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results and broadcom reporting after the bell amid reports 's working with apple. costco also reporting this afternoon, and always interesting to hear what people are buying in bulk at costco. why the retail players who i was familiar with back in the 90s are still capitalizing on that. >> yeah, seems like the malls are making a mini comeback. i always like going there. i like the idea of being able to see and touch and feel the merch. >> yeah, the pandas, remember those, and that was $15 well spent. scott boris, many fans don't

like him but there's no denning the work he does is getting huge dollars for his clients. there's probably no more efficient agent in the business. >> there's a press conference today? >> yeah, and they will introduce juan soto as if he needs introduction in the new york market, which he does not. president-elect trump rang the bell as he was named "time's" person of the year. i think you are the leading authority in going up and going down, but you always end up. he always ends up. that's he good news. we have doug over here, and he's

been on your show many times, and we have tremendous people. long-term, this is going to be an incredible country, and we had the three best years ever until covid, and the markets were highest previous to covid coming in when we handed it over. >> well, the markets have jumped since president-elect trump was elected again a little more than a month ago, and now s&p 500 up about 5% during that time, and the nasdaq up to highs across the board. let's bring in kevin nicholson. kevin, welcome and good to have you with us. >> thanks for having me. >> we will bring chris in the conversation as well. in the market, we will see if it's what president-elect trump said, do you see 2025 as

potentially a year with lower returns than we have become accustomed to over the past couple of years in part because some of the returns have been pulled forward in 2024? >> i definitely think that's the case. in the last couple of years we have had robust markets. going into next year our base case is that the s&p will be up somewhere between 4.5 and 6%. and that will take you somewhere close depending on where we end the year between 6350 and 6500. >> so chris, let me get your reaction to that. i think you are singing from the same hymnal here. >> i may be a touch more conservative than kevin. i think, both, kevin and i -- i looked at kevin's notes, and we are both forecasting 15% earnings growth for the

consensus here, and that's high considering the record margins. kevin, what do you think about the economy next year? i mean, 15% is about as good as it gets. what is the down side from that kind of projection, especially when we are about 25% times earnings on the s&p? >> i think it's guided ahead of itself because people are pricing in deregulation of markets next year as well as the potential new corporate tax cuts. while all of that is good, the part that could potentially hurt us is that tariffs will be the deciding factor of how good corporate earnings are next year, and if tariffs are too high and generate inflation, that could be the downside that

we see in the economy and start seeing -- start seeing a pullback in financial markets as well. >> chris, run us through in the portfolio what are the 5,10 or 12 major positions you are holding into next year? >> well, as i mentioned, i am pretty conservative on the market here so we are trying desperately to find the market, and health care, we're almost doubly weighted in health care. >> wow. >> yeah. so it's doing us no good at all. >> exactly. that's why i say -- >> but if we don't have 15% earnings growth or if the market is not up 30% next year like it has been the last couple of years, health care should be a decent performer and outperformer in that kind of market. >> what gives you the confidence to be conservative, and this could be a year we are chasing things down? >> yeah, i will underperform in

a year like that if we have another way-above average year. what i am planning on, i am okay underperforming in a strong up market and i don't want to lose my clients money if we revert to the normal, 16 to 18% earnings and that's a downturn from here and that's the mind-set i am having here. >> kevin, walk us through what you are doing in your portfolios, both fixed income and equity, what kind of moves you have been making in the last few days? >> well, we have been trying to position a little bit and get more cyclicality in the portfolio, and we bought financials and added industrials to the portfolios and also added a little bit of small caps. i say a little bit. we have dipped our toe into the market because we know the rotation from growth to value may not occur right away. we have to see where policy goes

in 2025, and that is where the fiscal policy goes. that will determine whether or not that rotation will happen. in our shorter time for horizon portfolios we have been more focussed on -- these the balanced portfolios, and we have been focused more about generating income and we are doing that by starting to think about ways that we can rotate into the fixed income markets. from a fixed income point, we think yields will move higher into next year, so we have been focused more on the short end of the curve basically in that three to five-year range, but at this point you are not getting paid to extend out -- >> explain the thinking there. yields are going to be moving higher in an environment where most people, and i believe including you, think the fed is going to continue to cut interest rates, and you would think that would reduce you?

>> it will reduce rates on the front end but i think we will have a bifurcated market where the long end will actually go higher, and with that -- that's the reason we have been hanging out on the front end and as rates go higher we will look to fill in the belly of the curve, that ten-year part of the yield curve. just to be clear from a fed standpoint, while we think the fed is going to lower rates, we do think that they are going to be slower to lower, and so when we think about 2025, we think they will be at 3 7/8th. >> i think we will get a low sloped yield curve.

