not as much emphasis. continues to be something we need to solve for. >> on the close today, a buyer of zoom communications. >> good stuff. >> we are not that far away zm,m communications. >> 44,300 on the dow, we're not that far away from 6100 on the s&p. and we are currently above 20,000 on the nasdaq. i'll see you in a couple of hours. >> camera run for the nasdaq, from 10 to 20 k, we'll have more on that in just a bit. welcome to "the exchange." i'm kelly evans. the cpi report looked sticky and felt sticky, but if you take out rents it's largely in line. the market it banking on a cut in the next week and but one of our guests said that is a mistake, if there is a cut this time, that is the last one.

speaking of inflation, we hit the grocery aisles to find the winners and loser, bank of america is here with a show and tell and the trades to make as a result of our information, let mel me tell you, the difference between the name brand and the store brand was a treat. and tech stocks are getting a boost on the back of the cpi report but there is a new fight brewing in the tech world and a new head for target big tech. what it could mean for the all of the stocks. and dom chu is here with the numbers and a big day for the north dakota. >> we are not going to bury the lead. it is a record run here for the nasdaq and we hit 20,000 for the first time ever. so, yes, the star goes up right away. a clear outperformance that is up 344 points to the upside, 20,031 is the level we're at, right near session highs because the high water mark is 20,035,

so we're just inches away from there. so that is the big trade for the nasdaq. record highs in apple, meta, tesla, amazon and alphabet and others driving the nasdaq. and the s&p 500, the high water mark is still 6,099. we're at 6090. and the dow is lagging behind, at 44,310, up about 63 points. another place to keep a close eye on are reports that we got this morning from the "wall street journal" about possible legislation being contemplated to maybe break you will the pharmacy benefit managers. that is of record. it is a bipartisan bill being introduced by two co-sponsors in josh hawley and elizabeth warren of massachusetts, a democrat, looking to prohibit certain owners of pharmacy benefit managers from owning the pharmacy itself. this whole legislation has been

put out there by the beltway group. to united health and cigna and humana, among the insurers that are down markedly so and cvs down about 5%. across the board move so keep an eye on pharmacy and pharmacy benefit managers phoenix , and looking for a big stock today, this is ge vern nova. they talk about a new initial stock buyback program and that is making shares higher by 6% and the second biggest gainer in the s&p 500 today. kelly, back over to . >> i love the ge breakup story. >> you break it up and maybe if does create value. >> it does this this case. thank you very much. inflation numbers sticky in

november. up three tenths. and the core and energy up 3.3% year-over-year. but, but, but, housing and rents in particular could be propping up results. they are a big chunk of the index. we saw the smallest yearly gabes since 2022 but it is keeping the readings in the 3s. how should the fed respond, my guest said next weeks rate cut should be last one. joining me now is jake and brian weinstein is head of global markets. welcome to both of you. who said this is the last cut. >> that is me. >> go ahead. make your case. >> i think it is been a very odd couple of points. so the fed was going to ease a couple of basis points in the summer. regardless. there is nothing about today's data that would have changed that. we could have gotten a .4 but we haven't had that in a while.

it wasn't a big story. yes, you could take out housing and it looks better and they calibrated. things are weakening and they don't know why neutral is. i think 4.5, they have to pause here for a long time because you have policy coming in as a tail wind and earnings looking strong and inflation is not going back to 2, so they're waiting, you don't think this is a story of cpi because market rents are much lower than the rent readings that are showing up here. >> no, not particularly, you could slice and dice and make the story however you want it to go. inflation is what the fed said if the forecast. so they could easily getting into december. no one would have believed we would have gotten here a couple of years ago. it is a fine place to be at. but is the inflation going back up, flo i i think it is 2 to 4 and it is too much pressure on the fed for a while. >> and for yields, you could talk us through that that.

