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welcome to "power lunch" alongsidely evans i'm jon fortt. no big moves for the major averages the big thing wall street is watching, earnings from salesforce after the bell and how well it is monetizing a.i. >> they think the a.i. agent will help the category >> don't sleep on the small games. >> markets are looking ahead to some key jobs data, the a.d.p. reports tomorrow and one of the last big data points before the decision on the 18th the jolts report today was -- it didn't show a decline. it didn't show an increase thoi tut was better. any way, the jobless claims most importantly had been wonderful

if it holds in there, it will make december's cut tricky for the fed. >> and bitcoin holding steady at 95,000 earlier on "squawk box," michael sailor explained how his company is borrowing money and using it to buy more bitcoin. coming up we'll debate whether this is a brilliant strategy or whether it could end badly maybe both. >> this is one of the sort of battleground stocks. people who swear by it and people who can't stand it. so, we'll show you a little glimpse of that debate. >> kind of like borrowing a ton of money to buy real estate. >> it depends on the price of that thing doing up. let's start with the marks which are down nasdaq was at a new high and investors gear up. one of our guests makes the case for the russell 2000 up 10% considering 6% for the s&p

michael far is president and ceo of far miller in washington an the chief market strategist at high tower it is good to have you here. and michael, you're a cnbc contributor as well. brant, on the case for small caps, micro strategy is one of them and small caps is another is this performance living up to its goals for you and you think it will continue into next year? >> yeah. certainly you've seen small caps outperform large caps, after we had the cpi report which started bringing in the fed to cutting rates into the equation. and so we do continue to believe that longer term holders should focus more on small caps just because they are cheap relative to the large cap counterparts and if you believe the market is going to continue pushing higher, it needs to broaden out which it has recently and we expect that to continue into 2025. >> the larger question is do you expect conditions to be favorable for the market overall. is there any reason for people

to overly bet on the small caps instead of find things to like about stocks broadly >> look, i think there are a lot of risks that are still out there in 2025. we're in a economic cycle and inflation is not back to 2% and have you seen economic weakness beneath the surface and lower income consumers and companies that are more tied to interest rates which small caps are look, i think you want to maintain exposure to fixed income and stay diversified because 2025 is certain to be uncertain. so to me, you want to stay diversified and putting all of your eggs in small caps is not bright thing for us so we want small cap names which offer value for long-term focused investors. >> a lot of people saying that the major indices, they are fully valued after the post election rally as we look ahead to the start of the second trump administration do you diversify or what do you

do >> john, i think we've been saying that stocks are fully valued for about the past five years it feels like. price to earnings multiples at 22 times are full. no question about it should you be diversified. you should always be reasonably diversified. but not over diversified but i like the notion ever small caps they've well underperformed. we've had concentration of mega caps, the top ten stocks represent 35, 40% of the index and the top three 20% of the index and these are huge and expensive names but small caps many ever them have lagged so there is opportunity there there is opportunity in the other 490 stocks that haven't really performed well either so, to go through your discipline, which is really the key, to take some profits and perhaps pair some of those positions that have grown really large in your portfolio and now we're representing outside risk and redeploy money to some of

the things that haven't -- or perhaps underperformed, i think it makes a great deal of sense you have to be disciplined about it and you can't be emotional about it and be tax sensitive coming into the end of the year. caution, but i think very deliberate and what you say makes sense. >> michael, what about the notion that there is a reason why certain things have underperformed, small caps for example, the rich have gotten richer in in thmarket for a while. we used to talk about a certain cohort of stocks faang and that was nor netflix and now we talk about nvidia we keep coming up with new larger caps that are doing well for a specific reason and the u.s. has outperformed a lot of international markets perhaps for a reason what lend should you use when you're think being diversifying into some of the areas that haven't done well? >> yeah, okay, so first of all, you have to use a very cautious and careful lens go there first money is hard to make and when you've had a couple of years of

a roaring market, you forget about the risk and the down side and the pain don't forget about the pain. so, to take some of those profits, i think makes sense make we're in this, i believe, trump honeymoon phase of the new trump presidency here. the last trump presidency was very volatile at times i remember just before coming on the air, he said something about 100% tariffs on canadian steel and i went, he said what and it is very difficult to discern the difference between real policy, and president trump's posturing. they could both be very effective. but trying to pay attention to what to listen to. so there is a trump trade out there. it is a less regulated environment but it is also a more volatile environment. so still finding good balance sheets companies with real earnings and not too much debt, that probably will do okay in a 3% gdp growth year coming up >> okay, so we'll keep our hands