>> chris and kevin, thank you. coming up, nvidia has been the darling of the chip sector and the whole market, really. could rival broadcom be close to stealing its thunder. broadcom scored key contracts with ai and reportedly apple for stizedhicuom cps we will dive into that more when "power lunch" returns. to go further, you need to be ready for what's down the road. as energy demand continues to rise, we're harnessing breakthrough innovations to increase production in the u.s. gulf of mexico. our latest deepwater development, anchor, produces previously inaccessible oil and natural gas, allowing us to deliver the energy we all need today

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welcome back to "power lunch." adobe is the worst performing stock today after its results key concerns around its ai offer offerings and ability to monetize them, and where is their place going to be as the ai tools continue to explode? >> we have heard from two major software giants today, oracle and today adobe. both of their guidances failed to live up to expectations and

if we click on adobe, the street was expecting more from the management of how they are monetizing their ai tools and adobe announced their tools to help users and it's something they are hoping will lead on the ai front. we did not get that monetization strategy on the call last night. if i look at what ubs said, they said adobe is pushing the ai narrative and we still see no evidence of that. the second issue is pricing and they did not figure they could raise prices on all of his customers, and they are lowering the price target on shares of adobe. we have seen a huge rally on software stocks since the prospect of deregulation and more m&a and the stocks that had

been benefiting are the stocks able to articulate how they are monetizing ai, and salesforce has been a huge winner in that space, so as docusign. >> chris, your thoughts on adobe? >> this is a great example of what we were just talking about with kevin, high expectations and adobe, almost record high for adobe and the reports were a little soft but not that bad, and maybe it was less than a percent, but it doesn't quite make it and the stock is down 10%. this, to me, is more of a poster boy of high expectations for the whole ai group than it is a particular adobe specific issue. >> may i pick a bone with that? >> yes. >> which is just -- if i were thinking about the risks in the s&p 500, i would say is adobe just losing shares to those already in the s&p or come into the s&p, is it more of a case,

look, tools, fundamentally the kind of tools ai is replacing so is that more adobe specific? >> i think you are pointing out a real risk, so if you have 100% market share you can only get worse, and that's where adobe is now. having said that, i didn't see any evidence of what you are talking about in this particular earnings report. i saw revenue that went up 9% instead of 10.5. i would wait to make a judgment on this. >> that's fair. >> let's pivot another big name, and it's broadcom. it's low right now and the report comes as people wonder if it could be a threat in ai chips to the biggie? >> some of the hyper scalers that nvidia counts on as customers try to build their own in-house chips, and that's where broadcom is playing a bigger role. they have contracts with oep pe ai, and meta, and some expected

to be released in 2026. analysts say higher prices remaining a sticking point for companies that buy nvidia's chip, and however as we know it's not easy. nvidia has the first mover advantage and plus what wall street sees as the best group of engineers to keep innovating and delivering faster and powerful trips like blackwell and beyond that. tonight when broadcom reports the earnings, they will provide a much-needed update and the progress in silicon valley. >> we had ron on yesterday and we were talking about this point that you made in your report there, chris, and that that there's nvidia sitting out there, the big dog in the space, with very expensive chips that can basically do everything. >> right. >> broadcom may be able to come

in with less expensive ships that do something that is very tailored and specific to the need of a broad sector of the market like financials. that was ron's argument for broadcom yesterday? >> do you see it that way? >> i see it somewhat differently, tyler, and it's like pepsi versus coke and these two ompeting, and broadcom is happily named, it's the fox that does many things all at once, and there's much -- they have lots and lots of semiconductor offerings and they are terrific clients, and apple being the perfect example. i think there's room for both to win here. again, i don't see evidence that they are taking lunch away from nvidia yet. there's interesting headlines, but, again, i think nvidia's numbers show just terrific

depth. >> yeah, it's interesting, seema, some of the discussion is shifting to whether we need the massive ai datacenter clusters doing pretraining of all of the llms or now if we are shifting and there's lingo i will not use correctly, but there's inferencing, and that might point away from getting away from the 100 chips, and to chris's point, this is almost a $900 billion market cap, and if that is a winner here, some may be priced in already as well. >> yeah, there's two parts of the model. as more companies push towards using the ai applications, that's where the opportunity could potentially be because there's others in the private world and where broadcom and some of the hyper scalers hope to play a bigger role because that's where the market is shifting. >> yeah, and i'm not saying it's a bear case for nvidia, but the

shares have stalled out over the last six months. >> they have. >> it's something to watch next year. >> you wouldn't hold, would you? >> no, too expensive for us. and also, sooner or later, like adobe, they will miss a revenue number and there's no room for error. >> well said. baseball star juan soto is moments away from being part of the new york mets after agreeing to a million-dollar contract this week. coming up, we will talk to the super agent that brokered the deal, and he will join us next from citi field. th'sft t bakat aerhere. car, this isn't the way home. that's right james, it isn't. car, where are we going? we're here. (♪♪) surprise!!! the future isn't scary. not investing in it is.