greg, i'll let you respond. are you hawkish or dovish today? >> well, i think generally speaking the market's perception that there is almost certainty that there is a december rate cut is misguided. i argued that we should have market odds that are closer to 50% given policy makers extreme data dependence and powell agnostic opinion when he goes into meetings. i would think they could wut rates at the next meeting but a longer pause before the next cut after that. and as you well know, the policy mix that we're going to get in 2025 is likely to be inflationary. whether it is deregulation, immigration restrictions, tax cuts, they're all likely to put upward inflation pressure on the economy and that will likely lead the fed to be a little bit more cautious. honestly, i'm not too concerned about underlying fundamentals.

they're still inflationary. whether it is consumer prudence, or wage growth in an environment of strong productivity or decelerating housing inflation, they're all still disinflationary. >> and it is weird, because the market is in a dovish mood. and normally, people go the market wants rate cuts but they don't price for that. a lot of times they've been wrong. why is it that investors in kind of the some total of human knowledge that we have at this point is saying that they're going to cut rates. >> i think it is a long time since we have had a recession and it is a tough trade but you could say it. >> do you feel like there is a recession trade in that rate cut. >> there is a group out there that thinks the employment is lower than it looks and the slowdown that is it coming and i think ear addicted to liquidity.

the economy does better if the fed cuts to 3.5 but i think that is an inflation problem. but the market has been very benign. we're pricing in growth. this is a growth story. the market has no -- remember we all talks about inflation, that is not longer true. break evens haven't moved much in six, eight months. so i think the inflation story is going to happen in the econd half of next year but we have a good story and the fed should sleep easy at night show knowing they've have calibrated. >> the 10-year notes went up for option at the top of the hour. rick has been tracking those results. how did it go? >> reporter: this is a good classroom experience for all of your viewers out there that aren't real familiar with auctions. it went very well. we auctioned off $39 billion for 10-years and adding to an issue that was already open, the yield at this auction, 4.235.

the issue mark was about two basis points higher. okay. so lower yield and higher price means that government sold it better. very solid. so it was good yield at the auction and the bid to cover 2.70 was the best since april of 2016. all of the metrics were above average. the one that was below is a good thing. because the dealer takedown at 10.5% versus a 10 auction average of 15% means that the buffet table was cleaned up by investors leaving the smallest amount since september of this year. but it was solid. so i give this auction an "a", but what is fascinating. many times i give a weak grade and you see yields move a lot. yields haven't moved hardly at all since the auction ended as you show intraday chart and you can't always judge an auction by the immediate reaction in the market. it was a great auction.

but the issue is, cpi was a bit warm and i think that the fact that yields really didn't move much on that number, but they're not moving on a good auction tells me long dated yields will remain stubborn as long as inflation remains stubborn and the lesson to learn today. tomorrow we complete the auction process with $22 billion, 30-year bonds. >> why do you think the market is so dovish about three or four cuts next year. >> well i think it is dovish because it knows it is going to get them. the fed is going to give the market what is pricing in. however, i do think that the equities could look at all of this data in so many different ways, one way is the reason we're not getting more cuts is maybe the economy's horsepower is holding up better than expected. while that may be true, inflation is holding up as well and i think this is the issue

that drives the difference between short rates and long rates. >> rick, thank you. and greg, do you think the market is pushing the fed around? there are people saying after this morning's report, well the market isn't fully cut, the fed lights to give them one. >> that is the narrative, that powell would not push against the market pricing. think that is perhaps a little bit excessive. but as i've highlighted earlier, markets are pricing too many rate cuts right now. we don't have policymakers that are likely to ease as much as it expected right now especially in an environment where there is tremendous -- let's not forget this gentle softening in labor market fundamentals which is pushing down income growth and in attorney leading to more prudence from consumers. especially lower to median income consumers. so it is not just a goldilocks kbhi. there are signs of a deceleration toward trend growth, but in that environment the fed is likely to continue

recalibrating more prudently to get to neutral and to acknowledge the fact that there will be policy upside risks toin flation. >> i think the part of the yield curve is -- and bonds. i lovin come. i think owning catch is great. i think if you own a 4.25 note and you're going to wonder next year why. >> this market just went well. >> but good news, there is other one coming. we're at a 6% fiscal deficit. so you could uy as many as you like, brian weinstein with morgan stanley. police report rates are on the move after some of the moves we've been discussing. diana olick is here with the details. what could you tell us. >> well mortgage rates had been moving higher to start this week after dropping again last week all in anticipation of the release of the cpi this morning. about you it all turns to out to be a mixed bag and a complicated

