throughout the day. you will hear a lot of stuff throughout this market day and we will have him on set tomorrow to talk through the biggest highlights of what he is seeing throughout the day. we got the 80 p number today, it was weaker than it had been . >> out of here. >> time for "squawk on the street." ♪ ♪ welcome to "squawk on the street." stocks take aim at the 56th record high of today, after a stellar session for tech earnings last night between salesforce, okta. powell speaks a deal book. we begin with crm. shares are surging, as the company highlights its ai growth prospects. >> openai's co-founder and ceo, yes, sam altman, he's set to

appear on the stage at deal book. we'll take you there live. shares of eli lilly getting a weight loss boost, saying its head-to-head trials bound its drug brings about greater weight loss than wegovy. let's begin with salesforce. the company's current quarter sales forecast and q3 revenue beat expectations, last night on "mad money," they said the ai platform is off and running. >> we are witnessing the greatest transformation in business in our history. this is a moment in time that we are seeing the creation of digital labor, and it's amazing what's happened at salesforce. >> jim, it's already at 200 deals. >> yeah, we only had a week where there was agent force. there could be thousands of customers. this was a remarkable call. what he's basically saying is

that we don't have enough orders in the world, this will take care of it. the digitized workforce, the idea that there is basically going to be a whole new supply of labor is rather extraordinary. david, i know there's many things going on this morning, but i did feel that mark was outlining some of those -- outlining a workforce that is side by side. we have had the digitized labor, okay, and real labor. and it's going to fill in the incredible gap that we have for all these jobs that nobody really wants. >> right, this digital labor force. as for the company itself for the stock, coming into the quarter, you know, you had workday that did not put up a great number. so i don't know how many investors chose to perhaps hedge or be short the name coming in. >> that's a good call, david. >> you're talking about better than expected revenue growth at

9%, let's call it. some anticipated perhaps 8% or deceleration. so that's the setup, jim, in some way. >> you couldn't be more right. i started the conversation with mark last night on "mad money," i said i didn't expect this. i thought it was going to be the next quarter. >> well, also because they're just getting started on their agent force journey, so to speak. he said just 200 new accounts toward the end of the quarter. >> but he's going to have a thousand accounts. maybe 2,000 people. >> do we know what they spend per account? are these small deals or -- >> i don't know. that's a great question, because you have to land really big deals, and the ones he 's talkig about is a giant recruiter, with a huge number of inquiries.

but sharp ninja is an appliance company where you call them and there is nobody right now. fedex, nobody right now. carl, again, because there are other stories, but i do think this is the beginning of something very, very big, and he even said -- mark said is going to change the gdp. and a lot of us, because there's just so many jobs that they don't have, they can't answer as many questions. but this will change that. not a decline in the labor force, but increase. >> as for the name itself, jim, there is a point this year where it was down for the year almost 20%. now it's up 40%. >> one of the things that's amazing by mark, he comes on in the good and bad. he brought out the new product, there was a gap. now this thing is now bringing

up all of their different clouds, and that matters tremendously. but i think what may matter more than anything else is that mark's taking on the gorilla. he's taking on microsoft in a way that is not -- it's direct, it's rambunctious, and it's, frankly, disconcerting in the sense that if he's right, then co-pilot's a bust, microsoft co-pilot. who uses co-pilot? i mean, auto pilot. mark is -- i don't know what will happen. it's not a -- mark's a bit of a david versus goliath? but how did that work, the david/goliath? >> it worked out okay. >> at least for david. i never short microsoft. there's so many good things happening in microsoft, but i think the idea of -- mark is

saying does anybody really use co-pilot? a lot of us want to try to disable the stuff that microsoft is throwing at us. you remember at the turn of the century they had that product they jammed down their throat? they had the tie-in with the browser. it's kind of like that. that's what he's saying, you don't want that thing. we have to hear from microsoft and i would like to have them on tomorrow morning. >> jim, meanwhile, you have meta -- >> is it deal book? >> they're not. let's get him and get dave. >> alphabet is a -- >> bezos, david ricks -- >> david ricks -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> speaking of lily, they say their new drug was more

effective than wegovy in a head-to-head trial. the study shows that zepbound achieved a weight loss of 20%, compared to 13% for wegovy. you're talking about an extra 17 pounds. >> if only it had enough zepbound to meet the demand. i want to preface two things. wegovy's got something similar in the pipeline, but if david ricks is at deal book and talks about what i think is basically game, set, match. this reminds me so much, carl, i remember when merck came out with their drug in 1987 and everyone said merck was king. out of nowhere, warner lambert had lipitor and got caught by pfizer, and pfizer troupsed merck. could this be like wegovy, and

eli lilly comes up with the equivalent of lipitor. >> the market seems to be large enough you can't say one is truly not going to -- one is going to benefit completely opposed to both. >> you're absolutely right. >> and you have amgen, which is going to make an argument -- i know, you're skeptical -- that their recent trials were positive and when people stayed on it, the side effects became much easier to deal with. >> would you prefer nausea or no nausea? you pro nausea? i'm from philadelphia, how do you even say that? >> again, we don't know if it's going to be continued in the trump administration, but remember -- >> they favor nausea? >> no, the potential for it to be covered by medicare and medicaid. very important. >> it is. >> my point being that the

patient population is enormous. we know the percentage of americans who are considered obese is gigantic. >> right. >> and so you can make an argument that, yeah, we need everything. >> maybe we need everything, but i don't know, carl. to me, there's only one winner right here right now. and it's zepbound by eli lilly. i would love to hear from david ricks. >> and we will. the nbc cfo council is underway. >> let's get right into it. the question is one way to think about policy is how you balance risk. and things have maybe changed a little bit since we last talked in november. tell me how you judge the balance of risks between inflation potentially coming back or stalling, and potential weakness in the job market? >> maybe i should start on the

positive side, which is i think inflation's come down a bunch, and i'm encouraged with where it's headed. a lot of people on the labor side were worried there was a cliff there, and that also seems to not be the case. both sides of our mandate, we seem to be heading in the right direction. today is no promise of tomorrow, so you have to think hard about where you're going. i see positives on both sides, but i see risks on both sides. on the inflation side, we talk about the progress, but we're still in the mid 2s, not at 2, so we're still above our target. on the employment side, you can't ignore last month's jobs report. 12,000 jobs is not good. we'll get another jobs report on friday. you know, there is risk when hiring is down in this country that eventually job growth slows. so both of those are risks and i'm attentive to both of them. >> the chairman talked about this notion of recalibration. everybody has their own interpretation of that, but talked about adjusting the

policy rate somewhat separate from the data. do you agree with that interpretation, and second of all, are we still in a recalibration mode where you're adjusting to get to a point where you are sort of closer? >> in our september meeting, to me the logic was straightforward, which was inflation was a lot closer to target, unemployment was pretty close to what most people think is maximum employment. the one number that seemed out of sync was the feds fund rate. so the notion of recalibrating the fed fund rate made sense to me. i do think that's the process. so that's your second question, i guess, which is did that make sense to me? it is a judgment call when you're sort of done with recalibrating and ready to start normalizing. to me, normalizing is a slower, more careful path to bring rates down to neutral. i think that depends a lot on

where you think neutral is. it's like a unicorn that no one has ever seen because you can't measure it. even the best models have a 200 basis point standard error. if you look at the fmoc analysis, we have people as low as 2.5 and people as high as 3.735. so it's hard to know that. but based on where you are, that is one determinenant. the other is where you see the risk. even in the next couple of weeks we'll learn more. we'll get another jobs report. we're going to get another round of inflation data. will it look more like the 12-month numbers or the last couple months? so there's a lot of information still in front of us. >> i get that, but are we still recalibrating? are we still coming down because you need to be in a place that's closer to neutral, irrespective of the data coming up? >> that's a judgment we have to make. it does depend -- the story that

says we want to get to not very restrictive but somewhat restrictive because we're not yet at our mandate but we're closer than where we were, that story is very clear. i'm sure my colleagues have different points of view in terms of what is somewhat restrictive enough. >> we'll come back to that. i want to ask you how do you process the potential changes in fiscal policy that could be coming? >> we released a cfo survey this morning, which richmond does with the atlanta fed and duke university. pretty interesting set of outcomes. the cfos in that survey, and if any of you would like to participate, we're open for business. we did this survey before the election, half the survey, and half the survey after the election. you know, what you saw was the business leaders in that survey optimistic about the state of the u.s. economy. >> that's the cnbc cfo council.