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welcome back to "power lunch." in minutes from now juan soto will formerly be introduced as a new york met at citi field. he agreed to a million-dollar contract with the mets. we are joined by the agent that got the deal done. super agent boras.

>> thank you so much. we are all quite honored by it. >> let me ask you this. there was another deal on the table from the cross town rivals of the new york yankees. what was it that caused juan soto to choose the mets over the yankees because the difference in face value of the deal as reported was only something like $5 million or there abouts over a period of 10 to 15 years so i can't imagine it was only the money. what was it? >> i think the perfection here is really kind of misstated. this is about multiple teams and the totality of one's decision involved far more than one other team in new york. i think juan has great respect

for the yankees. they are a tremendous organization. in every way, they did everything to illustrate to juan in this process, as did other teams that they really coveted who he was as a player and what he meant to a franchise current and long-term. this decision was not about one other team, it was about multiple teams for juan and his family to sit down and make a decision over them. >> so quite right. we hear reported toronto, los angeles, boston were among the other teams, but i am having a hard time figuring out what you are trying to say here that it had to do with other teams and in what sense? >> i think when you are an athlete -- when you are an athlete, you think about all teams and you think about your routine and performance and family in addition to the

economics. juan soto's performance levels at citi field are well-known to him and he plays at the highest level, and there's a baseball team of ops, and he plays at the highest levels of performance and players think about execution and ownership and winning not only in the can't but the long-term because the deal is so long. you think about the impact on your family. you think about all of these factors. when you are given the privilege of having so many teams offer you opportunities that are, as it turned out, were in a range of record-setting contracts, you look at the internal aspect of that where you say i have to execute, i want to win, i want to know my ownership, what does my family feel about it. >> that's interesting.

very interesting. i think we just learned something and you are famous for this, packaging statistics and analytics to make a case and you just said one of the decision points was how he performs at citi field. jump in. >> i am curious, you speak to executives and owners around the league. is there a sense that you feel of a growing discontent among some of the owners and executive from a parody standpoint that these deals are out of whack, and we have the cba coming up in 2026, and do you sense there is motion for trying to push for a lockout and a salary cap? >> no, and i will tell you why. we have experienced this many, many times in the traditions of baseball. these teams are well studied. they are very well-versed.

when there's something of value in the marketplace that you have a rare opportunity to acquire where we have an element in the sport called surplus value where there never has been a player who has had a surplus value that exceeds well over a billion dollars, and each team knew this asset and benefit to a franchise was something that was not going to be available for years to come, and there's a rarity to this. i call juan a centuryian. this is really about good business decisions, and can you see that from the fact that when we started there were close to half the league was -- wanted to participate in had and we

reduced that, and in the ends we had difficulty reducing the numbers because so many teams were seeking this rare value because in the end it was just good business -- >> let me bring in chris with a question. >> looking at it from a market perspective, you and your client basically just climbed mount everest, the mount everest of professional sports, and you have bitcoin hitting 1,000, and do you think you will plant your flag and the record will stay there for years, or do you think we are on the way to more contracts like this? >> great question. i think we have historical models that give us an example of this. i remember when i did alex rodriguez' contract back in 2000. his 252 number exceeded all

sports by far, a doubling. everybody asks the same questions. you can view it as ownership saying there's rarity in every business, there's rarity certainly in sport. this certainly creates an umbrella. as to how those aspire to really climb to the shade that that umbrella provides, it was a very slow process, and in a rod's case, he, himself, after seven years when i did the contract with the yankees the second time, only he ellipsed the mark he had made and i think it was well over a decade before somebody came to those levels? the rarity of skill really make these things something. >> one fference i see between a-rod and today and more issues of the day to come, is the region of the sports model is

crumbling and that's going to disrupt a bunch of things, and do you feel they may have a downward pressure on some of these salaries? >> you know, alex, when you are the product and the product is coveted and there's demand for the product as there is in sport, it's the ultimate mystery. the production costs are -- it's so minimal. the reality of it is how it's distributed and the costs or value of it in negotiation is something that is the issue. it's not the value of the content or the product, so sport is very stable and it's recession proof. we watch it. we demand it. we have a historical equivalent for it here. the product is not in any way in

question, it's merely how we create a value structure and a process to determine its distribution and how the owners, the union and everybody involved in the sport really create methods to optimize how they take the product and the content and market it. that, i think, will answer all questions because we know historically that this is a coveted medium and it's an exciting medium and for those of us that spent our life in the game, we see promise and we see extraordinary talent and we see the true mystery of the game be holding to audiences that really covet to watch it. >> scott boras, thank you for your time. nobody understands baseball than you. >> thank you for that compliment.

