with a security by the way. up until bit coin people had to use gold or real estate as their commodity or the united states treasury bill. those are all under preforming in the s&p and less volatile. bit coin is the first thing you can use in your treasury that's

more volatile that out preforms the s&p. the result is if i give you a security that out preforms the s&p how much do you want to buy? if i give you -- if you are an options trader and i give you an option that's 4x the s&p or we are 10x. how much do you want to trade? bit coin is a unique. more volatile that you can put on the balance sheet. >> that's not always a good thing. it's great when something is going higher. do you -- you don't think there will be a drop or significant drop? have we moved past that because of the regulatory changes? >> i think that it'll remain volatile because it's a 24-7, 365 global asset. you can panic sell it on saturday night, you can buy it

on sunday morning. that's a feature. that's not a bug. >> you have lived through some of the swings. do you think we won't see the down turns like we have seen in the past because of the changes we have seen? >> i think it'll surge through the roof and then surge to 180 and crash to 140 and people will be freaking out about it again. let me make this one analogy. it's like fire. some people run away from the fire but henry ford put the fire into a carriage via engine, created an industry and gave humanity wings. >> can we talk about -- i'm leading up to -- for me and for everybody to understand your tweet. this from, i think in the last hour. what you do last week with the treasury operations. you were able to generate a bit coin yield of 2.55% or -- over almost 10,000 bit coin to share

holders. can you explain -- will i be able to understand this if you explain this? >> we sold one and a half billion dollars worth of stock backed by 500 million worth of bit coin and bought back 1.5 billion of bit coin. we captured nearly a billion dollar gain. that we can do with eqquity. we do it with debt we issue three billion dollars of debt that's backed by 600 million of bit coin. it comes due in five years. we pay 0% interest. we buy three billion dollars of bit coin and capture the $2.4 billion in the gain up front but then over the course of the five years we double or we quadruple the investment because we are buying an asset which is appreciating fast. >> you said it is 55% prejump over conversion but a zero coupon. >> that was a zero coupon 55 and you can do that because bit coin is high volume and the

companies that have it on their balance sheet have even higher volatility. mera did a billion dollars convert zero coupon. this week they are back doing it again. you can rinse and repeat that frequently. >> tell me what you think -- told microsoft that they should do and what are the chances it happen? >> microsoft is buying it's own stock back, giving out cash flows. if they swept their existing cash into bit coin it probably would add a trillion in the market cap and $150 to the share price. if they converted to the dividend into bit coin that's another $150 to the share price. if they replaced the buy backs with bit coin instead of surrendering it -- another trillion dollars and $150 to the share price.

if they just take a little bit of leverage they add another trillion. instead of surrendering the capitol and then leveraging up the company, right now microsoft trades at 20 times forward expectations. what you are -- what you -- or i will say it 95% of the enterprise value is based on expectations is the best way to say it. that means it has -- it's very asset pure. it is expectation rich. why don't you buy assets and instead of 95% on expectation be 50% on expectation. derisk it, grow the enterprise value and feed the digital economy of the future. >> what was the response? >> the share holder meeting is december 10th. we'll find out. >> what do you expect?

>> i don't have any illusions that they will immediately embrace bit coin but it'll be a part of the conversation and there are about 120 company that are public that are starting to hold hold bitcoin right now. rumble is getting in to the business and as they start to buy it and issue fixed income securities you will see demand increase. >> so what inning are we in do you think? >> sorry? >> what inning. feels like the 2nd inning or maybe not even. >> i think we get in to the 3rd inning when we cross $100,000. >> that's the 3rd. ist right now it's still early. i think. >> not a softball game. it may be a doubleheader even. may be -- or maybe 13 or 14

innings. thank you. i will go home and think some more. i think on this after you come in and then my head starts hurting and then i give up. >> thank you, joe. >> you're welcome. >> like the tie. when we come back top black friday and cyber monday take aways aways with affirm founder max levchin. stay tuned. you're watching squawk box and this is cnbc. it is truly about the journey. (cheering) (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) ♪