on our wallets there michael far and brant, thank you. now let's turn to the bond market yield flatten as we await jobs data later this week rick santoli joins us from new york. >> this morning at 10:00 eastern we saw jolts and job openings, they were stronger than expected if you look at a 2-year and a 10-year, all yields moved higher on that data but after the data was out and we peaked in terms of the intraday prices, the short material two-year gave up ground much, much faster hence steepening the curve in front of adp tomorrow and the 10-year still hovering on a closing basis since mid-october and a lot of that is just reversing the flattening over the last couple of days and i think the 2-year is trying to catch up to some of the down yield moves on

maturities politics matter, the french have issues going on like much of the globe and their politics are playing into the market place. pushing up french yields and if you look at a french 10-year called an oat versus the german highest quality sovereign, the boon, you could see it at 85 basis points french minus german, it is the widest its been going all the way back to 2012 and those borrowing costs could hurt and coming from a country like us, we need to pay ttention ho quickly the markets could move and finally, the dollar against the chinese currency, plenty of headlines what the trump administration may aim toward china. well the dollar is now at a one-year high. jon fortt, back to you. >> thank you and you emphasized as kelly did, job openings at 7.74 million in october. that was up. well, coming up, at the height

of the clo bins udusesboom salesforce was front and center but how is it holding up in the a.i. era we'll discuss next ♪ (alarm sound) ♪ amelia, turn off alarm. amelia, weather. 70 degrees and sunny today. amelia, unlock the door. i'm afraid i can't do that, jen. ♪ (suspenseful music) ♪ why not? did you forget something? ♪ (suspenseful music) ♪ my protein shake. the future isn't scary. not investing in it is. you're so dramatic amelia. bye jen.

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nate likes what he sees... and he places the trade... talk about easier investing. welcome back to "power lunch. a tale of two different tech names. intel announcing the ceo pat gelsinger is out as the company struggled to navigate a turn around and to push into developing chips to compete with the a.i. boom. meanwhile salesforce has got the attention of customers and investors alike. here to help us on both companies is ceo daniel knewman. good to see you. so intel, moving on beyond pat, doesn't necessarily fix anything what should investors know about what it is going to take

i think there is the initial bump that everyone was excited thinking they're going to get the split they thought would fix everything and i think we're getting that reality set in moment it is down and people aren't quite sure will the split fix everything. there is so many unknowns with the tariffs and with the relationship to taiwan and bringing manufacturing back to the u.s. there is no magic bullet here and i think that was the thing that putted pat out. he had a plan and he wanted to stick to the plan. my belief that the board felt the split would be more immediately profitable they're missing what they feel is the biggest boom in history with a.i. and not participating in a meaningful way. so they want it more and faster and it split but pat was the right guy to lead it is interesting and i know michelle and david and i think they'll do a good job but pat's plan needed more time and patience ran out. >> let's set the table on sales force as well. he's picking some fights

including with satya nadella and microsoft. there are claims that it is not as essential as it used to be. they got a deal with service now and with others. what do we need to see from this report >> jon, look, mark is one of the people that understands where the numbers sit. and he's historically been one that has beat and the street expects that we're looked at agent force. he clearly understands that the pivot is required and we're seeing it here at aws. here at aws and salesforce are deeply partnering. microsoft is making this route and bill mcdermott, they are going down this route. and they are making the question of how quickly they could pivot and they could use a data service model with in many of our applications and sales force like aws and others that people have called late to the party in a.i., in some ways, they have

this massive user base that they're going to be able to tap into the question mark and this is what 2025 and the a.i. boom is all about, could they tap into it and show meaningful revenues that will keep investors coming to the party keep investing in this boom. i think salesforce could do it because it is too hard to move off the platform but this is a challenge for mark and his team. >> david if i could ask you about intel again. if elon musk were to come in and take the helm of this company, what do you think he would do? >> that is a great question. first of all, i think elon will wo get lean. we saw what he did with twitter and x and he was able to make the cuts i think some people knew there was some bloat in intel. and pat knew it too. when you have that many engineers and relationships in the market like they do. just cutting really quickly is never an easy thing to do. but elon wouldn't care you see what he's doing with