we'll continue to monitor headlines, as we are awaiting powell deal book midday today. meantime, we are watching unh. there's been a flurry of headlines. what we know is that the web cast, and they were presenting today, was stopped for what they're calling a very serious matter, correct? >> very serious medical situation with one of their team members. it seems to be a tragic occurrence outside the hilton. that's based on other news sources, wpix, local news here in new york, "the new york post," reporting that brian thompson, i believe, who runs the company's manage care, so -- had been shot and killed. that is the reports again. we have not gotten an official confirmation from united health care, nor from the police in new york. but it appears to be, according

to other reports, that it was a targeted killing that occurred prior to obviously the beginning of their investor day here in midtown we should say, which we were going to get to at some point in terms of discussing a bit of a revision and guidance from the company. obviously, this supersedes that. and now that investor day, as you might imagine, has been suspended. >> we're going to hear from bertha coombs in a minute. there had been some headlines that appeared erroneous, which pertains to who exactly was targeted in what appears to be this targeted attack. bertha coombs is with us. bertha, what do we know at the moment? >> reporter: all we know at the moment, according to the nypd, there was a fatal shooting outside the hilton this morning at about 6:45 a.m. now, police officials have not identified the victim, but several reports have said that it was brian thompson, who is

the ceo of united health's health insurance side. that's united health care. he has been ceo of that unit for some time. would have been expected to be presenting today. the company did start its investor day web cast a little bit late this morning. they did make no mention of it, but as the headlines began to cross this morning over the last few minutes, they did stop the presentation, saying that they're afraid that some of you may know, we're dealing with what they call a serious medical situation with one of our team members. as a result, executives said, i'm afraid we're going to have to bring to close the event today. we have reached out to united health, but as you can imagine, they are in the middle of this crisis, and at this point have not issued any kind of comment or confirmation on the situation. we don't know what the

circumstances of the shooting may have been, but according to a police report, the suspect shot brian thompson, according to reports, and then fled on foot. again, this is clearly an extraordinary situation and one that we are waiting to hear what the company says as this develops. back over to you. >> bertha, appreciate that. it is horrible news. you don't want to look immediately to the share reaction, but on some of the earlier headlines, which did say the ceo had been shot, shares were down a couple percent. andrew witty is the ceo of the full company. >> he's a brilliant man, united health being the most important company in the health business. david, you know that there is -- i don't even want to speculate, but there are elements of this

particular industry that people aren't crazy about. >> one thing i have confidence in is that the nypd is going to find whoever did this. >> a masked assailant fled down 6th avenue. i don't think he'll get very far. >> we'll get more answers to what is a tragic circumstance. and was planning on spending a little time discussing unh because of a bit of a change in their guidance. but the stock is actually -- was knocked down this morning. they, like so many others, have been dealing with a medical loss ratio that is higher as a result of seniors using the health care system more frequently this year. but obviously, this tragic circumstance supersedes all of that. >> we would have been talking about, there's -- how do you pay for wegovy and zepbound and what's going to happen? and where's medicare, where are these private insurers?

bloomberg has had some good stuff about that. >> obviously, we are thinking of the company and get your more headlines as we learn more this morning. still to come, openai's chief sam altman is set to take the stage today. we'll continue after a short break. stay with us. i can't believe you corporate types are still at it. just stop calling each other rock stars. and using workday to put finance and h.r. on one platform. tim, you are a rock star. using responsible ai doesn't make you a rock star.

it kinda does. you are not rock stars. (clears throat) okay. most of you are not rock stars. oooh. data driven insights, and large language models. oh, that's so rock roll. it is, right. he gets it. yeah.

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if you're just joining us this morning, we continue to monitor reports that brian thompson, the ceo of unh's health care group, has been shot and killed in midtown manhattan

today. the company was set to present on its investor day. they halted their web cast. thompson is a 20-year veteran of the company. that's about all we know at the moment. we're going to continue to monitor the reports and get you the latest as soon as we're able. jim, you are watching some names today. >> yeah. i'm watching foot locker. mary stillen, is as good a ceo as you can imagine. they are facing what i regard as a very challenged environment, because this is one of those companies where she did make some progression. she made some prognostications, and they didn't happen, and i've got to tell you, carl, i was thinking that nike might be doing better in china, but i think that nike may be hard to follow here. i think that the industry is -- they had to change the ceo.

foot locker will get through this. i'm sure mary is not happy with herself or the company right now. comps guided down. this is not a good quarter. >> nike was down in sympathy this morning, so the argument that her ulta magic is not working this time, not her fault? >> i would say it's taking longer than expected. they still had comps up 1.5. 33 cents, they were looking for 41, greater discounts. black friday, last woke's been good. foot locker is taking longer to turn around, because i think that industry is being challenged. it's because what's happened is, you have hoka, you have new balance, you have on, and these are companies that are attacking nike, but nike is where the money was. the jordans were where the money was, and where the money was is

diminishing. nike is so tarnished, it's incredible. i think the new ceo is going to get his head around it. this thing was, i don't know what they were doing at nike. >> we have a retail analyst join us yesterday, and at the very end of her back and forth, she indicated nike still being very promotional right now. and not, you know, not necessarily in the premium category. >> if you go to the one in midtown, the big display is nike. and nike is just -- they don't have a horse in this, and that impacts foot locker more than anything else. >> we mentioned crm, jim. it is worth mentioning marvell, a company you featured just monday and you were quite positive on it. you pointed to some insider buying. the quarter from marvell was a

strong one, and more importantly, they, for the first time in a while, have a very bullish ai related outlook. by the way, their ceo is considered a superstar, i guess. >> matt murphy is a superstar. >> is staying at marvell. there was some speculation about the intel job. he's not going there. but more importantly, this is a company that is helping amazon, for example, create their own ai chips. >> yes, they are. >> there's a long story in "the wall street journal" today detailing amazon's announcement of a super computer powered by marvell is intimately involved in that. >> yes. okay, that is absolutely true. can i also tell you that marvell has these companies, they have meta. they have google. they have microsoft. they are in a game, set, match.