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our next guest joins us to weigh in on black friday and cyber monday and how consumers are spending right now. joiningus is max levchin, ceo

of the firm affirm let's talk about what you are seeing first of all so far. with affirm people can buy now, pay later. i think you have users whose average or their median income is around $74,000, maybe a little below the national average of 80,000, is that correct? >> that's right. about 71% of our consumers are prime or super prime and we go young, so millennial and generation z. >> what were they buying? >> i made predictions before the shopping season started and i was mostly right. general items is always easy. clothing was more than i expected. i made a big pronouncement. electronics would be back. everybody needs an upgrade and that's in the top five. furniture is always there and

that's easy. the biggest one i was wrong on, travel i thought was going of done for. it was going triple digits and it's still in a top five. people are not traveled out. they see more travel. >> you are the second person that said that. that travel is still continuing. what do you see in terms of stress on the consumers? are they feeling it? it doesn't feel like if if they are buying everything and anything at this point. >> no. at least affirm consumers and we think we are special because we are really good at under writing but united states consumer seems to be doing really well. they are paying their bills on time. we printed 2.8 late -- last quarter and that number has held up really well for us. we feel very good about that. >> what do you predict for the next year over this? we have been predicting

recession that hasn't shone up for a couple of years at this point. >> i can predict recessions i would have a different job. we will continue to under write transactions and won't charge late fees and won't hurt personal finances when people need help. we have been enjoying our ability to manage risk over the last few years and have no intention of slowing down. >> your stock is up about 40% over the year to date. you are looking to achieve profit on a gap basis a year from now. the 4th quarter of 2025. >> fiscal quarter. it is a lot less than a year from now. >> okay. >> we are months away. >> so fiscal 4th quarter ends in january? >> we end our quarter in june. we are midyear, change of year time. >> okay. that is coming up pretty quickly. we have seen a few companies that have recommended your

stock at higher prices including goldman sach a's that just came along with that and jp morgan as well. >> that's good to hear all those recommendations. better late than never. for a time we were written off for dead and we have done really well as a company and it's good to see that in the stock. we are growing our market share for about half the revenue industry and growing it about twice as fast as the rest of our competition. we think we are in really good shape. >> the incoming trump administration -- there's been a lot of talk about drop in some of the regulatory oversight and i think some have said the cfpb. have there been tweets about that and how it shouldn't exist. what's your take. you don't get quite as much oversight as a lot of the banks do. if there is less oversight will it help you, the banks compete against you? >> first of all, we get about

the same attention from the regulators as the banks. we aren't excused. it doesn't spare you the attention of the regulators and we welcome it. it helps we don't charge late fees. we are a no interest, hard stance company. we have had a great relationship with all of our regulators. i feel very good about our position. >> you are a long time friend of elon musk. you co founded pay pal. there's been ups and downs along the way but i think recently you said you all still text back and forth about your interests. have you spoken to him about the incoming administration that he has been very closely involved with? >> we keep our conversations to science fiction. it's always a safe topic. >> so no. what would you like to see? is there anything you would like to see happening in the

incoming administration that you think may be -- could be improved on? >> i am a big fan of efficiency so all the talk of efficiency sounds great to me. i'm far from a government alex period al expe rt so how they do that is mysterious to me but i love the idea of the entrepreneur spirit in the government. i think as a country we are exceptional at managing disruptive change and doing amazing things. affirm is an attempt to disrupt an old industry and so, that in the government is a good thing. >> what was the -- the problem you all were trying to fix when you started affirm? where did you see the biggest problems? >> it goes back to my personal story. i came to the united states as a teen, had no credit history

or credit rating, messed up in college and my credit score tanked for years, i couldn't get a credit card, couldn't buy a car with a loan and there are many like me. i wanted to start a company that would help them get recognition and get fairly under written and why not eliminate ridiculous business models like late fees and fees fees and deferred interest. >> we want to thank you for joining us. its been a pleasure seeing how the company has grown. >> thank you. >> thank you. we will be right back.

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let's get a final check of the market. not a lot of action to tell you about other than, i think, tom lee when he was on yesterday in talking about getting to 6300 on the s&p said near term. >> i thought he said by the end of the year. >> he did but he said near term. you may see. >> a little bit.

>> i don't know. >> he talks near term he means the next three to four. >> he does but then santa will still arrive and then he has like -- stuff about that he says about bit coin as well that he is not shy about making very aggressive predictions and we will be -- you don't have to wait long to test them out. join us tomorrow. squawk on the street coming up now. good tuesday morning. welcome to squawk on the street. pretty steady premarket as we come off the 54th record high of the year for the s&p. ten year, below 4-2 as the market is more confident of a december cut. powell speaks tomorrow e are. a judge blocked the $56 billion pay