doge and it is the same thing with intel and he would figure out a way to buy his way into this a.i. market you see nvidia running over $100 billion in gpu sales. they have to have a meaningful play there and he has to figure out a way to force the fabulous designers, qualcomms and broad comes, they need to be interdugging foundry there is always going to be question marks that if it is part of intel, is it trusted and that is why we go no matter how high they raise the prices >> daniel, in 2025, now we're ping ponging back and forth between chips and software what re the real markets of progress that you expect to see in a.i we're starting to see some of them customer wins, some government usage but how are separating those who

make claims to have advantage and those companies that actually do. >> yeah, i felt really strong about this for a while, jon. there have been a couple of tears. first it was the chip and then infrastructure and we've seen amy hood at microsoft talk about $10 billion against the 60 to $80 billion of capex being spent. this is not that incremental we moved you into the next product at a certain price of subscription and it happens to have a.i. features people want to know is it increasing retention and of course is it incrementally adding dollars to spend. so whether it is service nowond salesforce, are people spending more for agent force our valuation said they will but right now most of the a.i. use cases, it is efficiency, they're cutting costs. and it is got to be really clear to investors and i think the few companies that get that right, the sass companies, how they're keeping retention, are going to be the ones that will come out

on top in 2025. >> we'll keep an if eye on those numbers. thank you. >> thank you. and check out shares of zjk industrial today the stock is doubling up, 127% to about $14 it had been over a billion dollars in market cap as well early in the session it is a chinese company which announced her expanding collaboration with nvidia. they will send a team to focus on thele cooling systems and credo technology, and bank of america double upgrading the stock from buy and tripping the price target to $80 a share. it is trading at $69 this is after the company results were out after the bell earnings and retch beat guidance was raised b of a said they are poised to benefit because the cables are used in power efficient a.i. clusters. >> a touch from certain brands and names sending things higher. after the break, digger

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welcome back to power lunch. here is a quick glance at the markets in a holding pattern we do get the jobs report out friday morning the s&p is down a point and the nasdaq hit new highs earlier on and up 30. now when it comes to investing in artificial intelligence, could old school stocks offer some cutting-edge opportunities? my next guest scored big looking into the industrials last year today he's talking about his next three big industrial picks. and joining me now is tennis john jacques, from ocean part investments. it is great to you have here we showed a glimpse of some of the names, do these support the a.i. buildout as well? >> absolutely. and i think that what is important for investors to realize is that they need to bring agility and to really find value in the mark place.

we're over due for a market dislocation right now. and right now if you see that, that most people don't really understand, is that dislocatio and disruptions in market place is a feature and not a bug and also we are as an investor, we're wired in a certain way to basically focus on bubbles and dislocations and things of that sort and the companies that we're looking at right now, is really based on companies that are generating the power that is really needed to drive a lot of the -- of the a.i. in the market place right now. the one company that we like in particular is tallen i worked for the late michael price and he also said that you could find great opportunity for companies coming out of bankruptcy they structured last year. cash flow is growing 25% or so and they cleaned up the balance sheet. the stock is trading less than

14 times p.e. and cheaper than the market and they have enough cash in the balance sheet to buy back about 10% of the stock almost every other year. and this type of company is really not well-known in the market place and we think that buy next year or so, in 69 months, i think that could be added to the russell 1,000 or the s&p 500. so that is one of the companies that we think is going to do very well. they provide a lot of the power that they generate a lot of the a.i. movement. >> they're up 260% so they have done well. and the gross margin is not necessarily that steep so it is a lot of investor will be curious if it is too late clean harbor and qantas, they focus on waste amendment and recycle. they collect and dispose of various hazardous waste from various companies. we believe that this company,

the -- it is a fantastic job, just growing cash flow, they have a lot of cash on balance sheet to buy back stock. one division that we particularly like is the safety clean segment. this division based on recycles and refined oil. and we believe that given the new administration and what the new treasury with these three plus -- three, three, three plan, we believe there is a lot of oil being produced in this country and i think the backlog will grow. the other company that we like is qantas service. hey basically feed the customers of utilities these are very power hungry customers and utilities. they provide all of the specialty services for grid and communication infrastructure and what we really like about them, thera pure place they compete with companies like eaton, which have done well recently but if you could really want to