one but i promise to explain. let me start first with the rate. the average on the 30-year fixed moved a tiny bit lower to 6.75% today. that is according to mortgage news daily. it should have moved even lower but here is what happened. according to the matt graham of the same company. a key component has been stush yorn to fall but today cpi report shows the slowest rate since 2021 and inflation is making progress toward levels and thattin turn bolsters the outlook for a fed cut next week and that is would have pushed mortgage rates down a lot but other factors hit later in the morning, including global market reaction from the bank of canada and a general consolidation in treasuries ahead of today's auction which you just discussed. so to put all of this into perspective, mortgage rates have been floating in a narrow range. down from the 7% area where we

were in november. but way up from the low 6% range where we were for much of september. and kelly, you remember in september, that is where we started to see a surge in home sales because of the lower rates. that is stalled out and we're really waiting for rates to come back down again to get any juice in the usually slow winter market. >> still nearly 7%. diana, thank you very much. coming up,a you heard dom mention, health care stocks on a potential breakup from capitol hill. we have the details and what it means for investors next. you could see unh down 5% and apple hitting a record intraday high for a ninth day in a row now. this is the only third time in history we've seen nine straight record intraday highs and we've never had ten. we'll see if we could hit that mark tomorrow. and amazon and alphabet and meta and tesla are also hitting the milestones after this morning's inflation data. and alphabet finally surpassing the record high from back in

july. later on we'll look at google's gemini 2.0 and how it is shaping the battle for a.i. we're back after this. don't go anywhere. >> announcer: this is "the exchange" on cnbc. ♪ (alarm sound) ♪ amelia, turn off alarm. amelia, weather. 70 degrees and sunny today. amelia, unlock the door. i'm afraid i can't do that, jen. ♪ (suspenseful music) ♪ why not? did you forget something? ♪ (suspenseful music) ♪ my protein shake. the future isn't scary. not investing in it is. you're so dramatic amelia. bye jen. nasdaq-100 innovators. one etf.

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and a second unlimited line free for a year. welcome back to "the exchange." a bipartisan group of senators introducing a bill do break up pharmacy benefit managers. this is been simmering for a

long time. >> there has been a number of bills introduced. this is not bipartisan, it is bicammeral. it is members of the house on this and the nuts and bolts are to break up the big pbms and insurers and this looks at them owning pharmacies. under the bill, which is the patients before monopoly, pbm act, it would prohibit a pbm or an insurer from owning a pharmacy. the big pbms. they have fail ordera pharmas and cvs which has care mart and aetna has brick and mortar. it would require the firms to divest the pharmacy businesses over three years and it would direct the ftc to distributor discourage revenue to harm communities.

analysts say this is not likely to pass and make it to the floor during the lame-duck session here ahead of the new administration coming in. but certainly there is more momentum over this and this could be something that could be renewed in the new year given the fact that we do have this bipartisan and bicameraal agreement. >> and people were wondering if this had to do with the killing of the united health care executive. is it a moment that politicians are trying to capitalize on or is this something already planned and underway. >> i think this is something that was in the works. they've been talking about this for a long time. our emily wilkins caught up with senator warren and she is what she had to say about it. >> it is important instead of nibbling around the edges and looking for a piece here or a piece there, we go straight to the heart of the problem and

that is the conflicts and the ways in which without any regulations, pbms just get to play off against everybody else and keep it all in secret and make billions and billion dollars for themselves. >> and president trump had had dinner at pll mar-a-lago with s pharmacy executives and he said we need to look into the pbms because they do this in secret. this is what the pharma industry said about the pbms, they would argue that we're working with them and we're trying to work with employers and trying to get the best price. >> to me, the interesting part, is to go back to the origin story when they took over the pbms and the argument was we're going to make sure that we could squeeze down those margins and we're going to take ut the middle man. but then they became the middle