everybody else can make competitors to some degree to nvidia. however, they have nvidia. so it's like, you know, this is -- [ inaudible ] [ bell tolling ] >> there are things happen thing the ai world that are extraordinary. it's meta, google. but meta's doing remarkable things, but aws, i don't want to put them as challenging, everybody just needs more chips. it's too big. all those things, go listen to bennyhoff's call. the digital labor is going to be the craze of the future. we're going to be using robots in hospitals, robots making

beds, cleaning rooms in hotels. wherever we're having a hard time finding workers, it's going to go digital. >> it's been a story in factories, in grocery store aisles for years. it's going to expand. here at the big board, allied financial, it's go fund me, a community powered fund raising platform. the indexes, we have seen a breakdown in consumer. some short cycle industrials. but it's all being made up for in these mag seven chip names. >> i think that there's been a lot of speculation that everyone spent too much on nvidia. if they could buy more nvidia, every one of these companies would be doing much better. you need this. everyone is focused on ai. not enough on accelerating computing. ai generative ai is fantastic, but you need computing so fast to do what they are doing. david, you know the big

breakthrough was the speed with which nvidia is pushing. they just work faster. so there's no latency. >> right. >> you speak, they come right back. >> latency is an important factor. >> people feel that amazon -- it's very funny. amazon, please help us out. >> but there is this belief, jim, that to the extent that you may not need nvidia's gpus, you can design your own chips for your specific need. it may not be as powerful, perhaps not quite as efficient, but they can still be something that does what you need them to do. that's where marvell comes in, helping in terms of this collaboration with accelerated infrastructure for ai and the cloud. by the way, that was just an announcement from december 2nd. >> i think marvell, they're doing the custom design for

chips. >> they are the two that sort of right now, it's a duopoly. >> that stock is very funny, david. there are these rumors that we and everyone else has propagated that matt is going to leave marvell. matt points out, why would i leave marvell, which is a $96 billion company, to join intel, which is also a $96 billion company. >> doesn't make sense. this is a company whose revenue growth is accelerating. that's what happens when your revenue growth accelerates. >> marvell, remember, i said that matt bought $1 million worth of stock. you don't do that unless you think there's -- it's not like

estate planning. no, it was buy, because he wanted to make even more money matt is the most competitive guy i've come across. very exciting times. we're seeing things that should mts be happening. we're seeing companies that go up and up. and jensen told you this was going to happen, and now people are saying, he's right. he is still the god father. >> it's interesting to hear jensen say there's no guarantee we won't be in intel's position. that's how the chip cycle works. >> i'm impressed by the humility of these people. they're very hungry and they're always not afraid but concerned. and i have to tell you, microsoft must be concerned. >> that's the second time you've

said that. >> and you turn on your pc, there's like teams. david, could you please tell me how -- >> that has been stuck in your craw for years. >> can you help me? i'm asking for help to find a way to block microsoft -- >> i got it. >> thank you, david. >> there you go. hp was on. you know what? we have a really good printer. >> the ai pc is a bust. >> and ubs said it might be october before we get a new look. >> it's too early. it's early. >> it's early. >> it's early for the jets, it's early for the mets and it's early for them. >> very early for the mets.

>> how about the jets, early for them? it's early for saquon to come back to the giants. >> it could be another 20 years perhaps of rebuilding. we could maybe force our owner to sell. but i don't think that's likely. >> all i can tell you is that microsoft, if they're not concerned, that would be a mistake. it would be a suboptimal way -- it would be ill advised to not be concerned. >> you mentioned nike a moment ago. of course, leads to a discussion about travails in china. this gm wrightdown, as they wright down some of these chinese joint ventures -- >> when you listened to phil lebeau this morning, it was amazing. if you're in china, you're getting crushed. the question is, is tesla getting crushed? that's not clear. gm was down $2. a lot of people figured it was

true. it's just very hard to make money there. so i think you have to say, you know what? it was a great in fact at one time. i don't think people realize -- i don't know, you know, things are not what you think in china. the consumer is not making that comeback we thought they would. >> i don't know that people expect the consumer to make a comeback. >> there's a lot of stimulus, but where is it going? >> the chinese produce so much, and so much of it therefore has to find its way to offshore markets, because of the lack of consumer demand domestically. >> do you think dollar tree could change that? >> the question/issue, when will they start to become a consumer-led economy? certainly not now. given the indebtedness at the local level, the property problems, it puts people more at risk and unwilling to spend in a way that they might have.

so, yeah. then you have all these issues involving china. it's not just into europe with evs, but even with many of its trading partners in the region. other developing countries where they're still sending them goods where they thought the chinese would have moved up the value chain. >> and stihl is not something you should be dumping. there's an interesting market in "the wall street .journal." we haven't seen -- >> you mention navaro every day. i'm sure you hear from him. i know you do. >> yes, i do talk with peter navarro. >> i'm sure you do. well, the point is that they wanted treasury and commerce, didn't fight for either one, and that the president-elect wants wall street sort of respect on

the word that the markets will not respond well. >> maybe there's a chance there's an olive branch here. the chinese responded to our sanctions with something that was very benign. we're not going to -- we're going to cut off minerals you don't even have? >> i think it's interesting, but you talked about musk's influence and the fact that he can be a constructive voice, given the importance that china represents for tesla. all that said, we have to wait and see. we went through four years of a trump administration previously, and it's very difficult to know. >> look, if truth social could say, i've never been more angry at the chinese. so you're right. >> if you look back at there, and there were negotiations, obviously they -- when you reach

a new trade agreement with canada and mexico, the chinese never did -- carl, did they ever get out of those agricultural products? >> no, and we subsidized a lot of farmers here as a result. >> i do think when you look at the equivalence that the administration, the soon-to-be administration is putting the canadian 45 pounds of fentanyl versus the 20,000 tons of fentanyl, i find the 2 million immigrants that came from mexico versus the 46,000 that came from canada, to make these be the same, i have troubles with that. >> there's also the added element of the number one importer of fentanyl are americans through legal channels. >> i'm not trudeau, but i would question when the president said why don't you become a 51st state? given the fact that they fought with us in afghanistan of all

places, i regarded that if i were trudeau as somewhat insulting. but i need a comedian to find out where it's really funny. we have a comedian. >> yes, one of our state managers is a comedian. talking about you, bill. >> 51st state, canada, is that funny? >> he's not going to get involved in this, jim. >> that's a mistake. if lenny bruce was here, ladies and gentlemen, lenny bruce. >> you're the only funny man. >> do you think the 51st thing was -- that may have been regarded as insulting to canada. >> eli lilly shares are up, guys. outperforming its competitor wegovy when it comes to weight loss. >> it does matter. again, i keep coming back to this data. rick's had the capability, does he have enough? >> he's saying they do now have

enough. >> will you have a script? >> david in the dealbook -- >> do you have a script? >> extravaganza? i do not know what mr. ricks will discuss, but my guess is, andrew is aware of the news. >> i've got to go to carl here. >> we wanted to bring you the latest, reports now that brian thompson had been taken in critical condition to mt. sinai. our understanding is that he is deceased. this is a piece of tape that we'll look at the web cast and when they did announce that they were breaking off that communication. take a listen. >> i'm afraid that we -- some of you may know, we're dealing with a very serious medical situation with one of our team members, and as a result, i am afraid we're going to have to bring to a close the event for the day. i'm sure you'll understand. we're going to go offline now

from the broad cast, and we'll share with you to update you with all the information. i apologize bringing things to a close, but i hope you'll understand. >> thompson was 50 years old. cnn saying that he was walking towards the hilton in midtown in a suit and tie, and then a gunman, according to investigators who spoke to cnn, opened fire from about 20 feet away and fired multiple times, striking him. he was shot in the chest, taken to mt. sinai where he was pronounced dead. that's just heartbreaking news. >> that is frightening and terrible. i mean, i know, look, we can't -- having been a homicide reporter for many years, you don't know. >> well, again, i am -- i feel fairly certain the nypd will find whoef did ver did this. but just a tragic situation. >> it's very difficult to talk

about. >> just shocking. >> again, jim, while we're here, oil is a story. opec plus meeting tomorrow. there's some discussion on whether this cease-fire is wobbly or not. and even with bearish inventories we got above 0 today. >> i think a lot of the big oils are undervalued, and there ease going to be no pause. the president-elect will say we'll export it, use natural gas as a weapon. these are all things he said. one of the things that we were talking about, china, dollar free better than expected. family dollar doing better. a new cfo coming, but that was a bit of good news for a company that's been challenged by how much it cost to -- how can you keep things at a dollar? and maybe the best story of the morning is chipotle.

they put price increases in -- >> up 2% nationwide now. which the company now confirms. interesting comments out of walmart about inflation. i think we had a full screen or a piece of sound. basically, there's been a little tick-up in inflation in dairy and eggs. but general merchandise is back to low single digits prepandemic. >> there's just individual elements up in food. the stories i've read do not capture the idea that it's still -- that we did have peak inflation. now, one thing that is -- i don't want to -- i'm just going to put it out there. campbell's. mark clause, one of my absolute favorite executives, a huge eagles fan, which is how i've always bonded with him. i like the jason kelce soup. we just root for the eagles. he resigned to be the president of the commanders, the washington commanders.