focus on really improving the grid and also communication infrastructure, qantas service is the one that we like here. >> and it is amazing to high bite the performance of the some of the industrial names. this is the sweet spot right now. i'm glad to hear you think maybe into next year as well dennis, thanks for joining us. well, coming up, what is miko strategies macro plan tcn ael saylor keeps buying bioibut the company is now valued as more than double what the crypto holdings are worth. we'll discuss more next. [cheerful music] [phone ringing] not all multimillionaires build their wealth the same way, you have... the fearless investor. the type a cpa. the boot strapper. the boot maker. hee-ha. but many do have something in common. we all trust schwab with our wealth. thanks to our award-winning service, low costs and transparent advice,

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welcome back to "power lunch. i'm kate rogers with your news update a forward judge dismissed the gun case against hunter biden

following the sweeping pardon. he was found for lying on a form to purchase a firearm by saying he was not a drug user he could have faced up to 25 years in prison. the dismiss comes a week from the president's son was to be sentenced a trial of a military veteran charges with putting a homeless man in a deadly choke hold on a subway rain last year. they are weighing charges genls daniel penny the defense said he was acting erratically and penny was trying to hold him for police but prosecutors say he used far too much force. and the centers for disease control said the deadly mcdonald's e. coli outbreak is over 104 people in 14 states were affected it was tracked to raw onions served on quarter pounders back to you. shares of micro strategy have been on a monster run

up over 500% in part or really all in part because ofity massive holdings of bitcoin the company is the largest corporate holder of the cryptocurrency they recently bought another 15,000 bitcoin for about $1.5 billion it is co-founder and executive chairman michael saylor joined "squawk box" this morning to explain the purchase. >> we sold $1.5 billion worth of stock backed by $500 million worth of bitcoin we bought back $1.5 billion of bitcoin. we captured nearly a billion dollars gain in the arbitrage. that we could do with equity day by day when we do it with debt, we issue $3 billion of debt that is backed by $600 million of bitcoin. it comes due in five years we pay 0% interest and can he apture the $2.4 billion in the arbitrage gain up front but then over the course of the five years, we

double or we quadruple the investment because we're buying an asset that is appreciating faster than the s&p. >> appreciating faster than the s&p. we discuss the company as evaluation tom lee, welcome, global visors and cnbc contributor and herb from herb on the street. with you two keyed up, i don't know where this is going to go my two questions is number one what happens with the price of bitcoin goes down. number two, why would people pay a premium this company holds when they could buy the bitcoin itself or short it you know what i'm saying tom, go ahead. >> well, kelly, both of those questions that you asked have been asked about miko strategies since inception. they've pursued this strategy for many years now and i think those have about-have been skepl of following this bitcoin

standard, would have said well you're paying a premium so you should short the stock and there are famous short seller reports over the last couple of years suggesting that and the stock has been a stupendous performer. i think one of the things that investors are missing, it is clear that there is a pretty active treasury strategy that micro strategy is using. they are using available capital and liquidity to do some opportunistic buying and capital management around the bitcoin position but i think more importantly, they're really opening up the fixed income market to get to offer instruments that have derivative exposure to bitcoin they're instruments have been among the best performing corporate bonds over the last few years. so if you're look at funds that are trying, that i could earn 4% on treasury or a chance to buy corporate bonds at 50 basis points wider, these have been

tremendous performers. and so does that mean he's taking advantage of the bond market well it is showing you that the high volatility of bitcoin and he talks about this, is actually something that he's allowed in the capital markets to lower his cost of financing. so he's arbitraging the volatility of bitcoin to borrow money at a lowerer cost. it is a great strategy. >> the only thing i would say about this, these are like future -- they're product. they're kind of a product in the world of options or debt markets or what have you this feels like it is less about a company, to that point, if bitcoin continues to go higher, i guess none of this is an issue. if it stops, herb, what do you think? and again, i still don't understand why this would in the long run would be worth twice the value of the underlying bitcoin in. >> well, first of all, i'm a huge fan of tom lees so what tom said goes for the