man. nothing changed and even the system got worse. so i think the story they were telling us about why they're going to acquire them has not been bourne out by reality. >> that is what a lot of people would argue. i think for them, they would argue it does work better when it is all unified, when you have it all within one system. but they're pbss work for other smaller insurers that can't afford to have one. and there are times when employers might one insurer for the health coverage and a pbm contract for the benefits. so then they're not also working together. over, this is something that has been gaining momentum and the issue of greater transparency about what is going on with prices. >> for sure. >> but again, the pbms don't set the prices that the drugmaker sets. so when they set a $100,000 price tag on a gene therapy, that is not something that the

pbm sets. they set that price because the negotiations, but not as though novo nordisk or lilly is looking money on their glp-1s. >> but it would capture any rebate. >> but again the rebate contracts are done differently. so if an employer said we want the rebates, they might spread it out to spread out the premium for everyone for the high cost on a particular drug. >> quick last question on this. how does at rival of mark cubon's cost plus drugs which i belief he's trying to do something more transparent, that takes out the pbms, how did it make the argument that pbms are trying to make. >> they're providing transparent contracts that do that. cvs and united health are trying to do the same thing. it is harder for companies to totally divest from them again

because of the specialty drugs. so, you could go to a transparent pbm but they might not have access to the specialty drugs so they might hold on to a piece. like tyson that held on to cvs for the special ty drugs because those are more difficult. >> it is complicated and thanks for break it down. and the stocks are under pressure on those headlines. bitcoin is back above 100,000. it is closing in on last week's record high of nearly 104. that is the crypto relates stocks on the move today. riot and miko strategy. global will join us with the crypto trends they see going forward. that is coming up in a bit on "the exchange." whether your phone's broken or old, we've got you. with verizon, anyone can trade in any phone, any condition. it's your last chance to get iphone 16 pro

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customs enforcement from making arrests at sensitive lokes such as churches, schools and hospitals and the move could come as soon as trump's first day in office and it intended to boost i.c.e. authority to arrest migrants. jet blue in 2026, with planes without the top tier mint service, the service called junior mint will be located in the first two or three rows in a two by two layout. it is part of an effort to win over higher paying customers as jet blue looks to return to profitability. and bengals quarterback joe burrow's home was broken into during monday night football. according to the sheriff's office, no one was injured and officers were immediately able to figure out what items were stolen. it is latest in a string of break-ins in at pro athlete homes and the nba and nfl has warned players to take

precautions. >> he was on the field while this was happening. >> people know he's not there, right. but it is pretty brazen to go after some the most high-profile people in the country. we'll see you soon. we're putting private labels to the test. price checking ought of the items that you see. if you wonder how we're going, here is a sneak pe aekt the shopping trip. >> i'm here at the grocery store to find out where prices are better and where inflation is still really bad. since 2019, john deere has invested more than $2 billion in our american factories. today, we're nearly 30,000 u.s. employees strong.

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welcome back to "the exchange." there is a lot to unpack today in the world of groceries. less than 24 hours after federal and state judges blocked the merger, albertson's is backing out of the proposed $25 billion deal and suing kroger, accusing it of not following through. kroger is up about 1% and in the meantime, how food is faring. eggs are up 35%. sold up is up 3% and soda is up 1% and spices down 2.4%. and let's bring in brian

explain, we've talked about chips and the price of oeng things so so it is great to have you here. >> it is great to be here. >> and we have a couple of categories here. and chelsea went shopping in manhattan. so grain of salt audience and prepare for some real sticker shock. but you know that directionally what we're capturing is still what is going on with -- let's start with the cheerio's and the cereal. because this was shocking. the price of the box of cereal, was $9.99. okay, the store brand version was about half of the price. and i'm curious if you could kind of talk about what is happening with those prices across the country more broadly. >> yeah. sure. when we think about that price gap between the brands and store brands, the gap is still relatively wide. versus what it has been historically. and you've seen market share gains for store brands. especially in categories like