>> very interesting. we had him on not long ago talking about the deal they had signed with campbell's to offer various products in the stadium. >> i have to tell you, who doesn't want to be the president of a football team? however, i would have preferred it be the eagles. >> you're just going to be able to talk football tonight, which is all you want to do. >> the owner of the commanders is -- >> josh harris, one of the founders of apollo and very active in sports, not just the commanders. >> he was with the sixers, the devils. >> devils, sixers, they own some things, you know, together and other things separately, as well. >> what do you do when you're a life long eagles fan, but david teper is a steelers fan and owns

tampa. >> you buy what's for sale. >> it's a little bit different, but yeah, okay. >> hormel not putting a shy on sales. >> turkey sales, internationally and domestically, i was a little disappointed because you know -- now you call into question, is there any involvement there? the volume down 6%, net sales minus 4%. turkeys down 10% internationally. but then again, hostess twinkies are not seeing anything. i've seen the numbers. >> continuing the consumer them, chewy down today, as they miss.

revenue was ahead. that's a 10% drop. >> yeah. >> nike, a lot of the household names not doing well today. >> foot locker. >> but it's an ai day. cybersecurity is coming back now. okta was up big. >> up 4%. to jim's point about tech and ai, it's an important day for presentations on that front. openai chief sam altman is on stage at the dealbook summit. but let's check bonds today as we await powell and beige book data this afternoon. adp came in pretty much in line. stay with us.

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and provide access to specialists who help with estate planning to look out for future generations so you're not just growing and protecting your wealth. you're sharing it. because doors were meant to be opened. great job, everybody! jim, we mentioned ed gm a e ago. >> we're all players in this economy. this is a term talking about the idea that maybe without the lawsuit about musk -- there is a musk-conomy, and he can do other things. he doesn't have what he wants, which is the 25%. i said once again, jonas is very provocative and it concerns me. the only thing that can stop tesla is if one day musk says, i'm going to focus on other

parts of the economy. >> goldman looks at the survey where spending intentions are down, brand and trust are down. even the other brands are steady. >> inventory issues, maybe. that said, if they do -- look, i'm they have going to count that guy out. i know if they do self-driving and robo taxi, you would be selling it way too early. palantir can never be dismissed, and tesla can never been dismissed. >> you watching the stock of palantir? >> i keep a close eye on it at all times, because alice carp is keeping a close eye on all of us. >> i like carp. a nice guy. >> he doesn't like you. >> he doesn't like me at all. >> no, he doesn't. >> you know what? i don't care.

>> how about tonight? >> i've got okta. we've got campbell's, mark clouse, a traitor to the eagles, and we have cracker barrel, and i think there's a turn going on at cracker barrel that you wouldn't believe. when i was 220 pounds, david, the pie alamo with the slice of cheese, that was something to just treasure. >> jim, it's a little perverse to look at it, but shares of unh are higher. there's probably some sense among investors that this was not the ceo of the entire group who was killed. >> a lot of people feel that the next administration just doesn't have time to care about this, care about the kesen, one of the best performers in the s&p -- >> let's get to dealbook, where we're beginning to hear from

openai ceo sam altman. >> innovate, and now think about what our future is going to be like. the company is now worth about $157 billion. openai didn't just spark an arms race but defined the possibilities of technology. as he pushes toward artificial general intelligence, we're forced to grapple with big questions about the future of work, the balance of power and ethical questions and we'll get into all of that with sam. so thank you, the man at the center of it all. good to see you. so here's where we're going to start. two years ago, almost to this week basically, you launched chatgpt, and i think it's fair to say that when you press the button, since then, all hell has broken loose. you know, it has changed the global conversation. it has changed fund raising,

priorities, resources, other technology companies have shifted the way they're doing things. there have been lawsuits. all of it. and so i'm very curious, if you could take us back two years ago, almost to the day or the week, and what you thought was going to happen when you pressed the button. >> so in the abstract, we always knew there would be some moment where, for whatever reason, the world would go from not getting it to getting it. that all of a sudden it would be clear that this technology was worth, worth, it seemed very obvious to us, that we were going to do all these useful things. and why it happened at the launch of chatgpt, i mean, i have some theorys, but why it happened then and not when we launched earlier or why it didn't happen until chatgpt 4 launched, why that exact moment, i think there is some like

chanceiness to when it catches fire. we had observed with the api and gpt-3, which was a little yerl i. but in some case, developers in the play ground. test ideas before you implement ai. they loved just talking to the model. they would just sit there and talk to gp3, conversationally about whatever. that was the main thing people were using it for. if that's what people want, we can make it much easier to use. you don't have to sign up for a developer account and these other things. we can tune it to be good at conversations. we said, okay, let's make this as a product. we had actually been planning to launch it with gpt 4. >> did you expect all of this to happen. >> at some point we thought there would be a big moment in the world. did we think it was right then

with chatgpt, certainly not. >> here we are now, two years later, and the next big question that we're all asking, i can't believe we're asking it two years later, and you wrote about it, you said that it is possible that we will have super intelligence in a few thousand days. >> yeah. >> from now. >> two years ago, did you think that? and when you say a few thousand days, i can do various versions of math on what that means. >> well, i mean, there is wide uncertainty, and there's also different definitions of what super intelligence is. i -- yes, two years ago, we thought we were on a pretty steep curve. i mean, we started open ai because we thought this was possible. and maybe not that far away. and it has gone well, but we hoped it was going to go well. like we believed in deep learning as this unbelievable new discovery of humanity, and we thought it could go here, and we had a duty to get it here and make it go well, and broadly

share the benefits, but, yeah, we did think we could get here, and we believe we can get here. it's not for sure. there's a ton of hard work, research and engineering still to do. i think it's possible, and i think it's possible not super far in the future. i expect that in 2025, we will have systems that people look at, even people who are skeptical of current progress, and say, wow, i did not expect that. that does change what -- >> like what? >> agents are the thing everyone is talking about, i think for good reason. the idea that you can give an ai system a complicated task that you give to a smart human that takes a while to go off and do and use a bunch of tools and create something of value, that's the kind of thing i would expect next year, and that's a huge deal. we talk about that, this thing is going to happen. that's like -- if that works as well as we hope it does, that can transform things. >> what are we supposed to think? there's been a whole bunch of

headlines in the past couple of weeks that people have talked about maybe the scaling laws of ai are slowing down, and you put out this -- i don't know if it was cryptic or very district. you put out a tweet where you wrote, there is no wall. >> i don't see how it could be any less cryptic than that. like, that was an attempt not to be cryptic at all and say, hey, this is going to keep going. in fact, hopefully this will put it to rest at least for a while. yeah, i've always been struck by how much people love to speculate, is there a wall, is scaling going to keep going, rather than just like look at the curve of progress and say maybe i shouldn't bet against an exponential like that. in any case, we have a bunch of new great stuff. we're doing this fun thing for the holidays, 12 days of open ai starting tomorrow, that we're going to launch, either launch something or do a demo for the next 12 week days, and without saying too much about the thing