way he thinks and a strategy and i'm not a bitcoin or a micro strategy expert. i'm here that you could tell you that there is a whole group of people that have a different view on this because they're not so focused on it that they -- people consider this -- i put up a twitter, i put up something on twitter a while back, a week ago or so after saylor was on "squawk box," i said we're talking about a pyramid on a pyramid. and i had more than close to a million views on this thing. the biggest thing i had ever -- that i've ever done that has been seen by people on twitter or x or whatever you want to call it. and they're all -- half of them were screaming at me saying what do you mean. if i said speculation on top of speculation and the other half were saying i'm with you but the point is, is it worth it it you believe that the bottom line here is if you believe that bitcoin is headed to where so many smart people think it is headed, over some point in time

and willing to ride the volatility then this is a levered bet on that like a levered etf, and you own it and you would put a big value on it for that because you're going to make so much more money. >> tom lee, bitcoin in smo ways reminded me of real estate and i don't mean any particular place. the overall general idea is it tends to go up and if you buy at the wrong time there is leverage involved and you could lose your shirt. michael saylor is gambling with the house money at this point. he's been very right for a very long time and made billion dollars, but past performance is no guarantee of future results as we like to say. >> that is correct i mean, that is the nature of equity markets because stocks don't provide any floor. no matter how much people think there is a floor and a stock, there isn't. i mean witness the sell-offs on stocks that disappoint

so is micro strategy, the fact that the stock could go down makes it any worse investment than intel or any numerous names this year. like wing stop, which had an ernst miss i just would say we're almost asking the wrong question. because what micro strategies is doing, not only are they offering you exposure to bitcoin, they are funding this with zero cost convertible instruments that have on -- when you look at the option value, actually are offering tremendous value. if you try to buy miko strategy, they're more expensive than the controversial bonds. >> well we have to go in just a minute so i want to get herbs last thoughts as well. herb, i think i've learned over time, you know, we don't invest in individual stocks those of us who are working for cnbc but you can't trade on someone

else's conviction. you have to have your own conviction because if you're trading on someone else's conviction, when it goes down, what do you have got. you have to believe in it for yourself isn't that some of what this is. you have to believe in bitcoin like really, really if you're buying micro strategy? >> yeah, absolutely. because, look, i listen to what tom said, but let's face this, this is speculation. at this stage it is a speculative bet. and to say anything that, i think the bulls would agree with that it is just a matter of duration. so you have to deal with that level of speculation but other than that it is a big echo chamber trying to sort of peddle the -- what they think will happen and right now we have a lot of -- as my friend peter at water saying people feeling vulnerable like they've never felt before. but guess what, this reminds me of 2021 in so many ways.

just because it is -- we are -- i won't say peak fomo on bitcoin and on micro strategy. but this is very reminiscent to what we've seen in the past. and right now so many people are thinking, gee, i ought to be in that and that is the point you have to say, there is potential risk here. >> tom, quickly, what would tell you that this company has really passed -- some people mentioned the collapse of ftx a couple of years ago but the stock is highly valued than it was back then, when it weathered that event. what would tell you, that -- maybe a 20% pullback in bitcoin. what would tell you that the footing here is short or do you think that is not the point? >> well there is an anchoring that micro strategies can't trade at an excessive premium to bitcoin. that is one. but second would be the scarcity if we saw that mag 7 adopt the strategy, then you'd probably see the premium diminish on a micro strategy but as you know, there are very

few companies that are do adopting their strategy. >> right it is hard to reduce that value because others think that his idea is to get others to buy it as well. gentleman, you brought it. thank you. we hope to revisit this. tom lee and herb greenberg on micro strategy. >> i bet we do revisit it. well rumor is swirling that president-elect trump could take fannie and freddie o outf federal conservatorship. we'll hear from an insider of the massive implications for the mortgage market next humana medicare advantage plans. carry this card and