cereal, which are more family oriented. however, what we are beginning to see is actions that brands are taking to close those price gaps and some of it is promotional events and some of it tweaking package sizes. but there is a focus on trying to bring the value equation back together. but it is a slow process. >> so my parents were at the grocery store the other day and they said what is going on with the doritos. if you bought four bags, you got a crazy deal, but they have to buy four. are they trying to get rid of this spl bulk. >> this is trying to move inventory. over the last year we've observed consumers don't respond to the bulk purchase. maybe around a holiday period for fourth of july or holding a thanksgiving party, but those type of promotions which were very effective in the past, really aren't because it is the cash outlay for four bags of doritos. >> we talked about the average price of a bag of chips had gone

to $6.60. that is the reason you said to be weary of stocks like pepsi. they might have to cut prices. is that pressuring some of the consumer staples? >> i would say price cuts is not a great -- we haven't gotten to that. >> we're not there yet. >> exactly. but we're sharpening promotions and seeing in promotional periods more depth. i think when we go into next year, you're going to see a lot more of attention of price promotions around holiday periods. think about the super bowl, easter and summer holidays because there is a lot of volume that moves in that time frame and that is where the companies can move. >> before we move on, could you distill this, on the package side, the middle of the store, to what are your takes on the stocks? which ones do you like most right now? >> right now, within the beverage stocks, coke versus

pepsi. pepsi is still struggling to get the prices dialled in on the snacks. >> and what about the general mills. >> and peter and i talked about this, peter, my partner, right now it is -- you have to be very selective. so he loves mccormick. >> the spice maker. even with the price deflation. >> i think that is as you shop the perimeter, if you're able to buy chicken, it is a value add. you're adding something to the chicken to make it more -- add to taste. so that is sort of where he is right now. when we look at the center of the store stocks specifically, you know, still very -- not very positive on -- >> that makes me as a shopper feel good. that means they are passing on more price. wall street is getting nor cautious on the names because we've hit this point of resistance. eggs have gotten a lot of attention. prices is up 40% in the past

year but prior to that they had fallen in price and we had the big spike prior to that. could this tell us anything, price of eggs and dairy and these are kind of things like gasoline that people feel are inflationary. >> they're definitely kitchen table conversation and sentiment. people know the price of milk. i think what you're seeing in egg price and dairy prices is more function of the commodity market. so it is supply demand and eggs have had a wild ride and that a lot has been due to the avian flu, but i think that -- when we looking at where egg prices are today, they're far off the highs and the relative value to a box of cereal, it is -- >> it is still high. >> especially but -- >> i saw cheerios with protein. i said don't try to tell me

that. we have some big changes coming in the turn of the year. we have froot loops and other big offenders in the world of dyes and additives. so aside of the price, are you seeing consumer pushback on many items where we might see some regulatory changes to try to clean then -- clean them up. >> let's talk about the dyes. we used less bright and consumers didn't like it but if you look at the u.k. and canada, that transition mas been plead without really much impact. either on the company's or or consumers. i think there is going to be, there is certainly a greater focus on ingredients right now and that has to do probably more with rfk and his rhetoric. but it is maybe not a bad thing also. for consumers to kind of question a little bit. >> i agree. maybe we'll see more experimentation on the corporate

front. >> how many items did we buy. 17. our total bill, what is your guess? >> 185. >> no, brian. $92.55 and that is in mourn williams in manhattan. so if that is what it feels like, between $10 for cereal and coffee prices are up considerably. so $92 for these items. 12 months from now, what do you think that price basket will cost. >> i think that is probably 5% less. >> 5% less? >> i think we'll see some moderation in the commodity driven categories and there is a need to drive promotions to have them be plor effective. it is not a full price cut but you need the promotion. >> i shouldn't put you on the spot, but would a albertson's kroger merger help bring prices down or push them up or is it inconclusive. >> i think it is inconclusive.

but if you create efficiencies, so figure that gives them more margin flexibility could be reinvested. >> what is their margin, 4%. >> less than that. >> brian, you have all of the knowledge. thank you for joining us on this shopping check and thank you for coming in today. coming up, big moves in jet another food name today. come on, we're talking about cleaning up our diet. shares of krispy kreme are dropping offer aybersecurity incident affecting online orders which started on november 29th are reasonably likely to have a material impact on operations. shares of d nut are lower for the eighth straight session. down 11% over that time. we'll be right back of the exchange.