for tomorrow, it is continued progress. >> and give us a little bit more of a hint, then, if it's going to start tomorrow? start today, right now. >> i don't want to spoil your surprise. it's not that long to wait. >> i'm not good with that. i want to know, one of the big questions about ai right now, though, is -- and this goes to the scale in question is how much data and what it takes to actually continue to scale. how much of this is about just pure processing power and therefore capital, right? versus data, where you get that data, this idea of synthetic data, digital data, that we're going to recreate data on top of data. what does it actually take to scale at this point, when people talking about the limiting factors, i think that there's some question embedded in that about which piece is going to get there? >> so the three key inputs, the

three key ones are compute, data and algorithms. and you can trade them off sometimes, like if you have much better data, you could use less compute or if you want a lot more compute, you could use that to create sen synthetic data and make more data. for a while there was incredible easy gains with compute. we have had a lot of algorithm gains, but kind of -- you want to push on all of those inputs at the same time. and at different times there may be differential returns to one or the other, but i kind of think of all three. >> but for you, compute, i assume, is the biggie? if you don't have the compute, all the others don't matter? >> if n some sense, algorithmic progress is the big one. maybe you can double the size of a computer, like 10x the size of computers. once in a while, thousand x games come along, like the

transformer, a good example of that. that's repair are but that is t biggest gain when it happens. >> right now, there's an arms race, it feels like, for processing power, right, there's an arms race for fundraising for processing power. there's an arms race to build just, and get more compute. you have a relationship with microsoft. >> yeah. >> and you rely on them right now? >> i think there's a race on all of these things. the compute one is like the most fun, the most theoretical, the biggest numbers, it gets the most attention. it is really important. i don't want to dismiss it, but there's certainly also huge amounts of effort going into who can come up with the best algorithmic ideas, who can secure new data sources. i think it is on all three fronts. >> you do have this relationship with microsoft. it has been described -- at times it's been described as a tech bromance in the best way possible, and then i was just reading alex heath who wrote it's clear that microsoft and open ai are tangling.

>> there are some misalignments. on the whole, i think it's been a tremendously positive thing for both companies, and excited to do, like, much more together. >> but long term, do you think you need to have your own processing power that's yours, as opposed to relying on somebody else? >> no. and, in fact, i mean, i think we need to ensure that we get enough compute of the kind we want that we can rely on and all of that. and there may be reasons we have some like very crazy ideas about things we would like to build that are high risk, high reward. we certainly don't need to have, like, open ai get really good at building computer, like massive scale data centers. in fact, one of the things -- and maybe this is a consequence

of kind of how i grew up, but i grew up as one of those like start up founders, of the generation where it was like, oh, be ever that period of time, everybody had to build their own hardware and you had data centers, and there was a thing you had to do, and changed the scene. i have always like thought that way. i'm open to us, you know, saying, okay, we are going to have to build stuff ourselves or maybe vertical integration, be more important over time. but it's really nice to get to focus on, like, research and product and do what we're good at. >> one of the reasons i ask is it creates this sort of friend, enemy, frenemie situation. you have your product. i was actually using it to check out a couple of things just yesterday. >> how did it do? >> great. >> happy to hear it. >> by the way we're going to have sundar. the search product is fascinating. >> it is really cool. that's my favorite product we have launched.

thank you for saying that. it's my favorite product we have launched in a long time. i use it so much. i am so happy with it. it's completely changed my usage of the internet. >> where i was going with this, you have this relationship where you have microsoft that's using your product in copilot, you now have apple using your product. and then you have your own version of a native product that you sell commercially yourself. at some point, do the interests no longer become aligned? and i say that because there has been reporting, including in the "new york times" that suggests there has been frustration about how much processing power and access you're getting, different requirements of things and services that folks at open ai are supposed to use that are microsoft products. i want to understand all of that. >> there's definitely at various times, real compute process. our product has scaled. two years ago, we had almost no

business. now we have like 300 million weekly active users. users are sending more than a billion message s a day to chatgpt. 1.3 million u.s. developers, many more in the world. we need lots of compute, more than we projected and that's just been like an unusual thing in the history of business to scale that quickly. i have not heard people upset about using microsoft services, though. you know, we have a big platform business. we have a big first party business. many other companies manage both of those things, and we have, like, things that we're really good at. microsoft has things they're really good at. there's not no tension, but on the whole, like, i think our incentives are pretty aligned. >> it sounds like there's a little bit of tension. >> for sure. >> on the artificial general intelligence piece, though, because you always said part of your deal with them is that if you ever get there, right, that then the deal could technically

be called off. it sounds like you might be getting close? >> we've also said that our intention is to treat agi as a mile marker along the way. we have left ourselves some flexibility because we don't know what will happen, but my guess is we will hit agi sooner than most people in the world will think, and it will matter much less, and a lot of the safety concerns that we and others expressed actually don't come at the agi moment. it's like agi can get built, the world goes on the same way, the economy moves faster, things grow faster but then there's a long continuation from what we call agi to superintelligence. >> that's when we should get worried. even in the past couple of years, you were in washington and other places telling us we should be nervous. >> first of all, even at the gi moment, there are things to be nervous about. i expect the economic disruption to take a little longer than people think because there's a

lot of inertia in society but then to be more intense than people think. the first couple of years, maybe not that much changes and then maybe a lot changes in the economy. i'm not a believer in the no word. i think we'll always find things to do, and with every major technological revolution, there's a lot of job turnover, but i would bet we will have never seen it go this fast. so i think there's things like that to worry about in the relatively near term. >> but not these super dangerous things. >> that i think is further out than a system that can, you know. >> do you have any faith that the government or somebody is going to fig out how to avoid that? >> i have faith that researchers will figure out how to avoid that. let me caveat a little bit. i think there are a set of technical problems that the smartest people in the world are going to work on, and i'm a little bit too optimistic by nature, but i assume that they're going to figure that

out. and working super hard, others are working super hard. i think there's a lot of work in front of us. i also think we have this magic -- not magic, we have this incredible piece of science called deep learning that can help us solve these very hard problems. i assume we'll get that right. the societal issues around not just agi, not the thing that we think will come in a few years that can do a bunch of jobs and create a lot of economic value, true super intelligence, the system that's not just smarter than you and smarter than me, and smarter than all of us put together. just unbelievable capability. even if we can make that technically safe, which i assume we'll figure out, we are going to have to have some faith in our governments, there are going to have to be policy issues around that. there's going to have to be global coordination to a degree that i assume will rise to the occasion but seems challenging. >> here's a safety question, and we have all read the headlines, you have been in the headlines,

over the past year, two years, there have been so many people, both inside open ai who have either left or spoken out or other things where they say, these guys are not focused on safety enough. you have to trust questions. speak to it so we understand. when people say that there's not enough focus on safety, you think what? what is that -- what is not happening that is supposed to be happening? >> well, i point to our track record. i would say, you know, we've talked about like we've got this big product out there, a very new technology moving very quickly. it started off as something that we did not know how we were going to align very well, and it is now generally considered by most of society to be acceptably safe and acceptably robust. safety, that's always like a contract negotiated by a whole bunch of stake holders. it's maybe hard to define exactly what it means for chatgpt to be safe. >> the reason i ask, when we hear, you know, different people

who have left the organization and they've gone public, they take to twitter, and they say, these folks are not focused on safety. is that about resources on safety? is that about processing power? is that about your attention? >> there are definitely people who think that chatgpt is not sufficiently safe, that it allows things that it shouldn't or doesn't do things that it should or there are people who will push on parts of that. there are people who will say, fine, chatgpt, maybe that's a little bit safer than we thought it was going to be, but what's the plan for the next system, what are we going to do about that? and also there are people who would say, like, putting out a system like this at all, i mean, is unsafe because open ai accelerated a race in the world, and that gives us less time to work on safety. so we believe, and if this is an opinionated stance that this idea of iterative deployment is really important. we've got to put these systems in the world. you have to start while the