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welcome back to "power lunch. some big headlines over at blackrock today. with an administration to expand into private credit. leslie picker is here with the details. this is hottest thing in town. >> really interesting deal perhaps one the most interesting deals we've seen in the financial services space in quite sometime blackrock with the big bet on private credit acquiring hps for $12 billion and in an all stock deal the combination creates a behemoth with $220 billion in asset making block rock the

fifth largest manager. plaque blackrock expected it to double by 2030. that bull case according to blackrock is driven by the notion that market forces and technology and regulation all pushing activity towards private credit which some see as a more efficient way of doing business than syndicated lending conducted by banks blackrock not alone in the thinking state street said it is looking for acquisitions or minority stakes to fortify its private credit offers. and they have become popular among banks. but skeptics are iful. they say it is indicative of a bubble and will lead to a reckoning. in the meantime public investors seem to be applauding the strategy look at the shares up more than 2% higher today as well as if recent weeks as the news leaks that this transition was imminent and look no further than the year-to-date performance of private credit firms blue owl and aries

relative to black rock to see why the ladder is making such a big push fees have driven black rock to do three major acquisitions this year the other two being infrastructure firm gip and private markets data provider pre-quinn. so a lot of blackrock money being put into a fuzzy corner of the market. >> a good question for investors to keep in mind, how could this go wrong, for some of the people going all in on private credit. >> i mean, there is dpsh in terms of deals, there is obviously integration risk and that is why you don't see that many deals in asset management you don't see that many in alternative asset management as well pick book said that this year we have seen the largest on record, more than doubling the prior record of deals thanks to the big ones from black rock

how could this go wrong. a lot of the newer managers don't have the work out credentials that you see at traditional lenders. so that could be something to watch for. and then there is also the question of too much capital chasing too few things. >> total lirks ly. >> and that is a huge problem and that is why you see more private credit moving into investment grade because there is more supply there and that is a nascent place for them. >> do they support a lot of private equity deals as well, private credit >> oh, yes >> it is been a challenged space the last few years with the rates and all of the rest of it. >> was talking to sources close to this deal, we do hope to see an up swing in the m&a activity which could foster additional private credit deals which would give more supply of deal activity for these managers to -- to totally foster but we've been hearing the pipeline is full for sometime so, we'll see if it

materialized. >> thank you. fedde reddy may and fannie pushed to recapitalize and release them but the pandemic got in the way now there is growing chatter it is a priority in the second trump term diana joins us now. >> the conservatorship war never meant to be stopped. so i smoke with mark cap ab rea in the first trump administration and the architect of the recap and release plan. >> we literally spent millions of dollars on plans. we have two paths to make investors feel that something is risk free. path one is congress comes in and creates a guarantee. tried that route and it doesn't happen unlikely to happen the other route is how do you

build up these companies in such a way that the balance sheets are strong enough in the quality of the assets are strong enough that you get close to being risk free >> well his plan was 8% capital on the balance sheet in front of the mbs and increase credit quality on borrowers now the gsc have been building considerable capital recently but the pandemic cost them billions in bailouts for borrows. i spoke with mark zandi at moody would said without an explicit gov guarantee on the fannie and freddie, mortgage rates would go up 75 to 100 basis points and more for credit worthy borrows and trump just wanted to boost the stock prices for wealthy shareholders like bill acman they're already way up since the election but he disagrees. >> it is important to remember that at the end of the day, anything that happens to shareholders is incidental i don't believe anybody in this administration is looking to help them or hurt them

>> but he admitted this will-s not high on the president-elect's list zandi said they stay in conservatorship and privatization is a solution looking for a problem. >> with so much at stake in the house market right now diana thank you so much. at&t is laying out a plan to free ubiiom llns in catch and double the fiber availability. we'll trade that next. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network for small business. ♪♪ i sold a pillow!

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jump! down under, g'day is the start of every good adventure. so, what are you waiting for? come and say g'day. (♪♪) today is giving tuesday. a global effort to increase generosity in many ways including charitable giving. yet new research shows many americans have reduced giving this year as a direct result of the economy and their financial situation. sharon epperson joins us with more >> well, jon, most americans want to give the vast majority, 78%, say charitable giving it one of the of the core values according to a wells fargo survey that finds that 29% of americans report they've given less to charity this year compared to the year before

and 51% of americans feel they don't have enough money to give to charity at all. with economic pressure from the rising cost of living, fewer people are giving. according to the 2024 giving usa report, total charitable giving reached a high of over $557 billion last year with a bulk of donations, 67% coming from individuals. yet, individual giving is shrinking, part of that pie. down 2.4% in 2023 reflecting some of the economic uncertainty giving by foundations on the other hand has been ott rise we'll have more at the cnbc financial summit next tuesday december 10th on economic trends and emerging risk, all of this to help advisers better serve their clients. scan the qr code there to register or visit cnbc.com/fa. >> sharon, if i can, it is