>> you are very welcome. 2025 should be an exciting and challenging time for wall street, and economic uncertainty and a new administration in washington. could it cause turmoil in the market? we will exorple that in "market navigator," next.

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lunch." i am kate rooney with the cnbc news update. agreeing to reform the police department in the wake of the investigation of the shooting death of taylor. the consent decree still does need to be approved by a judge. meanwhile a missouri man found in syria told nbc news today he spent months after cross into the country in a pilgrimages to damascus. he went missing in may and reappearing in syria. buzzfeed announced today

it's selling "first we feast," where celebrities try to answer in depth questions while eating hotter and hotter chicken wings. it's value guys is $82.5 million. back over to you. >> i always thought tyler would be the perfect guest on that show. >> it's not too late. >> we should re-create it here. i could never do it. i would last eight seconds. kate, thank you very much. we appreciate it. let's move along to market navigator today after we saw rates back up on the ppi number. with markets trading at high valuations, is it time to get back to basics? our next guest will tell us how to navigate that space and which specific names he's eyeing. here's a peek. matt, i didn't realize that

costco paid a dividend. welcome. >> thanks for having me on. they do, just barely but they do pay a dividend. >> to your point, a lot of people look to the dividend stocks and at the higher yielding ones, and we have to have a conversation about the safety of those. >> we invest in a lot of different assets and strategies, and our core is core growth, and rate cuts, cash on the sidelines and market rotation and broadening, we think the feds' continuing easing should have dividends, and growth stocks have outperformed from the onset of cutting cycles, and that's over 7% compared to 4% of the s&p 500. you can talk this a couple

different ways. assets and money market funds have continued to tpwroe grow o year, and we see a possible shift to the dividend equity side, a relatively conservative way to gain exposure, and rotation. mega caps have been the talk for two years and we are not moving away from this area, but there's a slow growth in earnings. >> for example, costco is a great example. where does valuation come into your program there? costco is already up 50% this year and it's trading at, i don't know, 70 times this year, and 50 plus times next year, and why doesn't that stay your hand? >> so that's a good question. normally we are looking at a 2% yield on a stock and valuation comes into play, and costco is unique in this and the reason i pulled that, it's timely, and

they reported earnings at the close today for one, and it's one of the dividend growth names that we follow, kroger, which is hitting all the headlines. they tried the acquisition of albertson's and it fell through, and they made clear it was to scale to costco, and walmart still dominates the narrative. they report sales monthly and we are looking at that as part of this, and we think they are accurately priced but a great long-term holding, and if they miss today i would consider buying on a pullback, and that's mainly because of the concern the valuation. >> thank you for explaining that. we were both scratching our heads. higher yields in ups around 5% as well. matt, we will leave it there. check back soon. thank you for your time today. >> thank you. >> chris, when you hear dividend investing, what does that mean to you? it's not just about capturing

the income, which a lot of people reinvest, but it's about the financial -- >> yeah, it's a high quality company where they increase the dividend consistently, and it's not just today but the future, too. my question for matt is what would make you not buy it, 100 times earnings or 150 times earning? getting back to the beginning of the show -- >> yeah, he's looking for more of a pullback, a 1% pullback at this point is usually all we get. tyler, back over to you. gen z to the rescue. many of america's shopping malls are struggling to keep their doors open as e-commerce grows and now they are finding younger shoppers crave the big mortar

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welcome back to "power lunch," everybody. if you are heading to the mall for any holiday shopping, you may notice a lot of teenagers. despite being raised in the internet age, gen z apparently lovers the mall. and melissa joins us in the future of malls. >> as 20-somethings look for ways to post something on social media, he they they head to the. according to a survey by the international council of shopping centers, nearly 63% of gen zers plan to make purchases at stores. here's why one said she was

shopping at the mall. >> it's actually more convenient for me to go to the store and try it on and if it doesn't fit i can return it there instead of going to ups to sends something back and wait another five to seven days. >> abercrombie & fitch, they have autograph signers at its stores, and specifically with gen z in mind, and there's a marketing campaign with ad spots running on youtube and netflix. those companies have competition. some of gen z's favorite brands are outside of the mall. half of the gen z shoppers say they frequently shop at t.j. maxx and walmart and at thrift and dollar stores, so not just the mall but other places, too. >> even the brands, chris, and these are the same companies and if you watch the stocks,