stakes are lower. you have to understand how people are going to use this and what it doesn't work for, what it does. there are other people who say, sure, there's benefits there, but it's not worth the costs. >> right. >> let me ask you a different question, and maybe it goes back to the issue of processing power, and i was going to mention elon musk is building his own processing, you know, these huge processing power labs, effectively to power xai. and one of the reasons i ask whether you needed your own, it seems like everybody is getting their own. we were just talking before to ken about elon musk. elon musk has a sort of unusual relationship in your life over the years, both as a founder and somebody who's suing the company now. how much do you see xai as a competitor? we talk about google, obviously, all the time, and we talk about

entlopic, and microsoft, how do you see that? >> they're a competitor. >> do you think of them as one of your biggest competitors? it appears they're coming on super strong. >> i assume they'll be a fierce competitor. >> did you expect that? >> yes. >> what are they doing and how have they been able to spin up a company that feels, i'm not saying it's comparable to what you're doing but getting super close super fast, meaning what is that? >> well, a lot of the models at the frontier are all pretty close now, but certainly tremendous respect for how quickly they built that data center. >> is that, by the way, do you fear that all of this becomes commoditized as a result? if it seems like, i'm not saying anybody can do it, but what is your advantage, and by the way, what is your disadvantage? >> i think the technology itself -- to the degree you

believe deep learning is sort of like a law of physics and that we discovered an important new piece of science, then, yes, that part will be done by lots of people. everybody has their analogy for what ai is like, you know. sundar talk about it, like electricity, a whole bunch of others. people talk about the industrial revolution, the republican advance. the -- renaissance. the one i like is a transistor. there was a scientific discovery that a few companies discovered first that transformed our society, that scaled unbelievably well. you know when people talking about scaling walls, the best analogy for that is i think moors law and came to be used by a lot of companies in all of the world. look at all the things in this room as a transistor. we don't think about google as a

transistor company. and i kind of think that's what's going to happen with ai. there will be shockingly capable models widely available used for everything, and it will be inconceivable to people in the future that the devices, the products and services that we use are not really smart. and they won't all call themselves ai companies or ai products and in that sense, in some sense, the ai itself, the reasoning engine nature of it will become commoditized and that's fine. good. science sh be just diffused throughout ciety. and that's why we're focusing on building things like chatgpt. >> one of the other things, and it is elon related. you are now moving towards having a for profit component part of your business. right now it's a not for profit, and he, as everybody knows, if you read the papers, is suing you over this and many other

things. how do you feel -- i actually just want to ask you on a very personal level, forgetting about even the merits of the case, as a guy who has spent a lot of time with him, and you guys founded this thing together, how do you feel personally today about all of this? >> tremendously salad. i grew up with elon as like a mega hero. i thought what elon was doing was absolutely incredible for the world , and i have differen feelings about him now, but i'm glad he exists. i mean that genuinely, not just because i think his companies are awesome, which i do think, but because i think he, like, at a time when most of the world was not thinking very ambitiously, he pushed a lot of people, me included, to think much more ambitiously.

and grateful is the long kind of word, i'm thankful. i'm positive about that. you know, we started open ai together, and then at some point he totally lost faith in open ai and decided to go his own way, and that's fine too. but i think of elon as a builder and someone who, like, you know, known thing about elon, he really cares about being the guy. but i think of him as someone that if he's not that just competes in the market and in technology and whatever else and doesn't resort to law fare, and, you know, whatever the stated complaint is, what i believe is he's just like, he's a competitor, and we're doing well, and that's sad to see. >> i have to ask you this, there was an article in the "wall street journal." you were in it, jeff bezos was in it, some of the other people who are his main competitors are in it. there's speculation in the

article that folks like yourself were worried about his influence, not just his influence in the technology area but given his close relationship now with the president-elect. >> i'm actually not. i believe that, pretty strongly, i may turn out to be wrong, but i believe strongly that elon will do the right thing, and americans would be profoundly un-american to use political power to the degree that elon has it to hurt your competitors and advantage your own businesses. and i don't think people would tolerate that. i don't think elon would do it. it would go, again, lots of things not to like about him, but it would go so deeply against the values that i believe he holds dear to himself, i'm not that worried about it. >> one related question, and then i want to talk a different

tech question about the company. one of the things he alleged is he thinks you guys are so big there's not competition, and you're trying to prevent competition from happening by preventing potential funders, for example, xai or arguably others from both funding you and funding them at the same time. >> incorrect. what we said, which is very standard is if you invest in us and want to invest in any of our competitors, that's totally fine. we stop information rightings. you can still do it. like is a standard company for our skill. stop telling you our research road map, and everybody is like that seems reasonable. you want to go invest in them, go invest. >> you started as a nonforprofit, it was a research outfit, there's a view it has to shift to a profit-oriented company. does it have to? >> well, first of all, reasonably started as a

nonprofit. i think it speaks to the answer, too. when we started, we did not have any idea that we were going to be a product company. we also did not know the amount of capital we needed would turn out to be so huge. if we did know those things, we would have picked a different structure. it's hard to overstate -- because it wasn't that long ago on the calendar. it's hard to overstate how different 2016 was. this is years before we had the research that led to language models. four and a half years before we launched a first product. this was, like, six and a half years before we launched chatgpt. all we knew that we wanted to do was do some ai research, and that we thought gi and super intelligence would be this important thing to the world, and we wanted to, like, somehow do something that would be good. at the time we were working on, like, writing papers, new

algorithms, new theories. a way to play video games, robotic hands, and it was not clear that there would ever be a product or revenue stream at all. and it wasn't clear that we were going to need one. it wasn't clear we needed so much money. >> right. >> it became clearer after gpt 1, and elon decided to stop funding us as a nonprofit, and we couldn't get somebody else to do it, that we needed to find a way to make a profit. we wanted to keep going with a lot of the things we think are good about a nonprofit, and so we had the subsidiary, capped profit, that worked for a while, and in some sensuous e it still kind of work and in other sense, strange the theory of what a nonprofit-controlled org can be.

we are and have been for a while looking at some changes. nothing is decided. it is, as you can imagine, like very complicated to figure this out. and the board is like hard at work on it. i don't -- in any configuration, like the nonprofit doesn't go away. one thing the board has looked at, for example, is a nonprofit owns a huge chunk of and figures out how to use that wealth for the purpose of the nonprofit. there's other ideas, too. you know. >> one of the things i have always been fascinated by is you never took equity in the company. >> i think you think about that more than i do. >> i'm surprised. you get paid $76,000, i looked, and that's it. if the company does have one of these moments, there's an expectation you will get equity. >> there's press about that and

investor pressure. it is weird that i didn't get equity. >> you didn't want it, though? >> no, i didn't want it. if i could go back in time, i would have taken it, just some little bit, just to never have to answer this question. and no matter how many times i try to explain to people, like, i have the most interesting, coolest job in the world, this is like my retirement dream way to spend my time after like what was a pretty good career, and people can work on, like, art projects and not get paid for that, and no one thinks it's weird or whatever. it just does not come across. so i wish i had taken some. i don't imagine i would work any harder or less hard. there would be something clearer about the alignment i would have had with investors or whatever else. it definitely would have been easier to raise money. there are plenty of investors

who have not invested. >> really, that's interesting. they will not invest because you do not have equity. >> it's come up a few times. >> now the company is $157 billion, what do you think is a number for yourself if it happens? >> i think you think about it more. i have a couple other quick questions. one is, full disclosure, we should say -- >> can i say one more thing on that point before we go. i'll be quick. this is my childhood dream job, like not every day, like not day-to-day, i would rather not, like, you know, beat my head against a wall all the time, but getting to work on agi and sit in the room with the smartest researchers in the world and go on this crazy adventure, that is what i always wanted to do. that is my literal childhood dream, and that is all of the weirdness aside, i think it should at least be understandable that that is worth more to me than any additional money. >> air enough.