interesting to get this read because we were just talking about the red book consumer spending numbers up 7% and there has been other positive data points but this is giving us a different perspective on who is spending. >> today many have said they have pulled back when they were perhaps more flush in terms of their zegsary income during the pandemic, not commuting and not having as many expenses, they felt like there was more of an incentive to give and then some were also mentioning the fact that they are not going to be able to get a tax deduction because they're going to take the stand art deduction and while you shouldn't give just based on a tax break, some are saying without it, maybe that is not quite enough of an incentive to give right now when wallets are tight. >> that tells us something about investor's outlook. >> a lot of folks are looking at what can we do if they do have enough money to give or they have investments that are appreciated and they don't

want to pay capital gains tax. >> that is one strategy that investors are looking at in terms of doing that. but jane wells said that it is a time that people are not giving as much, they're not donating as many hours there is not the same engagement and that is something that many folks are trying to figure out how do we improve that, companies are doing it through matching gift contributions. >> sharon, thanks. we'll appreciate it. sharon epperson today. let's move along to three stock lunch. three key names making headlines toepd. we welcome back michael far to do the honors today. let's start with at&t. up a nice 4% and they're having a good year honestly they just revealed a plan to achieve $18 billion in free cash flow by 2027 and a blueprint to enhance the 5g network and the shares are up 40% this year. >> it is a great year for at&t and i'm a little mixed on 24 one, kelly, because it has done

so well. it is hard to buy something after it run up 40% and yet the runway for at&t still looks okay does it have another 10% or 20%? i'm not sure but i know it matters what you pay for a stock. that is really, really important. what you pay and your future returns will depend on it so not outrageous. stock could be higher from here. i would find somewhere else to invest my money. but if you have it, hold it. i do remember going back in the 80s when at&t is the only stock had you to check for the dow jones industrial average would you yell across and tell what it telephone doing. it is up 3/8 we're having a good day. art cashin and the friends of fermentation for art he was the at&t guy. >> next up, tesla, ceo elon musk

losing his bid to have his $56 billion pay package reinstated delaware judge upholding a ruling in a case brought forth by tesla shareholders who accused the pay package of being deeply flawed in the process michael. >> john, i'm so glad that you're coming to me on this one and not kelly. because last time i was on, i said sell it and the thing has gone straight up listen, as -- look, as an investment, as an investment, tesla makes no sense trillion dollars market cap. they make $1.8 million cars. ford, gm and stellantis makes more cars an this is four times the capitalization it is a trillion dollars company. what are they going to do to grow earnings. this is a hope and prayer company. if you want to trade it and think you could get in and out bitcoin feels the same way to me

because i don't know that there is any there, there underneath. >> he want going to call you out. because i didn't remember that so thank you for bring it up >> you're too nice, kelly. >> let's move along to u.s. steel with the president-elect repeating his vow to block nippon steel's planned purchase of the company that has the shares down 8%. what do you think? >> you know, there is nothing wrong with u.s. steel. there is just nothing really right with u.s. steel. this is a slow growth, making a little bit of money. they don't really have a dividend or an upside. nippon, that acquisition, merger or whatever you want to call it, it was a bit of a hail mary and hope otherwise, they've been behind the curve and they're not going anywhere there is nothing wrong with it but u.s. steel is not the place as far as i'm concerned. >> all right, michael. thanks for that. you want to leave us with parting thought. market ends higher or lower from

where we are right now. >> higher and god bless art cashin what a great gift he was to all of us. >> thank you for saying him. we haven't gotten the chance yet. i think of him saying stay alert, stay nimble and that is true now as it ever was. michael thanks >> s&p went green. positive so far so it is an exciting last hour of trade. scott wapner live from post 9. a look ahead for your money as one strategist takes this target for stocks to the highest on the street wells fargo's chris harvey joins us on why he says another great year is in store for your money. oz perilman is here with a new trick to leave us wondering how did he do that in the meantime, let's show you the score card with 60 minutes to go in regulation. outside of the mega caps not a lot of green on the screen the s&p is barely