abercrombie, it's making a comeback. >> i think it's because these gen zers aren't old enough to realize how bad malls were back then, and we were so happy to get the internet so we didn't have to go to malls. >> they are different now, a little more safe. i love how she said you can just go and return it the same day. >> costco reports tonight, melissa, while we have you, we are talking about the valuation, and what are the expectations for the comps. do you have those off hand? >> no, there's kind of three things i would say that i will be listening for. one is, of course, any early holiday insights and that's going to be a key interest for investors. the second thing is this is the second quarter since costco raised the membership fee, and will s was seven years ago wheny did the same membership hike so it's a notable change. lastot least, because the

stock price is so high, every little change they make gets a lot of scrutiny and they made certain changeings to the row rotisserie -- >> the bag? >> they switched it, and some said it was dripping and not the same, and there are additional membership card checks, it could turn off shoppers, and the other unique factor is a year ago when they started selling gold bars online for the first time. those were very popular and selling out sometimes within hours. so that makes for trickier comparisons this year, too. >> some say the membership crackdown could have a netflix type -- >> were they checking at the door? >> yeah, they were trying to keep people from sharing the membership cards.

>> you have to match your picture. >> a lot of pele werfree riding. i did a delivery this morning, and watching the prices because it keeps creeping up. in any case, as we were talking about, the valuation, it's a higher bar but it's a bar they keep. >> the adobe expectations, they are just so high and even if they meet them, it's an embarrassment of riches but it has been a great stock. >> one of the great companies, the pioneer of the am azon mode. the ten-year ticking higher on the reading of wholesale inflation, and we will look to san the read on the bond market, next. ♪♪ well would you look at that? jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it.

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in chicago for more on this. good afternoon. >> good afternoon, indeed. the fed has its thumb on the short maturities with the overnight movement and the long-dated maturities are market driven even though they have things like qe, and when we talk about the inflation it goes to the end and the longer mature tease. look at ppi with food, energy and trade. realize in november of last year it hit its cycle low after the highs that were made at 7.1% in 2022, and it came down to 2.5 a year ago. what was it today, 3.5. 100 basis points higher. we use the term sticky sometimes, and that's not sticky but getting hotter, and how did it affect the markets? well, depends on the maturity. here's 2s, 10s and 30s.

the twos have been lazy, and the tens and 30s more aggressive. tens and 30s every day since friday, and it's on the yield. that speaks volumes about what kelly just said. the fed, it's baked in the cake. nobody will be able to talk the markets out of that because it's already in the hopper, but it's showing up in the markets as well, and ultimately whether it's going to be the inflation or lack of weakness and the fast fashion in the labor market, the long durations will keep the fed honest as they continue to be firm. back to you. >> thank you very much. be sure and listen to the "power lunch" podcast wherever you go. it's available wherever you get your podcast. we'll be right back with "final

thoughts."

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nothing runs like a deere™. let's get final thoughts from our guest. you know, chris, when you said let's look at a stock like hershey, and little did we know how much of a bottle ground this name would come, and there was an offer they rejected. what is your thinking about it on now? >> i think it's a classic example of how if the public markets reject a stock and keep the price low a private buyer can come in and value those assets, so that's a classic value situation. now that the stock is back down almost to where the rumors started, and i see no down side here in the sense that maybe something happens and you make money right away or maybe they fix it and it takes a couple

years and you get paid a decent safe dividend while you wait and while hershey is at its lowest multiple -- >> doesn't it have a complicated management structure? >> yes, and some folks say a takeover is impossible. i don't think that's the case. they are really suffering now. i think a buyer can come in and say, hey, there's a decent claim that we are worth more for the trust than the current management and the current business plan. that may get reception ironically because it's not doing so well. >> well, that's good, which is to say, i don't think the market is currently value waiting everything. >> yeah, and a concept stock would another thing, and they are going through the roof right now in some cases. what i want to point out to your viewers, the trump administration, they have not taken over and increased oil production, et cetera, et cetera, and they have to deal

with tariffs and maybe deportable low-cost workers, and those are real issues, and every incoming administration gets this halo. >> this is the honeymoon. >> yeah, be wary with the stock be wary with the stock market going up on the incoming administration. >> it gets harder from here. thank you all for watching "power lunch." "closing bell" starts right now. >> thanks so much. this make or break hour begins with optimism about stocks. president-elect trump delivers this message to investors here earlier today. >> you will see very good days ahead. a lot of incentives will be given. you saw yesterday, a billion dollar investment. a fast approval.