thank you. [ applause ] let me ask you this, and i would be remiss if i didn't mention it, it just so happens that the "new york times" company has a lawsuit against open ai, and microsoft over training on content, and there's a lot of content creators and other folks in this rom who make their living off of content. and i'm just so curious, and i know you can't speak to the lawsuit itself, but for those folks who are in this room who have written books or articles or made movies or what have you. >> yeah. >> that have had their information trained on, whether it was on the open web or the closed web or on you tube or what have you, how we should feel? >> i think -- i think we do need a new deal, standard, protocol,

whatever you want to call it, for how creators are going to get rewarded. i very much believe in the right to learn or whatever you want to call it, ai reads something, physics textbook and learn physics, use that for other things. i think those parts of copy right law and fair use really need to keep applying. but i think there's additional things that we're starting to explore, and others are, where, you know, a particular passion of mine has always been can we figure out how to do micro payments if you generate a story in the style of andrew ross sorkin, you can opt into that for your name and likeness and style to be used and get paid for it. there are many other ideas too. i think the discussion on fair use or not is at the wrong level, and of course we very much believe in you need one of these right-to-learn approaches, but the part i really agree with is we need to find new economic models where creditors can have new revenue streams. on the "new york times," look, i

don't believe in showing up in someone else's house and being rude, but i will say, i think "the new york times" is on the wrong side of history in many ways. >> we can discuss and debate that. and we'll do that i think in court. >> look forward to seeing you. my final question for you actually has almost nothing to do with technology but maybe it does. you have a very exciting thing that's happening in your life, personally, in the next year, which you're having a child. >> yeah. >> and for all parents out there and would be parents who are thinking about ai and what this is going to do to our life and what are even -- even what our own meaning is as people if the machine actually can do things that we really can't, what're supposed to do, how we're supposed to think about it, what it does to our own dignity. what do you think, when you have your child and you're thinking and talking to that child, what

do you think you're going to be telling them about this new world we're about to enter? >> there's nothing like -- i'm sure having a kid will be even stronger, but really getting ready to having a kid, there's nothing like, at least for me, there's nothing that has made agi so relevant, and, like, the level of excitement i have about agi i thought was pretty high. >> that is sam altman with andrew ross sorkin. we have been listening to the open ai ceo talking about scaling, politics, external and internal, elon musk, the future of work and the future of humanity. i'm carl quintanilla. sara eisen has the morning off. first, a developing story this morning. the ceo of united health care, a subdivision of unitedhealth group has been fatally shot today in midtown manhattan. unh's ceo andrew witty spoke

about the tragedy this morning in the company's investor call. >> i'm afraid that we -- some of you may know. we're dealing with a very serious medical situation with one of our team members. and as a result, i'm afraid we're going to have to bring to a close the event today, which i apologize for. i'm sure you'll understand. we're going to go offline now from the broadcast. and we'll share with you an alternate mechanism, for information we were going to share with you the rest of the day. i apologize for bringing things to a close. i hope you'll understand. >> that was part of a scheduled investor day web cast that was interrupted because of this tragedy. let's bring in bertha coombs for the latest this hour. hi again, bertha. >> hi, carl, the ceo of united health insurance division brian thompson was fatally shot this morning. just outside of the hilton hotel where the company was holding its investor day conference.

now, according to the new york police department, the shooting occurred around 6:45 this morning. a source familiar tells cnbc that thompson was walking around outside and this appears to have been a targeted attack. the gunman came up behind him and shot him once. he staggered and then he shot him again. the gunman was a white male wearing a black hoodie, black pants, and black sneakers. and he was described as using a gun with a silencer. he fled on foot after the shooting. thompson was rushed to a nearby hospital where he later died of his wounds. brian thompson had been with the company for 20 years, serving various posts within the health insurance division. first as cfo of the company employer, health insurance business, and transferring over-to-over to managing the medicare and medicaid business before being

named chief of the company's business overall, ceo of united health care, he had a wife and two children. united health did begin that analyst presentation a little bit late this morning, apparently following the shooting, but apparently when executives got the news that thompson had died, that was a little after 9:30, 9:40. ceo, andrew witty, as you heard, canceled the web cast of the meeting. we have reached out to united health for comment, but they haven't yet issued a statement with regard to the shooting. as you can imagine, that is shocking and tragic event for all. the new york police department is scheduled to hold an update today at 11:30 a.m. carl. >> bertha we have been talking this morning about how midtown manhattan for a host of reasons, the camera network, the number of potential witnesses, the ability for the police to put a

ring around any event is one of the most difficult places in the country to commit a crime and not get caught. i wonder how optimistic the police will be about catching a suspect. >> that is a very good question. if there are surveillance cameras, that will certainly help in the search for the suspect. again, a source familiar has told cnbc, we'll wait to see what police say during their update in a little bit later this morning, but a source particular says this does appear to be a targeted, not a, you know, kind of event that just happens. again, we don't have in many mo details with regard to that. you can be sure that this is going to be quite a very thorough man hunt trying to find this suspect. >> bertha, tough story this morning. thank you for that, bertha coombs, with the latest on that. meantime, we just heard from one of ai's biggest players today. as you heard, open ai sam

altman speaking about a host of products, including their search product. take a listen. >> the search product is fascinating. what you're doing. >> it is really cool. that's my favorite product we have launched. thank you for saying that. it's my favorite product we have launched in a long time. i use it so much, and i'm so happy with it. it has like completely changed my usage of the internet. >> here with his reaction, early facebook and google investor, elevation partners cofounder, roger mcnamee, it's great to have you. really interesting conversation with andrew, and altman teased the audience with upcoming clues about the progress they have been making. >> the man is really good. you can see why we've had this incredible mania for generative ai because sam altman has this wonderful way of teasing out the story in a way that is essentially compelling to everybody. you know, the thing that he doesn't talk about, or at least

he doesn't talk about much in the presentation with andrew, is that this is happening in the context of an economy that's really diverse, and it's resulting in a reallocation of resources. so sit there and think about the energy consumption requirements, think about the theft of copy righted materials. think about the usage of water. all of these things are going to something which may be very valuable one day, but which today, at least, has cost an enormous amount of money. at least 150 billion invested, to generate a small fraction of that in revenue and where there are some real questions about what the limits of the technology are. people are trying to apply it in places it's not likely to worng. i think the thing we as investors have to be asking, the philosophical one, is this the best thing we can do with all

the capital that's out there, giving the evidence of climate change and other disruptions in the global economy that suggest we're going to have to do more things in this country to protect, you know, our national security. but we'll see what happens. i mean, the guy is very very persuasive. i think people are absolutely committed to doing this. we don't know if it's going to work. >> the other interesting thing he said, it's going to require not just smart policy on the part of our government but smart policy coordination among multiple governments and who knows what kind of unreliable actors you'll put in that pool. >> i wouldn't hold my breath on that. one thing worth talking about, i have been in the business 40 years. i remember back in the '80s, an earlier generation of ai proponents who were basically making the case that, hey, if you give us ten times as much compute as we have now, and ten times as much data, we will give you agi. they were saying that in the

'80s, in the '90s, sometimes it's machine learning, sometimes it's neural networks. the core point is it's always just one 10x turn of the crank away from agi. and the reality is they have done a brilliant job of moving the goal posts, and i think they're going to do it again. i do believe people are going to spend a fortune on this technology. the key question is what you get from it. you can force your customers to accept lower quality services, it's probably going to be okay for the companies that deploy it. i think the experience for the customer is going to get worse across a lot of different categories frequently, and in some places, health care, particularly things like therapy, it's going to be dangerous. and i think in things like search, no matter what sam altman says, the product isn't designed to distinguish facts from nonfacts, and in search, you don't want to have to fact check every result you get.