welcome back to "the exchange." bitcoin is back above 100,000

today and that is helping the rest of the crypto concept. all of the players are rising in today's session. my next guest ever guest heads one of the world top investment banks and said appetite for crypto will only grow in the coming year. for more on the trends, matthew mcdermott is with us. >> thank you very much for having me. >> the reason not to be -- the reason why i'm so curious about this is so we retail could front run all of the institutionals coming. it is one of the ways that i think turned the public on to crypto is when they realize the the institutions would get involved in a big way. so has that already happened or is there more still to come. >> i think there is still more to come. i've been running the digit allergy asset business for five years now at goldman and this is like the second cycle and the first kind of run now was very much retail driven and what we've seen over the following

two or three years is more regulation across the globe and as a biproduct of that it is given confidence in the institutions. >> what kind of regulatory clarity are you talking about. because people think well once we have this in the u.s., obviously it hasn't kept us from bitcoin 100 k, but could we see a lot of major multi-nationals putting bitcoin on their balance sheet. >> i think it is conceivable. and i think as we've started to see over the last year, year and a half, more clarity outside of the u.s. i think there has been a big spike in the valuations across the whole crypto suite since the u.s. presidential elections, that is driven by what we will expect to be a regulatory back drop and that gives confidence to the institutions. >> and what was your aha-moment where you felt like there is something here that is going to create value because people are

arguing that the u.s. should not enshrine this and it is a waste of the capital and counter-productive. >> and if you look today, at the options and etfs, clients from an institutional slant become more active. so for us, that has been, you know, i think the ation 245 was the real catalyst and the performance over the last nine, to ten months, and it is getting more momentum and that mix of retail and increasingly more institutions and if you look at the trading eco-system, you see more ducts evolve -- >> so going into 2025, what kind of products should we expect on that front? >> i think a continuum of what we've seen. i think the etf is a very good solid, i think, indicator of people's appetite for this space. as i said, it is grown this

year. it gets investor protections and so thereafter people are getting confidence and as you see other institutions come in, you expect to see it like other assets. >> so more derivatives. >> i think if you see the eco-system build out, you'll see demand for any other type of products as with any other type of asset class. >> i want to cap my risk and others are happy -- but does the nature of this, because so many retail players say and i know people who have made considerable amounts of money on this, i'm holding it forever and maybe they need to think about how to tap that, literally live off of it if they want to. >> i think the market place will evolve and leverage on your holdings. kind of purse ant to manifesting across the institution today and in a rational way i think it is

positive. there are a lot of -- out there who want to hold but, yeah, i think, the product suite will evolve and you'll see more institutions leverage that. >> and what is the significance of -- what is it meant to offer to clients? >> when we look at the digital asset business of goldman sachs, you have a crypto leg to the business and then a big focus on tokenizations, and you started to see momentum build across the institutional landscape. >> still don't understand that one. the idea that you could trade financial streets now. why do you need to tokenize it. >> it is the efficient of the market. the ability to settle -- >> instantaneously. >> and the ability to be more precise and the use of liquidity and capital and over time to proliferate products to the market. so the digital asset platform that we've had a announcement on, that is something that we've

been developing within goldman and as we look to develop and further enhance the abilities he look to have that measure out. >> thank you. coming up, gemini 2.0 and trump picks an inflation chair and that is propelling the nasdaq to another record high and above 20,000 for the first time. we've got more on today's big tech headlines next.

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shares of alphabet are hitting all-time highs after the company announced new updates to the a.i. model gemini. deirdre bosa has the news. busy week in a.i. >> between the gemini and the 12 days and the apple intelligence and chatgpt launch this morning, a new race has emerged in a.i. over applications and distribution. this demo part of google's announcement this morning gives us an idea or a hint of what we might expect in 2025 from -- from a gentic a.i. including smart glasses.