>> roger, you have been consistent in voicing that opinion, and i think it's an important voice to have in this debate, and i know we're going to continue it. i was interested in listening to altman discuss the fact that he believes agi will be reached perhaps i think his words were, you know, sooner than many expect, at least, and then his view on what it will mean for work. i'm curious to get your thoughtings. -- thoughts. first couple of years, not a lot changes and then maybe a lot changes in the economy, he said. you know, a lot of job turnover, and i would bet we will never have seen it go this fast. you have any thoughts? >> that's the history of what technology does to the economy, and if we just look at california, it's a state with, i think, 2.3 or 2.4 million jobs that are creative jobs that relate to media. think about hollywood. think about music industry. you know, think about the journalism world. there are about 2.3, 2.4 million

jobs, every one of which is at risk because of generative ai. it's hard to imagine the industry employing in the state, even 100,000 people. we're looking at losing a lot. we won't lose all of the 2.3 million 2.3 million jobs, imagine you lost a third or a half. the impact would be huge. put that across the whole country. you have to actually have a plan for doing that. in the personal computer generation, it turned out that the economy reorganized in a way that created more good jobs than it eliminated. that didn't happen with the internet, and i don't know that it's going to happen here, but if it doesn't happen, it's going to be incredibly disruptive, and we should have a plan for that. altman is a right. >> what about the plan for safety? because one thing that altman did say is he doesn't believe safety concerns come at the agi moment. do you buy that, and do you think that regulators are currently on top of potential

safety ramifications of this technology? >> well, so the answer to the last question is no. i mean, there's no question that regulators are at best just beginning to get up to speed. there is nobody with a real plan. the europeans have an ai act. it does have some very thoughtful things in it. the enforcement of which remains to be seen. but in the united states in particular, we have basically had a laissez-faire attitude towards all forms of technology. the observation i would make is the future problems are likely to be significant but the present problems are the ones we should focus on, the power consumption, we're talking about restarting three mile island. the notion that we might be using half a liter of water for a small number of queries, so we're using water in desert areas that we just can't afford to use. that we're displacing creative people. >> big questions, we're going to

continue to ask them on a pretty much daily basis. roger mcnamee, thank you so much for helping us understand that great interview with altman. the s&p and nasdaq, all time high for the s&p as ism services came in a little shy. and powell on deck. don't go anywhere.

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♪ ♪ welcome back. salesforce soaring on its latest earnings results and guidance. ai demand long side double digit growth, fueling an upbeat outlook. our next guest maintenance his neutral rating on the stock. is a $300 price target on salesforce. gill, thank you for being here. you did a deep dive into how software companies are utilizing, salesforce and palantir you're studying here. you have neutral ratings on both of those. what did you find in your investigation and kind of

looking into their utilization of ai, and why maintain that neutral rating given those findings? >> yeah, so for salesforce, the tools are probably two to three years away from being meaningful. investors are getting really excited today because the notion of agentforce, of agents doing tasks for us is exciting, and there's some good early feedback fr. so investors were willing to look past what was a pretty bad quarter with that excitement going forward. revenue decelerated almost across the board for salesforce in its data cloud, they call it integration and analytics now. growth was 25% two quarters ago, it was 5% this quarter. so that agentforce really has to start driving growth in a meaningful way next year to justify the stock price and the stock reaction today. so on salesforce, i would say we're a little early. we're maybe two, three years

early in getting excited before these tools do well. with palantir, palantir has done phenomenally well in the last couple of years because they have the right product at the right place. they were able to go to companies and say i can get you an ai tool in six months that you can show the board and show you're doing something in ai, and it's driven revenue acceleration. they have had the best results of any software company. they're also trading at 50 times revenue. 150 times cash flow. so we're a little late on palantir. >> so, you know, one of the notions previously was this idea that ai was taking capital, tak from software. do you think that some of the excitement today perhaps with regard to salesforce is just this idea that, yes, we're in early innings, but if they do have a product that's scaleable, maybe we'll start to, you know, kind of assuage some of those earlier concerns? >> that's exactly right. that's exactly what we're seeing. for the last couple of years,

attention was on semis and hardware and picks and shovels, and now -- and that was the shiny object in the room that everybody wanted to invest in and buy, and now we are getting into that mode where everybody comes back and realizes, well, for all of this to work, it has to work at the software, it has to look at the application layer. that's why you're seeing software broadly up today, broadly up over the last few weeks as people realize that for these tools to work, they're going to have to come through software. the thing is we are still early. that's why we prefer the companies that give you the ability to build these tools. amazon, with amazon web services, snowflakes with analytical data bases. even meta with its llama models. everybody is going to need those to build these tools. it's going to take time for the tools to be ready for prime time and investors may be getting ahead of themselves a little bit. but the shift towards software is the right one. we are going to see that over

the next couple of years. >> so software may not be eating the world, but it's not necessarily getting eaten either at least at this point in time? >> that's exactly right. that's how we're going to win is through the software layer. thank you. >> through your stomach and eating. gil, thank you. salesforce not the only name on the move. dollar tree with a top and a bottom line beat. some acceleration in comps, although shares here down fractionally as we got dollar tree, i think, and family dollar up 19. chewy is under pressure after new numbers there. the ceo is going to join us to break down the quarter as shares are down 7 plus, that's up next on "money movers."

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summit underway, our andrew ross sorkin spoke with citadel's ken griffin last hour. elon musk, the doge commission, one of the big topics covered. >> he is truly one of the great entrepreneurs of our lifetime. no ifs, no ands, no buts, he runs tesla. he runs spacex at a level of excellence that very few companies can even start to relate to. and i think that his willingness to be in this role that involves such a commitment of his time and public service is something that i applaud and admire. will he be successful? that's really hard to tell at this point in time because as you and i both know, he's going to have to hit the hard reality, the hard truth that making cuts of any form whatsoever will be politically very unpopular. >> that's what i was going to ask, do you think it's actually -- he's talked about $2 trillion, we don't know whether that's annually or over time, or what it is, but do you think that's even plausible?

>> i think that without a thoughtful change in the trajectory of entitlements it will be very hard to squeeze numbers in the rillions of dollars out of the baseline budget, and in particular, because we've increased interest expense in such a profound way over the last, over like the last eight years. >> yeah, he brings up a good point. doge commission does not control the trajectory of interest rates, so that interest expense will be dictated by the level of rates. but he brings up an interesting point with regard to just the overall uncertainty of it all and the entitlements and cutting those and difficulty therein. elon musk got a lot of attention at deal book today, sam altman talked about -- >> elon musk is the most consequential businessman/government adviser that we have, and he's involved in so many different things. it's amazing how often we discuss him but rightly so. he comes up in so many different

conversations. and i think the point that griffin made is the right one. entitlements are what you need to get at if you're going to try to get at the underlying increases to some spent. if you just get on the right trajectory, you send the proper messages and you won't have to be concerned about some boycott from the bond market coming at some uncertain date. >> every dollar of spending has some constituency that wants that dollar of spending. difficult decisions. >> a lot more market coverage straight ahead for you right here. stay with us. humana medicare advantage plans. carry this card and you could have the power to unlock benefits beyond original medicare. these are convenient plans that offer all of the benefits of original medicare, plus extra coverage and benefits. with a humana medicare advantage plan, you could get doctor, hospital and prescription drug coverage in one convenient plan. with zero-dollar copays on hundreds of prescriptions. most plans include dental coverage, including

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good webs morning. welcome to "money movers." i'm cart quintanilla with leslie picker at the stock exchange. s&p and nasdaq off record closes. salesforce giving a boost to the dow today. does this postelection rally need a pullback or should investors stick with what's working? we talk about it. and lower eps still comes in below estimates. the ceo is with us this hour. >> france's government face as vote of