>> if i go back to camden. could you check if there is any supermarkets on the way. >> there is a more isson's on -- street. >> it would reason and can remember. now as a model, they become commoditized and advancements may be losing momentum. take a look at the deep dive. what this means for software shift. now a battle emerging in this new era is over licensing agreements of the previous era, the information reporting that google has asked the ftc to break up microsoft's cloud deal with open a.i. and interesting development, as the department of justice going after google, it has ways that could hurt it and hat trip to our producer who put it this way, my enemy to my enemy is my regulatory frenemy. these will be interesting.

>> also big news on cruise. >> yes. i know you would be watching this. cruise essentially getting out of the robo taxi race. nearly a decade after starting work on this $10 billion, just shutting it down. which, it gives the kind the current dominant player, waymo, more reason to believe that this could be a winner takes all or winner take most market. tesla is the other name being floated around and people very excited about their developments or advancements in fsd. but cruise has been a big player and it is not the first one to get out of this very difficult race after spending huge amounts of money and time. remember, uber, its former ceo travis said that it was existential for the company to figure out robo taxis. it left as well. and that might also explain why kyle vote, who was the leading cruise of the company before this led to the shut down, in case it was unclear before, it

is clear now, gm are a bunch of dummies. so robo taxis, unless it is a strong reaction, some think it is a future or you need to be in here or you'll be killed. >> i would love to check in with him. the shares for tesla up 4% for gm are down 1% today. deirdre bosa, thank you. last night president-elect trump announced that ftc commissioner andrew ferguson is his pick to replace lena khan as chair. he's less hawkish except when it comes to social media companies. here to discuss that space and who could wind up as a target is paul meeks. paul, it is great to have you. and i believe it might have been another appointment over with an anti-big tech bent. how serious of a threat is that do you? >> well, when ferguson comes in,

now first of all, he's in for all intents and purposes. he does not need to be confirmed by the senate. i think he'll come aggressively after meta and some of the other social media companies that have at least in his mind in trump's mind a reported bias against conservatives in social media. so i expect that. and this will be no friend of mark zuckerberg. it will be interesting to see how it plays out. google will be in the mix. but i think overall on a regulatory front, because google has been getting it from all quarters, here and abroad in europe, i think actually they might see net-net, a little bit of regulatory relief. >> investors in meta have excitement about llama, the open source a.i., a main building block of the next wave of a.i. are they to react with

trepidation or a shrug. >> i think it is just a shrug. the thing that is most important for meta is -- and i think it is probably fighting yesterday's battle, is this whole issue about bias in the social media space. as far as promoting all of these technologies and including a.i., very much like meta's open model. i don't think whether it is through organic growth or through any potential mermers and acquisitions that things will slow much. they might accelerate under the trump administration. >> paul in the remaining moments we have, let's talk very tactically for 2025. where are the best opportunities? >> so i actually think, i'm a bit contrarian on this, that we'll have another very good year for the a.i. infrastructure builders. and that is primarily the semiconductor names, maybe some data service companies, but

where i differ a little bit, is i don't think we've seen enough use case yet or a monetization to shift from a.i. infrastructure to a.i. prord companies which are mostly software companies. i don't think we'll have much evidence of that in '25. so ike sticking with the same old, same old, 24 goes into 25. >> doesn't that often work out so well in the long run. and paul, thanks for your time. appreciate it today. >> best wishes. >> paul meeks. and that is itor u fs. tyler is busy getting ready for "power lunch." i'll join him on the other side of this break. i'll see you then. [cheerful music] [phone ringing] not all multimillionaires build their wealth the same way, you have... the fearless investor. the type a cpa. the boot strapper. the boot maker. hee-ha. but many do have something in common. we all trust schwab with our wealth.

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you're the man! i wish. the future isn't scary. not investing in it is. nasdaq-100 innovators. one etf. before investing, carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com good afternoon, everybody. welcome to "power lunch." joining us for the hour is ron krufshefski. >> a big indiana. going to south bend. >> we will whip the golden domers. last read on inflation. it came in within expectation range up t